Glenn Beck (2:38)

And so you wrote a book about kill and capture, but the rest of the world, and I think this probably even goes to military people were shocked by how that went down. I mean, it puts America in a different place, militarily speaking. I think it shows Maybe we have things that nobody understands and we're far more advanced than what anybody thought. How shocked were you at how that went down?

Author/Historian Consultant (3:12)

Well, I was shocked for a very different reason. And I think for me I'm always looking at the technical aspects of things in terms of the military equipment and the planning, what's called. And then also how it sits in the long line of history meaning militaries and the CIAs kill or capture missions since the invention of the sea, or rather the sort of CIA became an organization after World War II and put organizations like Delta Force. So to me that's what's shocking is how it's absolutely changing and know we can get into the details of that because that's what I find really interesting.

Glenn Beck (3:58)

So I do want to get into that because the one thing I hate, the things the CIA has done, much of it is good, but a lot of it is not good. And I think a lot of the world hates us because we have had these policies of we're going to just depose somebody and we're going to pick the next person for you. And so the idea of self rule and everything else, it just becomes this is America's guy. And that hasn't worked out well for us many times and it's very short term thinking and I've always hated that. What I liked about this and also at the same time simultaneously disliked is that we didn't topple the regime. The vice president who, duly elected or not, she's not a fan of the United States, she's not like our pick, but we took the one person out at the top and said you are in violation of these things and we are not necessarily picking the next person. Is that unusual for us? Is that new thinking?

Author/Historian Consultant (5:07)

It is unusual. And what's also interesting is that every, if you, I think if you look at the presidents and you approach, if you're like me, a historian who writes specifically about military and intelligence, you can see how the president, or at least I can, is impacted by both his predecessors because presidents are briefed on what the other guys have done and who they want to emulate and then also they want to set their own sort of stamp on, you know, special activities, if you will euphemism for this kind of thing, a killer capture mission. But this current president never ceases to amaze me. And that was true in the last, his last term as well. And when I say amaze, meaning the playbook is not by any stretch predictable or rather it doesn't follow a foot right yes, it is not standard and, but you, it's, it's interesting. I almost used the word fun and that's a terrible word.

Glenn Beck (6:12)

Yeah, fun.

Author/Historian Consultant (6:12)

But it's intriguing, intriguing to look at how these different presidents approach all this and also how they are impacted by their own successes or failures. And that's where it gets really interesting because you can go all the way back to Kennedy and look at how his personal embarrassment over one organization's failed killer capture mission impacts the world going forward.

Glenn Beck (6:39)

You know, I think that's one thing that people don't understand that I really like about Donald Trump in ways scares the hell out of me because he's playing very high stakes games, but it seems logical to me. At least I can understand why he's doing things that I think even world leaders are missing. He is saying, I am not playing by the old rules because he sees the old rules getting us from Bretton woods to where we are now and he doesn't believe we're in a good place. Those, you know, might have been good for the time back in the 40s and 50s, but the world has changed. And so he's, I'm not playing by the rules. And I think it took them quite a while before the world started waking up and going, oh, oh, wait, wait, wait, at what point do you think the world is going to catch up to him and say, okay, I can predict what he's going to do next. Are we there yet or not?

Author/Historian Consultant (7:43)

Well, I think your observations are super interesting and they point to something I think about also, which is like I write about history and it's easier to look at operations through the lens of history and then kind of, you know, reverse engineer your opinion. I mean, and I mean that with all humility that that is actually easier. What you just commented is saying, here's what's happening in the present day. And that is a lot harder. It is a lot harder to know. And so it's kind of like a comfort being historian. But what's crazy about this is that I am repeatedly being like asked to comment on things that we thought were history that are actually present day. Right. So just look at meaning. What? Like meaning I did not expect to be writing, you know, suggesting to the Jack Ryan writers team, hey, let's do an authentic killer capture mission inside the Venezuela and then have it essentially become kind of true reality. That is where it gets awkward.

Glenn Beck (8:59)

When can we just, I want to just touch on Greenland here for a second.

Author/Historian Consultant (9:05)

Yes, by all means.

Glenn Beck (9:06)

Think he and help me out. I talked to him about five months ago, six months ago. And I said, you're rewriting Bretton Woods. You're just rewriting the whole thing? And he said, yes, good observation. Yes, I am. And when I look at what he's saying about Greenland, my God, I don't want to take that over. I don't want to be sewing a 51, you know, 51st star on the flag. I don't want any of that kind of stuff to happen. But I think this is him to understand this. He is saying, in my opinion, Europe has failed. They're going in the wrong direction. They are not going to be able to protect themselves. They're just failing right now, and they don't seem to be waking up at all. And we have to protect our own hemisphere, and so we have to have control of Greenland. A, am I reading that right? B, how does Europe respond to that? And is there a chance that we can get what we need from Greenland without, you know, sending in military or doing something like that?

Author/Historian Consultant (10:18)

Well, I think what you're also pointing out is very important point about what the President, and let's call him potus, what a POTUS wants to do, what they have the power to do, which is mostly the answer is everything, in my opinion, understanding and then what happens, the events that happen and then how the public perception then moves the rudder on, on what happens moving forward. And so the closest analogy I could make to this presidential, this president's term is like, if you look back at the Eisenhower administration after trumpet, right. But everything was happening in secret. And this, and I say to say this because this is when, like Greenland became this key focal point in the nuclear threat from the Soviet Union. But everything that Eisenhower did was done in secret. There were no conversations between him and someone like yourself, like a president. And right there was. It was he and his advisors, his special group, that's always what they're called, dismembered, deciding the fate of the world in essence, or deciding what we would do, we being the United States. And so. And then the world would see the results of that a decade later.

