Nagnata’s Laura May Gibbs on sitting out of 'gross’ Black Friday sales

Summary

The Glossy Podcast: Laura May Gibbs on Nagnata’s Stand Against 'Gross' Black Friday Sales

Release Date: November 27, 2024

In this insightful episode of The Glossy Podcast, host Jill Manoff engages in a compelling conversation with Laura May Gibbs, founder and creative director of Nagnata, a nine-year-old luxury knitwear brand based in Byron Bay, Australia. The discussion delves into Nagnata’s brand evolution, sustainability efforts, community engagement through wellness retreats, retail strategies, and the brand’s principled stance against traditional Black Friday sales.

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Brand Evolution: From Movement Wear to Lifestyle Brand

Laura May Gibbs provides a comprehensive overview of Nagnata’s journey from its inception in the movement wear space to its current status as a multifaceted lifestyle brand.

Key Points:

• Origins in Movement Wear: Nagnata was founded with a focus on activewear, inspired by Laura’s passion for yoga and dance. The brand emphasized premium knitwear made from natural, renewable, and organic fibers, diverging from the prevalent synthetic materials in the activewear market.

  “We really focused on premium knitwear… natural fibers as opposed to synthetics for health reasons and also just for that beautiful premium feel.” [01:06]

• Expansion into Lifestyle Categories: Over the years, Nagnata has steadily expanded its product range to include swimwear, streetwear, menswear, and more. This evolution was driven by a commitment to perfecting fabrications and introducing innovative, seamless knitwear.

  “We wanted to evolve Magnata into a fully fledged lifestyle brand. Was always the intention to involve, evolve the categories, but it was slow and steady.” [02:30]

Sustainability and Purpose-Driven Branding

Sustainability is a cornerstone of Nagnata’s brand ethos. Laura draws parallels between Nagnata and Patagonia, highlighting their shared commitment to environmental responsibility and community engagement.

Key Points:

• Inspiration from Patagonia: Laura admires Patagonia’s integrity and sustainability efforts, using it as a benchmark for Nagnata’s own practices.

  “Patagonia was definitely an inspiration for me… they are really built around activities that people are passionate about.” [05:55]

• Philanthropic Initiatives: Nagnata actively engages in philanthropic work, hosting retreats that focus on wellness and personal transformation. These retreats foster a deeper connection with the community beyond clothing.

  “We host retreats now… it just allows space for them to relax, heal, tap out from their daily lives and go on this journey of self exploration.” [08:22]

Community Engagement Through Wellness Retreats

Nagnata has pioneered a unique approach by integrating wellness retreats into its brand experience, blending fashion with holistic well-being.

Key Points:

• Authentic Experiences: Unlike influencer-centric events, Nagnata’s retreats are open to the broader community, fostering genuine connections among participants.

  “It's a genuinely open to the community… it's a four-day experience where guests turn off their phones as much as possible.” [08:32]

• Comprehensive Wellness Programs: The retreats offer a variety of activities, including yoga, meditation, breathwork, and creative workshops, aimed at personal growth and relaxation.

  “We do yoga, dance, movement, meditation… different practices resonate with different guests.” [10:57]

US Pop-Up Success: Insights from New York Fashion Week

Laura recounts the successful pop-up event during New York Fashion Week, providing valuable insights into the shopping habits of US consumers and the strategic importance of in-person brand experiences.

Key Points:

• Consumer Engagement: The pop-up allowed loyal customers to experience Nagnata’s fabrics firsthand, addressing hesitations about materials like merino wool.

  “People have been buying online but wanted to try the fabrications… it was amazing to have a pop-up space where die-hard customers could try the collection.” [14:09]

• Unexpected Color Popularity: Contrary to her expectations, Laura was pleasantly surprised by the New York audience’s enthusiasm for Nagnata’s vibrant color palette.

  “I thought our New Yorkers were going to be buying mainly the blacks and the browns… but they all loved the color so much more than I was expecting.” [16:40]

Retail Strategy: Expanding Presence and Maintaining Exclusivity

Nagnata emphasizes the importance of maintaining a controlled retail presence to preserve brand integrity and ensure quality customer experiences.

Key Points:

• Selective Retail Partnerships: While Nagnata collaborates with prestigious retailers like Bergdorf Goodman and Holt Renfrew, it remains cautious to avoid market saturation.

  “We are really selective and we don't want to over saturate the market as well.” [22:09]

• Future Store Openings: The brand is set to open its second Australian store in Sydney, with plans to expand internationally, particularly in the US, once operations stabilize.

  “We are just about to open our second store here in Australia in Sydney… retail is a big focus for the next three to five years.” [16:45]

Marketing and Influencer Strategy: Organic Growth Over Paid Promotions

Nagnata prioritizes organic marketing strategies, relying on authentic customer experiences rather than traditional influencer partnerships.

