Best of the Program | Guests: Stephen Moore, Ben Lamm & Richard Werner | 4/10/25

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Glenn Beck Program | Best of the Program | Guests: Stephen Moore, Ben Lamb & Richard Werner | April 10, 2025

Release Date: April 10, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Glenn Beck Program hosted by the Blaze Podcast Network, Glenn Beck engages in an in-depth discussion with distinguished guests Stephen Moore, economist and founder of the Committee to Unleash Prosperity; Ben Lamb, Co-Founder and CEO of Colossal; and Professor Richard Werner from Germany. The conversation navigates through pressing topics in American culture, politics, and economic strategies, offering listeners insightful perspectives on trade tariffs, economic policies, and groundbreaking advancements in synthetic biology.

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1. Trade Tariffs and Economic Strategy

Stephen Moore on Tariffs and Donald Trump's Negotiations

Glenn Beck opens the discussion by highlighting Stephen Moore's expertise on tariffs and their impact on the global economy. Moore elaborates on President Donald Trump's strategy to negotiate better trade deals with China and European nations. He emphasizes Trump's approach to decoupling the U.S. economy from China to create a "level playing field."

"President Trump is saying that you either start behaving yourself or we're going to throw you into the worst depression you ever had."
[06:42] - Ben Lamb

Moore underscores the significance of these tariffs, stating that while they might cause short-term fluctuations, they are essential for long-term economic stability and reducing dependency on China.

Ben Lamb on Global Economic Shifts

Ben Lamb contributes by comparing Trump's tactics to a strategic game of chess, describing Trump as "crazy like a fox" for his ability to stay multiple steps ahead in economic negotiations.

"If he can pull this off, and this would be a maestro, if he could do it, then all of a sudden you get fairer and freer."
[05:18] - Ben Lamb

Lamb also addresses the media's portrayal of Trump's actions as potentially retreatist, arguing instead that it is a calculated move to reset the global economic order.

Richard Werner on European Trade and Tariffs

Professor Richard Werner provides a European perspective on the ongoing trade tensions. He discusses the high tariffs imposed on China and the resultant risks of escalating the situation. Werner suggests that while the U.S. holds significant leverage as the most attractive market, fostering private conversations and face-saving solutions with Chinese leaders could de-escalate tensions.

"President Trump is very transparent, does things publicly, but maybe in this case where we are at this point, it's important to take it off the public focus and have some private conversations with Chinese leadership."
[22:59] - Stephen Moore

Werner advocates for policies that encourage the growth of small local banks to support small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), which are crucial for job creation and economic resilience.

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2. Economic Policies and the Banking System

The Decline of Small Local Banks

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the decline of small, local banks in the United States and Europe. Stephen Moore argues that the consolidation of banks has stifled job creation and hindered the growth of small firms, which are the backbone of the economy.

"If you combine the tariffs with the right monetary and banking policy, the US can be hugely successful."
[28:50] - Stephen Moore

Moore draws parallels with China's historical shift from a centralized banking system to one that supports numerous local banks, attributing China's economic boom to this diversification.

Impact on SMEs and Employment

Highlighting the critical role of SMEs, Moore explains that these businesses rely heavily on local banks for funding, as large banks prioritize big business over small loans. He emphasizes that reversing the trend of bank consolidation and fostering a diverse banking system is essential for a robust middle class and sustained economic growth.

"Small and medium-sized enterprises employ between 65 and 75% of total employment."
[28:22] - Stephen Moore

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3. Synthetic Biology and De-Extinction

Ben Lamb on Colossal’s De-Extinction Projects

Transitioning from economics, Glenn Beck introduces Ben Lamb, who discusses his company Colossal's pioneering work in synthetic biology and de-extinction. Lamb shares insights into their projects aimed at resurrecting extinct species like the dire wolf, dodo, and Tasmanian tiger.

"We are really close to a fundamental step that we'll be able to [resurrect the dodo]."
[44:50] - Richard Verner

Lamb emphasizes the importance of biodiversity and how their technological advancements can aid in conservation efforts. He explains that while the dire wolves are being revived in secure ecological preserves, their work also fosters public interest and excitement in science.

Ethical Considerations and Future Implications

Discussing the ethical dimensions, Lamb addresses concerns about "playing God" by bringing back extinct species. He argues that responsible management and thoughtful implementation can mitigate risks, ensuring that rewilding efforts are beneficial rather than disruptive.

"Losing biodiversity should be a bipartisan issue and we really need to save these animals."
[36:58] - Richard Verner

Lamb also touches on the potential transfer of genetic editing technologies to humans, highlighting both the opportunities and dangers inherent in such advancements.

"A lot of our technologies will be beneficial long term to helping cure inherited disease states in humans."
[43:20] - Richard Verner

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4. Technological Advancements and Geopolitical Implications

AI and Genetic Editing

Richard Werner delves into the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) in synthetic biology, noting that approximately 30% of their work relies on AI, a number that is rapidly increasing. He underscores the strategic importance of these technologies in maintaining a competitive edge on the global stage.

"You have to be able to edit multiple parts of the genome at the exact same time."
[43:20] - Richard Werner

Geopolitical Tensions and Technological Race

The conversation also addresses the geopolitical tensions arising from technological advancements. Werner warns of China's aggressive pursuit of genetic engineering to enhance human capabilities, likening it to dystopian scenarios.

"China is trying to breed smarter humans, stronger humans—it's the stuff of Nazi movies."
[39:08] - Glenn Beck

He advocates for the U.S. to lead in synthetic biology to counteract these developments and protect national interests.

"We have to change policies at the FDIC and also at the Fed. They have to be bank friendly and therefore small friendly and therefore employment friendly."
[30:22] - Stephen Moore

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5. Concluding Insights and Future Outlook

Glenn Beck wraps up the episode by reiterating the significance of the discussed topics and the need for strategic policy changes to ensure economic stability and technological advancement. The guests collectively emphasize the importance of bipartisan support in addressing economic challenges and fostering innovation.

