What defence lessons can Taiwan learn from Ukraine?

Summary

The Globalist

Episode: What defence lessons can Taiwan learn from Ukraine?
Date: August 7, 2026
Host: Emma Nelson & Guy Delaunay
Key Guests:

• Alessio Patalano, Professor at King’s College London, Asian defence expert
• Alira Nechliivko, Ukrainian political scientist & CEO of St. James’s Foreign Policy Group
• William Yang, Senior Northeast Asia Analyst, International Crisis Group (joining from Taipei)

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Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode examines the complex and evolving relationship between Taiwan and Ukraine, exploring what Taiwan can learn from Ukraine’s defence efforts in the wake of Russia's invasion. The conversation explores strategic, technological, and diplomatic lessons, with a focus on the challenges posed by geography, sovereignty, and the changing global order under heightened tensions with China.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parallel Existential Threats & Deepening Ties

• Both Ukraine and Taiwan face aggressive, larger neighbors (Russia and China) threatening their sovereignty.
• Despite the physical distance and lack of formal recognition (Ukraine adheres to the One China policy), both countries have been quietly deepening their cooperation, especially since the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.
• Taiwan has closely observed Ukraine since 2014, learning valuable lessons about national resilience and societal mobilization in the face of large-scale threats.

“Asia was more alarmed by what was happening in Europe than Europe itself...it’s very interesting.”
– Alira Nechliivko (05:11)

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2. Diplomacy, Recognition, & the Limits of Official Cooperation

• Ukraine cannot formally recognize Taiwan without antagonizing China, due to longstanding policy and Russia-China ties.
• Most collaboration and dialogue happens informally, via private sector and behind-the-scenes discussions, particularly on resilience and decentralization.

“There is little expectation of a clear formal recognition because…it would be problematic for all sorts of reasons, precisely because of that Russia, China tie.”
– Alessio Patalano (06:54)

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3. The Comparative Geography & Societal Resilience

• Taiwan’s small size and unique geography:
  • “Taiwan is about a third of the Donbas region…and half as mountainous as Afghanistan, half as flat as the Padana Valley.”
  • The complexity of the landscape makes timing and organization of defence critical for Taiwan.
• Comparing Ukraine and Taiwan shows the value of “societal responses” — decentralizing resilience, preparing populations, and leveraging civil society.

“For those listening in who have no familiarity with comparative geography… you don’t really have a lot of space in Taiwan; it’s tiny…”
– Alessio Patalano (08:24)

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4. Technological Synergies: Drones, Semiconductors, and Battlefield Innovations

• Ukraine has pioneered domestic drone manufacturing and integrated drone warfare effectively into its defence.
• Taiwan is absorbing Ukraine’s “asymmetric” tactics, moving to adopt agile, battle-proven weaponry and manufacturing capabilities, especially with drones.
• Informal cooperation: Ukrainian-designed drones are produced and tested in Taiwan. Due to lack of formal diplomatic ties, all agreements are unofficial, with technology and intellectual property still rooted in Ukraine.

“One of the biggest lessons that Taiwan is trying to acquire from Ukraine is how the Ukrainians have been so effectively establishing their domestic drone manufacturing capacity and warfare tactics…”
– William Yang (09:10)

“Even all of the defence partnerships…Ukraine allows Western companies to create joint ventures, but everything goes back to Ukraine to install the software, to test on the battlefield.”
– Alira Nechliivko (11:37)

“Taiwan can be isolated very quickly. That’s when I think they realize the necessity of drones, both aerial and maritime.”
– Alira Nechliivko (12:46)

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5. Strategic Vulnerabilities & The Logic of Isolation

• Unlike Ukraine, which shares borders with numerous NATO and European Union countries (allowing for resupply and humanitarian support), Taiwan is an island and could be swiftly isolated by Chinese blockade or attack.
• The maritime dimension is crucial, pushing Taiwan to develop not just aerial but also maritime and subsea drone capabilities.

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6. The Rules-Based Order, Sovereignty, and Moral Underpinnings

• The underpinning of both Ukraine’s and Taiwan’s struggles is a shared commitment to sovereignty and the traditional rules-based international order, even as those norms are eroded globally.
• The challenges of upholding those orders are made greater by shifts in US policy and credibility, and China’s increasing diplomatic assertiveness.

“The question of sovereignty is absolutely at the heart...It’s as foundational to the international order as it possibly can be.”
– Alessio Patalano (14:27)

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7. Taiwan’s Geopolitical Anxiety & Eroding International Confidence

• Taiwanese confidence in international support is “increasingly shrinking.”
• US support looks less reliable, especially in light of the Trump administration’s transactional approach and US distractions elsewhere (e.g., Middle East).
• China has stepped up its campaign to diplomatically marginalize Taiwan.

“That confidence with regard to international support for Taiwan’s de facto sovereignty is increasingly shrinking ... the biggest difference is that Ukraine … was already a sovereign country when it was invaded ... Taiwan does not have a NATO.”
– William Yang (17:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the psychology of modern alliances:

  “Are we now looking at countries which wish to adhere to the old fashioned rules-based order in a world where that just seems to many a dream?”
  – Emma Nelson (13:50)

• On the strategic lessons from Ukraine:

  “What are the things that concern them?... it’s not an outright invasion, but it’s that strangulation or decapitation—like the failed attempt at taking Kyiv in the first weeks of the war.”
  – Alessio Patalano (14:41)

• Summing up the fragility of Taiwan’s position:

  “For Taiwan, it has no option of hedging... It is actually now feeling more and more exposed and vulnerable as the long-standing support that it relies on is essentially in question.”
  – William Yang (18:58)

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• 04:14 – Framing the Ukraine/Taiwan parallel: military threat, technology, deepening relations
• 05:11 – Nechliivko on One China, unofficial relations, Asia’s alarm post-2014/2022
• 06:54 – Patalano on the recognition dilemma and nature of collaboration
• 08:24 – Patalano on geography: Taiwan vs Donbas, resilience, societal organization
• 09:10 – Yang on drones, asymmetric defence, and adapting Ukraine’s tactics to the island context
• 11:37 – Nechliivko on technological exchange, informal drone partnerships, and the impact of Taiwan’s geography
• 13:50 – Pivot to moral/ethical purpose: sovereignty, rules-based order
• 14:27 – Patalano deep dive on sovereignty, international law, and lived vulnerability
• 17:27 – Yang’s assessment of shrinking international confidence for Taiwan
• 19:27 – Closing acknowledgements of expert guests

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Overall Episode Tone & Takeaways

The discussion is intelligent, serious, and measured, reflecting the gravity of the Taiwan/Ukraine dilemma, but also quite pragmatic about the diplomatic and strategic limitations both countries face. The guests blend high-level analysis with real-world, practical examples (e.g., the logistical difference of supporting Ukraine via land vs Taiwan via sea).

The episode repeatedly underscores:

• The value of societal resilience and innovation under threat.
• The need for informal, flexible alliances when formal ones are blocked by geopolitics.
• The accelerating arms race in drone and asymmetric warfare.
• The existential ambiguity and vulnerability facing Taiwan as the global order shifts.

