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The Glossy Podcast
Ranking Fashion Month's creative director debuts, from Bottega Veneta to Chanel
01:18:24
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- [00:05]
A
Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our international reporter, Zofia Zyglinska. Hello, Zofia. Thank you for joining.
- [00:15]
B
Thank you so much. So nice to be here.
- [00:18]
A
Yeah, nice to have you here. We have a little bit of a longer episode this week. We're going to go a little shorter on the news part. We're going to talk about skyrocketing gold prices and the effect that has on the industry, not just on the jewelry and watch industry. I feel like we can talk about how that will affect everybody. Then we're going to talk about Tod's, the Italian luxury brand which is under investigation for its labor practices. The latest of many, which we've talked about. A few of the other big luxury brands that have had similar investigations recently. So we'll talk about that. That will be all for the news segment, just those two. Because later in the episode we have a really in depth discussion between me, you, Zofia and our editor in chief, Jael Manoff to talk about the many, many debuts this past fashion month. There were tons of creative directors debuting their first collections for their new brands. We're going to talk about Demna at Gucci and Pierpaolo at Balenciaga and Louise Trotter at Bottega Veneta. And we have quite an in depth discussion on that. So we will keep the news segment short so we have time for that. But let's start with the news Tuesday of this week. Gold prices hit $4,000 an ounce, which is the first time in history they have ever been that high. The price is up more than 50% this year and it's the third straight year of double digit growth. I think last year was 27% or somewhere around there. This is what economists would say is not good. Maybe not not good, but it's like concerning. That's a huge spike. And I think there's kind of two ways we can look at this. The first is like specific to jewelry and watches and brands that literally use gold. But then also we can talk about just the general, what that means for the kind of like the state of the economy and like economic stability, because gold is often a good barometer of kind of stability in the market in general. But let's start with like jewelry spaces. Like if you're not in jewelry or not really paying much attention, you may have missed that these gold prices have been shooting up for several years now because I've written about watches. It's come up a lot and watch brands that use gold in their bracelets have been raising their prices significantly. Earlier this year Rolex raised their prices and I think their gold watches were up like 14% in price compared to their non gold watches. It was only much lower. I don't have the exact number, but only a few percentage points. There's an immediate impact that has on brands that use gold. There's been a lot of other jewelry companies this week like Pandora talking about how rising gold prices is going to significantly impact their business because they have to buy that gold and use it. It's definitely a high priority concern for people in the jewelry space. Zofia, what have you seen about it?
- [03:16]
B
Yeah, I think in general the kind of fine metal segment is it's definitely going up. I was literally just talking to some execs from Pandora last week, which is one of the brands that has been affected by not just gold prices but rising silver prices as well, which are up to $38.56 per ounce from 35 for. So again not just gold but also silver's going up and it is affecting people and kind of big brands in that space. Obviously Pandora has the benefit I guess of going after the recycled gold market and recycled silver I'm assuming too, but obviously I don't know if that is affected by baseline gold prices as well because I would assume that smelting is smelting. So you're probably affected both ways. But yeah, I think the gold price kind of indicator and what you referred to earlier is the other kind of interesting nugget to get into as well.
- [04:19]
A
Nugget, good.
- [04:21]
B
You heard that one.
- [04:23]
A
Yeah, I think there's on the economic side, gold is like an important resource economically and runaway gold prices I think are a little bit of a concerning sign for the global economy. I think tariffs are having a big impact here, but not necessarily because gold is being tariffed directly. And actually I think the Trump administration has been pretty clear about not wanting to put lot of tariffs on gold. Switzerland recently started to export a lot of gold to the US and I think that was not subject to that 39% tariff that Switzerland was hit with, which does affect. I mean it would affect products like a watch with gold in it, but it doesn't affect like raw gold. But tariffs do kind of like add as we've seen a lot of uncertainty and instability to the market, a lot of confusion and then when that happens people are buying more gold. There's really good analysis from Goldman Sachs about the two types of gold buyers right now, which is. I think they call them consistent buyers. People or institutions like central banks that have been buying gold for years and are continuing to do so, and then opportunistic buyers who are just buying gold because they see that the price is right or something like that. So I think even though it's not directly because of tariffs, it is part of this larger. Just like the market is getting very unpredictable, more so than usual. I think there was a CNBC story where they quoted a jewelry brand who was like, it's not usual to see this number of unexpected, destabilizing big changes in the market all the time. Normally this would be every couple years. Maybe there's a big change, but now it's like there's constantly big things shaking up the market. Even if you are not dealing in gold directly, I do think it's important to keep an eye on how gold prices are changing because it's kind of a good indicator of just the overall stability of the market, which, as many people have told us, is not very stable.
- [06:21]
B
Yeah. And gold hasn't rallied this kind of dramatically since 1979, which was the last time that we had very, very heavy inflation and geopolitical instability as well. So I think that there's a big indicator in terms of all those people talking about recessions, which has been kind of the talk of the town for quite a while now, and a general kind of loss of confidence in traditional assets as well. So stocks, bonds, or more importantly, the US dollar and how related economic policies from the presidential seat are affecting the wider market. And I think it's quite interesting as well that despite the fact that the AI sector has been affecting stocks in a good way over the last six or so, and there's been relatively low unemployment, there's a bit of an inequality between how people are thinking about the different risks that could be affecting the world and then the actual kind of realities of the employment aspect as well as rising kind of stocks which are doing well. So, yeah, maybe something to be worried about. I feel like gold is always the first leading indicator of a recession, but. But we'll see. Maybe it's just panic buying and there's.
- [07:46]
A
A whole other element which maybe we'll talk about on a future episode of. It's so funny that everyone in the AI world is like, oh, yeah, it's definitely a bubble. It feels like there's so much money and investment being poured into AI, hoping that it will just like any lingering problems in the market will sort of just get worked out by productivity increases from that. And I just don't think that's going to happen. But that be a discussion for a future episode. Let's talk about our second topic, which is Tod's, the Italian luxury brand, latest luxury brand to be investigated for its labor practices. This week, Italian authorities are investigating the working conditions at some of Todd's subcontractors, which are within Italy, very similar to what we've talked about recently with Loro Piano was one. Valentino and Dior all were investigated for similar labor practices within Italy and not just distant factories in other countries. Todd's has been placed under judicial administration while the investigation is happening. I think same thing happened with Valentino and Dior. Yeah, I feel like this has happened several times recently. Zofia, you wrote about a few of these labor probes. What do you think of Todd's facing a similar investigation?
- [09:01]
B
Yeah, I think again, it kind of tests the accountability for the made in Italy label, which I think a lot of luxury brands have been leaning heavily on. It's something that has still kind of defined the luxury sector, whether that's French brands or Italian brands. Most luxury brands, if they do say that they're made in Italy, it kind of assumes quality and it just exposes the kind of outsourcing that is happening in reality. The subcontracting, which, yes, we've already kind of spoken about and written about either the Loro Piano investigation or others. And I think that even legacy brands like Tod's and are immune to these kind of crackdowns. I think there's obviously been kind of like a chain that's been started by the first investigations. Now I would assume that most luxury brands are going to be investigated as a result. Just considering, I guess, the sector's kind of depth of subcontracting that's shown up over the last, you know, six months to a year or so. And I think it might hopefully raise the bar for supply chain due diligence as a result. Because obviously if you fail one of these investigations, then you're put under review, you're having to pay fines. You can't be kind of turning a blind eye to what's happening within your own supply chain, especially if you own it, I think, which is a bigger part of it as well, even in part. And I think it shifts like the responsibility from just being a kind of CSR issue to being a kind of core legal risks. If you're being put under review, that usually hampers your operations even slightly. And that's not what luxury want Right now, which is still in a downturned market.