"If you combine the tariffs with the right monetary and banking policy, the US can be hugely successful."
[28:50] - Stephen Moore

Ben Lamb and Richard Werner also hint at future projects and advancements in synthetic biology, promising breakthroughs that could revolutionize conservation and human health.

"We are pretty bullish on that. It'll work out better this round."
[44:31] - Richard Verner

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Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

• "President Trump is saying that you either start behaving yourself or we're going to throw you into the worst depression you ever had."
  - Ben Lamb [06:42]

• "If he can pull this off, and this would be a maestro, if he could do it, then all of a sudden you get fairer and freer."
  - Ben Lamb [05:18]

• "President Trump is very transparent, does things publicly, but maybe in this case where we are at this point, it's important to take it off the public focus and have some private conversations with Chinese leadership."
  - Stephen Moore [22:59]

• "Small and medium-sized enterprises employ between 65 and 75% of total employment."
  - Stephen Moore [28:22]

• "We are really close to a fundamental step that we'll be able to [resurrect the dodo]."
  - Richard Verner [44:50]

• "China is trying to breed smarter humans, stronger humans—it's the stuff of Nazi movies."
  - Glenn Beck [39:08]

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Conclusion

This episode of The Glenn Beck Program offers a thorough exploration of contemporary economic policies, the strategic imperatives behind trade tariffs, and the frontier of synthetic biology. Through expert insights and engaging dialogue, Glenn Beck and his guests provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the challenges and opportunities facing America today. Whether discussing the intricacies of economic decoupling from China or the ethical dimensions of species resurrection, the episode serves as a vital resource for anyone seeking to comprehend the complexities of modern American politics and technological innovation.

Transcript

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[Glenn Beck]

We Wayfair every style, every home. We got a ton on today. Stuff is going to blow your mind. Stephen Moore is on about the tariffs. Ben Lamb, he is the, you know, the dire wolf that they just produced. Yeah. They're working on bringing back some other animals. We have a fascinating conversation. And Professor Richard Verner, he is from Germany. He's the guy who coined the term quantitative easing. They kind of turned it upside down a little pissed about that. But, um, he talks about what's really going on with the tariffs, Europe. What Trump is actually fighting that he may not know about it, is, I Learned more in 10 minutes than I've learned in quite a while. Richard Verner joins us on today's podcast. You don't want to miss it. Everyone likes to talk about getting ahead financially, but how do you actually do that? You already work hard. Your budget, right? You budget. You do your best to save where you can. Yet month after month, it seems like money just gets eaten away from all directions. You've got bills, all kinds of other expenses. You can only cut so much. Otherwise you got to get a second job, maybe a third job. I mean, you're looking at things like credit cards, which now have an interest rate in the double digits. We're talking about 20 to 30% interest rates. Every dollar you lose to those kinds of expenses is a dollar you're not investing, the money you're not saving for retirement, the money you're not going to be able to pass on to your children someday. It's time to let American Financing in and let them help fix this with you. I've been talking about them for years, and that's because they've proven themselves to me and to my staff. Honestly, there's so many people on my staff that have done business with American Financial, and they have just done a great job. And, you know, they don't say, hey, I'm on Glenn Beck staff. They really don't care that they're on Glenn Beck staff because they work for you. They're not incentivized for the bank, so they don't treat us any differently than they treat you. And they are really, really good. And them just give you the options so you can get out from that mountain of debt. You could be saving about 800 bucks every single month. That's the average. It's over $800 a month for the anybody in this audience that has been working with American financing. That's the average. That's a lot of money to save. 800-906-2440-180090-62440 It's American financing.net Americanfinancing.net hello, America. You know, we've been fighting every single day. We push back against the lies, the censorship, the nonsense of the mainstream media that they're trying to feed you. We work tirelessly to bring you the unfiltered truth because you deserve it. But to keep this fight going, we need you right now. Would you take a moment and rate and review the Glenn Beck podcast? Give us five stars and lead a comment. Because every single review helps us break through Big Tech's algorithm to reach more Americans who need to hear the truth. This isn't a podcast. Podcast. This is a movement, and you're part of it, a big part of it. So if you believe in what we're doing, you want more people to wake up, help us push this podcast to the top rate, review, share together, we'll make a difference. And thanks for standing with us. Now, let's get to work.

[Stephen Moore]

You're listening to the best of the.

[Richard Verner]

Glenn Beck Program, the one, the only.

[Glenn Beck]

Good friend of the program, Stephen Moore, the, the founder of the Committee to Unleash Prosperity. Boy, it has been a, it's been a scary few days, Steven. The president, you know, he is a great negotiator because he just doesn't blink. Some people will say he blinked yesterday. I think he just, you know, he's, he's smart, he's not suicidal. He's just reevaluating things and, and doing what, Stephen?

[Ben Lamb]

Well, good morning, Glenn. You know, look, Trump, one thing I've learned from Donald Trump, having worked with him for the last eight years or so up and on, is he oftentimes the guy is crazy like a fox. Really is. And so sometimes he's two or three moves on the chessboard out of everybody else. So I don't, I don't know if calling this a retreat. No, I don't think way to describe it.

[Glenn Beck]

No, I don't think so. But you'll hear the media saying that. Yeah, the media is saying that.

[Ben Lamb]

And what I'm saying is, and maybe it is a retreat, but maybe this was part of the plan all along. I mean, in terms of, you know, trying to get these countries to come to the table, negotiate. And look, Glenn, you know me, I'm, I'm more of a free trade guy than Trump is, and I'm not a big fan of tariffs, but if he can pull this off, and this would be a maestro, if he could do it, then all of a sudden you get fairer and freer.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, you're breaking up, basically.

