Ep 275 | Cracker Barrel CEO Finally Addresses ‘Woke’ Rebrand Controversy | The Glenn Beck Podcast

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Glenn Beck Program
Episode: Ep 275 | Cracker Barrel CEO Finally Addresses ‘Woke’ Rebrand Controversy
Date: November 22, 2025
Guests: Julie Messina (CEO, Cracker Barrel), Doug Hizzell (Senior VP, Store Operations)
Host: Glenn Beck
Theme: Deep dive into the controversial “woke” rebrand and remodeling strategy at Cracker Barrel, public backlash, and the company’s response and future direction.

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Main Theme Overview

In this episode, Glenn Beck confronts the CEO and Senior VP of Cracker Barrel about the company’s highly criticized attempt to modernize its image, which many customers saw as erasing cherished traditions and values. Amid cultural turmoil and accusations of going “woke,” Cracker Barrel’s leadership discusses what went wrong, addresses concerns over diversity initiatives and remodeling, and tries to set the record straight about the intent behind these changes. The conversation provides a rare, candid look at leadership grappling with public outrage, internal missteps, and the challenge of updating a beloved brand in polarized times.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cracker Barrel’s COVID Aftermath and Operational Struggles

• Staffing Crisis:
  • Post-pandemic, Cracker Barrel lost many long-serving staff, particularly older employees hesitant to return (04:05).
  • Hiring was so dire, management had “SWAT teams” recruiting for any available workers (05:22).
• Menu & Kitchen Mishaps:
  • Inexperience and turnover, along with attempts to draw new guests with complex menu changes, degraded both food quality and service (07:21).
  • Doug Hizzell: “We built a house on sand. We lost sight of the base foundation.” (07:58)

2. Declining Performance & Need for Change

• Financial Pressures:
  • The company had suffered “five or six years of TSR decline—Total Shareholder Return,” not enough guests, and shrinking throughput (09:55).
  • Average check at Cracker Barrel was $15—much lower than competitors, necessitating volume over price (10:25).
• Consultants & ‘New Coke’ Moment:
  • Consultants were brought in to analyze guest loss and competitive position (13:20).
  • Glenn repeatedly likened the rebrand to the failed “New Coke” fiasco—abandoning what people loved (15:46).

3. Logo, Branding, and Public Backlash

• Intent Behind the Rebrand:
  • Julie Messina: “The intent was not ideological. It was not to put the old version of Cracker Barrel in a box. That was not the intent whatsoever… We messed up.” (15:46-16:03)
  • The simplified logo was just “one piece of a system”—aimed at digital clarity, not erasing tradition (17:01).
  • Iconic signage (“the old timer”) was never meant to come down; removal wasn’t practical or planned. (16:18)
• What the Outrage Meant:
  • Glenn argued it wasn’t really about logos, but tradition and values. “It felt like you were saying you didn’t care about that... not the intent.” (17:32-17:53)
  • Julie Messina: “I’m sorry for the misunderstanding. I regret it. I don’t want people to be mad at us. My job is to make people love Cracker Barrel, right? Not be mad at Cracker Barrel.” (17:53)

4. Remodeling Stores—Comfort or Sterility?

• Addressing Physical Comfort:
  • Guests complained stores were too dark and seats uncomfortable—CEO cites example of patrons regularly bringing stadium cushions (22:21).
  • Remodeled stores increased booths, soft seating for comfort, but some concepts tested didn’t fit the traditional ambiance, e.g., black-and-white décor (24:00–25:09).
  • Only four stores saw the controversial remodel; changes are being reversed or “painted brown” to restore traditional feel (25:09).

5. DEI, “Woke” Accusations, and Culture Wars

• Clarifying Political Intent:
  • Glenn asks pointedly about Diversity, Equity & Inclusion initiatives and whether Cracker Barrel embraced making political statements (28:54-30:22).
  • Julie Messina: “No, it’s pancakes… We’re not trying to make political statements.” (30:22-30:24)
  • Doug Hizzell: “The logo was the straw that broke the camel’s back.” (30:27)
• Disconnect and Cumulative Frustration:
  • The rebrand controversy amplified guest frustration already present due to years of poor service, bad food, and menu confusion (27:24–30:27).

6. The Emotional Toll & A Genuine Apology

• Messina’s Vulnerability:
  • When asked if she was surprised not to be fired:
    • Julie Messina: “I feel like I’ve been fired by America…” (37:46)
  • She described the pain of carrying responsibility for 70,000 employees and the importance of preserving the company for both staff and guests (37:53-38:50).

