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- [00:04]
UBS Narrator
Craft matters in small ways, like how a coffee is brewed, and in not so small ways, like how your money is cared for. Which is why for 160 years, UBS has elevated banking to a craft, tailoring unique strategies that combine human expertise with the latest technologies, all happening across 24 time zones and and 12 key financial hubs. With you at the heart of it all, UBS advice is our craft.
- [00:38]
Chris Chermack
You're listening to the Globalist, first broadcast on the 11th of December, 2025 on Monocle Radio. The Globalist in association with U. Live from London. This is THE Globalist. I'm Chris Chermack. Coming up, the US Is backing its ally Japan after a Chinese carrier allegedly locked radars on Japanese fighter jets. Russia is also involved in the escalating tensions in the region and will have the latest after that.
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Chiara Mella
Tonight, history was made.
- [01:29]
Mark Adelman
Our city chose a new direction.
- [01:33]
Chris Chermack
Right. U.S. democrats take the city of Miami for the first time in nearly three decades. We'll ask whether or not the tide is turning against Donald Trump as well. We'll also hear from Belgrade, where authorities are promising to finally give the city a metro. And then it's over to our resident Italians, including Anita Riota.
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Anita Riotta
Well, Chris, we're going to see why Italian paper La Repubblica published an article with the lead if Carbonara had legs, it would be jumping for joy.
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Chris Chermack
Thanks very much, Anita. We'll be joined by Chiara Remela as well. And then a look at whether Europe is finally entering the space race. That's all ahead on the Globalist, live from London. And welcome to this Thursday edition of THE Globalist. First, a look at what else is happening in the news. The opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado, has left Venezuela and arrived in Norway just hours after the ceremony awarding her the Nobel Peace Prize. Russia says that Ukraine has launched a major drone attack on regions within its country, including the capital, Moscow. And in Honduras, a body of Congress has vowed not to recognize election results that remain on a knife's edge, citing interference from US President Trump. Stay tuned to Monocle Radio throughout the day for more on those stories. But first, this past weekend saw the escalation of a conflict between China and Japan. The Chinese carrier allegedly locked radars on two Japanese fighter jets twice in the space of around 30 minutes. Japan summoned China's ambassador to explain the maneuver that Beijing has denied took place, though it does claim the fighter jets were harassing its carrier. Earlier this week, Russian and Chinese fighter jets also carried out exercises, prompting a show of force from the US And Japan with Bombers and jets taking to the air today. All of this is a reminder that some dormant conflicts are just the press of a button away from becoming extremely active. And I'm joined now by Tomohiko Taniguchi, former special advisor to the cabinet of Shinzo Abe and Isabel Hilton, founder of China Dialogue and a visiting professor at King's College London, London's Lao Institute. Good to have you both on the show. And I'm going to start with you, Tomohiko. How serious an escalation in your mind is all of this?
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Tomohiko Taniguchi
It appears to be very much serious, but I've got a memory about what happened 20 years ago in 2005. At that time, the Chinese, in opposition to Japan's bid for the permanent security membership, Security Council membership of the UN allowed mobs to destroy Japanese owned factories, shops and they even tried to destroy Consulate General office in Shanghai. Such was the situation was like in 2005. The escalation sort of you are citing now going on between China and Japan is not so much serious in my own eyes.
- [04:51]
Chris Chermack
Well, I guess that's somewhat reassuring. Isabel, what is your take? If it's not that serious an escalation? Is it more about China sending a message here, both with its sort of, its sort of flying jets along with Russia, but also this targeting, locking radars on two Japanese fighter jets.
- [05:12]
Isabel Hilton
You know, dangerous games to play. You know, the Chinese have been doing a substantial military exercise around Japan. We have seen repeated military exercises, joint exercises with Russia. And this is all about putting pressure on Japan, which itself has, in a shifting geopolitical landscape, been revising its own defense posture towards away from the traditional pacifist constitution, towards a more proactive approach to its own defense. And this sets up a kind of reaction from the Chinese which again, you know, leads to this kind of incident. And I guess the long term background is that unlike Germany reconciled after the end of World War II and then European Union, this didn't happen in Asia. So what you see in Asia is these conflicts, the conflicts of World War II, the historical conflicts coming back as waves of nationalism hit in different countries. So Japan is an absolutely standard target for China. Nationalist moments and the occupation of World War II by Japan of parts of China and the atrocities committed have been memorialized relentlessly. So it's easy to trigger this kind of thing and it's quite dangerous.
- [06:38]
Chris Chermack
Tomohiko, I mean both of you and Isabel have hearkened back to other times, which shows just how long these tensions have been around between China and Japan, of course as well. I'm curious what your position is on the US Here too. They have gotten involved this week. There have been these flights with bombers and Japanese jets taking off today. Is there any surprise over that? Is that something that Japan will welcome given that, you know, we don't always know exactly what the Trump administration is going to be doing?
- [07:13]
Tomohiko Taniguchi
Trump administration seems to be extra cautious in alienating China in the run up to the planned G2 so called summit between Xi and Donald Trump. But in this situation, the fact that the United States stepped in even in a restrained manner reflects Washington's judgment that China's growing overconfidence could cause real damage to the U. S Japan military alliance. In effect, they gently signaled that this is where the red line temporarily lies.
- [07:53]
Chris Chermack
And Tomohiko to stay with you for a moment. I mean, will Japanese Prime Minister be considering, I wonder, maybe not regretting, but wondering about her remarks. This is perhaps also what has led to some of this escalation from China about Japan's role in the event of a conflict in Taiwan at this point. Is that something that is seen in Japan as kind of escalating these tensions with China?
