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The Glenn Beck Program
Best of the Program | Guests: Alan Dershowitz & David Barton | 7/23/25
00:45:04
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- [00:01]
Glenn Beck
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Stu Burguiere
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- [00:13]
Glenn Beck
More deliveries.
- [00:14]
David Barton
Hi. I have tacos for two.
- [00:16]
Glenn Beck
Oh, thanks. We'll be right down. And more memories, babe.
- [00:19]
David Barton
Come down. I have a surprise.
- [00:22]
Glenn Beck
All new Blink video doorbell with two year battery, head to toe, HD view and simple setup. Shop now at Amazon.com blink for just $69.99.
- [00:30]
David Barton
Hey, on the podcast how one document that Tulsi Gabbard released today, right before we recorded the podcast links everything. The raid on Mar a Lago to the fake steel dossier and Obama and Hillary's connections plus Hillary's health. All of it is exposed. And you can see the documents now@glenn beck.com and understand it by listening today's podcast tonight. I'm also doing a chalkboard special on tying us all together so you can really understand it. And also Alan Dershowitz on Epstein and David Barton on the Ten Commandments and why they matter. Everyone talks about the importance of keeping moving, staying active, stay busy, stay engaged. Good advice until your body decides, you know, to file a formal complaint. It's hard to keep moving when your knees, your back, your shoulders are all sending you the same message.
- [01:19]
Alan Dershowitz
Yeah.
- [01:19]
David Barton
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- [03:11]
Podcast Announcer
You're listening to the Best of the Glenn Beck Program.
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David Barton
I received a what's called embargoed document early this morning, and it was embargoed until about two hours ago. And so we've spent the last two hours trying to go through it and understand what it says. And it's from Tulsi Gabbard and it is explosive document. And you're going to understand how, how important this document is in just a minute. And I'm going to show you tonight on chalkboard. I'll lay all of this out on a chalkboard tonight because it's hard to follow just by talking about it.
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Podcast Announcer
Yeah, it's going to be, it would be helpful to have the chalkboard. And by the way, if you can also get the exact documents online. GlennBeck.com right now. So before you go on to the new information, I'm trying to see if I traced this back correctly. So before the election, Trump is. There are these accusations against Trump which are in the Steele dossier that everyone has inside the government. And they have already said there's nothing here. Right. These are discredited. They then have a very surprise election result. So they were not planning on necessarily using this. They didn't think they had to.
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David Barton
Yes.
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Podcast Announcer
But then they lose the election. And now afterward, they are trying to think about how to thwart Donald Trump as he becomes president, get him out.
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David Barton
Of office or at least just shut him down.
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Podcast Announcer
Shut him down. They are planning on releasing a PDB to the president, which would be on record to everybody, including Trump and Flynn.
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David Barton
Yes.
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Podcast Announcer
That says nothing there. With the Russians, there's nothing there.
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David Barton
Electronically.
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Podcast Announcer
Electronically. Nothing there. And they then are. Before that comes out, Obama or Obama? It was Obama.
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David Barton
No, it was Obama. It's on record.
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Podcast Announcer
We have a document that he said, look, let's delay. Let's have a meeting first. Don't put that in writing. They have some meeting. They decide in that meeting that they are going to present this instead as actually the Russians are trying to help Trump. And the evidence for this is the Steele dossier.
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David Barton
Correct. Which they all knew had been discredited or it would have been released earlier.
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Podcast Announcer
CIA and FBI have problems with this. They express those issues in writing and say, hey, this is, what new information? What new information do we have in writing? Brennan says, we don't have any new information. We're moving forward anyway. This is what the President wants.
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David Barton
Correct.
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Podcast Announcer
That new briefing finds its way into the New York Times the next day. Right. From quote, unquote, intelligence sources, probably. Brennan lays the groundwork for everything that happens after.
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David Barton
Correct. Okay.
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Podcast Announcer
Okay.
