Ep 252 | Why Conservatives Flipped to Supporting Trump’s Tariffs | The Glenn Beck Podcast

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ep 252 | Why Conservatives Flipped to Supporting Trump’s Tariffs | The Glenn Beck Podcast

Release Date: April 5, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 252 of The Glenn Beck Program, host Glenn Beck engages in a deep-dive discussion with Kevin Roberts, President of the Heritage Foundation and political strategist behind Project 2025. The conversation centers on the surprising shift among conservatives towards supporting President Trump’s tariff policies—a move that has significant implications for American industry, international trade, and political dynamics.

1. The Conservative Shift to Supporting Tariffs

Glenn Beck opens the discussion by explaining Heritage Foundation's pivot on tariffs:

Glenn Beck [02:47]: “We can support tariffs, particularly if they're reciprocal tariffs and they are targeted on the worst violators... something with such a broad brush might be more damaging than the President intends.”

Roberts elaborates on this strategic shift, emphasizing the need for targeting specific economic adversaries rather than applying blanket tariffs:

Kevin Roberts [04:11]: “The most important thing is sustaining the political will for this administration... Heritage wants to support the sort of middle of the road position.”

2. Impact on Small Businesses

The conversation highlights real-world consequences of the tariffs on small businesses. Roberts shares personal anecdotes of friends facing closures due to tariff-induced costs, despite their support for Trump:

Kevin Roberts [04:51]: “I'm going to be out of business... they're going to go out of business and there's going to be a chain reaction that's very unintended here.”

Beck responds by advocating for a balanced approach that includes a timeline for small businesses to adjust:

Glenn Beck [05:37]: “Focus on reciprocal tariffs that focus on China and other bad actors, while implementing a ramp for small businesses to adjust.”

3. Presidential Administration’s Strategy and Political Will

Roberts praises President Trump’s leadership and ability to maintain momentum despite challenges in Congress:

Kevin Roberts [08:57]: “Donald Trump is the best negotiator I've ever seen... he loves America as much as me.”

Beck concurs, attributing the administration's ability to navigate economic challenges to its strong and competent cabinet:

Glenn Beck [09:31]: “He's got a cabinet that I think is the best assembled in modern history.”

4. International Reactions and Geopolitical Implications

The episode delves into international responses to the tariff policies, particularly from the European Union, Canada, and Mexico. Roberts criticizes Trudeau and other leaders for their protectionist stances:

Kevin Roberts [32:51]: “They are going to try to stop it... sabotage.”

Beck expresses confidence in American resilience and the administration's strategy to handle international pushback:

Glenn Beck [33:07]: “Regular people in the United States and in these European countries have had enough. It's imperative that President Trump really gets a detailed plan on reciprocal tariffs.”

5. Economic Policies Beyond Tariffs

Roberts emphasizes that tariffs alone won't revitalize the economy; they must be complemented by deregulation, tax cuts, and budget reductions:

Kevin Roberts [11:42]: “Tariffs alone will not do the job... you have to have actual tax cuts for people who are going to build businesses and hire people and massive deregulatory actions.”

Beck agrees, highlighting the necessity of a comprehensive economic overhaul:

Glenn Beck [12:53]: “Even tariff benefits won't materialize without deregulation and tax cuts.”

6. Future Outlook and Political Implications

The discussion shifts to the potential long-term effects of tariff policies on American leadership and economic supremacy. Beck draws parallels to historical economic leadership:

Glenn Beck [26:30]: “We actually take our place back prior to the Progressive Era... coming up with electricity, lighting up cities.”

Roberts warns of internal threats and stresses the importance of maintaining unity within the Republican Party to achieve policy goals:

Kevin Roberts [35:39]: “We're fighting against terrorism within the political landscape... it’s vital that the administration cannot forget the importance of keeping people on the team.”

7. Concluding Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Beck and Roberts reaffirm their belief in the administration’s policies and their potential to restore American industrial strength and global standing. They underscore the importance of reciprocal tariffs as a tool for economic fairness and national revitalization.

Glenn Beck [49:26]: “It's imperative that President Trump and his administration really get a detailed plan on reciprocal tariffs... this makes them more vulnerable to sabotage.”

Kevin Roberts [50:27]: “We are like brothers. Rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.”

Key Takeaways

• Strategic Tariffs: Heritage Foundation supports targeted, reciprocal tariffs aimed at major economic violators like China, diverging from previous conservative free-trade stances.

• Small Business Impact: Tariffs present immediate financial challenges for small businesses, necessitating supportive measures and phased implementation.

• Comprehensive Economic Reform: Successful economic revitalization requires a combination of tariffs, deregulation, tax cuts, and budget reductions.

• International Resistance: Major trading partners may retaliate against U.S. tariff policies, but there is confidence in American resilience and unity.

• Political Unity: Maintaining cohesion within the Republican Party is crucial for passing necessary economic reforms and countering internal sabotage.

• Long-Term Vision: Emphasis on rebuilding American industrial capacity and leadership in emerging technologies, such as nuclear power and AI, to secure future economic dominance.

This episode provides insightful analysis into the evolving conservative approach to trade policy, the complexities of implementing tariffs, and the broader implications for American politics and the economy.