7. Restoring the Brand and Moving Forward

• Messina is adamant about returning to the core: food quality, hospitality, and the nostalgia guests cherish.
• Julie Messina: “We don’t want to move the doilies around. We want to make it comfortable... for you to bring your friends.” (34:00-35:02)
• The episode ends on the notion that while mistakes were made, Cracker Barrel’s leadership “missed the mark” unintentionally, and are committed to fixing it.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Glenn Beck (On public outrage):
  “It felt like that to a lot of people, that you were just like, we don’t care about your values… And it—this is unfair to you—there was that one picture that was going around of the rainbow seats. That wasn’t you. That wasn’t part of this new deal. But was there DEI and all that crap going on in the company?” (27:24)

• Julie Messina (Apologizing):
  “Our guests have a right to be upset… We messed up. The intent was not ideological. It was not to put the old version of Cracker Barrel in a box. That was not the intent.” (15:46)

• Julie Messina (On backlash): “I feel like I’ve been fired by America.” (37:46)

• Glenn Beck (On cultural climate):
  “It feels like a corporate boardroom not understanding what people are feeling about the overall picture of their life.” (35:02)

• Julie Messina (On Cracker Barrel’s essence):
  “This is America’s story. This is our guest’s story… There’s nothing on the wall here that’s Cracker Barrel or the logo. This is Janice’s or Doug’s story.” (34:00)

• Doug Hizzell (On cumulative brand issues):
  “The logo was the straw that broke the camel’s back... From 2018 forward, we had frustrated them so many times with menu items. We had deleted horrible service, bad food. We couldn’t execute food out of the kitchen.” (30:27)

• Julie Messina (Setting the record):
  “I want to set the record straight. I want people to know that this is the brand they’ve always known and loved... when you walk in here, it feels like Cracker Barrel… The food you love that’s made by hand by people who care—it’s still here.” (36:44-37:29)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:58 – Pandemic struggles: hiring, turnover, new menu stress
• 09:34 – Company’s financial/traffic decline explained
• 13:20 – The hiring of consultants & approach to revitalization
• 15:46 – Glenn confronts the CEO about the rebranding: “Can you walk me through how that happened?”
• 17:40 – Messina: “They were saying our values, our traditions. That’s what Cracker Barrel represents to us.”
• 21:50 – Remodeling intentions: “Was it the goal to get rid of all of this?”
• 22:44 – Memorable story: guests bringing their own seat cushions
• 29:07 – DEI and company culture addressed directly
• 32:35 – The “grandma’s house” analogy and emotional resonance
• 35:02 – Messina: “We don’t want to move the doilies around…”
• 37:46 – Messina: “I feel like I’ve been fired by America.”
• 39:15 – Glenn: “Most genuine thing I have heard from somebody in your position…”

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Episode Takeaway

This episode stands out for its rawness and depth: a major American brand airing its wounds and seeking redemption after a cultural miscalculation. Glenn Beck doesn’t pull punches, but Julie Messina’s candidness, combined with a clear desire to preserve what customers love, reframes a national controversy as a lesson in humility, stewardship, and the challenge of change amid culture wars. The message: mistakes were made, but Cracker Barrel’s core—the food, the stories, and the feeling of coming home—remains unshaken.

Useful for:

• Anyone interested in branding, PR crises, culture wars, or corporate leadership
• Fans or critics of Cracker Barrel seeking the “real story” from the source
• Business leaders facing the challenge of modernizing beloved institutions

Transcript

[Julie Messina]

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[Doug Hizzell]

And now. Ablaze Media Podcast.

[Glenn Beck]

Hello America. You know we've been fighting every single day. We push back against the lies, the censorship, the nonsense of the mainstream media that they're trying to feed you. We work tirelessly to bring you the unfiltered truth because you deserve it. But to keep this fight going, we need you right now. Would you take a moment and rate and review the Glenn Beck podcast? Give us five stars and leave a comment. Because every single review helps us break through Big Tech's algorithm to reach more Americans who need to hear the truth. This isn't a podcast. This is a movement. And you're part of it. A big part of it. So if you believe in what we're doing, you want more people to wake up, help us push this podcast to the top. Rate, review, share. Together we'll make a difference. And thanks for standing with us. Now, let's get to work. This is probably very unfair to ask you.

[Julie Messina]

We'll see.