Glenn Beck (11:44)

Correct. I keep, I keep, I keep saying to my audience, you don't understand. You will not understand what he has done in his first year for 10 years, maybe five. But it's, it's not. People are like, we're not getting anything done. No, no, no good or bad mountains are being moved, but you won't understand why for maybe a decade. Exactly like Eisenhower, even though he's saying it out front, some of it I Don't think people connect it.

Author/Historian Consultant (12:19)

Yes. And then there also is now this new sort of pressure on what happens in the present tense, which is based on public opinion, which exist in the 1950s, it simply didn't exist. People were just way behind the curve. And now you're talking about a daily dose of opinion from billions of people around the world, which does impact not only the President's opinion of what he might do, but what others do, what Europe does, what China does. And so it's completely new territory and it's interesting for us to discuss. I cannot encourage people enough to read history because then it takes the sort of, you know, impact like how could we be so crazy as to you go, well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We doing this look at the kill or capture missions since Eisenhower.

Glenn Beck (13:21)

Yeah.

Author/Historian Consultant (13:21)

And then begin to understand how this fits into the big scheme of things so that one's opinion is a little bit more in informed. And I then I think you have actually a better take on the narrative as it's unfolding and with no doubt understanding that it's a new world.

Glenn Beck (13:39)

Yeah. And I don't even know. I feel weird every day. You know, my job is to give opinions, and I feel less and less qualified to give those opinions every day because we're dealing with things that if he's right, it's going to change the world, I think, for a much better and freer world, in my opinion. But if he's wrong, it could be catastrophic. I mean, you just look at. He seems to. When it came to Venezuela, I felt like he took, you know, the old term, you know, two birds with one stone. I felt like he took one stone and knocked out 200 birds. I mean, everything China, everything was is affected by that. And at some point, you're backing these big countries into corners. And that's when countries or anybody becomes dangerous, is when they are like, I have no other thing I can do. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, you probably know better than I. But I think that most wars, if not all wars, all begin with just a simple miscalculation. Somebody has miscalculated, and I hope it's not us. You have any comment on that thought?

Author/Historian Consultant (14:55)

Yes. Here's what comes to mind. And it sounds like a tangent, but stay with me. In the first Trump administration, when he chose to kill General Soleimani, Iranian sort of military chief in a drone strike, I was stunned. I remember thinking, I mean, it was so unusual, the specifics of doing that and bravado with which that was done. And short of Iran, you know, threatening to kill Pompeo and others, nothing has really happened on that. But again, you know, that we just don't know. We don't know. We. The general person does not understand how that impacted Israel, how that impacted Hezbollah, how that, you know, impacted the entire terrorist organization across the Middle East. And I think that is a little bit of a sort of maybe poetic analogy that I'm trying to get at with this current, you know, capture mission. But the specifics of this capture mission are astonishing to me because it was so successful. That is what is hard to wrap one's head around. At least for me. Killing Solani is a lot easier. Drone striking someone. I mean, this was an astonishingly huge operation. And what if it had failed?

Glenn Beck (16:21)

It would have been catastrophically bad. And the amount of people, I mean, for us not to lose any asset, not just people, any asset is remarkable. And one of those ripple effects is Venezuela is supposed to have the best of China and the best of Russia protecting it, and none of it worked. I mean, I thought about the Chinese salesman that was going to go to the big convention for weapons that is now looking at all their customers who are saying, wait a minute, wait a minute. What the hell happened there? How good is this? Because America, you didn't even launch a missile. How did that happen? Do we have something new? Do you know?

Author/Historian Consultant (17:04)

Well, I don't know. I don't know. And this is why it's. And I mean that as like an interesting thought experiment, because we know about the missions that fail. I mean, and again, what, what this reminds me of, the closest analogy that failed would have been Bay of Pigs trying to kill Castro in this, you know, most, you know, people aren't even. They only know about this as just like the Bay of Pigs. But if you really look about, look, drill down on that and understand what happens when something goes wrong, how a President Kennedy in that situation becomes embarrassed and outraged. And so I think we're talking about mission that was a success. What's more interesting to me is what is that going to do now to this President and his authority, Perception of authority, and his perception of the use of Delta and his perception of the use of the CIA, because all of these things lined up in his favor in a manner that is unprecedented.

Glenn Beck (18:05)

And it's scary because you don't want the President to become arrogant about it.

Author/Historian Consultant (18:12)

You know, or to think that that wasn't just a. But just a bunch of events working at the right. There were 150 aircraft involved yeah, I mean, agent. The CIA was in, you know, conducting intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance. Prior, there's this strange detail of the President by his own admittance calling Maduro and you know, giving him a heads up, which is just how did that work? We don't know any of this. We don't know what is actually propaganda or you know, or call it what you will sort of narrative that you want to tell. These are interesting times.

Glenn Beck (18:54)

We knew the CIA had been monitoring him. Maduro and knew where every family member was. Knew, you know, the guys going in knew the dog's name, I mean, knew everything a quickly. How unusual is that?

Author/Historian Consultant (19:10)

That's not unusual at all from what I understand. In other words, the guys who I remember, the Jack Ryan writers team. This is going back to that tweet, being shocked to learn. And it's a detail I know, but that I had forgotten. How interesting it is that the CIA or the military, they work together in situations like this. Essentially has the architectural plans of every important building in every foreign country and you can fill in the dots. Why?

Glenn Beck (19:42)

Yeah, I mean it was amazing. It was amazing to me when we bombed the nuclear facility that we had been running dry runs of that bombing back in the early 2000s and that we had built that bomb specifically for that. That and again 20 years ago. It's amazing the things that we have filed away and the things that we're working on just so if the President says we're going to do that, they're ready. It's incredible.

