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UBS Narrator
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Emma Nelson
You're listening to the Globalist, first broadcast on the 3rd of October, 2025 on Monocle Radio. The Globalist in association with U. Live from London. This is THE Globalist with me, Emma Nelson. A very warm welcome to today's program. Coming up, protests continue in Morocco with at least three people dead. Anti government demonstrations increase in their intensity will be in Morocco to hear from one person who's taken to the streets. Also ahead in the next 60 minutes, another European country borrows a page or two from the Donald Trump election playbook. This time it's a Czech Republic where a populist billionaire is seeking a comeback. Plus, Andrew Muller will tell us what we've learned this week.
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Andrew Muller
We learned this week just how far the human toe, when prompted by second hand embarrassment, can curl.
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Emma Nelson
That's all coming up on THE Globalist live from London. First, a quick look at what else is happening in today's news. Munich Airport has been forced to close for several hours overnight following a wave of drone sightings. It's been reported that Hamas leaders in Gaza are likely to reject President Trump's peace plan announced this last week. And Venezuela's Defense Ministry has said five combat planes have been detected near to the country's coast in what it characterized as a threat by the United States. Stay tuned to Monocle Radio throughout the day for more on these stories. But first, for a sixth night, there have been protests across Morocco. Thousands of people took to the streets against government corruption and money wasting. Hundreds of people have been injured, more than a thousand arrested. What is remarkable is that the majority, some are estimated to up to seven of the 10 protesters, are under 18 years old. So what is behind all this? Well, I'm joined now by Erin Clare Brown, who's North Africa editor at New Lines magazine based in Turin, and by Iman Zubay, a visual artist based in Fezin, Morocco. Very good morning to you both.
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Iman Zubay
Good morning.
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Emma Nelson
Emma, let me begin with you. What is this? What was the situation like overnight?
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Iman Zubay
I would talk from before yesterday how it was. It was very peaceful, very organized from from fast perspective where it's very heavily surveilled and also in the context that since the 90s riots there is this city trauma that people are afraid to protest against. So people and the youngsters got somehow really very well organized with the help of the university union and we managed to make our voices heard without any avoiding any police violence or confrontation.
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Emma Nelson
I'll stay with you Emando because the reports are that in other parts Fez as you have described appears peaceful. Yet we now have reports that police in the city of Lykia opened fire on protesters, protesters are setting cars alight. That there is that FEZ is peaceful but there is violence in other parts of the country.
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Iman Zubay
Yes, yes.
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Emma Nelson
So tell us a little bit about what's happened there.
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Iman Zubay
Well, from what I've seen on the media and I have not been on the ground, I would just state that some protests and all, I mean basically all the protests were meant to be peaceful, to start peaceful and we want this to be ending peaceful with a dialogue with responsible people. But some other people use this gathering of youngsters and just use it to start riots. Parts of them, I would say they are moved by the same motivation of process. But these group of youngsters attacked gendarmerie, Royal local. I would say it's like they attacked the guards. Yeah, civil guards and they were heading to get the guns from inside in the place where they stock guns. So the people, from what I've seen from a surveillance camera, they as a self defense they were. They had to shot three of the protesters who were like hiding their faces and that's. I'm not very sure that they were likely part of the protest that is genuinely asking and claiming to be peaceful. And also some other banks and shops and cars were burned and attacked. So actually the Gen Z212 is not claiming these riots and these acts but I can from another social perspective say that the first police violence triggered violence back and also triggered all these people that are refreshed and educated.
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Emma Nelson
Erin, let's cross to you in Turin. Thank you for that Iman. We will come back to you in a moment. But Erin, just looking at the broader picture of what Iman has just described, she talked about Gen Z 2212. She talked about the fact that there are very young people who are protesting against what It's a lack of education. Education, it's a lack of health care. Yet they perceive that a lot of money that could be diverted to improving society is actually going towards football.
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Gloria Guevara
Yes.
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Iman Zubay
So they're not wrong in many ways. So I think it's a really good context to understand that for the past almost 30 years, Morocco has been making strong attempts to try and build up its infrastructure around sport to be able to attract the World Cup. I mean, they started this bid in 1994, and they have made a huge run on infrastructure around sport and around the kinds of things that it would take to host a major event like this. And they will be hosting, they will be co hosting the 2030 World cup with Spain and Portugal. But I was reading this week, there's an estimated 18% of GDP between public and private spending. So it's not just public spending, but the equivalent of 18% of GDP is being spent on hosting the World Cup. And it's just a massive amount of money, and that's being funneled into a few wealthy areas of the country. I think oftentimes when people are thinking about Morocco, they may have traveled to Fez or to Marrakech, or they have an idea of Rabat and Casablanca as these very modern cities. Morocco is a darling for investors. But outside of that, the country of 38 million really is struggling with youth unemployment, which is about 35%. Literacy rates among women and people over 50 are super low, less than 50% in some areas. And spending on things like health care are just in the dumps. So one of the things that triggered this kind of amorphous, atomized response from Gen Z was recently this really horrific incidence where eight young women died either giving birth or in their postpartum period at a hospital in Agadir, which is a city up on the coast. And that was largely because they were given expired medication, or at least that's what initial reports have shown. And it's this idea that you're building. You're spending $35 billion on infrastructure to host an event for are a couple of weeks that might draw more tourists. But Morocco is already a fairly touristed spot. And yet you can't spend on health care for the working people who keep the country, the monarchy, afloat.
