The Asean summit tackles the global energy crisis

Summary

The Globalist – "The ASEAN Summit Tackles the Global Energy Crisis"

Aired May 8, 2026 / Hosted by Georgina Godwin, Monocle Radio

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Episode Overview

This dynamic episode covers the 48th ASEAN Summit in Cebu, where Southeast Asian nations grapple with the impact of the ongoing Middle East conflict on global energy supplies. The summit’s focus: energy security, resilience against external shocks, and greater regional coordination. The show also examines high-profile diplomatic events—including Lula and Trump’s meeting and the Vatican’s political posture under Pope Leo XIV—and surveys other global current affairs.

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Main Segments & Key Insights

1. ASEAN Summit and the Global Energy Crisis

(03:52 – 10:43)

Key Discussion Points:

• ASEAN’s Exposure: Guest Richard Hedarian (academic and columnist) underscores severe vulnerabilities in Southeast Asia, especially the Philippines, due to dependency on Middle Eastern energy and the commercial significance of the Strait of Hormuz.
• Ripple Effects: Filipino workers’ safety in the Middle East is now jeopardized; economic shocks are evident, with Philippine Q1 growth plummeting to just over 2%, blamed on energy volatility.
• Geopolitics Reshaped:
  • US allies like the Philippines are reconsidering ties with China and Russia to secure energy needs.
  • The US is perceived as "too busy" (05:56), per President Marcos, prompting ASEAN to "pull resources together."
• Regional Coordination:
  • Immediate efforts are focused on securing oil (including sanction waivers for Russian imports) and safe passage for tankers.
  • The long-term vision: an ASEAN energy grid for electricity sharing and accelerated green transition, with China poised to play a dominant role in providing tech for renewable energy and electric vehicles.
  • Revival of negotiations over South China Sea’s disputed energy resources, engaging not just China but also Malaysia and Vietnam.

Notable Quote:

"You could see the emphasis on energy security and transition towards green energy and diversification of energy base, really, as a central theme of this year's 48th ASEAN Summit in Cebu."
— Richard Hedarian (03:57)

Memorable Moment:
Discussion of the Philippines negotiating waivers from the US to buy Russian oil highlights desperation for stable energy sources (06:20).

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2. ASEAN’s Other Challenges:

(08:17 – 10:43)

• Thailand-Cambodia Border Flare-Up:
  • Despite US mediation, tensions over a disputed temple persist, stoked by domestic politics and nationalist sentiment.
  • ASEAN is thus juggling Myanmar’s ongoing crisis and its exclusion from the summit (with the Philippines stepping in as host), as well as lingering instability in the South China Sea.

Notable Quote:

"The idea of having multiple conflicts in the region from Myanmar to Thai Cambodia border and then of course you have a still tense situation in South China Sea, that's something untenable for us."
— Richard Hedarian (10:29)

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3. Brazil-US Relations: Lula Meets Trump

(12:09 – 18:42)

Key Discussion Points:

• Diplomatic Reset: Despite past friction, a surprisingly warm rapport emerges between Presidents Trump and Lula, rooted in recent meetings (13:10).
• Organized Crime as Sticking Point: The US wants Brazil to classify domestic criminal groups as terrorist organizations—a proposal originating in Bolsonaro's camp, which holds significant political implications for upcoming Brazilian elections.
• Critical Minerals Diplomacy: US overtures to Brazil about minerals (to reduce reliance on China) loom large, with Lula keen to maximize leverage for better trade terms and lower tariffs.
• Political Optics: The lack of drama in talks and Trump’s cordial stance are victories for Lula, especially as food exports to the US benefit from low tariffs amidst inflationary pressures.

Notable Quote:

"Rapprochement is the word of the day, and this meeting seems to reinforce that."
— Antonio Sampao (13:01)

Memorable Moment:
Trump did not blame Brazil for US food inflation, which experts interpret as an intentional positive signal by the administration (17:17).

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4. Middle East Tensions and the Global Supply Chain

(20:08 – 26:55)

Key Discussion Points:

• US-Iran Escalation in Hormuz: Carlotta Rebella (from Lisbon) reports on the latest exchange of fire and shifting alliances; US military access in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait restored, and the Azores’ strategic US base is being upgraded.
• Hantavirus Cruise Outbreak: Spain braces for arrival of the quarantined cruise ship Hondius; logistics of repatriation and disease control discussed, but experts stress little COVID-like risk.

Notable Quote:

"[Trump] described it as simply a love tap."
— Carlotta Rebella, on US-Iranian naval clash (20:59)

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5. Technology & Urban Mobility

(27:01 – 28:58)

• Air Taxis in New York: La Repubblica covers the debut of electric air taxis between JFK and Manhattan heliports, reflecting global competition in futuristic urban transit.

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6. Vatican-US Relations & Pope Leo XIV’s First Year

(31:13 – 37:54)

Key Discussion Points:

• A Global Pope: Juliet Lindley profiles Leo XIV, a Chicago-born, multi-ethnic, multilingual pontiff, emphasizing his independence from Washington and his unifying influence on US Catholics.
• Political Tensions: Trump’s frequent attacks on the Pope (even with AI-generated images) have alienated many Catholics and could affect electoral dynamics.
• Vatican’s Leverage: The Holy See, immune from US political pressure, benefits from its soft power—demonstrated by Secretary of State Rubio's visit to mend fences.

Notable Quote:

"We have a Pope who's proven to be anything but in Washington's pocket."
— Juliet Lindley (31:49)

Memorable Moment:
Discussion of Trump's erratic attacks on Pope Leo—“putting words in his mouth that are absolutely not true… saying the Pope is in favor of a nuclear Iran”—shows the bizarre and fraught relationship (34:21).

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7. Weekly Satirical Recap: “What We Learned” with Andrew Muller

(38:48 – 43:53)

• News Oddities: Includes the story of an Englishman’s wild stunt, satirical musings on Trump’s cognitive tests, and the revelation that a French academic invented an award (Gold Medal of Philology) to enhance his credentials.
• Tone: Light, irreverent, tongue-in-cheek commentary throughout.

Notable Quote:

"For we learned that the feat of setting oneself alight and towing a police car down the street with a rope attached to one's genitals...had been accomplished by one John Stephenson of the West Yorkshire settlement of Halifax."
— Andrew Muller (39:00)

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8. Africa News Roundup with Phil Clark

(47:04 – 54:16)

Key Headlines:

• South Africa: President Ramaphosa faces a critical impeachment decision amid a cash scandal.
• Eswatini: The only African state recognizing Taiwan faces economic retaliation from China; Taiwanese President’s visit causes regional drama.
• Rwanda: French courts reopen the genocide case against former President Habyarimana’s wife, potentially shifting decades-old impunity.
• Mali: Conflict chaos, with Al-Qaeda-linked militants attacking fruit sellers amid broader instability.