Author/Historian Consultant (20:14)

That is absolutely correct. And it's also why I like looking at history to really drill down on these events of the past. And I do it from documents that are declassified as well as firsthand accounts from the operators who are involved in those missions so that you can become a little bit educated about, you know, what might happen in the future. But I am fascinated by this mission and I cannot wait for a little time to pass and be able to learn more.

Glenn Beck (20:49)

The Havana Syndrome weapon that, you know, they tried to say for a long time that that wasn't real. And I'm like, I don't know, it sounds pretty specific that our people are coming back and going to the hospital and saying the same things were happening to them. Is it possible that we now have that? Did we. Is it possible we use that on this mission?

Author/Historian Consultant (21:14)

Well, from what I understand that what you're referring to is directed at people.

Glenn Beck (21:20)

Right?

Author/Historian Consultant (21:20)

Right. So it's to injure people and it's injuring people in a long term manner, like short term term. But also really long term.

Glenn Beck (21:30)

So then the sonic weapons then would be more mass to make you vomit or do whatever it is. Those kinds of weapons, they're different in your opinion?

Author/Historian Consultant (21:40)

Yeah, they're all, I mean I've written about these in almost every one of my books because they always connect. So the Havana syndrome type weapons have existed since the 50s. I, I'm just stunned that. I'm stunned when reporters are like, reporters were saying this sounds like it's made up. I mean it just, it's there historically, of course it exists. Of course it exists. But in terms of the sonic weapons, I wrote about those in my book darpa, about the Pentagon's brain. They exist. I've interviewed people who have volunteered to be civilian recipients of those sonic weapons, you know, to see if that actually incapacitates them. Those are short term weapons usually by the way, you can just google them and find them.

Glenn Beck (22:23)

And so why haven't we used them more? Or have we? We just didn't notice. And do you think they were used on this mission?

Author/Historian Consultant (22:31)

We do use them. The real remarkable situation about this mission is that it was a confluence of events that all came together, working together. When the reference, I can't remember if it was the President or the Chief of staff said that we took out the electronics. That's an old technique that goes back to goal 41, which is what we did to Iraq to the entire system in the first night.

Glenn Beck (22:59)

Right. Those were e. I mean we've had E6s. I think that's what they are, those E6s. We've had those forever that go in, they're the first ones go in. They jam everything. But to come in with, I don't remember the number 26 helicopters, slow and low and no missile was even launched at them. That's hard to explain.

Author/Historian Consultant (23:21)

Well, there's no question that that's new technology. And there's always new technology in these missions. Remember the bin Laden raid or kill, when they killed bin Laden. And that involved new technology with a stealth helicopter that was only unveiled when a piece of the helicopter got left behind.

Glenn Beck (23:39)

That's right, that's right.

Author/Historian Consultant (23:41)

These are always like secret pieces of technology that we don't know about until they make an appearance on the battlefield. That's the F117 in Iraq. This is again, this is history. So it will be interesting to learn eventually what those specific weapons were. But by now China and Russia already know about them and are developing, if they hadn't sooner.

Glenn Beck (24:06)

So you know, I, and I talked to the President, about this, about why are we still building aircraft carriers when we know in three years just through AI, everything is going to change. And we're already seeing with the use of drones and everything else. And I, I equate the time period that we're in to World War I, when Europe came in with all of the horses and they were going to fight it with the horses, and they had no idea that the tank was going to change everything, that you had gas, you know, we had flamethrowers, and it was going to be a completely different world. And it shocked and horrified the world. And I keep thinking that the next big conflict, God forbid, is going to shock the world at how efficient man has become in killing, in war. Do you agree with that?

Author/Historian Consultant (25:05)

Well, I think Your World War I analogy is pretty brilliant and also terrifying because let's not forget the chemical weapons that were used, the muscle gas. And remember that at the end of World War I, everyone agreed that was the war to end all wars, because war was perceived as horrible. It had gotten so mechanized and you had all these treaties that came out of it, Geneva, etc, you know, prohibiting chemical weapons, et cetera, only to be completely defied. So you're absolutely right. I mean, which is the reason why all of this must be to prevent a world war. III must be full stop, end of sentence. It is dangerous time with weaponry accelerating to a degree that none of us have any idea about. That is how the Defense Department is structured. They are working on weapon systems we are not meant to know about.

Glenn Beck (26:13)

I will tell you that I saw, when I first saw the drones take out people in a tank in Ukraine and how it just waited for them and there was no escape. It. It knew how many people were in and it would follow each one, and there's nowhere to go. And I thought, oh, my gosh, put that at scale, put that on Taiwan. I mean, that is. It's just horrifying, Horrifying. And I, and I, I know that the one thing that truly frightens President Trump, because if he brought it up once to me, he's brought it up a thousand times in private conversations. You don't ever want a nuclear war. He's like, glenn, I helped rebuild it. You have no idea the destruction that can happen. You do not want a nuclear war. And so I know he's trying to prevent those things, but at the same time, I wonder if we're looking over the horizon and seeing is there something almost as horrific as a nuclear weapon. I mean, the, you know, the problem is nuclear weapon as you so I mean you just so vividly outline in your book, you know, you push that button and it's over. And that we're not looking at those kinds of weapons I hope, but we are looking at war that will happen in the blink of an eye. Battles that will be started and over in a blink of an eye.

