Tyler Brulee (3:55)

Good morning, Emma.

Emma Nelson (3:55)

Good morning, Tyler. One year down, three to go.

Tyler Brulee (3:59)

Indeed. And I'm just looking at Le Figaro, the main story. And Emma, just as you were setting this up, talking about, of course, you know, who has not been touched. Well, if you are certainly a wine producer maybe with a small biodynamic vineyard in somewhere in France or if, of course, if you're waking up and you are, Mr. Arnault, this morning, Le Figo's leading. And this is like the big breaking news story in France right now. Donald Trump announces his intention to post 200% tariffs on French wines and champagnes. Emma, can you imagine what our Chandra Kurt, our wine correspondent is going to have to say about that? And hopefully someone we can line up a little bit later on the program. But this speaks to. Yeah, here we are one year on. Who would have thought, of course, coming in. Yeah. I mean, certainly with indeed much fanfare, of course, much trepidation on the side of many others as well. But they would be in a place 365 days on. We were having conversations which are clearly they're not just broadsides. I mean, these are full frontal attacks on a key ally, a key trading partner, of course, a nation that has counted itself very much as a friend and ally of America. And now you're gonna have potentially 200% on your Krug.

Emma Nelson (5:21)

Indeed. And it is. And the way that Le Figaro has talked about it today, said the axe has fallen once again, it is, Tyler, that element of surprise which has taken everybody by surprise for the last 365 days.

Tyler Brulee (5:35)

Well, and this is, of course, as we went into this last year, and maybe it was, you know, in the week or days, you know, running up to the inauguration, I think many of us were reflecting on exactly what happened the first time around under, you know, the first administration, which was this dominance, this dominance across, you know, 48 months, four years, where the entire news agenda was, was dominated by whatever Trump woke up and thought that morning, whatever his secretary of defense might have had on his mind. And we're in the same place. I mean, if you, you just have to look, of course, stories, key issues around the world that attempt to bubble up to the surface. It is our job, of course, as a news organization to shine a spotlight, to deploy people, to go and tell other stories. But it's very, very. Whether it is, it's. It's a geopolitical story, it's economic, it's cultural, it is remarkable how much the hands of Washington and indeed, the hands, of course, President Trump touch everything. And we have this dominance of the news agenda. And, you know, it's very difficult for an Argentina, a Papua New guinea, even a South Korea to get much airtime.

Emma Nelson (6:50)

Let's bring in our senior news editor Chris Chermack at this point to talk about this very subject. Chris, the idea that trying to keep up has been one of newsroom's perpetual sort of challenges from the moment that the starting gun was fired this time last year. But I remember when we were going into this and someone said to me, right, in term one, you took Donald Trump literally, but you didn't take him seriously. This time around, we have to take him both literally and seriously.

Chris Chermack (7:22)

And I think there's a very key reason to that and kind of jumping off what Tyler was saying there. One of the differences with 2016, I think, is, yes, back in the first term, everyone was paying attention to what Donald Trump had to say, but there was also an opposition to Donald Trump that was crystal clear and loud. There was an opposition within his administration to what he was doing, those sort of guardrails that were set by members of his own administration. And there was an opposition without whether that was a loud Democratic Party or he even protests the MeToo movement. All of these things that sort of came out of Donald Trump's first term. All of that has been relatively lacking this time around. Emma. So Donald Trump, I think, has spent a year testing the limits of what he can do for America abroad, what he can do for conservatives of America within the country, and he's testing where the resistance will come from. Donald Trump respects strength, he admires strength. He almost needs to respect you as an adversary for standing up to him before he backs down. And that is, I think, something we've seen time and time again this year. You look at a couple of examples of, say, China standing up to him, threatening tariffs. Back at the United States, Trump has backed down and made a deal. Even Canada is an interesting example of that. Mark Carney, loud in his opposition, got him elected. Trump kind of backs down stakes, takes a step back from Canada. If you give him what he wants, he keeps taking all the way to Greenland today.

Emma Nelson (8:55)

Tyler bringing you back in. I mean, the whole premise for the last year has been everybody has to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. But are there areas where things actually have found stability? I mean, for example, you just need to think about when Donald Trump was going to impose strict tariffs worldwide. The markets turned around to him, said, don't you dare do that, and he backed down. And as a result, there have been areas, pockets of stability.

Tyler Brulee (9:19)

Well, if you only have to look at whether it's the Wall Street Journal, the nzz, of course, everybody having a look back right now, you know, let's say that the last 12 months told in 17 charts, 5 charts, etc. And of course, you know, there are pockets where we have seen a level of stability, of course, stability, which is of course working for the US And I think, as Chris was saying as well, you know, this, you know, this is, is certainly an administration we've seen, of course, in the last 24 hours, these, this, these exchange, these, these bizarre exchanges where, you know, suddenly, you know, everything, you know, pants are down, underpants are down. I mean, it's like, it's like just throw everything open. And so we got this correspondence, of course, between, between Washington and Oslo. We now have correspondence between Paris and Washington where just whether these are whatsapps, whether these are, these are emails that are just being thrown out completely in the open. And if I go back to, of course, Norway, there's this sense of, yeah, Donald Trump, you know, feeling more than a little bit irked. And of course, roundly blaming Norway, of course not, of course not the Nobel foundation, but Norway for not awarding him the Peace Prize. And of course, we're led to believe this might have something to do with this notion of, well, you know, maybe peace is not a priority. It's a place, as he says that, that he would like to get to, but maybe, you know, a peaceful world is not top of the agenda for him. So this is, I think this brings back to the point that we have yet pockets of stability. Those pockets of stability have to, you know, ensure that they go back to the 50 states that they go back to, that they go back to Washington, and not that we necessarily have a calm Pacific or a calm Atlantic.

