C (3:35)

Yeah.

A (3:35)

So the news this week is that Vinted is being investigated by French authorities over allegations that it did not do enough to prevent minors from accessing adult content. So I looked into what exactly they meant by that and the way I understand it is people would post on Vinted that they're selling underwear, for example, but. But then they'd post photos that are very risque of themselves in the underwear. And it's basically was a subtle link to the seller's OnlyFans account, basically using the listing on Vinted as an ad to get people to sign up for their OnlyFans. I have never really shopped on Vinted, but I can say in the US on Facebook marketplace that is, I see that a lot where it's like I'm selling a mirror, but it's like a selfie of somebody in the mirror, you know what I mean? So, but anyway, because that means there's technically links to pornographic content on Vinted, it needs an 18 warning on the website, which it currently does not have. So I think that's the argument from French authorities and why they're looking into Vinted. It's notable, I think, because we literally were just talking on this podcast, you and I, about Sheehan kind of being accused of something sort of similar by the French authorities a few weeks ago, selling what the authorities said was like child sized or child shaped sex dolls, also being investigated by the French regulators. So it's like slightly different specifics, but it's a two non French sort of marketplaces, both sort of under heavy scrutiny for, you know, violating some rules about Sexual content. Do you see any common threads there or. I don't know. What do you make of the fact that there's kind of multiple investigations happening simultaneously with such similar kind of conceits?

B (5:28)

Yeah, I mean, I think that a lot of the bigger companies are being investigated in France now. It's not just Shein and Vinted, but also Temu, Aliexpress, Amazon and ebay have all had investigations which are either closed or currently ongoing. And this is I think a bigger sign of French regulators trying to show that they have teeth and that they want their regulations, but also I guess for bigger companies to respect the rules of operating in France. And it's actually quite interesting because they're focusing mostly on the kind of unfair competition aspect of it as well as the things that have been called to mind with Shein and Vinted. So dangerous or illicit goods. It's part of a bigger direction by the eu, I think, to accelerate, I guess, the scrutiny on these bigger companies. Earlier or I think last week the European bloc accelerated customs duties as well on low value parcels. And that's clearly a move to slow cheap imports from China. And I think that even resale companies are not exempt from that. I think there's been a lot of maybe French companies that aren't doing as well because there's such international competition. I'm sure that's something that is worth mentioning here as well. And if you want to dig into what's happening with Vented as well, because they've moved some things around in terms of merging their UK and US markets, there's a little investigation that I did today on Glossy around what they've been doing, doing with their listings and how it's been a little bit of a mess.

A (7:17)

I would love to hear that. I want to say one quick point and then I want to hear about this, but I was going to say I think you're right to note this and I also noted maybe a little whiff of protectionism, that a lot of the companies being investigated are non French marketplaces, several of them non European, but several are European and just not French. You mentioned Amazon. Shein is Chinese, Temu is Chinese, Vinted is Lithuanian. France does have its own resale marketplaces like Back Market and Vestier Collective are both based in France and as far as I know are not under any like, you know, serious investigations at the moment. That being said, like if there is rule violation, there's rule violation, you know, so it's like it's, it's not necessarily that the charges are Being like, you know, made up or anything. But it does feel, it is notable that the French authorities are investigating all of these non French marketplaces. And a lot of times specifically using language. You know, I'm thinking about our Sheehan conversation that it's like they don't represent French values and that kind of thing. There's a little bit like, I feel like it's a little bit of nationalism there, I think, and putting more scrutiny on, on international marketplaces and a little bit less on local marketplaces. So anyway, I'm glad you mentioned that because I was going to bring that up as well. But I would love to hear more about your, your digging into Vinted.

B (8:44)

Yeah, so earlier this week I got a tip about Vinted basically changing its policy and starting to expand out into the US market allowing basically cross trading between, I believe it's New York, but obviously that's, that's a bigger part of the US market and UK sellers. And with that came an automatic change that basically sellers were not informed about. Buyers were not informed about. The sizing completely changed because they basically started to include US sizing and UK sizing together. So sellers ended up having to go back through their listings manually through each one having to change the sizes to make sure that it suited whichever kind of local system as well as now sellers are having to think about customs duties which with tariffs and the de minimis end has been a big shift for them. Most of them don't really know how to do it. It's still very, very recent and they don't want either from the buy side or the sell side to be adding on additional tariffs or kind of cost increases if they're not needed. And as a result I think a lot of the sal vintud have been affected. I've spoke to a couple of the sellers who said that because of all this work that they're having to put in because now they're worried about their sales dropping because customers are not sure about buying from them. That's affected their little side businesses on Vinted. And when I spoke to a Vinted representative, it doesn't seem like they have anything permanent in place yet. I'm hoping that with this story that changes, but obviously it comes at a very interesting time, especially with the news of the valuation.