[Glenn Beck]

Were you surprised you weren't fired? It was summer of 2025 when cracker barrel announced that they were going to go do something different and they were going to have a make makeover, new logo. No nice old man, no Cracker Barrel, just Cracker Barrel. Any other time in American history might not have been a big deal, but it became a big deal. And it was, it was one of the biggest, dumbest moves, honestly, that I, I've seen in my life of a corporation, because people felt like something that they held onto and cherished and loved was under attack. Was that the intent? Who. Who are the people that made the decision? What have they done to reverse the decision? And quite honestly, I heard from, I heard from the guy who picked me up at the airport. I heard from one of the guys who was handling the baggage at the airport. He said, what are you here for? I said, I'm going to meet with the head of Cracker Barrel. And he said, give her hell. The driver said, I don't know what they were thinking, but tell them we didn't like it. What you're going to hear in the podcast today is my conversation. The two people, the CEO and the Senior vice president. Senior vice president was brought in to fix the problems. There are parts of it that are very uncomfortable. Parts of it are honestly the usual blah, blah, blah, PR stuff that you get well rehearsed, quite honestly, because the last time the CEO was on television, she was on ABC Good Morning America, and it did not go well. This is her first television interview since. I don't know if they thought I would go easy on them, but I didn't. But I'm anxious to hear your thoughts, especially if you're watching and not just listening. Because there is one moment that I think changed everything, at least for me. See if you see it or sense it. We have on today's podcast the senior vice president of Cracker Barrel store operations, Doug Hizzell, and the CEO, Julie Messina.

[Doug Hizzell]

As we came out of COVID A trying to hire 50,000 people back, we.

[Glenn Beck]

Got a lot of our employees, original.

[Doug Hizzell]

Back, but we did. We lost a lot of very long tenured employees. A lot of them a little bit older and scared to come back into the environment.

[Glenn Beck]

Um, and so that's a lot of institutional knowledge.

[Doug Hizzell]

It hurts.

[Glenn Beck]

It really hurt.

[Doug Hizzell]

And in 22, as we started opening back up, we had that new menu that we had. So we lost all the people. We put a ton of training into that new menu. Now we're coming back, trying to open up. We're trying to get guests any way we can get them like it is. We had patio dining. We had. We were testing a rock garden dining, like they were going to sit out in the landscape. And I always say that Covid even made Cracker Barrels start drinking alcohol because that's how it happened. Like that it was out of COVID that it was like, how are we figuring out how to drive top line sales and try to get a guest in? And is this something that we could pursue?

[Glenn Beck]

Okay, so that is a good example of you don't know any of the story.

[Doug Hizzell]

Yeah.

[Glenn Beck]

You think Cracker Barrel's never served alcohol before. Why are you shoving alcohol? That's a cultural. And so it's easy to think you're selling people alcohol now. What. What other values are you. You know what I mean?

[Doug Hizzell]

That's fair.

[Glenn Beck]

And I think it's. Yeah, it's at least. That one is at least understandable.

[Doug Hizzell]

Yeah. And so now you understand the story. Yeah, exactly. And so. And you know, as we got into to 23, I came out of my ops administration role and came into operations and I was leading field operations. And best way for me to describe it is we were throwing Velcro balls at a wall to see what would stick. It was like, how can we get people in and not just guests, staff. Like it was. I can tell you many stories of us sending SWAT teams into areas to just find people to work. We couldn't open the doors because we only had four or five employees.

[Julie Messina]

It takes a lot of people to run a cracker barrel. Like, I mean, how many you think.

[Doug Hizzell]

Are here right now? How many people do you think we're. And this is not. This is normal. Saturday, we didn't add anybody.

[Glenn Beck]

You can't tell because I don't know, but 50.

[Doug Hizzell]

52.

[Glenn Beck]

50.

[Doug Hizzell]

Yeah, 52.

[Glenn Beck]

There's a lot on the line.

[Julie Messina]

Yeah.

[Doug Hizzell]

And each store has about average. Is about 100 employees. Our volume, stores like this in the legacy markets. 130 to 150.

[Glenn Beck]

That's total. Total and 50 at a time.

[Doug Hizzell]

Yeah, yeah. And so it was hard. I mean, we were, we were struggling to get staff, we were struggling to get guests in. We were struggling with the new menu. And so when Julie came in, she never said it to me, but if I was her, she was probably looking at us like, wow, we are a bit in shambles. And we were, I mean, we were. Like I said, we were throwing Velcro balls at a wall. We put menu items on that we thought would drive a new guest. We added complexity. We didn't start with the kitchen. And let's make the heart of the house the kitchen that can deliver the menu. We started with the menu in 2019. And so I think I've mentioned you on the line. It's a. It's a mirrored steam line.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug Hizzell]

And it's basically the kitchen is cut in half and you can operate the menu off of that one steam line. And the menu that we had in 19, it needed prior stations and it needed a whole different setup. And unfortunately we went after the menu first and not the kitchen, which impacted our employee experience.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah.

[Doug Hizzell]

So it was tough. So food quality, I would say service too. Some of our service opportunities has been just trying to get back up. You know, the Januses of the world have been here 35 years. We lost a lot of tenure, especially on our second shift. We've got some younger servers that are coming on, never served before. And so we had to revitalize our training program and just a lot of new things that we frankly, with a 56 year brand had never dealt with before. And we lost, we lost sight. I mean we were, we were focused on going to Greg take care of something instead of the base foundation and frankly built a house on sand.