Emma Nelson (11:01)

Chris, you've written about this in today's Monocle Minute. And there's this idea that, well, it's the big question being raised, isn't there, that is there an actual plan here or is Donald Trump acting on dangerous whims? Because if you were to look at what's happening in the last couple of weeks, you could imagine him checking the globe for natural resources. Oh, look, Venezuela, oh, look, Greenland. And thinking, I want them.

Chris Chermack (11:24)

Well, absolutely. But I think there is a rhyme and reason to that. He is looking for resources. He is looking for things that will make America stronger. But as I said at the outset, I think at the same time, there is a rhyme or reason in that when he faces significant opposition, he takes a step back. And I think that's what you're going to have to watch for. When it comes to Greenland, for example, if Europe meets his strength and says that they are going to defend Greenland at all costs and make a point of that, that's the kind of thing that might lead Donald Trump to back down. I mean, even as Tyler was saying there, he's talking now about not necessarily being about peace. He wants to see streng. That's what's going to lead to him backing down even in his first term. We saw that with Kim Jong Un in North Korea. If you're loud enough and ironically, if you escalate, it can lead to a better relationship with Donald Trump down the line. Once he sees that, you're standing up for yourself. And one final comment on that, to talk about the stability side, financial markets, I think have been a fascinating element of that because they have had ups and downs, but they've also arguably brought that stability because Trump watches, say, the financial markets, if they're going down dramatically, automatically, it leads to a course correction from him. So he does want some element of stability. And he's watching certain signals for that stability and how far he can push and what's going to hold him, bring him back into the line. Financial markets have been one of those things that have brought him repeatedly back into line.

Emma Nelson (12:53)

Monocle senior news editor Chris Chermack in the studio. Thank you. Tyler Brulee over in Studio 4 in Zurich. He'll be coming back later. But for now, thank you very much indeed, Tyler. And just to let you know Monocle Radio is in Greenland for the daily this afternoon. Evening, no matter where you're listening. Andrew Muller will be hosting from Nuke. We'll be crossing to Davos for a live program for the briefing. Carlotta Rebelo is your head, is your host for that. And Chris's Monocle Minute is available to read right now on our website. You're listening to the Globalist with me, Emma Nelson. It's time now to head to Studio 4 in Zurich. Juliet Lindley, journalist, broadcaster and Vatican Analysis, is standing by. A very good morning to you, Juliet. How are things from where you are?

Juliet Lindley (13:48)

Good morning, Emma. Well, these days here in Zurich, it's very much a key transit hub for CEOs, politicians, journalists. They're all making their way up the mountain to the World Economic Forum. And I'm pleased to say, Emma, that one of them has joined me in the studio this morning. She's a highly respected journalist en route to Davos. She's Gunilla von Haak, foreign correspondent for the Swedish newspapers Svenska Dagbladet. Gunilla, you're passing through Zurich on your way to Davos, and we're so lucky that we've caught you just after you stepped off the train and about to step onto another train. You've covered the World Economic Forum many times, I think you said six times over the last years. We're all feeling a bit shaken these days, especially with all the geopolitical turbulence.

Terry Stiazny (14:32)

To you.

Juliet Lindley (14:33)

How different does this year feel?

Gunilla von Haak (14:35)

This is very, very charged. I feel like this is maybe the most important World Economic Forum I've covered. I feel like everyone is on their way up to this mountain trying to solve a huge geopolitical crisis that we have today. It's very critical. It is good in a way, too, because everyone is on their way up to Davos to actually try to have a dialogue, try to solve this impasse that we are in right now, because.

Juliet Lindley (15:06)

It is, in fact, important to meet face to face. It is important to bring together the leaders of the political business worlds and so on. And as you were saying this, now more than ever, it's important. Relations are really pretty touchy between the US and Europe. How is it looking from Stockholm? How does this new power realignment look? There's so much geopolitical uncertainty. There's so much influx. What are your viewers seeing and what is the leadership in your country seeing?

Gunilla von Haak (15:35)

Well, there is a big worry and also anger. Anger with. With Trump and the way he's dealing with the world and threatening the world, threatening eu, Our prime Minister was very upset yesterday, saying that the U.S. trump, you can't blackmail us. I can see today the markets are down to 2 and a half percent. Export companies are worried because more tariffs. They already have 15, adding 10%. This is, you know, we're very dependent on the export industry and the US is an important market still. So people are. Companies are worried, people are upset. No one understands why Trump is doing this. We are all in NATO.

Juliet Lindley (16:18)

There's a lot of antagonism. What is your view on how prepared Europe is, the leadership? How. How should Brussels respond? How should the leaders respond? What's your point on that?

Gunilla von Haak (16:32)

It's very difficult and I feel like everyone is waiting right now what to do, because some people say, like Macron has been very tough, there should be punitive action, punitive tariffs answered with the same message that Trump sends others, like Keir Starmer. Well, UK is not in the EU now, but he wants to have more of a dialogue, negotiated solution, as well as Meloni in Italy. So the EU is not really united on how tough we should now be on Trump. A lot of people are saying, be really tough now. Tariffs stop the US from accessing their military bases, stop buying American weapons. I mean, there's a whole list of things that the EU could do. But there is a fear and a worry. If the UN Euro hits back really hard, what will Trump then do? Will he hit back even harder? And we need. We need the us. We need the US not least for the war in Ukraine, to stop the war in Ukraine, because we have Russia close to our borders and we need the US to as a guarantor against Russia.

Juliet Lindley (17:44)

You have Russia very close to your borders, closer than we do here in Switzerland. I'm wondering, you mentioned the anger that Swedes are feeling. If you look at the Swedes and you look at the readers of the Svenska Dark Blade, for instance, what do you think they misunderstand the most? You're a foreign correspondent for them. You're telling them you actually don't just cover Switzerland, you're based in Geneva, but you cover all the hotspots if you want. What do you feel? Which are the conflicts that they least seem to get? Or what is it that you would rather they could understand more clearly, thanks to the witness that you are bearing through your work and your job?