Key Points:

• Organic Influencer Collaborations: The brand avoids paid gifting and influencer mandates, ensuring that endorsements are genuine and unsolicited.

  “We don't do any paid gifting… everything's been organic.” [20:21]

• Challenges in Communication: While striving for beauty and elevation in campaigns, Nagnata acknowledges the need to enhance informational communication about their sustainable practices.

  “We could be doing more in that space… it's a slow burn.” [20:09]

Funding and Growth Plans: Navigating Self-Funding and Strategic Partnerships

Laura discusses the challenges and considerations of remaining self-funded while contemplating future strategic partnerships to support expansion.

Key Points:

• Self-Funded Success: Nagnata has thrived as a self-funded entity for nine years, fostering disciplined growth and sustainable practices.

  “Nine years of self funded business… it's tough but amazing.” [27:27]

• Future Partnerships: While open to strategic partnerships, Laura emphasizes the importance of aligning with partners who uphold the brand’s values and ethos.

  “I would like to partner with someone that can also help us open all the stores globally… upholding the ideals of the brand.” [27:32]

Stance on Black Friday: Upholding Brand Integrity

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Nagnata’s principled decision to abstain from Black Friday sales, reflecting their commitment to sustainability and brand value.

Key Points:

• Rejecting Traditional Sales: Laura explains that Nagnata has historically avoided Black Friday discounts to prevent devaluing their premium products.

  “We have never done Black Friday… we didn't want to devalue these products.” [34:19]

• Ethical Consumerism: Nagnata encourages consumers to consider the impact of their purchasing decisions on small, purpose-driven brands, advocating for mindful shopping over impulsive sales-driven purchases.

  “We wanted customers to think about the businesses they're supporting and the products they're buying.” [34:14]

• Occasional Sales: While maintaining a general stance against frequent discounts, Nagnata does hold occasional sales to manage excess stock, ensuring these sales are special and do not undermine the brand’s luxury image.

  “We do the occasional sale… a special moment rather than a constant expectation.” [38:12]

Recognition and Awards: Celebrating Sustainable Achievements

Towards the episode's conclusion, Laura shares the exciting news of Nagnata receiving the IMG Fashion Laureate Award for Sustainable Brand of the Year in Australia. This accolade underscores the brand’s dedication to sustainability and its impact within the fashion industry.

“We have just won the IMG Fashion Laureate Award for sustainable Brand of the Year in Australia… it’s really nice to be recognized for our work in this space.” [39:17]

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Conclusion

Laura May Gibbs' discussion on The Glossy Podcast offers a deep dive into Nagnata’s commitment to sustainability, thoughtful brand evolution, and community-focused initiatives. By maintaining integrity in their business practices and resisting the pressure to conform to traditional retail norms like Black Friday sales, Nagnata exemplifies how luxury brands can thrive while upholding ethical standards. The episode not only highlights Laura’s visionary leadership but also celebrates Nagnata’s recent recognition, marking a significant milestone in their sustainable fashion journey.

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Notable Quotes:

• “We really focused on premium knitwear… natural fibers as opposed to synthetics for health reasons and also just for that beautiful premium feel.” — Laura May Gibbs [01:06]

• “Patagonia was definitely an inspiration for me… they are really built around activities that people are passionate about.” — Laura May Gibbs [05:55]

• “We host retreats now… it just allows space for them to relax, heal, tap out from their daily lives and go on this journey of self exploration.” — Laura May Gibbs [08:22]

• “We don't do any paid gifting… everything's been organic.” — Laura May Gibbs [20:21]

• “We have never done Black Friday… we didn't want to devalue these products.” — Laura May Gibbs [34:19]

• “We have just won the IMG Fashion Laureate Award for sustainable Brand of the Year in Australia… it’s really nice to be recognized for our work in this space.” — Laura May Gibbs [39:17]

Transcript

[A]

Thanks for tuning in to the Glossy podcast. I'm your host, Jill Manoff and today I'm sitting down with Lara May, founder and creative director of Nagnotta, the nine year old luxury knitwear brand that launched with a focus on activewear. Based in Byron Bay, Australia, Nagnada invaded the US In September, hosting its first pop up in the States during New York Fashion Week. I wanted to ask Lara May about the success of the pop up and what it taught her about the shopping habits of local consumers, especially considering the US is Nagnada's second largest market. I also wanted to ask how the brand is approaching holiday this season, particularly as it once took a stand against Black Friday, reportedly. I read that you got to tell me if that's true. Welcome Lara, how are you?

[B]

I'm really well. Thank you so much for having me.

[A]

Thanks so much for being here. I feel like this was a long time coming. I feel like I've been following the brand for a while now, but no longer just activewear. You do so much more. Tell me about the brand's evolution.

