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- [00:04]
UBS Narrator
Craft matters in small ways, like how a coffee is brewed, and in not so small ways, like how your money is cared for. Which is why for 160 years, UBS has elevated banking to a craft, tailoring unique strategies that combine human expertise with the latest technologies, all happening across 24 time zones and and 12 key financial hubs. With you at the heart of it all, UBS advice is our craft.
- [00:38]
Emma Nelson
You're listening to the Globalist, first broadcast on 13th January, 2026 on Monocle Radio. The Globalist in association with U. Live from London, this is THE Globalist with me, Emma Nelson. A very warm welcome to today's program. Coming up, Mark Carney heads to China. With both Ottawa and Beijing stinging from the uncertainty of Donald Trump's tariffs, will the two traditional adversaries have more in common? Also ahead in the next 60 minutes, Marine Le Pen's appeal against her embezzlement conviction begins today. It could determine her chances of standing for and perhaps winning the French presidency.
- [01:49]
Murat Shekhar
Plus, we have to find new niche areas to sustain our profitability. And in order to achieve this, we look into getting new destinations.
- [02:01]
Emma Nelson
Why not? Content with a bumper year, Turkish Airlines ambition pushes ahead. Plus the papers, how fashion houses are changing, film and our younger music fans turning away from David Bowie. That's all coming up on THE Globalist. Live from London. First, a quick look at some of the other stories happening in today's news. President Trump has said any country doing business with Iran will be subject to a tariff of 25% on any business with the United States. The US Senator Mark Kelly is suing the defense secretary, Pete Hexeth and the Pentagon over threats to reduce his military pension, terming them unconstitutional. And the White House says that the Venezuelan authorities and the country's interim president, Delsey Rodriguez are being very cooperative with the United States. Stay tuned to Monocle Radio throughout the day for more on these stories. But first, Canada's Prime Minister Mark Carney is in China this week, ostensibly to restabilise ties between the two nations. They're arguably driven towards each other by Donald Trump's America first policy. But is that enough of a foundation for a genuine reset? And who holds a balance of power? Well, to tell us more, I'm joined now by Isabel Hilton, founder of China Dialogue and a visiting professor at King's College London's Lao Institute. And from Brussels, by Kate Bolongaro, who's the managing editor of Europe at MLEX and former Canadian government reporter. A good morning to you both.
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Kate Bolongaro
Morning.
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Isabel Hilton
Good morning, Kate.
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Emma Nelson
Let's begin with you because during the last stretch of the election campaign last spring, Mark Carney said that China was the country's biggest geopolitical risk. Has his mind changed?
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Kate Bolongaro
I think that there's a little bit more nuance in that, because the thing is that with everything going on in the United States with Donald Trump obviously has a direct impact on Canada geography. You know, we can't change that. So that is really something that's on the forefront of his mind. And China is Canada's second largest trading partner. So you do have to contend with Beijing in any case, because of how much trade is being done between the two countries, especially from Canada's perspective. So he clearly is trying to reposition that so that then he's able to have other options than just relying on the United States.
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Emma Nelson
So just bringing you in now, Isabelle, other options in the United States. How much does does is China actually looking forward to Mark Carney turning up?
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Isabel Hilton
Well, I think it's a bit of a notch for China on the cane as much of Donald Trump's activity is it opens opportunities for China to restore its image as the more reasonable superpower. And this is, I think, one such example. It's been nearly 10 years since a Canadian prime minister went to Canada, and as you know, there have been some very serious problems between them, including the kidnapping of two Canadians, Canadian citizens, the two Michaels, in retaliation for Canada executing an arrest warrant on behalf of the United States on the daughter of the Huawei founders. So this was a major standoff. A great deal of very kind of stiff ink was spilled. And actually, very recently, the commander of norad, the North American Defense Organization, pointed to, to a great deal more China, Russia, activity off the coast of Canada, you know, deemed to be worrying military maneuvers and so on. So there are still tensions. So it's a considerable score for China that Canada is that the Canadian prime minister is coming to Beijing.
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Emma Nelson
Nonetheless, Kate, Mark Carney is intellectually unbeatable in so many ways. And so to have someone like him turning up in Beijing and seeing Xi Jinping, does this give Canada that opportunity to present itself as arguably the reasonable and stable adult in the room in the West?
- [06:09]
Kate Bolongaro
Well, I think certainly it is remaining open for business sovereignty. Obviously, this is about strategic autonomy. That's the underlying goal is showing that, you know, Canada really does actually thrive in the multilateral world order that we've had since the end of the Cold War. And this is something that Canadians actively and Canadian officials actively promote abroad. They're keen to build those relationships and find ways to make it work for both sides. And obviously, the China Canada relationship has been tense for about a decade now. And I do think that this is another way for Canada to try to give itself other options. We've also seen a closer pivot to Europe. Mark Carney's first visit abroad as prime minister was, was to Europe, to the UK And France. So we do see there that there is a bit more of a shift to make sure that there are different options available when it comes to trade and international partnerships for a middle power like Canada, which is much more vulnerable in an era of hard politics.
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Emma Nelson
And indeed, staying with you, Kate, the line isn't perfect, but we will stay with you as long as we can. Is this more generally for Canada, an attempt to claim a bigger slice of the world stage?