- [10:57]
A
Yeah, you raise a bunch of good points. I think the chain of responsibility is interesting. Was reading a little bit about the way this probe into Todd's practices has been playing out. And the investigation itself has faced a couple issues in the Italian court system, one of which was over the fact that some of these subcontractors who the investigation found had poor working conditions were actually making uniforms for employees to wear rather than making products to be sold, which is still like, something to note, but I think meant that the type of charge that was being brought is, like, not appropriate and they had to, like, redo it. And then the other thing is, I think at their other subcontractor that was also found to have, like, poor working conditions was the. How responsible is Todd's Exactly. For their subcontractor subcontractors practices? Which I think is. Is always interesting in these scenarios, because I think the brands like to take credit for whoever they have making their stuff when it's appropriate. And then when there's an issue, they're like, oh, well, we weren't involved. That's not us. That's somebody else's responsibility. So it's always just a little interesting to see the chain of responsibility and what is taken credit for at different times.
- [12:23]
B
Yeah. And I think the one other thing is that Italy's industrial minister, Adolfo Erso, is already pushing for a new certification system for luxury brands as a result, allowing brands to basically get kind of a legal compliance seal for their supply chains, which is, I guess, kind of similar to what is happening with digital product passports in the EU and other things. But it could evolve into a specific Italian mandatory standard, which could be quite interesting in terms of how that side of things ends up being more regulated in the future, especially as these supply chains are notoriously difficult to unravel, as that outsourcing has been happening for decades so far.
- [13:16]
A
Cool. Well, I think that's all the time we probably have for this week's news segment. Like I said, I wanted to keep it short so we could get to our discussion of. And I don't know if I said this, but we are also going to be grading all of these creative director debuts. Maybe we will stop there, take a short break, and when we come back, you, me and Jill will discuss some of the big debuts from this season's Fashion Month. Welcome to my two guests, our international reporter, Zofia Zvaglinska, and our editor in chief, Jill Manoff. Thank you guys for being here.
- [13:57]
C
Excited to chat.
- [13:59]
A
I'm excited to talk with you. Fashion Month is over. And something we talked about a lot leading up to it is that this was the Fashion Month of so many debuts. I think there were around 15 big debut shows from new creative directors at some of the big brands. We thought it would be fun to talk about a handful of the most interesting, most exciting debuts from Fashion Month, and we're going to go through and score them on very rigorous scientific criteria, which I will talk about in a second. And then we're going to tally them all up and we're going to give you a very scientific answer to the question of which one was the best. But, yeah, there were a bunch of really interesting ones. The ones we're going to talk about today. Demna for Gucci, and this is the order. We'll go through them as well. Luis Trotter for Bottega Veneta, Jonathan Anderson at Dior, Jack McCullough and Lazaro Hernandez at Loewe. Pierpaolo Piccioli at Balenciaga, and Matthew Blasey at Chanel. Interesting fun fact, which I just realized when we were putting this together, like right before the recording started, is three of these designers are replacing the other three. Piccioli is replacing Demna at Balenciaga, McCalla and Hernandez are replacing Jonathan Anderson at Dior, and Luis Trotter is replacing Mathieu Boissi at Bottega Veneta. So a lot of these designers are going just in musical chairs, I think you called it, Jill. From one designer or from one brand to another. So here's what we're going to score them on and how we're going to score them. We're going to start with clothes. The actual clothes themselves. Everything else left out, just the clothes. One being like the most boring thing you've ever seen, hideous. And five being like, incredible just on. And this one will probably be the most subjective. We'll score them on brand consistency. How well did the collection fit into the brand's existing aesthetic? A5 being it's very seamless, fits in exactly with the brand and its history and what was coming before. One being like a total departure. Looks nothing like what they were doing before. We'll score them on the show. Everything that's not the clothes here, we'll do it as a one. Is just like, here's the clothes. We were joking about the Yeezy Gap show where they just put the clothes out in a pile on the floor. That would be like a one. Like, nothing crazy interesting about it at all so, I mean, a five being like an incredible spectacle. I think we said, like, it's. You almost forget it's even a fashion show. Like, they're doing trapeze artists flying through the sky, things like that. We will talk about the reception to the show. One being basically went by without even, like a ripple in the water. Nobody even noticed. Five being like, everyone and like, your grandma's talking about it. And then the last one, we'll will score them on the overall business impact. This is a little bit hard to say because they're new, but this is going to be also sort of based on everything else and our feel and our knowledge of what's going on with the brand. And we'll try to just say, you know, one is going to be like, this is a disaster. They shouldn't have hired this person. Five would be like, I think they're going to totally revivify this brand. Okay, that's our rubric. We have a lot of designers to go through, so I will not delay any farther. But is there anything else you guys wanted to add before we start?
- [17:10]
C
I mean, maybe just that there are other designers that made their debut this season, so we just kind of picked, I don't know, those that were top of mind maybe saw the most buzz. I mean, somebody who's an honorable mention, I think, is Dario Vitali at Versace. But we only have so much time. It's all good.
- [17:29]
A
Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that. There were a bunch of other debuts that were interesting. We did talk a little bit about Vitali at Versace last year week, I think, and that was a good show. But, yeah, there are others we could talk about. Julian Klausner at Drives Van Noten is another one. There's a bunch. But, yeah, we're going to focus on these ones in the interest of time. Let's start with Demna for Gucci. I feel like this one was very highly anticipated. He had such a big impact on Balenciaga over the years. So Demna at Gucci for the clothes, I'm putting a five. I know I'm coming out of the gate, like, hot with a five, but I know. I think there was, like, a focus on Gucci. Ness was like, what they talked about. I thought the clothes were very elegant with, like, a little bit edgy, like 80% elegant, 20% edgy. And I thought that was the perfect balance for Gucci and definitely a little different than what he's done at Balenciaga. I thought so. That's me. Zofia what about you?
- [18:29]
B
Yeah, so I'm giving that one a three. Just because I think that a lot of the pieces, like, granted, yes, they are very Gucci fied. I think just some of. Because of the fact that it came out as kind of like this lookbook photo kind of series rather than natural catwalk show. I think that a lot of the things, you don't know how they move. Some of the looks were literally just like swimwear pieces, I think, which, again, didn't really translate well as, like, clothing. But there's some great. Yeah, exactly. But there was some great coats. So, I mean, that's the kind of highlight for me.
- [19:02]
C
Yeah, I mean, if I'm able to give a 0.5 something. 0.5. Otherwise, I'm new. I was at 3.5, but I can give a 3 if we're, you know, being strict here. I like.
- [19:14]
A
I have a 0.5 in mind.
- [19:16]
C
Okay. I like 3.5. I was a little bit torn, but, yeah, we're going to talk brand consistency and such, but it was kind of a way to do it, like, reference old Gucci in a variety of ways and in a variety of previous designers by making these characters or putting out the collection via these characters as a lookbook, like the it girl and the drama queen. And it made for a lot of different looks. But, like, is that a good thing? I don't know that it's necessarily wearable. We're going to talk about all these things. It was fun. It felt like Demna's take on Gucci, but, yeah, it was kind of middle ground for me.
