← The Globalist
The Globalist
Venezuela prepares for a US attack and tariffs slam the brakes on Japanese carmakers
00:58:17
Loading summary
Transcript105 lines
- [00:04]
UBS Announcer
Craft matters in small ways, like how a coffee is brewed, and in not so small ways, like how your money is cared for. Which is why for 160 years, UBS has elevated banking to a craft, tailoring unique strategies that combine human expertise with the latest technologies, all happening across 24 time zones and 12 key financial hubs. With you at the heart of it all, UBS advice is our craft.
- [00:38]
Emma Nelson
You're listening to the Globalist, first broadcast on 13th November 2025 on Monocor Radio. The Globalist, in association with UV Live from London, this is THE Globalist with me, Emma Nelson. A very warm welcome to today's program.
- [01:14]
News Teaser Voice
Coming up, if we as a republic.
- [01:18]
Lee Quinones
As a people must go to armed struggle to defend the sacred heritage of the liberators, we must be ready to win.
- [01:28]
Emma Nelson
The arrival of the US Biggest warship prompts Venezuela to mobilize, as we've just been hearing there from President Maduro. Meanwhile, the UK Stops sharing some intelligence with Washington. What is about to happen? Also ahead in the next 60 minutes, Serbians protest against a scheme to transfer an emblem of the NATO bombing of 1999 into a luxury hotel backed by Donald Trump's son in law. We'll explore why the plans have got this far. We'll hear the latest on the Netherlands efforts to build a government as the main players are handed a deadline to get the job done.
- [02:02]
Lee Quinones
And who is entitled to seeing work of works of art and who's entitled to collect that work? And most importantly, who's entitled to create that work?
- [02:13]
Emma Nelson
Why is New York graffiti being welcomed here in London? However? Plus, a look at the papers too. That's all coming up on the Globalist, live from London. First, a quick look at what else is happening in today's news. President Trump has signed a bill to end the 43 day shutdown of the US government. The White House has accused Democrats of pushing a fake narrative after they released emails suggesting Donald Trump was aware of sexual abuse by the convicted paedophile Jeffrey Epstein. And prosecutors in Milan have opened an investigation into claims that people paid to travel to Bosnia during the war in the 1990s to kill civilians for fun. Stay tuned to Monocle Radio throughout the day for more on those stories. But first, just how much the US Administration is pressuring the government of Venezuela can arguably be summed up by the arrival of America's biggest warship in the Caribbean waters. The USS Gerald R. Ford is in waters of Latin America, joining an already significant buildup of maritime forces in the region. What the US Wants from Caracas isn't exactly clear, but the Venezuelan authorities aren't taking any chances. And the government, government says it's preparing its forces for invasion or attack. Well, I'm joined now in the studio by Antonio Sampaio, who's an expert on Latin American politics and security. And down the line from Zurich by Gurana Gurgic, who's Monocle's security correspondent. Good morning to you both. Antonio, if I can bring in with you, do we know what Donald Trump wants?
- [03:45]
Antonio Sampaio
I think that it is first of all very difficult to anticipate what Donald Trump wants, especially in terms of foreign policy. But I think that the strike group that he's sending and the build up of forces first, has a signal, a propaganda effect, especially for his internal American audience, of being tough on drugs. I think that is an important flag, an important issue for his administration. And the drug route from Venezuela joins two important things for him. One is being tough on drugs and cracking down allegedly on drug trafficking boats, and second, damaging Nicolas Maduro and the sort of socialist left wing regime in Venezuela. And second, I think that with this latest arrival of this strike group, the intention is also to have a careful sort of a managed escalation of the situation and start striking ground targets in Venezuela, which he hasn't done so far. He has done 19 strikes against boats, but so far hasn't struck with Misayo's ground targets in Venezuela. And I think that's what he's going to do next.
- [05:02]
Emma Nelson
Are you in agreement with this gharana that there is going to be what Antonio has described, a managed escalation?
- [05:08]
Gorana Gurgic
Well, I mean, it's hard to read what Donald Trump is going to do next, but all the signs are pointing to some sort of escalation. Given the buildup. I think that at the moment the sort of opportunities for off ramp are only there if basically Maduro steps down, which is what Trump has been signaling that should happen, that his days are so, so to speak, numbered, as he said in a recent interview. But the kind of, you know, mechanics of what's going to happen in the next days or weeks, I wouldn't necessarily wager that we, any of us know that, you know, how it might all play out. And of course there is now kind of attempt at deterrence coming from the Venezuelan side. So it's not like Venezuela will just stand there idly if it gets attacked and then, you know, it's anyone's bet what happens next.
- [06:09]
Emma Nelson
Antonio, what is Trump's problem with Nicolas Maduro, yes, left wing, but an authoritarian strongman is usually well liked in Trump's world.
- [06:20]
Antonio Sampaio
I think that the combination of the strong socialist agenda, long standing socialist ideology that guides the Venezuelan regime is behind Trump's animosity with Maduro. And also the anti US Cause is a strong one and has been in Venezuela, first for Hugo Chavez, the charismatic predecessor of Nicolas Maduro, that started the Bolivarian Revolution and Maduro carried it on. And I think that this anti US Narrative and rhetoric has reached Trump's ears. And joining the communist socialist ideology that he opposes and the anti US narrative in Venezuela, I think the two things played very well into Trump's card and.
- [07:07]
Emma Nelson
Guarana, this uncertainty that we're talking about here. I think I read that there's one academic who said that this is one of. This is an incredibly unusual situation insofar as we are either on the verge of war or the verge of total normalization of relations between the United States and Venezuela. And there are positions of absolute extreme here, aren't they?
