E (3:48)

Good morning, Georgina.

A (3:49)

Just tell us what exactly then is a government shutdown and why has this one happened Now?

E (3:54)

Georgina, this is a tale as old as a time. It feels like at this point in the United States there's been shutdowns around five decade, the way back to the Reagan administration used to have these. There's either a government shutdown these days in the states or another tactic is the debt ceiling was something that we saw under the Joe Biden's administration, for example. Republicans using to try basically the opposition in government will use this moment, this moment of when Congress needs to agree a budget to try and extract concessions from the party that is currently in government. That's what is happening. That's what often happens. The Senate, the House have to agree a budget every year. Often they simply don't. In this case, there was an extension of the budget back in March. At that point, Democrats allowed it to go through. That was controversial for many Democrats that Chuck Schumer, the Senate minority leader, let that extension happen. This time around, Republicans are saying, please give us another extension for a few months. We can make a deal. Democrats have said no. This is the point where they want to lay down the gauntlet and say no. We have things that we want from you, from the Trump administration, administration and from Republicans and we're going to hold firm this time until you give it to us.

A (5:11)

And what is it they want?

E (5:13)

This is basically about health care, which is interesting in the sense, Georgina, that, you know, it's not something we have talked about much on this show. There's so much happening in the Trump administration, right? Cuts to foreign aid, the cuts to federal government workers, all the rest of it. So there are many things that Democrats could have chosen. They don't have many levers right now in the government, if you will, because they're in the minority to affect policy. And they've decided that health care is the one that is going to help them. It's popular with voters. There is an extension of subsidies that might not happen at the end of this year. So that is one thing that they are targeting. This comes from back when health care was passed under Obama. They want subsidies for that to be extended. They also want certain cuts to Medicaid, for example, which is a program for low income Americans that was cut under Donald Trump's big, beautiful bill that was passed earlier this year. They want those. So they're focusing basically on health care costs because they believe that is a simple thing. It's something that they can control. It's simply about money and whether money is spent or not. It's not something the administration would have much leeway over. And they're deciding that's the fight that they can win here.

A (6:26)

Now, not everybody voted along party lines. Two Democrats crossed the floor to back the Republican bill. Why? And how unusual is that?

E (6:35)

It's not actually that unusual. If anything, Democrats are more united this time than they might have been in past government shutdown fights. And that's partly because there are frankly, fewer centrist Democrats these days who might, you know, cross the aisle than there were before. And so you're seeing Democrats basically hold together in the Senate at this point. And that's, that's actually, yes, it's, it's sort of, it's, it's part of this game. Right. Most everyone is going to be nervous about this. For Democrats, what's interesting here is they are taking on a party and an administration that is more anti government really than any before it. So there is lot of wariness among Democrats. Donald Trump is threatening to basically cut Democratic favored programs in response to this government shutdown happening to lay off workers and all the rest of it. So there are of course, a lot of Democrats nervous about what a government shutdown means under a Trump administration, as.

A (7:32)

You say, mass layoffs. So, I mean, in real terms, what will federal workers and indeed ordinary Americans feel first?

E (7:39)

Well, that's the question. If it's the first day, we've just had one day of the government shutdown. Ordinary Americans did not feel much at all at this point. This is always a question of how long this lasts because when it comes to those federal workers that are in essential positions, they are asked to continue their jobs. Actually, there's more people working in this shutdown than in past shutdowns, in part because there's also some money left from other things from other bills that were passed. So example, money given to the Pentagon and immigration. Even the irs, Internal Revenue Service has money left over from other bills. Even the national parks are staying partially open at this point. So the question is how long this lasts. That's when ordinary Americans are going to feel it. In the meantime, there's just a lot of chaos among federal Workers themselves, they don't know what their position is. There are these threats that they could be fired wholesale from the Trump administration. There was a lot of confused messaging yesterday, apparently over whether they should even go to work or not. Some who thought they were furloughed ended up having to come in, others the opposite. So there's a lot of chaos out there and a lot of, frankly, depressed federal workers at the moment.

A (8:47)

And there could be a lot of chaos in the skies. So airlines are saying safety and air travel could be affected. How serious are those warnings?

E (8:55)

This is also, again, a question of how long this lasts. This is something we saw the last time there was a government shutdown in the first Trump administration. That one lasted 35 days. And now you have to imagine that means 35 days of people working without pay. Right. It's the promise that they will get paid once a budget is passed. But the longer that something goes on, the more you're going to have workers call in sick, say, I've refused to work, I'm not going to work, I have not been paid. And that is something that is, of course, a worry, particularly in critical infrastructure positions such as air traffic controllers. That's kind of what forced a deal last time around, because that was what was starting to creak. And when it comes to safety, that's when the public in particular is going to get louder and say, come on, guys, reach a deal.

A (9:42)

Yeah. So, I mean, the cost is at $400 million a day. Could this damage the economy?

E (9:48)

It's always this question as well, right? As if a budget is eventually agreed, then it doesn't necessarily damage the economy that much because the money is then paid back into the system. What it does damage is confidence in the United States that is already dented because of the broken politics we have there. There's a question of borrowing costs for the US and whether that will go up, things like that. That's something that could last longer, depending on how long this goes on.