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9. The Curious Case of the Fake Academic Award

(54:54 – 58:45)

• Story: French Prof. Florent Montaclair invents the Gold Medal of Philology, awards it to himself, and fools much of academia for years before investigative journalists expose the hoax.
• Reflections: Laura Kramer humorously notes the lengths Montaclair went—including fake organizations and websites—mocking academic vanity.

Notable Quote:

"It's a field that runs very heavily on reputation and symbolism... so if a new one comes along, they're absolutely super happy to come on."
— Laura Kramer (56:15)

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Additional Memorable Quotes

• On Trump’s Approach to Global Conflict:

  “The US is just too busy. Basically, the US doesn't care about us. I mean, that's his [Marcos’] subtle way of saying it.”
  — Richard Hedarian (05:54)

• On Hantavirus Outbreak:

  “The way this virus is transmitted has nothing to do with coronavirus... human to human transmission is extremely rare.”
  — Carlotta Rebella (25:45)

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Important Timestamps Index

• ASEAN Summit/Energy Crisis: 03:52 – 10:43
• Brazil-US Relations: 12:09 – 18:42
• US-Iran/Hormuz Tensions: 20:08 – 22:19
• Azores/US Military: 22:28 – 24:10
• Hantavirus Outbreak: 24:20 – 26:55
• Air Taxis: 27:01 – 28:58
• Vatican Analysis: 31:13 – 37:54
• Weekly Satire: 38:48 – 43:53
• Africa Roundup: 47:04 – 54:16
• Fake Academic Award: 54:54 – 58:45

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Summary

This episode demonstrates The Globalist’s signature blend: in-depth analysis of urgent geopolitical issues (focusing on Southeast Asia’s energy crisis), sharp international diplomacy debriefs (US-Brazil, Vatican-US), witty cultural observations, and rigorous world news coverage. Through expert guests and lively banter, listeners gain clarity on how regional events ripple across the global system.

Original tone preserved: Insightful yet conversational, with moments of irreverence, curiosity, and journalistic savvy.

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Transcript

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[Georgina Godwin]

You're listening to the Globalist, first broadcast on 8 May 2026 on Monocle Radio. The Globalist in association with U.

[Carlotta Rebella]

Hello,

[Georgina Godwin]

this is the Globalist broadcasting to you live from Midori House in London. I'm Georgina Godwin. On the show ahead, I will lead

[Antonio Sampao]

discussions on how the region can bolster

[Juliet Lindley]

regional preparedness, ensure stable energy supply and accelerate energy diversification to reduce vulnerability to external shocks.

[Georgina Godwin]

That's President Marcos of the Philippines. At the ASEAN Summit we'll have more on how conflict in the Middle east is affecting Southeast Asian nations. The leaders of Brazil and the US have been meeting in Washington. We'll hear what happened when Lula met Trump. And as the US Secretary of State concludes a visit to the Vatican, we'll have a readout of how Leo XIV has been coping since his elevation to the Papacy. Plus, brace yourself.

[Andrew Muller]

We learned that the feat of setting oneself alight and towing a police car down the street with a rope attached to one's genitals had been accomplished by one John Stephenson of the West Yorkshire settlement of Halifax.

[Georgina Godwin]

Ouch. Andrew Muller will share that and other insights on the last seven days. We'll rustle through the front pages and have a roundup of news from Africa. That's all ahead here on the Globalist. Live from London. First, a look at what else is happening in the news. The US and Iran have exchanged fresh fire around the Strait of Hormuz while the United Arab Emirates says it intercepted missiles and drones. In the latest test of the fragile month old ceasefire, millions of voters across Britain have cast ballots in local and regional elections that could deepen pressure on Prime Minister Keir Starmer and accelerate the fragmentation of the country's traditional two party system. And health authorities around the world are tracing passengers from a cruise ship outbreak of Hantavirus that's left three people dead and prompted monitoring measures across Europe, North America and Asia. Do stay tuned to Monocle Radio throughout the day for more on those stories. Now. The association of Southeast Asian nations or ASEAN Summit in Cebu has been overtaken by the fallout from the Middle east war with concern over fuel supplies, food prices and shipping through the Strait of Hormuz now dominating the agenda. Leaders are also trying to show ASEAN can manage crises closer to home, from the Thailand Cambodia ceasefire to Myanmar's refusal to open access to Ang San Chu Chi. Well, we're joined now by Richard Hedarian, who's an academic and a columnist for the Philippine Daily Inquirer. Richard, it's always good to have you with us. How exposed are ASEAN economies to disruption from Hormuz?

[Richard Hedarian]

Absolutely. I think this meeting is very important, and President Marcos couldn't have had it earlier. You could see the emphasis on energy security and transition towards green energy and diversification of energy base, really, as a central theme of this year's 48th ASEAN Summit in Cebu. There'll be another major summit, of course, among the leaders, together with world leaders, potentially Trump and Xi Jinping. Other leaders will also join later in November in Manila. But in this meeting, I think the Philippines is really trying to see how can Southeast Asian countries and their international partners, including Britain, including Europe, can work together to deal with the fallout of the crisis in Iran. Because without a question, Southeast Asian nations, and I would say particularly the Philippines, are among the worst affected nations. By Iran war, I mean, few people talk about it, but there are millions of Filipinos actually working directly in the Middle East. I just passed by the Emirates on my flight from the UK to Manila the other month, and a lot of Filipinos are working in those airports. And I was talking to a lot of folks and I was hearing how horrible the situation is in terms of employment, in terms of direct security, with some drones even hitting the airport there in the Emirates. And then, of course, directly the Philippine economy. If you look at the Philippine economy, it just grew over 2% in the first quarter of this year. We're talking about a country which has been one of the fastest growing in the world, growing between 5 to 7% over the past three or four years and now growing at just over 2%. And the energy shock is definitely one of the reasons why the Philippines is suffering so badly and the situation is so atrocious, at least for the Filipinos, that President Marcos Jr. In an interview earlier this year with Bloomberg Magazine, openly said that countries who are US Allies like the Philippines will have to restructure their relationship with China with other powers, including with Russia, because they have to deal with a desperate energy condition. During a meeting with a visiting Japanese official also the other day, President Marcos said that the US Is just too busy. Basically, the US doesn't care about us. I mean, that's his subtle way of saying it, and that's why we have to pull our resources together. So I think the Philippines is really well positioned and has a sense of urgency to steer the region towards the greater energy security, both in the short and long run.

