← The Globalist
The Globalist
Key EU leaders meet in Copenhagen to discuss drone security and Ukraine’s path to EU accession
00:58:52
Loading summary
Transcript106 lines
- [00:04]
UBS Narrator
Craft matters in small ways, like how a coffee is brewed, and in not so small ways, like how your money is cared for. Which is why for 160 years, UBS has elevated banking to a craft, tailoring unique strategies that combine human expertise with the latest technologies, all happening across 24 time zones and 12 key financial hubs. With you at the heart of it all, UBS advice is our craft.
- [00:38]
Emma Nelson
You're listening to the Globalist, first broadcast on 1st October 2025 on Monocle Radio. The Globalist in association with U. Live from London. This is THE Globalist with me, Emma Nelson. A very warm welcome to today's program. Coming up with heightened security, EU leaders gather in Copenhagen I believe firmly that.
- [01:20]
Ketakandrina Rafitson
We are at a moment where decisive action on our side can lead to.
- [01:25]
Emma Nelson
A turning point in this conflict. As the bloc pledges to step up to help Kyiv, we'll look ahead to a summit where a fast track accession to the bloc for Ukraine and Moldova could be up for discussion. Also ahead in the next 60 minutes, there are fresh protests on the streets of Madagascar as water and power cuts continue. I'll have the latest and ask why. Across the world, young people are now increasingly mobilizing against their governments. Plus, the work of France's finest craftsmen and women goes on show in Tokyo, a Chanel opens an exhibition of the work of Le Disneuve M in the Japanese capital. That's all coming up on the Globalist. Live from London. First, a look at what else is happening in today's news. Non essential government services are grinding to a halt in the United States after Democrats and Republicans failed to agree on a funding deal. 69 people have been killed in the central Philippines, which has been rocked by a shallow and powerful earthquake. And the Ukrainian president has warned that the situation at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant is becoming critical after seven days without external power. Stay tuned to Monocle Radio throughout the day for more of these stories. But first, Denmark, or rather its skies, have attracted a lot of attention this week with several of its airports closed because of an incursion of drones. With Moscow suspected to be behind the drones, allies have pledged their assistance. With Paris and Stockholm sensing soldiers, radars and a helicopter, well, it was a strong sign of solid solidarity ahead of today's EU leaders meeting in Copenhagen. And to tell us more about what lies ahead, joining us from Copenhagen is Suzanne lynch, who's Bloomberg's Brussels bureau chief. A very good morning to you, Suzanne.
- [03:16]
Suzanne Lynch
Good morning.
- [03:16]
Emma Nelson
So as I said, the focus has been on Denmark for the Last couple of days for the wrong reasons. How has this set the tone for this meeting?
- [03:26]
Suzanne Lynch
Yes, I mean, there's been a lot of concern in the run up to this summit because of these air incursions that have taken place which have closed airports across Denmark in, in the days running up to the summit. And as a result, there's a lot of, you know, security presence here. Denmark has asked for help from other countries. It's banned civilian drones ahead of this gathering. It's obviously a high security event. You've got all EU leaders meeting here today for a summit, and then tomorrow they will be joined by leaders from across the wider European landscape. So not just EU leaders. So very profile, very high security level here and a lot of concern that there was possible Russian involvement in these drone incursions that have some kind of warning. So I think it's put everyone on edge ahead of this gathering, indeed, because.
- [04:21]
Emma Nelson
As you said, we have two meetings. We have this informal meeting of EU leaders today, and then tomorrow we have the NATO Secretary General, Mark Rutter in town talking about a broader discussion with European leaders about investments in air defenses and security. Let's focus on today's events. The headline that is dominating proceedings is Ukraine, not because of the security situation, but because of its attempts to sort of beat a pathway to the European Union's door and gain entry.
- [04:52]
Suzanne Lynch
Yes, I mean, this has been a major strategy objective for Ukraine and President Zelensky, this bid to join the EU. And back in 2022, the European Commission, European Union gave the green light to Ukraine as well as Moldova to start accession negotiations. Now, the reality is that these negotiations to join the EU can take years, decades. Some countries who wanted to join are still waiting in the wings, as it were. For example, Serbia, even Turkey, which is officially an accession candidate. But the European Commission president has previously said that she believes Ukraine can join by 2030. But there is an issue in that at the moment, the way EU rules work, member states can have a veto over huge issues like this, like deciding if someone country can join the bloc. And to date, Hungary's Viktor Orban has made it clear that he is opposed to Ukraine joining. And he has repeatedly says this. He's concerned about the impact on the EU of Ukraine ever joining. So what the European Council President Antonio Costa is suggesting is that there might be some way around this. There might be some way to change the rules, that instead of unanimity, that a qualified majority of countries could decide to take big decisions like accession. However, I think that is, you know, a bit of A pipe dream in the sense that to change the rules, you would need unanimous agreement by all countries. And in that point, you would probably get hungry blocking that. So. But I do think there are some innovative ways, conversations happening, that perhaps they could begin these conversations and really try and progress Ukraine's accession process without formal, maybe, you know, opening the next chapter in these negotiations. But do a lot of the legwork, if you like, without having to get Hungary's involvement.
- [06:50]
Emma Nelson
Indeed. I mean, the European Union has been engaging in a bit of a charm offensive, hasn't it, with the Hungarian authorities. But at the end of the day, there is this problem that Viktor Orban does not like. President Volodymyr Zelensky. And President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine said that drones in its airspace could have come from Hungary. That once you have a sort of a fundamental problem between two leaders and two countries, the more general push to find consensus is always going to be hard. It is.