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Emma Nelson
Iman, this idea that so many young people have taken part in this protest, why do you think it is that the younger population of Morocco has decided to rise up?
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Iman Zubay
Well, as a young Moroccan, you have to say that the anger we've seen in the streets today is a response to the way the prime minister, Aziz Ahinous, has been leading this country. We don't feel represented by this government anymore. And for the context, Morocco is a constitutional monarchy. And this actual government that keeps talking about reforms is actually, I would exaggeratedly say, selling the country. The country is more going to privatization. We're more in depth to the World bank. And there is less protection for ordinary citizen. And me as a visual artist and as young person with the friends I have in my generation, you see that the horizon of our dreams are getting very narrowed. And all people I know dream to go abroad. I've had the opportunity to go abroad and now I'm back. But I hate to make the choice where I want to go. So people they, I mean with this policies of this actual government, people either have to go and sell labor and be really underpaid and not covered in because the main motivation of this protest is reforms of health, health care system and education. Now this is the age where you start senior parents getting sick and in the ground with other fellow protesters. I've heard some stories that shocked me and I have some others stories of the way you literally see your parents struggle in hospitals and your family members why you feel that you can't do anything. So at the same time you see the disproportionate defenses on stadiums and all how infrastructure is like now fast is getting this type of attention, of getting new infrastructure. You see that all these things are made and built for other people. But like nothing is and like nothing is also made for us. And to be quick, there is an important factor to add up to the context is the earthquake of Al Haus that happened in 2023. We should also bring back the attention because United Kingdom along with other countries helped Morocco and sent aid to rebuild houses and to help these families. Thousands of them now are still in difficult conditions. Yet the priority has not, I mean priority to pour money into stadiums and prestige projects. So it's very outrageous to still see that these people still live in tents in this. Sorry.
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Emma Nelson
Iman, thank you so much for joining us on the line from Fez. I'm afraid we'll have to leave it there. That was Iman Zubay, visual artist based in Morocco and Erin Claire Brown, North Africa editor at New Lines magazine. You're listening to the globalist. It's 8:12 in Prague, which is where we head now because today and tomorrow voters in the Czech Republic will vote in an election which could see the country follow the likes of neighboring Slovakia and Hungary in a move towards the harder right. The populist billionaire Andre Babish, friend of Donald Trump, is tipped ahead the next government replacing the strongly pro Western, pro Ukraine coalition. If he is to return and cement his grip on power, he will need help, however from much more extreme parties if he wishes to govern well. Rob Cameron is a journalist based in Prague regular voice on Monocle Radio. A very good morning to you, Rob. Thank you for joining us.
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Will Hodgkinson
Good morning.
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Emma Nelson
Just explain to us. Andrej Babys is a name from the Czech Republic, from Czechia's political past. He's making a comeback.
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Rob Cameron
He is. And it's quite ironic, really, because Andrei Babi has always styled himself as a kind of anti establishment voice against the system and against the corruption that that system has created in this country, which is ironic because Andrej Babbis is a billionaire. He was once, I think, the third richest man in the country. I think he's now ninth. And he obviously has been in politics between 2017 and 2021 as Prime Minister and the last four years as the leader of the largest opposition party. So he is very much part of the system, he's very much part of the establishment, and he's very much part of the elite. And now he is, as you say, tipped to return to power. But the question is, what will he be governing alone? Will he be governing with parties on the extremes, on the fringes of Czech politics? Or perhaps will he take a back seat and allow one of his colleagues in his party to become prime minister as he pulls the strings from the background? So there's so much at play here, so much up in the air at a really perilous time, not just for the Czech Republic, but for Europe as a whole.
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Emma Nelson
What has gone wrong for the current coalition, pro Western, pro Ukrainian?
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Rob Cameron
I think they have suffered from a number of problems. First of all, I think the clearest and the most obvious reason are the austerity measures to, you know, bring the Czech budget deficit under control. They were introduced and obviously very, very unpopular with many sections of society. The economy, post Covid, which is when they came in, had a sort of an initial burst of optimism, but came the Ukraine war and those growth figures suddenly fell quite dramatically. Now they're starting to recover. Inflation is now under control after it was rampant. But I think a lot of people here just feel poorer. They certainly feel that they could be having a much more comfortable and fulfilling life than they do. And that's why a lot of them are willing to vote either for Andre Babish and his populist annual party or these parties on the extremes of politics. So I think it's the austerity measures that lies at the heart of it. Plus some fairly high profile scandals, corruption scandals surrounding the current government. But of course, that's nothing new in Czech politics. All governments since 1989 have buffeted these wins and have been subjected to the same scrutiny and have suffered the same scandals.
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Emma Nelson
Not least Mr. Babish himself. He's spent quite a lot of time in Czech courts over subsidy fraud. The issue here though, is where Babish would find his alliances. He has said that he will not. Excuse me, he has said that he will not join forces with the Czech Communists, but he will not also bow to the far right who are asking for referendums on exiting the European Union and also or even NATO. Could Babish find himself in an impossible situation here?