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Tomohiko Taniguchi
The short answer to your question, Chris, is no, because Japanese law explicitly states that, that if a country with which Japan has deep ties, namely the United States, comes under attack in areas close to Japan, and if that attack can reasonably be expected to inflict grave harm on Japan's own security, then Japan may take integrated military action together with the United States. The Prime Minister merely pointed to that provision while citing the law itself. To retreat from that position would be to repudiate the very meaning of the statute, which I think is simply not an option.
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Chris Chermack
And Isabel, what's interesting to me perhaps is that it would be easy to forget some of these territorial claims because there is so much focus on Taiwan these days. Of course, is there a chance, I mean, these exercises and these tensions are taking place over the Sea of Japan. Is there a chance that China would actually be willing to start a conflict over some of its other territorial claims?
- [09:30]
Isabel Hilton
I'm not sure about a direct conflict, but certainly these aggressive postures, and we've seen this again before with Russia and China doing military exercises. They both have territorial claims against Japan, which of course Japan, Japan does not recognize. The big one, however, does remain Taiwan. And I think that Minister Takaichi's comment may not be out of line with Japanese policy. Saying the quiet bit out loud, the diplomatic action or a non diplomatic action in this case. And given the ambition, the stated ambition from Xi Jinping to recover as they would see at Taiwan, I think was bound to trigger a very strong response. And it has. The challenge now is to get this response and the counter actions under control before something worse happens.
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Chris Chermack
And Tomohiko, just finally from your perspective, Isabelle, noted earlier on Japan's constitution, it's the self defense clause that that's being reinterpreted to some degree. I wonder if these kinds of escalations in the Sea of Japan, these tensions with China, might lead to a further reinterpretation of Japan's military role.
- [10:57]
Tomohiko Taniguchi
Japan's government under the previous administrations and the current administration made a clear pledge that Japan needs to spend much, much more on defense soon. The target of 2% as opposed to the nation's GDP is going to be fulfilled sooner than planned, but it's not sufficient. The Japanese government is going to accelerate its process of building its defense capacities. One thing that I should say is that weakness provokes more threat, weakness provokes.
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Isabel Hilton
More.
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Tomohiko Taniguchi
Intimidations, if you like, from China. That's the language, that's the grammar you must speak with when dealing with China.
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Chris Chermack
Just to follow up quickly on that, Tomohiko, the one side of this is increased defense spending, but the other side perhaps is whether there would be a change in what Japan spends its money on. The constitution states it's fine to engage in self defense. Is there any chance that there might be something more closer to offensive weapons.
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Tomohiko Taniguchi
Being considered offensive weapons? It is called anti long range missile capacities. Long range missile capacities. And I think the capacity is going to grow both in number and in capacity. Actually Japan is going to spend so much amount of money on buying US Made Tomahawk cruise missiles that could reach deep into the Chinese territory.
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Chris Chermack
Tomohiko Taniguchi in Tokyo and Isabel Hilton, founder of China Dialogue. Thank you very much both of you for joining us today. This is the Globalist. We'll head next to Miami, where this week a closely watched mayoral election led to the first Democratic candidate being elected in the city in some 28 years. Florida, the state that Miami is in, has been a stranglehold for conservatives for just about all of this millennium. But is the tide turning with the election of Eileen Higgins? And what does that say about the party's momentum heading into the midterm congressional elections next year? Well, I'm joined now by the long standing campaign and communications consultant to the US Democrats, Mark Adelman. Mark, good to have you back on the show.
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Mark Adelman
Thanks so much for having me. Good to be here.
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Chris Chermack
I wonder if we could step back for a moment and even if you are not in Florida yourself. Explain briefly, if you could, some of the peculiarities, politically speaking, around Miami and Florida, because it's a very different kettle corn to the United States or the rest of the U.S. it sure is.
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Mark Adelman
I mean, Florida used to be a reliably swing state, and, you know, even years earlier, it was a, a blue state in many cases. And over the last, I would say 15 years, it has become redder and redder and redder. And, you know, South Miami is made up of a lot of folks from Latin America, and these tend to be more Cuban Americans, Venezuelan Americans, Brazilian Americans, folks that are coming from, I would say, a different sort of set of context in how they view their countries versus maybe people that come on the west coast, which are also from Latin America. But you have a lot more people from Mexico. And for example, you know, Cuba, of course, has had a dictatorship, you know, since the late 1950s. And people who have left Cuba did so under, you know, really trying and tough circumstances. And, you know, tend to vote more conservatively. You see what's going on in Venezuela right now, what's gone over the last 15, 20 years as well. That voting block in South Florida tends to vote a little more red than blue. And then, of course, you know, you can't really make sweeping judgments about any demographic. But when you do look at sort of voting overall, I would say 2024 also has a lot of exceptions to sort of extrapolate. Latino voters do tend to vote more Democrat than Republican, although that was a little bit different in 2024.
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Chris Chermack
Also, talking more generally to extrapolate to the U.S. i mean, one can always make too much of a local election victory like this because of some of the differences, say, that you outlined there. But in this case, Democrats did flip a seat, if you will, in Miami compared to, say, the various elections we had last month. New York, Virginia, New Jersey, these were all elections where Democrats held ground in strongholds. So in that context, how significant is this victory?