- [07:23]
Suzanne Lynch
And one of the most interesting political developments in the last few weeks, in fact, has been this, perhaps this pressure that has been coming on Hungary and Slovakia to change their stance, their veto on the Russian sanctions package. And that pressure has been coming from Donald Trump because he's been pressurizing Europe to stop buying Russian oil. And the two countries that are continuing, continuing to receive Russian oil are hungry, and Slovakia. So you could see this pressure coming from Washington on Hungary. So perhaps there is, you know, some kind of pressure point that can be used to try and get Viktor Orban around the table. Of course, the other aspect of this is that people don't say it out loud, but the reality is that Viktor Orban may not be the leader of Hungary forever. And in fact, neither might Volodymyr Zelensky be the leader of Ukraine. So, you know, it's a long way until 2030. A lot can change. Governments change, political priorities change. So I think the aim of the EU is in terms of the accession and Ukraine joining the eu. You know, as I said, it never, you know, it's already quite a jump to say that Ukraine will be ready to join in 2030 anyway, regardless of Hungary's opposition. So I think the aim is to try and get the conversation going and try to help Ukraine reach these strict milestones that countries have to meet over the next few years and then see where things lie in 2030. And perhaps they're not just countries like Hungary. Maybe other countries are resisting, reluctant, you know, quietly hiding behind Hungary, if you like, that are worried about the impact of Ukraine joining, particularly in terms of its agriculture market, because it's such a big agricultural producer and the impact that would have in the EU if it was to join.
- [09:00]
Emma Nelson
Indeed, I mean, despite the. When we look at the path that Ukraine is trying to take to get in, it's often, as we just discussed there, the barriers that are pushing its way. But there are quite a lot of things that Ukraine still needs to do because Brussels has set quite a high bar on a number of measures that the Ukraine, the Ukrainians will actually struggle to clear at the moment if they're going to get membership.
- [09:25]
Suzanne Lynch
Yes, exactly. I mean, this is the one, you know, this is the calling card that the EU has. A number of countries want to join the EU and in order to do that they have to reach strict milestones and that, you know, the argument is that encourages positive change in these countries. So already one could argue that Ukraine has pushed through a lot of reforms, bad needed reforms, because it's trying to reach the EU standard. So it's the carrot and stick approach, but there have been some bumps in this. And during the summer Zelensky was highly criticized for new, you know, anti corruption laws that were proposed. And there was a real pushback from Brussels and indeed other allies about this. They didn't like this in terms of democratic standards in Ukraine. So I think, you know, there is concern about this history of corruption in the country, although huge, huge strides have been made. And I say this promise or possibility of EU membership has spurred those changes in those countries. There are also the question of Moldova as well. Mova also wants to join the eu and last weekend we saw a decisive victory by Maesandu, the ruling Prime Minister, and she, her party or pro EU party, won that election despite evidence of Russian interference. So Moldova also is trying to make that progress towards joining the eu. And we will see. Sandu and we presume President Zelensky as well as a host of non EU leaders here in Copenhagen on Thursday.
- [10:56]
Emma Nelson
Let's finally talk about what is happening tomorrow. We've had the informal meeting today, but there will be a broader discussion, including the likes of Ukraine and indeed the United Kingdom, where they talk about collective investment in air defences. The Danish Prime Minister Mehta Friedrichsen has said that what happened this week was a major wake up call for Europe. Indeed, what's happened in the last few weeks with the incursion of drones. What needs to be done here and what can be done?
- [11:26]
Suzanne Lynch
Yes, well, the European Commission came forward with a paper on Monday outlining some options and one of those is the concept of a drone wall. And this is the idea of a kind of protective shield if you like, to try and guard against these drone incursions that in some cases we know for sure came from Russia and that have been affecting countries in the east, including Estonia and Poland. Now, of course, the fear is if this goes further, NATO has said it's prepared to act, prepared to take down any Russian planes and of course, drones in its area. So things are really ratcheting up now. One question will be where the funding comes from this. The EU already has a number of defence programs, 150 billion loan program that countries can apply to. So will money for this drone wall come from that or will there be need for more funding on this? But it is very much now a concern at the safety of these other countries around Ukraine. Ukraine actually ironically has adapted to this new changing warfare, this drone warfare that has emerged over the last year or so. Other countries near Ukraine, other European countries, not so much. So I think that's going to be a huge focus when countries talk about the defence agenda, how to increase not just ground defense, maritime space based elements, but also how to guard against these hybrid attacks, as are sometimes known by Russia.
- [13:00]
Emma Nelson
Suzanne Lynch, Bloomberg's Brussels bureau chief, currently in Copenhagen. Thank you so much for joining us. On the globalist. It's 1412 in Beijing and 7:12am here in London. Now let's revisit the trade relations between the United States and China. Having launched the start of an increasingly heated tit for tat on so called Liberation Day in April, the US President has imposed a series of sweeping tariffs on imports from China and Beijing has responded in kind. While diplomatic efforts eventually brought both sides to the table in Geneva, where there was a partial rollback of tariffs agreed upon. But it now appears that another meeting could be scheduled for next month. Could this solve the problems? Well, to tell us more, I'm joined now from our Zurich studio at dufourstrassenheit by Nico Luchsinger, who's executive director for the Asia Society Switzerland. A very good morning to you, Nico.
- [13:54]
Nico Luchsinger
Good morning from Zurich.
- [13:55]
Emma Nelson
So there is a new meeting on the cards?
- [13:58]
Nico Luchsinger
There is indeed. And that's something that's been discussed for a while. It's now all but confirmed that US President Trump and Chinese President Xi will meet on the sidelines of the APEC summit that's in Seoul in late October, early November. So there will very likely be a bilateral meeting, the first in many years between the two leaders and we'll have to wait and see what it brings.
- [14:20]
Emma Nelson
Well, do we have any clue what might be discussed here? Because obviously the ramifications of this trade war have been very strongly and really felt correct.