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Rob Cameron
I don't know about impossible, but I think he is going to be in a pretty tough spot because every poll in the last two years has suggested that his party will come first, it will win these elections, but it won't win an overall majority. And so that he will need the support, either tacit open support in a coalition or perhaps confidence and supply agreements with one, two, maybe three parties. But the problem is that the parties of the current centre right government have already ruled out supporting him or working with him. So that leaves him with very few options and at least him with these parties on the extremes. And those parties range from, as you say, the communists who are in a sort of weird coalition with the dregs of what were the once mighty Social Democrats and a rather strange blogger and a black hat who calls himself Pitchfork. So that's one potential ally. Or he could go with the SPD party, which is far right extremist, anti immigrant, anti Ukraine. He already sits in the same European Parliament, grouping the part of the Patriots for Europe with that party, with the spd, which by the way is run by a half Czech, half Japanese businessman. That's the main anti immigrant party here. I'll leave that there. And then finally the motorists and to themselves who are sort of anti green deal Eurosceptics Party started as a single issue party in favor of car drivers, particularly petrol and diesel car drivers, but now could be one of Andrei Babic's coalition partners. So as one political analyst put to me, he thinks that Andrei Babicz has a lot to worry about in these elections, even if he wins because he has to sit down with these guys. He hoped it'll just be one of them to make these compromises that he'll need to offer minimal, but it may be two, it may be three, and in that case it could be an absolute nightmare.
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Emma Nelson
And briefly, Rob, just placing that part of the world in the wider context. Neighbouring Slovakia has fico, has moved to the far right. Hungary a bit further down has Viktor Orban were the Czech Republic. Were Czechia to move towards that way of thinking and that way of going about life, how would that change that part of the world?
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Rob Cameron
It would, it would certainly bolster this sort of Central European awkward squad that that has sprung up over recent years. But to be fair, I think most people don't think that is going to happen. Andre Babi is not an ideologue, he's a pragmatist. He's a businessman, he's a deal maker. He likes having Emmanuel Macron's mobile number in his phone and boasting of his friendships. He used to have a property in the south of France. So, you know, he's a guy who's very much at home in Western Europe. He is going to be awkward. I imagine he will perhaps, maybe make a lot of noise and perhaps delay a few EU decisions, not NATO ones, but EU ones. But I think at the end of the day he will be far easier for Brussels to deal with than either Robert Fitzel or Viktor Orban.
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Emma Nelson
Robert Cameron, thank you so much for joining us on the line from Prague. Still to come on today's program, we.
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Gloria Guevara
In WTTC we look at the GDP contribution and jobs. Not only people arriving to the countries, what is their impact to the economy?
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Emma Nelson
That's the CEO of the World Travel and Tourism Council. She says that they're having their best year yet. We'll find out why a little bit later on today's program.
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UBS Narrator
Craft is a matter of perspective, a unique outlook, an obsessive attention to detail. With UBS's Chief Investment Office House View, we're focused on identifying the latest investment opportunities and market risks to help you achieve your financial goals. So you get the big picture broken down into thought provoking insights. Delete. Delivered daily and curated by over 200 globally connected, locally active analysts. UBS banking is our craft.
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Emma Nelson
It's 7:20 here in London. Let's have a look at the newspapers. Joining me is Latika Burke, writer at large for the Australian publication the Nightly and expert associate at the Australian National University's National Security College. Good morning Latika. Good morning. You look all booted and suited. Off to to Chatham House today.
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Latika Burke
Yes.
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Emma Nelson
Having a very, very busy London International Day.
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Latika Burke
London International Day? Yes. I've actually got a rare week in London which makes me sound like the most Monocle Radio guest in the world. I'm fully self aware of this. I've actually been to Kiev, the lot in the last six weeks, two times. So today Ukraine's coming to me, which is a bit of a relief. Former Prime Minister of Ukraine will be speaking later. So going along to listen to that chat. But Emma, before all that, I have been busily scouring the papers for you.
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Emma Nelson
Go for it.
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Latika Burke
Of course, you don't have to look too far. This morning there's an obvious top story that leads every single newspaper in Britain and might I say in my home country in Australia, every single newspaper there, including my own as well. And this is of course, the tragic and terrible terrorist attack in Manchester, England yesterday, where police late last night revealed the identity of the attacker is always very important because we then try and find out what motivated this attack, his background and why he would have done this. We learn the attacker was Jihad al Shami. He's 35 years old and he was a British citizen of Syrian descent and he came to Britain very young, his records show, according to newspaper reporting right across the board. But for this instance, I've chosen an article in the Times this morning. He was never, ever referred to the government's counterterrorism scheme prevent and that he was not known to the authorities. So what we can deduce from that, Emma, reading between the lines, is that this could have been a self radicalisation, it could have taken place extremely quickly. We know that that is a trend that has taken hold last year. But if you look closely at this method, this was a car ramming attack outside a Jewish synagogue. He had upon him what looked to be an explosive vest. Later found out that wasn't the case, but that did actually delay police in determining he was de for a couple of minutes because they were worried that something might go off and he tried to stab people. That sounds to me very similar to the London Bridge attack you might remember in 2017. That's the exact same method. So very crude, very dangerous and of course very fatal methods. This of course opens up a huge political fight about whose fault it is, because we have in the UK the same in Australia and many other countries, a debate about whether the political leadership has been behind or fostering or not doing enough on anti Semitism, which we have seen a huge wave of right across these Western countries as Israel continues its campaign in Gaza. Last night on the streets of London, I saw this protest myself, I was heading into town. There was also protests elsewhere. Pro Palestinian activists got out onto the streets. Of all the days, this happened, of course, on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar, to protest about the flotilla in Gaza being seized. And many citizens from many different countries have been detained by the Israeli authorities. Now that of course, is something worth protesting about. Whether it was worth protesting about as two Jews were slain in the UK is a question really for them to answer.