- [06:16]
David Barton
So now Obama says yesterday that, you know, there's nothing here. There's nothing new. Apples and oranges, you're comparing different things. Okay, well, that all falls apart when you see what they didn't put in. Remember, what they did was they said Russia was in the bag for Donald Trump and he's going to be a puppet because they have so much dirt on him as found in the Steele dossier. Okay. But here's what we did have. And this is the released memo. You have to read just for history. You have to just look at it. Because there's probably only 25 people in the world that had seen this document, okay, before today. Before today, that this document, there are only five paper copies. It is so top secret that it was not allowed to be put on any kind of digital format. And it was all kept in the highest level safe. Okay? Donald Trump saw it at the end of his administration. This is the document that he said, I want that released. And. And then they didn't release it. Remember, on his last day, he's like, I want this declassify. I declassify it and I want it released. And then after he left office, they didn't declassify it and they didn't release it. And it is also most likely the document that they were looking for when they went to Mar A Lago, because that Mar A Lago raid made no sense. Made no sense. This happens all the time. Every president, as you saw with Joe Biden, what, three days later, he had stuff in his garage that was top secret. They were looking for something in particular. And what they were looking for is this document. This document now is@glenn beck.com released two hours ago. The. This is the highest level of top secret we have. So what's in the document? The document details svr, which is the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service, and the reports from 2016 from Russia about the hacking of the DNC. Remember, they were hacked and nobody could figure out who hacked them. And there was never anything about. And everybody was like, what? That's no big deal. No big deal? Why was that no big deal? Do you remember that? And nobody seemed to care about it. It was like, really no big deal? Well, in this report it shows it was a very big deal because out of that hacking the Russian Foreign Service, at least this is the information they got from intel on the Russian Foreign Service that they had the intel now that Obama and the Democratic leaders were, and I'm quoting, extraordinarily alarmed about Clinton's health, calling it a potential serious negative impact on her chances. Type 2 diabetes, ischemic heart disease, deep vein thrombosis and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Plus, listen to this, I'm quoting intensified psycho emotional problems, uncontrolled fits of anger, aggression and cheerfulness. That last one, I mean, I would have said this is, has no credibility at all. I've never seen her cheerful. She was also, according to the intelligence that they got from the Russians based on the DNC hacks, she was allegedly also on heavy tranquilizers every day, obsessed with power and afraid of losing. Russia also knew about the alleged secret meetings where Clinton allegedly offered State Department favors to religious groups for campaign support, ethical standards. Ethical scandals galore, including pressure on the FBI over her email probe via high ranking DOJ official. Russia had all of this, all of this. And then we had the Steele dossier from a discredited FBI source that said Russia has pictures of him giving golden showers. Now they are saying the Steele dossier, which they had already discredited, Obama says go back. They said, we have no new information. Go back and use this and show that Russia was trying to get Trump to win. He was trying to help Hillary Clinton lose because he had all this dirt on Hillary Clinton, on Donald Trump, so he could be a puppet. But the facts show the exact opposite. Now, does this sound familiar? This is what the left always does. Whatever they're accusing us of doing, they're doing. The Russians actually had all the dirt from the DNC hacking, or at least we believed they had it from this official Russian report that they had all the dirt on Hillary Clinton. Now, if Putin was really trying to win, why wouldn't he drop these nukes? Why wouldn't he have pushed these things out? Instead, they seek milder stuff and, and they are trying to undermine democracy overall. They're trying to split us. They're not electing Trump. They're trying to divide us. They don't. They think Hillary Clinton is going to win and they think that this is going to be good for them because they have all of this stuff. They're also, according to sources, they're also kind of afraid of her because she seems unstable. Okay, so what does Obama do? He says that Russian action showed they have clear preference for Trump, but they admit all of the reports from Putin's advisors warning a Trump win could mean a Republican Congress hostile to Russia. Remember, we said Donald Trump is more, he's stronger on Russia than any president has been since maybe Reagan. What are you talking about? He likes Russia. He's really strong against Russia. And compared to anybody else. Remember, Hillary Clinton was like, I'm going to do a reset. The Steele dossier is then shoehorning, being shoehorned into this document as additional reporting on Putin's intentions. Despite the CIA vets who are going into Brennan's office on the record, we have documents proving that they went to and said, you can't do this. This is, this is DNC opposition research. Unverifiable hearsay, fabricated claims, regurgitated media stories. You can't