Listeners finish with a nuanced understanding of why Taiwan studies Ukraine closely, which lessons can be applied, and the stark limitations of geography and alliances in confronting an aggressive neighbor.

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For listeners:
This episode is a masterclass in how contemporary geopolitics, innovation, and sovereignty intersect, and serves as a reality check for the fragile state of international security in 2026.

Transcript

[UBS Narrator]

Craft matters in small ways like how a coffee is brewed, and in not so small ways like how your money is cared for. Which is why for 160 years, UBS has elevated banking to a craft, tailoring unique strategies that combine human expertise with the latest technologies, all happening across 24 time zones and and 12 key financial hubs. With you at the heart of it all, UBS advice is our craft.

[Emma Nelson]

You're listening to the Globalist, first broadcast on 7 August 2026 on Monocle Radio. The Globalist in association with U. Live from London. This is the Globalist with me, Emma

[Guy Delaunay]

Nelson and I'm Guy Delaunay. This is what's coming up. That's the sound of military drills in Taiwan where they've been getting advice from Ukraine on how to deal with a hungry superpower neighborhood.

[Emma Nelson]

Also ahead on today's program, a glance at the newspapers.

[Edi Rama]

And sometimes even your worst enemy is telling something that you need to think about.

[Guy Delaunay]

That'll be my intriguing encounter with Albania's Prime Minister Edi Rama, which you can find in Monocle's summer newspaper as well as right here on the Globalist. That's all coming up with me, Guy

[Emma Nelson]

Delaunay and me, Emma Nelson, live from London. Well, this is a thing, Guy de Launnie, isn't it? Emma Nelson, to see you in the studio when you're normally by the side of a lake or going to something somewhere with dynamic news importance and yet we have you trapped in a studio for the next hour.

[Guy Delaunay]

It's feeling terribly exotic to me, Emma.

[Emma Nelson]

Okay, well, we'll try and hold your hand. And it's not the first time that we've done this.

[Guy Delaunay]

It is not the first time we've done this, but it's the first time for quite a few years, isn't it? Because the old two handed Globalist has not been around for a little while. It's making a bit of a comeback and I rather get the feeling that we're making this up as we go along.

[Emma Nelson]

No, this is studiously planned. We have done the work. Guy Delaunay, tell everybody that we've done the work.

[Guy Delaunay]

We've done the work. We were up late last night preparing, up early morning preparing as well.

[Emma Nelson]

You can also hear giggles from our studio guests Alessia Pasilano and Alira Nechliivko. We're going to be dealing with some pretty serious stuff in a minute when it comes to Taiwan and Ukraine. But let's kick this thing off with a bit of a glance at what's happening in today's news.

[Guy Delaunay]

So Meta has been fined more than half a billion dollars over child safety and been told by a court in the US to change how young people use its platforms. A first day of talks between government and opposition delegates in Venezuela have concluded they've promised to continue good faith negotiations in search of a possible political transition. And Indonesia is to welcome the Airbus A380 800, the world's largest passenger plane, at its main international airport for the first time on Saturday. And it's a wonderful to fly on. Emma, have you ever enjoyed that particular one?

[Emma Nelson]

I have. It's an absolute beauty. But you know, the, the sting in the Indonesian tale story is that they're flying it back to Dubai and there are no plans for it to go back to Jakarta again. So it's a one hit wonder, ladies.

[Guy Delaunay]

And I'm rather gutted that they no longer produce the A38800 as well. So it's a bit of a one and done really, which is hopefully not what we will be doing here on the Globalists. Stay tuned to Monocle Radio throughout the day for more on all those stories.

[Emma Nelson]

Let's look at our top story though. Ukraine and Taiwan may be separated by 8,000km, but facing a similar existential problem, how to preserve their sovereignty and territorial integrity in the face of a rapacious and much larger neighbor.

[Guy Delaunay]

And it's now more than four years since Russia invaded Ukraine while Taiwan, of course lives under perpetual threat from China. Both countries have developed world leading capacity and technology. The Ukrainians with drones and the Taiwanese of course with semiconductors.

[Emma Nelson]

So it's not surprising that the relationship between the two countries has been deepening even though Ukraine doesn't officially recognize Thailand. Well, we're joined now in the studio by Alessio Pantolano, professor at King's College London and an expert on Asian defence. And Aliya Naklivko, who's a Ukrainian political scientist and a foreign policy expert. She's also the founder and CEO of St. James's Foreign Policy Group. And down the line in Taiwan is William Yang, senior Northeast Asia analyst for the International Crisis Group. Welcome all. Good morning. Good afternoon.

[Alira Nechliivko]

Good morning.

[Emma Nelson]

Let's begin with you, Alena. That's this idea that the countries are now talking to each other. Talk us through what's happening.

[Alira Nechliivko]

So indeed, Ukraine has signed up in 1992, one year after its independence, to the One China policy. So it does not officially recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country. Taiwan, on the other hand, has also maintained friendly relations with Ukraine, especially since the invasion. But they have been very cautious not to aggravate China too much, given China's agreement with Russia on all encompassing support and security arrangements since 2022. But Taiwan has started looking very, very carefully at what's going on in Ukraine in 2014 during the first invasion and then following in 2022. I think the alarms were raised throughout all of Asia. Actually, it's very interesting that Asia was more alarmed by what was happening in Europe than Europe itself. Japan had similar concerns. So they started looking at what' to a country, a weakened country when it has a very aggressive big neighbor on its border who hasn't given up its imperial ambition. And that what's driven the cooperation, even though the unofficial one mostly tracked to diplomacy, mostly behind the scenes discussions and private sector engagement that is now driving Taiwan's resilience program.

[Guy Delaunay]

Well, Alessia, it does seem when you look at the parallels, the parallels are absolutely obvious here. How much does it get in the way though the one China policy and the fact that Ukraine can't officially recognize Taiwan, or if it did, it would probably cause more problems than it solved.

[Alessia Pasilano]

So I think here we're talking about two slightly different questions. One is the political question of the recognition of Taiwan. I think that Taiwanese authorities do not have in the ideal world, of course, that's the ultimate sort of objectives. But at the same time, on a daily basis there is little expectation of a clear formal recognition because as you were pointing out earlier, it would be problematic for all sorts of reasons precisely because of that Russia, China tie. So that's a slightly different question from if you want the interaction because ever since the spring of 2023, I was in Taiwan the whole summer of 2023 and the largest SoR national contribution, if you want, or presence in delegations visiting Taiwan from Europe was composed by Ukrainians and predominantly was actors that were coming from the industrial sector and particularly also those who at the regional level in Ukraine had helped organizing the if you want the societal resilience piece, which from a Taiwanese perspective is where that convergence really is striking. Particularly because for those of those who are listening in, who have no familiarity with the comparative geography, what we're talking about is that Taiwan, the whole of Taiwan, is about a little more than a third of the Donbas region. So you don't really have.

[Emma Nelson]

It's tiny.

[Alessia Pasilano]

It's tiny, right. But at the same time, half of the country is as mountainous as Afghanistan and half of it is as flat as the Padana Valley. Right. So you've got their very peculiar Kind of arrangements which since the beginning put that question of national resilience and societal responses at the very heart. Because timing in any context around scenarios for Taiwan would be absolutely of the essence.