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Emma Nelson
It's an interesting. The New York Times has a very good wide assessment of this and they hear from David Feldman, who's a co director of the Birkbeck Institute for the Study of Antisemitism in London. And he basically said this is extraordinary because yes, there have been been plots to target Jewish places of worship and Jewish people in the United Kingdom recently, but this is the first time that it's actually got through. And the, the idea is, is that what now does the Jewish community do? The front page of the Times is saying, you know, Jewish people, don't gather in groups, close your doors.
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Latika Burke
I mean, did you ever think we would see headlines like this? It's terrifying to see headlines like that.
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Emma Nelson
How the government reacts and how the international community community reacts to this a little bit. At the same time is the fact that there is this merging of the Israel Gaza conflict and a rise in antisemitism globally.
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Latika Burke
Absolutely. And I want to draw your attention to what happened in Australia recently. Just a little bit off topic, but this is really interesting and I think it does add some context. We had similar incidents in Australia, huge rise in anti Semitic attacks. This is not familiar to me. Growing up in Australia, that just didn't happen. So all of a sudden it was happen happening after October 7th and people were wondering why at least two of those, one was a firebombing of a Jewish synagogue, another was a firebombing of a Jewish cafe in Sydney, were later found out by the intelligence agencies to have been ordered by Iran through an uber style app where you can basically get criminals, and in this case it was bikie gangs to kind of choose your own crime that they sign up and do for you and then get paid in crypto. So we do have to be alive that there is coordinated antisemitism. There's also organic anti Semitism, which we have certainly seen on the streets of Britain. But it all ends up, of course, wrapped in what is happening in the Middle east and that is the ongoing war in Gaza. And let's see, Emma, if these plans by Donald Trump to broker the peace for Gaza once and for all turn out to be true, we can all only hope they do. But let's see.
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Emma Nelson
Okay, let's move on to a story that broke overnight in Munich. The Munich airport, a huge hub for Lufthansa, a huge, huge, huge southern German airport, had to suspend air traffic control Operations leading to the grounding of, what was it, 17 planes, 3,000 people affected. And guess why? It's drones.
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Latika Burke
Yep. So this keeps happening and happening and happening. And it looks, for all intents and purposes, like this is a coordinated attempt to either disrupt, either test or. Or just see if countries know what to do. And right now you could say countries don't know what to do and that whoever is behind these testings by flying drones over airports is succeeding in whatever they're setting out to achieve. Last week it was Copenhagen and the Danish prime minister came out and said, we suspect this is Russia. Now this is moved to Germany, and we have these drone sightings over Munich Airport. Late last night, Munich Airport put out a statement saying that they grounded these planes. It was around 10:18pm and about 3,000 passengers affected. Now, that's kind of small fry in the scheme of things, but what does it show? It shows that we still do not know what to do when these drones come. We don't have a way to knock them down. And whoever is sending these drones, if it is Russia, and it's about 80% sure, people I talk to, they're about 80% sure it's Russia, they're succeeding in huge disruption and huge chaos. And we are found wanting time and time again. And it's only a matter of time until these drone attacks, whatever you want to call them, disruptions, move around the chessboard in Europe, isn't it?
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Emma Nelson
Letika, book writer at large for the Australian publication the Nightly and expert associate of the Australian National University's National Security College. Thank you for joining me in the studio. You're listening to the Globalist. Now here's a quick look at some of the other stories we're following today. Munich Airport has been forced to close for several hours overnight following a wave of drone sightings. A total of 17 flights were grounded shortly after 10pm with almost 3,000 passengers affected. Munich is the latest airport to close due to drones. It has now reopened. Opened. It's been reported that Hamas leaders in Gaza are likely to reject President Trump's peace plan announced last week after a meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Sources say some military leaders are determined to fight because they believe the plans are designed to destroy their organization. And Venezuela's Defense Ministry has said five combat planes had been detected near the country's coast in what it characterized as a threat by the United States. The country's defense minister described them as imperialist combat planes. This is the global list. Stay tuned. Now, government ministers and global CEOs have been in Rome this week to address the challenges and future of travel and tourism. The World Travel and Tourism Council returned to Europe for the first time since the pandemic, forecasting the industry to have its best year in history. Well, the dialogue opened with remarks from the Council CEO Gloria Guevara, who joined Monocle's top webb off stage with her reactions to the summit.
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Gloria Guevara
We have Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni to do the opening and of course Andrea Bocelli was also there the second day, the closing was done by the President of the Senate. And that's very important because as you know, in this country is the second most important ranking official. And we have several members of the cabinet. So in terms of quantity, we have over 1,500 participants, a little bit over 310 CEOs from around the world, more than 300 journalists. But what matters here also is the global representations from 70 countries leaders. So it was quality but quantity at the same time. These leaders not only were able to speak, but what matters the most in our events is that they had the opportunity to do business, to talk to each other, to align in some important priorities for our sector. As this is the most important event for travel and tourism every year.
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Andrew Muller
And it is very global, as you say. But we cannot ignore our hosts, we cannot ignore Italy and Europe. It has been revealed to be the beating heart of international tourism. How did it achieve this and is everyone happy?