- [14:33]
Nico Luchsinger
I should say that with this particular US administration, predictions have become slightly harder than maybe with previous administrations. So it's always tricky to try to predict what would be discussed and even more so what the outcome would be. Having said that, the expectation would obviously be that the meeting would seal and clarify the fate of TikTok in the U.S. that's something that's been already discussed and that the U.S. side has announced that there is a solution and they're close to solution. Fentanyl, the problem of fentanyl, Chinese fentanyl imports into the US is another issue. There was also talk that the war in Ukraine would be discussed. So there's a range of issues that might be on the table at present. I would be a bit cautious in assuming that there's kind of a grand bargain that would do away with all the trade tensions and geopolitical tensions that are on the table. So I think the meeting can certainly help take tensions down a notch. It's unlikely to be the breakthrough that maybe some of us are hoping for.
- [15:37]
Emma Nelson
One thing that has been reported is the possibility that China might be trying to introduce Taiwan into negotiations, not physically, but to actually introduce the idea of Taiwan and the amount of help that the United States offers, offers Taiwan in return for an agreement or that sort of a soothing of the trade deal issues. What do we know about that?
- [16:03]
Nico Luchsinger
So there's been reporting, first reported by the Wall Street Journal, based on anonymous sources, that the Chinese side is asking the US to formally oppose Taiwanese independence as a part of any deal that could come up. Now, to put this into context, the U.S. of course, does not recognize Taiwanese independence. It adhered to the One China policy, like most countries around the world, for decades, where it does not support Taiwanese independence. It also doesn't explicitly oppose it. You know, it's had this, as we usually refer to a strategic ambiguity where it sort of tries to leave itself some wiggle room. So a public informal statement by the US side that it does oppose Taiwanese independence would be be a market shift. It would be a huge win for Beijing. I think it would propose a big problem for Taiwan, of course, but I also think it would lead to major discussions and pushback within the U.S. we should remember that even within the Republican Party, there's a strong constituency that supports Taiwan. And so my sense is that if this is actually true, so it's a pretty bold ask from the Chinese side Again, the Trump administration is nothing if not unpredictable. So I'm not saying this couldn't happen right now. I wouldn't assume that the likelihood of this going through is very, very high.
- [17:30]
Emma Nelson
Tell us just how dependent China is on America in terms of imports and exports, because by all accounts, Europe has overtaken America and also Latin America. Areas of Latin America have overtaken the United States in terms of China's market.
- [17:46]
Nico Luchsinger
Market, correct. I think we're definitely in. In a situation now where the US Market is important to China in the same way as it's important to a lot of countries. It still is, you know, sort of the number one consumer on the planet, but it has certainly lost in comparative relevance for China as well. And so if you look over the last few months, we can certainly see that the Chinese strategy vis a vis the Trump administration of playing hardball, of, you know, not caving immediate looking for a deal, but sort of, you know, sticking to a firm line, has paid off. It's hard to assess at this point what the actual effects on the Chinese economy are. They seem, at least not. It doesn't have. It doesn't seem to have taken a major hit yet. The Chinese economy has many issues, and this is just one of them. So I think China can also afford to play a bit of a longer game here. I don't think they're under immediate pressure to enter into a deal that they would not see as favorable to them.
- [18:52]
Emma Nelson
And finally, very briefly, there is a kicking in today of a trade agreement between efta, the European Foreign Trade Organization, and India. What does this mean?
- [19:03]
Nico Luchsinger
Right, so efta, which most people don't know, this is an organization including Switzerland, Norway, Liechtenstein and Iceland. And so these four countries have negotiated a free trade agreement with India that's coming into force today. There's been a lot of buzz about this here in Switzerland. As always, we treat trade agreements. It's very hard to know what they'll actually bring. We'll have to wait for quite a long time to have any robust data. But I do think the larger picture here is that there is increasing space for closer collaboration between not just the EFTA countries, but really all of Europe and India, as India is trying to maybe move away a little bit from its formerly close relationship with the US after the Trump administration imposed huge tariffs on them. So I think there is an opening also for European countries and for the EU to really strengthen that relationship. I think this is in both sides interest. So I think the free trade agreement that's coming into effect Today is one first sort of step in this direction. There is now talk of an India EU free trade agreement which has been negotiated for decades, possibly being concluded by the end of the year. And that of course would be a huge deal with two incredibly big markets agreeing to an agreement. And India historically has been very reluctant to enter into these kinds of agreements. So that would be a market shift and would be a very positive sign for the India Europe relationship.
- [20:33]
Emma Nelson
Nico Luxinger, executive director at the Asia Society Switzerland, thank you so much for joining us on the line from Dufourstrasse 90 in Zurich. Still to come on today's Globalist we.
- [20:44]
Momoko Ando
Can now like copy and paste everything, but you can't copy and paste if you didn't have the pure essence. Essence is something that you feel. That's why it had to be exhibition.
- [20:58]
Emma Nelson
We head to Japan for a celebration of the finest in French artisanship as Chanel opens an exhibition celebrating the work of its craftsmen and women. Stay with us on the Globalist.
- [21:12]
UBS Narrator
Craft is a matter of perspective, outlook and obsessive attention to detail. With UBS's Chief Investment Office House View, we're focused on identifying the latest investment opportunities and market risks to help you achieve your financial goals. So you get the big picture broken down into thought provoking insights delivered daily and curated by over 200 globally connected, locally active analysts. UBS bank is our craft.
- [21:49]
Emma Nelson
Let's continue with a look at today's newspapers and we head straight back to Zurich for a look at the newspapers with Noel Salmi, travel culture and sustainability writer, back once again in Dufourstrasse 90. Good morning Noel. How are you?
- [22:01]
Noel Salmi
Good, Emma. I'm well, how are you?
- [22:04]
Emma Nelson
Excellent. Glad to hear that you're in Dufourstrasse 90. How's it looking this morning?
- [22:07]
Noel Salmi
Morning it's looking great. Lot of traffic in Zurich out of control.