[Georgina Godwin]

How so? Are we talking about greater energy coordination then between ASEAN nations?

[Richard Hedarian]

I mean, absolutely, on the one hand, everyone's just scrambling for as much oil as they can get. You know, the Philippines has been one of the few countries in the region, along with Japan, South Korea, who have basically cut off any major economic relationship with Russia, for instance, because of the invasion of Ukraine. And yet now the Philippines has been begging the Americans for waivers of, of sanctions so that they can purchase oil from Russia. It is directly coordinating actually with Iran in terms of passage of its tankers and safety of its seafarers. One third of the world's seafarers are Filipinos to pass through Hormuz. But obviously that's just going to be the short term plugin, essentially quote, unquote solution. But over the long run, absolutely. An ASEAN grid whereby regional states can share, you know, electricity, excess electricity together is something that has been discussed for years, but now with the worst energy shock of our recent memory, I think the sense of urgency is absolutely there. But also move towards green energy and green technology and EV vehicles. And I think this is where China will have a lot of advantage. So if the Russians are taking advantage of the desperation for barrels of oil, the Chinese are very well positioned to help Southeast Asian countries in terms of transitioning to electric vehicles, in terms of transitioning to renewable energies, where China is extremely strong. But obviously, as in countries like the Philippines are also going to try to get help from Europe, from every country they can get, including Japan and South Korea. And of course, there are going to be also other efforts at developing our own resources. In Southeast Asia in particular, we have a lot of disputed resources, energy resources in the South China Sea. Obviously, we'll have to talk to China about that. President Marco suggested that the Philippines might renew negotiations with China over some of the disputed energy resources. But we also have overlapping claims with Malaysia, with Vietnam. So there are going to be also discussions about offshore drilling of oil and gas resources, including in contested areas in the South China Sea.

[Georgina Godwin]

Let's go back to the meeting and what's been discussed. Can you tell us about the Thai and Cambodian leaders meeting on the sidelines? Of course, as we know, they had all these deadly border clashes.

[Richard Hedarian]

Well, I mean, President Trump in all his wisdom was supposed to have solved this, right? I think this was one of the seven major conflicts that he had supposedly solved last year. And yet we see that just like almost everything, all of the supposed peace agreements that the President, the US President has mentioned, this one is also not holding very well. So this is something that has been going on since at least 2010, 2011, this border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia over a historically sensitive site where there's a temple there that both sides claim based on their history and culture and civilization. For a long time we were able to put this conflict under the lead. In fact, when Indonesia was the ASEAN chair 15 years ago, it very successfully pushed the two countries to basically manage their dispute through international courts. But in the past two or three years, we see again the explosion of tensions between the two countries over their borders. And clearly domestic politics is playing into this. I mean, Thailand has a very volatile domestic politics. There's a lot of pressure on their political leaders to show toughness on the border disputes. And last year, of course, the former Thaksin administration created a lot of backlash when it suggested that it will try to find kind of a detente with Cambodia. And then when the backlash happened, essentially there was pressure on everyone else, all the succeeding administrations, to actually take a tough stance. So now ASEAN has a very, a lot on its, on its plate because it's trying to push for more as an involvement in pushing for peace in Myanmar. For instance, again, Aung San SUU will be at the center hopefully of bringing the country back into fold this year. ASEAN actually was supposed to be hosted by Myanmar, but the Philippines to replace that because of the situation in Myanmar. And then you have this Thailand, Cambodia border issue, which is very, very troubling because Thailand of course is one of the founding members of asean. Cambodia is one of the most dynamic countries. And the idea of having multiple conflicts in the region from Myanmar to Thai Cambodia border and then of course you have a steel tense situation in South China Sea. That's something untenable for us.

[Georgina Godwin]

Richard, thank you very much indeed. That's Richard Hederian, who's an academic and a columnist for the Philippine daily Inquirer. This is is the Globalist. It's 7:10 here in London. That's 3:10am in Brasilia. Brazilian President Luis Ignacio Lula da Silva has met Donald Trump in Washington. After a bruising year of tariff threats, rows over Jair Bolsonaro and tensions over organized crime, critical minerals, trade and security were all on the agenda as Washington looks to reduce dependence on China and Brazil tries to avoid becoming simply a supplier of raw materials. Well I'm delighted to say I'm joined in the studio by Antonio Power, who's a Latin American security expert. Antonio, we're normally on the phone with each other, so it's great to have you in front of me. Welcome. Welcome. How would you characterize the state of the relationship between Lula and Trump?

[Antonio Sampao]

So the state of the relationship seems to be surprisingly good. Surprisingly. In positive terms. It started with the UN General assembly in September last year when Trump and Lula had a big, very brief meeting and apparently was very friendly. Up until that point, obviously, Trump had intervened in internal affairs of the US Via social media, et cetera, calling for the amnesty and release of the former president, Jair Bolsonaro, who is a right wing politician. Very, very cozy and friendly to Trump. But since then, Trump seems to have decided to take a more pragmatic approach towards its second largest country in the Western hemisphere and focus on rapprochement. So I think rapprochement is the word of the day, and this meeting seems to reinforce that.

[Georgina Godwin]

So Lula basically got the reset in relations that he was looking for.

[Antonio Sampao]

It seems like he's getting that. But there's a catch. There is an important roadblock to be crossed, which is called organized crime, because the Trump administration once is taking a very hard stance on drug trafficking and organized crime in Latin America. And he has attempted to talk to the Brazilians about classifying two very large criminal groups in Brazil as terrorist organizations. It seems that that idea came from the Bolsonaro family. One of the Bolsonaro sons is very friendly with top US Officials of the Trump administration. And if that happens, there is a widespread perception in Brazilian media and analysts that that would be a point in favor of the Bolsonaro family and the right wing in Brazil. And Brazil has presidential elections later this year, so that would be a major thing. So a lot of the Brazilian observers were observing whether the meeting would result because Lula wanted to announce or wanted to work towards security cooperation with the U.S. if Lula could say, oh, me and Trump, we are such good buddies that we are having working group or a cooperation security against organized crime. So that would take out some of the Bolsonaro's sort of pro security. We are tougher on the organized crime narrative. That hasn't happened yet, in part because the meeting was surprisingly dull, which is great news for Lula. And Lula has said that he has proposed a working group to work with the Americans on organized crime and cooperation, intelligence cooperation, just like he said, there is a working group on trade, but because there hasn't been a press conference which was scheduled originally. We don't know exactly what was discussed.