do this. Steele has been fired from the FBI because he was lying to the FBI. And you can't, you're going to, you're going to misrepresent it as legitimate intel from an FBI source with a layered network and admit all bias, all the payments, all of the subsources that are unknown and unvetted. And we are going to also not include the stuff that we know they have from the DNC hack about Hillary Clinton. Brennan's response to his team is, yeah, but on Donald Trump, doesn't that ring true? That's not facts. That's an opinion. That's advocacy. Doesn't that ring true? That's not the way. And they point this out. That's not the way. That's a violation of how we do intel. So Obama orders the new guidance, limited coordination, no broad peer review at all, and to publish before Trump takes office. This is a coup. This is a lie. This was all manufactured. Now, Obama denies all of it, but today only five copies existed only in paper, and they were all in the most confidential safe of the United States government and released two hours ago that show all of this. So why hide the part about Clinton if you were actually doing something? You could say, we have this from the Steele dossier, but we also have this that we know Russia has on Hillary Clinton, but they don't do that instead, they say Trump's a Russia puppet and completely leave out that what they're really wanting is the to be the puppeteer of Hillary Clinton. It's all released today. You tell me, does this matter? Does the president, the former President of the United States instructing the CIA to change course, to allow them and encourage them to leave out really important facts, use something that had already been discredited and then within a few hours before any of this had been done, start a whisper campaign and leak to the New York Times that CIA officials are now looking into some pretty serious charges about Donald Trump. This was planned and coordinated and it goes all the way to Mar a Lago because this is the document they thought he might have. They had to get rid of this document. They did not want him to release this document. But don't worry, if we get it out of his hands, which he didn't have, if we get it out of his hands, well, we'll put him in jail so he'll never be able to tell this story anyway. And dnc, dn, dni, Tulsi Gabbard comes out today and releases this document. It's all@glenn beck.com and we'll have the full chalkboard on this tonight at 9:00 clock only on Blaze TV. You know, back in the old days, we didn't do the whole non lethal thing when it came to protecting yourself and property. Some two bit snake comes along, rustles your cattle, you shoot them in the head. Some whippersnapper starts to pick a fight in a saloon, you shoot him dead. Some greenhorn cowboy steals your spurs, you shoot him dead. Sometimes I wish I lived in the old west. Although I don't know I would have lived very long. Simpler time, mess around, find out. These days we're a little more civilized. And if you live in one of the really, really more civilized states like California and you can't carry a gun, you should carry a burner launcher. It's a non lethal self defense tool that fires high velocity pepper rounds enough to stop an attacker in their tracks without crossing that line into deadly force. And for everyday carry, they have now a compact launcher. It is really effective, easier to handle and small enough to fit in your life without weighing you down. No permits legal in all 50 states. Looks like a firearm, works like a firearm, but gives you options. It's Burna.com get yours today. Use their retail store locator to find the nearest location offering live demonstrations including select sportsman's warehouse stores, Burner retail stores, Burna.com now back to the podcast. This is the best of the Glenn Beck program. And don't forget, rate us on itunes. David, welcome.
- [18:33]
Alan Dershowitz
Hey, Glenn. Good to be with you.
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David Barton
Good to be with you. Okay, so you were speaking in front of the. The House here in Texas, and there was one representative Democrat who is, some people say, is going to be the reason if Texas ever goes blue, it'll be because of this guy. And he was just arguing that you are just a religious zealot and that you don't know what you're talking about. You're just trying to indoctrinate our children into your religion by having the Ten Commandments posted in classrooms.
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Alan Dershowitz
You know, that's a great way to get off the subject, is to start attacking personalities, which is what they do, because they can't win on the subject, on the subject matter itself. And it's James Talafaros who you're talking about.
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David Barton
So he said, this is unconstitutional and un American.
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Alan Dershowitz
Two things. Un American. Sorry. The very first textbook ever used in American Schools has 40 questions for first graders on the Ten Commandments. And that was used all the way through the 1930s. So we're talking two and a half centuries of Ten Commandments in first grade classrooms. And it's un American? I don't think so. And by the way, here is that little book. This is the 1777 version, and it.
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David Barton
Went all the way to 1930.
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Alan Dershowitz
1930S. Yeah.
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David Barton
That's strange. That's a progressive era. Isn't that strange?