Gunilla von Haak (18:22)

I think they are sometimes more living in a bubble. I think the media is very dominated by often an Anglo Saxon view, and they don't get a lot of other views from Asia, from Latin America, from Middle east, and for that reason it's so important that we go out as foreign correspondents and can bring the voices from these other conflicts and war and crises back to my readers because otherwise all they're going to read is Trump, EU and what's happening in Sweden.

Juliet Lindley (18:59)

It's paradoxical, if you want, that so many big news organizations have been shutting down their foreign bureaus. I don't know the specifics about the numbers within your company, but in general, now more than ever, surely your role as a foreign correspondent is so critical.

Gunilla von Haak (19:18)

I really believe so. I think it's a very important moment right now that we don't do more cut downs, that we don't just rely on ChatGPT and to do summaries in different ways with different search engines. We need to have the correspondence going out there. I see. When I've been to North Korea, I've been to Russia, I've been to Ukraine, I've been to Syria, I've been to Colombia, I go out there, I meet people, I go into families, I go in the field, I feel this. I can smell the fire, I can smell the refugee camps, I can see with my own eyes how people are living and I can have the conversation with real people, with normal people, with average people in these conflicts and wars. And those are very important to bring home. Those are things you don't get if you only have news desks doing summaries about the general news situation from home desks.

Juliet Lindley (20:17)

So crucial. And coming back to here now, today we're here, you're heading up to Davos on the next train up. What are your expectations?

Emma Nelson (20:26)

Hmm.

Gunilla von Haak (20:26)

Well, expecting, I think, more hoping that there will be some kind of walk back from this very tense situation we are in right now. Today we'll hear Macron speaking, Von der Leyen, and we're going to have tension building up probably. And then Trump comes tomorrow, more tension building up. And then hopefully, after meeting over coffees and dinners and drinks, they will walk back from this brinkmanship and we will have a better, calmer world.

Juliet Lindley (20:54)

Let's hope there'll be a defusing. I don't think you're the only one hoping that as we all head up the mountains. Gunilla von Hal, foreign correspondent for Svenska Dagbladet, thank you so much for joining us here. Here in Studio 4 in Zurich. Run and cut your train. Back to you in London, Emma.

Emma Nelson (21:10)

Thank you, Juliet. We'll be coming back to you a little bit later for a bit of a roundtable from Studio 4 in Zurich, that's Juliet Lindley. Journalist, broadcast and Vatican analyst holding the fort in Zurich.

Markus Schergl (21:22)

Still to come though, I'm Andrew Muller and I'll have some first impressions from Nuke as Monocle Radio's team arrives in Greenland for a week of special programmes.

Emma Nelson (21:32)

Andrew has headed to Greenland, a nation currently being competed over by the us but still very much its own place with its own people. Stay tuned. This is the globalist.

UBS Narrator (21:46)

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Emma Nelson (22:21)

Let's continue with today's news Newspaper Review. Joining me is Terry Stiazny, author of Believable the Misfits who Fought Churchill's Secret Propaganda War. How are you, Terry? Welcome to the studio. Good to have you with us. Now I sort of tweak, sort of tweaked a little bit today's news Newspaper review because we're not going to start with a newspaper. Terry basically ran in, just going look at what Donald Trump has just posted. So I suppose we have to, we have to indulge him. It's very, very serious what he's saying.

Terry Stiazny (22:51)

I think you know, particularly because given all the meetings that there are likely to be this week and the way that Europe and everywhere else is reacting, the fact that Donald Trump seems to have gone on another early hours truth social absolute rant is certainly worth talking about. And his latest post, I've got to describe it to you, is an AI generated image of the Oval Office with Donald Trump sitting there alongside Keir Starmer, Emmanuel Macron, Giorgio Maloney, Ursula von der Leyen, other European leaders. And what he, in this fake image is showing them is an easel with a map of, of the Western Hemisphere where there's a US flag not only on the United States, but also on Canada, Greenland and Venezuela. And Donald Trump is sort of confidently demonstrating this new map of the world to the leaders of Europe. And I think that just shows sort of where his mind is at the moment. And the French press in particular are already picking up on another thing that he has just posted on his stream, which is the private messages from Emmanuel Macron to President Trump which have been sent over the last couple of days. And I'll, I'll just read that out for you because it has been confirmed by the Elysee that this is actually the genuine message that was sent by the French president where he said in English, my friend, we are totally in line on Syria. We can do great things on Iran. I do not understand what you are doing on Greenland. Let us try to build great things. And then Emmanuel Macron goes on to offer to set up a G7 meeting after Davos in Paris on Thursday afternoon, saying he'd invite also the Ukrainians, the Danish, the Syrians, the Russians in the margin. Let's have a dinner together in Paris together on Thursday before you go back to the U.S. emmanuel. So I think, you know, this shows what other leaders are trying to do in order to, to try and deal with Donald Trump. And I think they've got to assume now that anything they say basically is going to end up in the public domain. But also in, in his most recent remarks, Donald Trump also threatening Emmanuel Macron saying he's basically going to impose, in addition to the tariffs he's talked about earlier in tariffs of 200% on French wine and champagne. And this is not only to do with Greenland. In, in Trump's words, this is because Emmanuel Macron doesn't want to join his, his board of peace.

Emma Nelson (25:17)

Our editorial director, Ty Barri was talking about that. The, the fact is that, you know, blunt instruments are being used, but I think most of us are absolutely agog that the private messages between the two leaders of some of the most powerful economies, countries in the world are being splashed all over the Internet.