[Ben Lamb]

Agree to low to play at the level playing field. And so what. And the other thing that Trump is doing, and I think this is masterful, and I agree with him wholeheartedly on this. Look, there is one major villain in the world today, and that is China. And, you know, you've been on the story a long time. Glad. As long as I've known you, China is, in my opinion. I don't know if you agree with me on this. They are like Japan circa 1937.

[Glenn Beck]

Oh, yeah, they really are. I mean, big time. They've, they've. Japan told us what they were going to do in like, 1937. They told us China is now, too.

[Ben Lamb]

The same thing.

[Glenn Beck]

Yes, yes.

[Ben Lamb]

And we're not listening.

[Glenn Beck]

Right.

[Ben Lamb]

And so, you know, and what Trump is basically doing is, and this is a big moment for the, you know, the world economy and for world peace. Trump is saying to these other countries in the world, you've got to make a choice. Are you with us or are you with China? And I don't even know. These Europeans are so stupid. You know, they were saying a couple of weeks ago, maybe we'll just trade with China and stop trading with the United States. Now, that. That would be a catastrophically bad decision. But the whole idea here, as I see it, maybe I have, you know, I'm not in Donald Trump's mind, so I. Sometimes he sees it way beyond what I do, but I think what he wants to do is, is basically.

[Glenn Beck]

Ah, you're breaking up. Stephen, you there? What did you just say? Yeah, I can hear you now. What did you just say?

[Ben Lamb]

Okay, sorry. I was saying that I think he wants to decouple. This is Trump's grand plan. He wants to decouple the world economy.

[Glenn Beck]

Yes. From China. You got to get into another room or another state or. Have you tried Patriot Mobile?

[Richard Verner]

I will say we are tariffing Steven's phone call today.

[Glenn Beck]

So that's the cause of this.

[Stephen Moore]

Yeah.

[Glenn Beck]

Are you on Huawei?

[Ben Lamb]

Sorry, I lost you there. Again, we had a bad connection, but I can hear you now.

[Glenn Beck]

So, so he's, he wants the world to decouple from China, but I think also at the same time he wants the world to the Western world to decouple from this idea of a managed decline. Right. You know, and it, yes. And he's trying to, and I think this is, I think this is hopefully working with the rest of the world. He needs to break all the barnacles off that have just been, you know, on, on the hull of this ship forever now saying, oh well this is the way it's going to be. He's scraping all those barnacles off and saying, no, it's not going to be that way anymore. So you need to make a decision. You're either going to manage your own decline and throw in with China or you're going to go a new direction that really only he and Milei and a few others are laying out.

[Ben Lamb]

You know, it's so funny you should mention that because do you know who the two most popular politicians in the world are today?

[Glenn Beck]

Milei and Donald Trump.

[Ben Lamb]

Trump, I mean the two populist, pro people, pro free enterprise, anti big government leaders. And I've been predicting this, I think I said this on your show a few weeks ago and I maintain this, I think you're going a Trumpian revolution all over the world.

[Glenn Beck]

I do too.

[Ben Lamb]

I mean these, these European leaders, they are so out of touch with their voters. I mean remember the very start of the Trump revolution was when Britain was shocked that all of the, that majority of their people wanted out of the European Union. They said we're not gonna have these bureaucrats in Brussels tell us how we live our lives and what tea kettles we can use in our kitchen. And so you're these arrogant, out of touch, self righteous politicians are going to be thrown out of office for pro people and in pro working class politicians. And so I think Trump has started a world revolution here. I really do.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, I think Maloney is in that category. She's just I think a little softer but I think she could be in that. You know, I don't know about Marine Le Pen now that, now that they've thrown her out, I mean that just bogus.

[Ben Lamb]

Bogus. It just seems that they did her exactly what the left tried to do to Donald Trump's lawsuits.

[Glenn Beck]

Correct. And those countries like France that are doing that I think are going to be in real, real trouble. You know, it was interesting to me that the Prime Minister of England came out starmer who is absolutely a Wef clone.

[Ben Lamb]

He's horrible.

[Glenn Beck]

He's horrible. And he came out and so like the age of globalization is over. You can't play this game. You can't say that and then be part of globalization. It's going to end really badly for him. Do you agree or disagree?

[Ben Lamb]

Yeah, yeah. I think the Britain is really in bad shape right now and they need to find a Trump candidate. And maybe it's, you know, who's the one who. I'm blanking on his name. The guy who led Britain out of moment here. Anyway, I do think that's going to.

[Glenn Beck]

Nigel Farage.

[Ben Lamb]

Nigel. Yeah, exactly. And I made friends with Nigel. I couldn't remember.

[Glenn Beck]

I know.

[Ben Lamb]

Anyway, I think he could be the next leader of Britain. And so I don't know which way the Europeans are going to go, frankly. I mean, I think they're totally confused with their leadership in these countries. And by the way, I've got to tell you, Glenn, I've been doing over the last month almost every day like BBC and all these European stations and you know, and some of the Asian stations and they're so indignant and they're like, Trump is causing a trade war. What is it? What is wrong with this guy? Blah, blah, blah. And I just very calmly say, well listen, you're terrorists in Britain or Germany or, you know, Japan, whatever country it is has it. You're terrorists of three or four times higher than ours. So you're saying Trump is starting a trade war. We're saying you already started the trade war. How can you self righteously say, how dare Trump raise his terrorists? We're terrorists three or four times. You know what, they never even answer the question. Well, because they just move on.

[Glenn Beck]

Here's the thing, they expect that to be the norm because we rebuilt. I mean, the reason why we accepted these things early on was because we didn't want to. We wanted to make sure the Germans, Germans not having jobs is a very bad idea. We wanted Germans to be able to rebuild their factories and Mercedes Benz and everything else. So we had those. And now they just expect that to be the norm. And Donald Trump is like it was the norm. It can no longer be the norm.

[Ben Lamb]

And you know what? It's. So you're exactly right about that, Glenn. And I would just add something. One of the things we've learned from this is that it's no longer being recorded. Sorry, okay. One of the things we've learned from you in prison.