- [19:55]
A
Yeah. For consistency. This is why I allow you to have a 3.5, because I also have a 3.5 here for consistency. It's interesting. I feel like Gucci under this came up with a lot of my scores on consistency. It's like, is it consistent with, like, recent history of the brand or consistent with the brand overall? And I think, like, the Michele era of Gucci, which is like the most recent, like, really notable vibe of Gucci, had a lot of irreverence, and it wasn't just, like, you know, super uptight, like, buttoned up kind of look. So in that sense, I thought what he did was pretty consistent, but wasn't as much of a departure as you might expect from somebody like Denma, where, like, his Balenciaga time, I think, was a big shift, and this was maybe less so. So I give it 3.5.
- [20:41]
B
Yeah, for me, I think it got a 4 just because I agree with you. It's kind of the overall brand vibe codes. That's the bit that matters. And obviously, Gucci has had a lot of different creative directors, which I think has meant that its spread is quite wide. But it's got some nods to those 90s House signatures. There's more kind of minimal takes on Gucci, I think, compared to Alessandro, but still some great pieces. And, you know, a lot of, again, those coats, I think, are going to be quite iconic. And again, the bags, I think, were also a good homage to past editions of Gucci. And therefore. Yeah, four for me.
- [21:21]
C
Yeah, I also said four, Zofia. We're kind of consistent here. I felt like a lot of the pieces, like, it kind of speaks to how today's shopper shops, they kind of referenced.
- [21:33]
B
Yeah.
- [21:34]
C
Just like you were saying, past decades, past designers, and that you could probably go and get the look for much less via resale. And I was. I've talked about this three times on this podcast, but my recent Gucci shoe purchase, like, it looked like the shoes worn by this, the first lookbook woman. And I was so excited about that. Like, I can wear this and look current, so it kind of speaks to the power of resale. I felt like it was definitely the double GS, all the things. It felt very Gucci.
- [22:04]
A
Yeah, I agree. Okay. The show itself, I don't have much to say. I have, like, I put a three, but now I'm thinking about maybe a two. Like, there was the movie thing, the tiger, like a short film that they screened, which is cool, you know, But I think the show itself, there wasn't as much of a. I don't know, maybe I missed something, but I feel like it wasn't that crazy.
- [22:27]
B
Yeah, maybe, Danny, you might want to just look it up, because Gucci didn't actually come out with a show this time around. So it was just that visual release, like those frames that you have.
- [22:38]
A
That's why it seemed boring to me, because it didn't even happen.
- [22:40]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [22:42]
A
All right, well, now I'm knocking them down to a two, then.
- [22:46]
B
Okay, cool. So for my one for spectacle, I'm actually going to give them a five, because I think that the film release was queerly interesting. It's like the first time I've seen a film film, I guess, like, try and bridge those kind of cultural gaps for a brand where it's not so much about selling the product, but it's actually just about putting out something new. I think a lot of the times with fashion films, you end up focusing on, like, one Release or like, one campaign. This is just to kind of announce a refresh of the brand. And I think it was done in quite a fun way. You know, they. They kind of distributed it well. Like, they had all of these little, like, cinema launches. And it reminded me a little bit of the Miu Miu film partnerships that they've had, which are kind of more again, about culture than it is just about kind of brand and product. So I thought it was fun. Obviously, the visuals or the framing were interesting as well, and stereotyping makes for very good content. On socials, I think the most that I saw on socials, and this kind of relates to the next point, but it was all about which character do you relate to. So, yeah, for the spectacle side of things, you know, considering the unconventional spectacle, I think it was quite good.
- [23:59]
C
Yeah, I had a 3.5. I'm very between. Between ratings here, but, yeah, just the. The showing of the film, like, it did read like a red carpet. There were some models there, and that was okay, but. And the film itself, once you're in. In there and watching it, like, how fabulous. And Demi Moore and Edward Norton and Ed Harris, and it's fantastic. But, like, did anyone see the film, like, beyond the industry, folks? That's, like, the question mark. And then I also question the reliance on celebrity, which is very, you know, true to Demna, but, like, how powerful is that, this day and age? It's powerful, but it feels a little bit like, could it a little played out like Kendall Jenner in the film. Like Jenner. Jenner. Anyway, so I give it a 3.5. The film was great and a powerful tool. I don't know that it saw the traction in terms of being viewed by as many folks as it. As it could have been, but, yeah, if you watch it, it's great.
- [25:02]
A
Yeah, I'm with you, Jill. And I think these next two rubrics or these next two categories for them kind of are a little bit. They both have the same thing of, like, Gucci has a big. Like, there's been a lot of news recently about Gucci's sales being down, and, like, they're a big part of kering, and they, like, really are relying on Demna to, like, turn things around for them. So in terms of, like, the reception, I think you're right. The actual film, how many people really saw it? But I feel like I saw good reaction to the clothes themselves, and people were excited about the direction. So I was kind of not sure what to put on this one. I put a Four. Because I feel like everything I saw in terms of like what people were saying about Demna's era was good. Everyone's excited, so I'm going to give it a four.
- [25:48]
B
Yeah, that same for me. I'm agreeing with you. The four for reception. I think there was a lot of good conversations on TikTok and Instagram. Everyone's always a little bit wary, I think with Demna because of how maybe not stale, but how repetitive some of the Balenciaga takes were. But I think the way that he's approached Gucci and also I guess how sensible he is considering the performance of the brand and you know, I guess the transition time for. For the brand as well, because let's be honest, like Demna's proper show isn't actually happening until February. So I think that for that, that makes for. For a good kind of four for reception.
- [26:27]
C
It's unanimous. I also had four. It felt like it was just a teaser of what's to come and it got people really excited. So yeah, four it is.
- [26:36]
A
Cool. And I'm also going to give a four for the business impact. Like I said, a lot of these are going to be a little bit like feel based because they're so recent and it's not. But actually this one, there is a data point I found Placer AI, which tracks like store foot traffic. Said there was a 53% foot traffic increase to Gucci stores in the US in the four days after the premiere. So like an increasing each day. So there's like, I mean, it's a very early loose indicator. The other thing though is like I said, there's more of an uphill here because like Gucci sales have been not so great and they were really trying. He has more, I think higher expectations as well. But yeah, I'm going to say four for that one as well.
- [27:19]
B
Yeah, I think for mine it's a five. But that's just because of the strategy that they've approached it with, considering it's almost like an in between show and an in between product launch as well. So the actual pieces from the collection were part of a see now, buy now capsule. So a lot of them were available to buy immediately, which I think is a good way to get customers interested in the new face of Gucci. And that was engineered for sell through and for kind of momentum before the proper show in February. Again. So I think that the business strategy was there. And again, it seems like a sensible move for a brand that has definitely had some harder times in the last couple of quarters.
- [28:02]
C
Yeah, I said four again. I feel like it's almost like a tentative score, because I want to see the rest of this stuff, and, I don't know, like, a lot of the impactful pieces that I. That come to mind, like the. The blue coat with the fur collar and all of the dramatic outerwear. Yes. Like, it's definitely a brand that needs that aspirational customer. And, you know, I. The bags, the shoes, they weren't that memorable to me, other than the double G kind of matching jacket trench with the boots. Oh, that was great for. For. For me.