[Emma Nelson]

William, let's head to you in Taipei, Alessia. There was talking about the fact that the geography is different, but the idea that when you have different geographies of expertise coming together is quite a valuable thought, isn't it?

[William Yang]

Right.

[Emma Nelson]

Indeed.

[William Yang]

You know, I think one of the biggest lessons that Taiwan is trying to acquire from Ukraine is how the Ukrainians have been so effectively establishing their domestic drone manufacturing capacity and actually incorporate the drone warfare tactics so effectively into their overall strategy. And it has been proven to be quite effective in targeting specific infrastructure targets across Russia and inflicting I think pains, you know, at Russia and you know, sustaining their combat capabilities in such a, you know, a scenario where the power symmetry is actually working against Ukraine. So I think Taiwan is trying to incorporate a lot of that so called asymmetric capability and also warfare tactics that has been learned from Ukraine. And on the other hand, I think Taiwan has been prioritizing trying to acquire a lot of the weapon systems that has been battle tested to be effective for a smaller power like Taiwan. But on the other hand, I think what Alessio has already pointed out is that the comparison only works to an extent and there are, you know, I think other areas of the differences that Taiwan also needs to identify, which is the fact that it is an island that is being surrounded by water and the Chinese has a different strategy to try to impose pressure on Taiwan and potentially, you know, launch a potential military attack against Taiwan. So I think these are the areas where Taiwan needs to sort of like identify and distinguish when it identifies, you know, pursues the deeper cooperation and collaboration and exchange with Ukraine.

[Guy Delaunay]

There's matters of that sort of strategy, Alena, but there's also the technological synergies, if you like. I mean, just as a personal example from my own reporting, I was recently in Croatia where they've restarted conscription and I was interested to discover that they have a drone manufacturer called Orca which has established a factory in Ukraine in an underground factory for drones in Ukraine. Now there's an obvious synergy there with the Taiwanese semiconductor capacity. How is this? Is these links being formalized now?

[Alira Nechliivko]

They're not quite formal yet, I would say because a Ukraine has to be very careful with exporting any of its production. There are Ukrainian current export on military intelligence, first and foremost intellectual property. On drones, it's not so much the hardware which is being produced abroad, but the IP's still all goes back to Ukraine. So even all of the defence partnerships that we're seeing being formed across Europe that are getting announced is Ukraine allowing for the Western companies to create joint ventures with Ukrainians. They produce hardware abroad like in Germany here in the UK with one of the companies, but everything goes back to Ukraine to kind of install the software to test on the battlefield and then to be deployed either in Ukraine or in stockpiles across the country. So the same issue, and that is with official agreements, imagine if you can't have an official bilateral agreement with Taiwan, so everything goes back to informal ties, effectively when you can see reporting still that there is Ukrainian designed, as they carefully call it, drones in Taiwan or some of the produced drones in Taiwan, aerial mostly go into testing in Ukraine, but there's definitely now one drone manufacturer in Taiwan that produces Ukrainian designed drones. And they say but what's very interesting about this going back to geography, I've spoken one of the closed roundtables in 2022 when some Taiwanese came to London to learn lessons from Ukraine. And they were saying that it's not even just the fact that it's smaller or that it's in a completely different part of the world, but Ukraine has a luxury as they saw it then, of being part of Europe, of having so many European, including NATO countries on its border. So the flow of weapons, the flow of humanitarian aid, it would still going in, whereas Taiwan can be isolated very quickly. That's when I think they realize the necessity of drones, both aerial and maritime. And there's a lot of drawing on experience of maritime drones and subsea drones which are now proliferating across the world too.

[Emma Nelson]

Alessia, thank you for that. Eliona, let's move away from the geography of things. And Alessia, let's talk about the broader issues of what underpins all this. In a world where loyalties switch overnight, are we looking perhaps that when you have the Taiwanese and the Ukrainians talking to each other, teaming up as much as they can, is there now a sort of a moral and ethical underpinning to all this? That we are now looking at countries which wish to adhere to the old fashioned rules based order in a world where that just seems to many a dream?

[Alessia Pasilano]

I think at heart here what we're talking about, and I think it's been alluded already on a couple of sort of earlier points raised, is the question of sovereignty and respective sovereign national territory is absolutely the heart that's as foundational to the international order as it possibly can be. Right. And I don't think we're not disposing of that idea. If nothing else, we are reverting back to that core meeting. I mean just earlier on today, a few hours ago, as part of the annual summer exercises, the Taiwanese closed the main bridge that basically links sort of main downtown Taipei towards the mouth of the river Tank Tree. And you know, that really tells you something about what are the things that they concern them. Because of course one of the key problem here from a Taiwanese perspective is as Liana was alluding to earlier, it's not an outright invasion, but it's that strangulation or decapitation. You know, it's like one of the things that the Tamils are very concerned about is sort of like a successful version of what was the failed attempt at taking Kyiv in the very first weeks of the war, the full scale invasion of Ukraine. And that tells you something about here what we're talking about is that concept of sovereignty. This is very much central to international relations that is about that sort of self governance piece that is central to Taiwan, which even if you are in one China policy space, you subscribe to this idea that there is an element of governance in that place that is on its own the sort of one country to system idea that underpins that one China policy is there. Yes, in many respects. The behavior of many actors, including those that are closer to us for alliances reasons like the United States are sometimes at odd because they speak to their specific exceptionalism to certain components of the international rule based order. Take for example the fact that the United States are in a maritime space at the moment, taking full extent and advantage of the fact that they respect anclos, the United Nations Convention of the as customary law. But they're not party to the agreement. So that allows them to have wiggle room around the exceptional bits of it. Right. But it's always done in reference to those rules. The rules are still there even if you try to play as much as you can to that, et cetera. And perhaps the most core fundamental one is one about national sovereign space and national sovereign territory.

[Guy Delaunay]

A quick one to you, William. I think as you're there, I think everybody knows that Taiwan exists in this kind of. I don't know if we can call it a fudge space. Exactly. But being in the region I'm in, I always look at Kosovo and its status and what we need is a workable fudge. And we've had a workable fudge with Taiwan for a long time. Are people There still confident that the fudge is still workable.

[William Yang]

It's in fact, I think that confidence with regard to international support for Taiwan's de facto sovereignty is increasingly shrinking. People's anxiety is rising, I think simply because of the fact that the rules based order and also the US role in leading that, you know, sort of like support for Taiwan is in question because of the Trump administration's pivot toward a more transactional type of foreign policy orientation. And at the same time, China has increasingly been squeezing Taiwan's international space just over the last few months, blocking Taiwan from participation in unofficial capacities in different international conferences and you know, sabotaging, interfering in Taiwanese government's plan to visit other countries that it still holds diplomatic ties with. And at the same time the US is distracted by an ongoing conflict in the Middle east and not really able to reorient its focus to Asia in the long term competition with China. And you know, I think kind of like alluding back to what the other two guests have written already mentioned is that the biggest difference line between Taiwan and Ukraine is that Ukraine was already a sovereign country when it was invaded by Russia. On the other hand, Taiwan and Europe has a NATO, you know, the EU and also NATO's framework to kind of hold it together. But in Asia there is no such a military or defense alliance right there. And at the same time, all these countries have long relied on U.S. leadership. And at this point that commitment and credibility of that leadership is in question. And all the countries in this region are hedging between the two great powers. But for Taiwan, it has no option of hedging on, you know, the other direction. So in fact, it is actually now feeling more and more exposed and vulnerable as the long standing support that it relies on is essentially in question.

