Yasmin Abdel Majeed (3:19)

Morning.

Emma Nelson (3:20)

Just before we get to the Sudanese army's problem with the ceasefire, it appears in the last few hours the paramilitary rapid support forces have declared a unilateral three month humanitarian truce. So we have the army rejecting a truce and the RSF saying yes to a truce. What is going on?

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (3:41)

Well, the first thing to understand is that the RSF will say all sorts of things, you know, in these forums and do a completely different thing on the ground. So, and this is one of the kind of challenges that Sudan has faced over the last two and a half years is that even if Hemeti, the head of the rsf, says we accept a humanitarian truce, that is not at all reflective of what we're seeing on the ground, and this is something we've seen time and time again, there'll be a sort of acceptance of a humanitarian truce or a ceasefire, and that will not be reflected on the ground. So it is one of the kind of challenges is what analysts are calling forum shopping, essentially sort of going from one place to the other, accepting agreements in humanitarian truces here and there. But there is no enforcing of that. There's no sort of process of accounting, accountability. There's nothing of the sort. And so even though, and I would imagine it's the United Arab Emirates, which is the kind of main backer of the rsf, pushing for the sort of agreement in the room. And the army, of course, is not accepting that.

Emma Nelson (4:43)

Indeed. And so we can now go to the problem that the army is having with this ceasefire. This is a third draft attempt, isn't it, to try to bring about some semblance of, of peace in Sudan. And it had been put forward by the court, hadn't to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE and the US and the Saudi. Sorry, the Sudanese army said no.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (5:05)

Well, the, the court's proposition is definitely not in the interests of the Sudanese armed forces. Right. Because it effectively eliminates the existence of the armed forces, dissolves all of the security agencies and sort of maintains the RSF as the, the governing kind of military or militia.

Lars Bavanger (5:23)

Right.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (5:23)

It leaves the rsf. And for folks, folks might not quite remember, but this is kind of the core issue behind why this war kind of kicked off in the first place in April 2023. Because there was an agreement post, you know, the transitional period and post the kind of coup of 2021, that the RSF would be absorbed into the Sudanese armed forces. And this war began because the RSF didn't want to accept that.

Ed Stocker (5:46)

Right.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (5:47)

And so now this proposition is almost the kind of flip side of that, that the armed forces would be absorbed into the. And so ultimately what we're kind of seeing is wrangling between these two military groups. I mean, obviously the armed forces are the sort of sovereign military body and the RSF is the, is a sort of militia. Both of them are kind of grappling for supremacy. But at the moment, both of them also still believe that they can win a military battle. Right. They can win on the ground. Militarily, however, that has been unsuccessful up until this point. And they, neither side really has the military capabilities, ability to do that. Sudan is also an enormous country, so to do that on the ground is difficult. So what we're seeing is a bit of a stalemate with the armed forces kind of having the east and Khartoum, the capital and the rsf, especially after the fall of Al Fashir, which is the capital of North Darfur and the last place that the Sudanese armed forces had, you know, any sort of control. Now the west and parts of Kurdufan are completely under RSF control. And so we're sort of seeing these positions become more and more entrenched.

Emma Nelson (6:53)

And so we now have a country effectively split down middle. And one of the issues, or probably one of the biggest issues that the army had was with this, this proposal for a ceasefire was the involvement of the uae. They are part of the quad. But there are reports that the UAE and the rsf, the rebel paramilitary, are connected.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (7:15)

Yes, I mean, the UAE continues to deny all allegations, but it's widely believed that the UAE is not only sort of financially supporting, but also supporting militarily with, you know, equipment and weapons and so on. And you know, many analysts kind of argue that if it hadn't been for the UAE support over the last two and a half years, we would not, the war would not have gone on for as long as it has. And also, you know, there are, there is evidence of, you know, gold exports, livestock exports, etc. All from kind of RSF controlled territories going straight to the UAE. So it's very clear that that relationship is there. And from, from the armed forces point of view, they sort of see the UAE as this, a foreign actor that they also don't have under their control. Right. Because the army kind of wants to be in the position of power and able to kind of control foreign actors.

Emma Nelson (8:07)

And the UAE is also accusing the Sudanese army of blocking any progress in any attempts to create a ceasefire.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (8:14)

And you know, in, in some way they're right. But also It's. They're also trying to kind of protect their own interests. Right? Because ultimately what the UAE wants is to protect, you know, its financial position. All right? And it also has quite a lot of land in Sudan. And, you know, that's something the UAE is all kind of constantly looking at how to protect its own interest in the region. And so they're going to be pushing back against the armed forces. I mean, this is the challenge. On one side, you've got Saudi Arabia, Egypt. On the other, you've kind of got the uae. And I'm sure we've talked about this before on the show, lots of other kind of actors dipping in and out the United States. Part of the reason this has come about is because Saudi Mohammed bin Salman, the crown prince, asked Donald Trump, the president of the United States, to sort of get involved. And Trump kind of on stage had this sort of bombastic speech, as he does about Sudan. And so there's been, like, a little bit of a fire lit underneath these negotiations. But ultimately, there is no way to force either the army or the RSF to accept any proposal.

Emma Nelson (9:14)

At the heart of this on the ground is the worst humanitarian crisis existing on earth at the moment. And we, you know, we're seeing reports weekly daily of brutality atrocities that are being committed in El Fash particular. How much is that actually making anybody else pay attention?