[Glenn Beck]

Are you calling from a prison?

[Ben Lamb]

What you were just describing that kind of American relationship with like rebuilding Europe. It's like the welfare state, you know, where people become dependent on welfare state and Europe is dependent on the welfare that we give them. And that's why that one of the first things Trump did that I thought was so fantastic is that, you know, if you're not paying your NATO dues, we're out. And they again, they ditched and they moan, they complain, but guess what? They played their notes. I know, you know, I mean, I just, the indignation and the self righteousness and the sense of entitlement of these countries, it drives me absolutely nuts.

[Glenn Beck]

So let me ask you, the stock market is, is down again?

[Ben Lamb]

Down again. Yeah, yeah. Why turvy for a while? Well, that's a good question.

[Richard Verner]

Why?

[Ben Lamb]

I don't know. Okay. I, and you know, who knows why? It was way up yesterday. Dow Jones and a per point basis was up more than any time at any day in American history. But you know, look, it's going to be up and down, up and down until this, this reset happens. And it's so, it's going to be topsy turvy I think for the next several months. So get, you know, get ready for that, folks. But at the end of the day, I think Trump will prevail. I think we're going to have a much securer economy and, and these countries are going to stop, stop treating us like we're daddy war bucks.

[Glenn Beck]

So because we're out of, we're not, we seemingly never out of war, but we are out of bucks. Stephen, yesterday I sent you something about the basis trade. And this is something that's so in the weeds for most people, but what's happening to the hedge funds and our, you know, bonds. And that looked really frightening. Is that going to stop? Because that was something that they were doing before. They said it might have been, you know, blown over with a feather of Trump. But this is something that's been going on and there are deep, deep cracks in it is how is that, how's that go?

[Ben Lamb]

Well, yeah, so just for background, what happened starting a few days ago is that foreigners started to sell their, sell their U.S. bonds. And that happened in Japan. And then Russia was selling some of their bonds, China was selling their bonds. And the interest rate on those bonds, when people sell bonds, that means you have to pay more interest to get people to buy them. And so the interest rate went from like three and a half to four and a half. Not, not exactly, but, but almost up a full percentage point.

[Glenn Beck]

Right.

[Ben Lamb]

And so that's bad for America because that means, you know, we owe $3.35 trillion and the debt turns over. And that means, you know, when the, when those bonds come due, then we have to issue no, no new bonds at a higher interest rate. And as you know, you've reported on this many times, you know, I think interest expenses are like the second highest expenditure in our federal budget. So, you know, but, you know, if you're not going to invest in US Bonds are still the safest in the world by far. There's not no other, you know, are you going to buy Russian bonds? You're going to buy European bonds? So I'm not too concerned about it, but I think that, but, you know, China has several trillion dollars of our bonds. And this is why having such an enormous deficit is a problem. And, you know, because then we have to borrow money from, you know, from people we don't want to have to borrow money from.

[Glenn Beck]

Right. Are they, I mean, you know, they're serious. We just said Trump is serious on China, China's serious on us. Are they able to dump our bonds, survive? Are they able to really fight this war out? I mean, no. No, they're not.

[Ben Lamb]

So this is the key insight that Donald Trump has made, which is so right on the mark that our economy is still substantially bigger than China's. In fact, our stock market is five times higher than China. So they're not even close with respect to the net worth of their companies. I mean, you just take the seven, the magnificent seven. They have more value than every, every company in China. So we have a huge lead on them. And the fact is that now, look, they've been catching up, no question. And look, I want to give you guys, your listeners, a little history lesson. What happened in China. And it's. First of all, Mao was the greatest villain who ever lived probably in the history of mankind. He murdered 100 million people of his own people, and yet he's still on the currency. They still have pictures of Mao that would be like, you know, us putting Benedict Arnold on our currency. And so then you had the free market revolution that happened in the early 1980s, which was amazing. It shows what. They went from communist overnight to free markets, and their economy exploded, exploded for about 20 years. Then we decided to let them into the world trade organ because they were on the road to freedom. And then President Xi comes in and he goes back to communism. That's, I mean, this is an oversimplification, but not much of one. So we're not dealing with A free enterprise. We are, we are dealing with a very dangerous country right now. And Xi has said this in 20 years. He said, we want China to take over the world.

[Glenn Beck]

Yes.

[Ben Lamb]

And we, we were just sitting by and letting that happen. And Trump finally said, no, that isn't going to happen now. Now look, we have benefited over the last 30 years from being able to get cheap things from China, but their economy is completely dependent on having access to America's $20 trillion consumer market. If Trump says you don't have access to that anymore, they go through a Great depression that makes like what happened in the United states in the 1930s look like a picnic. And that's the leverage that Trump is using with China. He's saying that you either start behaving yourself or we're going to throw you into the worst depression you ever had. Now, it will hurt us, but it's not going to hurt us nearly as much as it's going to hurt them. So it'll hurt the people.

[Glenn Beck]

It'll hurt the people that shop at Walmart hardest. Right. You know, the bottom of the society, you know, the ones that are just scraping by all the time, they're the ones are going to be hit the hardest here in America. But it is something where we just going to have to help our neighbors more. Not expect the government to do it, but help our neighbors more. Because it is crucial that we just, we decouple the world and ourselves from China as much as we can.

[Ben Lamb]

So can I know real quick.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah.

[Ben Lamb]

Make one other quick point. We have to have a movement you and I called Sell China. And what I mean by that is every one of us as citizens of this great country, just make a point of it. Just stop buying things from China. You may, you know, you might have to pay $3 more for a pair of shoes. You may have to buy, you know, pay $3, $4 more for the T shirt. Do it. If you love your country, stop buying China.