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Mark Adelman
Well, look, every election is about that election and is certainly the best poll of the moment. It is a snapshot of that day. And what I would say is what you saw in Miami yesterday was something that hadn't been done in nearly 25 years. The last Democratic mayor was in 1997 in Miami. So we've broken some history with that. The first female mayor of Miami as well, which is, I think, also a really important milestone to mark. And I think if you look at all the elections you just mentioned, and there was also some local elections in the state of Georgia over The last few weeks, these signs that were all pointing red, red, red a year ago when Donald Trump was reelected in 2024, you know, seem to be moving a little bit. And what, what you can sort of take from, if you are trying to do a trend map, if you will, is that voters are, are definitely not looking at the map as much as a, you know, we want to continue what we're hearing from Republicans. We want to continue to uphold the policies that Republicans are either putting in front of us or talking about putting in front of us. And then culturally, what I think has gone on over the last year also is, I think, you know, very scary to a lot of people that are watching their TVs and reading their papers. And even if they're not doing either of those things, there is a definite change in the, the feel of the country. And I guess I would lastly say is, you know, look, Trump has now been, you know, he was elected over a year ago. He will, you know, be president officially a year on January 20th. This is his economy now. This is his country. And it's hard to look at other people like Joe Biden or Barack Obama and say, hey, you know, that's, that's those guys fault. You know, Trump kind of owns this wholly now. And so I think you're seeing some of the extrapolations from that in these local races.
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Chris Chermack
Just tell us more about that economic side because as you say, even if this is now Donald Trump's economy, he this week has still been trying to shift blame. He's on this so called affordability tour. But ridiculing the word itself, calling affordability crisis a hoax. There is always a risk that Trump succeeds in convincing his voters with that kind of rhetoric. But are Democrats confident they can use a term like affordability and the reality of affordability heading into the midterms?
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Mark Adelman
Well, I think, look, affordability is definitely the Las Vegas neon sign that's flashing. I think affordability is not just a concept. It's how you feel and what you feel in your life every day. And what Americans feel across the board right now is things are more expensive. Tariffs that nobody really understands what works and what doesn't and what is in place and what is not are making things more expensive. We always sort of talk about the price of eggs and I wish we wouldn't say the price of eggs because what do you do with eggs? You make your kid's birthday cake. So can you afford making a kid's birthday cake today? Could you make it a year ago? Are you going to be able to make it a year from now. And, you know, housing is a prevalent problem that has really been under all administrations over the last 15, 20 years, since 2008 and the economic crash. We aren't building enough homes. We don't have enough places for people to live, and we don't have enough places for people to feel safe, I think, and sort of put their roots down in what, you know, we used to sort of call the American dream. I think it's interesting, you know, Donald Trump usually is very good viscerally into tapping in what people feel. And this is, I think, a very interesting place where he finds himself in, because the country does not feel that way. I can tell you that living here. I live in Los Angeles, but I've spent the last three months here in Massachusetts. And, you know, things feel more expensive and there is just sort of a prevailing wind that does not feel like it's at our backs right now. And part of, you know, you learned a lot if you go back in history to people like Bill Clinton, you know, you want your leaders to feel your pain and understand and connect with it. And so when Trump is sort of out there kind of saying, you know, it's a hoax and it's a talking point that doesn't match with what people are actually feeling on the ground. Obviously, with the government shutdown over the fall and the subsidies that the Affordable Care act or also known as Obamacare has, you know, created or is basically being taken away, you know, people are going to really feel that in the next, you know, month or two once their premiums start to go up. So it just feels like everything is getting more expensive. Products that you want you can't get as easily. And nobody understands sort of what the actual plan or process is. And so, you know, Democrats, I think are, if you're looking at what happened in New Jersey, certainly if you're looking at what happened in New York City with Mondami and Virginia and in Florida yesterday, there is something that's going on. It feels different to people that these are leaders that actually have different ideas and they're communicating them in a different way. And to borrow Bill Clinton's phrase, they're feeling their pain.
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Chris Chermack
Mark Edelman, consultant for the U.S. democrats, thank you very much as always for joining us. Still to come in the program, Lovely train sound there, we'll hear whether Belgrade will finally get a new metro. This is the globalist.
- [22:17]
UBS Narrator
Craft is a matter of perspective, a unique outlook, an obsessive attention to detail. With UBS's Chief Investment Office House View. We're focused on identifying the latest investment opportunities and market risks to help you achieve your financial goals. So you get the big picture broken down into thought provoking insights. Deliver daily and Curated by over 200 globally connected, locally active analysts, UBS Banking is our craft.
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Chris Chermack
Well, let's continue with today's newspapers now. And joining me in the studio is Nina Dos Santos, international broadcast correspondent and the former CNN Europe editor. Good morning, Nina. How are you?
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Nina Dos Santos
Good morning.
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Chris Chermack
It's good to have you here for my occasional hosting of the Globalist. How are we feeling this morning?
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Nina Dos Santos
Yeah, I heard your dulcet tones when the show started and that was great, great surprise. So it's really nice to be here. I'm, I'm fine. Coming back from a couple of furious weeks in Brussels and Berlin, sort of gauging how things are going vis a vis how the United States recent national security strategy has gone down among European politicians. You can imagine, I'm guessing sort of choking on their coffee in Berlin they were that day. And also how efforts to try and support Ukraine have been going. We now have potentially the release of these hundreds of billions of dollars worth of frozen Russian assets. Let's see whether that's rubber stamped at an upcoming EU summit on the 18th of this very month.
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Chris Chermack
Well, exactly. That'll be next week and I'm sure we'll be having lots of comment on that as well. But for today, we did want to start in Venezuela, something I mentioned at the top of the show briefly as well, there's been a going on. We've got Maria Karina Machado in Norway. But also just what's happening off the coast of Venezuela. This oil tanker that has been seized.