[Georgina Godwin]

Right, right. But I'm presuming that critical minerals were central to the discussion.

[Antonio Sampao]

Exactly. Critical minerals, I think, is the background to all of this, because I think, I suspect that it has a very strong role to play in why Trump is being so friendly to Lula. Because Brazil is one of the largesthas, one of the largest reserves of critical minerals anywhere in the world. And China has, you know, minerals in its bargaining chip against the US in trade disputes. And the most logical place for the US to look is Brazil. But again, we don't know exactly what was discussed in the meeting. Lula just said that the US Is free to trade with Brazil on that, and as is China and France and the UK and many other countries. He said that. So Brazil clearly has that card in its sleeve in terms of its probably the strongest card that Lula has in the conversations with Trump.

[Georgina Godwin]

What does he want in return? What does Brazil get out of closer cooperation with Washington?

[Antonio Sampao]

Well, I think that after the military operation in Venezuela, which seems odd to say, but it was just a few months ago, it feels like it was years ago, but I think Brazil wants to keep the US to return to a state in which Brazil and US had friendly, very stable relations between two democracies in the Western Hemisphere. And then there is the issue of tariffs, trade tariffs that is on everyone's minds and keeping a close relation and maybe using the rare earth minerals as a trump card, Lula can keep tariffs down and favor a friendly relationship.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yeah. So politically, who do you feel comes out stronger?

[Antonio Sampao]

Well, I think that in terms of who got more, in terms of what is helpful politically in the future, I think Lula got just the fact that Trump had nice things to say about him. As I said, the meeting was surprisingly dull. I think that is a win for Lula. I think if you think of the broader picture for the American people, it's great because Brazil is a big exporter of meat, many other food, and coffee to the US So lowering tariffs on Brazil, despite what Trump may say, is actually great news for the Americans in terms of food inflation. But in terms of politically, Trump seems to not have played on the. Brazil is exploiting Americans in terms of its food prices because food prices are high in the U.S. so there was a fear that Trump would blame Brazil and try to cast Lula as, oh, you're selling us on bad conditions, and that's why prices are going up. He didn't do that. So I think that for Lula, the meeting was way, way better, was towards the best end of the spectrum.

[Georgina Godwin]

Excellent, Antonio, thank you very much indeed. That's Antonio Sampao, Latin American security expert. Now still to come on the program, we'll head to our studio in Zurich for a story stranger than fiction. Laura Kramer is there to tell us more.

[Laura Kramer]

Hydrogena. It's a great Friday story. A French professor appears to have invented a prestigious academic prize, awarded it to himself and then convinced some of Europe's top intellectual circles that it was real.

[Georgina Godwin]

Extraordinary stuff, Laura. We'll get back to you on that for the detail. This is the globalist.

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[Georgina Godwin]

Well, let's continue now with today's newspapers and joining me from Lisbon is Carlota Rebella, Monocle's senior foreign correspondent. Good morning to you, Carlotta.

[Carlotta Rebella]

Good morning, Georgina.

[Georgina Godwin]

Now, as we've been reporting in our headlines, the US And Iran have clashed in the Strait of Hormuz, although Donald Trump insists that the ceasefire is still in place. Now this has been covered over many of the world's front. Tell us some more of those details.

[Carlotta Rebella]

Yes, it's been the story that's all over the front pages both here in Portugal and the international press. And I thought we'd take a look at the FT's coverage of it this morning. As you've said, reports that the US And Iran exchanged fire in the Strait of Hormuz overnight. But yes, US President Donald Trump continues to insist that this doesn't mean that the ceasefire is not not being held. He says that the ceasefire is still in effect and described it as simply a love tap.

[Georgina Godwin]

A love tap. How extraordinary. Does the paper have a view on this?

[Carlotta Rebella]

The FT is just really explaining what happened. And what's interesting here of significance is the fact that for the first time it's being reported that the US hit command centers of Iran. Now Iran is saying that they retaliate and that despite Trump claiming that the American strikes were an act of self defense following unprovoked Iranian attacks, this is the reason that the Pentagon said for the launch of the missiles and the drones that happened overnight. Now what's interesting as well to note Is that also overnight we heard from Saudi Arabia and from Kuwait that they lifted the sanctions, let's say, that were in place, that prohibited the US from using the military bases it had in the region. You might remember this was a move that they made at the start of this conflict to try to kind of separate themselves from the US's stance on all of it. And overnight it's being reported this in this time by the Wall Street Journal, that the US is now allowed once again to operate and use its bases in the region too.

[Georgina Godwin]

Right. So there's a related story here about the US reinforcing its military presence in the Azores.

[Carlotta Rebella]

Yes. So you might remember, Georgina, at the start of this conflict, Portugal was a bit in troubled waters over the large's air base. This is an air base in one of the islands in the Azores that the US has had for several decades a military base there. And as you can imagine, it's a strategic point across in the middle of the Atlantic for refueling, for troop positioning, etc. And when the conflict with Iran began, American jets were using it to refuel. And at the time it even caused Iran to call the Portuguese ambassador to ask for Portugal's stance in the region. And Portugal has said that of course they can't control what the US does with its own military bases. Now this morning it's all over the Portuguese press, including Publico, and the story here is that the US has announced that it is going to reinforce the military presence. It has there a big investment. They refurbished some of the barracks to accommodate a bigger number of troops. And this is because the Azores is being seen more and more as a strategic location for the US in the middle of the Atlantic. And it could of course, this reinforcement affect the relations that Portugal has with other nations. The imminent arrival of 80 more U.S. troops, and also the news of a permanent installation of 4P8 Poseidon Maritime Patrol aircraft. So it's, it's, it's a big change.

[Georgina Godwin]

Absolutely. Let's, let's cross to Spain now and have a look at what El Pais is saying on the logistical challenge around these Hantavirus people on the ship.

[Carlotta Rebella]

Absolutely. And I thought this was quite an interesting side of the story that we haven't heard that much, of course, all over the international press, but as you can imagine over here in the Iberian Peninsula, with the ship about to more in Tenerife, in the Canary Islands in Spain, it's been all over the news, what's the future of the Hondius vessel? But El Pais this morning has A take on the logistical challenge and all the behind the scenes negotiations that the Spanish government has had to engage in in order to get this ship to not necessarily dock, because it's not going to go to port, is going to more in water and then people will be transported in smaller boats. But it involves 22 different nations in order to know how to repatriate all of the different nationals that are on board of the ship. Now, this, as you know, has raised a lot of concerns about health care and there's a lot of other processes regarding the mandatory quarantines for the people on board of the ship, including the crew. And also how do you go ahead and proceed with disinfecting the vessel so that it can continue to operate as normal?