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Gloria Guevara
Everyone is very happy. Italy in a way is making history. I don't know if you're aware, last year for instance, instance they hosted the first G7 meeting for ministers of Tourism. That was a huge milestone. We never had a ministerial meeting for tourism in the G7 country. And this was led by the Italian government. And they have a very interesting plan to attract more investment and international travel. So their numbers are quite good. And yes, they are happy. And of course, you know, Europe is the largest region of the world. When we look, look at all the international travelers. For instance, last year 51% of them arrived to Europe. That's a big number. And you just mentioned in the case of Italy, of course it's important. Now we in wttc, we look at the GDP contribution and jobs, not only people arriving to the countries, what is their impact to the economy? And one of the things that we did is we announced our numbers for this year 2025. $11.7 trillion. When you put that in perspective, it's the third largest country in the world, which is important.
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Andrew Muller
Let's take a look at markets America have retained their title as the most powerful travel and tourism market. China, though, is making a rapid return. Anyone clear on where they're going?
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Gloria Guevara
Well, everyone is booming. It is very clear that our sector is very resilient despite the challenges that we had in Covid and the shortage of workers. Of course, we lost 70 million jobs during the pandemic and we have recovered all of them. But let's remember that many of the ones that we lost moved to other sectors. So has been a challenge to bring people back to travel and tourism and to be able to train them. And that's what WTTC and our members are working hand in hand with governments to provide the training, the tools to so that we can bring them back faster. Now we have recovered those jobs, but now we're moving, as I say, in the direction of creating more jobs. Now, in terms of what you just mentioned of Americas and China, when you look at the total contribution, yes, US is the number one, is the biggest in the world. For them, domestic is very relevant. However, they have the issue that the international spend was down compared to the previous year. Is the only country that they have been affected by by the international spend. China is the second largest, is growing really fast. And if they continue with this number in the next 10 years, who knows, they can even outpace the U.S. we will see. And after that, as I say, you have economies like Spain booming, France booming. Every single country that we monitor of the 185 countries from around the world have been booming and outpacing the growth the government tourism is growing faster than consumer goods, manufacturing and other sectors.
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Andrew Muller
So with all the growth, as you mentioned, we need to fill jobs and you're doing a great job in getting people back into work. How important is the tourism sector to the global job market?
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Gloria Guevara
It's super important because we contribute to one of every 10 jobs in the world. There are around 371 million jobs. That's the number that we're estimating to close this year year. And as I say, that's one of every 10. But the most relevant is when you look at all the new jobs in the planet from all the sectors created. If you think about before the pandemic, it was one out of four. Now it's one out of three. So for every three new jobs, there is one related to travel and tourism. So it's an engine to create jobs all over the world and bring prosperity and also create the job jobs in their hometowns because people don't have to migrate and move that's the beauty also of our sector that they can work and live in their cities or their small towns.
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Andrew Muller
When you reconvene next year, what do you hope to see? What do you hope to say?
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Gloria Guevara
Well, we have an interesting program that the WTTC is going to be working with Malta, where it's the next host. It was just announced in the fall of next year, but there are a lot of things that are going to happen in between. Our members are working in some investment conference in seamless travel, we're working in some sustainability initiatives, multiple things that are related to the current challenges of the world, but also how do we unlock potential in communities, in secondary markets, in markets that they are not or destinations that they are not benefiting as much as the big ones from the travelers. So we have a very interesting strategy that covers all the needs from the members and we're going to be working on those in the next year. That's what we say that this summit is particularly relevant because it shapes the future, defines the priorities for the future. What are we going to do with AI? That was discussed. What are we going to do with the challenges of overcrowding, sustainability, shortage of workforce? All those topics were discussed during the summit and there are specific actions that we, we have to follow up now.
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Emma Nelson
And that was Monocle's Tom Webb in conversation with the World Travel and Tourism Council CEO Gloria Guevara. You're listening to Monocle Radio 1636 in Canberra, 7.36am here in London. Now, a landmark defence treaty has been signed between Australia and Papua New Guinea. Once ratified, it could make Papua New Guinea's Australia Italy's third formal ally alongside the United States and New Zealand, and the first new ally in more than seven decade. Decades. Well, to tell us more, I'm joined on the line from Canberra by David M. Andrews, his senior policy advisor of the Australian National University there. A very good afternoon to you, David. Thank you for joining us.
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David M. Andrews
Thank you, Emma.
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Emma Nelson
So tell us about the treaty. What's in it, please.
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David M. Andrews
Well, as you say, it will be the only, the second formal treaty alliance that Australia has signed. So it's a mutual defence treaty, so not dissimilar in that sense to NATO or other. Other alliances of that type.
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Will Hodgkinson
Puk.
- [37:50]
David M. Andrews
Puk being a pigeon. Papua Nini word for crocodile. So obviously it has a certain dynamic effect in the title, but it's a way of providing mutual defence obligation both from Australia to Papua New guinea and vice versa, which recognizes that any armed attack on Australia or Papua New guinea would be considered a danger to the peace and security of both countries and that they would, in respect for their constitutional process, come to each other's defence or aid as they see fit. Indeed, it will also enable the expansion of the, of the Papua New Defence Force to about twice its current size and for up to 10,000 Papua New Guinean personnel to serve in the Australian Defence Force.
- [38:28]
Emma Nelson
And what has brought about this, this agreement now?
- [38:34]
David M. Andrews
Well, in part, it is a reflection of this year being 50 years of industrial independence for Papua New Guinea. So Australia was for a time the colonial administrator of Papua New guinea. And then in 1975, they achieved independence. And so this was something that their government approached the Australian government about as a reflection of that 50 year anniversary to upgrade that relationship to a full treaty alliance. But I think we also have to be realistic and say that there are, I guess, broader geopolitical, political, geostrategic circumstances that we're all living through. There's been a level of contest in the South Pacific, particularly between Australia and China, for influence in Pacific countries. And I think that definitely that sort of sits in the background of these conversations, but it's also a reflection of, I think, just a increasing range of security challenges that Papua New guinea has to deal with. Whether that's in maritime security, in transnational and serious organised crime. There's a whole range of evolving security threats that with a defence force of only 4,000 people for a population of nearly 14 million, there's a lot that Australia can lend support on.