- [24:15]
Nina Dos Santos
Yes, that's right. In dramatic fashion. And never one for missing any time on the airwaves. The Trump administration has issued not one, but two different videos, one from the Department of Homeland Security, which has included a famous rap song. Obviously they're quite famous for poaching musicians music and accompanying it to some of their videos and sometimes gotten into hot water for that, no pun intended. And then there's also this other video that's been put out by the US Coast Guard showing US Soldiers essentially descending from a helicopter onto this oil tanker. Now, the Department of Justice over in the United States says that or Attorney general says that this is a particular vessel that has long been breaching U.S. sanctions for smuggling Venezuelan and Iranian embargoed oil. So that this had been coming for quite some time. But it is a very dramatic escalation in America's ongoing, well, effective de facto war with what they consider to be an illegitimate narco trafficking government of Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela. It's happened just off the coast of the country. And the big question here is what now?
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Chris Chermack
This is of course, the next escalation in this conflict that's been going on with all of these different military vessels of the US in the waters around Venezuela. But also when it comes to the oil, I found it interesting, I don't know, surprising or not, that when Donald Trump was asked what will happen with it, he just said, well, we'll keep it, I guess.
- [25:51]
Nina Dos Santos
Yes, well, that sets a really dangerous and interesting precedent, doesn't it? Because obviously Venezuela is home to the biggest, you know, some of the biggest oil reserves in the entire planet. And there will be lots of will be concerned perhaps in that country that even if they do want a change of government, they might not necessarily want a change of government forcibly imposed upon them by the United States. There'll be other Latin American countries who also have concerns about the history of the United States meddling in Latin American countries and forcibly sort of encouraging governments to step down or pushing them out. And obviously we remember the history of the wars in Iraq where obviously that was a petro state as well. There will be uncomfortable feelings about this idea that the United States might be eyeing regime change in Caracas largely because of its oil riches. One thing I would say though is that the oil price at the moment at 60 odd dollars a barrel is way off the highs 15, 18 years ago when I remember having to break the news that it was at 127 47. So it's not worth quite what it was, but it is quite significant as an upscale of US Military might in this part of the world. Obviously the United States has now stationed big US Warships in this part of the world. And there's real concerns that Venezuela obviously is in the eyes not just of the Department of War and Pete Hegseth, but also in the eyes of the U.S. economic military machine as well. And the U.S. as we know, has not been shy to use its economic heft and leverage as well, even with other countries that it it doesn't have tense relations with, like for instance, Venezuela. I'm thinking about the trade war and its efforts to try and coerce China into doing things differently just a few months ago. So I suppose as I said before, the big question is where does this go? And in the middle of all of this, we've seen in Oslo, the Nobel Prize committee awarding Marina Corrida Corinna Machado, the ally of Edmundo Gonzalez, who it was believed won the last election in Venezuela in 2024 before having to flee to exile. We saw her finally emerge from hiding after being in hiding for a year in Oslo as her daughter accepted that prize on her behalf. So will the United States try and effect regime change with her and her allies? Who knows?
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Chris Chermack
Well, let's move on to something else you brought us because you did mention at the outset, you've been in Berlin and Brussels. They've all been reacting to the national security strategy of the United States. But what you brought is a story, an opinion in the New York Times, what Donald Trump gets right about Europe.
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Nina Dos Santos
Now, I thought this was a really interesting one for the New York Times to publish. And at a time when we keep getting told that we're all being siloed in terms of our opinions and access to different information, I thought this was an interesting one for a famously liberal newspaper to publish, written by Christopher Caldwell, who is a historian and political economist who's written books specifically about Europe and the challenges that it faces as a result of mass migration and illegal migration over the last 15 years or so. If I had to distill his arguments, they're not hugely controversial and punchy, but essentially what he's trying to say here is that this national security strategy, yes, it's been rather awkwardly articulated and in rather sort of Trumpian pugnacious fashion. It is essentially, he claims, reminding Europe that the United States didn't necessarily sign up for the version of Europe that we currently have. And that when the United States got involved in NATO at the end of the Second World War in 1949, it was a very different construct and there was a very different premise. Europe was, you know, a continent that needed rebuilding and a continent whose freedoms had just been saved from, you know, the spectacle of Nazi Germany. And that as a result, it wasn't a political, an awkward political construct that was trampling on European countries identities. This was all about saving European countries identities. And he's saying essentially this is a wake up call. This document actually articulates not that Trump has an issue with the liberal values of Europe, in theory, it's that essentially he wants to remind Europe that, you know, it's on the wrong path if it wants US Support. Now, obviously, the counterargument to that is that the national security strategy has been welcomed by Russia over the last few days. And so there will be a lot of people, I assume, who will be pushing back against this op Ed written by Christopher Caldwell in the New York Times.
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Chris Chermack
Well, Nina, let's move on to something a little bit happier to end. We are nearing the holidays and you've been looking at traditions for Christmas dinners between the UK and France.
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Nina Dos Santos
Yes. First thing that I noticed was the price tag. Well, actually, no, the first thing I noticed was in Le Figaro, which is talking about how Christmas dinners in France are still over €100. But they, they have softened somewhat in terms of the price appreciation. It's kind of flatlined. It was the headline that was champagne, caviar, chocolat, you know, the price of Christmas dinner. And I thought, blink, blink. Oh, well, let's just check the UK version, which came out yesterday, which was turkey and all the trimmings, plus some version of sparkling wine now, which sounds wonderfully appetizing. And I know you've got a Christmas, you know, I'm raising the bar here. But the, the French version comes in at €119, which has softened by 40 cents per, you know, Christmas dinner. The UK version that, that, by the way, €119 is about US$139, whereas the British version is £32.70, which is an appetizing 43. £43, an equivalent for a frozen turkey, three types of vegetables and some variety of sparkling wine. If you're, you might get one of those rather slimy Christmas puddings on the side.
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Chris Chermack
I guess that allows a little bit of spending before hearing that's a good thing, that you have like an extra £50 maybe to spend if you want to go up to the French traditions.