Transcript

[Glenn Beck]

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[Kevin Roberts]

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[Kevin Roberts]

And now, Ablaze Media podcast. Hello, America. You know we've been fighting every single day. We push back against the lies, the censorship, the nonsense of the mainstream media that they're trying to feed you. We work tirelessly to bring you the unfiltered truth because you deserve it. But to keep this fight going, we need you right now. Would you take a moment and rate and review the Glenn Beck podcast? Give us five stars and leave a comment. Because every single review helps us break through Big Tech's algorithm to. To reach more Americans who need to hear the truth. This isn't a podcast. This is a movement. And you're part of it. A big part of it. So if you believe in what we're doing, you want more people to wake up, help us push this podcast to the top rate, review, share together, we'll make a difference. And thanks for standing with us. Now, let's get to work. Well, happy Liberation Week. How are the Trump tariffs going to impact you? Are we going to see the end of China's flow of fentanyl across our border and a return to American industry? Or is, worst case scenario, kickstart an unwinnable trade war with everyday Americans suffering the most casualties? My next guest has hope, and I hope he's right. Welcome, American historian, political strategist, and of course, the evil Mastermind behind Project 2025. Hey, ho. He must go. President of Heritage Foundation, Kevin Roberts. Welcome, man.

[Glenn Beck]

It's so awesome to be here.

[Kevin Roberts]

I know. It's so great to have you. So great to have you. You're like a brother from another mother, I think. Except maybe you might be the evil twin.

[Glenn Beck]

I think some people might think that.

[Kevin Roberts]

Oh, I know. I want to talk about you being protested. Hey, ho. Kevin must go. We'll talk about that in a minute. Let's talk about what's happening this week. Heritage has been the thought leader for Republicans and for the conservatives forever, forever been against tariffs. That's changed. Why?

[Glenn Beck]

Bottom line up front. Because when you have smart people which we do at Heritage. While the dogmas of the past are very important, they're instructive. The most important thing to pay attention to is what's going on right now. And the diagnosis of President Trump and his cabinet about what's going on right now with the deterioration of communities, the destruction of manufacturing towns, of basically the manufacturing capacity of the United States is spot on. Correct. And so what we have said this week is we can support tariffs, particularly if they're reciprocal tariffs and they are targeted on the worst violators. What the White House has announced in this initial version, I think there's going to be modifications to this is broader than that. We think that it would be very prudent to do this incrementally to really implement the reciprocal tariffs first with a zealous focus on China, so that regular business people who are huge Trump supporters, I'm not talking like the Fortune 10 guys, I couldn't care less about them, really. We're talking about friends of ours who scraped just like you did to build your business. They told me, just as on this trip to visit you, Glenn, that they're with Trump and they're with the idea of the reciprocity. But something with such a broad brush might be more damaging than the President intends. And Heritage, to sum up here, wants to support the sort of middle of the road position. And the reason we're able to do that is because we read reality truthfully. Something has to change with the economic system.

[Kevin Roberts]

So I agree with that. I want to go deeper on that. But I want to tell you, I got a. I got an email last night at 11 o'clock from a friend who said I'm going to be out of business. I got an email at 5am this morning from another friend who owns a car dealership. Wildly successful, but all of his stuff are imports. And he said, Glenn, all day yesterday with the tariffs, he said all I did was field calls from people who said, cancel my order. He said, I am going to be out of business. He's like, I don't know. They're both huge Trump fans. I don't know what to do. What do you tell those people?

[Glenn Beck]

Well, I'll tell you and your audience what I just mentioned to this new friend of mine who's small business guy in the oil field services company. People who may not be audience members of this show would think, oh, he's big oil. No, this guy pulled himself up from his bootstraps. He happens to buy all of his equipment from China. He's done that from the Same supplier since 1995. Three time Trump voter, Trump donor. This guy is with him and also with the president and vice president and you and me on the diagnosis of the problem, which is that this economic system has to change. But what he's saying is there is no American factory where he can get that product. He's happy to build one, but he needs a few years to do it. And so he said, kevin, when I leave this lunch with you, I'm going at this small business to pay a $256,000 tariff bill that was retroactive. And he said, I still love Trump. I'm still with him. But he said, who do I send that cost to? He said, the people who are even smaller businesses, very few, very small oil and gas wells. And he said they're going to go out of business and there's going to be a chain reaction that's very unintended here. And this goes back to the first question you asked me, Glenn. This is why at Heritage, we think if there's a modified focus on, on reciprocal tariffs that focuses on China and the other bad actors, but there's a ramp, there's a timeline for these small businesses who are very aligned with trying to fix this problem, to be able to adjust, just like your friends, I think we can get there. Because just as important as the economics and sort of the political economy argument here is sustaining the political will for this administration, which is doing so many other good things.

[Kevin Roberts]

So I have been against tariffs my whole life. It's not one of, it's not something in my wheelhouse that I always talk about. But I have found myself, as I had to explain this to the audience earlier today on my radio program, I find myself in a unique situation to where everything we have been doing doesn't work. It doesn't work. This. The world is being managed into decline. Every single country in the west is being managed into decline so they can start something brand new. And we all know it. It's not an, it's a World Economic Forum. It is not a conspiracy. So that's one path. Let's just let everything down easy so there's not a great collapse and it will fold into this and it'll be a smooth transition. That's not me. I don't want that. And the only person that has had the will to and has had the ability to talk to people and say we must do this is Donald Trump. And, you know, running a business and usually surrounded with really smart, good people. But I'm a risk taker you know, and I'll notice that. Yeah. And I'll walk into a room with my whole staff and I'll say, okay, forget everything. You know, we're going to do this. And everybody in my office will go, good God, Glenn, no. What? No, no, no. Let me explain, and then I'll explain it. And some of them will still agree, but when they leave the office, we are all one team. And I feel like on election day. He was not subtle about this. Tariffs are my favorite word on election day. We all walked out of the office going, okay, you're the boss. He sees something. He has. He's the best negotiator I've ever seen. He's a businessman, and he's one of the first presidents. In fact, I think the first president since Reagan that I actually trust loves America as much as me. Not in it for himself, in it for the country. And so I am sitting here going, I'm not going to give him a pass forever. I mean, a year from now, if we are really struggling because of this, I'm not going to be saying the same thing, but I think we have to let the chef cook the meal. We came into the restaurant. We came because we knew he was the chef. Let him cook the meal.