- [39:47]
Emma Nelson
And indeed, and is this something which is just what you have just described there, is that Papua New guinea, with its, dare I say, very small military capabilities there, is Papua New guinea going to be the principal beneficiary from this or what can it do to help Australia?
- [40:05]
David M. Andrews
I think that there's probably a level of waiting towards benefit for Papua New guinea, but that's okay because I think Australia as the largest and wealthiest country in the region, and as a former colonial administrator, I think we have certain moral obligations as well as practical ones at play here that as what we say, we're part of one Pacific family. And I think that means that we need to do more to support members of that Pacific family and support their defence and security at the same time. No alliance is done for purely one sided benefit. And I think for Australia, we've always seen the islands to our north as being the principal threat vector for any action taken against Australia. If we think back to the first and Second World wars, we, we had many actions in, in the north, particularly in Papua New Guinea. In the Second World War, we're talking about the Kokoda Track and, and the fight against Imperial Japan in that context or against Germany in what was then German New guinea in the First World War. So there's been a long standing consciousness of, of any insecurity to the north of Australia. And so, so this I think will provide an opportunity for Australia to take a more hands on role in helping Papua New guinea, but also having, I suppose, the ability to project our power further forward into the region and making use of different naval or air bases potentially. But I think a lot of this is probably pending the actual treaty text, which we won't see until, I suspect, at least Monday. So some of those specifics may yet unfold on Monday or in the years ahead. But I think there's a, there's a sort of geographic benefit to Australia as much as there is a practical benefit to Papua New guinea.
- [41:54]
Emma Nelson
And the wider geographic benefit you mentioned there, the one Pacific family to have a defence treaty like this signed. Now, where else does Australia look now to shore up its defenses? You mentioned China against possible aggressors in that part of the world.
- [42:11]
David M. Andrews
Yes, I think this is probably going to be the exception rather than the rule when it comes to the kind of partnership we're talking about here. So over the last, let's say five to seven years, the Australian government, both of the former Liberal National Coalition and the current Labor Party government have both pursued upgraded security ties with many of our near neighbours in the Pacific and elsewhere in the Indo Pacific as well, such as Japan. So this is just the most recent of a string of them. So we're talking about Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, Nauru, Kiribati, Fiji, East Timor, Indonesia, Japan and these, these are all a string of partnerships which we've upgraded in the last about seven years with, as I said, there sort of a heavier weighting on the Pacific. Now I think that both the size of Papua New guinea, its proximity, that particular relationship with Australia that's been formed over many decades, that puts it in an exceptional category compared to other states in the region. There's also been an effort to establish a higher upgraded relationship with Vanuatu lately, which has been somewhat stalled due to some sort of internal political discussions and differences within their system. But also there are suspicions that China is playing a very active role to try and undermine that agreement and indeed was trying to undermine this agreement and prevent them from being signed. So this is an ongoing diplomatic contest. But it's not just Australia and China. We have the presence of the United States of Japan as big a donors of the EU as well, and to some extent the United Kingdom. So there's a whole range of different partners who are playing a role in the Pacific. But given Australia's proximity and its unique interests in the security of the region, I think we'll always play a bigger part. But I think Vanuatu is the next one that the government is trying to resolve. But I think there's also been some talk of Fiji seeking an upgrade on its security ties as well. So I think this is, it's interesting to me that we've chosen to go down the path of these formal legal treaty type obligations, which is, I'd say, unusual in the history of these relations. So it points, I think, to the seriousness with which we hold them, but also the changing regional environment and what other countries are asking from us as well.
- [44:34]
Emma Nelson
David M. Andrews, thank you so much for joining us on the line from Canberra. You're listening to the Globalist.
- [44:43]
UBS Narrator
Iq, EQ and AI. Three components key to the craft of innovation at ubs. Because to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving age, you need a partner with decades of experience, endless passion for the work and a finger on the pulse of leading technologies, bridging human expertise and with artificial intelligence all to elevate you, UBS banking is our craft.
- [45:20]
Emma Nelson
Time now for a look at the world of music. To bring us up to date with all the news, I'm joined by Will Hodgkinson, times rock and pop critic. Good morning, Will.
- [45:29]
Will Hodgkinson
Good morning.
- [45:30]
Emma Nelson
Good to have you with us. It is the day that Taylor Swift releases her album and dare I say it, mixed reviews. We'll come to your review in a minute. But not everyone likes it. So what's happening?
- [45:42]
Will Hodgkinson
Well, the Guardian gave it a two star review and it was interesting because I think Alexis Petridis, who's a very good writer, felt that she was punching down. You know, there's a song on it called actually Romantic, which is about dissing another pop star. I didn't pick that up myself. I thought, you know, there's that one song. But I thought generally it was sort of, as the title suggests, it's about what it is to be famous, the ups, the downs, the joys, the tears and all that kind of thing. So it's interesting. I mean, I think also some of the mixed reviews come down to the fact that this is a very traditional album. You know, she's made, you know, the Tortured Poet Society was much more, not exactly experimental, but, you know, sort of more modern, so to speak. And this is very, very Classic pop rock. I mean, I thought it was good. You know, it's 12 songs. It's very, it's very solidly put together. Alexis said that they were not very catchy, which I have to disagree with. I think, you know, a lot of them have been in my head since I've been reviewing the album. So, yeah, there we go.