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Alan Dershowitz
Yeah, it's strange. So the questions there start with, like, 41. Question 41. You go to up through question.
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David Barton
A preface to the Ten Commandments is in their words, I am the Lord thy God, which has brought thou out of the land of Egypt and out of the land of bondage. What did the preface to that commandment teach us?
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Alan Dershowitz
This is the first grade. This is first grade. This is first grade for a couple.
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David Barton
Of centuries for answer the first greater question.
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Alan Dershowitz
So that. That one.
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David Barton
What did the preface teach you? Come on, come on. First grader.
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Podcast Announcer
So much, so many.
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David Barton
Crazy. Well, crazy.
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Alan Dershowitz
Here's your next one. That's McGuffey's readers. 120 million sold across two and a half centuries. Ten Commandments and McGuffey's readers. This is the second reader. So now we're in second grade and we're having the Ten Commandments. I don't have them marked in there.
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David Barton
But it's the same kind of stuff.
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Alan Dershowitz
It's the same thing. It's all the way through and so book after book after book. And here is a.
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David Barton
But wait, did they have to memorize the date? The Ten Commandments? Yeah, exactly. Memorize this date on the Ten Commandments. Forget about the Ten Commandments. But it was found on this date. Gosh.
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Alan Dershowitz
We used to get the core things right.
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David Barton
I know.
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Alan Dershowitz
That's why we taught it for school. So to say it's un American. Sorry, that doesn't hold up. Unconstitutional. You know, we had that debate with him that night in the legislature, and it clearly is the opposite direction. The Supreme Court came back and said, look, we went through 50 years of getting things wrong on religion. We're back to what they call the history and tradition test. If you can show something is historical and traditional, the court said, we're going to assume that it's constitutional. There's not many things you can show to be more traditional and historical than Ten Commandments.
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David Barton
And it honestly makes sense because the guys who wrote the Constitution.
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Alan Dershowitz
That's right.
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David Barton
You know what I mean? They, for generations, were putting this into their classrooms. They were teaching this. I think it's so important to not look at this as a religious document. I mean, it is, but not to look at this as a religious document, but just as a document of society. If you don't have, you know, thou shall not have other gods before thee, before me. That means, you know, that could be your car. That could be your job. That could be. That means don't worship anything except for truth. You know what I mean? Truth. Don't worship people or anything else. That's a good safety tip.
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Alan Dershowitz
It's good. And it is interesting, even looking back at Founding Father south when they talked about the Ten Commandments, the basis of our culture. And you have to have a common morality for any nation to exist. And so here's one from John Adams. He says, if thou shall not covet and thou shall not steal, two of the Ten Commandments were not the commandments of heaven. They must be made the inviable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free. If you don't live by these precepts, you can't be a free society. And so we have that from so many Founding Fathers, James Wilson.
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David Barton
And you know what? We see this now. Thou shall not covet. That means don't say, look at those rich people over there. Look what they have. Take it. That's what this stops.
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Alan Dershowitz
Well, it stops a lot more. We actually have 300 court cases that cite the Ten Commandments as the reason for our laws and the one you just said don't covet. That was actually cited by federal courts as the reason the Takings clause was put in the Constitution. The taking you can't take.
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David Barton
That means you can't just take it.
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Alan Dershowitz
Without paying for it.
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David Barton
Without paying for it.
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Alan Dershowitz
Because that's all based on I covet that, I want that, I'm going to take that. Even the government can't take it unless it pays for it. And so the government is to be bound by the Ten Commandments as well. And thou shalt not come.
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David Barton
And court case after court case saying that.
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Alan Dershowitz
Oh yeah, we have quoting it. Just kind of quick things. Here's 300 court cases. But California, this is a court in California. The laws against defamation come out of the Ten Commandments. Here's a court in West Virginia. The laws against election fraud are based on the Ten Commandments.
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David Barton
How?
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Alan Dershowitz
Because you're stealing, you're stealing some you're not supposed to steal and you're taking somebody else's votes. And so you're not supposed to be stealing and you're stealing. And that's what election fraud is. It's stealing. Then you have the takings clause. We talked about that one. Here's one in Florida. White collar crime. They say the laws against white collar crime and embezzlement is that stealing again, stealing. And they even say the modern forms of cattle rustling are laws against cattle rustling on the books about stealing. So there's So, I mean, 300 court cases cite the Ten Commandments, and somehow we're not going to let kids see what's been cited over 300 times in the courts as the basis of our laws.