Terry Stiazny (25:32)

It, Yes. I mean, I think it's, it's, it's fascinating because it is very interesting. Normally when you get the, the readouts of calls or messages between world leaders, and I've noticed it recently with the ones that Keir Starmer has been posting. It's very noticeable what they're not saying with Donald Trump. I mean, the most recent call between Starmer and Trump, Starmer said, just like what he is doing is wrong. And normally those readouts have some kind of, and we agreed to keep in touch and we, we emphasize the importance of the special relationship and all these kind of form of words, and it's just clear that absolutely none of that is happening at the moment. And although, you know, Macron's giving his best efforts to try and say, let's do great things, let's have a dinner, we don't know what Donald Trump's reply to that was. And it just seems to be that he's posting it to try and say, look, they all still want to be nice to me, when you can see that they're just trying anything possible to kind of talk him down after that letter, from the letter that he sent to the Norwegian Prime Minister as well.

Emma Nelson (26:27)

Thank you for that. Right, let us move to other stories. At the moment we have three days of mourning in Spain being held.

Terry Stiazny (26:34)

Yes, that's right. After the terrible, terrible train crash near Cordoba, Spain is going to have three official days of mourning. The Prime Minister has already been to visit the scene where at least 40 people have died. There are still some people. Unidentified. Work has been going on overnight to try and identify not only the people that died, but also to try and work out exactly, exactly what has happened. Because this seems to have been such a severe accident, you know, and very unexpected. The King and Queen of Spain, El Paisa reporting, are also going to, going to visit the site. They've changed their plans so that they can travel to the site and then go and go and visit people there. Thank the people who are working on, on the rescue operation. Presumably also likely to visit some of the, the survivors in hospital. But I think, you know, it's just a sign of you how big this is for Spain that the country, you know, wants to, wants to talk about this and wants to really mark what happened.

Emma Nelson (27:40)

Let's move on to an article in the Guardian here in the United Kingdom about the ongoing debate as to whether under 16 should be banned from being able to use social media. All eyes on Australia at the moment and other people are now looking to see if they should.

Terry Stiazny (27:57)

Yes, very much. And the British government seems to be really quite following what has happened in Australia. But the Prime Minister, Kerma has been said in the past he's been open to the idea of a ban on social media for under 16s, but he's been saying he wants to see more evidence from Australia, where they have only just brought in the ban in December, before he makes up his mind. But the government's now said that it wants to have a consultation on this. And of course there's lots of, of different views. You know, is it the social media, it's itself that is at fault? Should there be more restrictions on what can actually be posted that young people can see, you know, talking about the possibility of, you know, there's been the possibility of banning X because of its creation of abuse images, essentially, which the government has so far been reluctant to do. But it does seem to be that Keir Starmer has been under pressure quite a lot from his own mps wanting the government to go further on this, presumably because of the concerns of a lot of parents who would like to have a, a backup from the government to say, you know, their children should, should not be exposed to this.

Emma Nelson (29:04)

And finally, let us have a little bit of joy in today's program. I think we need some. And it's courtesy of an Austrian cow called Veronica.

Terry Stiazny (29:12)

This is an absolutely joyous story, I have to say. And if you've ever seen a Far side cartoon called Cow Tools, which I will send you later, there is the Veronica, the cow who lives in beautiful place in Carinthia called Geiltal. And this is kept, she's kept as a pet cow and her owner noticed she occasionally played with sticks and used them to scratch her body. So she started playing with pieces of wood, worked out how to scratch herself, is extremely obviously a very, very clever cow. And then Viennese scientists have leapt onto this and said, wow, look, there's a cow using an actual tool.

Emma Nelson (29:48)

And the.

Terry Stiazny (29:48)

Dr. Mascaro at the University of Veterinary Medicine, we got everything ready and jumped into the car to visit. So they went to, to visit Veronica, they filmed her, they did a series of, of field trials showing that she could pick up a broom and use it to scratch herself in different ways according to where, where she felt itching and, and they are absolutely delighted because although we've seen chimps, dolphins, other creatures use tools, no one has yet noticed a cow using tools. And this Veronica is a sort of revolution in modern science.

Emma Nelson (30:22)

What I love about Veronica is not only is she a delicious sort of creamy coffee coloured cow which are the best, but she uses the different ends of the brush depending on where the itch is. So if she's trying to sort her rump out, she uses the bristly end. But the more sensitive areas, just get the stick.

Terry Stiazny (30:40)

Yes. She's brilliant.

Emma Nelson (30:41)

She's. We love Veronica. Thank you so much for bringing Veronica into the studio. Well, not literally. Terry Stiasney, author of Believable Lies and Misfits, who fought Churchill's secret propaganda war. Thanks. Thank you. You're listening to the Globalist on Monocle Radio. A quick look now at some of the other stories we're following today. The lower house of Australia's parliament has voted to approve a national gun buyback programme and institute new checks on firearm license applications. The move comes a month after the deadly shooting at Bondi Beach. The three top Roman Catholic archbishops in the United States have warned America's role in confronting evil around the world is under exam. In a rare joint statement, the Cardinal Archbishop said events in Venezuela Ukraine and Greenland raised basic questions about the use of military force. The Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez has declared three days of national mourning for the victims of Sunday's high speed train crash. On a visit to the scene, he promised a transparent investigation into the cause of the disaster. The number confirmed dead has risen to 40, and Japan's minister for tourism says a record number of foreign visitors came to the country last year. But the number of Chinese tourists has recently fallen sharply as a result of a diplomatic spat between the two countries. This is the Globalist. Stay tuned. We'll be heading back to Zurich in just a moment, our editorial director Tyler Brulee standing by. But for the last half hour, we've been talking about a year of Donald Trump and the latest unexpected crisis. To send swathes of the old order into a tailspin is his desire to own Greenland. And we have a team standing by in Nuuk. They'll be stationed for the entire week. Among them, Monocle's contributing editor Andrew Muller. He'll be presenting the Daily for us every single day this week. And he sent us this dispatch.