Author/Historian Consultant (27:39)

You brought up an interesting point there that maybe I'll tell an anecdotal story about that has to do with acceleration of weaponry. When you spoke of the Ukrainian drones, I think it's really interesting to consider that drones didn't exist until they did exist in the summer of 2000. I mean they existed, there were tiny plantations, battlefield in Vietnam. But it was the CIA who really brought the drone to the battlef in a mission that is kind of analogous or at least important to what happened with Maduro. So it was the summer of 2000, Clinton was president and the CIA wanted to kill bin Laden. This was a year before 9, 11. And this is because of his attacks against embassies in Africa.

Glenn Beck (28:28)

Right.

Author/Historian Consultant (28:28)

And the CIA specifically went to Clinton and asked for permission. They had been developing these drones. I interviewed all the, the original players and it's in surprise Gilvanish. They went to the President and the President said no, we will not do that. You need to have an FBI agent with you when you, you have to give bin Laden the opportunity to be arrested.

Glenn Beck (28:51)

Wow.

Author/Historian Consultant (28:52)

And you see my analogy. This is exactly what Maduro, they had FBI agents with them. And so my take on hearing about that was this kind of circular when the sort of horseshoe comes together. The CIA was furious that Clinton wouldn't give them permission to kill bin Laden, which much of the world would look back and say too bad. But they didn't. Okay, he wanted to do it the legal way and bring in an FBI agent. CIA said that's ridiculous, it will never work. And so instead the CIA developed the Predator drone and the rest is history about that. That going all the way up to your comments about Ukraine and then you come around full circle where all these weapons, you know, sort of more conventional and also modern day battlefield weapons go in and take out Maduro but actually arrest him. Yeah, that just makes my head spin with multiple layers of special operations which, and I'm not saying I'm pro or you know, again for or against a mission, I'm just telling you the facts. But on balance with nuclear World War three, all of these things must be taken into consideration.

Glenn Beck (30:16)

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Author/Historian Consultant (33:28)

Well, you're talking about them in terms of, I believe, what I wrote about in nuclear war. A scenario whereby they're in the briefcase and we're talking. I was speaking specifically to PEDs that are directives for the President in the event that the President is going to launch a nuclear Counter. Counter strike.

Glenn Beck (33:47)

But there are other kinds of PEDs. They cover everything.

Author/Historian Consultant (33:50)

Oh, yes.

Glenn Beck (33:50)

Yeah.

Author/Historian Consultant (33:51)

Oh, yes, absolutely. And we don't know about any of them. But again, this is something I've been writing about in all of my books because the degree of presidential power, of executive branch power that exists and that has existed since World War II is astonishing. And most people do not realize or know about. And it's only when some of these radical, you know, situations come to the fore that people learn about them. And then I think many people are astonished to learn about them, but it would probably be better to understand how they've always been there. And it's literally just a matter of who uses what kind of authority. You know, you saw during the Bush administration, the real exercise of that executive authority for the first time in the modern era. For the first time in the modern era. But they had always been there, going back to. Interestingly, because Dick Cheney was the Vice President, some people say he was acting like the President. But, you know, I write in Surprise Kilvanish about how Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld were the chief of staff and the deputy chief of staff to Ford after Nixon was impeached. This is where you can see, absolutely, the resurgence, the rebirth of executive authority that came directly out of Rumsfeld and Cheney's fear that the church hearings. Sorry for too much history.

Glenn Beck (35:18)

No, no, no, I love it.

Author/Historian Consultant (35:19)

Are what investigated the CIA over the assassinations. Right. So the church hearings are happening and we need to, you know, everyone's screaming and shouting. We need to get rid of the power of the CIA. And meanwhile, inside the executive office, the power is being protected and Restored. This is the way of the executive branch. And it's better to know it, I believe, than to be the ostrich who preten it doesn't exist. When the proverbial four letter word hits the fan, you better believe that executive authority comes out. And that's what you're talking about with the PEDs. You know, they can come out of that briefcase or the file whenever the President wants. And you're looking at that right now with what's happening domestically. And so all of these things entwine and become super interesting.

Glenn Beck (36:12)

I am really concerned. I don't like secret stuff and I do believe that there are things that we as a nation have to keep secret. And I like that. But we are secret about everything. And so the secret of things we shouldn't be secret about, it's just we've over classified everything. And that gives power to a lot of people that maybe shouldn't have power. And I am, I'm very concerned about the growth of the intel agencies because it is almost like I said this to somebody that I can't reveal who it is, but you would know who they are. And they were very high up in intel. And he's not necessarily not a fan of intel and what's going on or a fan, but I asked him, I said if the intel is out of control, it's almost like they're their own fiefdom that they can do whatever they want. They don't really report to anybody because a lot of times nobody knows what they're doing. I said, are they their own little kingdom? Can they ever be stopped if that's true? And shockingly to me, this man said to me, no, I don't think you ever undo that without just resetting everything. Do you hold that view?

Author/Historian Consultant (37:41)

I hold a view that shares some of that, but also sort of expands a little bit, starting with this. You know, many people think of the CIA as the intelligence community, not acknowledging that there are 17 intelligence agents that we know of. So I'm assuming there are more. Just look at nro, the National Reconnaissance Office, which was a classified office from 1960 to 1993, I believe maybe 92. So for 30 some odd years it existed. And no one in the United States of America that didn't hold a top secret SEI clearance knew it even existed. This was the satellite agency in essence. And so to your question, how powerful is the intel world? It's very, very powerful. It's also important, essentially they are there to give intellig president to prevent military Action. This is also transforming in the world in which we live, where intelligence is used not necessarily to prevent, you know, military action, but to foster it. But I think the biggest problem that listeners, viewers would benefit from thinking about is that after 9, 11, this new organization, the Director of National Intelligence, this office was created, and that's what Tulsi Gabriel is currently the director of. And from my understanding of decades on reporting and intelligence is there is a, I don't want to say hostility, but there is a rivalry, if you will.