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David Barton
He said to you that this was idol or idol idolaters.
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Alan Dershowitz
I can't say idolatrous.
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David Barton
Idolatrous, exclusionary and arrogant. And he referenced Matthew 6:5, which if I'm not mistaken, Matthew 6:5 is like, hey, when you pray, pray in your closet. You know, keep it on the down low. You don't want to point. How does Matthew 6:5 apply to putting the Ten Commandments in your classroom?
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Alan Dershowitz
Well, let's, let's go to the first part too, because it's idolatrous. This is back to are you smarter than the first grader? Remember that book you had a minute ago? So the first grade, it points out that the first and second commandment prohibit idolatry.
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David Barton
Yes.
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Alan Dershowitz
So how is the 10 commandment idolatrous if it prohibits idolatry? I mean, that's kind of maybe because.
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David Barton
You'Re making a graven image of these Things I don't know.
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Alan Dershowitz
Who knows what progressive thinking is? Because it's not logical. But within that framework, it clearly is. All right, let's take the thing you just mentioned. Go into your closet to pray. How come Jesus prayed so often in the open and did miracles in open and did his teachings in the open? Because it was all about motives. Don't pray to be seen. And Jesus didn't do what he did to be seen, but he was not private in what he did. His whole ministry was public.
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David Barton
And you can't. You know, you could say the same thing about, you know, their religion of progressivism. You know, why do they do that? It's not because they're, you know, doing anything other than they believe that you have to teach these things. You have to teach them. So kids, you know, these ideas are not just passed on naturally. You have to teach the right things or teach the wrong things, but that comes from teaching. You can't just hide these and expect the society just to get it.
- [26:44]
Alan Dershowitz
Oh, you can't. And I think it's interesting that, you know, as Taliphera was quoting that one verse from Jesus in Matthew 19, Jesus told the civil ruler, the rich young ruler, to keep the commandments. So there's an instruction to the civil area, keep the commandments. And so that came from Jesus. And so where Taliphero tries to say, religion is on one side and government is on the other, and the two should never meet if you're going to. And he gets into something where he talks about, you need parental consent for this kind of stuff. So my question is, do we need parental consent to read George Washington's Farewell Address? Because it's pretty religious. Do we need parental consent to read the Mayflower Compact? Because it's pretty religious. Do we need parental consent to do Patrick Henry's Give me liberty, give me death? Because it's really religious. How about Franklin's speech at the convention? Really religious. This is crazy stuff.
- [27:33]
David Barton
This is why Communists always snuff out the religion first. Communist and fascist snuff the religion out because those are the people that will stand for principle.
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Alan Dershowitz
That's right.
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David Barton
Because they believe it comes from God, a higher purpose, and they have a responsibility and you can do what you want to them. But a lot of them end up standing and saying, you're going to have to kill me because I know who I serve.
- [27:58]
Alan Dershowitz
You know, even the story you were covering earlier, with all the stuff that's come out now about what was happening in Russia, I'm going to go Back to the Ten Commandments on that. Because if you're God conscious, it changes your behavior.
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David Barton
It does.
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Alan Dershowitz
You and I know that we're going to stand before God and answer for what we do. And we're not going to do the stuff that they did because it doesn't matter whether the FBI gets us. It's God that's going to get us on that. And so it changes behavior. And you have a much more civilized nation when you have that. It's interesting that in the timeframe when we were teaching the Ten Commandments for all those centuries. If you go back to New York and James Kent, founding father, he was in charge of the courts of New York. He talks about how just disappointed he was on how much crime was in New York over a 16 year period. They had eight murders over 16 years. That's a murder every other year. And that's a crime wave back then. You know, think about how different the culture was, man. You get 16 murders in a weekend, easy on one street corner, pretty much in New York City. And it's so different. And that God consciousness makes a real difference in people's behavior.
- [29:05]
David Barton
The farther we get from God, the more hollowed out our children have become.
- [29:11]
Alan Dershowitz
That's right.