[Glenn Beck]

Yep. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Stephen Moore. So she didn't think it would ever happen to her. Not in her own neighborhood, not on a Tuesday morning, not before she even had her coffee. But there she was, standing in the driveway in her robes and a robe and socks, watching some dude try to break into her car like it was his full time job. She yelled. The guy looked up, but he didn't run. That's the moment it got real. She didn't want to hurt anybody, but she wasn't going to stand there in her robe and slippers and just try to negotiate either. So she knew where a burner launcher was. She hit him with a couple of rounds from a burning launcher she was carrying. In a second she was down or he was down, sorry. On the ground in pain, out of commission for a while. He started to get up and then she hit a CO2 cartridge full of tear gas. And he didn't move again. Well, he rolled around on the ground going, my eyes, my eyes was a problem, you know, police came that gave him a washcloth. It was all right. Burn a launcher. It means business. I have one, my wife has one. I've given it to all the members of my family soon as they turned 18 because it's legal in all 50 states. Burna by R N A dot com Glenn get 10% off your discount now. Protect yourself and your family by r n a.com Glenn now back to the podcast. This is the best of the Glenn Beck program. Richard Verner, he is an economist. You can find him at professorverner.org, professor verner.org Richard Werner professor, how are you, sir?

[Stephen Moore]

Very well, thank you. Good to be on your program.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, good to have you on again. You're looking at the situation and it is changing by the hour. What are you feeling especially you're from Germany. Are you still in Germany today or are you here in the United States?

[Stephen Moore]

I'm actually in the U.S. in the U.S. right.

[Glenn Beck]

All right. What is happening in Germany and in Europe and how's this whole trade thing affecting everybody?

[Stephen Moore]

Well, it is affecting everyone because if you have the sort of list of tariffs that were announced last week, presently suspended. But if you look at the numbers for some countries, these were significant changes and potentially even now that they're being suspended, but they're still in place with China. Very, very high numbers. You mentioned it, you know, in the triple digit percentage tariff for China and China retaliating, that is very dangerous because China is part of supply chains across the globe, even involving other countries. And of course, the US President Trump has a point. The US Is the most attractive market. Everyone wants to export to the U.S. so it's true that the U.S. has some leverage there. The question is what do we want to achieve and how do we go about it in order to make sure we actually achieve it? At the moment, there is a risk the situation will escalate, particularly this confrontation now laser focused on China is the bad guy. And you know, you see in Asia it's very important not to lose face and not to be publicly accumulated. And at the moment, you know, of Course, that's why they, you know, they can't easily give in. One has to create an opportunity in opening for a compromise or, you know, China to give in. So what would be allowed, you know, at the moment, the way it's done is very hard.

[Glenn Beck]

President Trump said this yesterday. He said, look, it's important in China that they don't lose faith, face that they're not humiliated. And he said, I feel like they feel like they're being humiliated right now. So what should he be doing while still staying tough? What kind of opportunity should be presented to de escalate this?

[Stephen Moore]

I think it's important to take it off the, I mean, you know, President Trump is very transparent, does things publicly, but maybe in this case where we are at this point, it's important to take it off, you know, the public focus and have some private conversations with Chinese leadership and maybe they even suggest a way in which this may be done. Essentially one needs a face saving solution that makes both sides look good. This can be done because the Chinese are as much interested in making a deal as President Trump is. The Chinese are famous for commerce, for trading, for doing deals. So just have to be done in such a way that they're not forced into a corner and then they feel obliged to also stand up to what appears to be bullying to them and appear tougher than they actually should be at this stage. So I think it can be done. I mean, I'd be glad to help get me into the Trump team. I've got good relations. I was invited to be professor of finance at one of their top universities, Fudan in Shanghai. Met very senior people in China and I mean, I've been in Japan for 12 years and now how to talk to them in Asia at the moment there is perhaps this lack of the right approach. But it's fantastic news, as you mentioned, that President Trump is now acknowledging this and I think this creates an opening with the right advice. The other point I'd like to make actually is that I think it is very smart of President Trump to raise fundamentally the tariff issue and how the US had not always been treated equally by other countries when it comes to trade and tariffs. That is very valid. And tariffs in history have been, well, actually mixed, but have been very successful and good for America and also for other countries that use them, if and when they're used in combination with the right policies, domestic policies. And that's where I think the Trump team still needs some good advice. The Trump team knows that this official mainstream neoclassical economics is not to Be trusted. And that's very true, but they're still lacking the right advice. I'm an expert in high growth economics and I think the US can have 15% growth for 40 years like China had. This can be done. There's no real what needs to happen. You have the right policies in place.

[Glenn Beck]

What needs to happen? What is he missing? I mean, because I think what's missing is the Congress doing their job and putting other things in place. What are you saying is missing?

[Stephen Moore]

Yes, well, it's a key thing is to do with money and those who create money. Now, the Fed has created a lot of money, far too much in recent years and has caused inflation, everything. But actually, normally, central banks only create 3% of the money supply. 97% of the money supply normally is created by who? The banks, the banking system and the banks normally. And this is capitalism, where you don't have central planners making decisions, but you've got private commercially oriented enterprises making decisions. And so the more diversified your banking system, and particularly the more small local banks you have, the stronger your economy, stronger job creation. And that's where in the past the US has been extremely strong, but in recent years, under other presidents and other regulatory authorities, have really reduced the number of small local banks. I mean, there's been a collapse in the number of community banks and local banks almost across the United States. And that's very bad for job creation and small firms and their competitiveness. And China is the best case in point. They used to have this centralized Soviet style system with only one bank. And then when the leader Deng Xiaoping came to power in 1978, he felt, let's forget about all this ideology under Mao, Chairman Mao, let's deliver outcome, let's deliver performance and growth. How do we do it? Well, let's learn from those who did it. And he went to Japan and asked the Japanese, what's your secret of success? And they told him, you need banks. How many banks do you have? One bank. Are you serious? For 600 million people at the time? Something like that. You need more banks than that? How about 5,000? And that's what he did. So he went back to China and created 5,000 small banks, local banks, village banks, credit unions, regional banks, rural savings banks, provincial banks.