[Glenn Beck]

You know, if you didn't have such a promising day job, we would make you a senior distinguished fellow at Heritage because you just summarized exactly where we are.

[Kevin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Glenn Beck]

And look, we're independent of the administration. There might be some things eventually we disagree with. We have a difference of opinion about the tactics that are being used right now regarding the universal tariff.

[Kevin Roberts]

Yes.

[Glenn Beck]

But that can be true. And it's a quibble right now, because I think it's going to change anyway. Because the larger thing is also true. And the larger thing is what you explained, which is Donald Trump's great love for this country, a cabinet that I think is the best assembled in modern history.

[Kevin Roberts]

I think maybe since either Lincoln or. First time I saw the cabinet altogether, I said, look at the brains. I haven't seen this since the founding era.

[Glenn Beck]

I think you're right.

[Kevin Roberts]

I mean, it's crazy.

[Glenn Beck]

I think only Washington's and Lincolns rival them.

[Kevin Roberts]

Yes.

[Glenn Beck]

And I think, by the way, the star out of this, and no disrespect to anyone else involved in the administration, is going to be Scott Besant. Because given Scott's success with the capital markets, and he is making the point that you just made, preaching some calm. There might be some economic choppiness for an economic quarter or two, but to Your point? Anything that's beyond that signals that this isn't incremental enough in the change. And I think as conservatives, we can recognize that the current status quo, the status quo is just not working. That basically what leaders of the west, especially in Davos, are telling us is we're putting the patient, which is Western civilization, on palliative care. We're putting it in hospice. And you stupid little people just need to get along with it.

[Kevin Roberts]

Right?

[Glenn Beck]

But by the way, we're gonna do that and we, the elites, are gonna make a hell of a lot of money on you. And what Donald Trump is saying to be polite is we're drawing a bright red line in the sand. We're not doing that anymore.

[Kevin Roberts]

And to finish your analogy, he just did a monologue on this yesterday. He's telling us he's the only doctor who is telling us, you have cancer and you're going to die unless I take these steps. So you have a choice, go into hospice or if somebody else has something better, that's great. But this doctor is the only doctor telling me the truth that I know. This is over. It's over.

[Glenn Beck]

It's true. And forgive me for continuing the analogy, what he's saying is just like when you get cancer treatment, even though the prognosis may be very good, there's going to be a little bit of short term pain, the treatment is going to be a little painful. I think the key thing is that we give him the opportunity to make, to do the treatment so that in a year this is working. And what we're saying at Heritage is focus on the reciprocity, focus on the trade abusers, starting with China, and continue to communicate about fairness, equaling free trade. And then you're going to keep the center. Right, that elected him together.

[Kevin Roberts]

Okay, so here's, here's the part of this that bothers me. Tariffs will not do the job. Tariffs alone will not do the job. You have to have not a continuation of the tax cuts we got eight years ago. We have to have actual tax cuts for people who are going to build businesses and hire people and a massive, I mean, chainsaw to regulation. If he doesn't get those next two pieces in quickly. Tariffs will have, if we're lucky, they'll have an effect. That's not negative, but they will not have the impact that they need to have until he can unleash and take all the regulators off of this engine. Let it run. When are we going to see that? And I don't think that's him. I think that's Congress.

[Glenn Beck]

That's Congress.

[Kevin Roberts]

When are we going to see that?

[Glenn Beck]

Well, I keep being told by congressional leaders, who I'll just describe the best of intentions to, that it's going to happen by Easter. But you know better than anybody in the country that not only are we close to Easter, but it's not going to happen by Easter.

[Kevin Roberts]

It's not going to happen.

[Glenn Beck]

And especially given your point about, and it's so true about the tariffs can't be standalone. They're never going to have whatever positive benefit they will have without being done in conjunction with deregulation, with cutting the budget, with the other treatment that you would give a patient with cancer. Now, I think the best would be by Memorial Day. And the problem with that is there will be several weeks for the media to completely misconstrue about the best aspects of a reciprocal tariff. Hopefully, this is an encouragement to congressional Republicans to get with the program, to get this reconciliation bill done along the line to what you're saying. But this really key, especially for the fuzzy math that's happening in Congress right now, to really cut the budget and to really pass real tax cuts.

[Kevin Roberts]

Thank you. I mean, what I voted for was a guy who had a great team around him. Best I've ever seen. And not just Republicans, you know, Elon, rfk, Tulsi, Gabbard. Okay, good team here. All working towards the same thing. We all love our country. Let's not destroy it. And I don't know what it's going to take for these Republicans in Congress to get to become awake. What is it going to take before they get it? You can't. You have the Democrats right now dismantling or trying to. Everything he's trying to do with the court system. All that is, none of that's real. All that is is delay, delay, delay, delay, delay. Donald Trump. What makes him so effective in the last few weeks is boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You're constantly firing. You can't keep up. What the hell is Congress doing? Their delay, delay, delay. He's got it in. When is he gonna say, I've had enough of you Congress. I've had enough of you Republicans who say you're gonna do stuff. Don't you see? The patient is critical. I'm here. The body is open up. I've got blood on my hands right now. I need the extra units of blood now.