Markus Schergl (32:43)

In a sane world, there would be little reason for the world's news media to pay Nuuk, capital of Greenland, much heed. In this world, it's actually pretty difficult to trudge a few blocks of Nuuk's snowy streets without ending up in the background broadcasts of half a dozen news networks. Apologies to everyone whose shot we've ruined. We're all here, of course, because Greenland is the present focus of the 51st state fantasies of US President Donald Trump. Though this has been rumbling for a while, the pitch has escalated noticeably in recent weeks. First impressions are that the locals still seem more bemused than alarmed, though this past weekend perhaps half the population of Nuuk turned out to demonstrate that the signs on the placards and hoodies had it Greenland is not for sale. In Nuke for Monacle Radio, I'm Andrew Muller. Back to you in London.

Emma Nelson (33:48)

Thank you, Andrew. And stay tuned to the Daily all this week from Greenland and across Monaco Radio for a series of dispatches from Andrew and our foreign editor Alexis Self. You're listening to the Globalist. 8:33am In Zurich, which is where we head back to now. Joining US from Studio 4 is among others is Monocle editor editorial director Tyler Brulee. Welcome back, Tyler.

Tyler Brulee (34:15)

Thank you very much, Emma.

Emma Nelson (34:16)

We mentioned in the paper review with Terry Stiazny a moment ago the fact that it is now being made public that Emmanuel Macron's private text messages to Donald Trump are Now making it all. Well, the last time we checked they've hit the straits time so they've gone all over place the the world.

Tyler Brulee (34:30)

Indeed. And, and not only that, I mean it is interesting, we were just watching Donald Trump just actually getting off Air Force One over on the US east coast. But I think one of the other interesting stories which is actually just breaking now concerns the Chagos Islands. And this is another complete flip flop. This, of course the story goes back to this is it's a UK dependency, it will be handed over to, to Mauritius, but there will be about 140 year lease will remain on Diego Garcia. Now of course, anyone who is sort of a geopolitical watcher, anyone who of course has tuned into any conflicts in the Gulf will know that Diego Garcia is an incredibly important staging base. It is a very large arms depot administered by the UK but it is an incredibly important base for the US military. So, you know, yes, both the secretary of state, Mr. Rubio, Donald Trump were very happy when this happened. They said this was a very sort of clever deal and it just sort of brings to the fore that islands are very much in vogue in terms of, yeah. Being part of the acquisition trail for Donald Trump. So this is something which of course has just erupted right now. And he talks about just the stupidity of the deal suddenly. So maybe along the way someone and perhaps wrote that statement for him that he was very happy about it. But here we see again, this is, this is, you know, and he talks, it's quite candid, his attack against Keir Starmer, the British government, the stupidity of why they of course have gone ahead with this. And it's very much in line with the Greenland story. And listen, we're talking about a very small atoll right now. The US already occupies it. So it would not surprise me if we see a call sometime by the end of today that Donald Trump wants to of course make this a US territory. So just a number of things that of course we're following which, in which again, we talk about sort of busy news days all the time, but this is a very sort of already busy news hour.

Emma Nelson (36:33)

Yes, we're rolling with the punches on the program today and we have the quote from Trump is shockingly our brilliant NATO ally, the UK is currently planning to give away the island of Diego Garcia for no reason whatsoever. That last second in capitals tones, it's getting a bit pointy, isn't it? The tone coming from different leaders. Thierry Stiasney mentioned the fact that, you know, Keir Starmer talking about Greenland publicly said Trump wanting Greenland is plain wrong. It's almost as if the niceties are falling away. I mean, the Macron texts are nice, but they are direct. And one wonders whether the gentle words which usually keep the world quite smooth and quite calm might just be sprawling away. So likely.

Tyler Brulee (37:20)

Well, I think there's a whole documentary series that we could develop or certainly put into production about this. Because if you, if you look back, rewind over the last week, I would say the last 10 days, and it's not doesn't just concern, of course, global affairs, it also concerns domestic affairs, United States as well. The language that we saw coming out of Minneapolis, Minnesota, in general, the tone, the profanities from the mayor, likewise for many other people around Trump giving people the finger going through a factory. There is this also just this erosion. I think this really is a story. What happened to civil conduct? What happened? We talked about niceties, but also being pleasant. And I think that this opens up a whole new world. It's not just a diplomacy question. But, you know, we were commenting on this recently as well. What does this mean for, for a next generation of negotiators, a next generation of business owners? Is this how you conduct yourself across the table? We already know that it's very, very difficult for families to come together without someone storming out. Because I don't want to listen to your point of view. What does that mean for business? What does that mean for forwarding negotiations? That idea of compromise. And we sort of see that this idea of just sort of storming the door or I'm going to take over your factory, whatever it may be, it opens up, you know, and what this is going to mean, I think from sort of a generational perspective as well, because I think a lot of business leaders, doesn't matter whether you're sitting in the United States or the Philippines, this is going to pass as acceptable behavior when it comes to conducting yourself in not just, I said, not just a diplomatic environment, but in a business environment.

Emma Nelson (39:02)

And indeed, I mean, just briefly touching on the tone that those who are reporting it must adopt as well. I mean, we have had a breathless, what, 38 minutes of live radio just keeping up with what is going on in the last 45 minutes. But that idea that the considered conversation is something which is going to have to fight harder to retain its place.

Tyler Brulee (39:22)

Absolutely. And it was interesting, I think, going back to our interview a little bit earlier where Juliet Lindley was talking to the correspondent from Svenska Dogblotted, this idea of being witness, the notion that we have to send out journalists that we have to make sure that they're all budgets to. To have people on the ground, to deploy people at a moment's notice, but also, as you're saying then, to have a conversation, to be able to, of course, analyze these topics as well. And then it can't just be this set, steady stream of just, you know, fast response to, of course, you know, various tweets or various, you know, blasts of, you know, 70 to 100 words that come out on various social media platforms.

