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- [00:00]
Dr. Joyce Brown
Foreign.
- [00:05]
Jill Manoff
Thanks for tuning in to this New York Fashion Week edition of the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, Jill Manoff and today I'm sitting down with Dr. Joyce Brown, who at the end of this school year will wrap up a 26 year run as president of the Fashion Institute of Technology. Several Fashion month favorites honed their craft at fit, including Michael Kors himself, Calvin Klein himself, and Schiaparelli creative director Daniel Roseberry. So I wanted to ask Dr. Brown about the evolving ways the school is setting designers up for industry success. I also wanted to get her take on the role of a fashion show in today's fashion landscape. Welcome, Dr. Brown. So, Dr. Brown, fit many success stories in terms of designers that are thriving in the industry now. And folks, that show at New York Fashion Week season after season, I mean, 26 years is a long time. When you kind of think back, what would you say in terms of success stories? What comes to mind or who comes to mind in terms of really, best case scenario, superstar of the school in your 26 years?
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Dr. Joyce Brown
Well, you know, I can't pick a superstar. You know how you can't pick among the children, right? Because everyone, really, so many of our graduates have distinguished themselves in spectacular ways. And you know, our household names, some are up and coming, some, you know, not as well known, but all with talent and creativity. So, you know, we have, you know, the names that, you know, we have, you know, Michael Kors and Dennis Basso and Daniel Roseberry who's now the creative director at Schiaparelli, and Bibu Mohabatra who is an amazing designer who was a graduate in 99. We now have, you know, an interesting moment in time. We have Grace Chen, who was a graduate in 1995, one of our first from mainland China. And Grace worked for 15 years here in the city, then went to China and really launched her own line. I think it was 2009. So she's coming back now. She's going to have an America New York presence. And so it's a 30 year anniversary. So you have so many diligent, creative, committed creatives, you know, talented young people. And you know, nothing happens overnight. They work, they toil, they don't give up. They, you know, are, you know, totally immersed in making their name and giving their muse the opportunity to be developed. And I'm, you know, very proud of all of them. You know, I see, I see the emerging designers that are coming up that are embracing the new ways of making a statement in the industry today and they're going to be the household names, you know, in a few years. So, you know, there's a million stories to be told, no doubt. I mean, that's in terms of the designers, in terms of. Of, you know, what, what we can point to in the growth of the institution. I mean, you know, we've gotten, you know, I'm very proud of the development and increase in the number of our academic programming, you know, our leadership in the whole field of biodesign, which is, you know, what you're seeing now in terms of the designers and the industry, the success of our students in international competitions, the competitiveness of our faculty, our DTEC lab, where we are now answering issues that are real current in time, issues and challenges for industry. They come to us in our DTEC lab, and our students and faculty help to work out solutions to those problems. Many, many things to really point to in a time.
- [04:27]
Jill Manoff
Yes, you guys are on the cutting edge. It's so exciting. I'm sure you've seen a lot of exciting first to market ideas and technologies and all of these things come out of your school. It's exciting. I was going to ask who you're excited to see this season at New York Fashion Week, but Grace Chen. I mean, doing a couture show. And there's an fit connection that. That says a lot about where she. What she credits as. As putting her. Setting her up for success. Tell me about. About that show and, and. And about. More about Grace. Is her trajectory typical? I'm sure it's not. It's exceptional. It seems exceptional.
- [05:04]
Dr. Joyce Brown
Well, you know, again, I say to you that the thing that is most characteristic of our fit students and graduates is, is their talent and creativity and their commitment to developing that talent and that muse and to making a success. So what's typical is the hard work, you know, is the lack of diversion, you know, to focus and concentrate and be committed to developing the muse that. That resides within them. And you know, what's interesting about Grace, in addition to her impeccable taste, I mean, she has incredible textiles and fabrics, which I always think are really key to much of design, has really been her steadfastness in developing a market that is in China, in Europe, international. And now she's coming here with a real commitment to developing the American market as well. So, you know, not everyone goes that route. Many of our graduates are interested in the national market and the domestic market, which is no small feat. They may venture to Europe. But, you know, Grace went another way because she is a native of China and she was able to Develop her aesthetic and her clientele. And her show is going to be interesting here at FIT because she is going to have what she calls her GC girls. Her Grace Chen girls all over the world are going to walk in the show. And that's going to be an interesting twist and, you know, a real testimony, I think, to the reach of her work and design.
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Jill Manoff
I heard a rumor that you. You may be walking. Are you a GC girl?