A (10:15)

So, I mean, what happens next?

E (10:18)

Well, it's a question of how dug in both sides are at this point, Georgina. There is a small group of senators, around 20 senators, a bipartisan group that's trying to work on some sort of deal. So that is happening in the background. But at the moment, this looks to be a fight that both sides want. As I said at the outset, Donald Trump is sort of the most anti government administration that we've seen in a long time. So he's almost welcoming this fight. Democrats as well are frankly welcoming the fight because they haven't had much say over anything in these first months of the Donald Trump's administration. And frankly, even the threats that Trump has put out there, firing federal workers, shutting down Democratic favorite programs, as this goes on, is something that Democrats say you are going to do anyway. This is what's been happening already over the last few months. We've had doge, we've had these government cuts and so on and so forth. So for them, Donald Trump's threats ring hollow at this point. They feel he's going to be cutting programs regardless of what they do. And so they have decided this is their point to fight. At this point, it is a game of chicken between both sides. Who's going to hold out longest and who is? As always in the US and anywhere else, we're in a democratic system. So who is the public going to blame, right? Who is going to get the blame for this? Typically, it is the party who is in power that is going to get blamed. Because at the end of the day, even if Donald Trump is anti government, he is also running the government. So if people start to feel the pain of government services not being available, they will blame the party in power more likely than they will the opposition and say, come on, we want a government that works. So that's the question here. Is Trump going to blink simply because he starts to get some of the blame and this starts to turn on him, or is the public going to blame Democrats?

A (12:14)

The story we'll be watching very closely. Chris Chermak, thank you very much indeed. This is the globalist. It is 911 in Gaza, 711 here in London. The Global Sumud Flotilla, a convoy of more than 40 small boats sailing to Gaza carrying food, medicine and supplies, along with some 500 people, including parliamentarians, lawyers and the Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg, was intercepted overnight by Israeli forces who boarded several vessels and detained activists, including Thunberg. Some boats were forced off course, others continued towards Gaza. In Italy, the political shock has been immediate. Protests have flared, a general strike has been called, and debate rages over whether Rome has abandoned its citizens or simply avoided being pulled into war. I'm joined now from Rome by Giorgio Orlandi, a journalist covering international affairs. What exactly happened as the flotilla neared Gaza?

F (13:17)

Well, yeah, what unfolded last night here in Rome and in other major cities was pretty impressive. We saw large crowds of people taking to the streets spontaneously right after the flotilla blockade. And as you mentioned, I mean, even in Rome, like at least 10,000 people rallied last night. They demand that the government somehow prevents what's been happening to the FLOT flotilla and that it takes a firmer stance against Israel. The flotilla, yes, was intercepted. We understand that as of now, at least 20 ships or so have been intercepted, 22 more are still sailing towards Gaza. And people here in Rome and across other cities do feel that this is unlawful. They also promised that when the general strike happened, the first one on 22nd September, they said that if anything is going to happen to the flotilla, whether it's going to be blocked or its activists are going to be arrested, they said they promised that they would block everything. That's exactly how they worded it. Of course, the very scope of the fetiya was not just to deliver aid, but most importantly, to shed light on what they describe as Israel's violations of both human and maritime law and also highlight the fact that European governments, and not only European governments, have done very little if nothing to prevent these in at least in almost two years of war.

A (15:08)

So the Italian Foreign Minister says that Israel promised not to use violence. How close then is Rome's coordination with Israeli officials? And is there a feeling that the government hasn't protected its citizens, it's abandoned?

F (15:22)

Oh, yes. So according to Italy's Foreign Minister Tani, it seems that both the Italian and also the Greek governments have called on Israel, as you mentioned, not to use violence and to ensure the safety of the activists. We know that in the previous days the Defense Minister sent a warship to offer assistance to the Flotee and to the activists, although they also warned them that the minute they would be entering a territorial sea, then they would be entering a high risk zone where clearly the Italian Navy wouldn't be able to intervene. So, yeah, there is a feeling, responding to your question, that these people have been somehow abandoned. In fact, yesterday the global movement to Gaza held a press conference here in Rome to talk about the flotilla. And they also touched on some very interesting legal aspects concerning their mission, saying that the question that has not been asked is why these people in the first place should be attacked in international waters. And in fact, the Italian spokesperson of the flotilla referred to Francesca Albanese's statement. She's the UN Rapporteur on Palestinian occupied territories and she pointed out that Internet, according to a UN treaty, international waters, in international waters, ships should be allowed to move freely. And also the territorial sea is a sovereign belt of water that extends at most 12 nautical miles. But even there, Israel's intervention is considered unlawful simply because, according to the UN and the International Court of Justice, Israel's occupation of Gaza is illegal. So of course, these people were expecting more from the Italian government and they simply wanted to highlight the fact that it doesn't matter whether Israel as Palestinians in Gaza or European citizen. It seems that the law does not apply to Israel. That's their claim.

A (17:35)

And so finally, what could this mean for Meloni politically and for European opinion of the war more broadly?