A (10:33)

Yeah, no, that's super interesting. And the other thing that I've noted about Vinted is they have gotten very huge, like I mentioned up at the top, but they are currently mulling a share sale that would put their valuation at over 8 billion euro. I think I said $8 billion earlier, I meant 8 billion euro, which is over $9 billion. And their revenue is up 40% this year in 2025, that's what they're projecting to be over a billion euro just for 2025 alone. So they are definitely, like you mentioned, they're growing very fast and I think that's a contributing factor to a lot of what we're talking about. How about we move on to our second topic, although there's a little bit of overlap here. So speaking of companies that are being investigated for sexually explicit material for minors by French authorities, weird that there's two to talk about. But Shein is the one I'm referring to. But actually I more want to talk about Clark's, which is a UK footwear brand. This week they announced a bunch of new marketplace partnerships that they're going to be selling in Target, Walmart in Europe, something called Dress for Less, which I'm not that familiar with as an American. I don't know if you've heard of that. Zofia. No. Okay. That's neither of us.

B (11:48)

No, I think it must be something outside of London. There's a lot of chain stores.

A (11:52)

No. Yeah, I haven't heard of it either. But I mean I can guess by the name the type of retailer it is. But also TikTok Shop and also Shein. And I think the common thread between all of these marketplaces that it's going to be selling on. Did I mention Walmart? I think I did. If not Walmart as well. The common thread I think is that they're all very mass market, very low cost or discount minded marketplaces like Shein is obviously very known for low cost Dress for Less. It's right there in the name Walmart as well. And this is across both the US and the uk. I think some of the specific marketplaces are a little different between the two, but the vibe is the same, is that it's a lot of mass market marketplaces. So I want to ask you. They're a UK company and obviously you're based there, but what's your take on Clark's and their kind of current position and going into some of these big, you know, big and a little bit lawless marketplaces like TikTok Shop and Shein.

B (12:56)

Yeah, so Clark's has been doing, I would say slightly better in recent years than maybe before just because they've leaned into some trend items, some of their kind of core originals that's been very popular for them. However, when it comes to channels, it does seem like most of the products are basically only available through their own stores or their own E commerce. I haven't seen them in any of the kind of major like chains in the uk and as a result I'm wondering if they may be losing market share to other footwear brands that have a kind of similar assortment or are able to offer lower prices. That's something that, you know, does factor in when customers are affected by cost of living. You know, just for comparison rates, imagine living in New York, but with UK salaries like the, the cost of living effect in, in London and the uk, I think is, is much higher than it is in the US and as a result, discretionary spend is down even more and customers are thinking about every single purchase a lot more carefully. You know, with this like marketplace expansion, it's basically a testing phase for them because obviously the plan is for this whole kind of marketplace experiment is almost to see what's going to be working for them before they launch their own digital marketplace next year, which will be live on Clarks.com and host other brands alongside their own. So I'm interested to see which ones kind of land and which ones don't. You would be surprised at how many brands, even luxury brands, sell on Temu or Shein just because they want to understand what their distribution is like and kind of where people are looking for that brand. So I'm not sure if every one of these marketplace expansions will kind of carry on for a longer period of time, but I'm guessing they're just testing and seeing what sticks.

A (14:58)

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. Clark's has, has or is opening their own marketplace as well and is going to be selling brands alongside their, their own stuff. I think the marketplace model is very interesting to me and not always in a good way. I feel like a lot of the times what I hear about the marketplaces is the stuff like, you know, Shein selling bizarre sexual material or, you know, weird things showing up on the marketplace and then the owner of the marketplace being like, you know, we had nothing to do with that, it's just our sellers. And it feels like, it feels, it feels like a little bit of a risky concept sometimes. Like the, the upside obviously is the scale. A lot of these marketplaces like Amazon and TikTok shop are huge. I think there's definitely a brand safety concern, but also like, you know, France was looking into shutting down the Shein website in France. So if you're selling on Shein and then, you know, they do something or one of their sellers do something that gets them shut down, then that's like a channel you, you're now, you know, losing out on. So I feel like there, it seems to me a little bit risky to throw in with some of these marketplaces. And then like I said, I think a lot of times the owners of the marketplace use the fact that they are not directly overseeing every product listing and every sale as a way to sort of like dodge accountability for whatever weird violations and bad stuff goes down on there. So I don't know, do you get the same sense that it's. I don't know, feels a little lawless to me.

B (16:29)

It does. It kind of calls back to like the early days of Amazon, I think, before you had all of the ratings, the kind of copycats. I'm just wondering, for a brand like Clark's that does have such, I guess, like a history and I would say still a relatively unique proposition in the footwear market, why would you want to kind of expand your market outwards so much when there are so many other copycats, you know, people who will be probably selling your exact model on the same marketplace for a cheaper price, like putting yourself alongside that. You'd have to really make sure that the way that you're coming across on that marketplace is unique and they have spoken. Or the CEO or the. Sorry, no. The exec who runs Clark's, America's Gary Champion, said that there is going to be control over how Clarks looks like inside the marketplaces. But I've never really seen that done very effectively. So I'm wondering what that will look like exactly, because typically, I mean, you just have a product listing and you're able to maybe control the description and that's it.