[Glenn Beck]

So what does Trump need to do to do that here?

[Stephen Moore]

That lend to small firms.

[Glenn Beck]

Sorry, what does he need to do to create that here? How should he be encouraging?

[Stephen Moore]

Well, first of all, one needs to take the pressure off the small banks to merge because the Federal Reserve and the FDIC have been closing banks and forcing them to merge. That's why thousands of banks have disappeared in the us. I mean job creation. Politicians talk about job creation. But who is the main employer? It is small firms.

[Glenn Beck]

Yes.

[Stephen Moore]

SME, small and medium sized enterprises employ between 65 and 75% of total employment. And there is a special thing about small firms. They can't get money from capital markets. Wall street is not open to them. The only external source of funding is banks, local banks, banks that we all have another rule. Big banks don't lend to small firms. It doesn't make sense. So who lends to small firms? It's only small banks. And that's why America in the past was very strong. When they were going a few decades back, we had more than 20,000 banks. Mostly these thousand thousand small local banks, community banks, and that was great. But the regulators and the centralization have led to mergers and the number of banks have been going down rapidly. FDIC closing down healthy banks. For some reason they think it's a good idea. Same in Europe. Ecb, European Central bank says we have too many banks, we have to close the small local banks. Well, that's how you kill the middle class, right? That's really what happened to the middle class, that the small firms are not supported anymore. You know, when there's a new technology coming out, the small firms, they're not necessarily the innovators, but they're the ones that have to quickly adapt, adopt the new technology. And for that you need money. If you have a small local bank that knows you, you will get your funding, you can upgrade, you can maintain your market share and stay competitive, expand jobs, basically. But in countries where the banking system gets too concentrated, the US is now at risk of becoming one of those.

[Glenn Beck]

I know.

[Stephen Moore]

For example, look at the UK five big banks. The small firms get nothing from these big banks.

[Glenn Beck]

But isn't this.

[Stephen Moore]

They can't afford to do these small loans. They have to do big business. They lend to the hedge funds and private equity funds in billions. And that works for the big banks. Is it really good that the US is heading that way? No, we have to change that. So we have to change policies at the FDIC and also at the Fed. They have to be bank friendly and therefore small friendly and therefore employment friendly. So if we combine the tariffs with the right monetary and banking policy, the US can be hugely successful. Glenn, you've got connections. Help me to get to the Trump team.

[Glenn Beck]

I'll put a word in for you. But I mean, I'm lucky to talk to the janitor. So, Richard, let me, let me go to Europe here for a second because I think what Trump is trying to do on many of his things is to break this elite almost World Economic Forum grip on dismantling the West. He doesn't believe in the, you know, slow decline of the West. He is looking to change directions 180 degrees. And I think that's part of what these tariffs on Europe and everything else is to say, look, we're going in a different direction. We have to go in a different direction. Who's with me? Does that, do you read it that way or not?

[Stephen Moore]

Well, I think that is a, certainly is one possibility in it. And that would be, you know, that would be a good goal because Europe is really still under the thrall of, you know, World Economic Forum and the deep state and including the US Deep state. You know, it's still very active in Europe. We mustn't forget that sometimes when President Trump ends up arguing with European leaders, he is still arguing with his old nemesis, his old enemy, which is the CIA. You know, they're running Europe. They've got their assets in place. And of course, the World Economic Forum is a CIA asset. You know, it was under Kissinger that the CIA funded this program which brought Klaus Schwab to the fore. You know, so President Trump needs to realize that he's still fighting the old enemy, but now, you know, you know, he won domestically, but, you know, the old enemy is strong in Europe and other places still where they've had their foothold through, you know, traditional military, foreign bases, you know, where the US army is and so on, Japan included. And that's, that explains a lot of restriction. And so, yes, in many ways it's good that Europe sees okay, there's going to be a change of policy, but they're just going to now, while they're still under instruction from their miners at the CIA, they're just really agitating against the United States against Trump. They're talking about, well, we have to decouple. We can't trust America anymore at all.

[Glenn Beck]

We're gonna.

[Stephen Moore]

And when the reality is they're now just totally still following their minders. So the deep state minders.

[Richard Verner]

World Economic Forum, you're streaming the Best of Glenn Beck to hear more of this interview and others. Download the full show podcasts, wherever you get podcasts.

[Glenn Beck]

Ben Lamb, Colossal Co Founder, CEO, welcome to the program.

[Richard Verner]

Hey, thanks for having me back, Lynn. It's good to talk to you again.

[Glenn Beck]

You bet. It's great to talk to you. I. First, I have to show this. This picture of George R.R. martin with the dire wolf. That is. I mean, that's brilliant. It's really brilliant.

[Richard Verner]

I mean, he, he, George R.R. martin and game of Thrones, you know, made direwolves popular in pop culture. Many people think they're a myth, but, you know, they were a.

[Stephen Moore]

A.

[Richard Verner]

An American wolf. They were the large wolf. And, you know, we got challenged, you know, you know, we're working on the mammoth and Tasmanian tiger and the dodo, but we got challenged by some of our indigenous partners and the government and a few others saying, why aren't you working first on an American species? Like, why are you not prioritizing that? So we got a lot of pressure and feedback. And then when we. When we got close to it, we were like, well, if we don't bring George R.R. martin in, we're kind of mean because he's the guy that made him the most popular.

[Glenn Beck]

You know, it kills me. Everybody is. I mean, I did the same thing. I saw the video of the, you know, the wolves howling and stuff as little babies, and I'm like, oh, that's so cute. They're an apex predator.

[Stephen Moore]

They are.

[Glenn Beck]

They are been gone for now 10,000 years. Why bring them back so colossal is.