[B]

Yes. So I mean, we spoke years ago, didn't we? We've had a few conversations over the years and you've watched the evolution of Magnata. We started in the movement wear space. I personally love to use the word movement where it was such a strange thing. When I was first concept in Nagnata, there wasn't this huge boom in the activewear industry. And then as we launched it took about two years in development and then all, all these other brands kind of came out at the same time. So it was interesting. We all must have been tuning into a gap in the market or something that we as women felt that we were looking for. And the difference with our brand is we really focused on premium knitwear. So whilst it's designed for movement, it was born of my love of yoga and dance. It really was a uniform that could take you throughout the entire day and with beautiful natural, renewable, organic fibers. For me it was really about getting out of synthetics. I felt like everyone at the time was just wearing like black Lycra in the yoga room. And I come from a fashion background. I designed for many brands for over 15 years before I started my own. And I just really was looking for something for myself to be wearing to practice and transition throughout the day that was made of natural fibers as opposed to synthetics for health reasons and also just for that beautiful premium feel that you get from wearing natural fibers as opposed to say nylons and synthetics and yeah, we started with the movement wear space, but as you've seen over the years, we've really wanted to evolve Magnata into a fully fledged lifestyle brand. Was always the intention to involve, evolve the categories, but it was slow and steady. Right. Like we really wanted to perfect those fabrications and offer something new to the market with our seamless knitwear made of merino wool, our organic cotton movement wear. And once we've really perfected those fabrications and focused on innovation, then we moved into swimwear. We started working with some silks for a little bit of ready to wear alpacas, like premium sweaters, street wear, menswear and Yeah, a few new categories in store for next year as well.

[A]

Oh, great. Cannot wait to see. You were saying a lot of activewear brands were starting when, around the time you launched yours or maybe shortly after. I also have noticed, Wow. A lot of. When I think of like the brands that are coming out of Australia, there's great swimwear, there's great activewear. I mean, is everybody just comparatively very fit?

[B]

Active? Active, Basically, yes, yes. I mean, we are a lifestyle driven country, I feel, and especially the industry here, even our ready to wear brands, you'll see that they have really strong resort wear collections because we've got, especially growing up in Sydney where I did and now living in Byron Bay, you're at the beach every day in summer and you're going there before or after work. People are very fit and healthy. We've got so much beautiful nature to explore here. You're outdoors a lot, especially in the coastlines of Australia. I would say Melbourne's a little bit different. Melbourne's more of a, an urban city, so people dress a little bit different down there. And I would say the fashion brands coming out of Melbourne, I have a different signature to say the ones coming out of the east coast. But yeah, look, especially in Byron, where I am now, it's, it's women living their nag nada. They'll wear them in the morning to practice, they'll layer it up for work and then they'll go to a beautiful walk or a surf after work. And so it really is a very practical uniform. And for me especially kind of having my own journey within the fashion industry and seeing all the wastage, it was very important to just design collections that I knew women and men were going to get a lot of wear out of because I think that's such an important consideration when we use the word sustainability, is that they're not just pieces that are hanging in your closet and you wear them once or twice. You know, there's space for those pieces for sure. I appreciate them and I have a few myself. But as a designer, I really wanted to create those really functional pieces that women just like, say they never take off.

[A]

Yes, I love that. Well, not only have you held true to sustainability, there was a story that we did a long time ago and it had to do with you were almost looking to a brand like Patagonia as something to aspire to in terms of doing good and your charity work and such. Has that held true? And tell me about the challenge of staying that way, of being a purpose driven, purpose led brand throughout the pandemic and when customers are cutting corners and being very budget conscious. What's been the road there?

[B]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, Patagonia, I think is such an incredible example of a lifestyle brand that is so like true to their values and their brand pillars. And it was definitely an inspiration for me. I mean, obviously a very different style of product, a different level of product and we have much more of a, I guess a fact, passion direction to our brand. But when I was looking around those early days, there was only a handful of brands that I felt I could look up to that were doing things differently in the space, more consciously, with integrity. Patagonia was one of them. I mean, what I love about Patagonia and where I think Nagnada has a similar relationship is it's really built around activities that people are passionate about and that just gives a beautiful doorway. For example, we host retreats now. We've done two retreats this year. So we're able, able to connect with our community beyond clothing, beyond this digital space and sharing practices that really help, you know, your well being. We do yoga, dance, movement, meditation, all kinds of amazing things on these retreats. And people are also just naturally wearing and experiencing the brand. So I think in that sense it's a little similar to the world of Patagonia, all of their environmental work, they're really true to that. I mean, we can talk a little bit more about where we've started with ours in the early days and how that work has evolved. But yeah, we do a lot of philanthropic work which is very close to my heart for me. It's like if I'm going to spend my time on something and build a brand which takes like a very long time, you know, I'd been in the industry long enough to know it's not just a five year project to see, you know, success however you want to kind of frame success. It was going to be the next 10, 20, potentially more years of my life. So I wanted to build a brand that was going to give back to community, that I would stay engaged with, that I felt like had purpose for myself outside of just producing. So I think it takes a particular kind of person to have that drive because it's not easy. It's like you're giving away a lot of money sometimes when you don't have a lot of money because you've committed to a charity or a fundraiser or an organization or we're creating particular products. But it's so fulfilling and it keeps me going. So, you know, we, we keep doing what we do.