- [07:33]
Gorana Gurgic
Well, I would just take a step back and say that this is basically what's been the case with Trump's foreign policy in general now in the kind of totality of the first year of the second term, because the spectrum of possible outcomes, if you think about US Relations, for instance, in the context of strategic competition with China, it can be anywhere from kind of tacit collusion to outright confrontation. So I don't think that this is sort of out of the ordinary of this whole, again, performative uncertainty and uncertainty for uncertainty's sake. But there is something here that I would say is maybe more specific to the Western Hemisphere, where we've seen this kind of neo Monroe Doctrine type of approach, where the United States really wants to assert its position in its own region. And then there are various speculations. Now, we've heard already what the kind of motivations might be in terms of just, you know, what makes us so antagonistic towards this particular regime in Venezuela, but also how it fits the broader international security kind of interactions and kind of relations between the United States and various other powers where the United States wants to signal that it really is the sort of boss in its own neighborhood, but the way that it's doing it, I'm not sure that it's sending all the right signals at the moment in terms of how it's using its resources and the way that it's behaving to signal to its competitors and adversaries.
- [09:14]
Emma Nelson
Gharana, staying with you. One of the results or something that has happened in the last few days is the United Kingdom's government stopping the sharing of some intelligence with the United States. Do you know what they've put a block on now? And have they given a reason why?
- [09:34]
Gorana Gurgic
Well, London has quietly pulled back. This was a story that was broken by CNN just yester and then we've heard a lot of different additional reports from the Guardian to the Time Magazine, Newsweek and so on. But basically what we know so far, that London is pulling back on sharing of certain intelligence out of fear that it could be used basically to further engage in these strikes that the United States has already was said by your other guests that the US has been conducting basically since September. And this is out of speculation now, of course, over concerns that all of this violates international law and amounts to extrajudicial killings. I would say this is a huge deal actually, given the fact that US And UK have this special relationship also in the context of Washington's five eyes partners, where UK is one, along with Canada, Australia and New Zealand, a part of this most exclusive intelligence sharing club. And it does set a kind of precedent and a signal to other allies in terms of how they go about intelligence sharing. We know already that Colombia's president has also gone further, ordering his country's security forces to stop sharing intelligence with United States until all attacks stop. And even before for all of this, Netherlands has been also withdrawing some of its intelligence sharing. And again, to kind of put it into perspective, we've had these conversations in the context of NATO and the willingness of other allies to share intelligence with the Trump administration basically since the beginning of this year.
- [11:28]
Antonio Sampaio
Yeah, I agree. And the strikes on the boats off the coast of Venezuela are causing severe damage to to the U.S. image and relations with the countries in South America. Trump has also taken unprecedented steps of downgrading and reducing and cutting aid and security aid and development aid to Colombia, which is a long standing ally of the US And a very important intelligence and operational ally in the fight against cocaine trafficking, cocaine production. So this is doing severe damage to the ability of the US to cut cocaine production and trafficking.
- [12:11]
Emma Nelson
And finally, just staying with you, Antonio, for a brief question about Nicolas Maduro himself in power since 2013, the regime universally condemned from the outside in terms of the way that he's treated his people. But would something like this, would an invade, would military action against Venezuela on the ground actually help Maduro's cause?
- [12:33]
Antonio Sampaio
I think to some extent it would play on his ideology, ideological messaging that the US Is imperialistic and would confirm the views that he has to unite the country. And the opposition needs to be further crushed or silenced to allow for the defense of the nation. The big question is to what extent? What targets will Venezuela strike? Will the US Strike in Venezuela? Because there's a possibility that they will only strike drug trafficking, alleged drug trafficking targets and cartel targets. But if it strikes government assets.
- [13:15]
Hans Greimal
It.
- [13:16]
Antonio Sampaio
Is really unknown what effect it will have in terms of destabilizing the regime or strengthening the regime.
- [13:21]
Emma Nelson
Antonio Zampaio in the studio with me and Gorana Gordi in Zurich. Thank you both so much for joining us on the Globalist. It's 8:13 in Amsterdam, 7:13 here in London. Now, how long should it take to build a government? The Netherlands voted in snap elections last month, but the two leading parties have been been given just three weeks to sort themselves out. A so called scout has set the deadline for them. Well, Shunai Boshtash is a Netherlands based journalist joining us now from Amsterdam. Good morning, Shunny.
- [14:19]
UBS Announcer
Good morning.
- [14:20]
Emma Nelson
So who has been told what in terms of what they need to do?
- [14:24]
UBS Announcer
Well, they've decided to take a slightly different approach because like some other countries, we've seen the support for different parties fragment an awful lot in recent years, which has meant a series of very unstable cabinets that fall very quickly. So the Vikena, the scout has said to the two parties who haven't objected to forming a coalition with anybody else and who haven't been objected to to get together, put their heads together, take three weeks to write a kind of core basis for the plans that they agree on to take the country forward and then on the basis of that report, they can look for other partners who would lend support one way or the other.
- [15:03]
Emma Nelson
Why set a deadline though, to try.
- [15:06]
UBS Announcer
To make it as quick as possible? I mean, there is a need for things to happen in the Netherlands, especially with problems like our housing shortage and our problems with pollution and the chain, the migrate, the issues around migration and what should happen with that which some people are concerned about. So the idea is that if these parties get together and at least agree on what they do agree on, then it's a better start than arguing for 10 months as has happened in the past.
- [15:35]
Emma Nelson
So how many of these groups are gathering together? Who are the main players are and you mentioned there the idea that people will find things to agree on where, where are the areas of consensus?