[Guy Delaunay]

Thank you, William. And from Taiwan, that was William Yang, the senior Northeast Asia Analyst for the International Crisis Group.

[Emma Nelson]

And thanks also to our studio guests, Al who's the Ukrainian political scientist and foreign policy expert and Alessio Pasolano professor at King's College London. You're listening to the Globalist.

[UBS Narrator]

Craft is a matter of perspective, a unique outlook and obsessive attention to detail. With UBS's Chief Investment Office House View, we're focused on identifying the latest investment opportunities and market risks to help you you achieve your financial goals. So you get the big picture broken down into thought provoking insights delivered daily and curated by over 200 globally connected, locally active analysts. UBS banking is our craft.

[Guy Delaunay]

You're listening to the Globalist on Monocle Radio where it has just turned Bing. 7:20 in the morning here in London.

[Emma Nelson]

Not everyone can see the clock guy. But is the Bing the illustrative radio thing?

[Guy Delaunay]

Absolutely. You know, we have the pips.

[Emma Nelson]

Well, we have the Bings and the countdown.

[Guy Delaunay]

I had to do something. I mean, you've got to vocalize these things. I mean, look, what do we learn about radio? You've got to paint pictures with sound and I hope I did that in a small way there.

[Emma Nelson]

And no one else on earth can count backwards like we can.

[Guy Delaunay]

Indeed.

[Emma Nelson]

Back timing, Back timing. Back timing. Another king of back timing. Chris Chermack. Hello.

[Chris Chermack]

Hello.

[Emma Nelson]

You've brought an enormous cup of very smart looking coffee.

[Chris Chermack]

Well, I mean it is early in the morning and listeners will know that I've actually been on the globe list a few times this week. So you know, coffee keeps me going. I need a big cup.

[Guy Delaunay]

Big is relative here. It's big by monocle standards, isn't it? It's still elegant.

[Chris Chermack]

Oh yeah, that's true. At home I actually have a much larger mug than.

[Guy Delaunay]

I tend to have one of those Garfield size mugs.

[Emma Nelson]

Exactly. Do you have anything written on it?

[Chris Chermack]

Do I have anything written on it?

[Emma Nelson]

No, that's a secret you need to share.

[Chris Chermack]

What do I have? What do I have at home? Well, I mean I have lots of mugs. I like collecting Christmas mugs, so I have quite a few of those from different Christmas markets in Germany and Austria, things like that. Even one from Philadelphia and a few from the States. So yes, that is, that is my coffee mug collection.

[Alessia Pasilano]

How's that?

[Emma Nelson]

That great Philadelphia and German Christmas market mug.

[Chris Chermack]

Exactly.

[Emma Nelson]

There's a market for there somewhere.

[Guy Delaunay]

Traditions are important, Chris.

[Chris Chermack]

Yes, they are.

[Emma Nelson]

And they make you feel comfortable as well. There is something that, I mean. Okay, we'll go into the papers in a second. But the idea of the, the emotional comfort that a mug at home brings is actually rather, it's rather profound, isn't it? You've traveled all over the world. How. What happens when the mug comes out of the box?

[Guy Delaunay]

Yeah, I was just thinking actually, the mugs that we have in our cupboard and surprise, surprise, a lot of them have things like red buses and red telephone boxes on them. Cause people give them to us because I think they think that, you know, we are.

[Chris Chermack]

You need a gift from London.

[Guy Delaunay]

That's it that we're missing. I mean, of course I'm from Liverpool, so it's like. But I did live in London for 10 years, so it's, it's, it's, it's understandable. But I don't have any Liverpool mugs in the house, but I do have multiple symbols of London and indeed Kingston, where my sister is from. Kingston upon Thames.

[Emma Nelson]

Not Jamaica?

[Guy Delaunay]

No, not Kingston, Jamaica. Now that would be more interesting, wouldn't it?

[Emma Nelson]

Well, you've been given a challenge to get Guy Delaunay a Liverpool mug. Papers time, Chris.

[Guy Delaunay]

Yeah, I can see something here about. Oh yes, we've just been talking drones, of course, and I think this is another example here, Chris, isn't it, of how drones are changing everything in the security sphere because of this drone. Now with explosives laden on board. This drone was found at Leipzig Halle Airport. What's the latest on this?

[Chris Chermack]

This is a really interesting story, especially off the back of what you were just talking about, as you say, Guy, because Germany is really worried here. This has become a hu story in Germany about this explosive laden drone that was found at Leipzig Halle Airport on Tuesday night. Some of the interesting details I grabbed them from, in this case the Leipziger Volkszeitzung, just to give a little shout out to the regional newspapers around the world. They've of course been covering this story closely. The drone was discovered by a bus driver. So that in itself shows, I think, how much even Germany is still caught off guard by something like this. They don't have systems in place necessarily. Drone detection, detection systems are supposed to come to German airports by the end of this year, including Leipzig. They don't really have a proper one that taps into the German Federal Police at this moment, only Frankfurt does. So the fact that this drone had to be discovered by a bus driver, the fact that this is an airport that is used for cargo and freight to Ukraine, it's also a sort of hub for NATO in that sense as well. This drone was found near a Ukrainian cargo plane and it could have exploded there. So it's being seen as potentially a new phase in this hybrid war with. I don't want to necessarily speculate, but certainly it fits into the hybrid war we're seeing with Russia. Although it must be said, at this point we do not know who was behind this. That's also part of the scary aspect of this, isn't it? The fact that nobody really knows it was a professionally adapted drone, but one that you can acquire from anywhere. So we don't know who's behind it at this point. They are investigating, investigating.

[Emma Nelson]

This plays into a very, very strong narrative that the Russians will enjoy. The fact that you said we don't know.

[Thomas Parry]

Yes.

[Emma Nelson]

Who gave us this, who planted this drone? And it's. It's not inconsiderable. I think it's what, 800 grams of explosives on it, that's nigh on a kilo. And it doesn't really matter if it was a Russian agent or a Russian or a splinter group or whoever. People are initially thinking that this is Russia's ability to destabilize our air splinter 100%.

[Chris Chermack]

And the fact that it was cheaply made, even if it was say just an ally of Russia in some way or an individual, that would be bad enough, a supporter. So yes, the fact that this is what hybrid warfare is about, isn't it? It's about the fact that it creates fear among citizens in Europe. And so you are seeing that in Germany, but I think you're also seeing German policymakers almost use this perhaps as an opportunity to once again try to wake up the politician and themselves, I think to the dangers around this. Alexander Dobr in the Inter Minister really making a point of saying this is a new phase, a new danger. They have never seen an explosive laden drone at a German airport before. They've had lots of sightings of drones. This has been an issue, as we know here in London and so many different airports as well. But they've been drones for surveillance. This is the first time it has stepped up to another level.

[Guy Delaunay]

And is this a domestic drone or military drone or something in between?