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Nina Dos Santos
Well, no fo for me.
- [32:24]
Chris Chermack
NINA Dos Santos, broadcaster, thank you very much for joining us here in the studio. You're with the Globalist on Monaco Radio. Now here's what else we're keeping an eye on today. Opposition leader Maria Corinna Machado has left Venezuela and arrived in Norway just hours after the ceremony awarding her the Nobel Peace Prize, in spite of a travel ban imposed by Venezuela's government for the past decade that had left her in hiding over the past year. US Forces have, meanwhile seized an oil tanker off the coast of Venezuela. And US President Donald Trump says he expects the US to keep the oil. Venezuela has condemned the move as blatant theft and an act of international piracy. Russia says that Ukraine has launched a major drone attack on regions within its country, including the capital, Moscow. It says at least 287 drones were downed, including at least 40 over the Moscow region. Flights were diverted from all of Moscow's airports and In Honduras, a body of Congress has vowed not to recognize election results that remain on a knife's edge, citing interference from US President Trump, who backed one of the candidates. Honduras elections are in the hands of the country's National Electoral Council, but it is unclear they'll be able to reach a verdict. This is the Globalist. Stay tuned. It is 8:33 in Belgrade, 7:33 here in London. We will head to Serbia now because its capital, Belgrade, has the odd distinction of being the largest European capital without a metro or subway or tube, whatever you might call it where you're listening. Repeated promises to build one have gone unfulfilled over the last century. But now authorities in the city are once again pledging that the first metro will be inaugurated by 2030, after reaching a deal with the French company Alstom. And I'm joined now by Monocle's Balkans correspondent, Guy Delaunay for more on this. Guy, what's the mood in Belgrade? Are we imagining dancing in the streets?
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Guy Delaunay
We are not. Because frankly, if you're a Belgrader and you're alive today, you have definitely heard about a metro project at some point in your life, and you've seen that deadline whiz by as the trains themselves don't. Because as you say, Chris, the first idea for Belgrade Metro was mooted as far back as 23. And by 23, I mean 1923. And over the years, successive projects have been pitched and things have got in the way. Whether that was Second World War, reconstruction after it, the economic crisis of the 80s, the wars of the 90s, or just the sheer shenanigans of this particular century, it just hasn't happened.
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Chris Chermack
So if it is going to happen this time, Guy, how expensive and expansive are we even talking about? I mean, how badly does Belgrade actually need a metro?
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Guy Delaunay
You know, the funny thing is the person in charge of the project said they were going to sign a billion euro contract with Alstom, which is the French expert in building metro systems, and that contract's going to be signed in the coming days. Doesn't sound like a lot, does it? But you know, it is going to take multiple billions of euros to build this particular metro. How badly does the city need it? Well, at the moment, there's a lot of traffic congestion, particularly if you're traveling between the Old Town and New Belgrade. The bridges across the city get very snarled up at peak times, though one could argue that a metro might not be the first solution. You would have to that if you sorted out your public transport system, your trams, your trolley buses, your regular buses, and of course, put in place better provision for cycling and walking and persuaded people to use those. You might be able to alleviate things quite a bit. As it is, the metro line as envisaged has got roots which aren't necessarily going to alleviate that congestion because they go suspiciously close to a lot of new real estate and retail projects developed by well connected people and not particularly close to a lot of the places that people thought would need a metro station.
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Chris Chermack
Just finally, Guy, and quickly, I mean, is this even if the routes then are a matter of controversy, is this also pride at stake for Belgrade, the fact that this city has been left out when so many other European capitals have gone?
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Guy Delaunay
You know, I've heard so many times people in Belgrade say to me, it's ridiculous that the city doesn't have a metro. Look at the other cities in this region. Athens has got one, Budapest has got one, Vienna's got one. Why haven't we got one? So it is absolutely civic pride at play here. Chris.
- [36:59]
Chris Chermack
Guy Delany, Monaco's Balkans correspondent. Thank you very much for joining us today. You're with Monaco Radio. And it is time now for a roundup of news from the world of technology. And for that, I'm joined right here in the studio by Isabel Hamilton, UK Tech editor at Politico. Isabel, good morning.
- [37:27]
Isabel Hamilton
Good morning.
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Chris Chermack
Good to have you here. And we're going to start with the story that we did cover yesterday on this show as well. I know with Australia's social media ban for kids, starting yesterday was the official day. It is interesting seeing headlines today about young kids kind of defying this order. I mean, I don't know what Australia really expected, to be honest.
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Isabel Hamilton
They're inventive, aren't they, children? I think we saw this over the summer as well when the UK brought in age verification, which, you know, was targeted at keeping kids from viewing, you know, inappropriate content, things like porn. And people just immediately found ways around it. You know, they found things like uploading a picture of a video game character, for example, rather than themselves. And, you know, I guess the kids were watching and they can figure things out, can't they?
- [38:16]
Chris Chermack
Is this part of what you're seeing from kids reacting to this, getting around this? Is this gonna give other countries pause as well? Because I'm curious, Obviously a lot of countries are looking at Australia right now and whether this is a good idea or not?
- [38:29]
Isabel Hamilton
Yeah, I think it's really interesting because Australia has got a lot of form in being quite resistant to big tech lobbying. They've brought in laws before that Big Tech really hasn't liked. And they've provided this really interesting sort of legislative model, but this is the most radical thing that they've done so far. And I think that Europe will be watching really closely. There's lots of European countries that have talked about doing something similar. I think the European Commission has also mooted, you know, making some kind of rule that would apply to all of the countries on the block. I think here in the uk, interestingly, they're distancing themselves from this. You know, the Technology Secretary, Liz Kendall, was up in front of a committee recently and they were asking her more broadly about a smartphone ban for kids. And she said that she doesn't really think that's the answer. She doesn't think that you should be booting kids off their phones. And she made a point that I think is quite an interesting one, which is, if you keep a kid, like, completely off the Internet, off social media, until they're 16, and then you hand them a phone and they get a face full of Internet, you know, how do you expect them to cope? And I think that's a fair point, to be fair.