Glenn Beck (39:18)

Yeah.

Author/Historian Consultant (39:19)

Or a class of, a clash of cultures between the CIA and the, you know, and the odn. And so things are stovepiped there, which ironically, was the whole reason that organization.

Glenn Beck (39:38)

Right.

Author/Historian Consultant (39:39)

And again, that is interesting. All this stuff is really interesting to me, Glenn, because it's human nature.

Glenn Beck (39:44)

Yeah.

Author/Historian Consultant (39:45)

You know, what you see, you kind of see in your own family or your tribe or your extended family or your tribe, people getting power or prestige and then kind of wanting a little more. And so I think these are human at the core. They're human issues for somebody.

Glenn Beck (40:01)

Like, can they be? Can they be? I mean, that's the beauty of our Constitution. Average length of a constitution survival is like 17 years. You know, we're coming up, you know, over 200 years. And that's for a reason, I think, because for a lot of those years, it actually had the checks and balances. Our founders, they studied human nature and you know, they didn't predict that like, for instance, Congress would just give up their power and say, no, give it to the, give it to the agencies because they didn't want to take responsibility for anything. So there's a few things that, you know, over time they didn't expect humans to do, but we don't have, especially on secret stuff, there doesn't seem to be checks and balances that work. You know, you, there's always a back door, always a way you can get around it. And, and, and that's the real problem. They don't. And this is not just the intelligence agency. Nobody seems to be. Carry ultimate responsibility for anything. You know, you don't know who, who do I go to, who do I, who do I go to, who do I fire, who made that? It's always kind of just nebulous. And, and nobody really seems to have responsibility, even though, you know, people have responsibility. You just as a citizen don't know who it is. Does that make sense?

Author/Historian Consultant (41:27)

Yeah, absolutely, it makes sense. I, because I am an eternal optimist, which I know people find shocking because I write about the grimace possible. But I really am an eternal optimist and I see the situation that we're in now as I see history, which is as a work in progress. As a work in progress. And so I like to be aware of what's happening in the moment, obviously, but I like to look at how far we've come and where things have gotten better, not necessarily where they've gotten worse.

Glenn Beck (42:06)

Yeah.

Author/Historian Consultant (42:07)

Because I think you have to. Otherwise you can be, you know, pessimism, I think, leads to paranoia and that is deeply dangerous, especially for the citizenry, because that's certainly what I am part of. And so I'm to trying just examining the leaders and the. And the operators as those who are really holding the reins of power. But what's the role of the citizen? Well, I personally think to be curious how you and I started this conversation off camera, that's where the role of the citizen lies. Because this business of everybody thinking they are like quarterbacking the president's moves or the Secretary of State or, I mean, that I find a little suspect because you can. One cannot imagine what it would be like to wear the moccasins of those individuals.

Glenn Beck (42:58)

Oh, my gosh. I can't tell you. For the first time, I mean, I've been watching this stuff for a long time, but for the first time, we are under this president. I have seen him make moves that affect billions of lives. And if it's wrong, it affects billions of lives in a negative way. And I have thought to myself, I don't know how many times, I am too much of a coward to be in the shoes of Rubio or Trump because I would out of responsibility. You know what I mean? I would be like, this affects so many people. I don't know if I'm qualified to be the one to make the decision. And it takes a special person. If you can take it out of arrogance and keep it under control, it does take a special kind of person that can look at all of it and go, go. No, we're doing that. Otherwise you would just. You'd be bouncing around over and over again and not. And not accomplishing anything. He is really good or bad. He is bold and making decisions that I would never want to be around. Never. Can't imagine it. I'd never sleep.

Author/Historian Consultant (44:14)

Yes. I mean, look, I think that the. I specifically do not write about politics. No one has any idea what my political affiliations are. I wanted to tell you about what happened and what is happening and hopefully let people make their own decisions about things. But I believe that it's really important for the citizenry to continue to have an objective. Like, I would hope that people would be like, maybe I can benefit from being a little less tribal.

Glenn Beck (44:43)

Yes, right. Yes.

Author/Historian Consultant (44:44)

Then you can look back through the lens of history and maybe find eras, errors where, you know, the course needed to be corrected and where America has gone astray in its leadership and then how to get back toward, you know, a better way forward. But with that said, and what we have been discussing is that you also have this situation where, whereby the world, all of us, all of us on this, the world is changing so rapidly because. Because of the momentum of technology, that everybody has to step up and recognize that decisions need to be made about the direction of some of these major national security issues in an expedited manner. And that's the real problem with the Congress. You have this old sort of lethargic that can't get anything done. And meanwhile, the world is moving forward at lightning speed. And so then that just gives the executive more power, the President's lean. Lean on his ability to create executive orders and do what the perception of the White House needs to be done.

Glenn Beck (45:57)

I found myself recently saying over and over again before a monologue, please take off your team jersey. We are facing things that are so consequential that you cannot think about it with a team jersey. You have to be rational. You have to know history. I did a monologue recently on the Insurrection act, and I went back to Shays Rebellion because I know the founders did not like authoritarianism. They didn't. But they were also afraid of tyranny coming in a mob or tyranny coming with the banner of liberty, you know what I mean? And that is really tough to balance those two. And with the Whiskey Rebellion and Che's Rebellion, they sent in the troops. And as I'm reading the Constitution, it seems pretty clear to me, at least. But you have to be so careful. I mean, they were. If you read the words of George Washington on the Whiskey, Whiskey Rebellion, I mean, he was very, very careful. He did not want to do that because he didn't want to send the wrong signal to people. You know, that, yep, we're the big state coming in. He was so against that, but yet he rode in with the troops himself to put it down. You know, how do you. How do you view the things that we are going through now? I see this as a completely different time in America. This is one that people that do what you do are going to be studying for maybe centuries. This is such a pivotal time in world history.