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David Barton
There's no purpose in life. If you take away God, you really take away purpose and you can fill it with, I gotta save the planet, you know? But that all rings hollow. That all rings hollow.
- [29:24]
Glenn Beck
You're streaming the Best of Glenn Beck. To hear more of this interview and others, download the full show. Podcasts, where you get podcasts.
- [29:32]
David Barton
Alan Dershowitz, professor emeritus of the Harvard Law School, host of the Dersh show, and the author of a new book called the Preventative State. We got to do a podcast with him on this. It's a really great book. Preventative State. Alan, welcome to the program. How are you?
- [29:48]
Stu Burguiere
Good. Always a pleasure to be on with you.
- [29:50]
David Barton
Thank you. So I heard you the other day say Ghislaine Maxwell is the Rosetta Stone.
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Stu Burguiere
Yeah.
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David Barton
What do you mean by that?
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Stu Burguiere
She's known him longer than anybody. She was his girlfriend, him with everybody. She traveled the world with him. She made all the arrangements for people to come visit him, to fly on his plane, to go to the island, to go to his home in New Mexico, to go to his home in New York, in Paris. She has records that will show who he was with. She knows everything. She knows more than anybody. I probably know after her. I probably know as much as anybody else because I was his lawyer and I told him he had to tell me the truth about everything if he wanted to get the best possible deal. And so I assume he did tell me, for example, if he had been a spy for the CIA or for the Mossad, I would be the first person he ever told because that would have helped him get a better deal. And of course, he told me he was not anything like that. But she knows much more than I do. So if she is willing to disclose everything, then I think we'll get to the bottom of this and know who's innocent and who's guilty.
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David Barton
But how can we possibly trust her? She's gone through all of her appeals. She's facing, you know, she's in jail for 20 years. I mean, you're in that situation.
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Stu Burguiere
Well, you never trust. You always verify. What you do is you ask her for leads, you say, where, where is the information? And then she has to provide it. It's not going to be her word against anybody else's. It's going to be she's providing information. She may have written records, she may have travel records, the records may be in England, they may be in a vault somewhere. But it's always distrust and verify when you're dealing with anybody in prison. So the government knows how to make deals. I've participated in deal making for years. I think it was Abby Hoffman who once said, in the halls of justice, the only justice is in the halls, because that's where the deals get taken. And so it's constantly the case where Mafia killers have reduced sentences in exchange for information about their bosses. Corporate thieves are given immunity or given reduced sentences in order to turn it. Look, when I used to teach criminal law at Harvard Law School, I would tell them, if you're going to commit a crime, there's one rule. Always commit a crime with somebody more important than you are so that you can turn them in and they can't turn you in. It's the name of the game. Let's make a deal. And so there's no reason not to make a deal with Ghislaine Maxwell. She's already served five years, which is longer than anybody has ever served to this. This kind of a crime. And so, I mean, wait, she was.
- [32:35]
David Barton
Grooming a thousand girls?
- [32:39]
Stu Burguiere
Well, there's no, no information about, no evidence about that. The evidence is that she arranged for people to come and give massages. We don't know whether she was aware of the nature of the massages because he kept his own, own life private. But even if so, you know, look at, look at, you know, Sean Combs how much worse he did. And he's gonna, you know, probably get far less than, than than five years. Five years. A lot of time for a woman in her 60s. And if you can exchange a couple of years of freedom for all the information that you need, it's probably a deal that's worth.
- [33:23]
David Barton
So why hasn't she done this before? And why did she get 20 years when others don't ever see that?
- [33:34]
Stu Burguiere
Because she got Jeffrey Epstein sentence. You know, he would have gotten the 20 years had he stayed alive, but because he died, somebody had to be held responsible. And so she got a sentence way in excess of what she would normally get. If he had stayed alive, government would have made a deal with her. She would have got no time. She would have testified against him and he would have gone to jail for the 20 or maybe 30 years life imprisonment because of his age, and she would have gotten nothing. But because she had nobody to testify against, he was dead, she got prosecuted, convicted, and sentenced to the 20 years. So normally she would not. Usually people who are in that position are the ones who testify.
- [34:19]
David Barton
So you say a grand jury would not. Would not lead to anything, but this might.