- [22:11]
Emma Nelson
Excellent. We shall put a stop to that immediately for you. Tell us what you found in the papers.
- [22:16]
Noel Salmi
Yes, well, as you know, the US Government shut government has gone into a shutdown once again and this time the travel industry might take a hit as it did in the past. CNN reports that although flights will continue, the aviation sector will be stressed. There'll be a lot of delays and cancellations. This on of already a hurting US Travel industry as Canadians have dropped by one third. Their visits to the US And European visitors have also reduced as well as Brazilians. So it's going to be taking a hit. Employees at security airports, at security checkpoints in airports and the 1300 air traffic controllers are still expected to go to work during this time, but they may have to do so without receiving a paycheck check.
- [23:09]
Emma Nelson
Some of the reports, I think there's an article in CNN this morning that's talking about how. Well, we're looking back to the six, seven years since we last had a government shutdown and that shut down travel at New York's LaGuardia Airport. There were delays everywhere. And also the U.S. air Traffic Control system is very much in the spotlight at the moment. And this is going to, you know, this shutdown is going to affect that.
- [23:32]
Noel Salmi
That's right. The U.S. air Traffic Control system is already seriously under. They have old equipment. They are trying to hire new employees, which has been very difficult considering the long training time required and the stress of the job. And this is only going to make it more difficult. In fact, what shut down airports last time is that some employees decided to all call in sick and then basically flights had to be canceled at New York's LaGuardia Airport.
- [24:05]
Emma Nelson
Okay, let's move on to some of areas of the not just travel, but the national parks are also shutting down as well.
- [24:13]
Noel Salmi
That's right. The national parks will be shutting down. They are also already stressed from cuts that were imposed during the Doge cuts. And right now the Trump administration is saying, as they said during his first term, that they will keep the parks open during his first term. The results of that were not good. They were open for one month and they came in and took advantage of that. In Texas, petroglyphs were damaged in Big Bend park, most notably in Joshua tree. 100-year-old these ancient, wonderful trees were cut down. In fact, the Guardian reported that 40 former superintendents have asked the National Park Service to please close the parks this time.
- [25:01]
Emma Nelson
Let's move on to a story in the Tagus Anzeiger. The Swiss hospitality is obviously globally celebrated. But I was reminded of this story. This is, this is to do about the selling too many Swiss hotels to foreign owners that I was up in the in, in Wengen a few weeks ago looking across a very beautiful, perfect, perfect view of the Jungfrau. And there were adverts for hotels and they were for sale and some of them were available to be bought by Swiss owners only. And some of them literally had open to foreigners. This is a, isn't it?
- [25:39]
Noel Salmi
Yeah, it is a problem. So what has brought about most recent concern is the traditional hotel, the Bellevue au Lac in Hilterfingen, which is on Lake Thun just down from Interlaken, an area that many visitors know was taken over earlier this year by the Seattle International Services of Abu Dhabi Group. And they removed pork and alcohol from the menu. And this caused a lot of concern among locals and guests that they feel that Swiss hotels are now going to lose their own character and not really be intended for Swiss guests. So Uli Schmetze, who is a member of the Federal Parliament and actually of a centre left group, he says he is representing his constituents from Bernese Oberland when he says that Switzerland should revise a law to limit foreign ownership of commercial property.
- [26:42]
Emma Nelson
One thing that this already has precedent for is in Switzerland there is it the rule called the Lex collar, which means that if you are a foreign national who does not reside in Switzerland, you can't buy property. And there's a call for this to be extended to hotels.
- [26:59]
Noel Salmi
That's right. So originally the Lex the collar back in 1983 extended to everything and then that restriction on commercial properties which include hotels was dropped in 1997. Yes. In fact, as a resident you have to be, you have to have a residency permit in Switzerland in order to be able to buy property, residential property. But he would like to see it re extended to hotels for that reason. The Hoteling group of Switzerland is against that. They say that the issue is that these hotels are too expensive for Swiss people to buy. But in fact the whole reason for that law in the first place was to stop the increased artificial inflation of real estate prices.
- [27:44]
Emma Nelson
Okay, thank you for that. What's the next story that you want to talk to us today on the Pay per View?
- [27:48]
Noel Salmi
Yeah, well, I thought it was really interesting in the Japan Times they're reporting that skilled worker visa holders are up and that the government wants to get more. And I thought it was interesting in light of the fact that in places like the US and around the world there's so much anti immigrant sentiment being expressed by certain government parties. And, and Japan really does have a critical labor shortage given its aging population. And so what it's trying to do is bring in more workers to fill these critical labor gaps. And it's trying to. It will plans to revise a previous visa program that some people say was a little bit subject to abuse because workers had to come in and be trained for three years and, and then couldn't change employers, which meant that they sometimes had, they came in as interns and sometimes that was a little bit they were in bad working conditions. But they even so that program has brought in an ever increasing number of workers and Japan now wants to have a more favorable program that can lead possibly to permanent residence in Japan.
- [28:56]
Emma Nelson
Noel Soundly on the line from our Zurich studio. Thank you so much for joining us on the Globalist. Now, a look at some of the other stories we're following today. Non essential government services are grinding to a halt in the US After Democrats and Republicans failed to agree on a funding deal. The shutdown is the first in almost seven years and will see hundreds of thousands of workers furloughed. Essential staff will continue to work unpaid. 69 people have been killed in the central Philippines, which has been rocked by a shallow and powerful earthquake. Hospitals have become overwhelmed with people receiving treatment outside because of hundreds of aftershocks. President Trump has told hundreds of generals and admirals that they should use American cities as a training ground against the enemy within. In a speech to top brass flown in from all over the U.S. he told them to be ready to operate in cities like Chicago, New York and Los Angeles. And the Ukrainian president has warned that the situation at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant is becoming critical after seven days without external power. Volodymyr Zelensky Russian shelling was preventing the restoration of power needed to cool the reactors to prevent a meltdown. This is the Globalist. Stay tuned. Now, on the outskirts of Paris lies an ultra modern building which is home to a group of experts in some of the world's oldest crafts. Le Disneuve M was created by Chanel after it bought some of France's finest workshops, from lace making to pleating and embroidery. The companies who work at Le Disneuve are not limited to working just for Chanel, but are arguably guaranteed a future in the long term because of Chanel's investment. Now, Le Disneuve M and the creations that are produced there have gone on tour to Japan. Ryuma Takahashi sent us this report from Tokyo with narration by Fiona Wilson. A new exhibition, La Galerie d' Un Dix? Neuf? M Tokyo, invites visitors to experience the theme of beyond the Horizon overlooking the city skyline from the Mori Art center gallery on the 52nd floor of a.