[Glenn Beck]

He needs to say that right now.

[Kevin Roberts]

Right now, right now.

[Glenn Beck]

And look, I think that a couple of key figures in this drama have been really good Speaker Mike Johnson, I think, has been a real stalwart on this. He was beset with a truly ridiculous ploy by a member of his conference on proxy voting that ended up the only way for the speaker to handle this was to not have votes this week just because of the rules of Congress. It's foolishness. Like that political game playing for cliques and campaign funds by members of the Republican Party that have gotten in the way of it. Only to your point, Glenn, only Donald Trump can break that. He needs to take the verve with which he announced these tariffs yesterday and apply that to Congress getting this done now. And the beautiful thing about that, beyond the substance, is that politically, those on the political right who are Trump supporters but still not sold on this tariff regime will say, okay, I can be a little calmer about these tariffs if I see that they're being in conjunction, being done in conjunction with deregulation, tax cuts and cutting the budget. It's brilliant politics. All that to say. I bet he does it pretty soon.

[Kevin Roberts]

I hope so. He has to.

[Glenn Beck]

He must.

[Kevin Roberts]

He has to. And you know, the nicest thing about this thing is he's not stupid. He knows I said the other day, this is as dangerous to his presidency as him in August standing in open fields and talking to, talking to supporters in open fields. That was dangerous for him personally. That'd get him killed. What he's doing right now is that dangerous to his presidency. And if, if it doesn't go right, he's not stupid. He knows I only have a certain amount of time. Those midterm elections are coming. Right. And if our economy is not back roaring, he's not going to make it. He's not. He will be a lame duck.

[Glenn Beck]

And he knows that almost, almost worse than the disagreement that some people have with the universal tariffs. And let's be honest, that's what he has articulated yesterday. It's not what Heritage is supportive of, which is a reciprocal regime.

[Kevin Roberts]

People argue against a reciprocal.

[Glenn Beck]

I don't know how you can. That's why when we started talking about, at Heritage, to your point, about your team always speaking with one voice, we do that same thing at Heritage. Sometimes it can be a little messy, always very collegial, but we let everyone say their piece.

[Kevin Roberts]

Yes, yes.

[Glenn Beck]

And so for us even, even to get there earlier this week, took a process, but we started saying, who can argue against this?

[Kevin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Glenn Beck]

Well, the people who argue against it, they're either really tied to what they think is the success of an older regime and they've not caught up with the times or they have a vested interest in the regime. So that's why I think it's really safe political ground for the President to focus on that.

[Kevin Roberts]

Right. It is the free market in a distorted way, but not from our distortion. If you want to put 5% on me, fine, I put 5% on you. Now we have a free market on your turf. You want to go to zero, let's go to zero. But no.

[Glenn Beck]

And yet what the folks who are saying you can't support reciprocal tariffs at Heritage is they have faith that we can have a one way approach to this, that the United States can say we are free trade absolutists even when other people are are imposing all these tariffs. It's nonsense. It's also economic nonsense and it's that kind of stuff that has meant that our manufacturing sector, along with overregulation and other ridiculous policies has become damaged and we do have to resurrect that. But as the vice president said at an event at Heritage on Tuesday, he said, folks, let's remember this is going to take a generation to sort itself out. This is why we have to get going with it right now.

[Kevin Roberts]

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[Jevon]

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[Kevin Roberts]

All right, back to Kevin. So let me ask you, Stu on the air with me said today, he said, so, Glenn, what's his plan? Because I keep hearing jobs are going to return, which I want to talk to you about, that jobs are gonna return. But then I also hear reciprocal tariffs. Well, they don't work together. You're not gonna have the reciprocal tariff and the jobs coming back. So what's our real goal? I have an answer to that. What's your answer?

[Glenn Beck]

I think in the medium or long term, some jobs might come back. But I acknowledge your point. I think the goal is to reset the sort of Davos, Brussels kind of New York driven economic system in the world in which you have to bend your knee at the altar of globalization at the expense of American interests. And Trump's trying to completely upend that and bring people to the negotiating table. I am convinced, Glenn, that the purpose of this might be heartfelt from Trump's economic philosophy on reciprocal tariffs, but it's really about fairness. It's really common sense. He's just trying to get every other country who's benefited on the backs of Americans to acknowledge that and come play ball with us. And he's confident enough in our ability to withstand the short term economic pain that he'll be able to get us there politically and that the jobs will return because American investors will say, I've got confidence, I've got certainty, clarity enough to be able to invest.

[Kevin Roberts]

So one of the things that I felt important to express today again on my program is the jobs that are coming back. It's not the steel mill in Pittsburgh. If we rebuild Pittsburgh and make the same steel mills, we're just going to create a second disaster in Pittsburgh. And it cannot be those jobs, the jobs we need right now. We need people building the new nuclear power plants. We need our government. Here's something our government can do. Build a cloud fortress. I don't want you doing anything on the inside of that building. I want the private sector to do all the cloud servers, let them lose money when there's a new server farm that needs to be built. But I want castles protecting all of that infrastructure. There are things that we need to do that look over the horizon, because in five years you know, you look at what's happening with the Pentagon and they're talking about, you know, well, we've got a new F47 coming out in 10 years. In 10 years. In 10 years you may not need to use aluminum, steel, wires, anything. You don't know what the world's going to be like in 10 years. Stop the long term planning, just build the infrastructure for what you know is going to be there. Does Trump get that?