- [15:46]
UBS Announcer
So the two parties we've got who are going to be doing this are D66, which is our kind of Liberal Democrat Progressive party headed by Rob Yetton, who it looks in all likelihood to be the next prime minister. And the other party is the Christian Democrats, the cda, which has a very sensible leader who promoted himself on a message of common decency and being an adult and trying to solve problems. Henry Bontabol and they are both center centrist parties, so they do already agree on quite a lot. D66 is slightly to the left, CDA is slightly to the right. But both of the leaders have said in the next government we need to make compromises. They both talked about a left right kind of coalition. They do agree on, for instance, prioritizing looking at labour migration as a way to control population growth in the Netherlands, which seems logical because it's the largest source of migration. They want to do things like make it easier to share houses and split houses in order to solve of the housing shortage. So they've already got quite a lot in common.
- [16:48]
Emma Nelson
There are what, last time I looked, about 27 parties. Representative. Representative in the House of Representatives. Correct me if I'm wrong there, but that seems to be a very large number of different voices who need to be unified.
- [17:03]
UBS Announcer
Yeah, blink and you miss them. Actually it goes up and down because when people split from their party, then they then become an independent and get.
- [17:09]
Emma Nelson
Counted as a separate party.
- [17:11]
UBS Announcer
So yes, there's a lot of parties here. But what they would need is at least 75 seats, at least 76 seats to have a majority in the lower chamber and 3738 to have a majority in the Senate. They together have got 44. So actually there's not so many more seats they would need for a majority government. And some people have even been talking about could, could they manage it with a minority government if they had already hammered in support for different measures with different parties.
- [17:44]
Emma Nelson
Tell us a little bit about what other countries whose politics have been paralyzed for whatever reason. What do you think that they could learn with the way that the Netherlands is going about things?
- [17:54]
UBS Announcer
Don't copy us. It's, you know, it's a bit, bit early to say that. Some people have been talking about the example of Belgium, which is obviously our close neighbor, and Denmark has had reasonably successful minority governments. So it can happen. The Dutch have been through history for their ability to what they call polder, which is work together, even though, even when they hate their neighbors to keep the water out because we're so low that if we don't keep the water out, we don't have a country. So I think a lot of people are just hoping the Dutch rediscover that skill in themselves.
- [18:30]
Emma Nelson
Chenay Borchtau, thank you so much. For joining us on the line from Amsterdam. You're listening to the Globalist with me Emma Nelson. Still to come on today's program, yes.
- [18:38]
News Teaser Voice
We'Ve been growing the fast as like the fastest growing destination over the past six years but we haven't started. We really haven't. I say this with confidence because three of the fundamental pillars of tourism growth, number one, the destinations. They say build it and they'll come. They haven't opened that scale.
- [18:54]
Emma Nelson
Why Saudi Arabia is still dominating when it comes to pushing tourism. Stay with us.
- [19:02]
UBS Announcer
Craft is a matter of perspective, a unique outlook, an obsessive attention to detail. With UBS's Chief Investment Office Houseview, we're focused on identifying the latest investment opportunities and market risks to help you achieve your financial goals. So you get the big picture broken down into thought provoking insights delivered daily and curated by over 200 globally connected locally active analysts. UBS banking is our craft.
- [19:40]
Emma Nelson
Let's have a look at today's newspapers. Joining me is Terry Stiazny, political journalist and author of Believable Lies the Misfits who Fought Churchill's Secret Propaganda War. How are you Terry? Good to see you in the studio. Very well, thank you. What have you been up to at the moment? How's the book going?
- [19:53]
Terry Szasny
It seems to be, seems to be going well. I've done a few nice events, been traveling around to some nice, nice bits of the country hoping people will buy.
- [20:00]
Emma Nelson
It for Christmas presents. There you go. You've had your advert there, right? What have you spotted in the paper?
- [20:05]
Terry Szasny
Well, I mean France is having a very solemn day today where they are remembering, it's 10 years, can you believe it since the attacks that we sort of remember now as the attacks on the Bataclan by Islamic State. But in looking at the coverage in all of the French papers, you're just reminded how huge this was and how widespread those terrible attacks were in Paris in 2015. You know, not only outside the Stade de France or outside cafes and, and all across, across Paris. And there is a big day of memorials and commemorations today in Paris. Emmanuel Macron is going to be there of course, and Annie Dalgo, the, the mayor of Paris. They're going to be inaugurating a memorial garden in the city. The, the bells of Notre Dame and of all the Paris churches are going to sound and of course, you know, is a day to remember the victims. Not only one hundred and thirty people who died, 490 people who were injured, but of course all the survivors as well. And there are A lot of accounts in the papers, in Le Figaro, in Le Parisien, of, you know, the real impact that this has had on the people who survived.
- [21:16]
Emma Nelson
Indeed, Le Parisien focuses particularly on just how surprisingly deep this now runs. There's a photograph of them of people paying tribute in Place de Republique yesterday, ahead of the anniversary today. But you just see recount out of account, out of account of people who have actually got buried, trauma because of this. People are afraid of getting on trains, people are afraid of loud explosions.
- [21:43]
Terry Szasny
I think they're afraid of being in public places with lots of people.
- [21:46]
Emma Nelson
Exactly. And, and children are being educated now how to hide under a table. And, you know, in the account of, in the, in the event of an attack, it goes very, very deep into the French psyche, doesn't it? It does.
- [22:00]
Terry Szasny
And I think it was one of those incidents where even if you were not French or not living in France, you know, you did see a big sort of upsurge of people having solidarity with France. I mean, you know, and people sort of wanting to support it because I think, you know, so many people even, you know, if, you know, Paris even a little bit, or if you, you could imagine what it might have been like to be there. But obviously, you know, for people who, who were there, you know, even as you say, you know, the, the effects on their children and what they warn them about. So it's been a very, very long lasting impact that was, was felt around the world.