- [34:27]
Stu Burguiere
This would definitely. Grand jury wouldn't. Because grand jury testimony is always tailored in the narrowest possible way to provide just the minimum information necessary to indict. They don't want to give the defendant other information. So I don't think you're going to find much in the grand jury, but you will find a lot in the information that has been sealed by the three federal judges. But let me tell you what you're going to find. You're going to find a lot of false accusations. Let me give you an example. Give you an example of two women. One is named Sarah Ransom, and during the run up to the 2016 election, she wrote, I don't know, 50 or 60 emails to Maureen Callahan at the New York Post in which she swore that she had videotapes of Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Richard Branson, all having sex with children. They investigated and found that it wasn't true, and she eventually admitted it was totally made up. So if you're going to produce the names of the people she accused, you have to also produce what her background. Or take another woman named Maria Farmer, she was on CNN the other day as if she was the Angel Gabriel, testifying truthfully. But she has a history of lying and making up stories about people. She's also a Holocaust denier. She has emails, I have them in my possession in which she said There were no Jews killed in the Holocaust. The Jews killed everybody else in the Holocaust. This is a nut case. And she is the one that CNN is interviewing without giving any explanation about her background. So what's happened is we've heard one side of the story, we've only heard the accusations. We know that there are accusations against Bill Richardson, the former ambassador, against George Mitchell, against Ehud Barak, against the granddaughter of Jacques Cousteau. What we don't know is whether any of these allegations are true.
- [36:19]
David Barton
Now, do you know? I mean, I know you can't say anything because of, but have you seen evidence things?
- [36:29]
Stu Burguiere
Yes, of course I have. Of course I have. And I know, for example, a few obscure people who nobody ever heard of. And there's very substantial evidence that maybe they did have consensual sex with young girls, maybe some above the age of consent, maybe some below. Yes, there are such records and, and, but they're not famous people I know involving Donald Trump or Bill Clinton or Bill Gates or any of the people who have otherwise been accused whose names are well known. I don't know of anything that would corroborate that. I know of a lot of false accusations by people who shouldn't be believed. But if you're going to release the names of the accused, you have to also release the information about the accusers because there are many accusers out there who never met Jeffrey Epstein. They just collected money by making false accusations and their lawyers collected money. So this is a deep scandal which is complex and gray area. And although obviously the villain of the piece is Jeffrey Epstein, there are other villains as well. There's also some mixed story. There are women who were victims and then they became perpetrators. They went out and solicited 14 and 15 year olds for Jeffrey Epstein who got paid to do it. So, you know, there's a lot of gray area here. And if we're going to get to the whole truth, we got to make sure we get to the whole truth, including the role of some of the people who have made accusations.
- [37:58]
David Barton
So if she testifies, it will be behind closed doors. It would have to be.
- [38:03]
Stu Burguiere
I think initially it would be behind closed doors, but then you would have, look, I want every out there from day one. I want everything to be out there. I don't think anybody should be protected here. Let the public decide who's telling the truth, but only after they hear all the information. When they hear that, you know, Maria Farmer is an anti Semite Holocaust denier and that she accuses, you know, Jewish people of Doing terrible things. Then you ask yourself, maybe she has a motive. You know, she doesn't believe that the holocaust occurs. Maybe she didn't believe that there were false accusations too. She made false accusations. She lied herself as well as Ransom. So let's get to the bottom of everything. Every single thing.
- [38:52]
David Barton
Is this going to happen if a.
- [38:55]
Stu Burguiere
Deal is made with Blaine Maxwell? It will happen if you're her attorney.
- [38:59]
David Barton
What are you saying you hold out for?
- [39:03]
Stu Burguiere
Commutation, time served, probation, maybe something that gives her something in exchange for her giving away all the stuff. Information.
- [39:15]
David Barton
Alan, always great to talk to you. I. We have to schedule you for a podcast for your book, the Preventative State. Yeah, we'd love to do it.
- [39:23]
Stu Burguiere
Thank you so much.
- [39:24]
David Barton
Thank you so much. Alan Dershowitz from the Durst Show. What do you think of that, Stu? I mean, I think he's, I don't know how he does it. I don't think I could be. Well, I know I couldn't. I couldn't be an attorney and then know that guy is dirty, dirty, dirty and not say anything. I couldn't do it.