[Richard Verner]

A de extinction and species preservation company, right? And so we're going to lose up to 50% of biodiversity training now in 2050. And so we need new tools in the fight, right? We think it's better to have a de extinction toolkit than. Than. And not need it then, you know, not have the extinction toolkit and need it. And so we're working on all these different species, and we started having meetings with MHA Nation, one of the largest tribal groups here in the United States. And they started giving us the feedback that, you know, we need to do more for wolf conservation. Not enough going on with wolf conservation. It would be amazing if we could work on something like the great wolf. So then they started telling us that from their oral tradition, they believe that the great wolf was the dire wolf. And I kind of sat with you. I was like the Game of Thrones wolf. And so we had these great conversations, and then a few months later, we were in North Carolina, and we learned that the most endangered wolf in the world is the American wolf, the red wolf. There's only 15 left. And so, like, when you think about Americana, you think about the bison and you think about the bald eagle, and you think about wolves, it would be a travesty to lose these. And they've been on the endangered.

[Glenn Beck]

Wait, wait, wait. I mean, I live in for half the year in a place that has mountain lions and wolves. They're both very, very important to have, but they're also spooky as hell. And you're not talking about, I mean, you're, you're not talking about preserving that species. You're, you just introduced a species that's been gone for 10,000 years.

[Richard Verner]

Yeah, we have. And they are on a secure, expansive ecological preserve in the north. And if they ever go back into the wild, it will be in collaboration with the government as well as some of the tribes, and they would go back on secure private lands. They aren't rewilding direwolves. I mean, you're not going to be walking down the street worried about direwolves.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, well, I just know last time the government got involved with wolves it was at Yellowstone. And that didn't work out well for anybody.

[Richard Verner]

No, rewilding. Rewilding works as long as it's done thoughtfully and managed. And the problem is if sometimes people just get so overzealous on certain sides of the table that they just, just go out and muck with nature. It really needs to be studied. It really needs to be managed. It needs to be thoughtfully taken out. But a lot of times people don't realize that and they just get overzealous. Right. And they politicize it. At the end of the day, losing biodiversity. It should be a bipartisan issue and we really need to save these animals. And so by doing what we're doing, though, Glenn, we're actually building technology to save animals. And so we were actually able to clone. No one's talking about this, which is crazy. We were actually able to clone four red wolves with more genetic diversity than the existing 15 that are still left in the wild. That's a 25% bump in genetic diversity that has been gone, you know, for tens, you know, for, you know, over a decade.

[Glenn Beck]

Okay, so, I mean, you, you describe your company. I'm sorry. I love the technology. I love what you're doing. I love the way you think.

[Richard Verner]

We've talked a lot about it. Right, okay.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, I know.

[Richard Verner]

We, on our last time we talked, you asked about the CIA because in Q Tel is an investor. But you know, we fall into a category called synthetic biology. Right. So being able to use AI and software as well as being able to edit and rewrite genomes is really critical. Technology, it's as important as technology as space technologies and other defense related technologies and our adversaries are advancing these technologies.

[Glenn Beck]

Right. And then we are trying. So let me. Because I. This is like everything now, especially with AI and any of this, you know, crispr, all of this technology, you can't stop it. You can't put it back in the bottle because others are doing it. What China is doing with this on trying to breed smarter humans, stronger humans, you know, fighters. I mean, it's, it's the stuff of Nazi movies.

[Richard Verner]

That's what they've, that's actually what they've said publicly. So everything you're saying is what they have said publicly. They said that the Beijing Genomics Institute is sequencing as many humans as possible. They use Covid as ruse to like pull in as many samples as possible, sequencing them. And then they said, we're looking for the genes that make the smartest people and we are going to engineer people. I mean, that's not even like crazy concerned, you know, conspiracy. They have said that out loud. So what have they not said out loud?

[Glenn Beck]

Right? Any idea what they haven't said out loud?

[Richard Verner]

Well, I mean, what, I mean, if you think about what, what Colossal is trying to do, right, is we're trying to at least do it. We don't do anything with humans. So we do, even though work with the federal government, we do have this kind of moratorium that we are not working on humans, only on animals. We won't even work on, you know, non human, non human primates. We're only working on the species that are working. But we are advancing these technologies that have applications to humans. Right. And you know, we are understanding from like a 72,000 year old skull what made a dire wolf bigger and stronger. It had a bigger jaw and stronger muscles and denser bones. We can now understand that with our technologies and engineer that into its closest living relative being, the gray wolf. Right. And so think about that same type of data apply to humans. Right. I think that you can look at it as, you know, adversarial countries can advance these technologies in a way where they can look at how can we enhance humans. And so for us, I think we as an American company that works very, very closely with the federal government. The Secretary of Interior just endorsed our work and we work very closely with Department of Interior.

[Glenn Beck]

It's not necessarily an endorsement that my audience likes. You should de. Emphasize that with my audience because that's not a good thing.

[Richard Verner]

It's not what anyone likes. It's just about.

[Glenn Beck]

Right.

[Stephen Moore]

Okay.

[Glenn Beck]

All right. Yeah, good for you. Good for you.

[Richard Verner]

Like, I think it's important for us to Always be, you know, we're pretty bipartisan. We work with both sides.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah.

[Richard Verner]

But I do think it's important to be transparent when things happen. And I think that us as America has to lead in synthetic biology. And Colossal is one of the most advanced synthetic biology companies.

[Glenn Beck]

So what is the difference between directed evolution and playing God?

[Richard Verner]

It's a great question you asked me this last time. Right. I think that we as humans play God quite a bit. Right. And so I'll look at it from ecosystems perspective. When we overfish the ocean or we cut down too much of the rainforest, we are playing God on some level when we eradicate species. But now we have these tools and technologies that we can biobank species, protect them and even bring them back. Right. And I think this is going to be really helpful for how we balance progress as well as how we balance, you know, protection. And I think that we need these tools more now than ever because we could lose up to 50% of biodiversity, all life on Earth between now and 2050. That's the current trend line.