- [22:32]
Emma Nelson
Okay, let's move on to a story that's been bubbling around for about 12, 13 hours now, which is the Democrats have released emails suggesting that Donald Trump knew that Jeffrey Epstein was a paedophile and was a sex offender.
- [22:52]
Terry Szasny
Yes, I mean, it is interesting how much has just been released now overnight. Obviously part of it is to do with the fact that, you know, the Democrats now had enough votes to get even more. Documents released 20,000 pages of emails from Jeffrey Epstein, but the earliest ones, some of those which were released seem to suggest that Donald Trump. This has made the front pages of most of the UK papers this morning, suggesting in the words of the Guardian, that Donald Trump knew about the conduct of the late sex offender Jeff, Jeffrey Epstein, including an email in which Jeffrey Epstein said, of course he, Trump knew about the girls, suggesting that Trump had spent hours with one of, of the victims. And that victim was named by the White House, in fact, as, as the late Virginia Giuffre, who was, of course, then involved with, you know, the former Prince Andrew. And it's just, I think, you Know, people are going to spend, who are sort of fascinated by this, are going to spend days and days, I think, going through every single line of every single email. And it seems to include more emails with Peter Mandelson, of course, the former British ambassador now as well, who also had to resign over continuing contact tech with Jeffrey Epstein. And I just want to, you know, the sheer volume of the level of these emails, I don't know, you know, will this just be a sort of an overwhelm, that there'd be so many people involved in it and so many suggestions that it's almost impossible to kind of follow everything up or, you know, and Trump, Donald Trump still, you know, the White House saying, well, this doesn't mean anything. It doesn't. Doesn't tell us anything more, and saying both that it's fake news and that he did meet this person. So there's contradictory lines coming out of.
- [24:28]
Emma Nelson
The White House, indeed, the White House saying the person that Trump spent a lot of time with was Virginia Giuffre, the late victim of sex trafficking by Jeffrey Epstein, who has always maintained that Donald Trump had nothing to do with the abuse. The trouble is that both Epstein and Giuffre are now dead. They're not with us to sort of, of clarify anything, but I think it's even the Daily Mail, which likes to go very deep on this, talks about how Jeffrey Epstein says, I could take Trump down and talks about him as the dog who hasn't barked. There's clearly, by the end of this, no love lost between the two.
- [25:04]
Terry Szasny
No, I mean, and, and Jeffrey Epstein was also making, you know, nastier comments about, you know, Trump describing him as, as nuts and all sorts of. But, you know, just this absolute screen. And it's just fascinating, you know, the number of people that he was in contact with. And I think, you know, I.
- [25:19]
Lee Quinones
It.
- [25:20]
Terry Szasny
This is clearly not going to go away. The more people want to see release, the more questions there still are, which, you know, as to who was in contact with Jeffrey Epstein and what they knew about what he was doing.
- [25:30]
Emma Nelson
Let's finally touch on a very real problem in Japan, which is a surge in bear attacks. Given the fact that I think it's to do with the migrating population going into cities, bears are going in and are being emboldened by the fact that places are a little bit emptier. Now, we've covered this quite a lot on Monocle Radio, but the Guardian has a brilliant, brilliant article about how this is all gone. This has all gone a bit funny due to AI.
- [25:56]
Terry Szasny
Yes, this is, it's kind of an interesting exercise in popular psychology, I think. And yes, the Guardian article here talks about one of the reasons about the poor. It's poor crops of acorns and beech nuts apparently, which means that bears don't have their usual diet and they're coming into the cities to look for food. You know, the kind of thing that we see in, in the States quite often. And people are worried and worried about what to do you, if you, if you spot a bear. But some of these bears are apparently not real because people are. There's a torrent of AI generated videos which apparently claim to show people in close encounters with bears. And for instance here there's a screenshot of one where there's a, an old lady seeming to fight a bear off with a stick. But, but these, these are totally fake bears. So fake news bears, these are AI generated bears. One's destroying solar panels, making off with a pet dog. But the trouble is of course that, you know, when people can't tell the difference between what's AI and what's not, it exacerbates the panic. And so people are already scared about the bears coming, coming near to them, but then seeing a video of one running off with your, with your pet dog or something not surprisingly makes people even more terrified.
- [27:03]
Emma Nelson
And indeed from the outside these videos are quite funny, but really they're absolutely not funny at all because what they're doing is, they are. I think there's quite a lot of people, you know, obviously the ones people running away from bears, but there are some actually feeding bears. Now. This is something that actually the authorities are trying to stop happening, isn't it?
- [27:21]
Terry Szasny
Well, yes, exactly. Because, you know, people might think, oh, there's a, I don't know if you would think, you know there's a nice bear, don't you? And a professor at Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology has had to explain this in terms saying feeding a bear is extremely dangerous and could not result in them no longer fearing humans. And 13 people have died in bear attacks this year and more than 100 people have been injured. So, you know, do not feed the bears, do not feed the trolls by, by spreading fake bear news.
- [27:48]
Emma Nelson
Indeed. And it's, it's now being borne out by the fact that, you know, you said that 13 people have died, which is a lot, but it is actually disrupting daily life in regions. I think it's in, in the north, isn't it that they've stopped the postal service in some areas?
- [28:01]
Terry Szasny
Yes, they've had to suspend collections and deliveries in part of Akita prefecture where the self defense forces have been deployed. And even telecom engineers have been a bit worried about this because they have to go in into the mountains to go and repair communications towers and they're saying that they don't want to do that because of the bears.