Author/Historian Consultant (47:57)

Well, the two differences right now between now and then, most particularly, which we've been discussing, have to do with speed of action, speed of participation, and the degree of force involved, the degree of lethality. Right. And you know, you see that right now inside America, and that's the. I couldn't agree with you more that the team jerseys need to come off because the. The danger of, you know, being blinded literally by wanting your. Your team to win is profoundly undemocratic. You would want to be curious and say, well, those guys are right about that, but I disagree with that. And that. And that is not what we see happening with.

Glenn Beck (48:48)

Or almost. Or almost. Just as if not more importantly, they're right about this, wrong about that. What does the Constitution say? I mean, are. My team is team constitution and team Bill of Rights. You know, that's the team. Because that's what's gotten us through all of these really tough times. And the minute we start playing with that or not taking that seriously, the entire thing falls apart. And you're not America, so it doesn't matter if your team wins or not, because you're not what we were created to be.

Author/Historian Consultant (49:25)

Well, I appreciate that a lot. I think in any situation, you want to have your norms, North Star. You want to have your guiding principles. You want to be able to refer to a set of, you know, organized ideas so that you can, you know, course correct your own potential tribalism, which is also in our DNA. I mean, we wouldn't have survived if we. If we. If we weren't a bit tribal and we didn't sort of have a little bit of protect your own. And so this is. This is the balance.

Glenn Beck (49:58)

Except we were always. We were always, always e pluribus unum. For the most part, we've had tribalism break us apart. But we usually came back to the one thing that brought us together and that was the Constitution and Bill of Rights, the understanding. My father used to say this all the time. I will argue against your point of view till the day I die. I think you are completely wrong, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it. And we've lost that. We've lost that. You know, I have no problem if you want to protest, and maybe you can take us through the Insurrection act, what it gives the president authority to do and not do here. But I don't ever want to stifle protest. I don't ever want to pick people up because they're protesting this or that. But the minute, as I read it, the minute you obstruct the federal government from doing its due course and you are using violent means to do that, you've kind of backed the government into a corner to where, well, what am I going to do? Stop doing our job? I mean, how else do you react to that? Can you go through the Insurrection Act a bit?

Author/Historian Consultant (51:18)

Yeah. I think the easiest way for people to understand because sometimes you just want it to be simple. It's like, boil it down. That's why I go to the smartest people room, is they make this simple for me to understand. Understand. The Insurrection act allows the president to use military force inside the United States of America. That's just the simplest, clearest and most important component of it. The National Guard is there to function at the behest of the governor until, you know, and then you get into Title 10 versus Title 32. Here's where a lot of people's eyes glaze over. So we won't. But once the president says, I'm declaring the Insurrection act, all sort of states bets are off the table. All state authority is in deference now to the military. And if the military moves in following the directives of the president, the authorization of military force is on the table. And soldiers are trained in very specific ways. Just look how. And the battle.

Glenn Beck (52:28)

Yeah, they are not a police force. They're not a police. And. And here's where in. Here's where, you know, because I was reading about, you know, the Shay rebellion and, you know, they made that decision because the courts were being threatened, and so they couldn't do the regular business of the state. And for the military to come in and put a rebellion down down is scary because you just don't want to open that can of worms. But it is at times necessary, probably. But it's very specific that the state, its functions cannot. They are not functioning well. Like take Minnesota. The courts are still working, working. The police are still working. They're just not working. You know, I saw the three Somalis that beat the guy with a snow shovel, and it was ICE that arrested him, not the police in the city. And I wondered, is that a sign that the police are not working and fulfilling their job? I don't know. I mean, it's. I don't know if we're going to get a clear answer, which is really.

Author/Historian Consultant (53:48)

That's horrible. Well, let's go back in time for a minute here. I think the last time that the Insurrection act was in a, you know, was called upon was in 1993 here in Los Angeles, my hometown, during the riots, I was here. And to your point, the police simply could not handle the situation. And so the president authorized the military to basically return Los Angeles to. To the control of the state.

Glenn Beck (54:21)

Right.

Author/Historian Consultant (54:22)

And that is not the situation that you're saying right now.

Glenn Beck (54:25)

Yeah, right. Because it's not that the police can't. They're not. And so then you get into. Well, I mean, do you think that this road started when we started to accept sanctuary cities and that could be on pot or whatever, things that we thought were no big deal, you know, even sanctuary cities for immigrants. Immigrants. We all kind of just went, well, that's California or that's Berkeley or whatever. But once a state and a city decide they can pick and choose the federal laws, instead of changing, working to change the laws as the system is supposed to be, that the end result of that eventually is conflict between the state or the city and the federal government. Because at some point, point, if it comes to a head, somebody's got to make the decision.

Author/Historian Consultant (55:19)

Of course. And what you're talking about right now in this situation would be, you need the, you know, the, the phrase cooler heads will prevail comes to mind.

Glenn Beck (55:28)

Yeah.

Author/Historian Consultant (55:28)

And that is not what is happening. What is happening is that the states, you know, the governor is baiting the executive branch, the President in particular, you know, and the president has taken the bait and has responded. And so it is very dangerous. It is a very dangerous situation. I saw the press conference by Governor Walz when the first press conference he gave, and he said something that shocked me. And I'm paraphrasing, you know, we have never been at war with the federal government. And if I'm not mistaken, he used the actual word.