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (9:31)

I mean, this is the real challenge, Emma, because I think, you know, you're sort of having all these negotiations, these sort of geopolitical conversations and whatnot about, you know, the security of the region and the shape of Sudan going forward. But ultimately on the ground, I mean, what we're seeing in Al Fashr. So the context is Al Fashr was under siege for over 500 days. It fell a few weeks ago. The RSF kind of came in and the arm left and the 250,000 people that had remained in Al Fashr have either been executed or, you know, or are hiding still. There's no evidence of any civilian movement in the city, and about 26,000 have made it out to safety in other parts of Darfur. And so, you know, we are talking about the continual genocide, you know, the continuation of the Darfur genocide from 2003-5. And as you note, the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. And the funding, you know, we want to talk about international kind of engagement. The ask is 4 billion, only 27% of that. So about a billion has been funded. And so, you know, the UN rep on the ground, Denise Brown, has said it's impossible for us to do anything. It's impossible for us to protect any civilians because there's just no ability to do so.

Emma Nelson (10:49)

That the wider context is the idea that, you know, international funding is going in. But as we've seen international pressure, coercion does not seem to be working. The proposal of a ceasefire agreement is being rejected. So what needs to be done next by the international community, if anything, to try to break the deadlock?

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (11:08)

I mean, there would have to be pressure on the powers that are supporting either side. So for ex, and particularly I would say, you know, one of the intransigent actors here is the uae. Like to force the UAE to change its approach to the rsf because the UAE is the only country that the RSF will really listen to because of their sort of ties together. And when the UK under the Tory government did try to say something about this, they were immediately, there was like immediate retribution, sort of diplomatically. And so pressure on the UAE to force the RSF to change its behavior on the ground and also then pressure on the armed forces through Egypt and Saudi as an example would be a way to get them. Because these actors at the moment, there is no downside for them. They can continue doing this until kingdom come, but unless their backers force a change, and that's something the international community can do, if there's enough diplomatic pressure, then we can see some change on the ground.

Emma Nelson (12:06)

Yasmin Abdelmejid, thank you for joining us in the studio. Yasmin, you're going to disappear for a moment, but we'll have you back a little bit later because you're going to do the pay per view for us. So thank you so much for staying around. You're listening to the Globalist on Monocor Radio.

UBS Narrator (12:22)

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Emma Nelson (12:59)

The time is what? 8:12am in Prague? 7:12am here in London. Now, as a former army general, the President of Czechia or the Czech Republic, Petr Pavel knows the importance of unity across Europe, especially when it comes to Russia or Prague is currently playing host to the Polish President Karol Noki, who's on a state visit there. On the agenda will be security with the Russian invasion of Ukraine and last week's sabotage of Polish train tracks on route between Poland and Ukraine uppermost the trouble is President Navrosky may not be as committed to Pan EU security as President Pavel may hope. Well, the journalist Rob Cameron joins us now from Prague to explain all. A very good morning to you, Rob.

Rob Cameron (13:43)

Good morning, Emma.

Emma Nelson (13:44)

So this is all about priorities and.

Rob Cameron (13:46)

Alliances Today it is, it is the President of the Czech Republic, PETA pavel. He received Mr. Novrotski with full military honours. The two men marching past ranks of castle guard soldiers assembled in the courtyard of prior castle up in Haradchany. And there was indeed when the two men briefed the media after their meeting, there was much talk of how far they are on the same page when it comes to Ukraine, when it comes to Russia clearly being the aggressor in this conflict and the need to find a solution to this conflict which is acceptable to Ukraine with Ukraine's input. So on that, on Russia, on Ukraine, the two men, even though they're from very different political camps, certainly were speaking from the same script. But when you peel back the layers of it and look a bit more deeply, then some of those divisions that we've seen in Central Europe among its presidents and prime ministers in the Viseograd group of four Central European countries and beyond began to become apparent.

Emma Nelson (15:03)

So explain to us these divisions because effectively the Czech Republic and Poland are experiencing the same tensions internally and the two men, Mr. Pavel and Mr. Novrotsky, are effectively on opposite sides.

Rob Cameron (15:18)

They really are. That's exactly it. And it's a sort of mirror image situation in Poland and the Czech Republic. In Poland you have a president who is on the face of it, impartial. He's supposed to be a non partisan president, but he was frankly elected with the support of the conservative nationalist Pisces party, very much in opposition to the more liberal Prime Minister at the moment, Donald Tusk. In the Czech Republic we have this liberal president, PETA Pavel very much agrees with Donald Tusk on many of the issues facing Europe and their two countries. And he is in opposition to the man who will, we think soon be Prime Minister of the Czech Republic, Andre Babis, who is a much more sovereigntist and indeed, you know, conservative. He says he's a centrist, but he's really aligned with the right wing Patriots for Europe group in the European Parliament. So you have that tension at the heart of both Polish and Czech politics. And they have to exist not only as two neighbours, but as I mentioned earlier, two members of this group of Central European countries. The Vishegrad Group, which essentially at an intergovernmental level, has been paralyzed ever since those Russian tanks rolled in to Ukraine in February 2022.

Emma Nelson (16:52)

What about the role of Europe here? Because we had the Polish Foreign Minister Sikorski, accusing the Polish President, Karel Nocki, last week of fostering an anti EU spirit in a speech he gave. I mean, this is obviously, as you have just described, laid out the internal tensions in Poland. But to have that kind of argument going on in Poland won't go down well in the Czech Republic. With President Pavel.