- [31:14]
Momoko Ando
Tower in central Tokyo.
- [31:16]
Emma Nelson
It presents a space where Japanese and French craftsmanship intersect and weave together visions of the future. One of the five members of the exhibition's editorial committee, the filmmaker Momoko Ando, explains the idea behind the project.
- [31:30]
Momoko Ando
Actually, when this whole exhibition was completed the first time I went around the exhibition, I've recently realized it starts from the future to the past. So beyond our horizons, you enter from beyond horizons. What's very special about this exhibition is it's not only introducing Disney fm, but Collaborating with Japanese craftsmanship. And then you go into 100 years of the Chanel history. I would say one thing would be quality that we can now like copy and paste everything. But you can't copy and paste if you didn't have the pure essence. Essence is something that you feel. That's why it had to be exhibition. The exhibition brings together 30 artisans and.
- [32:22]
Emma Nelson
Artists from Japan and France engaging in a dialogue about the future of craftsmanship and materials. French artist Clara Ambert shared the inspiration she gained from the experience.
- [32:35]
Momoko Ando
I'm a French artist based in Paris. I was invited by the 19M to collaborate with a Japanese artist, Suzuki Moriza, who's a craftsman working with cast iron. I really think Japan and France, in that sense, we do have this thing that I consider a quality, you know, that is protecting our craft. And, and 19M is really doing that for us in Paris and is very important. I think that's very important to continue the traditions, but I think also that traditions can evolve. They do not necessarily need to be that stiff. Suzuki San, for example, it's usually a traditional thing to pass on the craft from father to son. He learned from his mother, who was the first one of all those gentlemen generations to kind of decide she wanted to do that and stand up for it. It really moved me as a woman also working, you know, with the craft like metal, which is pretty much male dominated in general. I thought it was so interesting, you know, because Indian traditions are so important and they're also made to be challenged once in a while. In this exhibition, you have that challenge in very positive way.
- [33:52]
Emma Nelson
And that report was sent to us from our team in Tokyo. You're listening to the globalist here in the United Kingdom. Jaguar Land Rover, one of the most treasured global car giants, is struggling to piece itself together after a major cyber attack. The UK government will now underwrite a 1.5 billion pound loan guarantee to Jaguar Land Rover after the cyber attack forced a shutdown. Well, it's just an example of how in 2025, even the biggest brands can be exposed. Well, in Riyadh this week, the Global Cyber Security Forum will examine what business leaders can do to protect themselves. One man who knows an awful lot about this is Craig Jones, former cyber Director of Interpol. He joins us on the line now from Riyadh. A very good morning to you, Craig. Thank you for joining us.
- [34:41]
Craig Jones
Yeah, good morning. It's great to be here with you.
- [34:43]
Emma Nelson
So who do we need to worry about? I mean, we've had them described as the past, as the Hooded villains who operate in the shack shadows. But who's carrying out these attacks?
- [34:51]
Craig Jones
So look, these attacks are carried out by organized crime groups around the world effectively. And what they're looking at, they're looking at targeting vulnerabilities in the systems and networks of organizations and also the business email compromise as well. So there's a whole plethora of crimes they're looking to commit. But as you mentioned in your intro there, that Jaguar Land Rover one wasn't just an attack on one company. The knock on offensive, the knock on to that is 100,000 people that supply parts to that company. So again, the impact of the Jaguar Land Rover piece is massive in the UK to our communities.
- [35:27]
Emma Nelson
And talking a little bit more generally about what, what a cyber security attack does, I once had it described to me that if you have a burglar and they throw a brick at a window, if it bounces back, the burglar will move on to the next house. But if you have a cyber security attack, you have thousands of burglars throwing thousands of bricks 24 hours a day. Is there a sense that companies especially underestimate the volume and persist of this?
- [35:53]
Craig Jones
Yeah, I wouldn't use the brick analogy. I'd use the someone trying a door handle. It's a lot more subtle than that. You know, criminals try lots of doors every single day and the volume and scale of attacks is massive. I don't want to get down the AI piece, but you look about that as igniting and accelerating cybercrime massively. So that's allowing the criminals now to volume and scale. So you have millions of door handles being tried around the the world of companies and if they open that door, they walk through. Now sometimes these criminals are opportunistic, so they're just trying the door and trying to get in. But then you have them all target attacks where they're specifically identifying companies. And in fact, the whole bunch of pre work may have been done by the cybercriminals. So they might have stolen some theft in the first instance and they've used the data from those thefts from the thefts to then go after those companies specifically. And they do very crafted attacks at times. But also you had that brick at the window scenario.
- [36:53]
Emma Nelson
So tell us a little bit more about what the focus is in Riyadh today. Therefore, when you have this scale persistence and this sense by quite a lot that lots of companies still are being caught napping.