- [07:20]
Kate Bolongaro
I think definitely it is an attempt for Canada to be able to try to show that it is a player on the world stage. I think a lot of the rhetoric surrounding Greenland and what we've seen happen in Venezuela, obviously Canada is in the Western Hemisphere. So this is something that is very concerning for Canada if the U.S. does act on Donald Trump's musings of perhaps Canada becoming the 51st state. So obviously people there and the government there are concerns concerned about all of that rhetoric coming from Washington. So we do want to see. So Canada wants to be seen as being a player on the international stage. It is part of the G7, and I think it wants to flex that muscle. And that's what we're seeing with all of these international trips and even some of the harsher rhetoric we've seen from Mark Carney about Trump's policy and the tariff issues that they have had between the two countries.
- [08:09]
Emma Nelson
So coming back to you, Isabel, you mentioned the idea that China will see this as another notch on the cane, but what will it actually try and do when it comes to the two men meeting and talking about business? Does China really see Canada as struggling subject of, dare we say it, abuse by Donald Trump from over, over the border, or does it actually see genuine opportunities here?
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Isabel Hilton
Well, the key opportunity that I think China will be looking for is to persuade Canada, in return for improving trade relations, to remove the 100% tariff that Canada put on Chinese electrical vehicles in 2024. This is a major export for China. China is looking to dominate, with some success, the global market in electric vehicles. The Canadian tariff was ostensibly to protect the Canadian auto industry, which has again suffered from, from Donald Trump's, from Donald Trump's tariffs. So, you know, there is important trade as we've heard, you know, Canada supplies oil to China, but its agricultural products, particularly canola, have suffered 100% reciprocal duty from China. So there's clearly kind of moves, you know, there are possibilities to improve the mood music and actually some practical questions. And for China, the optics of making up at this point with the United States closest neighbor and you know, hitherto ally are pretty important.
- [09:58]
Emma Nelson
And just building on that there, Kate, the optics for China are good, but the long term prospects for a relationship between China and Canada, which is more stable, what does that look like in terms of, for how Canada can capitalize it in, in, you know, as a long term strategy for Carney, but also what does it do in terms of the way that the world now shifts away from the United States and its America first policy?
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Kate Bolongaro
Well, it certainly does show that Canada is willing to come to the table. Even if there might be tensions between one partner such as China and the United States States, Canada is willing to sit down. I think Carney's trying to send that signal that Canada is open for business and I do think that it does bring in a sense a way to open that door for perhaps other countries. I know that for example, we, we, we hear a lot of talk about building relationships with India, for example. This is a country that Canada has been, you know, had some issues with over the last few years and Mark Carney has tried to make some steps there to repair that relationship. So I think there is an element there of trying to show that there is someone else who you can discuss with in North America and showing again that Canada is independent and wants to have its strategic autonomy and its interests and it's going to be there to protect its interests as well.
- [11:18]
Emma Nelson
Kate Bolongardo, managing editor for Europe at MLEX and former Canadian government reporter, thank you for joining me on the line from Brussels and thanks also to Isabel Hilton, founder of China Dialogue and a visiting professor at King's College London's Lao Institute. You're listening to the globalist.
- [11:38]
UBS Narrator
Craft is a matter of perspective, a unique outlook, an obsessive attention to detail. With UBS's Chief Investment Office Houseview, we're focused on identifying the latest investment opportunities and market risks to help you achieve your financial goals. So you get the big picture broken down into thought provoking insights delivered daily and curated by over 200 globally connected, locally active analysts. UBS banking is our craft.
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Emma Nelson
It's 8:11am in Paris, which is where we head now because the leader of France's far right national rally begins her battle to clear her name today and to pave the way for a spot in the next presidential race. Marine Le Pen was convicted last year of embezzlement. But if her appeal is success, the keys to the Elysee palace seem very much hers to lose in next year's elections. Well, I'm joined now by Florence Biederman, who's journalist and political analyst from Paris. Good morning, Florence.
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Florence Biederman
Good morning, Emma.
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Emma Nelson
Just remind us what Le Pen was convicted of doing.
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Florence Biederman
Well, she has been convicted to be at the heart of a system through which the money that was given by the European Parliament, for the European Parliament assistance, the European MPs assistance, was actually siphoned and given to the militants and the assistance of her own party, the far right party Rassemblement National. And this system had been created by her father. That means it lasted more than a decade. And the amount of money that was embezzled is like something like more than 4 million euros. So quite a system and quite something, actually.
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Emma Nelson
So she goes back to court today to lodge what is going to be a very long appeals process. This is not something that's going to be decided overnight. No.
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Florence Biederman
I mean, the trial will last something like a month, and then the judge will take their time and there won't be any decision before summer. But still, the process of appeal was really accelerated because it lasted. I mean, it was less than a year after the judgment, which is very, very quick for French justice, because, as you said, what's at stake is the fact that she can compete in the next presidential election, because during her trial, she consistently denied having done anything wrong. I mean, the judge decided that it was better she would be ineligible immediately, and that decision would be enforced immediately, not her sentencing to four years in jail to under electronic surveillance. But the fact that she's barred from election was immediate, and that's her problem. Now, whether she can change this, like whether the justice will decide either to clear her, which honestly seems very incredible, or not to clear her, but to change the decision on barring her from the presidential election now.
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Emma Nelson
So what is the likelihood of this happening? As you mentioned, there are two things at stake here, aren't they? There's a conviction and a sentence. But there's also this enormous question as to what effect this conviction and trial and now subsequent appeal is going to have on next year's presidential elections. Because the polls are suggesting that were Marine Le Pen to be eligible for standing as the leader of the National Rally, she would win.