- [28:18]
Emma Nelson
Terry Szasny, thank you so much for joining us. On Monocle Radio, you're listening to the Globalist. And a look now at some of the other stories we're following. Today, President Trump has signed a bill to end the 43 day shutdown of the US government. It was passed by the US House of Representatives. Welcoming the breakthrough, he criticized the Democrats and said there should be a never being another shutdown. As we've been hearing in the paper review, the White House has accused Democrats of pushing a fake narrative after they released emails suggesting Donald Trump was aware of sexual abuse by the convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. One of the messages said Mr. Trump spent hours at Epstein's house with someone described by Democrats as a victim of sex trafficking. The White House said the unnamed person was the late Virginia giuffre and said Mr. Trump was not involved in any abuse. And prosecutors in Milan have opened an investigation into claims that citizens traveled to Bosnia during the war in the 1990s to kill civilians for fun. Evidence has emerged of so called sniper tourism when wealthy Italians, Russians and Americans traveled to the besieged city of Sarajevo and took up sniper positions of the Bosnian Serbs. And those are the headlines on Monocor Radio. The time in Belgrade is 8:38am now, an effort to overcome the burden of the NATO bombing of 1999 or a tacky move to turn one of Serbia's most powerful anti war symbol symbols into a flash hotel. Last week the Serbian parliament passed a law which allows Donald Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner to develop the site of the former Yugoslav army's headquarters in Belgrade. He wants to turn it into a luxury hotel and apartments. Well, the location is seen by some as untouchable, a reminder of the NATO bombing of the site in 1999. Over the weekend, there were widespread demonstrations against the plans. Well, I'm joined now from Ljubljana by Monocle's Gold Balkans correspondent, Guy Delaunay. Good morning, Guy.
- [30:23]
Guy Delaunay
Good morning, Emma. Good morning everybody.
- [30:25]
Emma Nelson
What an unbelievable meeting of two pieces of history. Just explain to us this site, the significance is huge, isn't it? It's historical, it's societal and it's even architecturally important.
- [30:39]
Guy Delaunay
Absolutely, all of the above. And I think this project and what the Serbian government has done by pushing through a special law to allow it to go ahead is possibly going to unite a really bizarre coalition of people against the project. Because let's look at it from the first impressions that you get if you're a visitor to Belgrade, because this is what I got. I knew that Belgrade had been bombed during 1999. That was when NATO had this campaign of airstrikes which was designed to pressure the former president of Serbia, Slobodan Milosevic, into withdrawing his troops from Kosovo, where they'd been oppressing Albanian civilians. So that's the history of it. So, you know, there was a bombing campaign, but when you come into the city for the first time, and this still happens today, and it happened to me the first time I went to Belgrade in 2012, you will come along one of the city's main boulevards from the airport. And as you go along that boulevard, you will see this very obviously bombed out complex of buildings on your right hand side as you go into the city. And it's quite an extraordinary thing to see. It'd be like going along, you know, Pall Mall and seeing an enormous complex of bombed out buildings there in London, because that's the. Where the Serbian government has their main buildings along this boulevard in Belgrade. The site is literally opposite the current main building of the Serbian government. So it's an utterly bizarre welcome to the city. And it's remained that way for 26 years because of this concern about what do you do with it. We want to remember that this happened. We want to remember that, A, we brought this upon ourselves in 1999. But B, also the people in Serbia died during those NATO bombing campaigns. And this is a memorial to them. And that's before we even get into the architectural significance of the site, which I can go into detail if you.
- [32:33]
Emma Nelson
Like, Emma, if you would. Very briefly, though, I'm not quite sure how you do detail with no time, but I'm sure you can do it if anyone can.
- [32:40]
Guy Delaunay
Well, absolutely. So it's actually been. So it's. One of the most significant architects in Yugoslavia designed the complex, Nikola Dobrovich, and he designed it in a very particular way. You've got two buildings either side of one of these roads that's coming up from the main road, railway station, and they're designed to resemble the Sutayska Canyon in Bosnia, which was the site of the pivotal battle of the Second World War. As far as the Yugoslav partisans are concerned, that was the one which turned the course of the war and enabled the partisans, to liberate Yugoslavia, because they did it themselves. And this is something which is a great source of pride in the countries of the former Yugoslavia, even today. So, you know, that's very symbolically important. It was meant to be this welcome to the city city. You come up the hill, you see this visual representation of the Sutayska Canyon. And you know that's, that's all very important. But if that's going to be wiped away, what does that say about the respect for not just the, the history of Yugoslavia, the history of the partisans, but also Yugoslav architectural heritage, which gets a lot of international respect these days.
- [33:49]
Emma Nelson
So those who are suggesting that this actually would be a good idea are saying that that this could overcome the burden of the NATO bombing of 1999. It would allow Serbia's people to enjoy a fresh start. Would it be easier to stomach from the Serbian point of view were it not Donald Trump's son in law involved?
- [34:10]
Guy Delaunay
It would indeed. And I think it's a very fair point about moving on, having a fresh start. You've had 26 years of having bombed out buildings in the center of your capital. Maybe it would be better to have something else that there. But it's the sensitivities of it. If you're going to have a project on the site of the Defence Ministry buildings, if you decide that really they can't be saved and they've got to be demolished, you should be putting something there that's done sensitively, that's done with respect to both the partisans and the people who died in the 1999 bombings, plus Nikola Dobrovich and the heritage of Yugoslav architecture. And it should be something which is primarily Serbian because you're on one of the city's main boulevards, you write opposite the government building. This idea that you're in essence giving it to Donald Trump's son in law, who has been approved to put a Trump International Hotel on the site. Absolutely. Is an extremely hard one to swallow. And the critics feel that once again we're seeing development in Belgrade which has not been done transparently. This wasn't put out to tender. It wasn't like there was an international competition for the design of the new site. Right. It's all just been agreed primarily between people at the very top of government and Jared Kushner and his company guy.