- [39:43]
Podcast Announcer
It's tough. He's the attorney in this case.
- [39:46]
David Barton
Yeah.
- [39:47]
Podcast Announcer
So he's talking about it in a way that an attorney talks about it and I understand. And he's also, by the way, been, by all appearances, falsely accused of terrible things. And there were problems with these witnesses. The idea that Ghislaine Maxwell went out and just was recruiting 14 year olds for massages and had no idea what was going on is completely insane to me.
- [40:10]
David Barton
I know. Don't.
- [40:10]
Podcast Announcer
But again, I, I understand what the, the point he's making, but man, I, I, if we care about 14 year olds being sexually abused, a deal cannot, cannot result in Ghislaine, Ghislaine Maxwell, whatever her freaking name is having being released or having some super light sentence. I mean, I don't, I don't think five years is a lot at all.
- [40:34]
David Barton
I know.
- [40:34]
Podcast Announcer
My opinion, again, he's the lawyer. He's much more smarter in these matters than I am. To me, is absolutely not enough. And 20 years is not enough. And it can go longer than that.
- [40:46]
David Barton
I don't believe that. She didn't, there's no way she didn't know. He started by saying she knows everything. She was a girlfriend, she was a confidant. She knew.
- [40:57]
Podcast Announcer
Again, he's in a tough spot here because he has attorney client privilege. He was the defense attorney in this case, so I understand that his lines, but I'm just taking it out of that Context and talking about my own moral views here.
- [41:11]
David Barton
Yeah. And I don't think it, I don't think it helps. I mean it would be good to have all the information but I don't think it's not going to solve anything. Especially if it's behind closed doors. It's not going to solve anything because I would say if this were reversed and it was Joe Biden or whatever and Hunter Biden rumored. Hunter Biden's on that list. And then she comes up and Joe Biden's in office and he gives her a pardon and she says even truthfully, Hunter Biden's not on that list. You buy it. So put yourself in the shoes of the other side. They're not going to buy. I mean I'll, I'll fight on that ship that Donald Trump did nothing with 14 year old girls. I'll fight on that ship till the day I die. I just do not believe that, that. But I don't think it's helpful for her to come out and say and he definitely wasn't a part of it.
- [42:01]
Podcast Announcer
Yeah. And I'm pretty skeptical anything that Ghislaine Maxwell says is going to change the anybody's opinion or outcome or get us any more information. I don't think she's trustworthy at all.
- [42:11]
David Barton
The way trustworthy she was telling 14 year old girls it's going to be okay. I believe me, there's no, you have no credibility.
- [42:18]
Podcast Announcer
However, the one way we can make sure that we worsen the situation of making sure that people who do these types of things grooming and more are not punished. The one way we can be sure we're going the wrong direction is to make sure someone we know did this has a lighter punishment. That's the one thing we can all come together and say we should not.
- [42:44]
David Barton
Want in this situation. I don't know what she was charged with. I don't know what the evidence was. I haven't looked into her case. So I mean his point may be for what she was charged with, don't charge. He was basically saying what she was charged with is worth about five years. But what she got was his sentence.
- [43:06]
Podcast Announcer
And I, that I could see that being the way he laid that out made sense that she, she. Because in reality if Epstein was alive she probably would have cut a deal. I wouldn't have been happy with that deal though.
- [43:16]
David Barton
No. But I don't think that's what he was saying. He wasn't saying that.
- [43:19]
Podcast Announcer
Yeah. That she would have cut a deal to make Epstein's to make sure we got a conviction more on Epstein. And therefore she would had a lighter sentence. It might have been five years or less. And that's probably true. And I would have been. Epstein was the main target. So I would have been maybe okay with that. But bottom line is they both should be in prison for a very, very long time. And again, I understand he's got legal. I mean, Alan Dershowitz cares about these legal lines a lot more than I do do. He can't say the things that he's an attorney in this case, but we can say them. And I'm frankly not thrilled with a deal with Ghislaine Max, really? For any reason. I can't imagine one I'd be happy about.
- [43:59]
David Barton
Not at all. Not at all.