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Florence Biederman
Well, I mean, the polls, you know, you don't even know who she will Compete with, you know, so that's the whole point. The other candidates, their name are not known, so it's a bit tricky to say she would win. The point is that if she's not eligible, then her younger assistant could be a candidate in her place. And he is also faring well in the polls. But again, it's really very early to give any such prediction. But definitely her party has a momentum. It's the first party in Parliament in number of MPs. So this is the golden occasion for her, you know, to compete and be elected. But that's, again, there is a big, big question mark.
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Emma Nelson
And looking more closely at the French judicial since the verdict was handed down, the judge has received death threats and has been placed under police protection. This has had an ugly effect on France.
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Florence Biederman
Absolutely. Because the reaction of Marine Le Pen was to deny she had done anything wrong and to accuse the judges, to accuse the justice of being political. You know, she was very, very strident about it, like, after she was sentenced. And I think it didn't have a good effect in the public opinion because. Because now it seems that her young assistant, Jordan Bardela, is even in a better position to win than she is. So she toned down completely. I think now she understood if she wants to, you know, change the decision on barring her from competing in the race, she has to. Maybe she acknowledged she did something wrong, I don't know. But, yeah, I mean, and she's not the first to accuse the judicial system of being political. Nicola Sarkozy, the former president, who has been also sentenced several times, pretend he's the victim of judicial harassment and of political decision. Unfortunately, it seems to be something every politician does in France now.
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Emma Nelson
Indeed. And we are in France, finds itself in a rather unusual position that we have. The former president, Nicolas Sarkozy, who was sent to prison, had two weeks in jail, wrote a book, book about it and then came out. And many people were saying, well, look, this is one system for one and one system for another. How is France reconciling itself with the fact that its politicians are finding themselves in the courts quite a lot at the moment.
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Florence Biederman
You know, I mean, what surprised me more than anything else is that still, Nicolas Sarkozy, for example, still has an aura, still is considered as an important political personality. I mean, there is a degree of tolerance in this country for corruption that is really, let's say, different than in other countries. For Marine Le Pen, again, like, her strategy didn't appear to have been successful, of course, with her party members. Yes, she will always be a victim. But she fares something like 30% in the poll. She would have to convince the other 70% where she, you know, found innocent or so it's not enough for her to pretend she's a victim. But again, like it seems she's changing maybe her strategy now in this new trial. We'll see. I mean, the trial will show us.
- [19:00]
Emma Nelson
Florence Biederman, journalist and political analyst, thank you so much for joining us on the Globalist. Still to come on today's program, But a decade after the death of David Bowie, we examine why his estate's fortunes are falling. Stay with us. One man deeply upset by that suggestion is Charles Hecker, Russia analyst and author of Zero Sum. Good morning, Charles. You've joined us for the paper review, but we're we cut a rug for about 10 seconds earlier that, didn't we.
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Charles Hecker
All I can say it's a very good thing. First of all, good morning, Emma. And the thing that I want to say is that it's a good thing that this isn't television because we were doing little dances in our chairs as we were listening to David Bowie.
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Emma Nelson
Absolutely. And long may that continue the bit where they can't see us at least.
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Sophie Monaghan Coombs
Right.
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Emma Nelson
How's life with you? What are you spotting in the papers?
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Charles Hecker
A slightly Trumpy start to the pay per view this morning. So apologies in advance for that, but these are a couple of pieces that you've been teasing since this the top of the broadcast. So we're gonna go straight to the Guardian and we're gonna look at a story that says BBC seeks dismissal of $10 billion Trump lawsuit over Panorama. Fight like hell. Clip and so what the BBC has done is before any of the procedures in connection with this trial takes place, the BBC is asking a court in Florida to throw it out. And what it's saying, among other things, is that Florida is the wrong place to have this trial and that Florida has nothing to do with the allegations against the BBC, which coming from the Trump administration, are that the BBC doctored a Panorama show and spliced together two quotes that were spoken hours apart that make it look like President Trump was summoning the attack on the capitol following the 2020 elections and the certification of the ballot. The BBC is saying that Florida, which is a Trump friendly jurisdiction, is the wrong place for the suit. The judge is the wrong person for the suit. There was no harm against Mr. Trump, and that since the show was produced by a company external to the BBC, the Trump administration has got the wrong.
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Emma Nelson
Folks in the docket, which is probably not great if you were the person who put together that piece. But what it also says is that it's quite simple that the president has failed to plausibly allege the BBC published the documentary with actual malice. And it one wonders now that there are so many legal arguments against the success of a defamation lawsuit insofar as was it published in the United States? Arguably not. Was there actual malice? And I think in the UK you have to demonstrate actual damage to the plaintiff, to the claimant. None of these things seem to ring true. Which then leads to the second question is why is Donald Trump doing this?
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Charles Hecker
Well, that's right. So one of the things that we have to return to on this topic is the extremely high bar that American libel law sets, and that is President Trump being one of the most public figures among public figures is virtually, you know, you could say almost anything that you want about him without, you know, getting in trouble for it because he is a public figure. And that is the test that, that US Libel law sets. I think, you know, why is he doing this? He's doing this because he's a fan of, of multi billion dollar courtroom flourish. And this was at the time designed to distract from that was going on around certain files connected with an individual whose name we shall not mention, but whose files haven't been fully released. And you know, this is his style. $10 billion is punchy and it draws attention and it makes, I suppose it's designed to frighten the BBC and to frighten anybody else who really feels like taking having a go at the president in the press.
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Emma Nelson
Okay, let's stay with Donald Trump. He got quite handy with his social media posts in the last few hours saying that countries doing business with Iran will be subject to a 25% tariff on trade with the US that includes effect immediate as well. I mean, everyone's still spinning trying to work out how this thing's going to work, but the two main economies that this is going to hit are India, but more importantly China, because it buys a lot of oil from Iran.