- [35:29]
Emma Nelson
We have a scant few seconds to address this. But in the headlines we were talking about how prosecutors in Milan are opening an investigation into so called sniper tourism. When wealthy Italians, Russians and Americans traveled to Sarajevo and took up the Bosnian Serb sniper positions and killed people for fun. What do we know about.
- [35:48]
Guy Delaunay
Well, we know there was a film made in 2022 by Slovenian filmmaker which went into this, but it was very light on, shall we say, evidence. It just had primarily one person who used to work for the army intelligence for the army of the of Bosnia and Herzegovina. So that's to say not at the Serb side, and an anonymous source who was claiming that all of this went on. This was then picked up on by an Italian writer who's now submitted, submitted a complaint to prosecutors in Milan who've opened an investigation that's caused a lot of headlines around the world. What I did was get in touch with my contacts who were with the British army in Sarajevo during the war, and they told me they were both in Sarajevo and at the Serbian positions around Sarajevo where there was sniping going on. They never heard of, never saw any evidence of any sniper tourism, if you like. And they described it to me as an urban myth. But I would say watch this space.
- [36:49]
Emma Nelson
Monocours Balkans correspondent Guy Delaunay, thank you so much for joining us on the line from Ljubljana. Now, a few years ago, when Saudi Arabia first opened its doors to leisure tourism as opposed to the religious tourism of the Hajj, a bar was set to welcome 100 million visitors per year by 2030. Well, very quickly that goal was reached and quickly the target was revised up to 150 million visitors by 2030. But how can it be done successfully? Well, Fahd Hamidadin is the CEO of Saudi Arabia's Tourism Authority and organizer of Tourize. He says he's optimistic it can happen.
- [37:31]
News Teaser Voice
We never expected domestic tourism will grow this this much.
- [37:35]
Insi Rashid
What happened?
- [37:36]
News Teaser Voice
The pandemic happened. It was our greatest blessing. The Saudis visited their own country and the prejudices that happen in every country were shattered by discovering how beautiful the villages and the other neighborhoods are. And then it was they were forced to visit those destinations and now they visit them again and again by choice. Second is the response from the world has been phenomenal. People come in and tell the stories and we have been getting excellent stories out there and NPS sets the facts right. I mean, we have been having a very positive, healthy, positive NPS from our travelers. Lastly, if how do I feel about 150 if we jumped from low 60s to 116 last year, I'm sure you would agree that 1% hundred, 150 would be easy because honestly, yes, we've been growing the fast as like the fastest growing destination of the past six years. But we haven't started. We really haven't. I say this with confidence because three of the fundamental pillars of tourism growth number one, the destinations they say build it and they'll come. They haven't opened that scale. Daria just opened one hotel out of 45G has not opened any single hotel. It's a whole city and so on and so forth. Red Sea, Sea Asea Mountains and Adara. All the Giga projects are still in the pipeline. Second, they say a global airline champion builds a destination where the other air just started with one Saudi is coming with another 130 aircraft in the pipeline. That the expansion alone makes it the 13th largest airline in the world. The and then they also say the third pillar is global airport. Successful airport high hubs build destinations and we have three international airports in the making that would be global hubs. So what's not to make us believe it's going to be easy.
- [39:31]
Emma Nelson
That was Fahd Hamidadeen who's the CEO of Saudi Arabia's tourism authority. He was talking to Monocle's Gulf correspondent in Zamam Rashid, who joins us now on the line back from Riyadh, but back into Dubai. A very good morning to you Insi.
- [39:45]
Insi Rashid
Morning, Anna.
- [39:46]
Emma Nelson
So is there a sense that despite the tremendous amount of self confidence that the Saudi tourism industry possesses, is there a sense that 150 million visitors per year is realistically achievable and done Well.
- [40:03]
Insi Rashid
I do think it's absolutely achievable and I actually asked Fahad yesterday about how they actually got the calculation so wrong because they had estimated 100 million and they surpassed that to 116 I think it was. And now, now they've revised the total to 150 million. And actually what they were saying is that they were genuinely, genuinely surprised and shocked to see so many tourists flood into Saudi Arabia. And I think that's down to the incredible offerings the country has from incredible cities that they're developing at fast pace. But also there's a huge amount of natural beauty in Saudi Arabia which is really untouched and also unheard of as well. And I think even a lot of the locals, particularly in Saudi and the wider GCC countries are probably experiencing now. They've never really heard of areas like Alula before until recent years. And so I think, you know, in this day and age of posting everything on Instagram and people spreading the word, I think it's got the word out there. And that's why the Saudis have realized that they've Got this treasure in their own country. And so they need to develop. And so this target of 150 million, I think is very realistic. But it is to your question about doing it well and doing. Doing actually all that natural beauty some justice by providing proper tourism. And I think Saudi are throwing a lot. Well, they are actually throwing a lot of cash to these projects, to these huge giga projects. Some of them are backscaling, some of them are being reviewed and revised. And perhaps they don't have as much money as they once intended for them, but I do still believe they will create a proper product. And what torize this event that I was at yesterday in Riyadh actually did is they brought all of these organizations that you wouldn't usually actually get at a kind of tourism conference. So from the world of technology, even banking were there, as well as the hospitality sector, as well as the tourism sectors from all over the world, and actually brought them all under one roof to see how they can work better collaboratively in order to create a better tourism experience for people who want to come to a place like Saudi. But what was really important and quite striking that I found yesterday, and I've been to a lot of these conferences, is that this wasn't about just creating Saudi as a destination and to get 150 million tourists there, but in fact, it was Saudi Arabia showing that they want to set the global travel itinerary. They want to lead when it comes to global tourism. And that was the message that they've really been trying to push through this inaugural conference.