A (17:39)

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because one final thing I want to say about Clark's is this is a topic that I think we should talk about more in depth on the podcast in the future. But it's making me think about the K shaped economy concept, which I think you and I have talked about a little bit. But basically that the bifurcated economy is another term people use where you've got brands that are catering more and more to the top level of their consumer segment. And then you have brands that are kind of doing the opposite. They're kind of moving down the funnel. This, to me, going into all of these marketplaces feels like a little bit of going toward one side of the K. Like, let's try to be in the most amount of places in These very like, discounted or like places where the low cost is. Part of the appeal is that's catering to one side of this K shaped economy. And then there's lots of brands that we've talked about doing the opposite. So that's kind of what I think may be going on here. And like I said, I think we should talk more in depth about that in a future episode maybe. Let's move on to our last topic, Black Friday. So we are recording this Thursday, November 20, one week out from Thanksgiving. Black Friday is coming up soon. We have an upcoming joint episode with the Glossy Podcast and our sister publications, Modern Retail and the Glossy Beauty Podcast, where we dive into Black Friday strategies more specifically. But this week I wanted to talk just a little bit about pre Black Friday sales. There's some good data that came out this week about how people are shopping leading up to Black Friday. There was a new report this week from Quantum metric that found 45% of people have already started their holiday shopping before Black Friday and one in four will be finished before Black Friday. So, like 25% of people will be done holiday shopping before Black Friday even gets here. Something that is, you know, not a new idea is that the Black Friday shopping time period has been expanding outward. But I wanted to talk about how that affects kind of overall spend because my, my theory, and sorry that I'm going on long here, but my theory is that the more it spreads out, the less urgent the whole thing becomes. And then people are just straight up, like, not really moved by sales because they're like, either I already bought stuff a month ago, or I know that the sale is gonna last, you know, even past Black Friday. So I'm like, not really that concerned about missing out. You know, that's my possible theory. But anyway, I'll stop there. What's your take on some of the data we've seen about pre Black Friday shopping?

B (20:19)

Yeah, I think that it's as you said, basically that there's so much shopping happening before Black Friday. And I think this year in particular, I've seen a lot of very heavy discounting around singles day. So on the 11th, you know, that, that maybe later sale, you know, if you're not hoping that there's going to be more than a 20% discount, for example, I think I saw 33% as being a kind of average for singles day. Like that feels like, why would you want to wait? And it's really interesting because every year it kind of feels like there's almost like a race between retailers or Brands and customers. Who's going to end up winning this Black Friday situation? Are you going to be getting more sales or are customers going to be getting more discounts and finding more deals? And I think this year in particular because of the, I guess the less popular Black Friday phenomenon, because of the fact that it's spreading out, because of the fact that you can use AI now to track prices over the course of a year, it kind of feels like customers might have gotten the edge for maybe one of the first times, which makes me a little bit happy. It just feels like there's such a savviness around discounting and how it works as well as the cycles throughout the year that I don't think that customers are going to able to accept a once a year proposition unless brands are really, really strict about this. Last week for the glossy LinkedIn newsletter I wrote about how ON doesn't do any discounts regardless of the time season and yet it's one of the most popular sportswear brands. It remains very high in its sales figures and I'm wondering if as a result more brands will be pulling back on the kind of discounting they're going to be doing because they want to main that full price sell through.

A (22:17)

Yeah, I think you're totally right about the consumer savviness. I mean another interesting data point from the same report is that there were lots of discounts and deals through October but only 15% of people actually took advantage of them. Because I think people are very aware now when are the best deals, especially if they know specific brands that they want to, that they want to buy from. They maybe already know. Well, like you said on isn't going to do a sale so I'll just like buy whenever or I know this brand always does their biggest sales at this time so I'll wait till then or something. There's another interesting data point, a couple others. Retail site Traffic is down 21% in pre black Friday days from last year. Again I think suggesting people are just spreading out their shopping quite a bit. There's also I think like cart sizes are higher but conversion rates are lower which basically means people are doing one big purchase instead of lots of little purchases around, you know, throughout the weeks. Lots of interesting changes which I'm sure can be, you know, traced back to tariffs but also like fatigue with the whole like elongated shopping season. There's, there's a lot going on there. Any final thoughts you want to say on Black Friday stuff before we finish up?

B (23:34)

Yeah, I think one other thing and this is just generally kind of pointing towards again, the cost of living aspect. Maybe the fact that in the US price prices are starting to creep up because of tariffs. The expected kind of spend for customers right now is still going to be mainly through credit cards, which again suggests that they don't have the disposable income right now to make those purchases through debit means, but only through credit, suggesting again that if you're not able to afford it, they're not going to be buying regardless of the discount offered. I think that's, that's going to be the even bigger point. Obviously we'll see what happens in the post holiday sales and whether that's going to have another effect. But I'm wondering if maybe the reason why people aren't buying is simply because they just don't have any money anymore.