- [37:07]
Craig Jones
Yeah, I think what we have here, this goes back to 2020, when Kingdom Saudi Arabia had the G20 presidency. Two clear things came out from that. Empowering women in cybersecurity and protecting children of cyber space. So those are the two main themes that followed through now. So rather than just that policy decision and lots of talking after the G20 that's now continued in the kingdom. And they've actually put down some very, very strong foundations going forward. And the GCF brings together global leaders past, present and future. And it's not just about discussions. There'll be some real actual outputs from this where we discuss those latest trends, we look at the challenges we face and then we come up with solutions. But throughout the year thereafter, then we have to enact that. We have to ensure that's baked into policy in government. We have to ensure within industry that they're not just there making lots of money, they are there serving their customers, protecting the communities who as we said, you know, they lay that infrastructure over the companies to protect them.
- [38:08]
Emma Nelson
It is that jump, isn't it, that you just mentioned. Two things. There is government policy and then there is a private sector having to actually do, do put into place how big are the gaps there still.
- [38:19]
Craig Jones
So let's look at the government side. The government are responsible policy and country security, that's the role of government. The industry operate the critical infrastructure or critical assets. And those two pieces have to come together very, very clearly in countries. So looking now, countries taking that sovereign based approach that's figured, hang on, we don't want our data stored offshore. Necessary. We want to ensure as a country, country, we are looking after our citizens and our businesses here. So putting that basic part in first. But obviously the big tech companies, I mean they've got more information, more intelligence than some nation states because what they have is that information from around the world that they monitor and protect as well. So trying to narrow the gap between those two is really, really important. And again, there's some work going on with United nations at the moment with a new cybercrime convention which has taken two and a half years for the country, countries of the United nations to negotiate. And again that's putting some basic levels in for law enforcement cooperation within the cybercrime space, which is really important.
- [39:22]
Emma Nelson
Finally, if you're a business leader, I mean obviously there's the advice that you're, you know, you should build security into, into your, into your software before you even install it. But on the more business sense, what about insurance? Because by all accounts Jaguar Land Rover didn't have it.
- [39:40]
Craig Jones
Yeah, and that's a really interesting1. About 12 years ago, when I was working United Kingdom setting up a regional cybercrime unit, we were trying to find these facts and figures and I went to the insurance industry and what we found in the uk, there's a very immature market about time around insurance, but there's a mature market in the US now. Fast forward to where we are at the moment. It's quite hard for the insurance industry to quantify some of those insurance risks that they're facing. Effectively now it might be, and I don't know the circumstances of Jaguar Lander, but may have been too expensive for them or they hadn't had cyber insurance in place effectively. And that is one of the big challenges because when you close a company because of a ransomware attack, for example, we've seen companies that have suffered ransomware attacks, not been able to start up afterwards and they folded. So insurance is really important in this space. But again, it's like anything when you pay out after an incident, it's about how do you recover properly and how do you get your business back to up and running.
- [40:38]
Emma Nelson
Craig Jones, former Cyber Director of Interpol, talking to us on the line from the Global Cyber Security Forum in Riyadh. Thank you so much for joining us on Monocle Radio, 9:40am in Anton Anarivo and 8:40am in Zurich. Now, police have fired tear gas on protesters in Madagascar as hundreds of people have taken to the streets to protest at continuing power and water cuts. The country's president has already sacked his government in response, but this does not appear to have been enough. Well, I'm joined now from the Madagascaran capital by Ketakandrina Rafitson, who's a member of Transparency International Initiative Madagascar and Vice Chair of Transparency International.
- [41:20]
Ketakandrina Rafitson
Thanks for having me.
- [41:22]
Emma Nelson
Just explain to us or outline the seriousness of these protests because people have lost their lives, haven't they?
- [41:29]
Ketakandrina Rafitson
Yes. So the UN says that the protests, I mean the heavy repression facing the protests left at least 22 people dead and more than 100 injured. The protests briefly were triggered by immediate visceral grievances, repeated power outages and water shortages in the capital city which go to the heart of daily life, and lighting for homes, refrigeration for medicine and food, water for hygiene. But those immediate triggers are layered on top of long standing structural failures, chronic underinvestment in public services, massive corruption, a financially fragile state utility, which is the D that has struggled with debt and operational dysfunction, and a political system widely perceived as captured by narrow elite interests. In short, these are not just about technical problems. They really reflect policy and governance failures that have gone unresolved for years.
- [42:34]
Emma Nelson
So you have an almost perfect combination of problems there which have brought the situation to one of crisis. The President has sacked his government, but that's not satisfied the protesters has, it.
- [42:48]
Ketakandrina Rafitson
Hasn'T. And you know, the Gen Z movement who are leading the protest have clearly expressed the dissatisfaction regarding the President's disposal decisions and new promises. Dissolving a cabinet, in my point of view, is a classic short term political response to diffuse anger. It can by time create a theatrical sense of change and allow leaders to claim they have heard citizens. But Madagascar's crisis is deeper than that. It is institutional. The problem are embedded in how decisions are made, how contracts are awarded, how public enterprises are governed and how accountability is enforced. A different minister or a reshuffled cabinet will not automatically fix a bankrupt utility, eliminate procurement or restore trust in the justice system. That's why protesters are demanding more than personal changes. They want systemic reforms, independent investigations, investigations into excesses and corruption. Also, credible prosecutions were appropriate to end the pervasive impunity in Madagascar and real improvements in service delivery and social protection. Until those structural shifts are on the table and accompanied by transparent timelines and guarantees, the streets will stay.
- [44:12]
Emma Nelson
Tell us a little bit more, if you wouldn't mind the fact that you've outlined sort of endemic problems in Madagascar, but we have. Let's look a little bit further, further in your role in Transparency International. Let's look at what's happening in Morocco this morning. There are violent youth protests as well. What is happening at the moment which is or is there something that can be identified that young people are no longer satisfied with the situation that they find themselves in and have decided to take to protesting in person?