[Chris Chermack]

Something in between. So they have said that these were clearly professional actors, at least that's what Alexander Dobrind said. These were not amateurs in terms of the drone, but it was a regular drone that was adapted to add explosives to it. It was not a military drone, which is why they don't know the source.

[Emma Nelson]

Right, let's move on to another German language paper, Der Standard. The Austrian Chancellor has really put his foot in it in the middle of the time when most people are on holiday and one of the most heated debates that can take place between two parents is who's in charge of the kids when we're supposed to be having a rest. This is not something that German the Austrian Chancellor has taken on board. He hasn't really read the room.

[Chris Chermack]

No, he has absolutely not read the room. And I think this is so interesting because as you mentioned, it is summer. One has to give have some sympathies for the Austrian Chancellor Christian Stocker here because most politicians are on holiday at this point. He is doing the rounds. He is doing a summer tour of town halls basically around the house.

[Emma Nelson]

He's not doing the childcare though, is he?

[Chris Chermack]

He's not doing the Childcare. And he has acknowledged that. So this is the point. He has managed to put his foot in it during this tour. When a questioner basically asked about the fact that women in Austria offer. Let me find the number for you.

[Emma Nelson]

But might be 96 hours of unpaid childcare per week.

[Chris Chermack]

96 hours of unpaid childcare per week. Thank you. I think it's important that you said that, Emma, as a working mother, as it were. And I think.

[Alira Nechliivko]

Think it's.

[Chris Chermack]

It's just so interesting that that was very bad now.

[Emma Nelson]

I was really bad.

[Guy Delaunay]

I get steamers now emitting from Amazon.

[Emma Nelson]

You might wish.

[Chris Chermack]

You might have even gotten to the Austrian Chancellor.

[Emma Nelson]

You might also want to say that Guy is a working father. But that is just as.

[Chris Chermack]

That is very true. I haven't dealt with Guy in the studio.

[Guy Delaunay]

It's a very interesting. But it's a very interesting conundrum. I mean, if we go back to 70s and 80s game shows, the likes of which I certainly grew up with, you would get. When they were doing the chat, and clearly the host would never give two hoots about really what the people were doing in their lives. But you'd often get contestants who say, I'm just a housewife. And the host was required to say, almost as if by law, ooh, that's the hardest job in the world. That was the banter that used to exist back then.

[Alira Nechliivko]

Indeed.

[Emma Nelson]

And I don't think we've moved much forward from there in the last two minutes.

[Chris Chermack]

No, we certainly haven't. And I have put my foot in it even more than the Austrian Chancellor, who, I should just add, his comment here was that child minding is not unpaid work. And this has gotten him, of course, into a huge amount of trouble. He says he does not see it as unpaid work. And it just strikes me, obviously, I have put my foot in it. This is why I am not a politician myself. But you would think that an Austrian Chancellor would be a little more aware of what he is sounding like and not creating a scandal for him himself. In the summer, opposition groups, of course, jumped on this. Leonore Gewesler, the Green Opposition leader, wrote him a note saying, dear Chancellor, mothers love mothers work. Mothers take care of children. Mothers do unbelievable work. They keep the country running. Mothers work unpaid.

[Emma Nelson]

It's interesting two points from this, though. First of all, the Chancellor was doing a. He was doing a bit of a tour, wasn't he, when it's like Meet the Public, which frankly isn't a bad thing.

[Chris Chermack]

Well, that's my point exactly. In the summer, when Other. When other chancellors are on holiday, other politicians.

[Emma Nelson]

But is there a more structured, dare I say it, are. We. Are we do areas of Austrian, areas of that part of the world, there is still a massive adherence to tradition. For starters, it's very, very. You know, people still go to church every Sunday in their tract. But is there still occasionally the sense that that 70s game show that Guy Delaunay was talking about a moment ago might. Might have a slightly louder voice than it might do another nature?

[Chris Chermack]

Yes, I think that's fair. And maybe to Guy's point, I think the Austrian traditional public might have wanted that standard answer that you were giving from others from back in the 70s, at least that would have been better than the answer that the Austrian Chancellor gave about mothers not counting as unpaid work.

[Guy Delaunay]

It's a shocker. Are you a father, Chris? I've blown my own joke here. Can we just rewind two seconds there, Chris, do you have children?

[Chris Chermack]

I do not have children.

[Guy Delaunay]

Would you like mine? Oh, dear. It's too early in the morning for that sort of stuff.

[Chris Chermack]

Too early in the morning for retaking jokes, Guy.

[Guy Delaunay]

Moving on, Ratman. My children are now at the point where they can drink in pubs.

[Emma Nelson]

And how old are they, Guy? Even though they're only 12.

[Guy Delaunay]

You know, in Slovenia, it's different, isn't it? But anyway. But we're in London at the moment, at least some of us are, and. And they are now at the edge where they can drink in pubs. And as we're walking through London the other day, my daughter Leela said to me, which is your favorite pub in London? I said, you know, I used to really like the Pillars of Hercules in Soho. And we went there and something dreadful has happened to the Pillars of Hercules. So I wouldn't recommend it, but there were a lot of people. And we're going back into the stories here, Chris. A lot of people were standing up outside what used to be the Pillars of Hercules, and there's now something unspeakable in Soho, and they were standing up and drinking. And apparently Westminster City Council, whom we all know and love and respect as one of the most upstanding institutions in the country, is very down on this

[Chris Chermack]

sort of thing, which is why I brought this story particularly to you, Guy and Emma, as well as the Brits here, who can explain this to me, because, yes, Westminster Council is trying to limit standing in pubs and they want to stop essentially ban vertical drinking, as they call it, and stay vertical for long dress ordering at the bar in a new draft licensing policy. And what strikes me as well is that Downing street is having to step in here to crack down on such an idea and also saying that standing in a pub is British life. So I am glad that guy, you have brought us that example because I was quite struck by this in the opposite way. I remember coming here from living in Berlin and being kind of shocked by the idea that you always have to stand in a pub here after being in Berlin where you get to sit down, you have wonderful table service, it's less busy. Isn't that actually a nice thing? I don't understand to sit down or to stand up, to sit down and have table service. I don't understand this fascination here in the UK that even Downing street would consider it sort of popular, a popular measure for the government to step in and restrict this idea of trying to restrict vertical drinking.

[Alessia Pasilano]

You really are.

[Chris Chermack]

Isn't it good to encourage sitting down at the pub?

[Emma Nelson]

We're going to have to leave it there. But Chris, you're really not doing yourself any favors this morning. Chris, thank you so much for joining us in the studio.

[Thomas Parry]

Still to come, lamb, potatoes and lobster. These things just shout in the UK to me. So I kind of wanted it to be a celebration of the uk, but the dish is not to be kind of, let's say, too stereotypical.

[Guy Delaunay]

That's the Michelin star scoffing chef Thomas Parry, bringing a touch of British cuisine. We've had the British booze, now the British cuisine and he's bringing that to the skies. You're listening to what?

[Emma Nelson]

Sit down everybody.

[Guy Delaunay]

Quite so. You're listening to Monocle Radio.