A (24:27)

Yep, I think that's a pretty good reason to not buy something is not having money. No, I completely agree. Let's stop there. This was a great conversation. Thank you, Zefia. We're going to, we're going to take a short break and when we come back, you and our editor in chief, Joe Manoff had this great conversation with Preston Conrad about Ralph Lauren Christmas. So stick around.

D (24:59)

All right, so we are talking Ralph Lauren Christmas today. And TikTok just came out with this amazing holiday report. Just wanted to give everybody the lay of the land on how hot of a trend this is. So Ralph Lauren Christmas surpassed 5 million searches in mid October 2025. And this is on TikTok and also the hashtag Ralph Lauren Christmas saw a 7,000% month over month increase in September of 2025. So anyway, it's popping off. This is all the rage. Preston, we have the expert on Ralph Lauren Christmas here. Tell me like, okay, before we get in, what's your background with Ralph Lauren? You know, the ins and outs of the business.

C (25:40)

Yeah, I haven't worked there in a minute. First of all, so happy to be with you guys today. Welcome. So happy to have you. Happy to see you again. But you know, I haven't worked there in a minute. But you know, my career started with Ralph when I was still in university. I was recruited when I was finishing up school to work for Ralph Lauren in I don't know if you remember this, but I may be dating myself. There was a concept brand called Rugby by Ralph Lauren that there was a store in New York City and I was recruited to run the shop up in Boston. So I thought I was going to work in marketing and television and I sidetracked and started working for Ralph Lauren. And when I graduated, I moved to New York, continued my career with Ralph and I was really then in the creative services and visuals world. So everything you can think of, from window displays to Christmas decorations to rugs and furniture, and traveled the world with Ralph that team opening up stores. And then I moved into the home world, Ralph Lauren home for a little bit and then finished my career in the Ralph Lauren creative team on the styling side of things. So styled men's kids, little bit of women's, but full world of over there.

D (26:51)

Well, that's amazing. I'm thinking back to just last year when I had to have this polo bear sweater for Christmas to wear all holiday season. Cause like all the influencers are wearing it. And I got one from the little boys department. Yeah, you guys. Cheaper. But yes. Tell me, like, was Ralph Lauren always synonymous with Christmas? Like, where did this come from?

C (27:14)

You know, I think there's, you know, obviously Ralph Lauren is really the American dream when it comes to lifestyle brands. Right. It's all about storytelling. It's whether it's in the summer and it's all about polo in the Hamptons or driving a sports car or it's in fall in London wearing a tweed coat. It's synonymous with selling a dream, I would say, and particularly around Christmas, the ultimate dream to tell was this beautiful romantic holiday moment. So my particular time of Ralph worn Christmas was actually installing stores and being behind the windows and decorating. But it was such a multi layered approach that we took from music to smell to windows to lighting, that it was almost more of like a movie set, to be honest. Right. Like kind of telling the story in that way. But I think Ralph's most known for fall and winter time stuff. So I would say it's synonymous with Christmas and fall.

B (28:17)

Yeah, for sure.

C (28:19)

Yeah.

B (28:20)

I have a little bit more to add on that because I did some digging around in preparation for the episode. And from what I know, you know, the basis of the Ralph Lauren Christmas aesthetic that we know today, it was all in the catalogs that came out in the 1980s. They had scenes from English estates, Aspen lodges, farmhouses. It was a lot of the same things that we're seeing now in the stores. And I think following that, in 1983, the first Ralph Lauren home collection kind of came out. And I think that also brought about this different aesthetic. You had the tartan wool throw blankets that we see everywhere that are now inspiring. The pajamas, hunting print dishes, brass candlesticks all. And then the holiday windows kind of really erupted, I'd say, like 1980s, 1990s, when they kind of became these little mini movie sets, like you said. And I think it's quite interesting that you have a background or an interest in movie design. Like, how did that kind of shape those?

C (29:21)

I mean, I. You know, as. I think a lot of similar people are attracted to work for Ralph Lauren. Right. Like, I'm still. Some of my closest friends to this day are people I met during my time there. And I think all of us share one common thing is that, you know, making something beautiful, whether it's an outfit, you're wearing jeans and a T shirt, and you're styling it up with a beautiful western belt or jewelry or a capelet or something. Like, it's about taking something and making it a little bit extra me as a stylist and in the home space. Now it's synonymous with that. I mean, when I was working there, it was really more about the vision than it was about, like, a model, let's say. It's like, where is she going? Where is she traveling? What is she bringing with her? It was more about this movie aesthetic that you're referencing. Right. It's like telling the entire picture, what's in the kitchen? What does it smell like? What's playing? If there was an old cinema thing happening in the window? What's playing on the screen? What's the music in the stores? And I think you would probably notice that today if you walked into a store, everything you see, smell, touch here is thought of which people are desperate for. You've seen it on TikTok. People are desperate to recreate that right now.