F (17:42)

Meloni condemned these protests, of course, and she claims that these rallies have been mainly organized to protest against the government. So the scope of the Israelis, according to Meloni, is not support Gaza, but rather to protest against their government. Well, certainly what's been happening in the country has had a major impact on the country, on the government itself. Melon has been also criticized for not recognizing the Palestinian state. And now the government is rethinking somehow its strategy on that as well. We should wait and see how long this will last, whether these protests will turn into something that more long lasting against the government itself or whether it's going to fade away. For now, of course, more projects will be organized with another general strike planned on Friday and more strike actions planned in the next few days as well.

A (18:51)

Giorgio Orlandi, journalist covering international affairs in Rome. Thank you very much indeed. Now, still to come on the program.

G (18:59)

There'S two Janes, there's me and then there's this icon out there which has really been created by the Geographic and Discovery Channel.

A (19:07)

Jane Goodall, the primatologist, has died at 91. We'll look back at her life. This is the globalist craft is a matter of perspective, a unique outlook, an obsessive attention to detail. With UBS's Chief Investment Office Houseview, we're focused on identifying the latest investment opportunities and market risks to help you achieve your financial goals. So you get the big picture broken down into thought provoking insights delivered daily and curated by over 200 globally connected, locally active analysts. UBS Banking is our craft.

E (19:49)

Foreign.

A (19:56)

This is the Globalist on Monocle Radio. I'm Georgina Godwin. The time here in London is 7:19. And joining me in the studio to have a look through today's newspapers is Charles Hecker, author and Russia analyst. Charles, we've just been talking about looking ahead to this obit we're running on Jane Goodall and a snatch of an interview that we did with her a while ago. How are the papers covering her day?

D (20:19)

Georgina good morning. The news of Jane Goodall's death is in almost every international newspaper that you can look at and they're covering it quite differently. So if we look to the new York Times. In addition to the sort of newsy obituary, there is a side piece that starts with a headline that says, there will always only be one Jane Goodall. And the thrust of this piece really is what Goodall's work did to force us to reevaluate, evaluate the human species. And her work on discovering how chimpanzees use tools and how primates interact amongst each other forced a lot of reconsideration about the way we studied human evolution and the way humans interact and the way humans learned to use tools. If you move on to something like the Times here in London, it talks more about her as an individual and how robust she was in her exploration and how she went into places, especially as a woman, especially many, many decades ago. She went to places that were remote, that were dangerous, that required a lot of preparation. And there's an anecdote in a piece in the Times. It says that basically there was. She was forced to bring a chaperone on one of her earliest expeditions, and she brought her mother.

A (21:45)

That's lovely, because, I mean, she wasn't scientifically trained, actually, at the beginning, was she?

D (21:49)

No, no, no, that's right. And you see that it's interesting because if we were to look at how the Guardian is portraying Jane Goodall's life, they do a fantastic photo essay that's dedicated, you know, they've dedicated quite a bit of space, really, to her life, and they show her evolution, if I can use that phrase, from sort of a young, almost sort of anthropologist, almost person, to somebody who has genuinely become enormously well respected in the world of science and who was collaborating with universities and research centers all around the world, and then eventually, of course, had a research center named after her. So, yeah, this photo essay shows, you know, her as quite, almost as a young girl starting in 1964, and then ends with a photo of her this year, because, of course, Goodall died active. You know, she was not hospitalized, she was not in bed, she was not ill. She, as we'll learn from her obituary, she died very much as she lived and that was actively engaged in promoting environmental causes and the work of primates. The work of primates.

A (23:06)

I mean, you talk about the great respect shown to her, and there certainly is that, but it wasn't ever thus. I remember going to a talk she gave, and it must have been, I don't know, decades ago in the club in Nairobi, and she came on barefoot and making sort of ape noises, which prompted laughter and eye rolls.

D (23:23)

I mean, I think when you look at some of the other obituaries that have been written, there is quite a lot of naturally, about her role as a young woman. And a lot of her scientific collaborations were with other young, up and coming female scientists. And she established, if you will, a sort of sisterhood neighborhood of women scientists who were pioneers in fields like genetics, in virology, in medicine, in primatology. And she was both the focal point of this group, but also its main driver.

A (24:04)

Charles, your book is called Zero Sum, and it's about the sort of trajectory of international business in Russia. And there couldn't be a more perfect case study than this next story about an Austrian bank that's trying to get out of the country.

D (24:18)

Well, that's right. You know, I always have one eye on Russia. Sometimes I have both eyes on Russia and always one eye on the Moscow Times. And if we go to the Moscow Times right now, we'll see a very large, bold face headline saying, austria's Rafeisen Bank Fails Again to exit Russia as authorities block the sale. And so this is the story of Austria's bank Rafeisen, which was the largest remaining Western bank in Russia. And one of the reasons why it remained is that it was one of the only channels between east and west, between Russia and the rest of the world for funneling fund transfers when they were necessary. And that included capital exiting the country and payments for oil and gas and the remaining sort of droplets of commerce between east and West. In this extremely complicated sanctions environment, Rafeisen has been under crushing pressure from EU regulators and from the United States to get out of Russia. It tried to sell itself yesterday. The sale was blocked. There was a Russian entity that was going to buy the bank. The concern is that that Russian entity itself will then be sanctioned and the whole deal will come apart. So there it is.