Rob Cameron (17:21)

Not with President Pavel. But then you also, I think, have to, Emma, appreciate the limits of the real hard political power that presidents in this part of the world have. You know, neither President Pavel nor President Navrotsky is Macron or Trump. You know, these guys, in some countries, they are merely ceremonial heads of state who, you know, cut ribbons and open sports centers and supermarkets. And in other countries like the Czech Republic and perhaps to a degree Poland, they have a bit more power than that. And we can see that here in Prague, as President Pavel is really dragging out the process of appointing this new Babish government. But their power really is limited. These are parliamentary democracies, they're not presidential systems. And it really is the government which is, you know, obviously elected by the parliament, that has all the power. And I suppose that is perhaps the most important thing to bear in mind in Central European politics.

Emma Nelson (18:24)

Despite this absence of real sort of absolute heft, where is it that these two men will be able to find common ground?

Rob Cameron (18:33)

I think, as we say, on Ukraine, on Russia, certainly that is where the Czech Republic and Poland do see eye to eye. And even Andrei Babi, the incoming prime minister, even though his support for Ukraine is more lukewarm, I think he also ultimately realizes and knows that his own voters see this, that it's Russia that is the aggressor in Ukraine, and that the lessons of Munich that, you know, when Czechoslovakia was dismembered in 1938 cannot be repeated. But look a bit further across the borders of Central Europe to Slovakia, to Hungary. There they have a far different attitude to Ukraine, to Russian energy imports. The Czechs and the Poles have weaned themselves off Russian oil and gas. The Slovaks and the Hungarians are still very much sucking at that teat, if I can use that word, at 8:15 in the morning.

Emma Nelson (19:30)

You just did wrong.

Rob Cameron (19:32)

I just did, indeed. So there, you know, the policies and the attitudes are very, very different. And that's really what's paralyzed the Vishagrad group, which 10 years ago was a fairly, you know, meaty, powerful informal group of four prime ministers of Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary who came together to resist the EU's efforts to impose these migrant quotas for asylum seekers there. They largely succeeded. But that strength and solidarity has just disappeared because these two groups of countries, the Czechs and Poles on one hand, Slovaks and Hungarians on the other, simply do not agree about the role of Russia in Europe, about the role of Russian energy in Central Europe and what to do about Ukraine.

Emma Nelson (20:21)

Rob Cameron in Prague, thank you so much for joining us on the line. Still to come on today's program, I.

Marjan Faraidouni (20:27)

Think what was wonderful about how we manage our city is that it's anchored in a set of values and a vision.

Emma Nelson (20:34)

We find out how the site of Dubai's World Expo 2020 has been transformed. Stay with us on the GLOBAL.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (20:47)

Foreign.

Emma Nelson (20:51)

Let'S continue now with today's papers. Back in the studio is the Australian Sudanese writer and broadcaster Yasmin Abdel Wajid. Hello again. Hello. So you've changed your hat. You're now taken off the Sudanese commentary hat and is now now have gone and done the papers for us. Thank you so much for your efforts today. Very appreciated. Where do you want to begin?

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (21:09)

Let's start with a story in the AP about the Trump administration planning to review refugees admitted under Biden. So in a memo obtained by the Associated Press, it's stating that a review of almost the 200,000 refugees that came into the United States during Biden's period, Biden's presidency, are all going to be reviewed. And this is sort of almost unprecedented because these are people who have already gone through extensive vetting. Many of them will sort of have settled status. Many of them might have already started applying for a green card and maybe have have actually received a green card. All of those green card applications are being susp and of course, this is being immediately slammed by refugee advocate groups and so on. But it is a reflection of the sort of hostile environment, immigration policy that the Trump administration is pursuing.

Emma Nelson (22:03)

And it strikes deep, actually into a problem inside the Republicans insofar as many voters who voted for Donald Trump and who have been committed Republicans probably wanted to get rid of illegal migrants who were violent, who were criminals, who were problems there would be draining the swamp, finding, finding, removing the, you know, the unpleasant parts of immigration, yet to go towards refugees is something that is rather different.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (22:31)

Well, I mean, you could argue that the United States is based on, you know, the entire modern project of the United States is a place that accepts people from, you know, Ellis island is famously accepting of all sorts of people. And immigration is a core kind of component of why the United States is the economic powerhouse that it is, because it attracts people from all over the world and their talents and their offspring and so on. You know, believe in the American dream and so on. And so, yes, this is kind of really like hitting at the core of what the United States has kind of traditionally been. And also, it's a challenge to international law and it's a challenge to the kind of idea of the refugee convention and the. And so, you know, you spoke, you just spoke about sort of Trump's voters. There was another report that talked about, you know, Hispanics reporting that they're feeling quite low under Donald Trump's presidency, which, you know, might not be a surprise, might not be a surprise, but many of them did vote for Donald Trump. And it's sort of, it's this tension, isn't it, between people who voted for Donald Trump based on his kind of statements and his manifesto, as it were, but also the experience of what that manifesto sort of looks like in lived reality is a bit of a challenge.