[A]

I love that. Tell me about these retreats. That's so interesting. Would you say it's more comparable to like an influencer trip or this is like these are your VIP shoppers or something?

[B]

So no, it's genuinely open to the community. Our first retreat was held in March and it was definitely we had a mix. We had half of it were people that I didn't know, so customers and fans of the brand and then the other were friends of the brand. So it was a mix, but it's a genuine experience. It's not an influence retreat. Everyone that's there has paid and is really committed to the process, which I think is important in these environments. We've definitely done like wellness events in LA before where it's kind of more media friends of the brand influences. But that I would call an event, I don't call that a retreat. This was a four day experience. And we host at soma, which is on a beautiful property here in the hinterlands of Byron. And guests kind of turn off their phones as much as possible for four days. And I have a whole world of teachers that I genuinely practice with from yoga, meditation, breath work, Kundalini, we do journaling, writing, workshops, and then we have like a beautiful magnesium pool and saunas and ice bars. And I take the guests on a journey and we work with different, slightly different themes on each retreat. And my kind of role is weaving together all of these practices to give the guests hopefully a little bit of a transformation or a shift, depending what they're working on or just allow space for them to relax, heal, tap out from their daily lives and go on this journey of self exploration. So I also kind of give some guidance in ways to kind of access your highest creative potential and different practices that I've used over the years to work through blockages and just really working with that creative energy. There's Lots of different practices on offer at the retreat. And yeah, different practices resonate with different guests. And then we did our second retreat. Oh, just a month ago, and that was people from all over the world. Most of the guests. Yeah, I hadn't met any of the guests before. Only had two friends on that retreat. And that was incredible. Like, the bar was definitely set high to, yeah, deliver an amazing experience to everybody. And yeah, it was so powerful. And I was like five months pregnant when I was hosting that retreat, so definitely different.

[A]

And she is podcasting today. Several months pregnant. Thank you for being here. Laura May.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. No, I love it. Baby girl's been working hard the last six months.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Amazing how many people came to that second one.

[B]

17. We have 17 on retreat. So we had 13 residentials and because there's a big main house at SOMA, and so we had 13 residentials and then the rest were locals that came by for day passes.

[A]

So.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Well, this is obviously a wellness retreat. Can a fashion brand be a wellness brand? Do you consider your Nag Nada a wellness brand?

[B]

I mean, we have that aspect for sure. I consider us, like, I use the word fashion, lifestyle, because we're fashion, but we're also so lifestyle focused. And I don't think there's a lot of brands out there that have a similar model to us that I've seen anyway. And we just focus on doing what feels right for us and what's true to, you know, mine and my sister's vision. And it evolves as it evolves. So sometimes we're definitely feeling more lifestyle. But then, you know, we'll show at Paris Fashion Week, New York Fashion Week. We do runways, you know, we have editorials in all the top magazines. So we kind of straddle both worlds. You know, I look at platforms like Goop, and I feel like they do that. Goop's a wellness platform, but they also sell beautiful, high end fashion. You know, I think there's more opportunity now to kind of play in both worlds still with integrity because your customers, like, that's their lifestyle. You know, you can enjoy fashion and have great style, but also want to learn to take care of yourself. And that's kind of. Yeah. Where. Where we come into it.

[A]

I don't. I feel like I didn't creep on your website enough. Do you guys happen to have content like a blog or a journal or.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we do. We have the Nag Nada journal. So on the journal we will do blog posts about different retreats. Or different philanthropic projects that we're working on or different things in the community. I personally love writing. I mean up until this point I do most of the writing for the brand and now we have a digital team that will obviously help with comms. But for the first, yeah, seven or so years I would write all of the journal posts and if you go deep into our ethos and our pillars, I would do all of that writing. Like my dad's a writer so I love storytelling through the brand. Not only with visuals but with language. But yeah, I actually would love to create more of like a maybe biannual magazine where we can or even like a brand book is like my next project I'd like to work on where we can go a lot deeper with a lot of the work that we're doing and yeah, just share a little bit more in that way.

[A]

Totally. Well, let's jump to this pop up that you held. I want to hear all about it. I know we talked just before or maybe just when it was opening back in September in New York. And first of all, you have a large US shopper base. Yes. And more so in LA than New York.