A (25:33)

Yeah. Charles, you are enjoying a cappuccino, as am I, made by the lovely Alejandra. But it seems that we are not with the global boom because everybody else is drinking matcha.

D (25:44)

That's right. We should all be having matcha lattes at our side or matcha cheesecake or matcha sweets or, you know, anything that you can label matcha. This is creating a problem in Japan, and this is not just a resource problem. We're looking at the Japan Times now that says tea ceremony experts see matcha hype as a big opportunity. The tea ceremony is a central part of Japanese culture and it is a highly ritualistic ceremony about the beverage and about people and about the instruments. And it's in a special room and it's for Tourists and it's for locals and it's split, split Japanese society. Some backers of the tea ceremony see the matcha boom as a fantastic opportunity to do tea ceremonies all over the world and not just in Japan. The other side of the coin, however, is that there is genuinely a spike in the cost of matcha and its increasingly scarcity. And the tea ceremony experts are saying, would everybody please stop drinking matcha so that we can have our tea ceremonies. Really, really interesting piece in the Japan Times.

A (26:51)

And finally, tars UK taxpayers might be see, but what color red might they be seeing and why?

D (26:58)

Well, that's right, it might be a very bright color called cherry red. And this is a fantastic piece in the Times. It says wrong. Red in stars and stripes proved costly for Trump's UK visit. And you learn a lot when you look at this story because you learn, first of all that there are commissions that look at flag colors and that the work of these commissions become particularly acute at the time of state visits, when flags are festooned all over cities, countries and various venues. And such was the case when President Trump came for his state visit to the United Kingdom. What happened was typically the red in the UK flag and the red in the American flag are quite close. The Trump administration asked the UK flag commission to change the color red that it was using in the American flag to make it brighter than the color red that was in the UK flag. And so this is a last minute suggestion. All of the American flags around London and everywhere else that President Trump went during his visit had to come down. They had to be remade, they had to be rehung and recolored at a cost of £50,000 to the UK taxpayer.

A (28:06)

What does that tell us about the insecure person in charge who needs to demand something like that?

D (28:11)

Well, I mean, it seemed, you know, the Times is portraying this as quite a significant break in protocol and that, you know, at the last minute they realized that the red just wasn't popping and that it needed to be amped up a bit from a slightly more traditional, I don't know, know, almost like a sort of tomato or tomato red, to have the volume turned up to something brighter, like a cherry.

A (28:33)

Charles Ecker, thank you very much indeed. This is the Globalist. Now, here's what else we're keeping an eye on today. EU leaders meeting in Copenhagen vowed to boost defences against Russian drones after a series of airspace incursions rattled Denmark, Poland and Estonia. The summit also debated using frozen Russian atmospher assets to fund a loan for Ukraine as leaders deployed troops and anti drone systems to protect the gathering, which would be attended by Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky. Today two people had been killed in Morocco as youth led protests for health care and education reforms spread nationwide. Clashes between protesters and security forces left schools injured, with unrest escalating into arson, looting and violent confrontations across several streets cities and the South Korean foreign minister said his country and the United States have reached a rough agreement on security. In tandem with ongoing tariff negotiations, Washington had agreed to lower tariffs on imports from South Korea in return for a $350 billion investment package. But follow up negotiations to hammer out details, including the structure of the investment package, have stalled. This is the Glass. Stay tuned. The primatologist Jane Goodall, whose study of chimpanzees helps shed light on human life, has died at the age of 91. Monocle's Andrew Muller looks back at the life of Goodall, who spent the majority of her time researching our closest non.

G (30:20)

Human relatives, coming directly from there to here. But of course, my real field of expertise lies in an even different kind of civilization. I can't really call it a civilization, a different way of life from a different being.

C (30:41)

It seems in retrospect, obvious convention upending theories often do. Centuries of naturalists had observed wildlife, even the wildlife most closely related to humans, as substantially insentient creatures operating on intelligence, instinct and reflex, one animal of a given species much like the next. It seems incredible that this assumption persisted so long had none of these people met dogs, which, aside from a common interest in biscuits, are noticeably divergent characters. It is telling that the contradiction, when it arrived, was posited by someone who her times had granted little option but to be an altar outsider. Valerie Jane Morris Goodall was born on April 3, 1934, in London. In later life, possibly not entirely seriously, she was fond of ascribing her fascination with animals to a gift her father gave her as a child, a soft toy chimpanzee, which she called Jubilee. Encouraging though her parents were, by the time Goodall reached adulthood in the 1950s, the prospects of a young woman from England pursuing a career studying primates in Africa were broadly comparable with her chances of traveling to the moon. Goodall was lucky in being invited in 1957 to visit the Kenya farm owned by a school friend's parents. But she made the most of it, impressing the paleoanthropologist Louis Leakey sufficiently that he engaged her as a researcher. Goodall returned to Africa in 1960, to Gombe, on the western lake shore of what was then the British colonial territory of Tanganyika, shortly to become the Republic of Tanzania. In deference to the concerns of local authorities, she was accompanied by.