Emma Nelson (23:49)

And indeed, the image that we will all get, and indeed America will get was we've seen the ICE raids and that will obviously act as a sort of chilling effect to illegal migration. But yet at the same time, once we start to see examples of refugees being singled out, a, this is a long legal process, but B, it will convey a very strong message to the outside world.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (24:12)

Indeed. And also it again, challenges the notion that you're safe at any point. Right. And, you know, often if you're a refugee that has been settled in the United States, again, you've gone through a very long process. The refugee becoming, you know, a refugee is not a straightforward, you know, a single form situation. You usually have to go through multiple interviews. You've been in limbo for many, many years. And so all of us, what this kind of memo is, positioning and what the proposal is, is that even after all of that, even after you've finally kind of got that piece of paperwork, your status is still up for question. And this, you know, this is, is a fundamental challenge for how immigration is going to kind of work.

Emma Nelson (24:53)

Let's head to a small Australian town called Parkes, which plays, dare I say it, a sort of rather larger role than perhaps its size would suggest. Firstly, it's quite famous for being at the site of an Elvis festival, but it's not just that it actually is able to take on China in terms of its supply of rare earth minerals.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (25:14)

Not sure Beijing thought they should be worried about a small Australian town hosting one of the largest Elvis Presley festivals.

Emma Nelson (25:19)

Well, they should. They should be now.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (25:21)

Now. Exactly. So this story from the Financial Times is about mining billionaire Robert Friedland, who is backing a massive mine, a massive rare earth mine, scandium. I'm not sure if you know what scandium is, but it's one of those rare earth metals that's kind of key to all the kind of components that are part of, you know, our modern technology. And one of the kind of challenges that the United States has had recently is a lot of rare earths come from China. And China has kind of used rare earth metals, I should say, and use that as leverage in this sort of trade war. And so now, you know, the United States and other countries have been looking at other places in the world where they can start mining for these rare earth metals and parks. Australia is one of those places. So Sunrise Energy Metals, which Robert Friedland is the biggest shareholder of, has raised 30 million last week to start pre construction activities at the mine. And it's one of the first projects to get off the ground in Australia after Washington and Canberra signed a deal in October to increase supplies of rare earths. And so, you know, downstream processing of the mine's output is expected to be to happen in the United States, which is also an interesting choice. The fact that, you know, it might be pulled out of the ground in Australia, but then shipped kind of as raw, raw ore to be processed. That was a bit of a mouthful to be processed in Australia. And so, you know, it'll be, you know, it's interesting to kind of see Australia's. Australia's relationship with mining and fossil fuels is complicated. And the sort of push in the country has been for some time to close mines, especially coal mines and so on. But it's interesting to see that now the opening of rare earth mines, rare earth metal mines, I should say, are increasing or certainly on the up.

Emma Nelson (27:06)

Finally, you wanted to talk to us about something that we can all do on Friday night, you and I. A booking for this Yasmin, aren't we? The return of the rage room.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (27:15)

Indeed, indeed. So demand. Does anyone. Do you know what? Have you ever been to a rage room?

Emma Nelson (27:20)

No, I haven't.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (27:21)

Right.

Emma Nelson (27:21)

Maybe I should.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (27:23)

I was once bought a ticket to a rage room for a birthday. And I don't know what it says about me that somebody did that.

Emma Nelson (27:30)

Excellent friends, right?

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (27:31)

Exactly. So for those who don't Know, a range room. Sorry, a rage room is a room that's full of appliances and old crockery, and you're sort of given a bat, and you're allowed to smash up what you want, right? And you're allowed to sort of throw the plates at the walls, and it's all soundproofed, and you can scream as loud as you want. And this idea emerged in 2008, apparently in Japan. But around the same time, a Chicago entrepreneur started charging people $5 to break things in her garage. But it really went global in the sort of mid 2010s, 2015, 2016, and now it's kind of coming back. And what's interesting is 90% of rage room customers are women, Right?

Emma Nelson (28:11)

What does that say about the fact that we're probably not breaking enough things or we're not angry enough, or we're supposed to be angry? So, okay, you're now going to sort of completely have to talk about how, you know, how. How us human beings are realigning ourselves.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (28:24)

Well, I mean, it is, you know, it's. It's. This piece from the Guardian is saying, there's a question. What's bringing women to rage rooms? Are we getting angrier? And apparently this BBC analysis of Gallup polling data from around the world that showed that women's anger levels are rising over the preceding decade. And so in 2017, they started diverging from men. And in 2021, there was a 6% gender anger gap. And so that's kind of increasing over time. And, you know, it's quite interesting because we often hear stories of, you know, men being angrier and so on, but actually, the rage of women is. Is tipping over.

Emma Nelson (28:59)

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Yasmin Abdel Majeed, thank you so much. You're allowed to tell us what you. Something that you've written is on British television tonight, by the way.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (29:07)

Yes. Okay, folks, Emmerdale, for those who don't know it's the most British. It's a show about a bunch of villagers living in Yorkshire. And my episode, my third episode of Emmerdale is out tonight. So if you're somewhere in the world where you can access itv, please check it out. There may be a scene with Australian accents inside in the show, in the episode.

Emma Nelson (29:29)

There'll be complaints. Yasmin Abdul Majeed, we wish you the very best of luck with your episode.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (29:33)

You.