- [39:38]
Chris Chermack
I guess it's the same thing as giving them alcohol at 16. But, yeah, there you go. Related to that, maybe when you mentioned the UK there, because they're sending two ministers, I understand, to Silicon Valley, this is also about tech, or big tech, a UK US tech deal.
- [39:55]
Isabel Hamilton
Yeah, they're hitting the road. This is Liz Kendall, who I just mentioned, and the Trade Secretary, Peter Kyle. And Peter Kyle was already stateside talking to US officials about the uk US Tech. Sorry, the trade deal that they signed. And there is a link here because there was a trade deal that was signed in May and the Economic Prosperity Deal, and then a bit later in September, we had this tech deal. And the tech deal is technically separate, but there's quite a lot of diplomacy in, like, geopolitical theatre going on here. And although the UK signed this trade deal, which was supposed to give them relief from things like tariffs, and it was marked as historical and it was, you know, the beginning of lots of talks about, oh, Keir Starmer, isn't he a Trump whisperer? Isn't he incredible? They're still really far apart on loads of issues with the trade deal. And now as Kyle is over there trying to sort out these really intractable issues, things like steel, things like cars, he's also going and doing this road trip to California with Liz Kendall and really emphasizing how the US UK special relationship extends to tech. And aren't we going to do loads of wonderful things together? So I think there's a real sort of intermingling here of these two things that are supposed to be separate, but in reality they're not.
- [41:07]
Chris Chermack
Well, and this is also because from the US perspective, they really want, obviously Silicon Valley and they want these tech companies, and social media companies for that matter, to have free reign, whether it's in Europe, Australia or the uk.
- [41:20]
Isabel Hamilton
Absolutely. We know, I mean, from right at the beginning of this administration, that Big Tech was positioning itself very closely to the Trump administration. All the CEOs were there at the inauguration. You could really see it sort of physically. When President Trump came here to the UK on his state visit, he was accompanied by Sam Altman, by Jensen Wang. You know, their proximity to power is quite a bit different than the last time around, and I think the UK is painfully aware of that.
- [41:49]
Chris Chermack
Well, moving on to one other story from the US Speaking of big tech, big CEOs in the US, Elon Musk has found himself back in the news for a couple of things. There's also his recent comments about Doge, but we won't get into that for this. SpaceX is reportedly, he suggested thinking about an IPO.
- [42:09]
Isabel Hamilton
Yeah, so the report started coming out yesterday from various places, you know, sources saying that this IPO was brewing and then Elon Musk himself seemed to confirm it on Twitter X whatever you want to call it still. And yeah, I mean, this is pretty massive. SpaceX is supposedly the second biggest private company there is, just after OpenAI, which makes ChatGPT. And the reports have got some pretty big numbers attached. It's, I think perhaps going to raise about 30 billion is the idea. And it would make the company worth over a trillion. It could catapult Elon Musk's net worth into the first trillionaire. I think at the moment he's somewhere around almost there. I think it's 450 billion. So, you know, there's a lot of billions. But yeah, it kind of becomes academic after a point when the numbers get this big. But yes, it could, you know, it would be an enormous IPO. And also, I think really interestingly, SpaceX being privately owned, we don't get much insight into exactly how it works. We don't know for sure how much of it Elon Musk owns. If it were to go public, we would have a lot of this information at our fingertips.
- [43:17]
Chris Chermack
And just quickly on that, is there a reason that there hasn't been an IPO until now? Tesla obviously has already gone to investors. Why not SpaceX?
- [43:25]
Isabel Hamilton
Well, I think that although Tesla, being a publicly traded company has been great for its cash flow, there are aspects of that that Elon Musk really does not like. He really hates short sellers. That's one reason he does not love having to, you know, open up his books and explain himself. And Yeah, I think SpaceX also kind of had good reason to be a bit private. Most of its contracts are with the US government or other governments. And, you know, it does its highly sensitive work, so it didn't really need to be public, but. But yeah, maybe now they're thinking it would be a good thing.
- [44:00]
Chris Chermack
We'll see how that goes. Isabel Hamilton, UK Tech Editor at Politico. Thank you very much for joining us. This is the globalist on Monocle Radio.
- [44:12]
UBS Narrator
Iq, EQ and AI. Three components key to the craft of innovation at ubs. Because to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving age, you need a partner with decades of experience, endless passion for the work, and a finger on the pulse of leading technologies. Bridging human expertise with artificial intelligence, all to elevate you. Ubs. Banking is our craft.
- [44:50]
Chris Chermack
To Italy now, where UNESCO has awarded the nation what everyone already knows to be true, granting Italian cuisine a special protected status. It is, surprisingly enough, the first time that an entire national cuisine has been recognized as an intangible cultural heritage by UNESCO. And to tell us why, I'm joined now by our two resident Italians, Monocle contributor and Confect deputy editor Chiara Mella and Monocle Radio producer Anita Riota. Good morning to you both.
- [45:20]
Chiara Mella
Thank you very much.
- [45:22]
Chris Chermack
So it's a little too early, I guess, to have some Italian cuisine. I don't know if coffee counts. Is that part of Chiara? Do we know?
- [45:29]
Anita Riotta
It's not necessarily espresso counts?
- [45:31]
Chris Chermack
Does an espresso count as cuisine? Okay, so we're in the mood. Chiara, I'm going to start with you. Is this a surprise at all?