[B]

We do. So the US is our second biggest customer base after Australia. I mean Australia being home ground. But I spent a lot of time in America. I've had a visa over there since I've started Nagnata and so have always been back and forth. So I do think in the early days a lot of it was just genuine community building. Over in la, I mean I spent time in both LA and New York, probably a little bit more time in la cuz I enjoyed the nature and having a bit more space. But I love, love the energy of New York. But we kind of really focus on tapping into the wellness market. I think in LA was like a natural first place for the brand to grow. And I realized after some time that I'd done quite a few events in la, but I hadn't really done. I'd go and show at fashion week and fashion markets in New York. So I was always there personally. But we hadn't really had a chance to connect with our customers in person. And once you start to discover the brand, more customers really want to try the fabrications. They don't know how the knit's going to perform. People having their mind like oh I can't wear merino wool, it's too itchy or it's too hot or how am I going to wear that cycling and, and they're, you know, it's a premium Price point. So sometimes there's a lot of hesitation online without having tried the garments on. And so it was so amazing to be able have a pop up space in New York where like a lot of our like die hard customers that had followed us for years or just been buying online were able to come down and try the whole collection and chat to us and just get to know the brand more. So that was the main reason for wanting to host that in New York. And then of course New York's like a slightly different style and a slightly different customer that's so relevant to us. You know, I think the New York woman, she's like a working woman and she's busy but she's still working out, you know, before, after work, every day. You know, she needs those functional garments and she wants to look chic. So it's really, really relevant and similar to our customers here. But we just hadn't really been able to focus on her in the same way that we had been in LA with lots of events. So yeah, it was awesome. And you know what I found surprising? I can't if I said this to you at the time, but I thought our New Yorkers were going to be buying mainly the blacks and the browns and the khakis. But they all loved the color like so much more than I was expecting. So that was a really cool surprise to see how New York embrace like all of our really bright hues.

[A]

Yes, Surprise, surprise. Do you think a permanent store would make sense in New York?

[B]

Yeah, that's the dream. We, we definitely were testing the waters for a retail store. I would actually place a retail store in New York before we do la. I think for retail New York is just, there's a lot more happening with, you know, people out and about, shopping the streets, walking the streets. That's what I love about New York is that you still hit the streets and you discover stores. And I love in person shopping. I'm not actually a huge online shopper even myself. I, I still really appreciate going into store and trying on pieces and discovering them and seeing what I'm drawn to. And I spend so much time online for my business that I kind of don't want to shop online as well. So for me retail is still really important for the brand. And we're just about to open our second store here in Australia in Sydney in a few weeks. And yeah, for us retail just does so well. It's, it's definitely a focus of the brand now in the next three, three to five years to open quite A few retail stores and definitely around the world. America would be the second country after Australia once we get our operations really running smoothly here. But yeah, we've had our Byron based store now for about two years and it's just been so great to have like a home for the brand. But people have to come from Sydney to Byron to be able to shop up. So yeah, finally opening in Sydney, I.

[A]

Feel like, I mean there's many differentiators about your brand, including the sustainability elements, but it makes so much sense. Just like you were saying, because I don't know that I've ever felt activewear like yours where it's just the knit and the quality and it's thick and it's like it feels luxe. And I think that's so important to have your customer be able to feel it.

[B]

Yeah. And that's it. I think it's. Women are not used to feeling that style of like compression garment, but in a soft natural fiber. So especially with our seamless, they were designed with really high contents of merino wool, Australian and New Zealand wool, with the recycled synthetic, which you do need a little bit for stretch and return. But as opposed to say standard sportswear brands that will be using 100 synthetics, whether recycled or not, it's still synthetic. It still goes onto your skin. We still absorb that. I really wanted to get those synthetics off women's skin whilst offering got like fabrications that will offer you support but like not restrict your breath. Like when I get into a compression synthetic garment, I find that like I feel so sucked in that I lose my breath, my expansion of breath and I. It feels too tight and then I sweat in it. So it really is a completely different sensation when you get into say our merino seamless knits, for example. And I find once women are into it and feel that level of comfort, then they're hooked and that's all they want to wear. And it's not like I think sustainability with the fibers and the innovation and that is like our responsibility as a brand. But once our customers get into it and start to think about the fiber that's on their skin, it just allows them to be a little bit more aware about, well, maybe what are the other fibers in the other garments that I'm wearing close to my body. And it just kind of naturally starts that thought process which I think, you know, is really important. We all talk about clean beauty, but have we been talking about clean clothes in the same way over the years?

[A]

No. No. And that education, like are you able to rely on or put that message in the hands of influencers, to kind of get the word out. Does that work? Or is it all. It's all you. It's all you, baby.