D (30:35)

Yes. What's happening right now? Ralph Lauren Christmas blowing up. Is it just all about nostalgia or, like, what do you owe this. This craze to?

C (30:43)

I mean, I. I love it because as someone who has some. A lot of time under their belt there, it's been a great time for me to chime in as an ex Ralph person and say, this was my time there. This is what I did. And give, like, real grounded advice on this on Tik and Instagram, and I did. I think it would have millions and millions and millions of views on these videos. No, but it's been great for me and my brand and on Social. But I think if you take a step back and really look at what's happened in the landscape across fashion and beauty, there's really been this kind of, like, shift away from, you know, we were in the 20 teens, we were in the Balenciaga, letters everywhere The Gucci everything. The flashy, flashy, the Valentino rock stud everything. And there's been this shift to this kind of like, quiet luxury, which became this almost old money aesthetic quiet luxury. The row had its moment and now it's like, how do you almost make it feel a bit more even sophisticated? So, like, we had the coastal grandma come in, what was it, last year? And people were like, oh, I love a cable knit again. I love a wide leg linen pant again, which is something that is a classic staple that's been around. And I think people are discovering it's easier to wear, it's easier to style, it's easier to reinterpret every year. And I think people are now bringing it into the home. We've had Scandi Christmas, monochrome Christmas, Burgundy Christmases. People are like, I want Christmas to feel old school and classic. Enter Ralph Lauren. There's really no one better, right?

D (32:16)

I'm sure we could hear all of this from watching one of your videos, but how do you describe Ralph Lauren Christmas? Like, what are the elements? What are the do's, the don'ts?

C (32:24)

I mean, to me, it's really. It's layered, right? We're not reinventing the wheel here. Tartan plaid, a Christmas motif forever, right? So it's like, it's layered. It is all the signature cues and none of the trend cues. So thinking about the tartan plaids, the bright red ribbon, warm lights on a Christmas tree instead of colored blinking lights on a Christmas tree. Slower. Ella Fitzgerald Christmas jazz, not loud pop, new Christmas music, right? Like all of the old school stuff you can think of. But what I'm trying to do on TikTok is help people. Why I even started my brand, Preston Lane, right, Is to help people live a luxe, beautiful life without going crazy or breaking the bank. And, you know, a lot of people have a brown leather chair in their house. Something that is a Ralph Lauren Christmas is putting a beautiful tartan blanket on a brown leather chair. Like, it's actually really simple if you think about it. And I think people get a little overwhelmed. Teddy bear this and whatever. It's not that overwhelming. Little things like, you know, we used to do swap out the chandelier lampshades with little tartan lampshades. Like, that's a really easy swap that someone could get from Amazon or Target or Wayfair just to add a little jazz to their home. But I think people are sick and tired of chasing into the trends and realizing, hey, I might have some tartan ribbon upstairs in my Attic from two years ago. Why don't I bring it out and weave it into my tree?

D (33:54)

You've got this beautiful brand, Preston Lane. I'm glad you brought it up. Just wondering, as you're seeing all of this attention on social media due to right now, currently this Ralph Lauren Christmas, like, how are you able to. Are you able to take advantage of it in terms of, like, getting your brand into the conversation? I know you've got beautiful Christmas candles. Like, are you.

C (34:14)

Yeah.

D (34:14)

What are you doing to kind of overlap or again, take advantage of.

C (34:17)

I mean, it's funny, I share so many similarities just as a designer and as a stylist with the Ralph Lauren aesthetic. Like classic pieces that will last you a long time that you can not have to hide in the attic when it turns January or February. So when we launched the brand, the timing couldn't have been more perfect with all of this because a lot of the pieces that we launched in our new home collection for Preston Lane that's on Amazon are like beautiful camel blankets with whip stitch detailing, which totally could work in a Ralph Lauren Christmas or could work a not Ralph Lauren Christmas or beautiful espresso leather trays with brass trim. Like, we have those in the collection. Just really timeless staples. As far as the holiday scent that you mentioned this weekend, I almost threw my phone out the window because I've never heard our brand pop off so much on Shopify. Oh, wow. I mean, our candle, of course, is in a beautiful tartan box. My mom was a big tartan fan back in the 80s and the 90s. And our holiday scent is called Winter Watch, which is the name of the farm my mom lives on where I grew up. So it's a really personal scent to me. But I think people are craving like, you know, we've had the frosted sugar cookie candles and the this and the that for so many years that they just want the best holiday candles. So it's working out great for business for me right now. I mean, the Internet's a really funny world, right? I had a video go viral about wrapping paper at home goods and how to what I pick versus what I would never pick at home goods. And it's at 13 million views or something like that. And those kind of virality moments always help help your brand, help your business. So I'm very grateful.