[Georgina Godwin]

Yes, absolutely. And then we're also hearing statements that people should not be concerned that this is anything like coronavirus.

[Carlotta Rebella]

Yes. And that's something that infectious disease experts have been quite adamant on and also quite in tune as well, saying that the way this virus is transmitted has nothing to do with do with coronavirus, particularly because with hantavirus, first human to human contact is extremely rare, human to human transmission is extremely rare, but also because the virus is transmitted when you're already presenting symptoms. As you might remember with COVID one of the biggest challenges in containing the virus is that you would be able to transmit the virus without knowing yourself that you were infected. So that led to a much higher degree of difficulty in containing it. Now, that doesn't seem to be the case here. And infectious disease experts are adamant that there's no need to worry, including the WHO as well. But here, just to get a sense of the scale of the effort to try to get these passengers to return home safely so that they don't infect people on the way home. It's quite an astonishing logistical feat, I'm quite sure.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yeah. Now, let's talk about air taxis. This is terrifying.

[Carlotta Rebella]

Is it terrifying or is it. Is it great? I actually wanted to know your take on it. It depends how you feel about heights and helicopters, I guess.

[Georgina Godwin]

I mean, it's not the safest, is it?

[Carlotta Rebella]

Well, I'm with you. I'm with you on that. Now, this is a story that despite being in New York City, it was picked up by La Republica newspaper in Italy this morning. And it is the. The first images that we are seeing of the air taxi tests in New York. You might remember, this is a program that was announced by the Federal Aviation Administration a few years ago and then officially last year that it was going to go ahead. And we see this quite incredible image of a takeoff from JFK airport and then traveling all the way to one of the city's heliports. And this is a, an electric vehicle. And you know, you know that this idea of air taxis might sound a bit like the future, but in places such as Dubai or even in Shanghai and other Chinese cities, it's not really a distant future. So this is really New York trying to compete with those markets and showing another way to transport people for short trips across the city and, you know, a way to avoid traffic. If you're flying over it, you're not in it.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yeah. I mean, I suppose that the sort of upside on this is at least not yet they're not autonomous. There are actually pilots in them.

[Carlotta Rebella]

Well, yes, but there will be tests at some point with autonomous ones, too. But this one that La Republic is picking up on is still a manned aircraft. So there's, there is some safety in there. Now, what this would lead to is eventually you just be able to open your phone and your usual ride sharing app. You could choose if you want the economy car, if you want a premium car, if you want a bike, or if you want an air taxi.

[Georgina Godwin]

Carlotta, thank you very much indeed. That's Carlotta Rebelo, Monocle's senior foreign correspondent, speaking to us from Lisbon. You're with the Globalist on Monocle Radio. Now here's what else we're keeping an eye on today. The U.S. and Iran exchanged fire around the Strait of Hormuz overnight, while the United Arab Emirates said its air defenses intercepted missile and drone threats aimed at the Gulf state. President Donald Trump said US destroyers had come under attack near the strategic waterway, though Washington insisted the ceasefire with Tehran remained in place as oil prices climbed above $100 a barrel. Millions of British voters headed to the polls yesterday in local and regional elections that are expected to deliver heavy losses for both Labour and the Conservatives and strengthen the position of populist and nationalist parties. Pressure is mounting on Prime Minister Keir Starmer after a turbulent year dominated by economic concerns, internal party unrest and continuing fallout over the appointment and later dismissal of Peter Mandelson. And countries around the world are tracing cruise ship passengers and close contacts after a hantavirus outbreak aboard the MV Hondius killed three people and triggered health alerts across multiple continents. The World Health Organization says the risk to the wider public remains low, stressing that the virus is very different from COVID despite rare cases of human to human transmission. This is the Globalist. Stay tuned. It is 8:30 in the Vatican, 7:30 here in London. US Secretary of State Marco Rubio has been at the Vatican attempting to mend the relationship between Washington and the Pope. A year ago, the little known cardinal as he was then, would not have expected to be the focus of all this high level political attention from US politicians. But it's been quite the first year for the new pontiff. Juliet Lindley, journalist and former Vatican correspondent, joins us now from our Zurich studio. Good morning to you, Juliet.

[Juliet Lindley]

Good morning, Georgina.

[Georgina Godwin]

Juliet, what do you think Pope Leo's global worldview has meant for the Catholic Church?

[Juliet Lindley]

You know, amongst the multitude of insults that have been hurled at the Pontiff by Donald Trump over the last year, that was one of them, was that without him, Leo wouldn't have become Pope. Now, leaving aside Robert Prevost multitude of assets for the job, I mean, it's true that the time was ripe to finally have a pontiff with an American passport, especially given the geopolitical turbulence that had been sparked by Trump himself. But Georgina, it was the multilingual, multiracial, even and multi passport side of this Chicago born cardinal that actually made him the ideal, if unexpected conclave candidate. More than his just Americanism if you want. So until last year, we had never had a Pope from the US because of the essence of his status as a superpower. So to combine that with spiritual supremacy would have been seen as a no go. But now with Leo, we have a Pope who's proven to be anything but in Washington's pocket if you want. And he's lived abroad longer than he's lived in the US and his worldview is just so global in so many ways. And he's advocating for promoting peace and dialogue. He's advocating against poverty, for climate change, against climate change, immigration, protecting the marginalized. And those are all issues that clash quite profoundly with the Trump administration's priorities. In so many ways.

[Georgina Godwin]

As you say, of course, he is the first American Pope. So what impact has his papacy had on US Catholics?

[Juliet Lindley]

So when his name was announced from the Lodge of St. Peter's Basilica a year ago, everyone was caught by surprise. And especially the Americans themselves had never dreamt or dared to dream of having a U.S. pope. But now, as our listeners are no doubt aware, American Catholics until then they were quite radically split between the conservative right leaning ones who strongly disliked his predecessor, Pope Francis, and the Catholics, for instance, from his hometown in Chicago, who many of them voted Democrats. So what Lewin this year has managed to do, he has brought those two sides together. He's made US Catholics less polarized. He's been a great unifier. And by the way, he's also about unifying people around the world. I mean, that's another story, but about promoting inter religious dialogue. And he's already gone to like Turkey and Lebanon and also Algeria with calls for, for dialogue between Muslims. So I think the latest results show that 80% of Catholics have a favorable view of Pope Leo and Catholic Republicans rate him much better than they rated Pope Francis. And just for some background, historically Catholics have been split in their votes, sort of 50, 50 between Republicans and Democrats, but as of 2016, they've been increasingly voting Republican.