[B]

You know, it's. I think that we could be doing more in that space, to be honest. I think that sometimes our communication is been lost or it's not reaching everyone to the full capacity. But that's, I think just the nature of being a small brand. And we're focusing on so many different areas. Like we're making sure our campaigns are beautiful and elevated so they catch the attention of everybody. And sometimes we're leading with that over like too much information, heavy language. Because I think we're all kind of inundated with so much greenwashing and preaching from so many brands. So it's, it's, it's definitely a little bit of a discovery journey with Magnata and we could do more and we hope to over you know, the next few years as I can grow our kind of communications team and our marketing team. But in terms of like, we don't do any paid gifting. We've never paid an influencer. We've. Well, I mean, we just don't even have the budget for that. So everything's been organic. So we will never tell a girl what to post or what to say or anything. Like if we do some gifting, which we do do in, especially in la, we have a press office over there. It's very organic. So whatever the girls or the guys, people at Genderless Brand now, whatever they want to post, whatever they want to say is up to them. And so they're not really going in with like a hard sell. But they often will say little things like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is Marina. Or I can't believe this is cotton. And. But yeah, you know, it's a bit of a slow burn.

[A]

What's been your take on retail partners? Because I can envision your brand being at like a Net A Porter or a retailer that, that focuses on sustainability. But you tell me.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, Net A Porter was our biggest customer for many years. They were the first major that picked up the brand in our first season. Okay. So we, yeah, we've had an incredible experience with Net a port we dropped off in the last year or so. I mean, I think it's pretty common knowledge they've gone through a lot of changes over there and buying, selling and, you know, so I think our products stopped working so well for them in terms of like sports More sportswear because that's how they really push the brand as opposed to our ready to wear aspects. And I think after the pandemic, with such an abundance of activewear, sportswear like on the market, a lot of retailers struggled selling it and then people return to more occasion dressing. You know, there's always a trend with shopping for, I find big retailers. So yeah, Net A Porter was a great support very early on and just helped our audience understand the positioning of the brand, that it is this premium product and it can be styled like as a very transitional garment. So they are a great partner. I mean I remember when they placed their first order, I was like, oh no wait, I can't afford this production. Like can you just buy my stock on hand? I'd. I had produced enough units to go to market with thinking people would just like buy like very small orders. And net placed, I think it was like an 80k order on their first one and then their second order was like 100k. So what I needed, production wise, I had to take out a loan. I was like, wait, can you reduce the order? And they were like, no, this is what we need. So, you know, I hustled and got some loans and funded that collection and made it for them. And from then, you know, we've had where we've a strong network of wholesalers. But I wouldn't say we're like, we're definitely not flooded in the market. We are with Bergdorf in New York, Holt Renfrew in Canada. We stock with Essence, we stock with goop. We've been with Goop since the early days as well. Not regularly Goop kind of buy when they feel like they need our product in the mix. It's kind of slightly different to say department stores where they buy seasonally and a couple of stores in Europe, Louisa Vi Aroma in Italy and Hawaii. We've got quite a few boutiques in Hawaii now because of the swimwear. So we find the Hawaiian girl is so similar to say like our Californian girl and our Australian girl. So yeah, there's, there's a nice mix of stores growing. But again we're really selective and we, we don't want to kind of over saturate the market as well.

[A]

Yes, I seem to recall. And you tell me if it wasn't you who said this. I talked to people, but I know it was you. But no, I feel like there was a pain point with maybe multiple retailers or maybe just one where you had the vision that your pieces would be worn, you know, for day for street and that it was being consolidated to like the activewear landing page. And you're like, this isn't how, you know, nobody's able to find it and how people are wearing it is on the street. Like nobody can find our clothes. Basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

No, that happened. I mean, that's the trouble, I think with some larger online retailers is they will only tag you once. So they can tag you under sportswear or bras or bikers, but then they won't allow that same bra to show, say under like, like crop tops under fashion, just for example. And so for us there was just a lot of lost opportunities because unless a woman was coming in looking for a sports bra or even we had beautiful, like our sunny sweater is like a classic staple. And our Romeo track pants, our Motley track pants, where we make these, they're kind of like some of our best sellers because they cater for a woman of all ages and they're a staple. But you won't see our pants under pants. You would only see them under sportswear because they're only tagging it under sports because that's how they categorize your. Your brand. So, yeah, there was a lot of difficulty there in the early days because I felt like the brand could have sold better if it was shown on multiple pages. But I find less and less of that now. I think retailers have caught on and shifted their systems. But yeah, that was with Net A Porter at the start and the buyers are like, we get it, like, we understand, but it's like a technical thing that we can't tag you across multiple pages. Like, we need to pick a lane. So yeah, that was me probably many years ago. But we're not finding that so much now. And I think as our brand awareness grows now people will search our brand and be looking for us. I think when you're at that stage of just really being discovered, those kind of things are really important because they're not typing in your name. No one was typing in Nagnata. We were really relying on Net A Porter to help give us that exposure. So, yeah, little learning curves there along the way for sure.

[A]

Yes. When you're talking about taking out a loan. I know you were self funded last, last we spoke. Has fundraising been an option? Something that you're considering more and more, or have you made the leap yet?