Emma Nelson (29:33)

Thank. Thank you so much for joining us on the Globalist. Here's a quick look at some of the other stories we're keeping an eye on today. Russia has attacked Kyiv overnight with a wave of missiles and drones. The mayor of the Ukrainian capital said two apartment blocks were hit and power was knocked out in some places. Ukraine has also attacked Russia. The bombardment comes amid diplomatic efforts to end the war. A US Judge has dismissed the case against the former FBI director James Comey and the New York Attorney General Letitia James, who both led high profile investigations into Donald Trump. The judge found the appointment of the prosecutor, Lindsey Halligan, had been unlawful. The U.S. department of Defense has threatened to recall the retired Navy captain and current Democratic Senator Mark Kelly to active duty status in order to prosecute him. President Trump accused Mr. Kelly and other Democratic lawmakers of seditious behavior for urging U.S. troops to refuse illegal orders. And the controversial aid organization, the Gaza Humanitarian foundation has announced it's ending its operations in the territory. The US And Israeli backed aid distributor was heavily criticized after hundreds of Palestinians were killed while collecting food near to its sites. And those are the headlines on the Globalist. Sa.

Rob Cameron (31:23)

Now.

Emma Nelson (31:24)

The Monocle Weekender in Abu Dhabi wrapped up on Sunday after three days spent exploring the fast changing emirate and meeting the inspirational people shaping its future. While there, our head of radio Tom Edwards sat down with Marjan Fariadouni, who's the chief of education at Culture at Expo City Dubai. Once the event space of The World Expo 2020, this site has now been reimagined. It's now an urban district built around sustainability, innovation and community. Well, Tom caught up with Marjan to talk through the evolution and he began by ask asking her how Expo City has developed into the place it is today.

Marjan Faraidouni (32:00)

So Expo City Dubai is the city that hosted the World Expo 2020 that happened in 2021 and it's a continuing city. It has multiple attractions for people to see. One of the most famous is Al Wasl Dome at the center core of it. But it also has spaces for education such as as Terra, which is our sustainability center. And its mission is around educating and inspiring people about environment and questioning their role in helping protect it.

Tom Edwards (32:31)

Well, that is a super interesting process. I think the way that an institution, a city evolves from, you know, like an expo site into a community that has all the complexities and interrelationships of that. As someone who is a fascinated, as an educator, someone interested in the building of culture, that sounds like a really difficult process. Talk to us a little bit about the values that inform that journey and how you and all your colleagues there manage that process. Because it's not just about the Stewardship of an educational program. In a way, there's all these other complicated components. Is that very, very. Presumably it's difficult to do, but how.

Ed Stocker (33:09)

Do you manage that evolution?

Marjan Faraidouni (33:11)

So let's say it's very challenging and it requires is this sense of resilience. And I think what was wonderful about how we manage our city is that it's anchored in a set of values and a vision that, you know, the Expo was a moment of time where we hosted the world for six months, where we had more than 200 countries represented. And today, less than four years later, we have more than 5,000 people representing, working out of the city.

Yasmin Abdel Majeed (33:41)

Right.

Marjan Faraidouni (33:42)

More than 100,000 visitors coming to the different programs that we have in the city. It was a site that hosted COP28. It is a site that this year hosted one of the biggest mayoral summits. On our site, we had the opening ceremony for the International Conference of Museums. So we have continued on our mission to become the site to bring an important cultural events. And it requires a lot of strength and focus in order to do it.

Tom Edwards (34:15)

And how easily do those different components come together in one singular kind of landscape or ecosystem? Because you've got the specific imperatives of sustainability or the environmental urgency that you describe. You've got learning and education. But these cultural components too, those are tricky. Any one is tricky to manage to weave them all together. What's the secret? Is it about the strength and clarity of the senior leadership? I'm sure it's the people who are doing the day to day, but how do you make sure you can bring all those threads together?

Marjan Faraidouni (34:45)

It goes back to the clarity of what it is that you want to achieve. And it's very clear from our perspective and from our leadership's perspective and from the team who are running this specific place called Terum, that we want to get everybody inspired about becoming agents of change in relation to the environment, but also that we want to play a role in identifying innovations and programs that can marry urbanization with respect for nature. And it's a process. It doesn't happen overnight night. And we are very fortunate that we have. We have the foundations and we have strong foundations in the education and awareness components of it. So, for example, Terra is two stories below the ground of an experience of an exhibition with multiple galleries where you get to learn about the wonders of nature. But Terra Era is also about the programs that we have for the school community, the programs that we have for the public to come over the weekends and not only enjoy themselves, but understand things like horticulture why do you have your goats in the public space? And so it is a journey. But really what is important is that you need to have that vision and you need to understand that sometimes you're going to have to pivot depending on your environment and depending on what the priorities are.

Tom Edwards (36:20)

Well, you mentioned new additions, new programs, new pivots. The pace of rollout of these things always astonishes me when I'm in uae. What are some newer initiatives that people should know about? Or can you tell us about some things that's forthcoming that will excite people when they roll around?

Marjan Faraidouni (36:36)

What I'm so excited about this transition that Terra is going to through. It's complementing its exhibitions and its programs of education with what we call impact programs, programs that relate to biodiversity, citizen science. And we have rolled out this year a few of those programs that we hope in the next year or so we see the impact of them. One of them, which I am really excited about is the Hundred Hives Pollinator program, which is really to get 100 hives in 100 schools. There is many reasons for that. To start with, introducing pollinator gardens in cities enhances biodiversity and gets you to care about the environment that you're part of. But it also has this very big education component for the students who are taking care of their pollinator gardens and their schools. But also, also I think more importantly, getting people to think with their hearts and have this empathy towards the creatures that make up our ecosystems. And another one that we have recently also launched is our pocket forest. Pocket forest is really creating a small space of native species of plants where you grow them together and they really promote biodiversity in those areas. And if you have not many pocket forests out there, then you can help with enhancing biodiversity, which in turn can improve the environment that you're part of, whether it's through air quality, water management systems, etc.