[Georgina Godwin]

So I mean, can we absolutely measure how much Trump's attacks on the Pope have affected the President' popularity amongst, amongst the Pope's followers amongst US Catholics? And if that is sort of changing hearts and minds?

[Juliet Lindley]

Well, in a sizable way his attacks have affected his popularity. I mean, Trump has gone after Leo in such an erratic way, saying things that are, I mean, saying that he's a terrible person, that he's soft on crime, but also putting words in his mouth that are absolutely not true. Saying that the Pope is in favor of a nuclear Iran is just so against the Papacy in general because ever since 1945, all the popes have spoken out against nuclear weapons and in favor of peace. So what Trump also did was then post AI generated images of himself as Jesus and then even before the conclave of himself as the Pope. So I'm guessing he hasn't lost all of Catholic American voters. But I'm kind of sure that Mr. Rubo is going to be going back to the White House now and talking to Trump and tell him he's just got to stop picking on the Pope if for no other reason. As we all know, the midterms are right around the corner and even amongst the most die hard MAGA Catholics. Fine. The Pope's stance on immigration and his criticism of the Trump administration's clampdown. Okay, but you can't have Trump blasphemizing and you can't attack the Pope's holiness. Georgina.

[Georgina Godwin]

I mean, it just does seem odd when you look back at the visit by Vice President J.D. vance to the Vatican and how much that was trumpeted. Vance, apparently he's a pretty recent convert to Catholicism that this should happen. And then Trump lay into the Pope so vociferously, for sure.

[Juliet Lindley]

And I mean, Rubio is a different kind of Catholic. Vance is very, very extreme if you want. He only converted six years ago. Rubio sort of comes from a Catholic family from Latin America. And you've got to guess that Trump is really going to. To dial down his erratic attacks. But as we know, it's kind of hard to predict what Donald Trump might do. But certainly he should be leveraging the fact that his Secretary of State is a Latino, as is the Pope. The Pope has Peruvian background. He lived in Peru for many years. So you'd hope that he would leverage that, Georgina.

[Georgina Godwin]

I mean, I suppose that the Vatican's got nothing to lose here in that they need nothing from America. They don't. Tariffs is not a problem. It doesn't face political pressure. And so they've got the upper hand here.

[Juliet Lindley]

Well, that's the thing. On the COVID of so many newspapers this morning, we had this photo of Pope Leo and Marco Rubio, and Leo looking serene. He's so much a keep calm and carry on kind of person, isn't he? He has been over these last months, in the wake of all these criticisms he's faced. Rubio looking a little more tense. But this is so much about. It says so much about the Holy See's soft power, but it is something to be reckoned with. The US Secretary of State got on a plane and went to Rome because of what was happening, because of the rift that his boss had created with the Catholic Church. And it's not to be underestimated. The Pope's power is something to be taken seriously. And I think these very days that Rubio is in Rome show that.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yeah. And just to go back to the beginning of the row, was this really sparked by his tour of Africa, where he decried violations of international law by, as he called them, neo colonial global powers? And he said the world was being ravaged by a handful of tyrants. But he later slightly rode back on that, didn't he?

[Juliet Lindley]

Well, your quotes from him, his speeches in Africa are very correct, but it was right before he left for Africa that the Pope had been saying to his Catholic followers that they should really contact their. The people in power in the United States and let them know that constituents are not happy with Trump's stance and with the Trump administration's warmongering. He didn't use direct words to pinpoint Trump, but it was very clear that that's what he was saying.

[Georgina Godwin]

Juliet, thank you very much indeed. That's Juliet Lindley, journalist and former Vatican correspondent, speaking to us from our Zurich studio. This is Monocle Radio. Now it's time for our usual Friday look back at the last seven days with Andrew Muller.

[Richard Hedarian]

I am the God of Hell fire.

[Antonio Sampao]

And I bring you fire.

[Andrew Muller]

We learned this week of disappointing tidings for any listeners who harbored dreams of becoming the first person in the history of human endeavor to set themselves alight and then tow a police car down the street with a rope attached to their genitals. For we learned that it had been done. But we learned that, for example, the glass ceiling remains uncracked where, I dunno, carrying a harpsichord up a spiral staircase while wearing trousers full of live crabs is concerned. So you've got that to work towards. Just as the producers now find themselves trying to evoke in sound the proposition of someone carrying a harpsichord up a spiral staircase while wearing trousers full of live crabs. Can there also be a goose for some reason? Anyway, yes, we learned that the feat of setting oneself alight and towing a police car down the street with a rope attached to one's genitals. Verily, the four minute mile of the 21st century had been accomplished by one John Stephenson of the West Yorkshire settlement of Halifax. We go now live to some underwhelming Verite audio. Get him out.

[Carlotta Rebella]

Oh my God, it's gonna go out again.

[Andrew Muller]

Imagine what fun our skillful and dedicated producers could have had with the same premise. But we learned that Mr. Stevenson was not alone in performing bizarre, dangerous and undignified contortions to the bafflement of all sane onlookers, or indeed, in playing, in one respect or another with fire. We learned that the United States war with Iran was over. The Operation Epic Fury is concluded.

[Richard Hedarian]

We achieved the objectives of that operation.

[Andrew Muller]

Unless it wasn't.

[Unknown Male Speaker 1]

Then we have to get what we have to get. If we don't do that, we'll have to go a big step further.

[Andrew Muller]

Or so sort of is and or isn't. Since the ceasefire was announced, Iran has fired at commercial vessels nine times and seized two container ships. And they've attacked U.S. forces more than 10 times, all below the threshold of. Of restarting major combat operations at this point. And indeed, that the conflict may or may not be being waged or the peace may or may not be being kept by kamikaze. I can't confirm or deny whether we have kamikaze dolphins, but I can confirm they don't, for all intents and porpoises.

[Georgina Godwin]

Boo.

[Andrew Muller]

But one thing we did learn for sure, and a tremendous reassurance it was at a moment of global volatility, peril and general brouhaha, was that Earth's most powerful individual, the man endowed by the wisdom of the American voter with the authority to extinguish civilization at whim. Absolutely can tell, and with unwavering reliability, the difference between lions, bears, alligators and squirrels.

[Unknown Male Speaker 1]

You know, the first question is very easy and they always show. The first question is, you have a lion, a bear, an alligator and a.