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Charles Hecker
Exactly right. We're looking at a story in the Financial Times this morning. And I think what this story does really is it points to the policy difficulties that the Trump administration is facing, its response to the popular rebellion underway as we speak in Iran. President Trump has said that he would take military action against the Iranian regime if it shot at any civilian protesters. Iran has already reported more than 500 civilians dead as a result of the protests against Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. And you know, what has Trump done? He's gone into his comfort zone when it comes to policy decisions, and that is announcing tariffs. Nobody knows how these will work and they're supposed to be effective immediately. We'll see about that. But, Emma, you're also right to point out that these 25% tariffs will land most severely on India and China. These are two countries where trade negotiations still hang in an unresolved balance and will not be very helpful to the US Mission of establishing stable trade relations.
- [24:42]
Emma Nelson
And stability is one of those things that we have been painfully bereft, bereft of now for an entire year. We see what's happening in South America with direct military intervention. But still the tariffs issue rumbles on, doesn't it? It absolutely hasn't gone away.
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Charles Hecker
That's right. And it won't go away until sometime in the coming year because tariffs are on the Supreme Court agenda. And the most important thing about the Supreme Court's decision is that President Trump is basing all of his tariff decisions, not just this most recent one, on the fact that they are emergency legislation. And it come in respons to what President Trump himself has labeled as a national emergency. And the Supreme Court is going to be looking at whether that is legitimate grounds for imposing tariffs.
- [25:27]
Emma Nelson
Let's move on to another area that Donald Trump has spoken about, which is the safety of London. And he's not been very nice about the London mayor, Sadiq Khan, who yesterday was asked about this, about the way that Donald Trump talks to him and he says, I feel like I'm 9 year old in the playground again. But one of the issues that Donald Trump raised was that London is not safe. Now, for people who live and work in London, the perception doesn't match with the figures.
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Charles Hecker
That's right. So thank you for using the word perception because one of the interesting things about this story is the difference between actual risk and the perception of risk. But what we're doing is we're looking at a story in the Times today, the Times of London, a little bit of local news about a global city that says, how safe is London? The Met police's claims fact checked. And Emma, you're absolutely right to point out that there is currently a sort of domestic and international storm around perceptions of safety in London. And everyone, every pundit you can imagine is having a go at Sadiq Khan and having a go at London for being a lawless jungle. And the Times debunks quite a bit of this while admitting that there are still a few problems. Murder is down and Murder is one of the lowest rates for comparable cities around the world. In 12 cities of comparable size and complexity to London, London is the last but one.
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Emma Nelson
And this is incredible, given the fact that a decade ago, knife crime and gang culture and the difficulties that deprived areas of London were facing was contributing to a serious problem. The problem of perception nowadays, though, is that if you have your phone stolen, if you have. If you're assaulted, if you have your bag stolen, if you have your watch stolen, the chances are is that the Met police will not actually even investigate it.
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Charles Hecker
Well, that's right. And the other concern is that these figures, including the skyrocketing figures on mobile phone theft, although they're dropping in the immediate past, that they are under reported because not every one of these makes it to a police report or makes it to an insurance claim or makes it to, you know, certainly to resolution. So knife crime, although violent knife crime, is down, mobile phone theft is a problem and shoplifting is a problem. Emma, I think one of the most interesting things about this story, just very briefly, is that if you live in London, and this is all itemized very clearly in the Times story, people who live in London overwhelmingly feel that the city is either very safe or fairly safe. If you live anywhere in the UK outside of London, you think that the city is a war zone. And there's a statistic here that shows that people living in Wales, by an overwhelming majority, feel that London is a dangerous city. And so I think we should all extend an invitation to everybody who's living outside of London to come into town. I mean, you know, all towns have what might be labeled as no go zones. And that's one of those sort of hot buzzwords that's used when you talk about London. But I genuinely feel that London is quite a safe city.
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Emma Nelson
And if you're listening in Wales, do come and say hello. We're all right. Finally, we have a bare, scant few seconds to talk about beef tallow. We were having a talk before we came in about what actually beef tallow is. I think in old language, it's beef dripping and it's the boiled down bit of fat from the cow that I then use occasionally to ro potatoes. That's about as far as I know.
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Charles Hecker
That's right.
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Kate Bolongaro
Beef.
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Charles Hecker
Beef tallow is the fat that you get when you cook fat. And we're talking about this because we're looking at a story in the New York Times. It says beef tallow, long a health pariah, rises to the top of the food pyramid. And this is of course, a reference to the fact that Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. The Secretary of Health and Human Services in the Trump administration, has completely inverted what is what we have long thought as thought of as healthy and unhealthy foods by turning the food pyramid upside down. And he's saying that we need to eat a lot more beef tallow. This is in spite of the fact that decades of research from doctors all over the United States say eat as little of this as possible. Apparently, it's tasty. Used in judicious amounts, it will give you phenomenal roast potatoes. And the New York Times also tells us that you can spread beef tallow on your face for its moisturizing effect.