Emma Nelson (40:06)

Talking of cool and considered words, let's bring in Juliet Linley standing next to you in Studio four. Welcome back, Juliet.

Juliet Lindley (40:13)

Thank you, Emma. Here I am.

Tyler Brulee (40:14)

I have to just paint a little bit of a picture because. And I think we'll come to the story in a moment, or maybe we're going to do it now. Juliet is a vision in red. Not head to toe, but she has a very jaunty jacket on in red. And this is. It's really, it's out of respect. Homage to Valentino, of course, the designer who died at age 93. Yes. Yesterday in Rome. And, and Juliet, you're looking very fetching and I think, again, very respectful to show up for radio. We're not even doing a TV morning show that you've done this in honor for. For Valentino Garvani Rosso.

Juliet Lindley (40:49)

Valentino.

Chris Chermack (40:50)

Yeah.

Juliet Lindley (40:50)

The. He's going to be lying in state from tomorrow and on Thursday as well, in Palazzo Mignanelli. Palazzo Mignanelli, as you might remember, is right below the Spanish Steps, which is where. Where we actually used to live before moving to Zurich seven years ago. And this is a great moment. I mean, he's 93. He was 93. He had a very long run, a good run. He also had a chalet in Stad, which I think perhaps you might have popped.

Tyler Brulee (41:13)

I've never popped into his instad. No, but. But I did. I did have the good fortune sort of maybe in. Back in the 90s, mid-90s, into the early 2000s, to, to spend time, to be in sort of the slipstream of Valentino at dinners and various events. And we were saying yesterday day, you know, people talked about sort of, you know, the, the death of Giorgio Armani as sort of being the end of an era. But I actually think Valentino was. Was much more in the world of a Karl Lagerfeld. I mean, of course Valentino. I mean, of course, you know, Armani had had a plane and had a great yacht as well, but was, you know, it was Armani. It was Very pared back. And, and of course, Valentino was very much the opposite. You know, five plus pugs sitting on a sofa in the back of a private plane. And, and the coiffure and everything that went with it. So to me, this really sort of marks, I think, the very sort of clear end of a very specific era in fashion.

Juliet Lindley (42:11)

Very much the end of an era, as Nathalie very nicely put it. He combined Roman elegance with just the right amount of excess. And the country is in mourning. Meloni said he was the undisputed master of style and elegance. Prepare for a lot of big names to be at the funeral in the Basilica di Santa Maria degli Angel de Martiri on, I think it's on Friday the 23rd.

Tyler Brulee (42:33)

Yes.

Juliet Lindley (42:34)

Right. And I mean, he had. So he dressed everyone from Julia Roberts to Gwyneth Paltrow, from Jackie Onassis to, I think, Melania Trump, too.

Tyler Brulee (42:42)

To Melania Trump as well.

Juliet Lindley (42:43)

Absolutely to myself, wearing his Valentino blazer. Looking very nice at the table. But I am joined here at the table by the wonderfully not dressed in red, Markus Schergl. Welcome, Marcus. You're the associate professor at St. Gallen University, the Institute for Marketing. How are you this morning?

Markus Schergl (42:59)

I'm fine, thank you.

Juliet Lindley (43:00)

So good to have you. And we're also joined on the line by Carlota Rebelo, Monocle's executive producer, and she is up in the mountains in Davos. Good morning, Carlota.

Carlotta Rebelo (43:10)

Good morning, Juliet. I'm right in the middle of the promenade where I can tell you that the entrance, the south entrance to the Congress center, there's a line already around the block to try to get in. And the first opening speech is only at 10:30am so people are getting in early today.

Juliet Lindley (43:24)

And what are we looking forward to today? You are at the USA House or you are still nearby, the USA House. What is it looking like on the ground with so much news coming out of Trump World?

Carlotta Rebelo (43:35)

Oh, my God. USA House. I thought it was quite a poignant start today. It's on the other side of the promenade. I'm no longer nearby, but I started my day quite early at 7am for faith and leadership conversation. Now, USA House has taken the sanctuary, which is a church along the promenade. And I was just so curious how fate has become one of the key points that they're bringing into Davos this year as they mark 250 years of American independence. Now, we had a few American business leaders talking about how faith made them be better entrepreneurs and better leaders. But actually, for me, one of the Two most interesting people on that session were the Prime Minister of Kosovo, who was talking about being a political refugee and a political prisoner and how faith helped him guide through decisions. And then our good friend Benedict Franken from the Munich Security Conference, who is talking not just as that role that he has, but also as a member of the German army, as a private citizen, and actually how we are in a world where often we see conflict driven by differences in faith, and how at Munich Security Conference he's been trying to have these sort of conversations for a while. So it was quite a busy morning and I thought at 7am it wouldn't be that busy. It was packed. Some people were left outside of the church. I don't know if that's very in line with being open to all, but that did happen.

Juliet Lindley (44:58)

And what else can we expect for the rest of the morning?

Carlotta Rebelo (45:01)

Yes. So today it is the official opening speech. So we are starting with the CEO and interim co chairs of wef, basically opening proceedings. And then a bit later we are expecting some speeches from Ursula van der Leyen, from Mark Carney, and also from Emmanuel Macron. So it is a big day. It's really feels if yesterday already felt busy today just by looking at the promenade, both entrances full of people. You know, I'm right now looking and trying to dodge some robot delivery dog from delivery company dhl. It's, it's. Everything's happening here.

Juliet Lindley (45:39)

Okay, well, keep the faith there, Carlota. Keep the faith. And speaking of faith and leadership, I'd like to bring in Marcus here. So could you say that faith perhaps is now a part of Brand USA.