Glenn Beck (56:09)

He did, and he said civil war. And he also said, he referred to, and I don't remember his exact language, but he referred to, we are training the National Guard for these actions, which is completely unconstitutional. I don't think he actually meant that. I mean, I don't know why he might have just said it to bait or I don't know. But he said things that I have never heard from a governor. Again, that just to me, when I heard that speech, I thought, he's not calling on the National Guard. He is. He is activating the citizen National Guard. He is. He is saying, my people that run my team Jersey, I need you to do the things that the National Guard can't do.

Author/Historian Consultant (56:53)

Yes. And then the president did the same thing, either last night or today, whereby he used some Incendiary language, you know, calling upon, we're coming for you. I mean, this is. This is truly bananas, you know, and then you have the governor using the word atrocity.

Glenn Beck (57:10)

Yes.

Author/Historian Consultant (57:11)

Which can only remind any of us of World War II, which is a really poor word choice. So you have, you know, poor, poor word choices coming out of the mouths of the people who are supposed to be restoring order and paying attention to the North Star of the Constitution, instead acting like children in a sandbox. I say that as a mother who watched this. These kind of things happen, literally. And yet the power and the responsibility of these offices is just being ignored. To my opinion on both parties.

Glenn Beck (57:46)

Yeah. I tell you, I. You know, when they were talking about arresting Bill and Hillary Clinton, I. What are you thinking? First of all, it's to get answers on Epstein. And we all know you're never going to get answers on Epstein. You don't have anything except a flight log. I mean, if you had stuff, maybe, but you don't have stuff to. We're not. That is just baiting. Just baiting. And, you know, I said, look, if you want to go, you know, on Gazprom or any. Anything Clinton initiative and you have evidence, then what has to happen is it needs to go over to the DOJ and somebody who's an adult needs to stand with a long, boring list and say, here are the charges. Here. Here is the evidence. This is not personal. It's not revenge. It is based on the law of these charges. You don't put the GOP or the DNC calling somebody in for questioning and then throw them in jail. I mean, it just seems like that's a dream come true for the Clintons. If you really wanted to really stir things up, do me another favor. Can you arrest her at the same time you arrest me? It's crazy. It's crazy. Gotta stop.

Author/Historian Consultant (59:09)

I wonder, you know, it's so important to have people in your orbit that give you counsel that you might not necessarily like at first blush.

Glenn Beck (59:21)

It's vital.

Author/Historian Consultant (59:23)

And so it seems to me that, you know, the word sycophant always comes to mind because you see it. I see it happen around many powerful people where they just isolate themselves or insulate themselves with opinions by people from people that are only really looking out for their own interests. And I can't help but feel like when the jersey just is on and will not come off the team jersey, it's because that person is lacking any kind of, you know, outside counsel, for lack of a better phrase.

Glenn Beck (60:04)

Well, we're not in a place, you know. You know, when I did that monologue, I looked at my executive producer and said, well, this is not going to make me popular with the die Hard, you know, Team Jersey, you know, because there's a lot of people that feel I arrest them. We know they're guilty of something. You know, that's not what you do, but that's how people feel. Same thing with, with Minnesota. They think that Donald Trump is, you know, an authoritarian now, that he's going to change their mind. And so there's no reason happening behind it, any of them, that. But to save our nation, you have to have people that will say, but here's the key. Honest people that disagree with you, honestly, that will say, Mr. President, I don't agree with you on a lot of stuff. I respect you, I respect the office. I am not playing for a team. I'm playing for principles here. And you have to consider these principles. I don't know any smart or reasonable person that is against that. But we've lost the ability for people at the second tier, it feels to be that kind of person. You know, they are sycophants. We need people of real courage to walk into a room like that and say, I know you're the most powerful person in the world and I respect you on this, this and this, but I disagree on this. I mean, well, probably the best conversation I ever had with Donald Trump was on trade. I disagree with him on trade and it was amazing. He said, okay, so what is the problem with trade? And I expected just a little thing. We had about a 25, 30 minute talk. He listened, he repeated the things back. So he really, I knew he was listening and understanding. And then at the end, I expected him to say what all politicians and say, you know, I'm going to take that under advice. I'm going to look into that, knowing that he wasn't going to. You know what I mean? But he listened and he said, glenn, nothing you said I haven't thought of already. I've been thinking about this my whole life, so I'm not going to change. But I appreciate the exchange. And I thought that's what I want from somebody in leadership. I want somebody to listen, tell me that they've already thought about these things and know that that is true, and then tell me the truth when I walk out the door. I'm not going to do that. Great, great. Thank you for the honesty. We just have to find more people that will do that. There comes a point where everybody, everybody starts to feel sore. You know your body is offering unhelpful feedback. Usually, usually at inconvenient times. You stand up and something like all of a sudden you're like, hey, that's not good. You reach for the floor thinking that Jesus might be calling you home. This is why you should trust. Relief factor. It's why I take Relief factor. It's not about pretending you're 20 again or powering through things like nothing hurts. It's about supporting your body where a lot of these issues start inflammation. So a movement doesn't feel like a negotiation every time you change position. This is a daily supplement and that really matters because real improvement usually shows up gradually and naturally. And I know that's the way it happened for me. So one day you realize you got through the morning without even thinking about it. You stood up, walked around, sat back down without making a creaking sound. That worried the dog. Relief factor. 100% drug free. It targets inflammation that causes pain so you can move better, feel better and actually enjoy life. Life again. Try the three week quick start. It's 1995. Go to relieffactor.com or call 800 for relief. 800 the number for relief. Let's see if you're next in getting out of pain. New CBS Sunday. History will be made live, Unfiltered, unexpected, Bigger than ever. Bigger stars, bigger performances. Music's bigger is getting bigger. Now you see what all the hype is about. Trevor Noah hosts the Grammy awards live. Anything is possible. CBS Sunday and streaming on Paramount. Plus, the FBI has been warning about a type of real estate fraud on the rise called title theft. And your equity is the target. And here's how it works. Criminals will forge your signature on a single document. One, they use a fake notary stamp and they file it with the county. And just like that, on record, they own your home. Now using your home ownership, they take out loans against the equity or even sell your property. You won't know about it until foreclosure or collection notices start showing up in the mail. Find out today if you're already a victim and stop this from happening. Use the promo code glennometitlelock.com and you'll get a free title history report and a free trial of their million dollar dollar triple lock protection. That's 24,7 monitoring of your title records, urgent alerts if any changes are made and fraud occurs. If it does occur, they have a US based restoration team that'll spend up to a million dollars to fix it. So don't be A victim. Protect your equity today. Go to hometitlelock.com use the promo code Glenn. Get a free title history report and a free trial of their triple lock protection. Hometitlelock.com promo code Glenn. This year's tax changes better not get caught snoozing. Miss one deduction, lose thousands. Not amusing.