[Glenn Beck]

I think he gets it, actually. I know he gets it and I know that his key advisors get it. And I want to underscore the point that you make because I work with a lot of smart people and they, over the last several months have convinced me that what you said is about the new nuclear power plants.

[Kevin Roberts]

Yes.

[Glenn Beck]

Is the single most important thing that we can do economically from the standpoint of our government. It actually will help to foster, help to cultivate the kinds of new jobs that are very likely to come to the United States if we don't allow the Chinese Communist Party to continue to lap us. And it really is a revitalization of the energy industry. It can include fossil fuels and all the other renewal or the renewables. But the really key thing is the new nuclear because we're not going to be able to, to implement the AI possibilities that are so beneficial to the economy without that energy.

[Kevin Roberts]

And if you don't have that, you have nothing. That's right, you are, you might as well be. And no offense to Brazil, but I, you know, I didn't grow up in Brazil. I like America, I like being the leader. You have to have that energy and China is building it like crazy. And I think it's the new thorium, right, New thorium plants. They're safer than already the safest form of energy ever devised by man, nuclear power. But it's much safer, it's smaller. And that's where the government can help unleash, unleash the private sector, support the things that are building. True. If I hear one more thing about infrastructure and we're going to build roads, I'm going to lose my mind. I'm going to lose my mind. You go to other countries, their airports are beautiful. We're sitting with Soviet air, you know, style air traffic control rooms where they're passing, oh, here's a plane, let me get it to you on paper. What are you crazy? If we're gonna pass things, let's actually do it with people who know what the future looks like.

[Glenn Beck]

And to that point, it's important for us to Acknowledge the worst case scenario. It's also important to aspire to the best case scenario. And I just want to paint that picture for a moment with you because we're not surprising, though. I know this is why we couldn't talk before we went on. We had to have this conversation. Now, what you're talking about the new nuclear and government's role in that, which is to get the regulation out of the way because the capital is there. I mean, you know, some of these same people, they're ready to roll with this, get the government out of the way. That alone. But then secondly, they can also, the government can make sure that they're really secure, that they can't be infiltrated by particularly the CCP or that do that. Do the reciprocal tariffs, do the deregulation continue with doge, pass the tax cut, cut trillions of dollars from the federal budget. And guess what? Even if the next two economic quarters are choppy, guaranteed history will tell you the United States in a year is going to be ascended again. And the really key thing politically going into the midterms, the naysayers right now, who, unlike you and me, who are offering some constructive criticism as friends of the administration on the universe, universal tariffs, you know, these people don't want this to succeed, succeed at all. They will have to say, this is in fact, the golden age of America. That's right.

[Kevin Roberts]

There you do just what you said. We actually take our place back prior to the Progressive Era, to when we were the first building trains across continents, when we were actually leading the world, you know, coming up with electricity, lighting up cities. You know, Paris did it before we did. We're the ones that gave the world a great white way, you know what I mean? And I don't mean that in a racist way. You know what I mean?

[Glenn Beck]

But you have to make that.

[Kevin Roberts]

Yeah, you have to. Have to, because most people are like great white. Wait, what does that mean?

[Glenn Beck]

Beck and Robertson, there must be, you know, white Christian nationalism.

[Kevin Roberts]

So. But we have that opportunity. And I, I'm so glad in looking at his cabinet. I know they know that Elon Musk, he's gotta be. I mean, he doesn't golf. He's in that golf cart with Donald Trump all the time. He's gotta be like, hey, I was just bored. I was just thinking about this. You know, what's right on the horizon? I know they're having those conversations. Donald Trump's uncle. Do you know. Do you know what Donald Trump's uncle did? So you know who, Eli, you know who Nikolai Tesla was sure, okay, Nikolai Tesla, first part of his life, great guy coming up with stuff where he's just like, I want to give it to the world free because it's going to change everything. He's screwed by Edison so many times that about halfway through his life he's like. And he goes dark. He goes really dark. And he starts designing things like death rays, things that will shake buildings apart. I mean, really scary stuff to where the government was like, I think we need to have somebody around him. So they put George H.W. bush's father in, unbeknownst to Tesla that he was working for the government, put him in as his private secretary. When Tesla dies, they need somebody to look at all these plans and say which one should be classified, which ones shouldn't be, which ones can we send back over to his homeland? Which ones do we need to keep under lock and key? They got the smartest guy they could find from mit. It was Donald Trump's uncle.

[Glenn Beck]

What a small world. I heard the President praise his uncle for being the smartest guy he's ever. I didn't know why. Yeah, interesting.

[Kevin Roberts]

Isn't that crazy?

[Glenn Beck]

And it's instructive about the opportunity we have. I think God has given us the.

[Kevin Roberts]

Opportunity and him being able to recognize that kind of thinking and that kind.

[Glenn Beck]

Of future and ideological strictures off to the side. I mean, Trump's a pragmatist. I do know him to be a conservative. Maybe not as dogmatic as you and I might be prone to be, which could be both a compliment and a friendly criticism, but it is what it is. He loves this country. And I think if people remember that, maybe they can reignite the trust we ought to have in him because of the love he has for this country. Being a brilliant CEO and assembling to your point, Glenn, the smartest men and women I have seen in certainly my career in politics as a historian of this country, I think, at least since Lincoln's cabinet. And this is why, even though I would have rolled out the tariff regime differently and they may still land on that, I actually think it's going to be okay. I agree with the Treasury Secretary, Scott Besant, that let's be calm, let's not think the sky's falling because there was one bad day on the stock market. And let's also remember the stock market isn't the economy. Let's be focused on the well being of fellow Americans.