- [46:43]
Emma Nelson
It's quite fun to actually do this because obviously we, we're not playing any Taylor Swift music at the moment. We can talk about what other people think of it. And it's interesting that you bring up the, the Guardian article. I would never bring up a sort of a competitive competing critic's name, but okay, let's go for this. The fact is that what happens in the world of review and journalism when someone like Alex Petridisk absolutely goes to town on her album, he puts it through the wringer. Whereas your review Will is slightly. It's much more loving, much more generous. I mean, what then happens to a piece of music or what then happens to the kind of like the reputation of a record from that point?
- [47:24]
Will Hodgkinson
Well, we all have opinions and that's why music criticism should be like this. I've got a lot of respect, respect for Alexis and there's been plenty of times when it's been the other way around. You know, that's, that's, that should be how it works. Because his own. I always say, you know, it's only one person's opinion. You can, you can bounce off that. You know, you don't have to agree with it. So, no, I mean, I completely respect, you know, my, my peers opinions, but in this case, I felt that it was, it was, it was a very solid outcome. And I think it's good. I think, I mean, it's obviously going to do well. That's just guaranteed with Taylor Swift at this stage. Whether, you know, know there's. And it's worth looking at the history of album reviews and there's plenty of big albums from times past which are now considered classics, which got absolutely slated on review. I mean, you could look at the first four Led Zeppelin albums. So, you know, Led Zeppelin were hated by the critics at the time. So it's an interesting thing. It could be timing, it could be that, you know, people feel that she's got a bit too big for her boots, that it's a kind of. There's a certain arrogance to it. I didn't feel that myself. But, you know, that's why, that's why we have reviews. We shouldn't all agree.
- [48:34]
Emma Nelson
It's Good fun. I was just expecting fisticuffs in the pub. Among.
- [48:37]
Will Hodgkinson
No.
- [48:38]
Emma Nelson
What a shame.
- [48:39]
Andrew Muller
I admire him for it.
- [48:40]
Will Hodgkinson
I buy him.
- [48:40]
Emma Nelson
What a shame. Okay, let's talk about another enormous band, Coldplay. It does kind of like mean that there's no room for anybody else in this world, doesn't it? When you have Taylor Swift and Coldplay. But Coldplay's tour beating every single record.
- [48:56]
Will Hodgkinson
Going well, Taylor Swift is still the highest grossing, but what's happened is the Coldplay store is absolutely huge. It's going to be 223 shows. It's finishing in 2027 and it's the most, the highest attended tour of all time. 12 million tickets sold. The strange thing is that since the pandemic we've had spiraling inflation. The restaurants and nightclubs have really struggled. But oddly, concert attendance across the board has gone up. So last year, 23.5 million people attended concerts in Britain, compared to 12.6 million in 2019. So it seems like these big events, not just Coldplay, it's Taylor Swift, obviously, Oasis, Beyonce, last year. Well, those that tour didn't actually sell out. These big events that people want to be a part of. It's a very different thing to the old gig going culture where people who would be into music would be maybe going, you know, once a week to concerts that didn't cost very much. Whereas now people are making these big, big events, which is almost like a holiday. You know, you go and you come down to. Come down to London, see Oasis or Coldplay or wherever. So the culture has changed and the.
- [50:05]
Emma Nelson
Culture from within the music industry itself. I mean, if we talk about the, the work ethic of Taylor Swift is something which defies description. And the fact that she's. She's just managed to compose and make an album in a sort of small break from being on her eras tour. One wonders when she found the time. Coldplay, again, their work ethic is phenomenal. If you are a singer or a band and you are trying to make a living, the life of touring looks impossibly exhausting and it's taking its toll.
- [50:36]
Will Hodgkinson
That's true. It's extremely hard. I mean, just to give you an idea, you're not really going to be able to make a living from touring until you're playing to about 1500 people a night, which is quite, quite large. You know, the cost is astronomical these days. You know, even things like parking have gone up. There's all these different things that people don't think about using crew. Since the pandemic A lot of people retrained and so there's fewer people in the, in the supporting the music industry. So there's that. And you see the cost. So Lola Young, who has got huge last year with Messi, I'm sure a lot of people will know that song. She's just canceled her entire US tour and I think all forthcoming dates because she's had burnout. And the thing is, it's not like it used to be. You can't, you know, the old days people would do the, do the concert, then maybe party all night and sleep on the bus the next day. Now you're expected to do social media, you're expected to do interviews, you're expected to do meet and greets. You know, there's, you can buy more expensive tickets to meet the artist. So it's absolutely non stop and I think it's very, very brutal for younger artists who are coming through. On top of that, you now have the debilitating effects of social media where you can read every bad review, you know, and people do. Well, you. Yeah.
- [51:49]
Emma Nelson
I'm so sorry, we've run out of time, but thank you so much for joining us on the Globalist. Finally, it's Friday, so here's a summary of what we've learned this week. Here's Andrew Muller.