- [28:40]
A
Okay, so like I said, we're. We're gonna. At the end of the episode, we'll tally all these up and compare them, but for now, we can just move on to Louise Trotter at Bottega Veneta. I'm gonna just go right in with the clothes. I'm gonna say four. I really liked a lot of them, particularly that big gray trench coat that was like a leather coat over, like, a loose pinstripe y kind of suit. I just thought was very cool. Almost like a zoot suit. Yeah, I'm just going to say four.
- [29:07]
B
Yeah, same four. For me, there was a lot of kind of tactility and texture, which I think for Bottega has become a bit of a signature within Tracato. That's kind of moved on to some of those trench coats now. So that signature kind of weaving that Bottega is known for as well as. I'm not 100% sure if this is recycled fiberglass, because I really hope it's not, in a way, because the longevity of that is terrible from a society sustainability perspective. But it looked great on the Runway. It moved very, very well. And there was a lot of weaving, fringe, suedes, and obviously the leather kind of technical abilities that were showing up were really, really cool.
- [29:50]
C
That's interesting how you described it. I think you may be right. I have soft fur. Question mark. That was definitely an element of the show that a lot of critics and just observers pointed out that they loved, and it did. When you watch it, when you watch the video and how it moves, it was definitely. Those pieces were standout, but I gave it a four. I also fan of the outerwear, the asymmetrical pieces. Like, there are pieces in there that were great. They looked beautiful, and also were distinct. Like, if somebody wore that, you would know. This is Louise Trotter. I mean, we're going to talk about the reception, but I agree. People were commenting like, this is women designing for women Celebrating that it felt like it. It resonated with me right off the bat.
- [30:40]
A
Yeah, I agree with you. For consistency, I think this is maybe one of the most consistent shows. I think you're right that, like, it does. She does have a recognizable style, but it's not so much that it's like indistinguishable, but that it's like very seamless, I think from the recent designers like Daniel Lee and Mathieu Boissi and Daniel Lee's connection to Phoebe Filo, which is another, like, you know, noted woman designer who a lot of people loved. How, you know, having a designer who's a woman, a woman, which is very rare, I felt like it fit very naturally into that legacy, you know, and she spent a lot of time. I read that Louise Trotter spent a lot of time looking at archival pieces from 1966 and 67, which is also, I believe, the year Bottega Veneta was founded. And every designer that we're going to talk about said that they went through the archives, but I felt like this one felt the most like that actually happened.
- [31:34]
B
Yeah, definitely. And I'm really interested in how a lot of the houses that we're talking about here almost seem to have a defined craft technique now. And Louise obviously pushed into that further. And it's great that she's the only female creative director on our list. So worth a highlight just in terms of how she approached that brand consistency. So it felt kind of subtle and feminine, but at the same time still very much Bottega. Yeah.
- [32:02]
A
Also wait, real quick, Jo. I'm sorry, I don't think I said my number, but five.
- [32:07]
C
Nice for consistency.
- [32:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, five for me for consistency too.
- [32:12]
C
Five for me for consistency as well. She brought back a logo also from 1966. You know, there's some conversation out there whether it was too consistent and how she really adheres to the brands that she represents or works for. Like, same with Carvin. Like, is this her or is this like the brand? She's kind of a chameleon. But, like, is that good or bad? Like, are we gonna see. See anything? I don't know, super original or just kind of recycling old ideas?
- [32:44]
A
Yeah. And on that note, I feel bad for this one, but for the show itself, I'm gonna say two, I feel bad, like giving a low score because it's not like everyone has to do something crazy. But it is like it was just a show in terms of the actual format. It was star studded. Julianne Moore and other people were there, but the actual way it was presented was just clothes, which is not really a bad thing. So that's why I feel bad saying it too. But for our rubric, I'm gonna say two.
- [33:13]
B
Yeah. I'm gonna be slightly nicer and say a three. But the show being held in a former zinc factory in Milan, it didn't feel like it had that much connection to the brand itself. And obviously the venue has become such a big part of that. I think it's definitely worth making a slightly bigger statement with that, especially compared to some of the other brands that we've got on this list too.
- [33:35]
C
I gave it a one. It was just clothes. I mean, nothing was memorable to me about the show. The clothes themselves were memorable.
- [33:44]
A
Yeah. For the reception, I. I think 3.5, but maybe. I'll. Let me think about that for a second. But there were a lot of good critical reviews. Laura Ingham of Vogue said it was the strongest debut of Milan Fashion Week. But I feel like I didn't see that much buzz kind of naturally out there. I was going and looking for reviews, so I was seeing good reviews, but I don't know how much I heard people really just chatting about it. Maybe you guys saw something that I didn't. That's why I kind of just go right down the middle. 3.5. Because good reception critically, but maybe not as much buzz about it.
- [34:24]
B
Yeah. So I kind of dipped into some of the buyers takes that we've been having in the luxury briefing over the last couple of weeks. And Simon Longland, who's the director of buying for fashion at Harrods, did say that Bottega delivered many instant Wishlist pieces, particularly the intricate Carta coats and jacket that will no doubt build immediate waiting lists. So I think, again, it's. It does kind of call to that quiet power. And I guess the female VIP clients who will be looking for something a little bit maybe more understated. Although looking at some of these collections, there was a lot of muted colors and blacks, which always ends up being very popular with buyers and with clients as well. So, yeah, it seems like Bottega is already on a couple of those Buy a Wishlist.
- [35:13]
C
I gave it a three.
- [35:14]
B
Oh, wait, I didn't give a store. Sorry. Four. And my score is a four.
- [35:19]
C
Ding. I gave it a 3.5. I'm kind of grading on a curve because I'm saving my 5 for later. But, yeah, just again, women designing for women. Some of the pieces felt heavy. Some of it didn't feel the newest, but I liked them. Medium ground.
- [35:36]
A
Yeah. Business Impact. I think that. I mean, again, hard to say. I'm going to say four, because I feel like she. Like I said, I think she fits in so naturally with the brand. I think maybe some real Bottega Veneta Die Hards were maybe worried there was going to be some big shift. Not when she was announced, but like when they were looking for a new creative director. I think there's always a little anxiety, like, is the Bottega I love going to change? And I don't think it is, which I think is good for the brand. Some brands should change. And I think this one, they were already doing so well. I don't think they needed to rock the boat. And as we said many times, I think a lot of people praised or were happy about having a woman designing for this brand because they're already so kind of mature and elegant. And I just think it all fits. So I'm going to go high, maybe even 4.5 for business impact.
- [36:28]
B
Yeah, I think I'm definitely there with a 4.5 on this one as well. Again, the buyers seemed really happy with this. And just based on the financials, Bottega does want. Want that consistency and his clients want that consistency as well. So, yeah, I think that's a good score. 4.5.
- [36:46]
C
Yeah, I gave it a four. Same reason. Consistent. She did what she needed to do. People remained excited. It was in a good place when she came in.