[Glenn Beck]

The average person is finding it difficult to pay expenses every month and in most cases there's nothing left over to cover any extras. You feel like that most are not getting a big raise, expenses are up. It's very hard to manage without grabbing for credit cards. And when you do, my gosh, then that just keeps going up. If you're a homeowner, you're frustrated with that cycle, just make a 10 minute call, no obligation. Call today to American Financing. If you're constantly carrying a credit card balance each and every month with a rate in the 20s or even 30s, American financing can show you how to put your hard earned equity to work and get you out of that debt. Their salary based mortgage consultants are saving their customers an average of $800 a month. That's in this audience. And if you get started today, you may not have to make next month's mortgage payment. No upfront fees, cost you nothing. To find out how much you can save every month, call American Financing, 800-906-2440. That's 800-906-2440americanfinancing.net if we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With the all new sleep score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions and sleep duration. Then every morning it combines these factors into an easy to understand score from 1 to 100. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from good to excellent. Introducing the new sleep score on Apple Watch. IPhone 11 or later required. So when you came in, where was the company?

[Julie Messina]

That's the problem with eating and talking.

[Glenn Beck]

I know. Sorry.

[Julie Messina]

No, don't apologize. We're happy you're here. Look, the, the company had not been performing at that point in time, probably, I don't know, five or six years of TSR decline. Traffic had been down for tsr. Oh, sorry. Total shareholder return. Okay, sorry.

[Glenn Beck]

That's all right. That's right.

[Julie Messina]

Turn my business head off.

[Glenn Beck]

Turn my.

[Julie Messina]

Turn my, my guest head back on. So our shareholders weren't happy. We didn't have as many guests as we had been. This is a business of, I mean you can see right now I'm looking around it like it's a lot of people. Like it's a lot of people taking care of a lot of people. Right? We have a low check in the industry. Our Average check is 15. You look at even our competitors Like a Denny's or like an IHOP? Somebody like that.

[Doug Hizzell]

$18.

[Julie Messina]

Look at people like Chili's and Longhorn and Texas Roadhouse 27. So for us to maintain that value, we need a lot of throughput. So did we count on a lot of people at a lower check? We're about abundance. Like, look at your plate.

[Glenn Beck]

I know.

[Julie Messina]

Look at my plate. Our guests tell us abundance at a fair price. That's what they want. So we had been losing guests, as Doug described, Since probably what, 2018, 1718.

[Doug Hizzell]

Is where the client started.

[Julie Messina]

So I was tasked with how do we create change in that? How do we get more people in the people who love us? This is always about, like, how do we keep our core guests and make them happy, delight them, and just get more people to love Cracker Barrel the way they do?

[Glenn Beck]

So started in 2017. 2018.

[Doug Hizzell]

201718 was menu change.

[Glenn Beck]

What was the thought at that time? What were you thinking should be done at that time? Just didn't know what was causing it or.

[Doug Hizzell]

Yeah, well, one, I was. I was in operations admin, so I wasn't close to the strategy or culinary piece. So I'm kind of receiving the information. But frankly, it was about how do we create new menu offerings that will attract a new guest. That was everything about 2717, 18. Was that in particular dinner day part?

[Glenn Beck]

So breakfast.

[Doug Hizzell]

We are very strong at dinner. We've got. The competition expands, and we're trying to figure out, you know, what. What are those things that are going to bring the guests in. And Southern Fried Chicken was. It was kind of the anchor. That's where we thought we could potentially see an impact. Don't think we realized the complexity of put on the kitchen.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug Hizzell]

And.

[Glenn Beck]

And.

[Doug Hizzell]

And then like, literally right after we rolled it, going to Covid. So.

[Julie Messina]

And think about how many more choices guests have today. Right? I mean, Even just from 2018 to today, brands that weren't around. You know, I say it all the time when. When you think about it, like, Cracker barrels founded in 1969. Like, there weren't a lot of brands at that point in time. There weren't. Wasn't a lot of competition. McDonald's wasn't even big, but, like, those things weren't around. And now look, today, you drive. You drive down this road, you drive that way. Like everywhere, every brand, every competitor is.

[Glenn Beck]

Here, but you don't. I don't know. When you said, you know, some of your competition competitors, Denny's, that doesn't seem right to me. Denny seems like an old brand. You know what I mean? Cracker Barrel is not. I don't know why. To me, it doesn't seem like an old brand. It seems like a brand, you know, but it doesn't seem old and dusty. And I think. I think that's what. Well, you tell me.

[Julie Messina]

The industry classifies us with them, so.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, but I don't think people do, but the industry might. When did you hire the consultants to come in?