- [07:18]
Dr. Joyce Brown
Yeah, I am a GC girl. It's really. Her work is quite lovely.
- [07:24]
Jill Manoff
That's amazing. Excited to see that. Well, I also know that after graduating, Grace, you know, honed her craft. She was working for Halston and Tadashi Shoji and. And also had amazing clients like Sarah Jessica Parker and. And Oprah Winfrey herself. But I also know, speaking of kind of working for other designers, FIT is really instrumental in giving your students that experience. I know, for instance, working under. In collaboration with Carolina Herrera, maybe under. I don't. Is it on an internship basis or. Tell me about how. How some of that training is able to be facilitated while students are in school.
- [08:04]
Dr. Joyce Brown
Well, we certainly have. We have a very intensive internship program for most of our. Most of our majors, but certainly in fashion design, the students are able to work with designers and really get exposed to the business to understand how the inner workings, the intersection of both the design and the business end come together. And Carolina Herrera has just been the company. And Carolina Herrera herself have just been amazingly supportive of our students. So our students have had internships. They've also had the exposure to herself. And the company, in recent years, has sponsored three students with full scholarships.
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Jill Manoff
Wow.
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Dr. Joyce Brown
Full scholarships, full freight, and exposure to the company. In terms of mentoring within the company. They've been able to attend the shows. I can't say enough. They, you know, it's really the Pooj company, which, you know, is, of course, behind the Carolina Herrera brand at this point, have been extraordinarily interesting in investing in that next generation of leaders. And that's what we produce. We have creative young people with an incredible work ethic, incredible talent and creativity, and what they need is an opportunity. And the Poosh company is very committed to creating that. So, yeah, it's really been quite a wonderful partnership with them.
- [09:48]
Jill Manoff
That's lovely. And on the same note, I know that your students have experience working the floor, working the shows at New York Fashion Week, and obviously that means that you see value in the shows and. And the role that they play in the fashion kind of system overall. Tell me about the role of Fashion Week. Like, I mean, in general, like, that is why that's so important in fashion today. It's. We've been seeing fewer and fewer designers that are showing. Unfortunately, I still live for it, and I know that designers, obviously, they're investing in it and certain brands still huge value to come of it and taking part in that. But. Yeah. What do you see as the importance of those shows today?
- [10:30]
Dr. Joyce Brown
Well, look, I think that the shows, all of the industry is going through a transformation, just as most things in our world are going through a transformation. I think the pandemic had an impact on just about everything we do. How, how we get information, how we're entertained, how we teach, how we learn, you know, all of it. So certainly the industry was impacted as well. But I think the shows, while they might have a different kind of influence than they had before, where, you know, people were just anxious to see what was the look for the season, what were the colors for the season, you know, what was the new design that each designer was going to come out with? I think that is somewhat different because the consumers are really demanding something different. But the shows do create a vehicle for influence. I think, certainly, as the haute couture designers figure out how they are going to appeal to the new consumer, the new consumer, and those who are also trying to find their footing in terms of the industry and what the designs are that are going to speak to them, the shows play a role. You kind of get a sense of what the overall gestalt is going to be for the season. And I think for young people, it's an opportunity for young students, for people hoping to find their footing in the industry, it's an opportunity to see how it all comes together. I mean, there's nothing quite like the energy and dynamism behind the scenes in these shows. And for the students, it's an opportunity. It's an opportunity to be exposed to it, to have a role in it, to understand how it all fits together, to see the designers probably at their best and their worst as the emotion of all of that activity comes into play. So it's a great opportunity and experience for the students. And I think, you know, even as young and emerging designers are embracing different avenues of creativity, the tried and true, the historic, the. The foundational elements that one sees in these shows is beneficial and educational for them as well.
- [13:07]
Jill Manoff
Yes.
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Dr. Joyce Brown
And. And they give their right arm for the opportunity to be there. So important from their point of view as well.
- [13:15]
Jill Manoff
I'm always like, if you're not excited to be at Fashion Week, you are in the wrong field or the wrong city or something. Definitely. Well, as you mentioned, it's a different. Compared to even 10 years ago. It's a different consumer. It's a different fashion week. Tell me about preparing students to enter this industry, how it's changed over maybe the last decade, like what it means in terms of the prioritization in your teaching, in your curriculum, all of that.