B (36:00)

And so much of it, I think, is, you know, especially with your brand, it's all about kind of that experiential aspect you talked about, you know, touch and the visual, but also about the sense of, you know, like, tell me why scent is such an important part of, you know, retail right now. Like, how does that end up bringing a different vibe to the space? You know, as you said, through a candle.

C (36:23)

It's so funny because if you look, take a step back and look at the landscape of scent in the last eight years, I mean, I can't think of someone who isn't obsessed with scent either. For their hair, for their pet, for their body cream, for, with their baccarat rouge, with their Le Labo, whatever it may be, the scent category is on fire. So when we launched scent, A, we knew that and we wanted to take advantage of it. But B, I believe to your point, that scent is like the number one memory maker. And especially as you go into the holidays or how many times have you traveled and you remember the smell of that hotel and then you smell it like two years later on someone and you're like, oh my God. And your memory gets jogged and you're like, that reminds me of this trip I took to Europe with my friends. So I think scent is incredibly personal and memory making. So there's no better time to make memories than during the holiday season. So I think our scent that we came out with in particular harkens back to an old school time of nostalgic holidays. And I think retailers are realizing, look, retail's back, brick and mortar's back, IRL is back, pop ups are back and the customer is super savvy. Like, they see so much stuff on TikTok and Instagram. They want a multi layered experience. They want it to smell right, they want to touch stuff, they want to sample things. So if you pop into our store at Hudson Yards, it's like a mini jewel box of holiday magic right now. Smells good, looks good, music's good, I love it. I think it's really important for anyone starting a brand or whether you're even having a dinner party, you need to think about these things, you know?

B (38:04)

Yeah, I think that's really interesting, actually. I was in Covent Garden, which is, I love Coventry, you know, everything Christmassy. And it does seem like they've, they've gotten fully into the spirit. But so much of it, like walking past the stores, you could literally smell the different kind of scents coming out. It does feel like that, that kind of experiential retail is now not just about the visuals, which obviously, you know, Ralph Lauren was, was well known for, but you know, in terms of the scent as well, it's something that almost like recollects the the brand. What was the, the scent that you guys used at Christmas with Ralph Lauren?

C (38:41)

It was the Ralph Lauren Holiday candle. Yeah, it was a. It was a. I mean, that scent is burned into my brain. And when we were developing my candle, when I was working with the perfumer for our collection, obviously that was something I wanted to reflect a bit in it. But the Ralph Lauren scents are beautiful. Like, I still have some to this day. What is this one? California Romantic. I mean, what a good name. You know, it sells you a loan on it.

D (39:11)

Totally. Well, when it comes to the interest on this Ralph Lauren Christmas trend on social is to what extent is it about getting the look for less considering the state of the economy and the consumer behavior? Like, is it everything?

C (39:24)

It's all that. It's all that. I mean, it is a weird time to be on social and consumerism land, right? I mean, you see it. Some people are. It's the gamut of what you see on social. So I've always made it my mission to help people. It's what I do on the Today show. Like, I'm doing this huge Thanksgiving thing with Olivia Munn coming up. And it's like how you get that look without spending a lot of money. And so what I'm seeing crazy on TikTok with the Ralph Lauren Christmas thing is it's so funny. Even home goods buyers are tuned into this. The TJ Maxx buyers. There's this whole like aisle of tartan plaid, brass lamps and hunting prints and brass bowls. And I was like, man, these, this team knows what they're doing. They chased into it quick. So people are going to like their Michaels, their craft stores for tartan ribbon. They are going on ebay to look for old Ralph Lauren pillows. You know, I think everybody is nervous to spend right now, but on quality pieces like a cable knit sweater, you'll have that forever. But I think considering people calling this a trend, which I don't look at as a trend, it's just the way I've decorated Christmas for so long that I think people are really trying to be cautious about spending.

D (40:39)

Totally. So you, you're seeing retailers get in on the buzz? Are you seeing other, like, I don't know, brands have always done classics, but how else are you seeing brands latch on?

C (40:50)

I mean, it's funny. Even, Even I saw L.L. bean opened up a pop up here in the city.

B (40:56)

L.L.

C (40:57)

Bean is another heritage brand like Ralph, right? Been around forever. But I was, look, I was stalking it on social media and it's like easy music playing Plaid pillows everywhere, like old canoes. Like people are just really leaning back into it. Even little things. Like I'm seeing brands change their Instagram bio logo to like a fun deep red color. Right. I think people are just trying to like check the box in any way that they can. I'm seeing it a big way with photography from brands. Brands like Abercrombie and Fitch just re released this cool vintage surplus revival of Abercrombie stuff that's very 90s Ralph. Right. Like everybody's like, wait a minute, we were good at that too, 20, 30 years ago. We're going to bring it back out. J. Cruise, another one, right? Getting back to their roots with their catalogs and with the styling and with the music in the stores. I think everybody's just getting a return to old school, which I love Bright Eyed.