- [36:57]
A
Cool. Let's do Dior. Jonathan Anderson at Dior, which is his first womenswear collection for the show, which I was reading, he's going to have to design a lot of collections in. I think it's like 10 collections a year or something that they do men's, women's accessories, couture, like it's. It's hard job. But for the clothes themselves, everything else aside, I would say four. I just like the style a little bit gothic. I like those big wavy hats. I don't know, I thought it was cool. You know what I'm talking. I don't even know what to call them.
- [37:27]
C
Yeah, I wonder if they're selling them or if they were just for styling purposes.
- [37:31]
A
It kind of looked like a tricorn hat, you know, from like the 18th century or something. But I don't know, I thought it was cool.
- [37:38]
B
Yeah, no, definitely. It's a four from me as well. I think that it kind of called on a lot of the good parts of Dior, the bits that were a little bit less boring, a little bit more interesting. Big Focus on kind of heritage and silhouette. Just kind of looking at the collection as well. It feels like there was a lot of draping, bigger kind of capes or jackets, things that kind of moved really well, and I really like that. So, yeah, I think it was a four for me.
- [38:09]
C
I give it a 3.5. I liked it. I preferred, actually, the menswear collection that he came out with first with the high collars and the. I don't feel like there was more tailoring, and for this one, there were select pieces I liked. But it almost felt. I don't know, it felt like it was like the Taylor Swift album. Like, it grew on me the more I looked at it. But then, like, the individual, I don't know, together, I was just. It felt like a hodgepodge. There was so much variety. And I know he was pointing to different references of the brand's past, but when I first saw it, I was like, I don't know. But, yeah, now I'm a fan and I can call out pieces that I love. So, I don't know. 3.5.
- [38:54]
A
Yeah. For consistency. I was not really sure what to do about this one. I kind of went back and forth a little bit, and I kind of. I ended up on a three, which is sort of the coward's way out, because I just couldn't decide. I was looking at older collections, and some stuff looked very seamless, and others, I was like, this looks like a Loewe dress or something. So, yeah, I just gave it a three because I couldn't really decide.
- [39:17]
B
Yeah, so it's a four from me. I think that there's a lot of reinvention happening here, so it might not look exactly the same as stuff that has come before. I think with something like Dior, most of the designers previously didn't really mess around with the housecoats too much. Didn't really try to reinvent the wheel. And I think that there's been couple of pieces, especially, like, the bar jacket, which Anderson has shifted a little bit this time around. So that's kind of a big feature. As well as the bows on the dresses as well, I think were a different take on Dior, but still very much signature. I think that you can't fault Anderson when it comes to kind of referencing house codes. It's just. Yes, it was definitely a reinvention rather than just a replication.
- [40:06]
C
Yeah, I'm with you, Sophia. I gave it a four references throughout. I also called out the jackets. There were different kind of silhouettes. Things were more Voluminous than in seasons past. Things were shrunken like the jackets, but definitely the bow references anyway. Very consistent. Felt younger and fresher, yet consistent.
- [40:29]
A
Yeah, for the show. This is my personal taste, but I'm giving it a five because I really like the aesthetics of it. They had an inverted pyramid that was hanging above the stage. They screened a short film made by Adam Curtis, a British documentarian who I like. And it was intercut with all this horror film imagery. And I love horror movies. And they had this big sign that was like, do you dare enter the House of Dior? It was all just like. I was like, for me, it's my take, it's my taste. So I liked it for that reason. I do think at some point in the future, there's something interesting to be written about the overlap between high fashion and horror imagery, because I feel like it does pop up in a lot of different places, and I think it fits really well together. So I thought that was cool. So five for me. Interesting. Yeah.
- [41:17]
B
And it's October now, so you could say it's relatively Halloween themed. It's definitely getting a four from me as well. I really like the inventory pyramid. It kind of reminds me of the glass pyramid in the Louvre. That's something that I think, again, honors the house codes with it being a Parisian brand. And I love the film as well. I think it was such a great kind of moment of Anderson's personality versus the actual Runway, which I think was a little bit more muted. You had all of those greys and very kind of classic vibes. So, yeah, I think it was a good contrast. I liked it. Four for me.
- [41:51]
C
I agree. And it was all about that intro film. And it was longer. It was a good five, six minutes. I was watching it and I was like. I mean, it's kind of nice, especially for the attendees, when you're running to show. To show, to not just sit down, watch a lineup of models, go to the next one. Not a lineup of models. To have some entertainment value. That's kind of separate. You could see the people in the audience kind of leaning back and smiling and enjoying it. But, yeah, it definitely called. Called out what he's doing with the brand in terms of, like, the references of the past. I don't know. The horror of it all. Anyway, put your own story around what he's doing here, but he's definitely. It's not a copy and paste.
- [42:32]
A
For reception. I mean, I think a five. I feel like every. Every review I saw was, like, glowing. And I saw lots of like it was just coming up naturally in my excursions in the Internet, like without me having to go after it. Like people were talking about it. I saw anyway, so I felt like it was very buzzy. It helps that he had such a huge time at Loewe and is a very hot designer, just in general. And also Dior is a huge brand. So it was a lot working toward it, but I felt like I saw a lot of excitement about it.
- [43:04]
B
Yeah. So I think for external reactions rather than my internal ones, it's probably a three. Just because I think the initial reaction to the collection, I think was very confused, especially because Dior has become so signature. I think that a lot of people were surprised by way that he took it, especially considering, I guess, the strength of the menswear show and kind of where that went. You know, some people had issues with the styling, with the hats, with some of the lace pieces and kind of the way everything worked together. So, yeah, I would say it's a three. Personally. I'm with you, Jill. It's kind of like it grows on me. Like, I would say it's more of a 4 or 4.5 now for myself.
- [43:45]
C
Yes. I give it a 3.5. I felt like that he got a standing ovation and he was crying and it was very emotional. So the people on site thought it was fantastic. Everybody that was kind of an outsider called out. It could have been more focused. It felt a little unfocused again, considering the multiple references, trying to be jam packed into this one collection. And it seemed like there was something for everyone. I think one of the critics called out, but is that a good thing? I don't know. Maybe not. So, yeah, mixed reviews.
- [44:23]
A
Yeah. And on that note of something for everybody, for business impact again, it's also like, what is the state of the business that they're coming into? Does it need a huge rejuvenation or anything? And I don't think Dior is quite in that spot. I kind of was not sure how to put this, but maybe a four again. Jonathan Anderson had a meteoric rise that Loewe made that brand household name and had a huge business impact at his previous business. So, like, I want to give a higher score here just because I feel like he has that potential. But also Dior does not need to be made a household name. You know, like everybody knows Dior already. So I'm going to say four just because, like, I think he will make any brand that he designs at is like going to, I think, benefit from it. But I held off from doing five because I don't think he's going to like, like, turn Dior around or anything like that.
- [45:19]
B
Yeah, I'm agreeing with you there. I think a four is a good kind of marker. Dior doesn't need, like, complete reinvention, obviously. The ready to wear is definitely more interesting and exciting, I think, than past seasons. And with business impact, it always goes back to accessories. So, you know, the shoes and the bags, I think there's some interesting reissues, some open bags as well. So I think that there's some new silhouettes in there that clients will be looking at. I wouldn't say that any of the bags necessarily were kind of revolutionary. They all seemed like reissues of past pieces or maybe slight updates. I think the shoes were slightly more exciting. I actually think quite a few of the pieces reminded me of some of the kind of American designers and how they're approaching footwear just because it's all kind of a little bit weird. There's holes in shoes. The, like, the flats have little, like, bows on them. I think that that's where his creativity shone, and I'm interested to see if those pieces will end up selling quite a bit. Yeah.