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Emma Nelson
Excellent. And I bet you smell lovely. Charles Hecker, thank you so much for joining me in the studio. You're listening to THE globalist. Now here's a quick look at some of the other stories we're following today. President Trump has said any country that does business with Iran will be subject to a tariff of 25% on any business with units United States. In a post on social media, Mr. Trump said the tariffs would be effective immediately. The president of South Korea is in Japan for a summit aimed at highlighting the stability of their relationship. It comes amid an ongoing diplomatic dispute between Japan and China over possible military support for Taiwan. The president of Moldova, Maya Sandu, has said she would vote to reunify with Romania if a referendum were held. But she acknowledged most Moldova share her view despite Russian threats. And the BBC is to aim to have President Trump's 5 billion US dollar defamation lawsuit thrown out. He sued the corporation over the television edit of a speech he gave on January 6, 2021. The BBC says Florida lacks personal jurisdiction. It has, however, accepted the edit was misleading. This is the Globalist. Stay tuned. Now, Turkish Airlines saw out 2025 flying more than 96 million passengers. It marked a record for Turkey's national carrier with an expanded fleet and new routes for this year, the airline now flies to the most countries in the world. Well, Monocle's Tom Wed sat down with the chief financial officer and member of the board of directors and the executive committee, Marut Shekhar, to look ahead at what's in store for this year.
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Murat Shekhar
You know, aviation is actually intrinsically an industry that is prone to a lot of global risks, geopolitical risks, macroeconomic risks. Today we are operating in more than 350 destinations in 132 countries, which makes us the airline that is flying to more countries than any other airline. Having said this, then, it makes us the most prone airline to risks wherever is happening in the world. But on the other hand, it also helps us to mitigate those risks. For example, considering where we geographically are located in Istanbul, in our Istanbul hub, just in our neighborhood, there is a two actually war going on between Russia, Ukraine and then the Israeli war in the region. Yet we were able to mitigate these risks with redirecting the capacity in the Middle east and the Russia region to other places. And we have had the same experience through the pandemic too. When the Asia recovery from the pandemic was very slow, we were able to redirect that capacity to west, to Europe, to the United States and to all Americas, which helped us mitigate greatly that financial risk and it allowed us to sustain our profit margin. So going forward, and considering that we have quite sizable aircraft order book signed with Boeing and Airbus, we believe this scale is going to play in our favor. We are always given also that the market is very competitive. We have to find new niche areas to sustain our profitability. And in order to achieve this, we look into getting new destinations. Most recently we opened last year, we started flying to Chile, Cambodia, we increased our operation in Australia. And lastly we are trying to utilize our big competitive advantages like Istanbul, like Turkey, which is Turkey today is the fifth most visited country.
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Charles Hecker
It's an exciting time for Turkish Airlines. And you've mentioned the growth and your plan around the world. But how do you ensure that this rapid growth doesn't dilute your excellence, your brand reputation, your brand experience?
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Murat Shekhar
So this is definitely a challenge. Last year we just announced our traffic results. In 2025 we carried around 90, 92 million passenger and we probably will pass 100 million in 2026. So moving this large scale of people from one position to another and facing numerous challenges being the aircrafts getting older, we have maintenance issues, we have the ground aircrafts because of the engine issues and there are weather conditions, there are air traffic restrictions in certain geographies due to the congestions. So operations gets messier and messier, it gets more difficult. But in the meantime it's a very competitive market. And in order to sustain our profitability, our strong sustainable profit margins, we have to have our customers satisfied through their providing a good on time performance, through providing good connectivity, a good hospitality, a good catering services, a good launch experience, airport experience and everything. So there is definitely a trade off between these two factors. And when we decide on how much further growth we have to add to Turkish Airlines current scale, we do consider all of these. We believe personalization, meaning that providing a Personal experience to our customers are going to increase their loyalty to our brand and we do invest in that loyalty significantly. In the meantime, given the operation is growing and getting more complex, we are trying to utilize all sorts of feedback receiving mechanisms through our IFE system, through our web and mobile applications, through our our focus group studies so that our customers keep their loyalty with Turkish Airlines. And then we don't go back from the strong high rankings that we have attained.
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Charles Hecker
And thinking about hospitality and Turkish Airlines, the way that they bring business travel and premium cabins to your passengers, how important is that offering? How much does it contribute to the overall business?
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Murat Shekhar
So it is an area actually strategically we have determined that requires more focus and more investment. Currently about more than 20% of our revenues are coming from the business segment. Now we have projects to increase our products that we serve in the premium segment, to expand it merely business class to a more broadly understood as a premium segment. And we are trying to increase our passenger engagement, passenger loyalty in this particular segment because it provides the premium customer base are usually more loyal to their brands and they of course also are more profitable. Our current like business class load factors have increased more than 10% throughout the last three, four years because of the focus on that segment. And we have one of the best connectivity for which the business class and premium class segments. This is one of the key important items, you know, reaching their destinations on time and in a timely manner. Istanbul Airport today has one of the lowest connection time globally.
- [37:42]
Charles Hecker
And finally we're catching you at an exciting time. And you mentioned loyalty and the areas of the business you're investing in. Where do you see the most meaningful financial innovation in the airline industry?
- [37:54]
Murat Shekhar
There are actually a few areas where the industry is kind of pioneering, pouring a lot of capex to provide a competitive advantage. I believe one of them is and which is quite a sizable kind of a paradigm shifter project is modern airline retailing. It's a model in which commercial, operational and financial processes are all built through a single digital order. The change is going to be a crucial step forward in how we handle airline ticketing. Another big topic is the payments. Especially for network carriers like us serving in multiple different jurisdictions under different regulatory and tax regimes. Having a seamless payment system is very critical. We airlines are also investing in the this area heavily. EVO are being used more and more. This creates more new opportunities, how we generate cash income. Our commission expenses through the third parties are going to be decreasing. Direct sales channels are going to increase in importance. So that's another area. Payments and their relation in the all financial ecosystem. And third is of course digitalization. AI of course has an edge on the revenue side through personalization travel suggestions for revenue optimization, providing the best price options. But it also has a huge potential in the cost management, you know, increasing our efficiencies, which are going to be a more and more crucial going forward as the competition is going to get faster.