[Julie Messina]

Well, I think you all have had consultants in over the years, but the consultants. Yes. So when I got here, part of what I was tasked with was changing the trajectory. Right. And so we really dug in first on where were our opportunities? What could we do better? Food and experience was one that raised to the top. We were not winning in that space, but there were other things that we needed to do as well. And that's when we brought in some consultants who helped us dig into our data, look at competitive data, look at people who used to come to us, who don't come to us anymore. People who come to us, like, what's the magic there? How do we do more of that? And people who've never even thought to come of Cracker Barrel, what do they think about Cracker Barrel? So really looking at all of those things to really say, how do we improve our food and experience? Because Doug is right. One of the first things that we really tackled, and that was one of our biggest problems, is we were losing people at dinner. And dinner is an important day part for us because, believe it or not, we actually. Your check is a little bit higher at dinner.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, sure it is.

[Julie Messina]

And so that's important when we don't have that traffic.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah. Changes everything.

[Julie Messina]

Yeah, yeah. So we really started there, but we actually started at the other end of it, which was early dine. And so we put early dine specials out for our guests because we'd heard, like, that was important to them. So 8.99, come in, you get meatloaf, home fried chicken, all of that stuff. Really just listening and making sure that we had the things that people wanted so that they would choose us.

[Glenn Beck]

Let's just get this out. Okay, what happened? The choices that were made, I said on day one of this. I remember when they rolled out New Coke, and I thought that was the dumbest marketing move, the dumbest thing I've ever seen. We're taking the original formula and ditching it, and let's start over with a brand that people love. The day this broke, I said on the air welcome to New Coke. That's what this is. And it was no fancy stupid. Just stupid from start to finish. Can you walk me through how that happened?

[Julie Messina]

Yeah, sure. Look, our guests have a right to be upset. I feel it in you. When you're. When you're. When you're saying that they have a right to be upset. We messed up. The intent was not ideological. It was not to put the old version of Cracker Barrel in a box. That was not the intent whatsoever.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

The.

[Julie Messina]

The logo was one piece of a system. The old timer was never going anywhere. That's why, actually, when we said, okay, okay, we hear you. Like, it's because he was never going anywhere. When you. When you walk out of here, there's a big sign over there by the side of the freeway.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, yeah, huge.

[Julie Messina]

Bigger than this booth. Right. We were never taking those down. That's so expensive. And they're. And they're beautiful. People love them. It's a beacon to the weary traveler from the interstate. The.

[Doug Hizzell]

The day we rolled that we brought Uncle Hersel's menu item back to the menu, which our guests have been asking for for, like, 10 years. It was like. It was just so unfortunate that.

[Julie Messina]

But I get it. Like, what we didn't see in the data, again, it was one piece of what we were doing. But what we didn't see in the data was that the way people see themselves in the logo. So when the old timer and when the barrel were gone, it was like we had taken them out of it and that we weren't valuing what they valued. And we've heard that loud and clear since we did that.

[Glenn Beck]

And I'm.

[Julie Messina]

I'm sorry. Like, I really regret that. That was not the intention. We were trying to make it. Think about your phone. You know, your logo has to be this big to fit on there. We were trying to simplify it because, honestly, we got a guy, we got a barrel. We got a lot of stuff going on.

[Glenn Beck]

I have to tell you. Do I have the logo? I think I have the logos.

[Julie Messina]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Glenn Beck]

To me, I'm not upset. I don't care. Okay. I mean, that is a very busy logo. This is a more modern logo. I don't think it was about the logos.

[Doug Hizzell]

It wasn't.

[Glenn Beck]

It wasn't. So what was. What. What's. What was America saying to you?

[Julie Messina]

Yeah. They were saying our values, our traditions. That's what Cracker Barrel represents to us. The story. Look around. The story of America is on the walls.

[Glenn Beck]

Yes.

[Julie Messina]

And they thought when we did that, that we were saying that we didn't care about that and that's not. That was not the intent. And we are so I'm so sorry for the misunderstanding. I regret it. I don't want people to be mad at us. My job is to make people love Cracker Barrel, right? Not be mad at Cracker Barrel.

[Glenn Beck]

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[Julie Messina]

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[Glenn Beck]

What was a. The thinking of the remodeling and was it ever intended to get rid of all of this? Because it seemed very sterile in compared to this.

[Julie Messina]

I'm glad he asked. I think a lot of people think that Doug and me and other people sit around, are like, let's remodel Cracker Barrel. Nothing could be. Nothing could be further from the truth. The. The notion for some of that truly came out of a lot of the work that we were doing on how do we improve food and experience. When we were talking about our guest, they said stores could be a little bit more comfortable. They're real dark. I can't read the menu.

[Doug Hizzell]

Seats are real hard. Tell them your Memphis store, you'll love this.