[Kevin Roberts]

For once. I showed it again. We are like brothers. I started my show today with I want to tell you what the tariffs mean. But everybody today is going to talk about the stock market. You care about the price of eggs and your parts to fix your car, all of these things. Yes, there's a place to worry about the stock market because hopefully people will invest and they'll have money in their 401k. But that's not right now. That's not right now. Right now is what is this going to do to my meal? What is this going to do for me? Trying to, you know, buy clothing or anything, repair my car. That's a really big concern.

[Glenn Beck]

It's huge. And what Donald Trump has reminded us of, what JD Vance personifies is that's conservatism.

[Kevin Roberts]

Yes.

[Glenn Beck]

Not this other stuff. And to that point, I had a friend concerned. He said, kevin, the stock market's down 1500 points as we sit here talking, what should I do? I said, buy low. It's going higher, he said. When I said, I have no idea, I'm just a lowly historian, but it's going to go higher at some point because all of this is going to work. The administration's going to do the tweaking and modifying. Keep in mind this, I think, is all set up to be recalibrated, waiting for our supposed allies to come to the negotiating table. And just imagine on that point, if I may, Glenn, the European Union leader, the most protectionist racket on the planet, complaining about this tariff regime. I know this is the kind of thing that Trump is right sizing.

[Kevin Roberts]

So let's talk about European Union here for a second. They absolutely believe because they've done it to their own countries. I mean, Germany has no industrial base practically at all. Now. That's insane. I mean, you know, because I have a memory, that's kind of a good thing, you know, in other ways, that's a really bad thing. They are very good at making things. And that's all being. That's all being dismantled entirely. They actually believe the best thing is to just slowly put this dog down until we can write, we can raise up the new thing. The people don't want it and they know that otherwise they'd be out saying, here's what we're doing. But they're not, they're denying all of it, you know, until a conspiracy theory, until it's provably not. Those people, though, if they actually believe that that's so insane, they might just say, you know what, let's go for a trade war. It'll speed it up and we'll get what we want. You know, we're not dealing. It's like the Democrats and the Republicans, all the lawfare. That's not legitimate. They don't actually mean those things. Their intent is to slow everything down and stop it and grind it to a halt. That's sabotage. We have the same kind of partners in some countries that are supposedly friendly to us. What gives you confidence that they're not going to do that?

[Glenn Beck]

Well, I think that many, if not most of those countries in Europe are.

[Kevin Roberts]

Going to try to stop it, to.

[Glenn Beck]

Sabotage, to participate in the sabotage. Because nothing since Trump was elected in 2016 has gone according to their plan other than, quote, unquote, defeating him in 2020.

[Kevin Roberts]

Yes.

[Glenn Beck]

And I know this because of all the work that Heritage does in your trying to revitalize conservatism. And of course, it's our kind of conservatism where people are actually in charge, not the squishy kind of nonsense where you're prioritizing the GDP over the well being of everyday, hardworking people. But to your point, I think they're going to try. In fact, there are already signs just 24 hours in after this tariff announcement that the EU is going to do that. But what gives me confidence that we will prevail over that is not just because of the competence of Trump and his administration and their awareness that that's what they're going to do, but also that regular people in the United States and in these European countries have had enough. They may not win every election, but they won enough. In fact, they won a couple that have been overturned that it's really deteriorated the power of the EU Brussels regime. This is why it's imperative that President Trump and his administration really get a detailed plan on reciprocal tariffs going. Because it's so hard to argue against that, both in substance and in the rhetoric. I think that's the place to land this plane. And I'm going to keep talking about it until we see it happen at Heritage, because this regime that they've announced yesterday, in other words, makes them more vulnerable to the sabotage that the European Union and some other nefarious actors around the world are going to do. Just in terms of the geopolitics of it. I think the administration needs to be just a click more savvy about what they can do to shoot them in their kneecaps. Figuratively.

[Kevin Roberts]

I think that's one of the things. It's really the only real error I think he has made this time around is Canada is the biggest example.

[Glenn Beck]

I agree you had Trudeau out.

[Kevin Roberts]

You had that over. Over. And I don't know why. I mean, I appreciated the 51st governor. I really did.

[Glenn Beck]

No one deserved it more.

[Kevin Roberts]

No one. Couldn't have happened to a nicer communist, but we just shot ourselves in the foot, you know? Now we're gonna get the other guy who was. What's his name?

[Glenn Beck]

Carney. And he's a product of the U. And look, as much as we disagree with him, the guy is no dummy. Yeah, he is a savage.

[Kevin Roberts]

Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. And. And it's the same Kamala Harris thing. Nobody really voted for him. Nobody voted for him.

[Glenn Beck]

There's a trend here.

[Kevin Roberts]

Yeah, there is a trend, but we can't. We can't do that. What. Tell me about Mexico and Canada on this. Where do you think we're going with that?