- [39:36]
Emma Nelson
And that was Monocle's Tom Webb talking to Murat Shekhar, who's the chief financial officer for Turkish Airlines. You with Monocle Radio, Time to look at the latest tech news. Isabel Hamilton is the UK Tech editor at Politico, joins me now in the studio. Good morning, Isabel. How are you?
- [40:00]
Isabel Hamilton
I'm fine, thank you.
- [40:01]
Emma Nelson
Good. Right, let's talk about the the big thing that's been occupying kind of like mid bulletin news reports in the last few days is what's been going on with Grok. But it is a deeply serious issue.
- [40:15]
Isabel Hamilton
Yeah. So for listeners who don't know, Grok is an AI tool that was made by a company called Xai. Xai is owned by tech billionaire Elon Musk, who you may well have heard of. And it is embedded into the social media platform known as X, formerly known as Twitter. And sort of over the Christmas period there was this big uptick in people using Grok, which is the tool that generates lots of AI things, but it can generate images and you can go onto Twitter and you can post on Twitter and you can tag Grok and you can say, edit this image for me. Over sort of the Christmas period and into the new year, news reports started to surface that there'd been a big uptick in the usage of this. And specifically people were using it to alter images of many women and in some redisturbing cases also children sexualizing them, stripping them down to bikinis, putting them in lewd poses. And there was like this deluge of this stuff. People kind of just picked up on the fact that they could do it, that there weren't any guardrails in place because lots of generative AI tools that make images and videos, they do have rules about how you can use them. And you know, there are workarounds that you can find. But it would seem that in the case of Grok, they're really, you don't have to find a workaround, it just does what you say.
- [41:31]
Emma Nelson
So where are the guardrails here? Because we had the UK government at least responding by saying the decision by X to make sure that that tool was only accessible to people who went behind a paywall The British government said this is effectively making it a privilege that you can actually upgrade in order to effectively degrade hundreds of people. What are the possible responses to this? Because if you have something which doesn't have checks and controls and you're dealing with AI, then we have a rather potent mix.
- [42:11]
Isabel Hamilton
Yeah. So here in the uk, it's all down to Ofcom, which is our media regulator. They announced yesterday that they'd opened an investigation under the Online Safety Act. Now, the Online Safety act is a relatively new bit of legislation. It was actually, you know, put together by the Tories, but it started to come into full effect, I think, middle of last year. And this is a really, really big test case for Ofcom, because up till now they've used the Online Safety act to sanction things like porn sites that, frankly, no one's heard of. They're small, they're like on the fringes of the Internet. This is the first big, you know, American social media company that everyone's heard of, that Ofcom actually has to stop and think, right, what do we do under the Online Safety Act?
- [42:54]
Emma Nelson
That's the uk. The European Union is really tough on this kind of stuff, stuff normally. But also other countries, Malaysia, Indonesia, they've gone as far as to.
- [43:02]
Isabel Hamilton
To block X. Yeah, well, you know, they've got their own laws about what's permits, what's permissible, and, you know, quite apart from the fact that this stuff is really misogynistic and in some cases really disturbing and, you know, might qualify as child sexual abuse material, you know, they've got laws to do with just sexual imagery in general. So they have put like, provisional blocks on X. And yeah, I mean, every country's got its own laws, right? Like you said, the EU has got its own legislation, the Digital Services act. And its tech chief, Hanover Koonin, said yesterday that they're going to use the full force of it. And there's a geopolitical context here as well. X is owned by Elon Musk. Elon Musk, after falling out of favor with the Trump administration over the summer, seems to be sort of coming back into the fold. And the EU is already in a fight with the US over how strongly it enforces its tech rules. So I think from the eu, they're signaling, no, we're not backing down. We're not going to give this guy who's got links to the administration an easy ride.
- [44:01]
Emma Nelson
Finally, quick note on Elon Musk and the fact that Apple and Google are joining forces that will see Siri, Apple's command thing powered by Google's AI model Gemini. What could possibly go wrong?
- [44:17]
Isabel Hamilton
One asks what could go wrong? Well, I think for Apple, it's probably quite a shrewd move. They were quite slow actually getting onto the generative AI train. And speaking of Elon Musk, he actually tweeted last night saying, oh, this hands Google a bit too much power, which kind of interesting to come from the richest man in the world, but like he's kind of signaling to, you know, people that he knows that might have influence that maybe this is a competition issue. And I think that's a really interesting.
- [44:44]
Emma Nelson
Point and we will see what happens. Isabel Hamilton, thank you as ever, for joining us in the studio. You're listening to the globalist.
- [44:55]
UBS Narrator
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- [45:32]
Emma Nelson
07:45 Here in London now, there seems to be an easy connection to be made between the worlds of fashion and cinema. An intensely aesthetic approach to both married with both large scale and minute detail make these two creative genres very happy bedfellows. And there seems to be an increased use of couture houses to not only create the costumes that we see in films, but also to be the driving force in movies productions. Well, to tell us more, I'm joined in the studio by Monocle and fashion producer and film buff Lily Austin. Very good morning to you, Lily. How are you? Nice to have you with us. So just explain to us a little bit more about this connection. What's happening.