- [52:08]
Andrew Muller
We learned this week just how far the human toe, when prompted by second hand embarrassment, can curl. We learned this from US Secretary of Defense and man who absolutely doubtlessly wears his baseball caps backwards, Pete Hegseth, who summoned America's toppest brass for a meeting which could have been, if not an email, then certainly a leaked signal chat. We learned anyway that Secretary Hegseth was concerned that the US military, the United actual States actual military, had become unacceptably effete, louche, decadent, slovenly, dissipated and woke basically an $850 billion production of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. It's tiring to look out at combat formations or really any formation and see fat troops. Likewise, it's completely unacceptable to see fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon. We learned, however, that there may be better ways to warm an audience up than by telling them that they're a sorry sack of shiftless, lack witted lard buckets. For we learned that Secretary Hegseth's punchlines were not landing quite as he may have anticipated when rehearsing them. Short, shirtless in the mirror with the soundtrack from Pattern playing in the background, as indeed it is right now. And you see once again how meticulously excogitated the weekly what We Learned monologue on Monocle Radio is anyway, in other words, to our enemies F a f o tough crowd. And any prospective crafter of topical racy zing singers for rarely grateful audiences can but sympathise. But we learned that there are few crowds tougher than a hangar full of senior military personnel, a great many decorated combat veterans among them, who after several decades in the service of their nation, have been abruptly whisked from their posts, many of them a long way away and presumably reasonably busy, what with one thing and another to be told what a lousy job they've been doing by by a preening bozo who used to host the morning show on Fox News. No more identity months DEI offices, dudes in dresses. No more division distraction or gender delusions. No more debris. As I've said before, and we'll say again, we are done with that. We also learned that beards are indicative of defective character. We don't have a military full of Nordic pagans, but unfortunately we have had leaders who either refused to call BS and enforce standards or leaders who felt like they were not allowed to enforce standards. In fairness, he does have to work with JD Vance, but we learned mostly that there is no silence quite so silent as the silence emitted by several hundred flag officers and senior NCOs at the end of such a harangue. No, wait. Quite so agonizing as the weight for their applause as one slinks sweatily from the stage, move out and draw fire. Because we are the War Department.
- [55:17]
David M. Andrews
Godspeed.
- [55:23]
Andrew Muller
We absolutely did not edit that. We may have added that, but we learned that Secretary Hegseth did have kind of a point, as we learned very quickly of the perils of obviously overweight and manifestly unfit commanders. For we learned that the Commander in chief also wanted a word.
- [55:55]
Will Hodgkinson
Oh no.
- [55:56]
Andrew Muller
From which we learned that Molly, modern warships are the wrong shape. I'm a very aesthetic person, and I don't like some of the ships. An ugly ship is not necessary in order to say you're stealth. That White House stationary either is or used to be insufficiently sturdy. Not easy to tell. I want the A paper, not the D paper we used to sign a piece of garbage. I said, this man's gonna be a general, right? Yeah, I don't want to use this. I want to use the big, beautiful firm paper that stairs can be difficult. I'm very careful, you know, when I walk downstairs like these stairs, I'm very. I walk very slowly, although not for everybody so one thing with Obama, I had zero respect for him as a president, but he would bop down those stairs. I've never said that. Among many, many other things of which it did not occur Lincoln to speak at Gettysburg. But we learned that the president may have had other things on his mind, or at least other B's in his bonnet. We learned that the president had resolved to come clean at last, put the truth before the American people, clear up the issue which has hung over his presidency and the nation too long, and declassify all the files relating to Earhart. It's President Trump calling on his administration to declassify and release all government records related to Amelia Earhart. Dubbed the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic, the aviation pioneer vanished nearly 90 years ago, from which we seem likely to learn that spoiler alert, she's still missing. And slash. But we learned that the president, though famously fond himself of having his learned friends shake down his boots, amused enemies may have met his match where vexatious litigation is concerned. We learned that Trump is being sued for $40 trillion. That is a bit north of the United States entire annual GDP by Jacob Chansley, better known as the QAnon Shaman. That is that guy who participated in the botched insurrection of January 6, 2021, while wearing a furry hat with horns in it. Not those kind of horns, but appreciate the effort. We learned from the details of Chansley's suit that he also seeks settlements from the Federal Reserve, the National Security Agency, the International Monetary Fund, Warner Brothers T. Mobile, Israel, and Elon Musk. And why not? And furthermore believes himself to be the rightful President of the United States. We, for one whimsical news monologue, look forward to this looming legal showdown between an absurd, weird looking social media addled dingbat and convicted criminal. Clearly not entirely with us mired in loopy conspiracy theories and who could not capably lead ants to sugar, Never mind the free world and the Q Anon Shaman. Come on, you'd have been disappointed if we hadn't. For Monocle Radio, I'm Andrew Muller.
- [59:10]
Emma Nelson
And my thanks to Andrew for that. A brand new installment will air at the same time next week right here on the Globalist. Well, that's all the time we have for today's program. The warmest of thanks to all my guests and to the producers, Hassan Anderson, Anita Riota. Our researcher was Daniela Brauer Smith and our studio manager was Elliot Green, with editing assistance from Mariella Bevan. For now, from me, Emma Nelson.
- [59:31]
Gloria Guevara
Goodbye.
- [59:31]
Emma Nelson
Thank you very much for listening and have a great weekend.
- [59:41]
UBS Narrator
With ubs, you have a truly global partner incorporating new technologies, innovative approaches and unexpected opportunities, leading you to insights that help answer the questions that matter. Delivered with passion, care and unmatched expertise. Because it's about rising with the dawn each day, knowing that we can do even better. That's what banking is to us. Not just work, but a craft. UBS advice is our craft.