B (41:57)

And you know, I don't know maybe how much of this is like spun by films like Home Alone or you know, kind of Nancy Meyer's book Christmas. Like that's kind of the other aesthetic that I'm seeing that's all kind of tied in to this. Was this kind of like an inspiration when you were doing it? And if not, what was the inspiration that you were looking at?

C (42:21)

To answer your first question, I think the nostalgic cravings are 100% happening in film. I think Nancy Meyer's films make you feel better. I think Home Alone makes you remember when you were a kid in the 90s and everything was good and the world wasn't falling apart and sugar cookies were being made in the kitchen. It's just a good time. So I 100% think that aesthetic is contributing to that. People put Nancy Meyers RALPH Lauren in one TikTok. They're like how I'm doing a Nancy Myers Ralph Lauren kitchen. Which they're kind of not the same. They kind of are. You know, you could throw Martha Stewart from the 90s into that aesthetic too. Right. It's all kind of those familiar warm faces. They were never an inspiration to me other than like I always used like decorated that way. Like my mom always had like toilet curtains and like use like slip covers on things. Like it was very 90s in the way, but that people are like finally realizing after years of buying mid century couches and you know, like these modern armchairs that they want just like a good slip covered chair with a tall pillow. Right. Like our parents loved it for a reason. Like people are just kind of growing up in that way aesthetically, I think.

B (43:37)

How would you differentiate it? Sorry. With with like Christmas kind of quich versus I guess like getting that old money aesthetic. I know that a lot of it in the stores had to do with lighting. You know, how would you say, like what was the, the elevation kind of strategy? And how, how would you say that, you know, customers or people who are watching you on TikTok can kind of do that. So it's not something that just comes off with those details.

C (44:02)

I mean, I think it's also important to realize and I try to remind people of this. Like Ralph Lauren stores were like these beautiful mahogany hand built spaces with theatrical lighting and velvet drapes and spiral staircases and thousands of dollars worth of vintage trunks and rugs. Like there's a lot that the normal person can't do in their home. But like little things. Like I'm a big fan. I'm a member of the no Overheads, like no overhead lights club. Like I have been for a long time. So like one thing you could do in your space is not use the overheads and really rely on lamps. Bring the temperature down, bring the lighting down, then start to bring in those layers. Little things like that. I think people often get overwhelmed. They're like, well, mine doesn't look like a Ralph Lauren Christmas. I'm like, do you have a mansion on Madison Avenue? Because I don't, because no one's house is going to look like that. But, but you know, there's little styling cues. It's really a styling play too. Right. Like, you know, people, how they style their garland on their mantle piece like we used. I still to this day put like magnolia leaves and branches mixed into it. That was a big Ralph thing. Mixing in red berries, like keeping the tinsel out, but the natural stuff in, you know, like double layering garland, things like that. It's kind of like a DIY hat dream.

B (45:23)

Yes.

D (45:24)

I mean, is this kid friendly? Do people with kids do Ralph Lauren Christmas or it's just not. Is that cute enough? I don't know.

C (45:31)

I mean it's so funny. All my friends have kids and I mean look, are you going to find an elf in the shelf in a Ralph Lauren store? No. So like there's definitely amount of kitsch not involved in a Ralph Lauren Christmas. Like not a lot of tinsel, not a lot of this kitschy, like bright, bright colored stockings and things like that. But Christmas, and I say this at the end of every one of my videos, you guys, this is about you. Like your family's the one celebrating this. Do not get over the Internet is a very Overwhelming place, whether someone's telling you what to do with your hair or do with your nails or do with your Christmas decor. And I think people get really overwhelmed, which is why this trend feels familiar to people, because they're like, I can buy this plaid dish towel at home goods and feel like I'm checking the box off. But it's not super Kitty. It's not super Kitty. It's a grown up, sophisticated vibe.

D (46:24)

Right on.

C (46:25)

Yeah, yeah.

B (46:28)

And I was going to ask, you know, is it also a bit of a chase for that kind of luxury experience in the home? A time when, you know, so many people have, you know, kind of cost of living concerns or, you know, are worried about other areas? Like, is it just something to feel a little bit more luxurious? Like, do you think that that's what's kind of motivated that push?

C (46:48)

I do. I mean, but there's been a shift, and I talk. I've been talking about this for like a year and a half on TikTok and Instagram. People's homes, they're craving more of this elevated experience on a budget. So they're flooding their rooms with color, including the ceiling, which is a very old British thing to do. Right. Like buying picture molding on Amazon or making it themselves at Home Depot and putting it up and painting it deep burgundy. Right. Like, people are trying to have this lust manark British country style home in new builds across the Midwest. Right. Like, it's just a huge thing. I think people, after the pandemic, realized, I think we all unanimously looked at each other and said, why do I live in a modern farmhouse? I live in Boston. Like, I don't live on a farm. Like, what am I doing with this aesthetic? And I think people are trying to take back ownership of personality in their house. Like. Like the fact that greens and chocolate browns and, like, blues have been color of the year for paint for the last three years is wild to me. Coming off of farmhouse, modern, chip and Joanna era, seeing people paint their kitchens sage green or, like, deep red. It's a very British thing, and I think we're all kind of getting caught up.