- [46:09]
Lily Austin
Well, I mean, yes, the connection between film and fashion, as you said, is nothing new. I mean, look at at Breakfast at Tiffany's, American Gigolo with Richard Gere in Armani. More recently we've had Luca Guadagnino making a couple of films where Jonathan Anderson was the costume designer in Queer and challenges in 2024. So it's not new. But what is interesting is that recently lots of fashion houses have begun becoming producers for films. So Saint Laurent in particular has started Saint Laurent Production and has stated that their express aim is to fund and costume independent cinema and particularly auteur directors. So recently they produced David Cronenberg's film the Shrouds, Paolo Sorrentino's Patanope, and you might remember Emilia Perez, that film that was tipped to do well, in the awards season, but then, unfortunately, was mired by scandal. They also produced that.
- [47:07]
Emma Nelson
It's an interesting thing that what you're talking about here are not necessarily very elegant and glamorous films. And because when you talk about Breakfast of Tiffany's and when you talk about American Gigolo, the role of fashion of that period, actually, it almost becomes like a separate role that's. That's played within the film. But when you're doing something like the. The films that you mentioned, they don't necessarily seem to have a very fashiony feel to them. Don't do it. But it seems to be working as a sort of a marketing strategy, at least. Well, I think.
- [47:34]
Lily Austin
I think these brands, they do. They do bring a more kind of stylish edge to the films, definitely, because as well as funding, as I said, they. They're also in charge of the costumes for the most part. So you could think of it as a clear kind of marketing strategy about exposure. Right. It's an opportunity for these clothes, these. These designers to be seen on film. But I think what is interesting is if you're choosing independent films and these kind of. Of well respected, but lesser well known, less mainstream directors, actually, not that many people are gonna be seeing these films. These aren't big blockbusters. They're not dressing Superman or the superhero movies or any of these kind of established IP films. These are all new kind of stories. So I think it's not actually the primary focus is not about exposure. It's about cultural capital and aligning these brands with well established and respected names in another artistic form.
- [48:37]
Emma Nelson
Yeah, it's a difficult balance to strike, and it actually arguably detracts from what's in the film itself. Because if you think that, okay, Saint Laurent productions have done this and they'll be driven hard by Anthony Vaccarello, the creative director at Saint Laurent. I wonder how much time you'll be spending actually looking at the film or looking for touches from inside that define it as, let's say, a Saint Laurent film. So that said, is this just not a very clever bit of good news between this a very happy extension of a marriage between both film and fashion?
- [49:16]
Lily Austin
Well, yeah, like you said, I think that there can be a problem with it. The main issue is definitely if the clothing overpowers the film. I mean, one in particular recently. Father, Mother, Sister, Brother. That was also produced by Saint Laurent, the Jim Jarmes film that came out last year. And this is like a kind of kitchen sink family drama almost. You wouldn't expect the people in it to be wearing really expensive clothes. But they are and they look great in it. And I also noticed that with Pedro Almodova's the Room Next Door, that film is about a sister dying, essentially starring Tilda Swinton and Julianne Moore, quite a heavy subject. And they're wearing Bottega Veneta throughout it. And it's, I have to tell you guys, a gorgeous film. I would recommend it. It's beautiful to watch. But whilst you're watching it, you are thinking, everyone's so pristine. It does look like an advert for the brand. So I think it can be a tricky balance to pull off because you don't want the audience to feel like they're being marketed to in this direct way. But at the same time, both the fashion industry and the film industry are struggling. So if fashion brands are willing to give money, give support to directors, smaller films and directors that are struggling to get funding, and they're willing to do it for another purpose other than to get a return on the investment, financially speaking. Cause it's really not happening in cinema, then that's great.
- [50:41]
Emma Nelson
There are more subtle ways of going about this, though, aren't there? Because I think LVMH supplied some Tiffany necklaces for Frankenstein, the Guillermo del Toro film. I mean, there are moments where this can still be done quite elegantly.
- [50:54]
Lily Austin
Yes. And I've seen that film and I was really struck by the beautiful jewellery and then subsequently learned they had been Tiffany's. And I think it'll be very interesting to see on the red carpet over award seasons if Mia Gough, the star of Frankenstein, will be wearing any Tiffany's. I think it could be a great partnership to kind of keep that extension going.
- [51:10]
Emma Nelson
Well, let's talk a little bit more about the red carpet season. And the fact is that you always have stars who are associated with brands. That is no great surprise and has been the case for decades and decades and decades. But now that you have of luxury houses taking a much more direct stake in the way that films are. Are being produced, are we literally going to expect a certain star to always wear a certain brand because of the film that they're in, or does this mix this up a little bit on wonders?
- [51:41]
Lily Austin
Well, you know, I think that often it's. It's been a damage to brands when they've. Often brands have. Have kind of sponsored a particular actor and they've. And they've always been seen in this particular brand. And that can sometimes not always show the brand in the best light. Maybe if it's not a perfect match. But I think if there is this extension from film to the red carpet of brands working on a film and costuming it and then following that through to the red carpet, I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, we've kind of seen it on the red carpet. The season with Timothee Shyamala in orange to promote Marty supreme, that got a lot of headlines. And I think it's interesting because that was a big thing when Barbie came out a few years ago. Margot Robbie dressing in kind of Barbie costumes. But obviously that's a very mass film. This is the first time we've seen it with an awards season, more highbrow, more kind of well respected movie. So I think it'd be interesting to see if this kind of extends to these production houses that are powered by designers.
- [52:44]
Emma Nelson
And I wonder whether it will actually make sure that the declining cinema attendance, especially for art house films, will find themselves enjoying a little bit of a luxury spotlight.