[B]

So we're still self funded. So we are. Yeah. Nine years of self funded business.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

It is amazing. It's, you know, it's tough. Like we have a team of over 20 now. And yeah, we're self funded. I mean I'm not ruling it out of the question. I would like to get the business in a position one day where I can bring on strategic partners because I mean obviously I'm pregnant now and my sister who's my business partner has had two little babies and I am so hands on across all aspects. Like I will work as the head designer, as the creative director and then you know, normal brand directed duties. We do have business advisors so I'm supported in that sense. I have some amazing partners who I've given shares to like small percentages of shares so I'm able to have that business support which I think is how I've been able to hold it all to be honest because I have incredible advisors who can help in the aspects that is just beyond my capabilities now because the brand has grown so much. But yeah, in terms of funding it's still all, all self funded. So it forces you to be not excessive. Like every purchase order we're still like are we going to sell it? How much do we need? We have the problem where we keep selling out of stock because we don't want to over place at production because we don't have the capital. So you know, we could easily get a partner and then they pump all this money through and we produce a lot more. But then we are going to have a lot more excess potentially if it's it doesn't sell one season. And so yeah, I just haven't felt ready for that. But I would say I'm getting more warm to the idea of one day partnering just with a strategic partner that will still uphold the ideals of the brand. I think honestly that's the tough thing. When you partner with someone financially are they going to kind of push you in directions that isn't true to you? And we've worked so hard to keep the foundations of the brand and the ethos not always about, you know, profit first. And even when you look at our margins and you know, they'll probably come in and be like why are you, why are your cost of goods this much? Or why aren't you charging more retail? You know, I have wanted to keep it accessible and not price ourselves out of the market, for example. So yeah, I think it's, you've got to be ready for it. I've just had so many friends that have of sold because they're tired or they just feel like they can't do it themselves and, and it hasn't been the right partner. So I think in the next couple of years, for sure, I would like to partner with someone that can, like, also help us open all the stores globally. Like, I can't be everywhere anymore. Like, I definitely spend most of my year traveling, and it's been amazing for the last 10, 12 years. And I love, love that I'm able to be based in, whether it's Paris or America, different parts of Europe. My boyfriend's Italian, so now we're in Italy all the time. But to reach the full potential, I feel like we do need someone to, like, kind of help us. So. We will see.

[A]

We will see. Well, I was going to ask you about the year that was, and I hear a lot of, you know, folks just wanting to get through the year and start something fresh. And 2025 is a new year and it's kind of like, like looking at almost the light at the end of the tunnel. But I don't know that you, you're, you're considering it that way. How would you compare, like, the year that you had and what are your expectations for going into 2025?

[B]

Look, I think, to be honest, the market's so tough at the moment. We have been focused on, like, basically, as one of my advisors would say, just like stabilizing the ship, making sure that we are stable as a business this year. And I think, think we have been able to still do great things like the New York pop up and host two retreats and be really connecting with community in a grassroots way. And so we've had an incredible creative year. I think I've done a lot personally because I knew I was pregnant, so I was like, really wanting to get through a few big moments and before next year, for me, that I'll probably for the first six months, just take a little bit of a step back, whatever that means. I don't know yet. So. But I think the market we've been. Sales have been steady, but I wouldn't say that we've seen the growth that we've seen in the previous years. And I think that's really across the board. I mean, so many peers have sadly been closing their brands or selling or just going through such a hard time because of just, you know, the recession and spending habits and the market that you would know all of this better than myself with everyone that you speak to. So we haven't had any crazy kind of growth this year, but we are still opening the Sydney store, which is, you know, I think for us, like I said, retail does really well. So by opening the Sydney Store. We actually are predicting, you know, a big growth in our weekly sales and we'd like to open another store next year. So that's kind of our strategy for growing. It's just keeping it kind of close to home and manageable and where we know we're going to have guaranteed sales opportunities by more people coming through the door.

[A]

Yes. If somebody dropped you a couple of million dollars today, you'd ramp up production a bit. You would open that store. Anything investment in marketing, digital marketing or anything.

[B]

I'd probably buy land and just host retreats.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

But no, I think we would. We definitely want to be showing internationally. We've got some plans next year for showing international shows instead of just at sales market. So, you know, that's kind of a big expense for us, but something we really want to do. So I would probably be putting money towards that if someone gave me a million dollars. And, you know, always putting more through marketing campaigns as well. That there's lots of creatives that we would love to work with. I just, I love shooting. We have our creative producer that I work really closely with in house and we just love when we get to create films and campaigns and show the collection in movement. So, you know, that's always really expensive as well to do at the level we do. So, you know, growing marketing budgets there so we can, yeah, storytell more would be, you know, something great.

[A]

So. Good. Well, last question, because I promised to ask it at the very beginning. What's your approach to holiday and is Black Friday going to mean some promotions? Did you opt out? Have you opted out?