- [42:53]
Emma Nelson
Leading with global tourism assumes that you're going to get a lot of international visitors. I mean, as we heard from Fahd Hamidadin, that the great surprise came from the domestic tourist market who realized the beauty of their own country. But when you have a global tourist market, you want to work out where they are, first of all, coming from. And secondly, the cultural differences in Saudi Arabia are not something that are often mentioned about the fact that, you know, if you jump on a plane, you know, run by Saudi, that plane is going to be dry. You can't get a gin and tonic. Or if you're going to go down to the beach, you have to dress modestly, you can't hold hands.
- [43:29]
Hans Greimal
How much.
- [43:30]
Emma Nelson
How is Saudi addressing these. The sort of cultural expectations that many Westerners at least have when they go on holiday.
- [43:38]
Insi Rashid
Yeah, I think Saudi are very much of the. Of the thought that, well, look, you know, in our country they are the rules. And, you know, if you want to come and visit us Then you have to follow those rules and abide by them. And I think they very much got that mindset that is the way it is. But we are willing to adapt. We are willing to be more welcoming by perhaps loosening the rules slightly, you know, just being a bit more kind of open arms, particularly to Western talk. And we've seen that even when I travel there from the uae, it feels a lot more open. It feels a lot more welcoming as well. You know, we know for a long time there's been the issue about women and not being able to drive in the country. They, of course allowed that to happen recently. When you turn up to Saudi as well, you know, you don't have to wear the abaya, the kind of the covering through the airport and into Riyadh. You know, there are women out there in very kind of modern clothing as well for Saudi Arabia. And so I think they are being, you know, a lot more open to that. And that will only happen more, Emma, when more people actually come into the country and probably people who don't actually know about the rules will come in and they won't actually find that it is much of an issue. They'll let people go about their daily lives and I think that's something that Saudi Arabia wants to do. They want to be more open. That's the way that they are going to get more people coming into the country. And actually it is a pretty attractive prospect to a lot of people coming there as well. That element of privacy, that element of kind of being a bit more modest as well. But I don't think it will be long before hotels before public venues will actually be serving a gin and tonic soon.
- [45:35]
Emma Nelson
Intimate Rashid in Djibai, thank you so much for joining us on the glass. Globalist.
- [45:43]
UBS Announcer
Iq, EQ and AI, three components key to the craft of innovation at ubs. Because to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving age, you need a partner with decades of experience, endless passion for the work, and a finger on the pulse of leading technologies. Bridging human expertise with artificial intelligence, all to elevate you. UBS banking is our craft.
- [46:21]
Emma Nelson
News from the automotive industry. Now from Japan in particular, I'm joined now from Tokyo by Hans Greimal, who's the Asia editor of Automotive News. Good afternoon, Hans.
- [46:31]
Hans Greimal
Good afternoon. Thanks for having me.
- [46:32]
Emma Nelson
Delighted to have you on the radio. Welcome to Monaco Radio. So tell us about what's happening with the Japanese automotive industry. All eyes have been on it as a direct result of the tariff problems with the United States.
- [46:47]
Hans Greimal
Right. Well, we just had the first half earnings season wrap up here in Japan and it was not especially good news for them. They suffered a huge impact from the tariffs in their fiscal first half, which runs from April through September. Almost $10 million impact across the board here. And that's just the first half. They expect maybe a little bit better improving situation in the second half because of the dial down in the tariff rate. They were charged at 27.5% in the first half and then the second half, the negotiated 15% rate will take effect. So they have that to look forward to. But it's still a big weight on their earnings.
- [47:35]
Emma Nelson
And this dialing down and the fact that it has actually eaten into their earnings is obviously a profoundly unpredictable situation for the major companies. I mean, how are the big carmakers responding to all this?
- [47:49]
Hans Greimal
Well, you're right. I think they are in a more comfortable position now because the tariffs seem to be settled and they call this now the new normal. That gives them at least something to plan with and to prepare for. So the era of uncertainty that they faced maybe three months ago is lifted. But you're right, they still have to deal with cost cutting and they're dealing with a couple of different ways. One is just raw cost cutting. Another is moving more production to the United States. Another method is raising prices. So there are all different kinds of a patchwork, if you will, of different kinds of approaches that they're taking here.
- [48:29]
Emma Nelson
The tariffs aren't just one headache for Japanese carmakers. Honda is having a terrible time at the moment given the fact that it's not only having to battle the tariffs, but it's also having to try to embrace the world of electric vehicles. And where are the Japanese with this at the moment? The Chinese have run far ahead with it. Honda isn't doing so so well.
- [48:49]
Hans Greimal
Well, that's correct. Honda was pretty much alone among the Japanese automakers in betting big time on the future of electric vehicles. It was the one that proclaimed it would a timeline, the only one to proclaim a timeline for phasing out internal combustion. And it bet billions and billions of dollars in building EV production hubs in the United States and in Canada. Canada. And then that's now all kind of falling apart because of the slowdown in electric vehicle demand and of course the unwinding and phasing out of tax incentives to buy EVs. So now it's kind of left holding the bag and it's now having to take down huge write downs for these investments that look premature in retrospect.
- [49:44]
Emma Nelson
Tell us about the wider landscape for electric vehicles in Japan. How are Japanese automakers actually adapting to all this?
- [49:53]
Hans Greimal
Well, Japanese automakers in general, the industry here is very, they call it the multi pathway approach. They don't put all their eggs in one basket. They try to focus on a variety of different electrification strategies that really focus heavily on hybrid drive trains. That that means an internal combustion engine, an old fashioned gasoline engine paired with an electric motor so that you get the kind of the best of both worlds. You don't have to plug in, you can go to a normal gasoline station to fill up, but yet it's more efficient than the old fashioned gasoline car. So that's the approach that most Japanese are taking and it seems to be paying paying off now as the electric car boom slows down.