- [52:54]
Lily Austin
Well, I mean, that is the big question is that it's interesting that this funding of films is happening because film is really, really struggling to be profitable. The film industry needs to make 9 billion per year. It hasn't hit that since before the pandemic. So it's been toug honest when I think about this. I think actually what would make more sense for fashion brands is to focus on tv because that is where people are really. They're hitting the zeit, guys. People are talking about it. You think of Stranger Things and how much people have talked about that. Film succession basically popularized the term quiet luxury. I think that's where they should go next.
- [53:30]
Emma Nelson
Lily Austin, thank you so much for joining me in the studio. You're listening to the Globalist on Monocle Radio. Sam Finally, a decade after his death, fans still feel keenly the loss of David Bowie. His music, his multitude of looks have been remembered this week with tremendous amounts of love, but not, it appears, when it comes to the amount of money his estate makes. I'm joined now in the studio by Sophie Monaghan Coombs Monocle's associate editor for culture. Good morning, Sophie.
- [54:25]
Sophie Monaghan Coombs
Good morning, Emma. Thanks for having me.
- [54:26]
Emma Nelson
Delighted to have you. What's happened?
- [54:28]
Sophie Monaghan Coombs
So there is an argument being put forward here that as you say it is this month marks a decade since Bowie's death. And in that time, Forbes produced a list every year of posthumous a posthumous celebrity rich list. And he appeared there in 2016, the year that he died. He appeared there the next year and once again in 2022 when his music rights were sold to Warner Chapel, which is part of Warner Music. But other than that, he's never appeared in that list. So there's this kind of question about how well his music has done since he's died compared to people like Prince, John Lennon, Bob Marley. Michael Jackson is the one that really dominates that list. He always does very well. Even since all of the scandal and the Neverland documentary that came about him, Michael Jackson has always done very well. So there is a little bit. Maybe there's. Maybe there's a sense that Bowie isn't doing as well as. That he's not making as much money and maybe his music isn't bringing in as many new fans. And what is being released is really catering to people that already know and love his work.
- [55:40]
Emma Nelson
So we need to ask the question a. Is there something wrong with David Bowe's music? Clearly not. Is there enough for it to be. To be listened to? Clearly not. He has decades worth of work, all of which is phenomenal. So one wonders what's happening with the estate itself. There have been accusations that it is prizing quality over quantity. What does that mean?
- [55:59]
Sophie Monaghan Coombs
Well, you know, there's kind of two ways that you can go about handling an estate. You can sort of say that everyone can use everything. You can be very open, or you can be quite guarded about who uses the music and who it's leased to. And I think there is an argument that Bowie's estate has really gone for quality over quantity. His song Heroes was used, just used in the final. The finale of Stranger Things. And so it went into the charts. It didn't do anywhere near as well as Running up that Hill the Kate Bush song did when it was used a few seasons ago. And, you know, there's things like there was a biopic in 2020 called Stardust, and it was forbidden by the estate to use Bowie's music, which is mega, you know, a biopic without the actual music by the person that it's about. But, you know, instead they leased the music to be included in a Brett Morgan documentary, Moon Age Daydre. And the biopic was, you know, really panned. So I think that was a good move. They, you know, the documentary did really well. It was quite sort of weird and wonderful. It wasn't this sort of straightforward film telling the story of his life. And I. So I think that was a good choice. So that is, you know, there is a question about whether it is quality over quantity, and I think that is probably a good thing.
- [57:18]
Emma Nelson
And the way that said the Way that we listen to music now has changed in. Even in the decade since Bowie's death. And Bowie was always a man who looked very, very much in forward. And the fact that we are now listening to our meeting on Spotify, on TikTok, et cetera, there's a thing called an algorithmic legacy, which is something that the estate is not prizing. Basically. It's not easy to find Bowie.
- [57:43]
Sophie Monaghan Coombs
Yeah, it's not easy to find his. His music doesn't necessarily come up when you're listening on Spotify. He has 22 million monthly listeners, which sounds huge, but it's, it's, it is less compared to people like John Lennon and Bob Marley. And, you know, I think in terms of the estate, they've, they've gone out with a lot of live albums, they've done a lot of best ofs, things like that, which aren't going to pull in new listeners. People aren't going to hunt out a live album on Spotify unless they know the studio version of that song already and they're really looking for it. So I think they haven't necessarily pulled in younger listeners. It's maybe catering to those who already exist, but things like the inclusion in Stranger Things was probably a really savvy move for.
- [58:27]
Emma Nelson
We've got about 10 seconds left.
- [58:29]
Lily Austin
But is there a danger here that.
- [58:30]
Emma Nelson
Bowie's music will be lost in all this?
- [58:32]
Sophie Monaghan Coombs
I don't know. I don't think so. As we said, it's the 10 years after his death and there's lots of other things that are happening which are promoting his music. The VA East Storehouse has just opened the David Bowie center, which I went. Which is really wonderful. And that's a permanent feature. Yes, at the VA at their storehouse out post. And then his child home, childhood home, will also in a very kind of unassuming street in Bromley which will become a museum. An immersive experience, apparently, which will, I think, also attract more people and keep his legacy alive.
- [59:07]
Emma Nelson
All of which are arguably quite elegant ways to remember him. Sophie Monaghan Coombs, thank you so much for joining me in the studio. And that's all the time we have for today's programme. The warmest of thanks to all my guests and to the producers Christy o' Grady and Anita to Riota. Our researcher was Anneliese Maynard and our studio manager was Lily Austin, with editing assistance by Elliot Greenfield. After the headlines. More music on the way. The briefings live at midday in London. The Globalist is back tomorrow. Hope you can join me for that if you can. But for now, from me, Emma Nelson, Goodbye. Thanks for listening.
- [59:40]
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