- [46:24]
C
And with you guys, I gave it a four more so because of the accessories and, yeah, the bags, people were comparing them to, like, a Lady Dior bag. They looked. Yeah. Reissued and. But cute. I think it was. I deserve Couture, who called out these pumps that have a C on one on one toe and a D on the other. I'm a logo girl. I want those pumps. So I feel like people probably are paying attention to the accessories, many covetable options. And I think, yes, Jonathan has fans of his own that are following him around from brand to brand. I think it'll do well.
- [47:01]
A
Yeah. And speaking of Jonathan Anderson, we'll talk about Jack McCollum, Lazaro Hernandez @ Loewe, who replaced Jonathan Anderson. I feel like my clothes section and my consistency section are a little mixed up, but the clothes, I'm gonna say I was thinking 3.5, but I might bump it up to 4. I really like the bright colors, which were kind of a departure, but that was like, a big theme of this collection was sort of beachy, Mediterranean, summery vibe. It was one of the only spring collections that looked like spring. We'll get to Piccioli at Balenciaga, who also was very colorful, but I don't know. I liked the bright colors and the kind of sunny, beachy vibe of the collection.
- [47:43]
B
Yeah, that same for Me, I think it's a four. You know, it's the product themselves look very good. I think maybe some of the towel dresses I'm probably a little bit less keen on. But the jackets in particular and those ones that were done in that kind of sculpted leather I thought were very good. And also everything seemed like it was quite simple styling, so nothing was over complicated. The pieces kind of stood out on their own. There was some great, like kind of folded knitwear, tops that looked very kind of sculptural, very Loewe, and a good kind of continuation of what came before. So, yeah, four for me, I gave.
- [48:20]
C
It a 3.5 just because I was so skeptical if it. Like, are there people. People disliking it because they're showing color and nobody else is showing color? I was like, why do I like it? I don't know. Some of the tops kind of layered pieces were. Looked really wearable, something that I would wear and want. So anyway, semi mid ground. But I thought it was good.
- [48:43]
A
Yeah, for consistency. This is another one where I was like a little bit on the fence because on the one hand it was. It's different than Jonathan Anderson's take on Loewe. But they also talked about particularly I saw Lazaro Hernandez, who is Cuban American, said one of the things he wanted to do was like, remind people that it's a Spanish brand and bring in some of the warmth of the climate of Spain. It's a warm, seaside country. And that I think definitely worked. And it was kind of consistent with that. But it was different than Jonathan Anderson's take, which is the one most people know because he was there for over a decade and it got to be huge under him. So I'm gonna say maybe just a three because it's right in the middle.
- [49:28]
B
Yeah, I think it's like a three for me as well, just because I think the codes were respected. Like Loewe also has changed quite a bit from where it started to kind of where it is now. But the pieces were really good. I think that there's. Some of the signatures are kind of respected again. Those bright colors have become kind of signatures, especially around the accessories. I do wonder if those kind of newer accessories are going to be quite as. As impactful as the puzzle bag and some of the other pieces that Loewe has been known for. I do like that kind of Spanish aspect. I think that that wasn't highlighted maybe quite enough before. So, yeah, that's a good thing. I will just say that the kind of glasses were A little bit too much for me. So on the brand consistency side, I think those could have gone. But, yeah, it felt good, and it kind of felt a little bit like Spanish American to me. So maybe a little bit of a new direction as well.
- [50:29]
C
You're right. I gave it a three as well. And I feel like it was like Loewe balanced with these Proenza boys. Like, the preview message, I guess it was like a show notes. Pre show notes talked about it being rooted in craft, which we know Loewe is known for. Also different elements that were inherent to it. Its Spanish roots. But then it talked about infusing optimism and spirit in a way that we recognize as deeply personal to us as individuals. And this was coming from the designers and then some of the attendees. I think this was maybe on Stylene.com, they surveyed some attendees. Somebody called it sportswear meets craft. Somebody called it New New York. Cool kids meets Madrid. So it felt like they were doing Loewe by way of their own lens, which is probably what you should be doing. But yes. So I wouldn't say it's a five. Not totally consistent with the brand. It was an updated take. I give it a three.
- [51:30]
A
The show. I. I liked the whole thing, but as far as spectacle goes, I'm gonna say two. It was like. It was, you know, clothes on a Runway. There was like, kind of this beachy theme that was cool. And they did something where, like, some of the clothes, I think, were sent down the Runway, like, intentionally kind of wrinkled and, like, not. Not perfect looking as if they'd, like, pulled it out of your bag or something. That's kind of fun. But it wasn't, like, the most. There wasn't a ton of spectacle, I think.
- [51:54]
B
Yeah. So it was a three for me. Just because of the kind of single art anchor with Ellsworth Kelly. It did feel very clean. Obviously, the venue itself was quite interesting because it is the city Universitaire, which is this beautiful kind of old building. But again, you can't really see it from the show venue. So I only saw it through people's feeds as they were going in. There's this beautiful kind of castle that is a really wonderful space, and they should have kind of highlighted that maybe a little bit more. So, yeah, that's still kind of four for me.
- [52:29]
C
Yeah, I gave it a three. We definitely. There was a lot of chatter about feeling positive and happy. The music, apparently, was a highlight. It was called the soundtrack of the day, so, you know, there was some good sentiment around it. But yes, as an outsider, you didn't.
- [52:45]
A
Feel that for reception. So, like a lot of these, it was like there was, I think, pretty solid reception of people who were there. There was a Women's Newer Daily story where they talked to a buyer at Bergdorf who said the standing ovation before the models even finished their final lap was warranted. I'm sure that's great, but maybe like a three. I don't know. Like, it feels like it wasn't a super. Super talked about. About outside of that.
- [53:12]
B
Yeah, I think it was a three as well. Obviously there's a consistency to what they're doing with what came before and I don't think that many people had any issue with what was out there. It wasn't particularly disruptive, which I think maybe some people expected, because it's Loewe. So, yeah, I think it's definitely a three for me. In terms of reception. It also didn't seem to have much staying power, so once the show went on, people didn't really reference back to it. Obviously, the buyers will most definitely have a different take, just because a lot of the pieces were probably very wearable. I think that, as a result, means that those pieces will sell very well too. Yep.
- [53:53]
C
3.5. Yeah. Same. Same reason you kind of. It wasn't the impact that a Jonathan show had. They have a lot to live up to, so. Meh.
- [54:05]
A
Yeah. And kind of same feeling with business impact. I don't want to give them too low because I think we said A1 is like they're going to tank the brand. Definitely not. I don't think that's going to happen. And they weren't timid either. It wasn't like a quiet show. They did something notably different. They didn't just try to blend in with the wall or anything, but I don't know if it's going to instantly shoot Loewe to some layer of the atmosphere that it wasn't already in. So maybe just a three. I think they're going to do a fine job.
- [54:35]
B
Yeah, I think it's a four for me, just because, again, if you're talking about sales, everything was very consistent. The pieces were easily recognisable, the styling was understandable. It makes for a very easy transition almost from Runway to shop floor. So I think for that those pieces will do well for them. The colour was a nice kind of injection. And, yeah, I'm kind of interested to see where they take it from here because obviously the next one is going to be maybe more down in line with Their signature compared to this one, which I think was a little bit tighter as well. Time wise.