[Glenn Beck]

So, you know, AI is dangerous. It's glorious and horrifying at the same time. Just depends on, you know, who's using it and how that thing goes. And it's why Elon Musk says we have to have, we have to have the singularity as does as defined as human computer interface. So we, we merge as one. That's something of sci fi movies. Do you believe that the genetic editing tech that you are helping to design is going to be transferred to humans? Is there a time that you think, oh, well, that's probably has to.

[Richard Verner]

I think that we will be able to look. So one of the biggest things that Colossal works on is what's called multiplex editing, being able to edit multiple parts of the genome at the exact same time. Right. And so that's part of what we really, really need to continue to advance. Because most disease states, specifically ones that drive, you know, predispositions to cancer and Alzheimer's and others, are multigenic in nature. Right. And so for us, I think it's very, very important to advance those technologies. So that you've probably heard about sickle cell anemia, where there's CRISPR tools and technologies that are being used to do a single knockout. But most genes or most of these states are multigenic in nature. So you have to be able to edit multiple parts of the genome. So I do think that a lot of our technologies will be beneficial long term to helping cure inherited disease states in humans. And I think that's a good thing.

[Glenn Beck]

How much of this is AI driven?

[Richard Verner]

I'd say 30% of our work wouldn't be possible without AI.

[Glenn Beck]

And imagine that number is growing exponentially. I mean, I know our.

[Richard Verner]

Exponentially. Exponentially.

[Glenn Beck]

You know, you named the direwolves Romulus and Remus, and I'm not a mythology expert, but I do know. Abandoned birth, raised by wolf, founded Rome, yada, yada. But didn't Romulus also kill Remus?

[Richard Verner]

Yeah, we are. Romulus loves Remus, and Romulus is the bigger one. But they do love each other pretty well. So we're hoping that not all of history will repeat itself.

[Stephen Moore]

Like.

[Ben Lamb]

Right.

[Richard Verner]

Including the fall of Rome.

[Ben Lamb]

We're. We're.

[Richard Verner]

We're pretty. We're pretty bullish on that. It'll work out better this round.

[Glenn Beck]

Okay, good. Good. So am I. I guess I. I mean, I guess we're rooting for that. All of us are together on that one. That's a great goal to have.

[Stephen Moore]

We're all.

[Richard Verner]

We're all. We're all rooting for the non. Fall of Rome.

[Glenn Beck]

What is the. What's the next thing that you can talk about that you're going to tell the world about someday?

[Richard Verner]

Yeah. So, I mean, we're making a lot of progress. I think we're on the very cusp of a pretty big breakthrough for the dodo project. Right. So, talking about balance, going from direwolves to dodos, you know, we made some updates on the Tasmanian tiger, another apex predator that we announced last week. Last year.

[Glenn Beck]

Can we slow down on the apex predators just a little bit?

[Richard Verner]

Very important. I mean, look, elephants kill more people than wolves.

[Glenn Beck]

No, I know.

[Richard Verner]

There's only been five Wolf confirmed attacks in the last 100 years. You have. You have a higher probability of getting struck by lightning by getting. While getting eaten by a shark than getting attacked by wolves.

[Glenn Beck]

No, I know that. Have you ever been. Have you ever been in the wild and a wolf.

[Richard Verner]

Quite a bit of the wild.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah. With a wolf by yourself. You know, a wolf walks up. Yeah.

[Richard Verner]

Terrifying. I've actually never been. I've been very close to wolves in certain ecological preserves.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah. No, I've been on my own land and a wolf walks out from the bushes and you're like. Like, oh, dear God. Because they are spooky.

[Richard Verner]

It's definitely spooky. Right. I'm more scared of mountain lions and wolves, personally, but I saw a mountain lion once. The scariest thing I ever saw was I was actually in Cape Tribulation in Australia once in a Cassowary a bird walked out, and that thing's like a living velociraptor and that. And it was just me. I was by myself and I was like, like, I'm going to die. Because they're very aggressive, they're very hard, very rare to even see them. But, yeah, I mean, look, living with nature is what we got, right? We got to figure out how we do that. But our next species that we'll probably have some big updates on is the dodo. We're really close to a fundamental step in the dodo resurrection. We don't have dodos. We won't for a long time. But I do think that we are pretty close to a fundamental step that we'll be able to.

[Glenn Beck]

Now, one last thing. Thing.

[Richard Verner]

You.

[Glenn Beck]

You say that, you know, you are trying to help species survive because we're gonna lose all these species. Why are you bringing back things like the direwolf that humans didn't have anything to do with the extinction? Why are you bringing those back?

[Richard Verner]

So anthropologic effects, if you look at kind of the rise, if you look at kind of the rapid, younger, driest cooling period, also compared globally, not just in America, the rise of anthropologic effects, early humans did drive a lot of the extinction of megafauna here in the United States as well as globally. I do think that there's a lot of data that's starting to suggest some of the effects of the younger Dryas cooling period that was a rapid period that may have had meteorological effects that affected it. For us, we want to use these technologies to bring back these species so that we can study them, so that we can look to rewild them if it makes sense, and also pair them to build technologies for wolves, right? In the case of the dire wolf or Asian elephants, in the case of the mammoth. And one of the things that we don't. That no one really talks about is every single week we get dozens of letters from parents and kids and pictures of little woolly mammoths and dodos and hopefully now dire wolves. And people are telling us, and teachers are telling us that their kids are excited about science now, right? And people are getting more and more excited about science. And so if you ask a teacher or a parent about colossal, many of them know more teachers and parents know because their kids are telling them in the classroom. And I think we need science now more than ever. And I think getting kids excited about science through de extinction while also helping conservation is a really good thing.

[Glenn Beck]

Ben, there is no better spokesperson for Colossal than you. Colossal Co Founder and CEO Ben Lamb. Thanks Ben Ben for being on. I thanks Glenn. Appreciate it. God bless.