[Emma Nelson]

Now a quick look at some of the other stories we're keeping an eye on today. Meta has been fined more than half a billion dollars over child safety and has been told by a court in the United States to change how young people use its platforms. The judge said the contribution Meta made to a mental health crisis meant it could be called a public nuisance. There's been a school shooting near to the Thai capital of Bangkok. Reports say up to six people have been killed and 14 injured. The suspect of 14 year old boy is believed to be dead. Hundreds of thousands of people in southwestern Japan have been ordered to evacuate from their homes as Typhoon Dolphin approaches the region bringing violent winds, heavy rain and high waves. More than 500 flights have been cancelled as the Category 1 typhoon approaches. A chain of islands between the Kyushu region and Okinawa prefecture. And Indonesia is to welcome the Airbus A380 800, the world's largest passenger plane at its main international Airport for the first time on Saturday, Emirates Flight EK358 is scheduled to land in Jakarta from Dubai before returning to its base a few hours later. There are no confirmed plans for additional flights using the same aircraft. This is the Globalist. Stay tuned.

[Guy Delaunay]

It is 8:34 in Zurich and 7:34 in Anglesey. No pings this time, Emma.

[Emma Nelson]

No pings, Just lamb.

[Guy Delaunay]

Indeed. And, well, I've got this being done as being read by you, but I'm going to go ahead and read it anyway. One of the crucial things the chef Thomas Parry has learned while developing a new range of food he's created for international business class flights is that you can't grill anything on board a Boeing 777.

[Emma Nelson]

Which frankly is a shame.

[Guy Delaunay]

Isn't it though?

[Emma Nelson]

Because isn't there anything else you want to do than get the barbecue up?

[Guy Delaunay]

Well, quite, yeah. I've had all sorts on flights which have been served to me, which I was pretty sure were grilled, I would have thought. I mean, I've had steaks on flights and so forth.

[Emma Nelson]

You've had a steak on a flight?

[Guy Delaunay]

Yeah, I have.

[Emma Nelson]

Goodness me. My son was put on a plane to Washington a few weeks ago where they filled an entire 777 with a chicken tikka machine on an eight hour flight.

[Guy Delaunay]

Okay, well, I could regale you with tales of Bim and Bangladesh.

[Emma Nelson]

Excellent.

[Guy Delaunay]

At some point. But that sounds like the kind of thing which might happen there.

[Emma Nelson]

Let's talk about Thomas Parry then, the man behind London's amazing Michelin starred restaurants, Brat and Mountain, bringing the best of Britain and Wales to the service in the sky. Monocle's Anita Riota caught up with him.

[Thomas Parry]

It's funny because we cook everything over fire. Right. So you definitely can't do that on a plane. So I did have to think quite differently. So essentially what I applied was a similar kind of ethos. I tried to use local produce cooked over the fire and served quite simply with quite robust flavors because that kind of works in the sky. But the dishes aren't really that far away from what we do at the restaurants really. So on the menu you'll find a lot of kind of British produce that I've sourced from the same places that I normally get things from, which has given me real. That's what kind of made me excited really was the opportunity they allowed me to use my own supplier. So a lot of, you know, the produce comes from Wales. So it's really nice.

[Alira Nechliivko]

Nice.

[Anita Riota]

Can you tell us a bit about the British influences that you're bringing to these dishes.

[Thomas Parry]

So the British influence for me is again, obviously celebrating the seasonality and. And the fantastic produce you get from Britain. I try to make the dishes so they're exciting to eat. They're not too challenging because I don't think that's what you want. But they're also quite surprising that I think that it'll kind of make people quite excited that they're getting this type of quality. Quality. There's three courses on the first menu, and one of them celebrates the seafood that you get in the uk. The other two celebrate the. The meats and the vegetables. So if you start with the main course, actually it's. It's lamb from North Wales, from exactly where I'm from, which at the beginning they were. It was quite tricky to get on there, but we managed to do that. So it's quite a simple dish, as in, like a. It's grilled lamb shoulders, then it's slow cooked and served with like, smoked potatoes and grilled vegetables, like broccolini, and served with like a vivid green sa. Has a bit of wild garlic in there as well. I was keen that the dishes did reflect British cuisine, but not be too stodgy and heavy. So that what I did then was celebrated Welsh lobsters by making a salad of grilled peaches and lobster to go with the salad. I think the best lobsters in the world are from the uk, so it celebrates that. So it kind of beef and mustard, lamb, potatoes and lobster. These things just shout in the UK to me. So I kind of wanted it to be a celebration of the uk, but that this is not to be kind of, let's say, too stereotypical and definitely

[Anita Riota]

stodgy is not something you want up in the air. Well, Thomas, now I know you are used to being in the heat of the kitchen and needing to act fast, so if it's all right with you, I'm gonna pepper you with some quick fire questions and get just your take on a few things that I think our listeners would love to know more about. So I'm gonna kick you off with what's one ingredient you can't live with

[Thomas Parry]

without probably olive oil. Olive oil, like the best, best quality olive oil. That's really.

[Anita Riota]

I'm Sicilian. I think that's very interesting.

[Thomas Parry]

Yeah, yeah. It's like. I mean, we have reused like eight different types of the restaurants that mountain. So it's. And they've all got different purposes, as, you know, they all taste different. So, yeah, let's. You know what olive oil is actually Critical to what I do.

[Anita Riota]

What's one restaurant you never tire of?

[Thomas Parry]

There's actually quite a few, but I, I would say, who knows? Nan in Pimlico, don't know if you've been there. Or River Cafe, I think is still great. And also Ognisko, which is a Polish restaurant in South Kensington. So there's three for you there.

[Anita Riota]

I have some new recommendations in that bunch. Best new table in town, Impala.

[Thomas Parry]

I mean, it's kind of a self nom because it's our sister restaurant, but I'm going to go with that one. Okay.

[Anita Riota]

What is the most overlooked British dish?

[Thomas Parry]

We overlook our use of seaweeds, but a lot of different cultures across the world really celebrate it and they eat every day in different forms. But the UK has the best seaweed. Some of the best seaweeds in the world. It used to be in our diet a lot. And as a Welshman, there is a. A form of seaweed called lava bread, which is such a big part of the Welsh identity. So I would say, like edible seaweeds is really an underused resource in our. In our country. Also very good for you. Super nutritious and very sustainable. So there we go.

[Anita Riota]

I'm sure this next one will be very easy to sum up in a sentence. The secret to a restaurant is.

[Thomas Parry]

Oh, my God. Okay. Atmosphere, food and people, I guess. But if the food is good, but the atmosphere isn't great, that's a big no no. For me.

[Anita Riota]

An equally easy question. Good hospitality to you means authenticity?

[Thomas Parry]

I think so. If people have authentic service that is charming, it's warming, it's, it's. You make a connection. It doesn't need to be fake, over the top or anything. It just needs to be authenticity. You could be just running a fried chicken shop, but if it's done authentically,

[Anita Riota]

we will leave you because I know we're connecting to you from a closet in Mountain, in what I'm sure is a very busy period. So we won't take up too much more of your time. But before we let you go, I know you're heading home to Wales next month for something very excited. Could you tease it for us? Yes.