[Richard Hedarian]

What's another good.

[Unknown Male Speaker 1]

A squirrel. Okay, which is the squirrel.

[Andrew Muller]

And we learned that the. This was not the first time anybody

[Unknown Male Speaker 1]

running for president or vice president should take a cognitive test, and no president has ever taken one except me. I've taken three of them.

[Andrew Muller]

We did learn, however, and without for a moment wishing to cast any doubt whatsoever upon the President of the United States, ability to distinguish between the illustrations in children's books that Donald Trump is yet to figure out entirely why no previous occupant of the White House has been subjected to a cognitive test, never mind three of them, by concerned doctors, like not even Millard Fillmore. And he was nuts. We've still got that chorus, right? What a fool.

[Juliet Lindley]

Stupid 13th president only carried one state in 1856 and that was Maryland, which hardly counts.

[Georgina Godwin]

What kind of answer, what kind of

[Juliet Lindley]

idiot idea was the Compromise of 1850 anyway? Stupid couldn't get nominated for a second

[Andrew Muller]

term by his own party.

[Juliet Lindley]

What a deadbeat.

[Richard Hedarian]

You know what?

[Laura Kramer]

I really don't like him.

[Andrew Muller]

Waste of everybody's time. You said making that was. And that's like three goes we've had out of it now in barely five years.

[Juliet Lindley]

I look forward to many more uses of the sound effect of the guy carrying a harpsichord up a spiral staircase with trousers full of live crabs and a goose for some reason that I spent half the afternoon on.

[Andrew Muller]

That's the spirit. We will now be needing some of that silly French accordion music, For we learn to pivot away from one of President Trump's few honestly acquired accolades, that is triple champion of passing an examination used by doctors to figure out if their clearly doddering patient has disappeared irrecoverably around the twist that President Trump's enthusiasm for helping himself to dubiously credentialed baubles is catching on in France. Yes, we learned that a French boffin, Professor Florent Monticlair, apparently not content with having the Frenchest name in France, had been occluding a couple of key details pertaining to his decoration back in 2016 with the gold Medal of Philology by the International Society of Philology, an honour previously bestowed, according to the International Society of Philology's own website, upon such revered linguists as Roman Jacobsen, Yuri Lottmann, Hans Helmuth Christvan and Meredith Gardner, with whose works the general muttered agreement. Crew are doubtless conversant. We further learned that in 2017, the International Society of Philology had awarded an honorary honour to Noam Chomsky. It's a very important moment for the Society to give you today this gold medal. I'll show it to the audience and

[Phil Clark]

I show it to you.

[Andrew Muller]

And who could imagine Noam Chomsky falling for anything of questionable provenance? But we learned that a few of Professor Montaclair's bitter and pedantic colleagues were harrumphing. That neither the International Society of Philology nor its gold medal exist except in the imagination of Professor Montaclair. However, rather than join any chorus of sanctimonious condemnation, we plan to content ourselves polishing the inaugural Monocle Radio trophy for best weekly news review. For monocle radio, I'm andrew muller.

[Georgina Godwin]

Thank you, andrew. This is the globalist on monocle radio.

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[Georgina Godwin]

Well, let's head down to afre the tip of Africa now and get a roundup of news to from Cape Town, from Phil Clark, who's professor of International Politics at SOAS University of London. Phil, you lucky man. Being in Cape Town, how is it there?

[Phil Clark]

I mean, it's rough here, Georgina. People are complaining that we're getting close to winter, but it's still 20 degrees and blazing sunshine in Cape Town. So yeah, people here probably shouldn't complain too much.

[Georgina Godwin]

Yeah, apart perhaps from Cyril Ramaphosa because D day is approaching for him. Tell us the detail on this story.

[Phil Clark]

Indeed, this is the front page news in all of the South African papers today, Georgina. President Cyril Ramaphosa. His case has been considered in the South Africa Constitutional Court. The case in question goes back to 2020 when there was a police investigation into Ramaphosa's farm after there was an alleged theft of for the equivalent of $4 million. And I guess this is a famous case in South Africa because the allegation was that he had stashed this money down the back of a sofa on his game farm. The money was then stolen and that triggered a criminal case. And the South African authorities are trying to work out where Ramaphosa got this money with the proceeds of ill gotten gains. And the case kind of rumbled on the reason this case is in front of the Constitutional Court and why this ruling will come down today is that the eff, the Economic Freedom Fighters, one of the major opposition parties, have brought impeachment charges in the South African Parliament against Ramaphosa over this case. The parliament initially refused to engage in these impeachment proceedings and that's why the EFF have taken this case to the Constitutional Court. So the country is kind of waiting with bated breath today to see whether we may in fact end up with these impeachment proceedings against Ramaphosa in the next few weeks.

[Georgina Godwin]

Let's go to Eswatini, formerly Swaziland. The president of Taiwan is there at the moment displeasing China, who've called him a rat.

[Phil Clark]

This has been one of the big diplomatic stories in Southern Africa in the last couple of weeks, Georgina. It hasn't received a huge amount of international coverage, but Reuters are covering it today. The reason that the Taiwanese president's visit to Eswatini is such a big deal is that Eswatini is the only African state that formally recognizes the state of Taiwan. And so China recently imposed a zero tariffs regime on all African states. This was contrary to the US policy of imposing huge tariffs on African states. And that was the Chinese move, was welcomed warmly across the continent. But there was one exception to the Chinese tariff regime and that was Eswatini. They've punished Eswatini by imposing quite heavy tariffs on that country because of their stance on Taiwan. The Taiwanese president tried to Visit Eswatini about 10 days ago, but China mobilized all of the neighboring African states to deny him airspace. He wasn't able to fly into Eswatini anyway. The Taiwanese president has been quite tenacious. He's managed to find a way to travel to Eswatini. He's there for the next couple of days and I guess the Eswatini government are now looking at Taiwan and saying, what are you going to do for us? You know, we've been targeted systematically by China that's harming our economy. We now need a really good diplomatic and economic deal deal from you. So it will be very interesting to see what comes out of, of this new diplomatic relationship between Taiwan and Eswatini.

[Georgina Godwin]

Let's go to Rwanda now. And a French court has reopened the genocide case into the former president's wife there.