G (32:25)

I went to Africa because my dream when I was 10 was to go to Africa, live with wild animals and write books about them. Women. Didn't you know? You didn't have women scientists back then, not in that sort of life. And everybody said dream about something you can achieve. But my mother said if you really want something, you're going to have to work extremely hard. Take advantage of opportunity, but don't give up.

C (32:49)

Goodall didn't so much study Gombe's chimpanzees as move in with them. She understood them as individuals with distinctive personalities. Personalities. Rather than recording them as numbers, she gave them names. David, Greybeard, Flint, Goliath, Passion, Frodo and Fifi. Goodall noted that they were capable of expressing and experiencing emotions, joy, sorrow, anticipation, bereavement. She observed them making and using tools and hunting other animals. All of which was news to the field of primatology, as was the idea that chimpanzees engage in methodical violence.

G (33:24)

Chimpanzees have been seen drinking from natural water bowls in Uganda, but on those instances they merely dipped their fingers into the water and licked off the drops.

A (33:35)

The exciting fact in the Gombe Stream.

G (33:37)

Area is that the chimpanzee, by initially.

A (33:40)

Crumpling the leaves into a sponge, is.

G (33:42)

In fact making a tool.

C (33:47)

Goodall's 1990 memoir Through a My 30 Years with the Chimpanzees of Gombe would later recall a four year conflict between two troops of chimps during the mid-19 centuries. In 1962 the University of Cambridge, correctly impressed, admitted her as a PhD candidate despite her lack at that time of a degree. In 1965 Goodall established the Gombe Stream Research Centre to train students interested in primatology and ecology. The area in which she'd been studying became the Gombe Stream National park in 1968. The Jane Goodall Institute, an environment and conservation NGO based in Washington D.C. was established in 1970. Goodall was heavily laden with awards, trophies and baubles. In 2002 the UN named her a Messenger of Peace. She was Knighted by the UK in 2004 and awarded the Legion of Honor by France in 2006 and presented with honorary degrees running into the dozens. She was also less formally, if no less affectionately acknowledged in popular culture. One of Gary Larson's fireside cartoons deployed her as the punchline. Lego created a tribute kit. A 2001 episode of the Simpsons featured an extremely thinly disguised primatologist called Joan Bushwell.

F (35:08)

Every day I get up at 5:30.

A (35:11)

Watch the chimps, eat a quick lunch of roots and water, then more chimp watching. After dark I come home and think about chimps until it's time for bed.

D (35:19)

You must be the most boring woman on earth.

A (35:21)

Possibly.

C (35:22)

But 19 seasons later, Goodall appeared as herself.

G (35:26)

See soon.

A (35:27)

Wait.

G (35:28)

Come back. Take me with you.

C (35:29)

I want a life exactly like yours.

G (35:31)

Well, so do hundreds of others, but still, you might get lucky if you work really hard and get a doctorate.

D (35:38)

Would you give me a scholarship?

G (35:40)

No, you'd have to save up like I did.

D (35:43)

Then there's a slight chance you'll have me.

G (35:45)

Well, very slight. But don't give up.

F (35:48)

That is the most encouraging thing I have ever heard.

C (35:51)

She married twice to the Dutch filmmaker and aristocrat Baron Hugo Van Loewek, and to the Tanzanian MP and national parks, to director Derek Bryson. Well into old age, Goodall remained an indefatigable traveler, speaker and advocate, regularly on the road more than 300 days a year. In 2018, Goodall was a guest on Monocle 24's the Big Interview. It wasn't easy to think of a question she hadn't been asked before, but I think we managed. Once you get hold of the idea that animals have personalities and they have temperaments and they have moods, with chimpanzees in particular, that obviously means there's going to be differences between different animals. Has there ever been or is there ever examples of you encountering a chimpanzee you just don't like?

G (36:36)

Yes, absolutely. I absolutely didn't like passion. She was a terrible mother and she cannibalized three infants, probably 10 altogether, other people's infants. And she was a terrible mother to her own, at least for the first two. And I can't say I like Frodo, this big bully. He bullied other chimps, but he bullied researchers and particularly me. You can't really like somebody who's always stamping on you and dragging you and could kill you like that. So he didn't want to. I mean, he could have killed any of us. But it was just bravado, showing off. You know, I'm dominant. And I kept thinking, Frodo, I know you're stronger than me. I know you're dominant. I completely agree. Please leave me alone.

C (37:25)

Jane Goodall was, as an intermediary between humankind and the natural world, easily as important as such environmental advocates as Sir David attenborough and Jacques Cousteau and performed singular service as an interpreter who enabled humans to better understand our closest relatives.

G (37:42)

This two Janes, there's me and then there's this icon out there which has really been created by the Geographic and Discovery Channel. And I have to try and live up to that reputation. You know, I thought about it a lot and I realized that although it's not very comfortable, it's important and I'll make use of it.