- [13:43]
Dr. Joyce Brown
Well, you know, I mean, certainly the technology has changed much of what we produce, how we produce it. You know, what. What is the marriage of design development and emerging, you know, the. The emerging technology and how that infiltrates and. And supports fashion, how it's used. But, you know, look, what. What we do. When you say, how do we teach differently? There are still fundamentals and foundational things that have to be taught. We develop talent. Students come to us, they're creative, they're talented, they're motivated, they're dedicated and committed. We have to develop that talent, and we have to develop a work ethic. And they have to understand the parameters, the business parameters within which all that creativity can come to fruition. So there are some things that do not change, but there are many things that do. And among the things that do is the. Are the influences of the technology. And not just because it's there, but because your consumer has changed. People are demanding different things today. They want authenticity. They want to know what the core DNA, what is the message? They want to limit excess. They want sustainability. They want to know that the design can be reflective of who they are and what their role in society is. So there's a lot of different messages in terms of how one teaches and assumes that the correct messaging is going out about what it is that is in the product development. So I think that for the much of what you'll see in terms of that incorporation of technology might have to do with things like microchips and sensors, things that allow colors to change and the utility of the design to even change, because sometimes there's panels that can be inserted so you have less. Less usage of textile and fabric and footprint, but have many different outfits in one authentic design. So, you know, that's exciting. Yeah. I mean, it really does require, I think, an openness on the part of those of us who think we know the full picture, and we have to be open to the picture that's emerging for the young consumer and the new consumer today.
- [16:39]
Jill Manoff
Yes. One of my reporters just did a story on AI and fashion design. Is that a large. Is that a big topic of conversation or how. How it can be used how it should be used?
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Dr. Joyce Brown
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, you know, part of what's interesting, you know, I'm. I'm old enough to remember when people were frightened of the impact of the Internet. What was it going to mean? Right. And we're sort of at that stage, I think, with AI But AI is a tool, and we have to get over being nervous about it taking over. It can't do anything that we don't feed it the material to work with. So, yes, there's many opportunities that AI creates if people learn to embrace what its strengths are. It can allow you to manipulate and look at design with different. Different fabrics, different textiles, different features, different insert things to insert and test. It allows you, of course, to save on textile and waste, but it also allows you to experiment and to innovate and to figure out in what ways you can create the mood and the look and the feel that you want.
- [17:57]
Jill Manoff
Right on. Well, it's a challenging time in any industry. I feel like, anyway, that thing, it's challenging. And for those that do get to show at Fashion Week, it says something like, good for them. They get to celebrate all the hard work they're doing. They can invest in that opportunity. I don't know. When you look at the industry as a whole, what challenges would you say, maybe that are specific to this day and age or right now, that. That fashion designers are feeling or your alumni, your students should be prepared to handle?
- [18:32]
Dr. Joyce Brown
Well, you know, I think truly the things that we've just articulated are the biggest challenges. You know, the requirements and demands and expectations of the consumer and how to adjust to that. I mean, you know, it's hard. Businesses, you know, are behemoth organizations, and it's not so easy for them to pivot. And, And. And you don't want to pivot prematurely. You really need to spend the time to understand what is going to be the best expression of an authentic brand that you want to continue. So, you know, I think. I think learning the consumer, listening to the consumer, being experimental, and at the same time, preserving the DNA of the brand. What made your brand successful to begin with, and how do you hold onto that and make it more current so that you appeal to the next generation of consumer. I often say that, you know, these young, the students that we are turning out now, in another, what, 15 years, 20 years, they are going to be leading these institutions that we look to now for leadership. So it behooves us to really listen and to understand what the movement is, what the direction is. And you Know, it requires an investment of resources as well as time and openness to really listening to what that movement is representing.
- [20:15]
Jill Manoff
For sure, we'll say those students are leading the industry. We're 15 years down the road. I was going to ask you about where you see fashion going and our direction. And I don't know, it could be in terms of inclusivity, it could be in terms, in terms of how technology is leveraged. But like kind of the big picture, where do you see things going from here?
- [20:39]
Dr. Joyce Brown
Well, you know, I think that the, the whole notion of, I think sustainability is very big. You know, it started out that people thought they had a choice about it. They, you know, when you, what, 10 years ago you raised sustainability, people immediately told you about the costs and what the impact on the bottom line was. People to embrace all this talk about sustainability. And now it is really of integral importance to the business model because it's important to the consumer. I just think that the listening to the consumer, the being open to what the direction needs to be. What are those aspirational sort of limits? It's sort of here when we teach and we develop curriculum and we turn out leaders, potential leaders, it's really about understanding what that aspirational level should be. What is the vision, what is the direction that the elements are telling you? I mean, we can't in a vacuum make up what the direction is. I mean, all of the elements that we see. The impact of technology, the integration of what we call biodesign, the development of more natural fabrics using biodegradable kinds of ingredients to make sure that we're not going to create more landfill as opposed to something that is, you know, going to generate more energy and natural, natural elements for the earth and for the planet and for people to be able to still enjoy and be fashionable. As we redefine what fashion is, we have to be open to that and experiment and be innovative and. And respect the things that the consumer says they're looking for.