- [55:10]
C
Yeah, I gave it a 3.5. And it remains to be seen, like you were saying, Sophia, the impact. But the pieces were wearable, they were strong, good enough. But I don't know that it has the cool factor anymore with these new designers actually remains to be seen.
- [55:29]
B
Yeah.
- [55:30]
A
Let's talk about Pierpaolo Piccioli at Balenciaga for the clothes. I think you make a great point, Jill, that it's a little bit. It's becoming fall now, so if I see anything bright color, I'm like, ooh, I like that. So maybe 3.5. I like the color block. And the squiggly skirt with the pieces looping off of it was kind of cool, but it didn't totally blow me away or anything. So 3.5.
- [55:58]
B
So for me, I think the Balenciaga one was a three. I kind of actually expected a little bit more in terms of the clothes. I think there was a couple of pieces that were a little bit different. So in particular, those billowing kind of trousers, I think were very cool. And there was a lot of bigger leather pieces where it was a very kind of big piece of leather draped at the shoulders or kind of a bigger top that. That really worked. But a lot of it was quite similar. And I don't know if there was that much of Pier Paolo's kind of energy and shift into it compared to what he did at Valentino. I think that it's not quite as impactful from the clothing side as I expected. So, yeah, three. For me, I agree.
- [56:45]
C
Three. It was just there. I don't covet anything, but it looked nice.
- [56:53]
A
It looked nice for consistency. I think I'm gonna actually give a little lower, like maybe a two. It definitely was very different than the Demna era of Balenciaga, which was very streetwear heavy. And I don't think there was really any of that. And in fact, a lot of the things I noticed about this collection, like the color blocks and the long gloves are like Valentino things. That's like things Pacioli did at Valentino. So in that sense, I kind of feel like he came into it and just continued doing what he was already doing a little bit. So I'm going to give it a lower a two.
- [57:26]
B
Yeah. I think I'm joining you there. It's definitely less kind of brand consistent. But at the same time, so much of Balenciaga has been shaped in recent years because of Demna and how much that was shifting. So I'm wondering if there's going to be maybe more of a callback to the heritage of the house or the silhouette. I felt like there was slightly less of that with Pierre Paolo's collection. I think that that might have been a bit of a missed opportunity. Because if you're talking about kind of going back into the archives, but yet nothing maybe feels authentically kind of Balenciaga in terms of the archival feel for that, then, yeah, I just don't think it landed in that way. I don't think that this would have been out of place on a Valentino catwalk, especially some of the more dressier pieces. So, yeah, two for me, I gave it a three.
- [58:20]
C
There were definitely silhouettes that pointed to, like, the Demna era. There was. There was talk that it felt more like pre Demna than the Demna era, that it was going back further to the brand's DNA, the brand's roots. Okay. I think that Pierre Palo mentioned that the brand, like, part of the brand or what's the brand is known for as being disruptive. As such, I would have expected more kind of, I don't know, drama. But, yeah, it was just. It was not the most consistent. You were kind of questioning where the inspo was coming from.
- [58:59]
A
Yeah. For the show, I also have just a two. I feel like it didn't really have. Didn't blow me away with spectacle. There were a lot of big names. Meghan Markle was there, Anne Hathaway, Lauren Sanchez. But other than that, just the show. So I'm just going to say two.
- [59:15]
B
Yeah, I think it's just a three for me. The show was held at the Kering headquarters, which, again, just feels like it's not really Balenciaga themed. It's just Kering themed. Overall, everything was quite restrained. There wasn't an A list. Front row, as you mentioned, and that obviously brought in a lot of impact and attention because I don't think Meghan's actually attending any other shows since. So it was the only one that she was supporting. But, yeah, I don't know if the location or the kind of impact of the spectacle really landed for me. So, yeah, three.
- [59:50]
C
For me, I had two, but I'm going to up it to 2.5 because, man, the memes going around with Megan looking awkward. It just created conversation around the show. For better or worse, I forgot about the Megan factor. That was a good invite and a good get. But, yeah, just to show.
- [60:08]
B
Yeah.
- [60:09]
A
For reception. So I'm going to give a three because it just kind of down the middle. Vanessa Friedman, in her review in New York Times, I think put it really well. She said impeccable but not fashion shattering. And I think that's a great way to put it. She also called it a no brainer collection, which is like just basically like, yeah, good, but maybe didn't blow the doors off. So I'm just going to say three for that.
- [60:32]
B
Yeah, I think it's a three for me as well. Most of the buyers that I spoke to didn't really highlight Balenciag in a big way. They did say that obviously there was a return to kind of elegance, but Balenciaga was only one of the brands listed so I'm not sure if that's as much of an impact there. So yeah, I think it's a three for me.
- [60:54]
C
Three for me as well. I was digging deep down a rabbit hole of the comments, the comments just on social media from fashion fans and it was such a mix. It was like Christabel is back. And there was a lot of excitement like that. Again calling attention to the brand's roots. But then there was like, gives off no energy. It was just like blah. Is this it? Pure Paulo. I expected more and all of that. Anyway, it was definitely a mix and definitely not rave reviews across the board. I give it a three.
- [61:29]
A
Yeah. Business impact. I was kind of between two or three here. Maybe a 2.5. It was definitely a lot safer than the Demna era didn't. Again, just similar to reception. I feel like it was completely fine and it probably will continue to be fine. Balenciaga is already, I think doing pretty well compared to say Gucci, which needs a lot more of a revitalization. So I feel like maybe 2.5.
- [61:56]
B
Yeah, I think it's a three for me just because I think usually when brands, brands and designers go safer, it actually ends up selling better as well. The fact that, you know, they're relying a little bit more on these like evening wear or elegant pieces also kind of links back to, you know, what clients might be expecting from the brand. And as a result, you know, with, with a brand like balance. Yeah, good chances are that there's a lot of client, private clients kind of relying on, you know, special pieces or luxury pieces that they can count on. So yeah, I think that's going to do quite well for them. It's still not the highest, highest scoring, but the kind of couture gowns I think will do very well. So three for me.
- [62:37]
C
That's interesting. Yeah, I also had three and I think you have made a good point. Like, if you look at what Meghan Markle was wearing, it reads as quiet luxury, which you wouldn't even think of that Balenciaga as quiet luxury. But it definitely had those vibes. It's so, ah, it's so interesting to me. I, you know, a certain designer is so fitting for a brand and it's like Demna's Valenciaga is so cool. I don't know that Pierre Palo's Valenciaga is, is a hot, a hot brand. Like the, the designer matters for sure. It feels definitely, to me, it feels like a disconnect.
- [63:11]
A
I agree, Joe. I agree. Okay. Our last designer, Matthew Blasey, at Chanel. This was extremely highly anticipated. I loved the whole thing. I have got high scores across the board for clothes. I got a five. They were really beautiful. I love the tweed and the feathers and we can get into the consistency in a minute. But I just, it was gorgeous. And I loved his work at Bottega and I think a lot of people were excited about it and I think it was worth it.