Terry Stiazny (45:49)

All of a sudden?

Markus Schergl (45:51)

Oops. I hope so that they, that they, that they try to, to improve that brand besides all the misleading notions that we get from the President. But I think that brand has really is challenged in the last months and it's getting challenged day by day. And I'm not quite sure if the brand is going to survive that, that well, to be as differentiated and as popular and as relevant as in the last.

Juliet Lindley (46:19)

Okay, so if you were asked to rebrand Brand USA right now, what would be the first suggestions that you would put to Washington?

Markus Schergl (46:25)

Oh, Jesus. There would be a simple thing, but that would be a revolution. Looking for a new chief executive. Maybe that would be the easy one. I think that the problem with brands is always their perception. And perception makes reality. And I think they're depending so strongly, even those nation brands are heavily dependent on the actions that are taken today and, and they ruin reputation. Every day you do something against Your brand reputation and it's hard to bid up again. So I think there's no short term solution to this. This is going to be a year long effort to come back to the point where the United States once we are.

Tyler Brulee (47:01)

If I can jump in Juliet, if that's okay. I think also when we talk about brands, Marcus, I think there's, there's also that idea that you always have a brand audit and I think you only had to see yesterday a sporting match in the the uk Someone standing up to sing the national anthem for the United States and, and just the arena erupting and people booing suddenly and to see this again, let's call it, maybe it's not world stage but it is on the stage and, and of course we know, yeah the emotional impact of any national anthem but suddenly that you have a key ally. Everyone is booing. This, this would would be part of I think sort of a national audit saying, you know, okay, what are your global constituents and meaning your, your customers because they're not just talking about but Americans, people who have to trade, people who have to interact. The United States, how are they feeling? They're booing at a leisure match.

Markus Schergl (47:50)

And I think what you said before about the tone in business, I think this is something that is really changing and I don't know if it's really for the good of the economy and for the brand of the United States especially because when you look at it they've got such a global footprint in any kind of activity, be it sports, be it entertainment and everywhere. And I'm not quite sure if this is the right way that the brand should be going and I'm not quite, quite. The problem is you can't control it. If you're a cor. Having a corporate brand, you've got much, much more under control. If you are nation's brand, you're depending so heavily on the culture that the, that the society is representing and how they are behaving. And as you say, I don't feel comfortable with the idea that the American brand is going to bounce back and be as for me coming from Berlin to say this again, the savior of the world, the savior of my city amongst three and two of others. But it's really something, it's lacking that, that confidence of understanding and brands relate to trust and I don't know where the trust is going in that direction.

Juliet Lindley (48:50)

So I'm going to bring it back to Switzerland and brand Switzerland. And some are wondering whether brand Switzerland's image has been dented by what happened in Crom Montana? I know that a lot of the Italian press were very much almost schadenfreude. You see, you perfect, perfect Swiss, Swiss. This can even happen there. If it were in Italy, you'd be laughing at us. But actually look at what happened there. Has brand Switzerland been actually dented in your view? And what about brand Switzerland this week in Davos? How is that going to be shining on the world stage?

Markus Schergl (49:20)

Well, first thing that I need to say, there's no other exceptional brand and nation brands like Switzerland, it's number one everywhere. So they are in a position of such a strength that I think that this brand got maybe more than a hit from Carmontana because it hits on reliability, it hits on transparency. But I would not bring the brand in so fast because I think the problems that Switzerland has with K are much, much more important than just looking at the brand. If I look at it from a long term, I think this is one incident that is heavily relating to the Swiss mentality and the culture and I think it's going to change a lot in the understanding how Swiss see themselves. So it will be reflected somewhat somewhere around the brand from my point of view. And I think, of course it got, got the brand a little hit. A hit, not a little one. But I don't see the brand is really harmed when you look at Davos. Davos is a platform where Switzerland can shine in neutrality, can shine in dire dialogue and bring forward what, what Switzerland is really all about. But again, all these things are not deliberately related to the brand of Switzerland. It comes as it goes. The actions are the most important part.

Juliet Lindley (50:36)

Tyler.

Tyler Brulee (50:37)

I think also because we're talking about such a contained nation as well, 9 million people and, and so this, it just, it sort of, I would say sort of erupts in a much bigger way. Juliet. But listen, this is of course we're talking about, about lives lost in Kramontana and a series of very high profile failures. But we've had, we have to also look back. Switzerland has had significant crises at a global level. We think about, we had the crash of the Swiss Air MD11 off the coast of Nova Scotia. Of course we had, you know, we've had not just one, we've had several banking crises and banking and banks, bank brands collapsing. We had then the grounding of Swiss Air and these and I think every time we look back and we can go and look at the headlines in the Tigers, Anzeiger, Litton, we can look at the NZ and these were all big moments of soul searching, you know, is the national brand damage. So, but I think also every time the nation has learned from it as well. And this is, as you said, these, these rankings, whether it's innovation, whether it's quality of life, whether it's the best cities to live in, you know, Switzerland is always on top and, and there is this mindset as well. They want to be there. So this idea of always, how do we sharpen, how do we improve? Of course, not to capitalize on tragedy, but I think this, this becomes a component of it.

Markus Schergl (51:54)

I think the most important thing that I would say about the brand, it's about the response that you have to a crisis. And the response needs to be done in a certain way that you really see that you're taking care of things. And I think that is happening right now. If they clean up the mess that they have in the, in the valley right now with the general prosecutors and all that stuff, that might be something, something that is hitting back then on Switzerland of being, being the one that is trying to do everything, to do it right again. And I think this is the most important point that you really try to move forward in a positive and in a citizenship like thinking and that might be more important than, yeah, just looking at the crisis.