- [22:52]
Jill Manoff
Yes, that's hopeful.
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Dr. Joyce Brown
Well, yeah, it's hopeful and it's challenging, but it is really, I think, the underlying dynamic of what the industry is living through at this time. You know, we talk about industry and we can talk about retail, we can talk about product development. All of those are elements of what needs to come together into a cohesive sort of response to what's going to really generate the capital and economy of these industries.
- [23:26]
Jill Manoff
Yes. Well, I tell you what, Dr. Brown, 26 years is nothing to sneeze at. That's an amazing run. Looking back I'm sure you've got, again, many proud moments outside of what we already talked about. Students that you're proud of and have been excited to see kind of take off. But what can you share about looking back, your, I don't know, proudest accomplishments over the course of these 26 years?
- [23:55]
Dr. Joyce Brown
Well, I think the thing that I'm most proud of, I'm proud of many things. I mean, I think we've come a long way and really accomplished a number of things. But I think that what I really can point to is sort of a change in conversation in our community here. We, you know, we, we are, we've changed the dialogue. We, we are more involved in articulating what our aspirational levels are, what our expectations are. We're not just turning out workers to an, to a garment industry. We are, we are turning out scientists, we're turning out analysts, we're turning out researchers and designers and creators. And it's very exciting. It's exciting to see the competitiveness of our faculty and the people that want to come into this community and be a part of that faculty and to interact with the, with the budding and emerging creatives that are going to fuel the industry. So, you know, I guess I'm saying that what's really been a proud moment for me is to have worked to help create that environment, you know, because it is really a seedbed of creativity and intellectual curiosity here. And, and that's. That has really been a work in progress. And, and I feel very good about it. And of course, I'd have to tell you that we now have a new building. I talked about building this building for the past 15 years. And we are about to open a brand new, state of the art, 100,000 square foot new facility that's going to have studio space and maker space for the students and classrooms. And I think when you create an environment that clearly represents your expectation of success, it garners success. It makes people understand that they're valued and they do their best work. So I'm very proud of that.
- [26:11]
Jill Manoff
As well you should be. That's so exciting and for real. Last question. We talked a lot. We're heading into Fashion Week. We've talked about some of those who have risen to the top of the industry. Just in all of your years, you've seen a lot of success stories. If those folks are listening today, they want to be a designer, they want to go to fit. What would you say? What advice would you give in terms of a successful. You're going to be Successful in fashion. You're. You're cut out for this. It's. You mentioned some, you, you've talked about hard work and the importance of that. Anything else that you would add to that?
- [26:50]
Dr. Joyce Brown
I think commitment. You know, we just, we just reopened for the spring semester and I see all these. And some students come in, you know, mid midterm, so they're coming in in January, and they're excited and they're nervous and they are clearly talented or they wouldn't have gotten in. You know, focus and capture that expectation, that hopefulness that, you know, that dedication. It's, It. There's no, I always say there's. The only place that success comes before work is in the dictionary. Right? So they've got, they, they've got to put their head down, focus and really immerse themselves in the, in an environment that is here to support them and to develop their, their talent. And our students, you know, generally one of the. It's also possible that people come, they think they're going to have their name on the door and they're going to be the creative and they find out that they're really better at the business side of the, of the industry. There are many, many, many different ways in which you can be a creative and be in this industry and be successful. And part of our job is to expose students to all of those opportunities so that they find their place. So if they're talented and creative and dedicated and were admitted to fit, there's a place for them.
- [28:17]
Jill Manoff
I love it. Dr. Brown, thank you so much for being here heading into this crazy fashion week when you will be modeling. This is fantastic.
- [28:27]
Dr. Joyce Brown
It's my new career. Yes.
- [28:29]
Jill Manoff
Thank you so much. That's all for this episode. Our theme music is by Otis McDonald's. If you liked this episode, be sure to share it with someone else you think would. Thanks for listening to the glossy podcast.