[Thomas Parry]

It's one of the favorite things I do. It's amazing. Once a year. Well, for the last three years, we've relocated all my restaurants. Restaurants, keeping the ones in London open, But relocating about 32 members of the team to create a restaurant in the forest in West Wales, next to sea and in the forest. So basically it's like brat goes to Wales. What we do is we create these extremely special moments. These dinners from Friday nights and Saturday night, just cooking from what's around us over fire, keeping the brat and mountain ethos, but just using the produce from literally down the road. Me being able to kind of show off Wales, it's such a special moment for me. And also it's great to see different parts of the country. Right. For these people, for the team, because the Welsh heritage terroir and produce is such a big part of the identity of the restaurants. You can also have lots of, like, walks. We go on trips to fish for the fish, get the cockles and clams. We make our own cheese, we make our own butters. It is very, very special and. And yeah, makes me very proud that we're able to do this. Cause as you can imagine, it's quite a big logistical thing to do, I'm sure, but it's worth every single bit of effort that it takes.

[Emma Nelson]

That was Thomas Parry talking to Anita Riota about regional food in the Sky. And you were waxing lyrical about your family connections to everything that Thomas was talking about. That guy.

[Guy Delaunay]

Indeed. Because my grandmother is from Anglesey. And not just from Anglesey, she is from. And wait for it. And perhaps, perhaps Don some sort of waterproof at this point.

[Andrew Muller]

Right.

[Guy Delaunay]

She, of course, is from Llanfaer.

[Andrew Muller]

Pothwingl.

[Guy Delaunay]

Gogarhondoro, Glantesilio, Goggulgoch.

[Emma Nelson]

Anything good happen there?

[Guy Delaunay]

They've got a very long railway station sign.

[Emma Nelson]

Excellent. Thank you so much for that. Gaeda Lunida. You're listening to Monocle Radio.

[Guy Delaunay]

It's now just coming up to 7:43. Is that precise enough for us, Emma?

[Thomas Parry]

Just coming up.

[Guy Delaunay]

If I wait about one second, I can do Bing. It's now 7:43.

[Emma Nelson]

You have just done that.

[Guy Delaunay]

There we go. 7:43 in London here at Midori House on the Globalist with myself, Guy Delaunay and Emma Nelson. And we're joined now by Tim Abrahams, the host of the Super Urbanism podcast. Welcome back to the Globalist, Tim. We're talking presidential centers this morning. Tim, what can you tell. Tell us.

[Tim Abrahams]

Good morning. What I can tell you is that two presidential libraries, they're now being. They were originally. This typology is a very American thing. Since the middle of the 20th century, a president leaves office, he creates his own library in a place of his choosing. Lots of people who he's worked with throughout his presidential career come forward, donate lots of money, and a huge, beautiful building is created. We have the Oblivion Bama Presidential center which has been completed in South Chicago. Just completed earlier this summer. But we also have a new and slightly strange addition to this. Theodore Roosevelt's Presidential library has been completed

[Guy Delaunay]

which as a while in the making.

[Tim Abrahams]

Yeah, as historians amongst us will know, that's been a kind of hundred years and we are seeing a kind of evolution of the idea. The, the Teddy Roosevelt building is in North Dakota in the badlands, overlooking a park, a national park which Roosevelt himself created and which was named after him. And this extraordinary building, built of rammed earth and locally sourced timber, one of the most sustainable buildings to be completed in the US in recent years has been completed. Beautiful building. But the synchronicity of both the Obama building and this new structure leads us to believe and to see see that this strange typology is evolving somewhat. The Obama building has been criticized for not really representing the folksy and charm and literacy of Obama. It's kind of been likened to a Klingon prison, even if its fans have kind of given it Star Wars y feeling. Say it looks like a rebel base. So you can pick and choose your science fiction analogy, but the building itself has. The building in North Dakota however, is a real architectural gem.

[Emma Nelson]

Just explain to us a little bit on a more wide, wider point, Tim, which is how the public reacts to buildings which should be taken rather seriously. I mean you mentioned there the fact that okay, we have the Teddy Roosevelt President library. It's got impeccable credentials when it comes to stay sustainability, which is one thing, but when there's been reaction to the Obama Presidential select center, as you say, it's, it's something from Star Wars. And, and how do architects feel when, for example, when, I don't know, St. Mary's ax is, is suddenly called the Gherkin or Roger Circum harbours create the cheese grater and everybody thinks you've reduced this to something that a five year old would rather relate to.

[Tim Abrahams]

Well, there's a lot of money being spent on creating buildings which actually pick up these affectionate nicknames. Iconic is something that architects strive for and one of the double edged swords of being iconic is you get nicknames. It is odd that the Obama building should be so. It looks like a monument. It is strange that Obama would. Would seek this given the fact that he's still alive. It's kind of like a. More. It's like creating your. It's like a writer writing his own obituary. It's like a. It's a living person creating a monument to themselves. And that's a strange thing to happen to these particular kinds of building given the fact that the first one was actually created for not Teddy Roosevelt, but his fifth cousin, another Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt. And he created a very, a kind of barn type structure just to house his presidential papers. And that kind of took on a new life. And it's now become to the degree to which the Obama building doesn't even contain the letters and papers anymore which have been digitized and are kept in the library and the originals are kept in the Library of Congress. So it's become a strange kind of gesture by presidents to themselves. Obviously they're currently incumbent of the White House isn't even waiting until the presidential library system comes around. He is in the process of his second term, Donald Trump, of creating these architectural gestures to himself over the summer. One of the most unpicked up really is the plans that he's hijacked for the Washington Dulles airport redevelopment, which were originally about 7 billion planned. $7 billion planned. But now he's got hold of it and has jacked that up to 20 billion. And the.

[Guy Delaunay]

Tim, we're going to have to actually wrap at this point, unfortunately. But I can think of a few architects who'd probably like to make gestures at Donald Trump, as I'm sure everybody else could.

[Tim Abrahams]

Depends how much he's paying.

[Guy Delaunay]

Thank you very much as always for joining us on the Globalist. You're listening to Monocle Radio.

[UBS Narrator]

Iq, EQ and AI. Three components key to the craft of innovation at ubs. Because to stay ahead in a rapidly evolving age, you need a partner with decades of experience, endless passion for the work and a finger on the pulse of leading technologies. Bridging human expertise with artificial intelligence. All to elevate you. UBS banking is our craft.

[Emma Nelson]

07:49 Here in London. Guy Delaunay, you may. Bing, bing. Thank you. It's the end of the week.

[Alira Nechliivko]

It's Friday.

[Emma Nelson]

Here's what we learned.

[Andrew Muller]

We learned this week how to spell dumb.

[Chris Chermack]

Biden and the radical left Democrats.

[Tim Abrahams]

I call them Democrats because their policies are so dumb.

[Alessia Pasilano]

Dumb.

[Chris Chermack]

You exchange the E with the U and nobody knows that dumb doesn't have a B.

[Andrew Muller]

Well, perhaps not your voters, chief, but anyway. This week's what We Learned news review on Monocle Radio is brought to you by the word dumb. But then when isn't it?

[Alira Nechliivko]

Yeah,

[Andrew Muller]

we learned for starters that whatever attention the US Administration may have been paying in English class appeared to have come at the expense of their concentration on geography.