Emma Nelson (38:10)

That was Marjan Faraidoune talking to Tom Edwards. You're listening to Monocle Radio Foreign 37 in Oslo. And let's enjoy an update on all the Nordic news. Las Venger is Monocle's Oslo correspondent. Very good morning to you, Lars. How are you?

Lars Bavanger (38:36)

I'm very well today. How are you?

Emma Nelson (38:37)

Good to hear that you are on the radio. Now tell us about what's happening in Norway with tax.

Lars Bavanger (38:43)

Well, Norway is one of the very few countries in the world that actually has a tax on wealth. So not just income tax, but actually a tax on what you own. Now, this has led quite a few millionaires to emigrate Basically flee the tax regime to countries like Switzerland, Monaco, because they argue that this is hurting them too much. And so far this year, it looks like about 150 are going to leave this year. Previous years there have been around 250 every year that have just basically upped and left Norway because they feel it's unfair.

Emma Nelson (39:28)

Now, Norway is one of those rare countries with actually taxes, wealth.

Lars Bavanger (39:33)

Yes, it's quite unusual and we know that other European countries are debating this, whether it might be a fairer way of taxing people. Typically people who are very rich, which don't pay much income tax. Their most of their wealth is in assets. But Norway is one of the few that have actually done it. And this, this is the result. Now, most people in Norway are for this kind of tax. Only three in 10 say they oppose it. Norway is a very equal society and people feel, most people feel that everyone should pay their share there. So there's not that much sympathy for these millionaires who are upping sticks and leaving.

Emma Nelson (40:20)

It is one of those interesting balances though, isn't it? Because those who are going are accusing the Norwegian government of stifling growth.

Lars Bavanger (40:30)

Absolutely. And to a certain extent that there is some truth in this. There have been surveys showing that it is, is a little bit harder to compete with other countries when it comes to setting up new companies. In Norway, startups are struggling a little bit more than in other countries simply because there's not that much venture capital in Norway. Every startup I've spoken to in Norway over the years have said that, yes, we get some initial funding to get off the ground, but then when you really get going and you, you need some serious input of cash, you have to go abroad to find venture capital. So there is, within the business community, there is a little bit of sympathy, maybe not with the millionaires who are fleeing, but with people who argue that maybe the wealth tax should be, if not abolished altogether, but reduced a bit. But I mean, it's very, very few people who actually pay this wealth tax. And for those who do, it does make up quite a lot of Norway's GDP. I think it brings in about 3 billion euros every year. So it's not something the current Labour government is going to want to abandon.

Emma Nelson (41:48)

Speaking of abandoned, a rail crash is never a good thing. However, the story that you are about to tell us is possibly one of the most Nordic train crashes one could imagine.

Lars Bavanger (41:59)

Well, this is, it's a little bit funny, but also quite tragic. We've got every Nordic sort of ingredient here. You've got The Arctic night, you've got a snowstorm, you've got wilderness, you've got reindeer and you've got snowmobiles. So this happened yesterday in northern Norway. A train ran into a flock of reindeer, sadly killing a rat around six of the animals. What happened to the train set was that it lost power. People were stuck inside for about four hours and it was minus 14 degrees centigrade outside, pitch dark, of course, and 1 km to the nearest road. So rescue had to be via snowmobile through the snow. And the reindeer is quite often hit by trains or cars in this part of Norway, which is tragic, of course, for. For the animals themselves, but also the Sami reindeer herders who see that they lose quite a few animals every year. Now, the train operators say that this is not something they can really do something about, because once the reindeer are on the line, it's. It's too late. But there has been criticism from Saami reindeer herders in particular when it comes to clashes between infrastructure and the traditional reindeer herding areas.

Emma Nelson (43:33)

Indeed. I mean, this is the clash of roots, isn't it, that the reindeer will naturally go one way, but the trains are designed to go another.

Lars Bavanger (43:42)

Absolutely. And also on roads there's a problem, especially in winter, because. Because you know how roads in a wintry climate will be gritted, typically with salt. Now, this attracts reindeer. They like to lick salt, just like sheep and other animals. So they will flock to the roads to. To lick the salt to the grit off, off the road. And typically when it is dark and people go quite fast on these remote roads, their accidents will happen. We've also seen clashes between reindeer owners and green infrastructure like wind turbines, which have been impacting their traditional grazing areas. So this is an ongoing challenge for Norwegian reindeer farmers.

Emma Nelson (44:33)

And let us have yet another Nordic, I mean Nordic story with a capital N. Today we have trains, reindeers and skidoos, which is what you just described for us. We now have Santa's getting stuck.