- [50:43]
Emma Nelson
Finally, let's talk about Nissan. It sold its headquarters.
- [50:49]
Hans Greimal
That's right, it sold its headquarters here. It's going to lease it back on a 20 year lease. But that is part of their radical, if you will, cost cutting and asset sales approach. They are in the middle of a kind of a ratio radical rework of their operations under a midterm plan that's trying to, to get them out from under heavy losses and rekindle growth. And that is part of that plan is closing seven plants worldwide, seven of 17 so that they'll have only 10 left. So far they've announced six of those plants and there's one left to be announced.
- [51:32]
Emma Nelson
So it's having again like Tondra is having a very bad time. How does it try to go about reviving and rebuilding its business here? Because once you've sold your global headquarters, it's gone. You can't have it back. But closing down factories also is removing vital global footprint.
- [51:52]
Hans Greimal
That's right. But they have way more factory space and factory firepower, if you will, than they have for sale. And all that extra unused factory space basically is causing big headaches and big losses and big overhead. So in the short term what they want to do is clear that out so that they have the production capacity that more matches there, more meager if you will, sales volume and thus make it more profitable.
- [52:24]
Emma Nelson
Hans Greimel on the line from Tokyo, Asia editor from Automotive News. Thank you so much for joining me on the global globalist. Now in the 1970s, a New York graffiti pioneer, Lee Quinones, started to create art on what he called his moving canvases the New York City subway. While a four figure in the world of graffiti with features at the Whitney and moma, Quinones argues his medium became a coded language of identity for minorities. Well, today Quinones has brought a landmark solo exhibit, America is outside overseas, to London's Woodbury House. A monocle Raised Radio's Anita Riota talked with him about his career. She began by asking him, from one New Yorker to another, how the city shaped his art.
- [53:11]
Lee Quinones
I think what shaped my art at the time in New York City is that New York City is always reinventing itself every day, every minute of the day. I always call it the 24 hour play that never ends because there's all these actors, supporting actors, co conspirators, directors, producers, all in society. And there's always some sense of we're in the center stage and we need to express that moment. And I think New York at that time, being such an austere, challenged place, was in transition. It was burnt some places down to the ground and revitalizing itself in some way. The obvious answer to your first question is like, of course, the visuals was the first thing that I, I saw as a antidote, a prescription to address the issues at hand. And you know, when a child or young person wakes up to a dysfunctional, disinvested environment, they start to question, what's this about? Against all the other, you know, dandy stories that people tell you that life is. And then you compare that to real life and you start to say, there's something happening here, but you don't know what it is.
- [54:39]
Emma Nelson
I've also been trying to think about first starting to create art on trains. Obviously, I saw somewhere that you've described it as a moving canvas. What does it mean to create art in a space that will probably be seen by people who may be. Then don't get to go to a gallery, get to go to a museum. Does that influence how you think about your viewer? If it's, you know, someone who hasn't necessarily chosen to interact with art but now will interact with yours?
- [55:10]
Lee Quinones
Yeah, sure. I mean, at that time, you know, creating work on vessels that moved from one space to the other addressed the question, who is entitled to seeing what work of works of art and who is entitled to collect that work? And most importantly, who's entitled to create that work under any circuit, under very, very. By any means necessary in some cases. But under the circumstances of the time where the natural thing for humans to do is to express themselves, especially in times of. In challenging times, they need to express, whether it's through the written words or through all the genres of art come into play when people feel that they need to express and purge a message and you know, it was an ingenious conceptual idea to actually create works of art. And I. That's the way I looked at it. I'm sure some of my contemporaries did as well. But we didn't have no direction. We didn't have a roadmap map. There wasn't necessarily a manifesto directing us in the directions, because at the time, you have to remember, all of New York was in flux.
- [56:26]
Emma Nelson
I wanted to ask you about that because, you know, here on Monocle Radio, we obviously talk about these rising geopolitical tensions very often, and it's something that you have engaged with throughout your career. But how do you see the relationship between art and activism today?
- [56:44]
Lee Quinones
I think, you know, in general, the change is not much different. I think the act of making art is rebellious. It's political in its own way, because you're addressing things that people may not be thinking of. So I think that art should reflect, be a mirror for the times. And sometimes we may walk away and have decorative art and art that kind of. Even if it's abstract or minimal, that it may still have a message in that, because it jerks you to have a feeling. And then you have figurative art or even the written word and poetry and art that actually really addresses. I think poetry and figurative art go hand in hand, but they address the same issues in different ways. You can paint a picture with words. You can make words into a picture.
- [57:37]
Emma Nelson
And that was the artist Lee Quinones talking to Anita Riota. You can catch his exhibit America is Outside at London's woodbury House until November 27th. And that's all the time we have for today's program. The warmest of thanks to all my guests and to the producers Anita Riota and Chris Chermack. Our researcher was Joanna Moser and our studio manager was Elliot Greenfield. After the headlines. More music on the way. The briefings live at midday here in London, we'll be hearing about the latest edition of Confect magazine. And Fernando Augusta Pacheca will be doing a Divas of Belem Special to celebrate COP30 in Brazil. The Globelist is back at the same time tomorrow. I hope you can join me for that if you can. But for now, from me, Emma Nelson, goodbye. Thank you very much for listening. Sam.
- [58:59]
UBS Announcer
With ubs, you have a truly global partner incorporating new technologies, innovative approaches and unexpected opportunities, leading you to insights that help answer the questions that matter, delivered with passion, care and unmatched expertise. Because it's about rising with the dawn each day, knowing that we can do even better. That's what Banking is to us not just work, but a craft. UBS advice is our craft.