[Guy Delaunay]

We all make mistakes, but the multi billion dollar US State Department shouldn't have

[Emma Nelson]

made this one at a major international conference. It has produced a map of Africa that has become an embarrassment to America and a source of outrage f Africans.

[Andrew Muller]

We learned, yes, that an American presentation to an international conference on HIV and AIDS had relied heavily on a map on which most of Nigeria had been relocated inland. Mozambique dropped on Ethiopia, Ivory coast moved to Malawi, Malawi to the borders of South Africa, Zimbabwe and Botswana, and Cameroon to Ghana. And all of them the wrong shape Credit where due though Uganda more or less in the right spot, just a third or two so of it spilling over into Kenya. So well done there. From which we learned any or all of Nobody at the U.S. state Department has bothered to learn where anything in Africa even is. Somebody at the US State Department had just outsourced everything to AI and that just possibly, one of the reasons the United States was continuing to experience such difficulty extricating itself from Iran was that they thought they'd been invading a Iceland, Iowa, Innsbruck, or perhaps, who knows, the Heard and McDonald Islands, upon whose penguins the United States continues to impose a 10% tariff. Still, we learned that the State Department was not the only arm of the US Government, feeding prompts into AI and getting results at variance with reality. We learned that President Donald Trump had posted a slop picture of himself alongside General George Patton and General Douglas MacArthur, although inevitably outranking both and wearing more medals than either. Which, to be clear, is behavior which is entirely sane, normal, and in no manner a grotesque insult to actual service personnel, coming as it does from a serial draft dodger, and which would be happily, indeed merrily laughed off by American conservatives if a Democrat did it. Although we learned upon further scrutiny of the image, that Trump's preferred slop generator had decided that MacArthur had just two stars on his shoulders rather than his actual five, and yet was also, for some reason a corporal in the, we think, Australian army, and that Patton was, again, this is our best guess, a colonel. Colonel in a Soviet mechanized infantry unit. If any listeners in the vicinity of the Luxembourg American Cemetery have recently noticed a rumbling emanating from the graveyard. There's your answer. Imaginably, yes. But we did learn that there were realms in which the commander in Chief's attention to detail was less inclined to waver.

Those are workers jackhammering President Trump's new helipad, which has been under construction since his backyard UFC fight on June 14th. And if you take a close look on July 30th, you can see letters that say Seal of the President of the United States. On August 1st, those letters were taken apart. And then by August 4th, the letters were gone.

We learned that the helipad, which is replacing the Ultimate Fighting Championship ring, which replaced the south lawn of the White House. Big hello to any listeners who are just now waking from a decade long coma. This is to be clear, all actually happening hello. Appeared not to have pleased the President. Possibly it simply isn't goldenough who has ordered it ripped up and relayed, which we're pretty sure we learned was not the only thing he has ordered ripped up and relayed.

Observers noticed that Triple Trump's trademark blonde hairstyle appeared significantly fuller and more voluminous than it had during recent public appearances.

But sticking with the subject of uncomprehending and ill qualified creatures with startlingly thick and bristly blonde hair meandering for some reason into legislatures in the Americas, We learned that one state house in Brazil, specifically that of Mato Grosso, which in Portuguese means.

[Guy Delaunay]

Means thick bush.

[Andrew Muller]

Thanks, Fernando. And for heaven's sake, grow up. Everybody had been beset by capybaras.

[Guy Delaunay]

A group of the world's largest rodent sauntered through the front doors of the Mato Grosso assembly in Cuiaba, briefly interrupting business before staff gently guided them outside.

[Andrew Muller]

Which means we also learned how to gently guide a capybara outside. And you never know when that's going to come in handy. Back to our Brazil desk, Fernando, what does that mean?

[Chris Chermack]

Go there, go there. No, no, no, you can't, you can't.

[Andrew Muller]

There. You can all thank us. Next time your place of work is assailed by immense semi aquatic herbivores. Write it down.

[Emma Nelson]

Go there, go there. No, no, no, you can't.

[Andrew Muller]

And we learned of a development in. In the most boring musical work ever composed. Sorry, our mistake. Forgot about the Floyd. Second most boring musical work ever composed. We learn that at St. Bacardi Church in the German settlement of Halberstadt, another chord had been struck in a rendition of as Slow As Possible, a wilfully interminable symphony by tedious avant gardist John Cage, which has been performed continuously in St. Bacardi's since 2001 and is due to continue until 2640. The tone shifting subtly on an irregular schedule. We learned that what we had been waiting for since February 5, 2024, was. We'll see you for the promised change to E major fourth on October 5, 2027, which we can all agree is well worth staying alive for. For Monocle Radio, I'm Andrew Muller.

[Emma Nelson]

Thank you, Andrew. Now, Guy Delaunay, we have a minute and A half to talk about what you've been doing for Monocle recently and interviews in Albania.

[Guy Delaunay]

Indeed I have been doing interviews in Albania and very specifically with Prime Minister Edi Rama, who was a rather seemed cut a bit of a treble figure when I met him in his office in Tirana, because down below his office every night and still ongoing for more than two months now are protests calling for his resignation. There's various reasons for the protesters unhappiness and this is what Mr. Rama told me me about how he felt about interacting with those protesters.

[Edi Rama]

Sometimes even your worst enemy is telling something that you need to think about because paradoxically, your enemies can tell you things that are more useful than the things your friend tell you.

[Guy Delaunay]

Are you going to tell me now? Are you keeping it under your heart?

[Edi Rama]

No, no, I. I am taking notes. I'm trying to listen as much as I can from whatever people are saying, from the most crazy things to the most sensible things. And then of course it's like how

[Emma Nelson]

I work Eddie Rama there. Albania, a problematic country, I think the Americans call it, a country which is partly free.

[Guy Delaunay]

Partly free, that would be. Maybe Freedom House would be saying that sort of thing, I would have thought. And this is very much the case across the western Balkans. But it's also a country which has been making very rapid progress, progress towards European Union membership. So as ever in the region that I cover, it's a lot of things going on at the same time.

[Emma Nelson]

Guy, we will be reading about your interview with Eddie, where I'm aware it

[Guy Delaunay]

is in Monocle's summer newspaper, Med Mountains and more. And you will find that at your

[Emma Nelson]

local newsstand worth picking up for any travels you may have and indeed any sitting down you may be wishing to do.

[Guy Delaunay]

Quite so.

[Emma Nelson]

That's all the time we have for today's programme. The warmest of thanks to all our guests and to the producers, Anita Rio and Thomas Waterhouse. Our researcher was in Kaylee Martin. Our studio manager was Mariella Bevan with editing assistance by Hunter Wang. What's up next, Guy Delawney?

[Guy Delaunay]

Well, after the headlines, there's more music on the way. The briefing is live at midday in London and the Globalist returns with us. I believe at the same time on

[Emma Nelson]

Monday they're letting us have another go. How do we feel about that?

[Guy Delaunay]

I feel pretty good about it, Emma.

[Emma Nelson]

Okay, everyone, tune in on Monday to see what happens. For now from me, Emma, Emma Nelson

[Guy Delaunay]

and me, Guy Delaunay.

[Emma Nelson]

Goodbye, thanks for listening and have a great weekend.

[UBS Narrator]

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