Author/Historian Consultant (65:41)

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Glenn Beck (65:46)

Don't worry, tax filers, if money is tight, get $100 from Jackson Hewitt so you'll sleep better at night. Limited time offer for new clients. Participating locations only. Details@jacksonhewitt.com Let me. Let me ask you, because I was curious on going back to Greenland in reading your book, and I have heard so many people recently say, no, you know what? We have these. We have this defense system that can shoot those missiles out of the sky. And I thought, have you read Annie's book? Because that ain't true. And then I heard the President say, we need the Golden Dome. We need. Need Greenland for the Golden Dome. Is any of that technology real for.

Author/Historian Consultant (66:33)

Nuclear missiles you're speaking specifically about? Can we shoot? Will the Golden Dome intercept?

Glenn Beck (66:42)

Yeah. What's the difference between what we say we have that? You in your book show? That's garbage. What's the difference between that and this new thing called the Golden Dome? For intercontinental ballistic missiles.

Author/Historian Consultant (66:57)

Yes. So to be clear, what we have now are interceptor missiles that are ground on the ground, and they fire at an incoming ICBM. Ideally making contact with the warhead 500 miles up in space.

Glenn Beck (67:14)

Crazy.

Author/Historian Consultant (67:15)

Okay, that's what an interceptor system is. It's got about a 50% success rate. There are 44 of them. That's going to do nothing against a thousand incoming itbc. The Golden Dome, again, simplifying it down is sort of the 21st century version of Ronald Reagan's Star wars program, the Strategic Defense Initiative, which was the idea that you would put, you know, systems in space. And I use that word systems because that is where you're getting into the classifications that you or I cannot know about. Glenn, people who claim to know about this are just, you know, wagging their tail. That is just. I know the people, I have interviewed, the people in the defense companies like Andura, who are working on these components. And the closest thing we, the citizenry, can ever get to this, who are not top secret cleared, is that maybe they involve cube satellites. Okay? So systems in space that are directing, you know, other systems to shoot down an incoming ic. My guess Is that is laser technology. That is what would make sense. Okay, so would that work? This is a classic situation where we do not know. We will not know until these systems are declassified. And so, yes, one side of the argument is this is just a military industrial complex trillion dollar swindle to give a lot of money to the defense industry to posture against China, Russia, North Korea, etc. That we can take down their incoming ICBMs should they come our way. And the other side of the argument is, oh no, we actually have an advanced technology system maybe involving cubesats that could do this. We don't know.

Glenn Beck (69:14)

We don't know.

Author/Historian Consultant (69:15)

Just simply don't know.

Glenn Beck (69:17)

I will tell you, I think I've seen China demonstrate laser technology on missiles. That was pretty remarkable. I don't know if it's real or not, but it was. It's pretty remarkable.

Author/Historian Consultant (69:28)

Well, this is a very real threat. And there was an executive order that came out of the White House in December which went completely under the radar, but is super significant because it specifically addresses what a threat space is in terms of nuclear weaponry.

Glenn Beck (69:46)

Yeah.

Author/Historian Consultant (69:46)

And. And without getting too into the weeds, you know, from reading Nuclear War A Scenario. Thank you for reading. Thank you for asking the President. You know, I talk about how there was the very serious possibility that North Korea had or could send a small nuclear warhead into space disguised as a satellite and it would be orbiting the globe. And that were that specific, you know, nuclear small warhead were to detonate 300 miles directly over the United States of America. It would be what is called electric Armageddon. It would take out the entire power grid. That is not a fantasy, that is a fact. And so the President wrote an EO to address exactly that kind of a threat. And I think that is very intriguing.

Glenn Beck (70:42)

Let me end this. I could talk to you forever and I can't thank you enough for coming on again. But let me end this with something that I thought of again on Venezuela and that was the President said that the Space Force was involved.

Author/Historian Consultant (71:00)

Yes, they were.

Glenn Beck (71:01)

Do you know how?

Author/Historian Consultant (71:03)

Yes, because the Space Force is in charge of looking at all of or conducting all ISR intelligence surveillance. And then that leads to reconnaissance from space, from satellites. Because the remarkable abilities from what a camera can see from hundreds of miles up down on the ground.

Glenn Beck (71:23)

Yeah.

Author/Historian Consultant (71:24)

Is astonishing. That's why that is all classified. That's why I always put my money on NRO as the most important intelligence agency that no one ever talks about.

Glenn Beck (71:36)

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your. Our conversations. God Bless. Bless you. Thanks.

Author/Historian Consultant (71:41)

Thank you for having me.

Glenn Beck (71:48)

Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend so it can be discovered by other people. Sam.