Lars Bavanger (44:47)

Yes, don't cancel Christmas quite yet, but Santa did indeed get stuck. There was the official sort of opening of Christmas down by the harbor in Oslo. Now there's a shiny new big Monk museum there. It's about 60 meters tall. And there's a fairly new tradition. In the past few years, children have been gathering with their families, families to shout for Santa to come. And then Santa does rappel down the front of the Monk building. This year, though, he got stuck, or rather he got his beard stuck in the. The architecture and he was sort of dangling there for about 10 minutes. And to to the shock and horror of the gathered children and, and families. But he did get some help in the end by some fellow climbers. Now this was a professional climber, obviously it's not the real Santa, I hasten to add. So he did get help to get down, but it was a very sort of a bit of a symbol of what could go wrong with Christmas if you don't get your ropes correct and where you don't look after where your beard is when you rappel off a building.

Emma Nelson (46:02)

Well, indeed. I mean, what the inevitable questions need to be asked about had Santa filled in a health and safety form.

Lars Bavanger (46:10)

Well, I don't know whether he's left that to the elves and they've messed it up, but yeah, probably health and safety was paramount for the people who were behind this stunt. But it hasn't deterred Santa. He says he'll be back next year and try again and do better.

Emma Nelson (46:29)

Excellent. He's also got some stuff to do between now and next year. Lars Bavanger Monocles Oslo correspondent thank you. Thank you so much for joining us on the line. You're listening to the globalist.

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Emma Nelson (47:19)

Now the plaza of the King Abdullah financial district will glow in a striking red hue as it hosts red in progress. Salone del Mobili meets Ria Riyadh this week. It's a three day installation marking a significant step towards a much anticipated debut of the full Salone del Mobile Milano in Riyadh, which will happen next year. Well, I'm joined now by Ed Stocker, Monocle's Europe editor at large, who just happens to find himself in Riyadh at the event and can tell us what we're going to be expecting from this. A very good morning to you, Ed.

Ed Stocker (47:49)

Yeah, I just happened to be here. I was just passing by and thought I'd stop in and.

Emma Nelson (47:53)

Most grateful we are. Most grateful we are for that. This is not a full salone, is it? It's, it's a taster.

Ed Stocker (48:00)

It is indeed, yeah. I mean this is a sort of testing of the waters. Although, you know, we already know that this is going to happen. The real deal is going to happen next year. But as you as you teed up so nicely at the Beginning, there are three days of events here. There's a big gala dinner this evening. The Foreign Minister of Italy, who happens to be in town, is also going to be making an appearance. Tajani. And so we're going to get to meet him a little bit later on. And then There are some 38, I believe, Italian brands who are all coming here to show some new products. They're set up, you know, to meet the Saudi market. So they're here, of course, to meet potential buyers and then backing all of that, Emma, there's. There's also lots of cultural programming. So from tomorrow right through till Friday, and this will be open to the public. There's all sorts of talks and masterclasses on things like architecture renewal and reinventing hospitality. So three days of talks in English for people who are curious to learn more about Salon and Del Mobile and be part of a design conversation. Really, Emma.

Emma Nelson (49:18)

And the design conversation will be what? Because the fusion of two worlds of design, the Middle Eastern style and the Italian, more European style is something that lots of people are very interested to see how it'll happen. Happen?

Ed Stocker (49:33)

Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, there is a big delegation here from Solon Del Mobile, as I mentioned those brands before. So it's a big Italian delegation. So obviously from their point of view, this is about talking about Italian lifestyle. So a lot of the talks will, will mention that, but not exclusively media. Porto, who is the president of Solana Del Mobile, is here. I saw her at breakfast this morning. Um, she's going to be talking about shaping the future of design. Milan meets Riyadh. So I guess talking about how these two worlds come together, you know, you know, Vision 2030. Saudi Arabia is on this turbocharged drive to change and it wants to have 150 million visitors by 2030. So that's a huge number. Things are growing, growing. Even though I arrived last night, you can sort of sense that change. There's, there's so much happening here, there's so much new construction about. And so it's a super interesting market for all the growth that is happening and due to happen. And so it seems obvious in a way that Salonid and Mobile would want to be involved. Personally, what I'm looking forward to finding out and from people over the next couple of days is I'm interested on the Saudi perspective, how attitudes towards design are changing. I mean, there's lots of, lots of amazing architecture. Architects are already here from all over the world. You know, Zaha Hadid did a metro station, so did Snohetta there's lots of new buildings going up all the time from international architects. Is that feeding into the population? Are people getting more interested in design? How do they feel about furniture? So it'd be really interesting to sort of talk to Saudis over the next few days and find that out and see how this relationship is going to evolve. Salona del Mobile has done various, various sort of extensions to its fair in the past. It was in Shanghai for a number of years and way before that in New York. But when it, you know, fully establishes itself next year here in Riyadh, it will be the only Salon de Mobile outside of Milan. So that, that's just something really about how they see this place in the future, Emma.

Emma Nelson (51:49)

Indeed. I mean you mentioned this idea of the curiosity between, you know, that, that really exciting moment when design is absolutely taking hold in the likes of Riyadh. And by all accounts at this event in the next couple of days they're going to be what, 38 Italian companies, you know, furniture, lighting, surface, accessories. How Italian do we think it's going to feel?

Ed Stocker (52:10)

Well, I do know that we're going to be eating some Italian food. It's good to know that. I've traveled all the way to, from Milan to Saudi Arabia to also eat Italian food. So I'm looking forward to that. Italians like to eat Italian food outside of Italy. But no part of that of course is, you know, as I said before, this is about Italian lifestyle as well. So you know, we're talking about all facets of that lifestyle which will involve of course talking about Italian food as well. But yeah, you mentioned that there's a, there's a whole load of black brands, you know, many of whom, you know, you would have heard of, Emma, the likes of Giorgetti and Floss and Artemide and even Technogym. So yeah, there's all these well known brands, many of whom are very patron of Frau as well, of course Poliform. So a lot of different well known household name brands. So they're sort of looking to get more established in the study market. So it'll be interesting to see their setup when we go and check it out later today and tomorrow and talk to some of them about their hopes for this market.