- [44:49]
Ketakandrina Rafitson
Yes, definitely. I think that young people are mobilizing across regions from Madagascar to Morocco. But also we have seen what happened in Nepal, in Peru and beyond in the last weeks for several common reasons, I think. First, they disproportionately experience the economic and environmental insecurity of our time. This is linked to precarious jobs, unaffordable housing, climate shocks and broken public services. And second, they are digitally connected. So social media accelerates mobilization, spreads tactics and narratives and lets movements learn from each other in real time. And third, I think there is a crisis of legitimacy across many countries. Institutions appear to see serve elites rather than publics and that corrupts trust. But the most common thing that I have observed, of course, in those uprisings led by youth is their firm stand against corruption. So we see the pervasive effects of corruption across the globe in various contexts, of course, but with the same consequences impoverishment of the population, population inequalities, injustices and impunity. So when you combine demographic weight, many of these countries are majority young with access to information and the perceived lack of alternatives and you get a combustible mix. The Gen Z uprisings share methods which are horizontal organizing, leaderless or networked structures and viral online application. And sometimes they share symbols and slogans borrowed from earlier movements. We see that in Madagascar with the use of the laughy anime from the One Piece anime, they are less often about seizing power for themselves than about demanding new rules of the political game.
- [46:54]
Emma Nelson
Ketakandrina Rafitson Member of Transparency International Initiative Madagascar and Vice Chair of Transparency International thank you so much for joining us on the line from Antanarivo.
- [47:09]
UBS Narrator
Iq, EQ and AI. Three components key to the craft of innovation at ubs. Because to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving age, you need a partner with decades of experience, endless passion for the work, and a finger on the pulse of leading technologies. Bridging human expertise with artificial intelligence, all to elevate you. UBS banking is our craft.
- [47:47]
Emma Nelson
Now if you're trying to get anything done in or with Greece today, please bear in mind there is a national strike on. Both private and public sector workers are taking industrial action over over the government's new employment laws. Well, to tell me more, I'm joined in the studio by Emmanuel Papavasiliu, who's a Greek journalist and a regular voice here on Monocle Radio. Good morning.
- [48:06]
Emmanuel Papavasiliu
Good morning Emma.
- [48:07]
Emma Nelson
Nice to have you on. Well, in a moment we'll go back to what we've just heard from what's happening in Madagascar. This idea that Gen Z is pushing a new kind of protest. But we have widespread strikes today, don't we, across Greece?
- [48:23]
Emmanuel Papavasiliu
We do, yes. As you mentioned, there's like a 24 hour nationwide general strike strike today in Greece and it's organized by the Greeks, two main unions which represent the private sector and Adadi which represents the public sector. The problem is basically this new labor law that the government is pushing since last year and it's gone into effect this year. And basically they are protesting a specific clause that basically normalizes a 13 hour workday. And in their opinion, basically it's something that workers believe that this will normalize a 13 hour workday every day. This is not actually the case. The government is just basically trying to introduce this in specific jobs only and introduce shift patterns like other countries do. Outwards however, young people specifically, they look for more into that. They, they're protesting not just for that, but because there's been a lot of, you know, job stagnation. There's been like, no increase in wages for a long time. And obviously the cost of living crisis have been increasing for a long time.
- [49:50]
Emma Nelson
So explain to us a little bit more about what the effect of this strike will be. I think if I understand it right, air travel strikes are not have just been deemed illegal, but if you're trying to get from A to B across Greece today, otherwise you're stuck.
- [50:05]
Emmanuel Papavasiliu
Oh, for sure. So people need to be aware that today there will be no taxis, there will be no rail, no ferries. Of course, the strike by the air traffic unit has been deemed illegal by a court, so flights will be moving forward. However, I would advise people to check for delays, huge delays today. And in fact, if you're arriving or if you're trying to leave, make sure to be there on time because it's going to be total chaos.
- [50:42]
Emma Nelson
Just explain to us the spirit and the mood in Greece at the moment. Greece will forever be remembered for the enormous numbers of public protests that took place in 2007, in 2008, because of the financial crisis and indeed, and subsequently, has Greece settled down or are we now looking at a new era of protest?
- [51:07]
Emmanuel Papavasiliu
We do, indeed. And it is different because back then, obviously, the strikes happened because of the economic crisis that the country was facing. Now, that is the reason why this new government, new democracy, came into power, because they had a new plan on how to deal with it. In fact, they have done an amazing job into fixing the economy. However, that doesn't automatically translate to fixing the economy, doesn't automatically translate to people living with more money. Wages have stayed the same, cost of living crisis has increased because of, you know, international issues.
- [51:48]
Emma Nelson
And this also brings in the issue about how Greece, which depends so heavily on tourism, is going to find itself down, damaged by this, of course, but.
- [51:57]
Emmanuel Papavasiliu
In the wider context of things, although today, you know, it's quite chaotic, we need to understand that, look, in 2024, the tourism industry generated over 20 billion. And this year's earnings are projected to reach the same, if not more, because of a bigger footfall of tourists. So I don't think today's protests would create an amazing, amazing dent into it.
- [52:22]
Emma Nelson
Manos. Emmanuel Papavasilio, thank you so much for joining me in the studio. You're listening to the Globalist on Monocle Radio. Finally, on today's program, a roundup of all the news from the art world. Ben Luke is contributing editor from the art newspaper and presenter of its excellent podcast. Ben, good morning to you.
- [52:44]
Ben Luke
Hello. How are you?
- [52:45]
Emma Nelson
Very well, thank you. How are you?
- [52:47]
Ben Luke
Good, thank you.
- [52:48]
Emma Nelson
Good. Right, what's happening in the world of art?