C (38:02)

For Monocle Radio, I'm Andrew Muller.

A (38:10)

Thank you, Andrew. Jane Goodall, who has died at the age of 91. And you can hear that full interview on our archive@monocle.com this is the globalist now. Zimbabwe, my home country, is Africa's biggest tobacco producer. But many farmers are betting their future on a healthier blueberries. Thanks to a new trade agreement, China has agreed to take Zimbabwean berries tax tariff free. It's a breakthrough for a cash strapped economy with hopes the country could rival Peru and become Africa's blueberry capital. But there are hurdles meeting China's strict standards, foreign currency controls, land security and the costs of expansion. Well, leading the charge is Alastair Campbell, a former captain of Zimbabwe's cricket team who's now running one of the country's biggest blueberry farms. Well, we head to Harare now where Alistair is. Alistair is also the owner and CEO of Laueta in Versailles Investments Blueberry Farm and chairman of the Horticultural Development Council of Zimbabwe. Alastair, good morning to you.

C (39:20)

Good morning, Georgina.

B (39:21)

How are you doing?

A (39:21)

I'm very good, or hazard as we would say if we were both back.

B (39:25)

Indeed.

A (39:26)

No, I'm wishy. Now. Why are blueberries being seen as Zimbabwe's next big crop?

B (39:32)

Interesting question. I think it's due to our geography, our latitude. So everybody has the industry sort of, you know, come to fruition and sort of matured, as it were. The realization has dawn that Zimbabwe has one of the last left, if not the last marketing window, unique marketing window for berries in the world. You mentioned Peru. They the beer moth and you know, you don't want to conflict with them. Then there's the Western Cape, there's Morocco and then there's the European summer. So basically we have a window and main window August, September, which is now we've just finished our window. We're conflicting with Peru now, but we have that window that nobody else can supply or hits their peak in. And for that reason it makes it a very nice proposition for sort of expansion as compared with other jurisdictions in the world at the moment.

A (40:27)

And how much of a prize is the Chinese market and what will it take to meet their quality test?

B (40:33)

Yeah, that's an interesting one. I always tell people it's a bit of a paradox. China, because they're the biggest producers of blueberries in the world. They're the biggest importers of blueberries in the world. And according to many of their bias, they don't really know much about blueberries. So that just gives you an understanding of the scale of that market. So, yeah, it's massive for us. And particularly being a zero tariff into China, they have a preference for the oversized berries. And, you know, we've got the jumbo berry and the super jumbo and we have a unique climate that we're able to get sizing on our fruit. And in Europe there, even in the uk, you wouldn't have seen much of the bigger fruit. It really is quite impressive. So China and the Far east in general pay a substantial premium for those bigger berries. So that's going to be our main focus, is to get the genetics in country that can produce those bigger berries for that China market, because that's where the real premium is.

A (41:28)

Yeah, we know that blueberries are demanding fruit to grow, but there are other challenges, too. Two decades after land reform, how secure do you feel about ownership and investment? And the fact that the government forces exporters to surrender part of their foreign currency earnings, will that affect business going forward?

B (41:46)

It's already affecting business and it's something that we're engaging government with on an almost weekly basis to try and clear the decks as well it were to attract more investment. Because what happened was, you know, the, the early plantings in Zimbabwe and up to date have really been done through commercial bank loans, some, you know, private funding, some family money. And it's been largely sort of experimental up to date. But now if you're wanting to attract the bigger DFIs and the, and the bigger funds, those are prerequisites for those investments to come in. And that is a reality now. So, yes, land tenure, there's, you know, obviously, obviously the talk of title deeds, but even government guarantees on certain pieces of land, there's that export retention, the 30%. There's other various ones. There's, you know, in Zimbabwe, it's, you know, to draw your cash out of the bank costs 3%. These, these are margins in the first world. So our Zimbabwe is open for business, we know that, but the ease of doing business is, is not there yet. So there's, there is a lot of lobbying going on and government are listening, so hopefully we can get that done. And you mentioned Peru, because that is exactly what happened in Peru is it wasn't happening. Government was slow to move to understand that this was a crop that could put Peru on the map. And once they understood that and worked with the private players, worked with the DFIs, understood what needed to happen to give this industry a boost and as you say, we could become the biggest producer in Africa. We have the water, we have the labour, we have the agricultural DNA, but we just need to make sure that the policies are attractive enough for that foreign investment to flow in. Because it's a highly capital intensive crop, you know, probably around about 120 to 150,000 US dollars a hectare to establish. So it requires a lot of capex, a lot of patient money and that patient money is only going to come from DFIs. And so yeah, we're working towards that. The portents are good. There's been some positive sort of noises from government and hopefully we can get it done sooner rather than late and get the hectares in the ground that we need to supply markets like China.

A (43:57)

Alistair, you once achieved global fame captaining Zimbabwe on the cricket pitch. Do you see parallels now in leading this push from tobacco to a healthier crop?