B (48:05)

Yeah, it's quite funny for me because it's all these things you're used and old heritage properties that are incredibly drafty and cold that are inspiring these aesthetics. But it's really fun as well, because I think that there's an American take on it that almost mixes everything up. You know, there's. There's so much of it, which is almost like a reinterpretation of it. And you know, with, with retail, do you see that there's going to be more of these kind of themes evolving? I do. Where if a brand has a really strong esthetic, like people are almost going to try and replicate it maybe not quite the same way as Ralph Lauren, because that one's obviously much more stronger than others.

C (48:45)

I mean, look at Farrow and Ball. Faram Ball has been around forever and like people are searching like crazy Farron Ball duped for X, Y and Z color or wallpapers. Like, when was the last time you heard of all these 21, 20 some year old girls craving to buy floral wallpaper? Like, this is an old school thing. So they're seeing stuff from John Darien, even to old Laura Ashley, and they're like trying to replicate it in a new way. Ralph's kind of been a constant through all of that. Always wallpaper, always molding, always color, always mahogany. So I think people are just realizing, like, wait a minute, this brand's been here the whole time doing this vibe. Like, I can get in on this.

D (49:31)

Nice. As these themes are, as these themes are catching on, nostalgia and old, old money and all these things post holiday. Like, what do you see as you're looking at home trends? Like, where is this going maybe for spring or any. Any predictions for, for next season?

C (49:47)

Oh, man, I'm actually planning this with the Today show right now. A big, I'm trying to do a big trend reveal thing for next year. Our predictions. But I don't think the moody colors are going away anytime soon for grounding a space like I think we're going to see in the spring even more of, in the blue palette. You know, like full navy blue rooms, full pastel blue and yellow rooms. Like, I think everybody's kind of craving that, I think more pattern on pattern. Like I've never seen as many people as I have in the city trying to look for upholsterest, like trying to like upholstery reupholster things they've had forever, but do it in a fun, you know, block print or something. Like, I think think everybody's trying to get a little bit more eclectic in their style. So I think that will stick around for sure. I think this Ralph Lauren Christmas aesthetic may just be like the beginning of this. Like, I think this Nancy Myers thing that's bubbling up everywhere is like not gonna stop. People are getting like curtains to hang in front of their dishwasher to make it look like it's a cottage. Like, I mean, people are getting really, really crafty And I think people having fun. Fun, to be honest and personalizing, like the renter friendly section of TikTok with people completely renovating their house with like stick on everything, I think is just gonna like take off. Yeah.

B (51:08)

Not to be too. Too kind of demoralizing, but with no one being able to own a home, at least on this size of the Atlantic, it's always like, how do you manage with. With less. I think it's interesting as well, that kind of coastal aesthetic, like the. The sports influences. You know, will the. I'm someone with a boat be the. Like the next thing? I think that would be quite funny.

C (51:33)

You know, maybe the Ralph Lauren aesthetic from Christmas goes really into like the cricket and the yachting and all of that. Like, I mean, I have this cool old Ralph. Wouldn't it be like I could see that. I mean, I'm the crate. I've had polo mallets hanging in my bedroom on the wall for like 20 years. So, like, I love random sports equipment that I don't use. I have a cricket bat in my living room that I bought in Notting Hill that I've never played cricket in my life. But I think maybe I'm going to lead the way on that. We're in.

D (52:05)

That sounds great. Start the hashtag. Get in early.

C (52:10)

Cricket girl Spring. Yes.

B (52:12)

We'll make that happen.

C (52:15)

Totally.

D (52:16)

Oh, my God, I love it. Well, last question. We're in November 17th. Would Ralph Lauren sing say it's too early to decorate for Christmas.

C (52:23)

Ralph Lauren would not say it's too early to decorate for Christmas because I think the Ralph Lauren windows were unveiled like yesterday or the day before.

B (52:30)

Right.

C (52:31)

I actually need to get uptown and see. I decorated this weekend because this past weekend because that this timeframe, a week or two before Thanksgiving was always our dark time at Ralph when we were upside down in windows, like doing spray snow and frost and things. So I think it's just part of my blood at this point to do it this early. But this year came early, didn't it? Everybody's going nuts.

B (52:54)

Yes.

D (52:54)

I. I loved it. The earlier, the better Halloween.

C (52:58)

It's making us feel good.

D (52:59)

Exactly. Give us some joy. We like joy.

C (53:02)

Exactly. Totally.

D (53:04)

Oh, my gosh, Preston, this was oh, so fun. Thank you so much for being our guest today.

C (53:09)

Thank you guys. It's such a treat. Good to see you again, Jill.

D (53:12)

You as. That's all for this episode. Our theme music is by Otis McDonald. If you liked this episode, be sure to share it with someone else you think would. Thanks for listening to the Glossy Podcast.