- [45:38]
Chiara Mella
Well, yes and no, in the sense that obviously Italian cooking has been celebrated for decades and time immemorial. I would say that my first reaction upon hearing this was a little bit like, hold the attention. You know, UNESCO Cultural Heritage, Intangible Heritage list has awarded Italy quite a few times around the topic of cuisine. You know, we've already got the pizzaioli recognized as like an intangible cultural heritage. The Mediterranean diet is also already on the list. So, you know, somebody, somebody at UNESCO really loves pasta is what I'm saying. But, but, but, but obviously there is like an extra layer to this recognition. I Think, you know, when you talk about the idea of this being the first national cuisine being recognized, I don't think it's just about the quality of the output, although of course I'm a huge fan, I think. And this is also what UNESCO has recognized. It's something more to do with the whole philosophy behind it. It's sort of like a. A structure of thought. You know, Anita, I'm sure that you can relate to this. Like food isn't just like a thing that you eat in Italy. It's the fabric that keeps everything together. It's what really constitutes the core of your familiar relationships, your memories, your connection to a place. You know, often when we talk about wine, we talk about terroir, and people struggle to express that and really what that means. But to me it's very clear because that is the essence of Italian cooking, like all Italian cooking is connected to profoundly and an expression of the place that it comes from, the ingredients and the tradition that goes into making them and the philosophical kind of reflection of where it comes from. So, yeah, I'd say that we have a good reason for being up there. Go on.
- [47:33]
Chris Chermack
It is interesting, Anita, and jumping off of that, maybe explain a little more where this comes from, because as Chiara was saying there, it's already. UNESCO already recognizes individual things, including individual Italian food, even the Mediterranean diet, which is quite funny. So explain kind of what this does. The fact that now Italian cuisine as a whole is given this status.
- [47:56]
Anita Riotta
I think that is exactly the interesting sticking point here. As we were saying, it's not about a dish or even a regional cuisine. It's something more intangible, as the UNESCO list celebrates. But they've said that it's about how Italian cooking is an activity that is intergenerational, that it emphasizes intimacy, that it translates and transitions skills and labors from one generation to another. So they're really trying to get at the heart of that familiarity and that intimacy that Chiara was pointing to. And that's why it also will not mean that you cannot serve a carbonara outside of Rome or outside of Italy. It just. It's trying to get at that sort of culture around food. I will say, and I hope I don't get excommunicated for this one, but I mean, a lot of other cultures have that. A lot of other cultures have long, luxurious meals where you sit for three hours. And that's how Nonna talks to grandbaby, talks to uncle, talks to next door neighbor. And you know, I recognize that as a very Italian thing. Because I am Italian and I do that with my Italian family. But that is a. A Chinese family doesn't do that. A Mexican family doesn't do that. I, I'm. I'm a bit. It's an odd thing to try to really isolate. And the more I read about it, I feel like the more slightly confused I am, I have to say.
- [49:31]
Chiara Mella
It's got to do, I think, with how much the nation itself takes pride in it and, and wants to put its hat on it being representative of itself. So it's a lobbying issue, I think, as much as a kind of an identity issue.
- [49:45]
Anita Riotta
I think you're absolutely right. I think what's interesting is that it's. It's one of those things that I really think is more how the world sees Italy also than maybe necessarily Italians see themselves. Of course, as I said, you know, Italians will recognize this as such a cultural linchpin of their lives.
- [50:06]
Nina Dos Santos
But.
- [50:06]
Anita Riotta
But it's also how the world sees Italy, I think, you know, there is a very romantic ideal of the nonna, cooking the sauce for hours and hours and hours and Sunday lunches and Sunday dinners have a real Italian iconography, I think, around the world. And so it's interesting, you know, how much is this also a label and a value placed upon the country from the international community.
- [50:34]
Chris Chermack
Well, speaking to that, Chiara, I mean, Giorgio Meloni, the Prime Minister has welcomed this, was pushing for this. They're hoping for more tourism. Does Italy need more tourism? Are you going to invite more people around the Italian table to join you for pasta?
- [50:46]
Chiara Mella
I love that. That's one of the funniest aspects of this, aside from the Meloni stuff. The funniest thing I think is that apparently industry groups estimate that this recognition could boost tourism by up to 8% in two years. I mean, I don't know, honestly, who in the world needs to be introduced to this, like, up and coming new cuisine?
- [51:06]
Chris Chermack
I had no idea. Let me just.
- [51:07]
Chiara Mella
Let me just float this. Float this. There's this dish called, like, pizza. But no, I, I do think that's a bit disingenuous. Anybody who already wanted to go to Italy, I don't think is going to be sort of like, galvanized by this announcement, although I. I do think it's a lovely thing. There is obviously always the risk in the current political climate for anything that kind of harks back to a sense of kind of national identity to be slightly appropriated by a political right that likes to hammer home this point on, like, Made in Italy. And if you do spend time in Italy nowadays and you switch on tv, you'd be surprised by how much the kind of overall discourse, even just on ads, on, like, products, how much everything here is just like, hammering home this idea of, like, the made in Italy ingredients and everything is made in Italy and Italy, la, la, la. So there's obviously a sense that this culinary heritage is really feeding into this idea of national identity, which is being definitely appropriated by a political party. Does it mean that being enthusiastic about the gastronomic heritage of Italy is dangerous? Probably not, but we need to know the political context as well.
- [52:23]
Chris Chermack
Chiara Mela and Anita Riotta, thank you very much for joining us. You're listening to the Globalist on Monocle Radio. And finally, on today's show, to outer space, a realm historically dominated by the Americans and the Russians, increasingly by the Chinese as well. But the European Space Agency is hoping to get back in the game with a new record budget for the next three years. And to tell us what they're going to do with all of that money, I'm joined in the studio by Tira Schubart, fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and ambassador for the Science Museum. Tira, good to have you.