[Julie Messina]

Maybe not. I don't know. We were. We were in store. I had maybe been here a hot minute, like two or three months. Like, yeah, two or three months. And we were out in Memphis, one of our older stores, and we were. We were talking to the team and we were. And I were working and I literally saw this man walk in with a stadium cushion. Now, I've only been here a couple months. I'm like, what is Going on.

[Doug Hizzell]

And in my mind, I'm going. It happens all the time. Like, they're. I've seen him all over the country carrying stadium cushions.

[Julie Messina]

Stopped in my tracks. I'm watching this man with a stadium cushion, and I'm like, I got to.

[Glenn Beck]

Go talk to him.

[Julie Messina]

So I waited till he got his food and of course, interrupted it while he was eating. But I said, sir, I. I've been. Just gotta understand.

[Glenn Beck]

Did you just have surgery? Yeah. Right.

[Julie Messina]

And. And he said, I love your food. I love it here, but your chairs are so uncomfortable. And he's like, oh, yeah, this has.

[Doug Hizzell]

All over the time.

[Julie Messina]

And I'm like, wait, what? This happens all the time. And, like, we haven't done anything about it, literally. Glenn. I was having breakfast with my nephew and his girlfriend not four weeks ago on Charlotte. Charlotte pike, that way, in a store. And you're sitting in one of the window seats, and gosh darn, if it didn't happen again. A guy gets out of his pickup truck, 9 o' clock on a Saturday morning with a stadium cushion and starts walking in. I'm like, look at my husband.

[Doug Hizzell]

And.

[Julie Messina]

And that's really where it all started, is how do we make the stores more comfortable? We also heard from our guests that that's why they weren't coming as much for dinner, because they want to sit in something like this. You are sitting in the second booth ever in a cracker barrel.

[Glenn Beck]

Oh, you're kidding me.

[Julie Messina]

It's the second one. And the reason this corner is cut like this is because the first one is figured out. And it was a square. It was a square table. And we have a group that comes in for a Bible study three times a week. And they couldn't get around the corner. They call themselves the corner crew now because they. They helped us learn that we needed to do this. So the remodels have been a test and learn project. How do we get the right balance of investment, of comfort, of nostalgia, of the tradition that everybody knows and loves here, but in a way that's easy for our teams to take care of. It's also hard to clean some of these things.

[Glenn Beck]

Oh, I bet.

[Julie Messina]

So how do. How do we make sure that we. We do all of those things while keeping the stories and the traditions and the things that people love about Crocker? And the feeling. For me, it's like the feeling when you come in and the fire's going and.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah.

[Julie Messina]

You know, so that's really.

[Glenn Beck]

I will tell you, this is. This is very different than the. The Drawings or the. That we saw only four.

[Julie Messina]

There were only four of those. And so. And they were. Again, we've got all different levels of kind of testing and learning that we were doing. And that was out there.

[Glenn Beck]

Are these corporately owned or are these franchises?

[Julie Messina]

We own them all. The thing I thought people were gonna not like about that is that store has so many booths, like, we actually took out because people have been loving the soft seating in the remodels that we've been doing. And so that has. I mean, usually Cracker Barrel is a sea of tables. Like, when you look around, we've got a lot of tables and chairs, and that one is all booths. And I thought, they're gonna kill me for the booths. It's too many booths. It's too many booths. And it wasn't that. It was the black and white and the decor. So that's why when people got upset about it, we were like, oh, gosh, that's not the intention. We can revert them, like, no problem. Change the logo, painted them brown. Like, we're in the process. There's a couple still because of Florida permitting that aren't fully turned back yet, but we're getting there. There were only four.

[Glenn Beck]

Some people think losing their hearing just means missing a few words here and there. But it's more than that. It's missing all the jokes at dinner, all the crazy sounds of your kids and grandkids laughing, music that used to move you to tears, and the simple rhythm of everyday life. It's losing connection, one conversation at a time, to the people that you love. Audien can fix that. They have created the Atom series. It's tiny, rechargeable hearing aids that slip in easily, let you hear the world again clearly and comfortably. Here's the best part. No appointments, no complicated settings, no hidden fees. You just go buy them, slip them in, tap the touch screen case, and the world comes back into focus. Built by audiologists, engineered for clarity and priced for real people, Audien makes hearing accessible to everyone. Because listening shouldn't cost thousands and it definitely shouldn't cost you. The moments that make your life feel full, laugh and hear again. Every song that sounds, make it sound just right. That's life returning to you, Audien. Bringing back the sounds, the voices, and the connections that make life worth hearing. Don't wait. Go to audienhearing.com and take control of your hearing today. Audieanhearing.com@ikea. Your dreams can come true. Well, maybe not the ones where you're being chased by A monster. We're talking about kitchen dreams. And there are IKEA products and solutions for all of them, whether it's a whole new kitchen, a statement glassware set, or just new cutlery. If you got big dreams or small dreams in any size or budget, IKEA can help you bring them to Life. Visit IKEA US DreamKitchen to learn more. Dream the possibilities. In some ways, I'm gonna get so much heat for saying this. In some ways, I think it was unfair because I don't doing my research. I don't think it was intentional. I think it was. It wasn't political. It was just a lack of understanding of the brand and the time in which we live. You know, we. I can take it from Nike, but Budweiser, any of these, Any of these brands that said they were like me, I don't care how you vote, I don't care, but don't slap me across the face. And I think it felt like that to a lot of people that you were just like, we don't care about your values. We want new customers. We're. This is who we are. And it. And this is unfair to you. There was that one picture that was going around of the rainbow seats that wasn't you. That wasn't part of this new deal. But was there DEI and all that crap going on in the company?