[Phil Clark]

This is a big story in Rwanda. The reason is that the former president's wife, Agath Haburamana, according to the Rwandan authorities, was a central figure in the genocide against the Tutsi in Rwanda in 1994. And I think most criminal investigations have suggested that there's at least a case against Agatha for her complicity in helping to organize the genocide in 1994. Those are the allegations at least. She, after 1994, fled Rwanda. She's been living in France for the last 30 years. She's been living quite openly. People have known where she's been and the Rwandan authorities are, have been furious with the French authorities over not going after her. About six months ago, the French courts in fact officially closed the investigations into Agartaba Romana and that caused an absolute firestorm in Kigali. There's been lots of diplomatic pressure in the background. There's a renewed diplomatic relationship between Rwanda and France. And I think that's the reason why in the last couple of days we've in fact seen the investigations into Habi Romana reopened. And so Rwanda, I guess, sees this as the ongoing pursuit of justice, that very senior genocide suspects who are able to flee abroad often have lived very freely, have never seen their day in court. Agatha Romana is the wife of the President, is perhaps the most high profile suspect who's still at large. And I think all eyes will be on this case being reopened and what happens in those genocide investigations over the months to come.

[Georgina Godwin]

And finally, Phil, let's go to Mali.

[Phil Clark]

This is a story in much of the West African press this week, Georgina, but I see that it's also hit the Washington Post today.

[Richard Hedarian]

Quite a.

[Phil Clark]

Quite a remarkable story within a very tragic situation. Al Qaeda linked militants have been targeting the Malian state over the last six to 12 months. And those militants killed the Malian Defence Minister as recently as two weeks ago. There's a real fear that these militants may in fact topple the government in Mali and bring some sort of military hunter to power. But in the midst of all of that, there was this quite farcical situation during the week where the militants targeted what they thought was a military convoy on the outskirts of Bamako, which is the Malian capital. In fact, it was no such thing. It was a long convoy of fruit sellers who'd been coming in from the Malian countryside. They'd been trying to sell their oranges and their mango goes on. The Malian markets, they've been blocked because of the conflict and so thankfully, none of the fruit sellers were killed. But I saw some of the Malian press coverage in the last couple of days and there's an absolute fruit salad of a disaster zone. These poor fruit sellers now whose vehicles have been destroyed and we're talking about a kilometers long convoy of hundreds of fruit trucks and splattered fruit all over, over. All over the soil. So on one level, it's a very picturesque situation. It gives this kind of absurd, fruity, kind of colorful imagery. But there of course is a tragedy to this which is that everyday Malians are the ones fundamentally suffering because of this conflict between the militants and the state. And I guess, unfortunately, it's also this kind of fruity, colorful imagery that captures the imagination of the international press, which is why a long standing conflict has finally hit the pages of the Washington Post. So there's a kind of absurdity, a kind of picaresque element to all of this, but clearly a tragic dimension to this situation too.

[Georgina Godwin]

Absolutely, Phil, thank you very much indeed. That's Phil Clark, professor of International Politics at soas, speaking to us from Cape Town. This is the Globalist on Monocle Radio. Now, if you were listening to what we learned, you would have heard of the international award, the Gold Medal of Philology, which in fact doesn't exist, though the French professor Florent Montaclair went to considerable lengths to pretend that it did. Well, in our Xeric studio is our senior producer, Laura Kramer. Laura, it's a very bizarre story, isn't it?

[Laura Kramer]

Oh, you know, it's one of those stories that as you're reading it, it's got so many fun layers and you start feeling your feelings face hurting because you realize you've been smiling like an idiot the entire time as you're flipping through the newspaper. But it's interesting if we go to the beginning in 2015, French professor Florent Montclair, he had quite an unremarkable teaching instructor career. Let's be honest, it was fairly obscure academic who you know, and one of my favorite parts about him, he wrote vampire fantasy novels in his spare time. So clearly we've got a man here with a vivid imagination and possibly, arguably too much free time on his hands. But it's around then that an article appeared in this local newspaper in Besancon saying that he was about to receive this Gold Medal of Philology in 2016 at a ceremony held at the national assembly in Paris. And now the award was going to be bestowed upon him by the International Society of Philology. Very important sounding. It was presented almost like a new Nobel Peace or Nobel Prize for this field, which is the study of language and text. And as it turns out, as you said, entirely fictional academic prize from a made up organization. And now he's under investigation. Whoopsies. Because he's Been getting away with it for a decade now.

[Georgina Godwin]

And how was he finally caught?

[Laura Kramer]

Well, I mean, it's very interesting. I do want to kind of touch on how he was able to also dupe everybody in the process, Georgina, because my, I'll be honest, I dated an academic and there is nothing that they love more than an awards ceremony. It's a field that runs very heavily on reputation and symbolism. And so often how you're published and the awards that you're getting, all that stuff matters, it's credibility. So they are salivating for it. So if a new one comes along, they're absolutely super happy to come on. So oddly enough, the breakthrough came from Romania because. Because he announced a Romanian scholar, Eugen Simeon, was set to receive this award in 2018 as the next winner. And local journalists there started digging into the so called International Society of Philology and they discovered that the organization didn't exist. And so they wrote some papers and messaged people. But he still went along with it for a long time after. Very fascinating details here.

[Georgina Godwin]

Do we know what's happened to Professor Florent Montaclaire now?

[Laura Kramer]

Well, he is now under investigation by prosecutors in Besancon and the university where he taught has suspended him indefinitely. Police are now searching to see, you know, because he told officers that he supposed it's about the medal when they came for him. He's defending himself, saying that it wasn't fraud, but an attempt to create a new academic distinction that simply failed. Although of course there is a legal tricky question here about whether this fake award benefits his career or finances.

[Georgina Godwin]

Well, exactly. And didn't the award itself cost him something like £250 from a jeweler's shop?

[Laura Kramer]

Here's my question beyond all this. Imagine this man's email inbox, Georgina, because he's had to create the fake society, the fake award. He also created a fake university in Delaware in the US and people did have questions because the websites for it looked quite amateurish and they're like, oh, this prestigious website isn't all that set out to be. But how did he have the time to do all this? Because if anything, it takes away from philology because surely he had other real work to be doing in his field. But instead he chose to do this. I actually admire him. I think we should, you know, more of us should, should lie on their cv. Clearly you can get away with it if you spin it out long enough.

[Georgina Godwin]

Be more. Florent Montacour. Laura, thank you very much indeed. That's Laura Kramer, the there in our Zurich studio. And that's all we have time for today. Thanks to our producers, Angelica Jopson, Hassan Anderson and Anita Riota, our researcher, Josefina Gomez, and our studio manager, Elliot Greenfield, with editing assistance from Christy o'. Grady. After the headlines. There's more music on the way and the briefing is live at midday. In London, the Globalist returns at the same time on Monday. I'm Georgina Godwin. Thank you for listening.

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