B (44:08)

Yeah, I think so. I mean, you mentioned tobacco, you know, blueberries, there's vast hectares of tobacco and if the market is there, I don't see that dwindling anytime soon. And plus tobacco can be a small scale crop and there's a lot of one hectare plots, half hectare plots, and all of that is aggregated by the buyers, et cetera. So as long as there's a market and there's big markets for tobacco still. But with blueberries, because it's capital, so highly capital intensive, it's not a small scale model so it'll have to be on a large commercial basis which needs big investment and our commercial banks don't have the capacity for that. But the private equity funds the DFIs do have, have appetite for that. They're looking for agricultural investments and we just need to present a place where they go that's a good destination for us to put our money. It's safe, we can get our money out, we can get our loans repaid and if they get that comfort then, then we, we, we'll be able to, yeah, I wouldn't say rival Peru, but we'll definitely be, be bigger than South Africa and the biggest on the continent in Morocco and we'd rival Morocco insofar as being Africa's best biggest producer.

A (45:16)

Alistair, thank you. That's Alastair Campbell hitting the blueberry market in Zimbabwe at 4 6. This is the Globalist on Monocle Radio, IQ, EQ and AI, three components key to the craft of innovation at UBS. Because to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving age, UB need a partner with decades of experience, endless passion for the work and a finger on the pulse of leading technologies. Bridging human expertise with artificial intelligence. All to elevate you. UBS banking is our craft. Time now for a roundup of stories from Indonesia. And for that we're joined by Devianti Fareedz, who's an Indonesian multimedia journalist who joins us from Jakarta. Devianti, many thanks for coming on the show. Headlines across the world now are looking at this horrible school collapse in East Java. Just recap what's happened and where we are now.

H (46:55)

Parents and rescuers are desperately searching for dozens of teenage boys believed to be trapped after the collapse at Al Hosni, an Islamic boarding school in Siduarjo, East Java, on September 29. The latest updates indicate 59 people were listed as missing and at least six have died. Currently, rescuers pulled out five injured students and located 15 people under the rubble still showing signs of life. Rescuers are prioritizing vital supplies, including oxygen, food and medicine for the victims as they claim the students can survive the crucial 72 hour window if they received essential life saving supplies.

A (47:39)

What are the issues behind this incident?

H (47:42)

This incident, you know, it's raised questions about Indonesia's lax enforcement of building safety standards. Unfortunately, it's common to find houses partially completed and allowing owners to add extra floors later when their budget permits. Al Hosni school officials said construction work had been ongoing for the past nine months. The spokesperson of the national search and rescue Agency, Abdul Muhari, called for stricter safety standards, urged the public and building managers to oversee construction processes more carefully to prevent similar incidents. Earlier this month, at least three people were killed and dozens injured when a building hosting a prayer recital also collapsed in West Java.

A (48:28)

So obviously this is an ongoing problem. Let's turn now and have a look at Indonesia's free meal program. So this is not turning out well. Tell us more.

H (48:41)

Well, Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto's flagship program has faced a lot of problems and that includes thousands of students having food poisoning. Now the president says, you know, this is a very important program for him. It's his flagship program. It aims to combat child malnutrition, which could improve academic performance. And he also wants to improve the nutrition for pregnant mothers. The program is designed to become an economic stimulus also in rural areas, especially in the agricultural sector. So President Prabowo says it's worth defending and fixing rather than abandoning. He said that the percentage of those affected was very small.

A (49:34)

Well, let's just talk about what they've been affected with. It's 6,000 cases of food poisoning.

H (49:40)

Yes, it's a really huge number. But there are efforts to improve food standards and also close down those who have not met those hygiene and safety standards. The National Nutrition Agency said last week 9,000. Out of the 9,000 kitchens in the program, 56 had been closed for not meeting these standards. President Prabowo is pushing for stricter safety standards, more oversight and improved infrastructure. He's ordered each kitchen in the program to be given rapid testing equipment to check the food quality, food tray, sterilizer, water filters and even CCTV connected to the central government for better monitoring.

A (50:27)

And I mean, this has had its upsides though. It served 30 million people since it launched in January.

H (50:33)

Yes, it has helped millions of students. And mind you, Indonesia is a very, very big country where some of the students can't even afford to have proper breakfast. Now, although critics have called out for the suspension of the free meal program, the program has also raised concern that it may not be fiscally sustainable. The government allotted a budget of US$20 billion for next year. That's tripling the estimated 2025 budget.

A (51:07)

Devianti, thank you very much indeed. The fabulously named Devianti Fareedz there speaking to us from Jakarta. You are listening to the Globalist on Monocle Radio now. Despite standing just 70km apart on the opposing shores of the Gulf of Finland, Helsinki and Tallinn boast strikingly different food and restaurant cultures. And while plenty of Finnish chefs have made their mark in the Estonian capital's vibrant dining scene, the traffic has been mostly one way. By opening restaurant Tah in Helsinki, the Estonian chef Tonisiga is the first big named Tallinn chef to try their wings in the Finnish capital. We dispatched our Helsinki correspondent Petri Birtsoff to find out more.

I (52:00)

Dervasari finished for Thar island is a green wooded outcrop just minutes from downtown Helsinki. Once the center of thriving tar trade, the island is now a popular site for picnics and summer gatherings. This is where Tariffs Tar Restaurant has opened its doors in a heritage building that once stored the very material that gives the island its name.