[Glenn Beck]

I agree with you on how the politics of this has cut in Canada, and I think it was a tactical error. I thought it was funny at first, but it was other media type said. Kevin, I'm gonna force you to say something. You have a difference of opinion with. With President Trump. And it's always been the Canada thing. Because it would be nice to have Pierre Poliev as the Prime Minister of Canada. Interestingly, I never thought I would say this about any socialist, especially the socialist president of Mexico. She understands Trump, and she's been playing ball. So she already, to the extent she can. Being governed by the cartels has helped with some of the southern border issues, some of the fentanyl trafficking. I'm not suggesting she's perfect, but she recognized politically there is a win there for her country and for her. But the problem with the tariffs is that it actually empowers her to have more leverage. And that's why if you're emphasizing fairness and reciprocity, we're on much stronger political ground where you can isolate those countries, whether it be Mexico or Canada or the Netherlands, who don't want to play ball. We inherited see this plain as day. Sometimes we're wrong about things. Hopefully we have the humility to always say that on this. I just see it so clearly that if the president can stick to that, he actually builds stronger friendships with countries around the world and you eliminate the possibility of the sabotage that the EU wants to lead.

[Kevin Roberts]

I just had Liz Trusson there last week.

[Glenn Beck]

She knows this story.

[Kevin Roberts]

Yes, she does. She said, England is a failed state. The prime minister, former prime minister, said, my country is a failed state.

[Glenn Beck]

And not just any country. Yeah, England, the single most important country, ironically, for why we have the American Republic. Think about what that means for the Western civilization. But there's a lesson there. With all due respect to the former prime minister, I love her. As you know, we have her at Heritage often she was right and moved too fast. Not because moving fast was the wrong policy call, it was the wrong political call. And there's a lesson in how this tariff rollout has happened this week from the Trump administration. It's too much, too soon without tilling the soil politically, economically, along with all of these other changes that need to happen, the tax cuts, the deregulation doge and so on, to be able to continue to close the sale with the American people, which Trump is the master of.

[Kevin Roberts]

Back with more with Kevin in just a second. First, let's talk about emergency emergency preparedness. We live in a world that is constantly changing in ways we don't see coming. But one thing that will always remain is the need to be ready right now. Some emergency preparedness vitals include emergency contacts, a place you know for evaluation and evacuation routes and evaluation meeting places, a get, get out of town bag, a go bag with important documents, flashlights, batteries, non perishable food. And of course you really should consider having a Jace case as part of that equipment as well. I cannot recommend this highly enough if you're the type of person who wants to be prepared prepared when disaster strikes or if you just are somebody who goes on vacation and you know one of your kids is going to get sick and in the middle of the night you're going to be looking for a CVS that's open and a doctor that can prescribe something. The Jace case is that personalized emergency kit that contains essential antibiotics and medications that treat the most common and deadly bacterial infections. It provides five life saving antibiotics for emergency use. They even have Ivermectin in case you have a horse that gets sick. Jase.com J-A S-E.com Enter the giveaway or purchase your own Jace case. Promo code is Beck at checkout. Get a discount on your order. Promo code beck J-A-E.com Let me just go through because look at the clock. We're going to be out of time. Tell me about Pam Bond. Pondi. I met her. I don't know her. She's one of the few in the administration. I just don't know. I have been so underwhelmed with the Justice Department. I really expected to see the Justice Department at least start turning their own people in and saying you broke the law, you're going to jail. I mean what we found out about the FBI and the intelligence community just yesterday about the Hunter Biden laptop stuff. We now have all of the proof, we have all, all of the transcripts on it. When are we going to start seeing people go to jail?

[Glenn Beck]

It's a fair question. And I agree with wanting to see people be in jail. And I would have thought that we would have seen that by now. Me too. And we were disappointed at Heritage that all of the fanfare over the Epstein files sort of landed like a lead balloon. And I'm not quite sure why that happened. But I'll answer your question directly about the Attorney General herself. I think she's awesome. And in fact, I saw her earlier this week at the swearing in ceremony of the number three of the Department of Justice. And that is the point that I want to make. She's been understaffed. The pace of getting these appointments confirmed has been very slow. It's always slow. It's particularly slow. And she's understaffed at a time that the doj, more than any other time in American history, must be upended. And I gather upended, informed speculation here, but mostly speculation she's waiting to get the full team in place to be able to do that. Her track record would suggest, and she herself, great woman of virtue, would suggest that it's going to happen. But I thought it might have happened by now.

[Kevin Roberts]

Yeah, okay. I just don't know her.

[Glenn Beck]

I still have confidence in her. But I understand why you're asking the question.

[Kevin Roberts]

Good, good, good. What have you been most impressed with? And least impressed with? I guess Canada, you're going to say.

[Glenn Beck]

But yeah, at least impressed. The Canada thing. But it's a quibble. I mean, it really is relatively minor in the big scheme of things. Most impressed with after the quality of people in the cabinet, the pace, the pace of change. And that's why at Heritage, we're giving the President some grace on an announcement that's a little bit different than what we thought. It's going to be okay. And they know that.

[Kevin Roberts]

Been breathtaking.

[Glenn Beck]

It has been. And then after that, the Vice President already had very high expectations. But J.D. vance is a generational thinker. He's a visionary. Even people who disagree with him or don't quite know him well yet, when they get the opportunity to spend some time with him or really think about what he's saying, he's doing the kind of forward looking thinking that you specialize in, you have in your career. He's the kind of guy bringing in. Is the guy bringing in A lot of these, not necessarily doctrinaire conservative voices, but people who love America, to be able to build the America of 2040 and 2050 rather than fight the political battles of 1985.

[Kevin Roberts]

How is he on the. Because I hear people say one of two things on conservatives. One of two things. You know, he's in with all the Silicon Valley people and the Silicon Valley people, they don't love America. I hear that, or I hear he's fantastic. How is he on the founding documents? How is he on what our true root is?