- [53:01]
UBS Narrator
Good morning.
- [53:02]
Chris Chermack
Good morning. So, first off on this topic, there is a security geopolitical element because a lot of the money will go into military space projects.
- [53:13]
UBS Narrator
Yes. Now, for the first time, there's a project in the European Space Agency called ers that's European Resilience from space, and it's really a reaction to the security threats from Russia. And it's a departure from ESA's usual funding for peaceful space purposes.
- [53:36]
Chris Chermack
And tell us a little more about why that is and what they're going to do in space. It's about communication. I understand as well.
- [53:43]
UBS Narrator
There's going to be a record amount of money. The budget's up 17% to 22 billion euros over the next three years. So there's going to be a lot of money invested in communications and surveillance and navigation capabilities, as well as launch capabilities, because the Americans are cutting so much from NASA and the Europeans want to have an independent, independent source of all of these important systems.
- [54:16]
Chris Chermack
So part of this is that separation from the United States and NASA as well, developing its own capabilities, which does make me wonder, is the era of kind of cooperation in space over at this point? It used to be, you know, an international Space Station and all this stuff. Especially though it's even more surprising to see the US and Europe going their own way.
- [54:39]
UBS Narrator
Well. Well, the international cooperation still continues and we do still have the European, we still have the International Space Station for a few more years. But the Russians are going their own way. They look like they're going to be cooperating more with the Chinese. And the Trump administration has cut a lot of NASA spending other than towards the moon program. And they've certainly cut a lot of the science spending that NASA was doing in cooperation with the European Space Agency.
- [55:08]
Chris Chermack
Well, and speaking of science, then this is also an area where ESA will scale up to some degree. Tell us about some of the plans there.
- [55:15]
UBS Narrator
Well, there's two, there's a number of projects, but the two that I find the most exciting are the Rosalind Franklin ExoMars Rover. So in 2028 there will be a launch to Mars and Rosalind Franklin, named after the woman who was instrumental in discovering DNA, will be join the family of robots on Mars and that specific to look at life, possible past life on Mars. And that had a rocky start that was supposed to be funded partly by NASA and then they pulled out during the Obama administration, then the Russians, but that fell apart after the Ukraine invasion. So the Europeans will send Rosalind Franklin up there.
- [55:59]
Chris Chermack
So this is a concrete example of the ESA kind of stepping into the void here. And what will this Mars rover exactly do? I mean, how does it differ from previous ones? I do remember the pictures, the excitement when everyone was trying to get that Mars rover to land.
- [56:14]
UBS Narrator
Well, this will be looking absolutely following up the evidence that we've been getting from perseverance and curiosity that there possibly was past life. So it's going up there with more science capability and also to examine some of the extraordinary finds of perseverance as discovery and then talking about seeking for life on other parts of the solar system. There's also long term plans for the European Space Agency to launch to a little icy moon of Saturn called Enceladus, where we think there's the highest probability of microscopic life in the solar system.
- [56:55]
Chris Chermack
Tell us more about that one as well. Saturn, I mean, is this something that's been on people's radars for a long time that this is the place we might finally find that sign of life?
- [57:04]
UBS Narrator
It looks like if you're a betting man, I'd put a pound or two on a couple of moons of Saturn and maybe Jupiter. But Enceladus is a tiny icy planet. But we know from the Cassini mission, which went around Saturn for almost a decade, that there are organic compounds leaking out of the ice on Enceladus, which means that there's a deep ocean underneath and those organic compounds are the same ones that that we're here on Earth. The question is, when does chemistry turn into biology? But if you can land on Enceladus and drill down, maybe we could find a thing or two.
- [57:42]
Chris Chermack
Tyra, I have to ask, at this point, are you a believer in this stuff? Is it just a matter of time? Are we going to find life somewhere else?
- [57:49]
UBS Narrator
Oh, absolutely. There's no question statistically it's out there somewhere, but it's probably microscopic rather than the lgm. The little green man.
- [57:58]
Chris Chermack
No little green men. Maybe further. How far do we have to go to find the little green men?
- [58:03]
UBS Narrator
Well, there's a billion galaxies and each of those galaxies has billions of stars. And each of those stars has planets going around it. So I think they're probably out there. Maybe they're even going to be listening to this program a few years from now when it drifts out to them.
- [58:17]
Chris Chermack
Just finally, Tyra, to kind of come full circle. Could you imagine the US And Europe getting back together at some point? Does this kind of preclude that?
- [58:27]
UBS Narrator
I think that's a matter of the politics in the United States. And after the next round of presidential elections, there's another three years of this current administration. Things could change radically and they do. They have done in the past.
- [58:42]
Chris Chermack
We'll see what happens. Tyra Schubart, fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society, thank you so much for joining us today. That's all the time we have for today's program. Thanks very much to our producers, Hassan Anderson, Tom Webb and Anita Riotta, our researcher, Joanna Moser and our studio manager, Lily Austin with editing assistants from Christy o'. Grady. After the headlines. There is more music on the way. I'll be back with the briefing live at midday. In London, the globalist returns at the same time tomorrow. I'm Chris Cermak. Thanks for listening.
- [59:41]
UBS Narrator
With ubs, you have a truly global partner incorporating new technologies, innovative approaches and unexpected opportunities, leading you to insights that help answer the questions that matter. Delivered with passion, care and unmatched expertise. Because it's about rising with the dawn each day, knowing that we can do even better. That's what banking is to us. Not just work, but a craft. UBS advice is our craft.