Juliet Lindley (52:31)

So much more to cover. We'll be looking at brand Switzerland in the next few days. On display in Davos, we've got Carlotta Rebelo. Thank you for joining us us from Davos, Tyler Brulee here in the studio in Zurich. Studio number four. Thank you so much. And Marcus Schle also here with me in Zurich. And I'm going to take it back to you, Emma in London.

Emma Nelson (52:48)

Thank you very much indeed. Juliet. Looking forward to hearing the rest of the output from Zurich this week. You're listening to the globalist.

UBS Narrator (52:58)

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Emma Nelson (53:32)

07:53 Here in London, we have a few minutes to squeeze in some tech news, I am delighted to say. Joining me in the studio, Monocle's technology correspondent, David Phelan. Good to see you. Welcome, David, thank you. Thank you so much for coming in. Now normally you bring things in, you've brought some things in, but the one thing that I was expecting you to bring in, which is a big knife, probably for very good reasons. Is not in studio one at the moment. We normally do things that make you hear things better, see things better. You know, tech, the sort of like the. The more kind of like conceptual technology world. You're helping us to chop our carrots better. What's happened?

David Phelan (54:09)

That's right. CES, the Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas. Mostly about TVs, sometimes about phones, also about domestic appliances and in this case from a brand called Seattle ultrasonics, the C200 chef's knife. It's a chef's knife with an 8 inch blade, fairly heavy handle. But hidden under the handle is a bunch of button. Press that and it vibrates 30,000 times a second. Very tiny vibration, less than the width of a grain of salt. So you can't feel it at all. But it's enough that when you cut it just goes through things that bit easier. It doesn't make everything super simple, but it really helps. And if you're. Baguette was one of the examples they showed us.

Emma Nelson (54:54)

And that I don't bother with cutlery at that point. It's a rush but carry on.

Juliet Lindley (55:00)

Sorry.

David Phelan (55:00)

It goes through much more quickly. So it's an example of how you can take technology to a very ordinary thing and add it and make it better.

Emma Nelson (55:09)

Interesting point. Making technology help an ordinary thing. When I was listening to what you were saying, my brain was thinking, okay, when might I need to use this? Why do I need. Ordinarily heavy knives are not a brilliant thing. They have to be perfectly balanced. But why do I need. Need this clearly very, very clever thing.

David Phelan (55:28)

Yes, it's a good question. Because you know, a superb Japanese chef's knife is probably going to cost the same. It's hundreds of dollars for this knife and might cut as well. But there is something quite satisfying about watching how well it cuts.

Emma Nelson (55:43)

And the very mundane person is saying, can you put it in the dishwasher?

David Phelan (55:47)

No, I don't think you can because you've got a battery inside.

Emma Nelson (55:50)

It's not coming into the Nelson's household. Right, okay. Now normally you bring in smart glasses. No smart glasses today. But stories about them.

David Phelan (55:57)

Yes. Even realities, which has been going for a little while now they're onto the G2. That's their second generation. Obviously these just look like ordinary glasses. You can't see anything. But then when you tip your head up slightly, a screen appears. It's entirely green. So it's green lines, green words, green maps even that seem to float in of front. Front of your eyes. No One on the outside can see them, but they work very well. And they're effective because they have cool features like teleprompter, so that if you're delivering a speech and you haven't bothered to learn your lines, they will appear just floating in front of you and you can read them. And now they're adding new AI details so that you can have a conversation and information will pop up. We're still not where I want them to be. Where as you're walking down, down a corridor, it says your colleague's name, whom you've entirely forgotten, appears in your name. But maybe that will come with facial recognition. But these don't have cameras in, so that's not possible.

Emma Nelson (57:00)

Imagine if it got it wrong. Finally, there's always a piece of show and tell. You've brought us two pieces of show and tell.

David Phelan (57:07)

Yes, it may be three. Lucrin is a very nice Swiss brand that makes beautiful cases in for every kind, every colour of leather, every kind of leather, calf's leather, even ostrich leather for phones and AirPods cases. And then there's a very nice brand called Arc. This is the Arc Pulse. If you want to hold your phone.

Emma Nelson (57:31)

I'm taking David's phone and you want.

David Phelan (57:34)

It to feel like a phone then, but you still want it to be protected. So this is a piece of aerospace grade aluminium that clips onto the top and to the bottom of the iPhone and it means that the, the phone is protected and. But nonetheless you get to feel it. And they've now their CS development and I couldn't bring this, I'm sorry. It costs 1400 pounds. The ArcPulse Titanium Opal Damascus, which is.

Emma Nelson (58:04)

That's a name, isn't it?

David Phelan (58:05)

Well, it is. Well, it's made of titanium. You can get the one I've just shown you in titanium as well. And it's, it's forged in a complicated way. And finally, AirPods Pro, if you thought that you don't want to drop your AirPods Pro case, there's a little thing that clip onto the top and the bottom comes in, that's a sort of matte orange one. You can also get it in shiny silver and other colors and it just means that you're not worried when you chuck it about that it's going to stay safe.

Emma Nelson (58:31)

Brilliant. Another thing for us to lose. David Phelan, thank you so much for coming into the studio and bringing us your things. And that was David Phelan, Monocle's technology correspondent. And that's all the time we have for today's program, the warmest of thanks to all my guests and to the panelists and to our producers, Chris Chermack, Laura Kramer and Tom Webb. Our researcher is Anneliese Maynard and our studio manager was Steph Chungu. After the headlines, more music on the way. The Briefing's live at midday with Carlotta Rebelo hosting from Davos. The Monocle Daily is live from the Greenlandic capital Nuuk with Andrew Muller At 18 o' clock London time, 16 o' clock, if you're listening in Nuuk. And the Globalist is back from here in London at the same time tomorrow. Hope you can join me for that if you can. But for now, from me, Emma Nelson, goodbye. Thank you very much for listening.

UBS Narrator (59:40)

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