[Glenn Beck]

I think he has a phenomenal understanding, and it would be good to get great Professor Beck to do an interview with him. I will say this. On the Silicon thing, I know why people ask that. I had that question, too, years ago, but it would be like me. Well, Kevin was a professor, went to University of Texas, trained by a bunch of libs. How can we trust him? Maybe people thought or think that, and most people would say that's not, in fact, something to be worried about. And So I know J.D. vance personally and have seen him in action politically. He was at Heritage a few days ago, and color me biased, because I think there's a man of tremendous virtue. He loves this country. He knows the founding documents. He maps to them rhetorically, but also to the specific question about Silicon Valley. A lot of those guys and gals are really with us more than we might recognize. And I'm a late comer to realizing that, and I tell them that. But we ought to have a certain wariness about the whole group, because if they get inside the administration, like the worst ones get inside the administration. This is what Zuckerberg has been trying to do. We ought not think that they're our friends.

[Kevin Roberts]

They're not our friends. And you know what? I don't have anything against Jeff Bezos, but he's so hepped up on steroids now. And I mean, he's like, you know, it's, it's, it's a little frightening. And, and some of the other people are not people I would necessarily trust. But there are good people that are. There are in the administration. The ones that I worry about are the ones around the administration that you see.

[Glenn Beck]

But it's always the hangers on, you know, whether it's those folks or the hangers on in Washington around members of the Senate.

[Kevin Roberts]

I'm glad to hear you say that. Let me ask you, you have talked about a second American Revolution. Liz Truss said to me, this time we might be on the right side. I appreciate it. I said, well, we may not let you in. You burned our White House down, and we don't let things go. But what does that mean to you? Because I think we're actually in it right now. I think that's what happened that people don't really understand. It was a peaceful revolution. It wasn't just an election. And he is now going. I mean, I think he called it Liberation Day to hearken back to World War II, because that's when all this crap started. All the things that were happening, you know, that are not working now started after Liberation Day. And. And so now it's kind of like a liberation day away from all the things that had to be done back then but no longer work. Do you think that's accurate?

[Glenn Beck]

100%.

[Kevin Roberts]

Oh, wow.

[Glenn Beck]

And what I mean when I say second American revolution is precisely what you're talking about. But to be one step more precise, I think about Alexander Hamilton when he leaves Yorktown as Washington's aide de camp and the war's over, a couple years of peace negotiations, as you know. Well, goes back to being a practicing attorney in New York City. What does he do? He and his wife get really involved in building institutions, little institutions. Lawyers, associations, social clubs, institutions that are less formal than schools, although they participated in building some of those. But that happened up and down the states. In Virginia, huge upheaval. And it was an upheaval from the old light churches to the new light churches. That's an interesting institutional change in addition to being a theological one. For Virginians, that's the American Revolution implemented. The warfare was vital to winning the politics vital. But the real work always is in society and culture. And I think that's what we're doing now. November 2024 was Yorktown, and after this, Yorktown in 2024, each of us gets the opportunity, whether we have platforms like you and I do, or whether we have people who are in your audience or friends of heritage who aren't in the limelight but doing even more important work. To do what? To rebuild the American dream locally through our institutions. And that's why the administration cannot forget that as you're trying to repair the damage done to those people that you do so in a way that keeps them on the team. The politics of this are vital.

[Kevin Roberts]

Vital. The one thing I worry about is these are true, burn it down revolutionaries we're fighting against. I mean, the stuff, make no mistake. Well, they're terrorists. They are terrorists. If a Republican would have done one of the things that they have done to Tesla, my gosh, they're terrorists. I want to believe that's not the average Democrat, that the average Democrat on the fringes is starting to go. That's not good. And seeing maybe we don't have a plan, I'm hoping that's happening. Um, and it's not the average Democrat that is doing these things. However, you're just as guilty if you're just saying, I don't care about it. These people, if they're this now, when the. When the justice stuff or the district court stuff doesn't work, they're out. What's your feeling on making it without somebody just being deadly?

[Glenn Beck]

I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. You know that from firsthand experience with these people. I do too. All of us at Heritage do. For doing what? For speaking the truth. Cheerfully. Thankfully, it is a sliver of the left, but to your point.

[Kevin Roberts]

But it's the one that controls the.

[Glenn Beck]

Sort of normal Democrats need to take control of them, and it's their moral obligation to do so. And I think it's going to get worse before it gets better first. But secondly, it almost has to before those normal Democrats have the. The courage to say, we're going to take this over. And obviously we don't want any of this to happen. But I just think that it's likely that it will because the administration is just getting its real momentum when it comes to the reform that needs to happen. And what they're reforming are those centers of power for these people who have no other religion than government power. It's like telling you and me, you can't go to the church of your choice tomorrow.

[Kevin Roberts]

Are we getting rid of the Department of Education?

[Glenn Beck]

Absolutely, brother. It's why I'm in public policy. Heritage, the day that bill was signed in 1979, called for its elimination. And I'm so proud to be at Heritage, period. But all of us, it doesn't matter if we work on economic policy, foreign policy, when that executive order was signed, there's probably never been greater jubilation at Heritage. And the reason is that's how you kill the monster. It is not talking about individual people, even liberal teachers. I wish the best for them, but the monster that is the institutionalized hatred of this country. But most importantly, the reality that imprinted on our nature is self governance. And the Education Department hates that.

[Kevin Roberts]

Whenever you're in town, will you come back?

[Glenn Beck]

Every time, brother.

[Kevin Roberts]

I love it. Thank you.

[Glenn Beck]

Thanks.

[Kevin Roberts]

Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so.

[Glenn Beck]

It can be discovered by other people.

[Kevin Roberts]

Ra.