- [52:51]
Ben Luke
Okay, first off, UNESCO have launched their virtual museum of stolen cultural objects. So there's been a long time, very concerted effort by UNESCO to draw attention to all of the stolen, looted, trafficked, trafficked objects across. From across the world. They've launched this virtual museum which you can go on to online, and it's designed by the architect Francis Kere, and it includes thousands of stolen and cultural objects. So you go into this virtual museum which is shaped like a globe, and there is an auditorium where you can go and find out more about this project. Then there is a restitution room where actually it's a bit lonely. There's two objects in there, as far as I can tell, which have been restituted to Morocco that were stolen and found in Chile. But most importantly, there's this stolen objects room where basically you can just go through this terrifyingly large number of objects that are missing from museums and cultural institutions across the world. And they include things like the Caravaggio that was stolen from a church in Palermo. You know, so it's a kind of sobering but quite interesting and deeply educational process.
- [53:59]
Emma Nelson
What is the purpose of this museum other than to advise cultural institutions to step up their security? But is there also a wider point here as to just how much we have lost or indeed what stolen actually, actually means?
- [54:13]
Ben Luke
Yeah, I think, I think there's, there's multiple points about it. I think the first, most important point is that they say that learning about these objects is the first step towards their recovery. And so the awareness of these objects fundamentally impacts the effectiveness of these objects being circulated amongst these criminal gangs that Interpol, who's a partner in this organization, says are, you know, proliferating. So they're saying that basically it's getting more and more organized. There's criminal networks that are doing this stealing and trafficking, and they're therefore drawing attention to these objects is part of an educational process that makes it harder to do that fundamentally. But also. Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to acknowledge and it's all part of, you know, a very complex network of ideas around what an object is when it's stolen. But for instance, I don't. You're not going to find the, the Parthenon marbles that are in the British Museum in this, in this, in this Virtual gallery.
- [55:05]
Emma Nelson
Well, you've just mentioned this, and that actually sort of begs the question as to when you see things which are art, which some people have accused other countries and cultural institutions of. Of stealing. Where. Where does this museum sit?
- [55:19]
Ben Luke
Well, I think it's very much about trafficked objects. I think it's. This is about objects that were in institutions that were stolen by criminals, as opposed to objects that were stolen from countries in colonial situations. So, yeah, I mean, that. That whole ethical issue, I think, is being avoided, as far as I can tell.
- [55:37]
Emma Nelson
Okay, but.
- [55:38]
Craig Jones
But y.
- [55:39]
Ben Luke
This is very much trafficked objects.
- [55:40]
Emma Nelson
Yeah, that would make sense. Right, let's move on to a story about Vermeer. Tell us what's happening here.
- [55:48]
Ben Luke
Oh, this is a lovely story. So one of the most famous Vermeer paintings of all time is this extraordinary painting called the Art of Painting, which everybody who knows Vermeer will know it. It's a painter sitting in his studio at his easel depicting a model. And you see him beginning to paint the model and the model in the background in that gorgeous light, that amazing interior space that Vermeer would describe. Web. Now, it's always been assumed that this is the. This is the painting that's described in a legal document, which his wife, after vermeer dies in 1675, is desperately trying to get to keep hold of and to transfer to. To her mother so that it stays in the family and is. Was in Vermeer's studio for. For his whole life before he died and so on. The most important Vermeer in some ways, but it's. But this specialist in Dutch painting has found out that the way that it's described as Schilderkont, which means the art of painting actually means a very specific thing. It means an allegorical figure. So it would be a woman representing the art of painting, not an artist in their studio depicting a woman. And also, the woman in the Vermeer painting that we know is actually a. Is Cleo. So she represents. She's an allegorical figure representing history. So there is this intriguing possibility that there is this other painting that was in fact, the most important Vermeer in his lifetime that is out there somewhere and may be discovered. A very, very slim possibility, I suspect. But still, there may be a Vermeer out there that is enormously important.
- [57:17]
Emma Nelson
What is the likelihood of that actually? I mean, might have been rocking up in the. In the. In the Saudi Arabian place of stolen artifacts. But the. The fact remains is Vermeer didn't. There were not many Surviving Vermeers are there. So one would have imagined that this would have been written down somewhere. And, you know, just as a side question, who would have taken all the time to try and work out all this stuff?
- [57:39]
Ben Luke
Yeah, this is, this is I. This is art historians doing their brilliant work. This is a guy called Paul Taylor who's at the Warburg Institute, the Great Warburg Institute in London, and he has been studying. And if you. Basically, he worked out that if you look at this term in relation to painting, it's always an allegorical figure of painting. It's not. It would not represent an artist in their studio. And so this is, this is what makes it that intriguing possibility. But you're right, right? Vermeer's extant oeuvre, as we say in the art historical terms, extremely small. You know, it's 37 paintings. I may have got that right, but it's around 37 paintings, and most of them were in that amazing Rijksmuseum show. And actually this is, this, this scholarship is in a Rijksmuseum book about Vermeer, basically.
- [58:22]
Craig Jones
So.
- [58:23]
Ben Luke
So all this new work being done all the time on these painters that we think we know everything about have produced this rather intriguing, tantalizing idea that there may be another one out there, there somewhere, possibly in an attic. Who knows.
- [58:37]
Emma Nelson
Ben Luke, contributing editor at the art newspaper and presenter of its podcast, thank you so much for joining us. And that's all the time we have for today's program. The warmest of thanks to all my guests and to our producers, too, Monica Lillis, Chris Chermack, Desiree Bandley and Ryma Takahashi. Our researcher was Daniela Bros. Smith and our studio manager was Elliot Greenfield. After the headlines. There's more music on the way. The briefing's live at midday here in London. The Globalist is back in at the same time tomorrow. But for now, from me, Emma Nelson, goodbye. Thank you very much for listening. Foreign.
- [59:34]
UBS Narrator
With ubs, you have a truly global partner incorporating new technologies, innovative approaches and unexpected opportunities, leading you to insights that help answer the questions that matter. Delivered with passion, care and unmatched expertise. Because it's about right. Rising with the dawn each day knowing that we can do even better. That's what banking is to us. Not just work, but a craft. UBS advice is our craft.