J (52:23)

Tony Sigur, I am Estonian co owner in Thal Restaurant and also executive chef.

I (52:29)

Sigur has been at the forefront of Tallinn's restaurant renaissance. But TAR is his first venture abroad. He describes his cooking style as rooted in French technique, but shaped by place and season.

J (52:43)

I use the product based dishes or kitchen. Also I try to put some influence. Depends where location I should make my restaurant and also by the season.

I (52:57)

That means TAR isn't simply an Estonian restaurant transplanted to Finland. It's a blend the chef's signature dishes and influences from his talent restaurants combined with Finnish ingredients and local traditions.

J (53:11)

Our plan was bring some influence. Definitely not only Estonian influence, but also influence in our previous restaurants. At same time I wanted to put also something from the local influence. It means we have combined the Estonian, our previous restaurant, the experience and history, plus Finland experience.

I (53:38)

For the project, Sigur teamed up with Finnish actor and entrepreneur Jasper Bergeren, the man behind Helsinki's celebrated Loul sauna and restaurant complex.

D (53:48)

The first idea I had was to get them to finally come over to Helsinki and to create something similar than what they've created successfully in in Tallinn. And on the food side, on the menu side, I didn't interfere at all. I gave completely free hands for the guys to create what they do best. My role was more on the kind of like the design and the development side of this building and how the architecture and the design of the place works and what we want to create on that side.

I (54:22)

Inside. The ambition mission is to match that setting with food that reflects both sides.

J (54:27)

Of the Gulf of Finland most important products. What I bring from Estonia is definitely black bread. It's really unique. Even in Estonia we have a lot of source of the black bread. And for me it means a lot. And we create one dish, but we try a little bit later on. We are calling this Estonian DNA. But same time I always in my experience I ordered white fish from Finland, never from Estonia, because quality wise is completely different.

I (54:59)

For Sigur, the move across the bay was a leap. Few Estonian restaurateurs have set up shop in Helsinki, despite the city being full of Estonian entrepreneurs in other sectors.

J (55:10)

It's not easy at all to move outside from the Estonia because you are afraid. You don't know which law, which country have and most important, what we freight. And I believe most of people afraid our business, the people based business. It means without good chefs, without good training, I cannot move forward. But as we know, we have a very close friend, Jasper in Finland. We heard about that house. We talk and our risk go down.

I (55:48)

And for Bakkunen, bringing Estonian chefs into Helsinki adds something genuinely new.

D (55:54)

It's fascinating to me that Estonia is so close geographically, so close to Finland. But a lot of the tastes, a lot of the ingredients and spices and the way of, of cooking, sometimes similar ingredients than what we have here in Finland. The Estonians do it completely differently. And I thought bringing something new to the Helsinki restaurant scene through this as well would be really interesting and something that really brings a new flavor, pun intended to the whole restaurant scene of the capital of Finland.

I (56:32)

So what does it all taste like? It was time to put Tar's menu to the test. Okay, so our table is full of lovely looking dishes. Denis, maybe you can introduce some of the dishes. Remember, this is radio, so we can't see how beautiful this looks.

J (56:52)

One dish. What is very important to me is the black bread, pork belly and wild capers sitting here. This looks beautiful and tastes amazing. Unusual taste. Second one, the influence from the noir, the baby tacos with the crispy duck and these two sea product dishes. It's little bit influenced from the Finland whitefish with new potato, some white fish, raw barbecue, sour cream and chopped onion.

I (57:26)

Okay, let's try this dark bread and pork belly and wild capers.

D (57:33)

Really nice.

I (57:35)

Dark bread is a little bit different from the one that we eat here. Yeah, I'll try the white fish next. Super nice. Thar may be the first restaurant by a famous Tallinn chef in Helsinki, but it won't be long until others follow suit. Combining the two food cultures makes for a dining experience that feels both familiar and surprising. The tens of thousands of Finns who take the two hour cruise to Tallinn each year to enjoy the city's vibrant restaurants restaurant scene can now enjoy some of it back home for Monaco. In Helsinki, I'm Petri Burzoff.

A (58:26)

Many thanks to Petri there. And it remains to be seen how much culinary rivalry this will spark between Tallinn and Helsinki. But possibly tar restaurant could put the bitch into bitumen. And that's all we have time for on today's show. Thanks to our producers, Chris Chermack, Hassan Anderson and Anita Riota, our researcher Daniela Brauer Smith and our studio manager, Elliot Greenfield, with editing assistance from Steph Chungu and Hunter Wang. After the headlines. There's more music on the way and the briefing is live at midday. In London, the Globalist returns at the same time tomorrow. I'm Georgina Godwin. Thank you for listening. With ubs, you have a truly global partner incorporating new technologies, innovative approaches and unexpected opportunities, leading you to insights that help answer the questions that matter. Delivered with passion, care and unmatched expertise. Because it's about rising with the dawn. Each day knowing that we can do even better. That's what banking is to us. Not just work, but a craft. UBS advice is our craft.