[Julie Messina]

This. This was truly about, you know, we. As you look around, we embroider that logo on so many things, hats and shirts, and it was truly about making it more simple as part of a system.

[Glenn Beck]

No, but I mean, was dei, was, Was the. Had the company embraced DEI as a culture?

[Julie Messina]

Look, we. The Cracker Barrel has always been about welcoming everybody in. I think before I was here, we had different policies. We're here to take care of people. We're here to make sure everybody can work here, can be welcome here.

[Glenn Beck]

Right? But there's a difference between. I think everybody, every American wants that. There's a difference between that and promoting. You know, when, when a. A brand, I don't even know which one did, it's probably Nike all of a sudden makes it a point of saying boys can be girls and they should be in the girls locker room. I don't need that from my brand. I don't want that from my brand. You as individuals can make whatever choice you want, want, but don't preach to me from a corporate place. Don't preach to me on that. Just leave me alone. I'm here to buy your shoes. I'm here to eat your meal. Can we just not have that thrown in our face. What I'm asking you, was that part of any of the strategy that this was becoming? We have to make political statements.

[Julie Messina]

No, it's pancakes.

[Doug Hizzell]

Not even one time.

[Julie Messina]

Yeah. We're not trying to make political statements.

[Doug Hizzell]

Your point earlier about you thinking potentially unfair. I think the logo was the straw that broke the camel's back. I think from 2018 forward, we had frustrated him so many times with menu items. We had deleted horrible service, bad food. We couldn't execute food out of the kitchen. We're holding guests for 50 minutes to an hour when they want to get out in 45 like that. And they were telling us, our guests, they keep coming back and keep coming back, keep coming back. And every time they come back, it's like, come on, guys, we're gonna give you another shot. Get the food right, get the service right. And. And we did not see that as our North Star. We had. I call them blinking lights. We had all these blinking lights happening, forgetting about, you know, what our guest is coming in to eat, and we've got to provide that experience. And then it becomes a experiential brand where, unfortunately, it became transactional, because the guests, they couldn't take time to even understand what was happening on the walls because they're frustrated that we can't get food out or get it right or the quality.

[Julie Messina]

Our focus was just food and experience.

[Doug Hizzell]

Right.

[Julie Messina]

I mean, we have to. It sounds so simple, but it's. It's why you're here. Doug says it all the time. You're here because you're hungry. Maybe you need a gift on your way in and out, but you're here because you're hungry. We've got to make sure that we're doing that.

[Glenn Beck]

I know you're. I don't even know if it's your mission statement. It's part of your mission statement. That whole pleasing people plaque. Yeah. That whole thing that has all the different. And. And part of it was to be a. A family. That's why the fireplace here, that's why the checkered boar is there, because it's meant to be a warm, safe home away from home. Away from home. It's like. It's like Uncle Ted moves in, and he's now taking care of grandma, but he's getting rid of all of the doilies that have been on grandma's table. And you're like, that's not Grandma. Okay. Even if grandma was saying, I don't care about the doilies, that. That's Grandma's. House, and you were messing with grandma's house.

[Julie Messina]

And we are. We're sorry that that's what people feel. That was not the intent. It's not the intent. It hurts me because I don't want people to be mad. At Cracker Barrel, our job is to make people love Cracker Barrel the way that our guests do. Right? And so even trying to invite new people in, it was always about how do we show them the magic that is Cracker Barrel? The stories of America, the stories of our guests, the stories of the people like Janice and Doug who've worked, who've spent their lives making it great here. That's what we want everybody to love. And we miss the mark. We miss the mark.

[Glenn Beck]

You were on Good Morning America. That wasn't fun. And this is your first interview since then.

[Julie Messina]

I thought we weren't having an interview. You told me we were just talking.