[B]

Historically, we've never done Black Friday. I think it's kind of gross.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, so when we launched, we had the mantra movements, not seasons. And that was really our pushback on seasonality. I think for the first couple of years, we only did two collections a year year. My first collection, I. I reproduced, like I said at the start, for Net a porter to buy into. Slowly, slowly we've built more collections, but we really try and have this free approach to seasonality where we are not producing just for the sake of showing buyers a collection if we don't think we can sell it if we can't afford the production. And so we did not do any kind of discounting for, I think, the first six or seven years of the brand. And that was because for me, I was just like, I don't want to devalue these products. That has taken me. You know, we develop all of our own fabrics, we buy the yarn, we Dye it, we knit it. Our production lines are, say, longer than someone who might just buy a fabric that's already made. So it's taking, you know, a year, year and a half to get product onto the market for us. And then the thought of having it on, like, full price for three months and then slashing it was just absurd. So we would work with wholesale partners and we would not really allow them to discount the brand. And so that's also why we built wholesale really slowly, because we had to find the right partners that would agree to these terms or maybe only after six months. They would discount, like, colors but keep blacks full price and just to kind of allow us to build the brand. Before, people were just waiting for the sale because with our cost price and our margins, it was like not even worth it if everything was just sold at like a sale price all the time. So that's why early on I was making those statements around Black Friday, you know, for smaller businesses that really, like, can't afford to be doing that, and for shoppers to kind of think about the businesses that they're supporting and the products that they're buying. Sure. These big brands, they're creating product to put on Black Friday, like, they're making that product because they make so much money that day. So they. A lot of brands produce for sale. It's a sales strategy. And so we are. We're a small brand. Like, you can't do that. And so that's why I'd be vocal just more to have, like, customers just be a bit more aware. I think they don't realize when you're not in the industry, you're not even thinking about things. You're like, oh, cool, a bargain, great. But people, like, except expecting that in fashion every three months at that top. And then you feel, I think as a customer, you feel bad. Like when I bought something full price, and then like two weeks later it's 50 off, you're like, oh, I don't feel great about, like investing in that purchase. So, you know, we also just were aware of our customers experience with nag early on. And now we, you know, now we do the occasional sale, for sure. Like, we're at a point now where, where, you know, at one point we did have excess stock. And so but that was from like seven years of never doing a sale. So. And then we do them and we have like, we did one in Sydney, little ones in Byron, and we have like lines around the block of girls, like, camping out from like 4am because they're so excited to get the pieces at a discount or they haven't been able to afford the brand at full price. And so. So it's like, definitely a younger customer often that's coming. That's like, that's her way to buy. Nag, nada. So we do sale now or discount it in a way that we hope doesn't devalue the brand. And we don't do it so much that customers are, like, waiting for it. It's when we have something that we need to move, then we'll consider a discount and make it like a special moment.

[A]

What a challenge. I hear that.

[B]

I can hear.

[A]

I can hear you thinking, like, we're trying to build a luxury brand. People.

[B]

I know. It's just a bit soul destroyed. I had to detach a little bit. I had to be forced to do a sale. I was like, no. Also because these pieces should be timeless. Right? Like, it's not this season. We're not a seasonal brand where one collection's very winter focused and one summer and one's resort. Like, they really are quite transitional and I think, think more and more. So a lot of brands work that way. Now when you're trying to design for a global market, the weather in Australia is completely different to the weather on your side of the world. Yet you're buying into the One collection. So, you know, you need to be transitional and it needs to have, you know, for us, it's. It's really developing classic pieces that a woman's going to be able to wear year round. So for sure.

[A]

Well, excited to see the brand grow. Excited to see what's next. Hopefully a store. Couple stores in New York. And that's the plan next year.

[B]

Laura.

[A]

Laura May. Thank you for being here. And I almost did take all the time. I know you have plans. Scoot out.

[B]

Yes. Well, we're actually. We're winning an award today. Tomorrow in Sydney. Oh, wow. I can probably say it because you won't air before the award, but we have just won the IMG Fashion Laureate Award for sustainable Brand of the Year in Australia, so. Oh, wow.

[A]

Congrats. That's amazing.

[B]

Thank you so much. It was a surprise. We didn't enter. They just called me the other day and said we'd won. So that's. Yeah, really nice. Is to be recognized for our work in. In this space with our peers here in Australia. So I'll be popping on a plane right now and heading down to get ready for that.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Sounds fabulous. Good for you. Good for you. Well, then you have an excuse to sign up. Thank you so, so much. We did it.

[B]

Thank you so much. It was so great to talk to you. And, yeah, thank you for all of your support over the years as well.

[A]

Of course. Such a fan. That's all for this episode. Our theme music is by Otis MacDonald. Be sure to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening to the Glossy Podcast. See you next week.