Emma Nelson (53:14)

Who else are you looking forward to talking to?

Ed Stocker (53:17)

Well, I'm quite looking forward to talking to the Minister, the Foreign Minister, Tajani. I'm also looking to hopefully speak to the head of the Architecture and Design Commission in Saudi Arabia for some of the reasons I mentioned before, Emma, to sort of hear a little bit about how attitudes towards design are changing. So those I think are some of the highest profile people I'm hoping to speak to. Obviously, I'll be checking in with the president of Salon del Mobile, Maria Poro as well.

Emma Nelson (53:48)

Ed Stocker, Monocle Zero Predator at Large in Riyadh. Thank you so much for joining us on the line. You're listening to the Globalist. Finally, on today's programme, we talk about this week's episode of the Foreign Desk, a bit of a rarity in terms of a subject given the usual rather serious meaty discussions that are normally had. The team have had a bit of fun this week and have looked at how foreign affairs and politics are portrayed in movies and television. I'm joined now in the studio by Anita Riota Monocles, producer of the Phone Desk. Good morning, Anita. Good morning. So why did you suddenly decide to abandon the death and destruction of the usual running order from the Foreign Desk and actually decide to do this?

Anita Riota (54:55)

No, absolutely, you're right. Unfortunately, at the current moment, geopolitics around the world are not really giving us too much respite and sort of positive stories. But to be entirely honest, this episode was born out of I was watching the Diplomat on Netflix, which I have to say I adore. I don't know how much it necessarily is taking into consideration how diplomacy really carries itself out in the world, but that was sort of the idea of, you know, we see so many TV shows and movies about foreign affairs, about diplomacy, about politicians that we know and are famous, but how much of that represents any sort of truth? Are we to learn anything from these programs? You know, how do writers walk into those, into creating these shows? You know, are they consulting with diplomats or former politicians? We just became really curious about how these two work that do take up a lot of the public imagination, politics and entertainment, how do they reflect on one another?

Emma Nelson (56:07)

And indeed, it's often much more interesting to. Politicians are the most risk averse speakers, public speakers on earth. So you're never going to get anything. Well, there was a period of honesty a few million years ago, but nowadays it's just deliver message, get out there, don't get fired. So when you do actually get the opportunity to play around with the human side of political players, how did you go about finding people to talk about this? Cause it's quite niche.

Anita Riota (56:35)

It is. I mean, we're very lucky that we already have an amazing Rolodex of guests on Monocle Radio. We have John Everard, who is a former diplomat. He's been The British ambassador to multiple different posts. So he really could tell us, you know, we start off his interview or Andrew starts off his interview with saying, have you seen any depictions out there in any movies that you said, oh, okay, they got something right. He gave us a one word answer and that word was no.

Emma Nelson (57:06)

No one gets it right.

Marjan Faraidouni (57:07)

No one gets it right.

Emma Nelson (57:08)

Does anyone care?

Anita Riota (57:09)

But he did sort of say, you know, I will say that I have seen depictions that glaze over the more tedious, boring part of this job. Maybe not boring, but tedious and sort of slow moving, which you would like diplomacy and maybe we would like more of these days, a sort of even keeled approach to diplomacy. But he said you. He says that he sees his work as a game of chess and he has seen some shows or some films get at the heart of that sort of more strategic negotiation element and that he has appreciated in depictions.

Emma Nelson (57:50)

Who does it? Well, then.

Anita Riota (57:51)

Oh, well, you're gonna have to listen to the full episode. I can't give away all the best bits.

Emma Nelson (57:55)

And apart from the diplomat, where else are we all being directed to get a decent taste of this? I mean, the two examples that I can think of were Borgen from a long time ago when you had the first female prime minister of Denmar. And I was a big fan of Les Hommes de l', Hombre, which was Spin when they were all. When it was all very juicy French politics.

Anita Riota (58:12)

Well, unfortunately, a TV show that rings truer to reality than satire these days. We had the Emmy award winning writer from Veep, David Quantic, and he told us that, you know, satire, writing satire these days is a bit harder because it strikes too close to reality. He gave some amazing insights. So I think he's a really excellent voice to have have on the show.

Emma Nelson (58:39)

Yes. He said, I think if you're writing about Keir Starmer, you wouldn't accuse him of eating dragons.

Anita Riota (58:43)

Exactly.

Emma Nelson (58:44)

You know, it was. How was it Spitting Image did the thing with. I think the former Prime Minister Sir John Major would had a such a publicly boring Persona. They made him just eat peas and they made him monochrome. Anita Riota, we look forward to hearing that episode of the Foreign Dusk. And thank you for joining us in the studio. And that's all the time we have for today's program. The warmest of thanks to all my guests and to the producers, Anita Riota, Christy o'. Grady. Our research was Joanna Moser and our studio manager was Lily Austin. After the headlines. Lots more music on the way. The briefings live at midday here in London. The globalist is back at the same time tomorrow. But for now, from me, Emma Nelson, Goodbye. Thank you very much for listening.

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