[Doug Hizzell]

Didn't you tell discussion. It's just a discussion.

[Glenn Beck]

I'm sure this is not your own first discussion since then, but what'd you learn from that?

[Julie Messina]

Anything from Good Morning America?

[Glenn Beck]

From that interview and the response in that interview.

[Julie Messina]

That.

[Glenn Beck]

That.

[Julie Messina]

So many things have gotten in our way of. And we've lost focus. Focus on the things that matter, which is what we're talking about. Food, taking care of people, telling the stories, letting people see themselves in this brand. You know, I. You asked me earlier about a place that I've worked, and I. The thing that struck me about Cracker Barrel and that continues to strike me about Cracker Barrel, this is a humble brand with humble beginnings here in the center of this great country. Other brands that you go into, you sit down and when you look around and you see things on the walls, they're the brand's story. They're telling you about the ingredients. They're telling you about their founding, whatever, whatever they want you to think. We don't do that here at Cracker Barrel. There's nothing on the wall here that's Cracker Barrel or the logo. This is America's story. This is our guest story. This is Janice's or Doug's story. And people's ability to feel that when they come in, whether it's grandma's house. And so we don't want to move the doilies around. We want to make it comfortable for you and comfortable for you to bring your friends.

[Glenn Beck]

So can I ask you how do. Because part of me, part of me absolutely agrees with the way people reacted, but part of me also is like, that's a little irrational. You know, it's a. It's a product of the time, and it's a. It's a. It's honestly, it feels like a corporate boardroom not understanding what people are feeling about the overall picture of their life. You know what I mean?

[Julie Messina]

And of other things, too.

[Glenn Beck]

Right, right, right. Politics. Everything. Everything. I mean, I hate the fact that everything is about politics. You know, it's. It's ridiculous. We can't survive if everything is about. Pancakes are pancakes. Football is football. Politics are politics. But how do you. If we don't correct this. I'm asking you to put a philosophical hat on here. If we don't. If, If. If everybody is afraid to change, afraid that everything's going to mean six layers down, something else. How do we survive? How do you make change in business?

[Julie Messina]

So very existential question for our coffee and country fried turkey, by the way.

[Glenn Beck]

Very good. Yeah, very good.

[Julie Messina]

It is. It's a star.

[Glenn Beck]

Guy who picked me up at the airport said, have you had this? I was like, no. So that's why I'm having it for breakfast.

[Julie Messina]

It is. It's a home run, and you got to get it while you can. We usually sell out, like, right around Thanksgiving. We bought a little bit more this year, so hopefully it'll last through the holidays. Look, I think that's why. Frankly, that's why I was anxious to sit down and chat with you, because I do think a lot of things have been misconstrued. And I want to set the record straight. I want people to know that this is the brand that they've always known and loved and that our job is to take care of it and just set it up for the next 55 years. And. And that when you walk in here, it feels like Cracker Barrel. The. The spirit, the feeling, the legacy, the traditions, the. The food that you love that's made by hand by people who care. It's still here.

[Glenn Beck]

Are you surprised? This is probably very unfair to ask you, but we're. Were you surprised you weren't fired?

[Julie Messina]

I feel like I've been fired by America.

[Glenn Beck]

I bet you did. Yeah, that's probably worse.

[Julie Messina]

Yeah, because it's. It's. It's hard because, again, all I've wanted to do is help people love this brand the way I love this brand, the way Doug loves the spray on, the way. Everybody who works here. I mean, the responsibility for the 70,000 people who work here, I. I bear that every single day. They are here to make a better lives for themselves, to take care of their families. To put a roof over their head, food on their table. And my job is to make sure that Cracker Barrel helps them do that. And it's not just those 70,000 people they like. Doug has four other people depending on him. They all have people depending on them. And that's. That's why we're doing what we're doing, because this brand deserves to have another 50, 60 years in front of it. We're trying to set it up for the future so that people. The stories are here and they're told and people can come in and feel that. The. The feeling that you get here is so special, it's so unique.

[Glenn Beck]

And I'm talking about you personally.

[Julie Messina]

And I want. I want, but. But my job is to keep. Keep that, you know, protect that, you know, And I feel like people don't think I can do that sometimes, but my job is to invite them in and let them see that it's what they know and love. I mean, hopefully you feel that today, but I do feel that through you.

[Glenn Beck]

So I do feel this. The beginning of that answer, which is all that mattered to me, was the most genuine thing I have heard from somebody in your position in a very long time. I can see that it actually, I can see in your eyes right now that hurt deeply. Personally.

[Julie Messina]

I want people to love this place.

[Glenn Beck]

Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people.

[Doug Hizzell]

Limu Imu and Doug.

[Glenn Beck]

Here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Doug Hizzell]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Glenn Beck]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty Savings vary underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.