- [63:40]
B
Yeah, I agree with that. It's a five for me for Chanel as well. Just because I think that there's enough breadth in that collection to again, kind of find something for everyone. For every kind of Chanel woman rather than just one Chanel woman. I think there was a lot of interesting silhouettes, like the twin sets in particular I thought were really cool and something that kind of younger customers might be interested in. You know, big kind of voluminous skirts, a lot of tweed, but kind of almost like muted. Like the things that kind of made it interesting were the accessories. So again, more wearable. And yeah, just a lot of really great kind of separates that seem to kind of work well together. A little bit more of an impact, kind of of statement making piece with all of the kind of red and blue tweed. So yeah, really love that five for me.
- [64:31]
C
Five for me as well. I mean, largely based on vibes. There wasn't another collection in this mix that like I saw and it was like statement, statement and you're just gonna go eee. Like it gave me the feelings.
- [64:41]
B
I.
- [64:42]
C
At five. It was exciting.
- [64:44]
A
Yeah, that, that last look with the, the feathered skirt and the silk T shirt was so. I don't know. I, I agree for consistency, this is the only one where I give it a lower score. And again, it's just because it's like departure versus consistency. I just give it a three right down the middle because there was a lot of Chanel classics. Like I mentioned, tweed and feathers are both Chanel. Iconic parts of the Chanel look. But a lot of new things, particularly accessories, I think were very different. The big, funny hats and metallic bags and accessories are a huge part of Chanel's business business. I thought it was interesting that those were quite daring. And the clothes, too. Even when they were using Chanel kind of motifs, like tweed, it was tweed in a totally different way. So I'm saying three only because it was definitely, like, an intentional departure. And actually there was a Guardian article where Chanel's head of fashion said, if Chanel looks the same as before, I will be super upset. So they wanted him to do something a little different, and he did. Did.
- [65:44]
B
Yeah. I think that this one actually got a five for me for consistency, because Chanel's kind of house codes, they're so emblematic that it almost allows you to play with them as you kind of see fit. So, you know, camellias were there, tweed was there. Like, you know, the pearls and, like, in general kind of beading was there. You know, the bags, I think, granted, even in a different silhouette were there. But it's kind of what you said as well. Like, customers are expecting change from this brand. So even with all of those changes, I think that, you know, it still very much feels like Chanel. I think any one of these looks, if I saw them kind of individually on their own, I wouldn't be able to put them down to a different brand. Maybe some of the bigger kind of skirts and kind of shirt situations, I think maybe could pass off as someone else. But if you're talking about those twin skills or kind of separates, like, that all felt very Chanel for me.
- [66:42]
C
See, I felt like the suiting silhouettes were very made over. Like, I don't think. Like, I always think of their suiting silhouettes as being so old lady, and this felt young. So for me, like, I put. I gave it a 3.5.
- [66:56]
A
Tweed.
- [66:56]
C
Tweed, tweed. It was all there. But, like, the way that things were styled and updated, awesome. Like, we had the drop waist, but like a peekaboo undergarment. And we had, like, the. The beautiful skirts with an untucked shirt. Like, the styling really made it feel fresh. But, yeah, there was definitely consistency with the. With the fabrication, with the details, the bags. I mean, even just if they were carried differently, it felt cooler. Even if it's a very similar bag. So much consistency, but good departure.
- [67:30]
B
Good, good, good.
- [67:32]
A
Yes, for sure. For the show itself, I say a four. I really like the Fantastical kind of galactic set. They had, like, a big sun and, like, a planetary motif, which was cool. Fits well into this sort of, like, stepping into the future theme. And then just, like, some small things. Like we mentioned, this final look of the night was this feathered skirt and a model in, like, a silk T shirt. And she danced down the Runway, which I'm sure was rehearsed instead of just walking. And I thought that was, like, a fun, like, small detail. Maybe not spectacle in the, like, fireworks sense, but, like, doing something more interesting than just having somebody walk up and down. So I would say a four for that.
- [68:09]
B
Yeah, four for me as well. I think Chanel's become known for these absolutely massive sets. Under Karl, everyone remembers the merry go round or the shopping arcade. These are really kind of creative pursuits. And I don't know, it kind of still felt like even with all of those orbs in the air, it was a little bit less. Less focused on that production. But again, it's also just because I think the clothes needed to shine a little bit more. I agree that, you know, with. With the last model. So look 77. It was definitely a nice kind of moment and a great way to end the show with her kind of smiling and bouncing across or sashaying, I guess, across the Runway.
- [68:51]
C
I so agree. I gave it a four. I mean, beautiful setting, interesting backdrop. I'm very into, like, what. What music the designers choose. And I love the juxtaposition of this kind of. Kind of, like, I don't know, nostalgic kind of cheesy music with the beautiful clothes. Like, rhythm is a dancer was in the backdrop. So it was just very fun. So, yeah, I gave it a four.
- [69:16]
A
Cool. For reception, I think it's been very rapturous. I give it a 5. So many people saying this is like, a massive show. Huge moment for Chanel. That Blasey totally lived up to the hype, all of which I agree with. So I think it was received extremely well. There was a standing ovation, which it's kind of like, of course there was. There usually is, but I think this time it was deserved. So five for me. Great reception.
- [69:41]
B
Yeah. So I think it was definitely well received. Five for me as well, from the kind of buyer's side of things. Again, Simon Longland at Harrods said that it was the most intense anticipation of a season already defined by debuts, and Blasey delivered a debut that was nothing short of a masterclass. So from the buyers, at least, it seems like they're very happy. Creating a vision that will draw in kind of new fans, while also kind of relating and resonating with maybe some of the older Chanel's kind of clientele that have been loyal to the brand for the years. Because again, this is one of those brands that has a massive history and a huge kind of loyal fan base across all ages. So, yeah, I think that they seem very happy and as a result, I would say that the reaction is warranted in a five for me.
- [70:31]
C
Yes, I'm with you, five. I mean, a lot of pressure on this show. People have been counting down to this show ever since MeToo was announced and even throughout London and Milan fashion weeks. Just like this is the show of the season and so, so much pressure and really hit it out of the park. So everybody's in agreement here. I don't think there are any naysayers that I've seen. It's great.
- [70:58]
A
Yeah. And on business impact, it's again, interesting because Chanel's already kind of like on top of the world a little bit. Like, they're so huge, but I'm still going to say a 5 because I just think he's got the juice and, like, people love him and they love the brand and the show is a big hit. From the same Guardian article I mentioned earlier, the president of fashion said, Chanel's a 20 billion pound business. I said to him, you have one responsibility and that is I don't want a decrease. So I think, like, as long as it doesn't go down, which I don't do not think it's going to, then I think, like, the higher ups are going to be happy with him. But you can just tell from like, the vibe in the air and the reception that, like, I don't think anybody is like, ooh, this is a bad move for Chanel. I think everyone's like, oh, this is a perfect fit.
- [71:40]
B
I think, yeah, definitely. I think on the business impact, it's a bit of like a wait and see situation. I'm going to say a 4 for now because I'm really interested to see how his vision affects the stores and the layout and the visuals, because I think that will have a big factor in kind of how customers respond to it. Typically, Chanel's been so classic that I'm wondering if this is going to inject some kind of newer energy into those formats. I would say just based on the show and the accessories, there seems like there's quite a few new silhouettes. And with Chanel, even though most people are buying the classics, there's always going to be some interest from more loyal customers who already have those bags in those newer models. I think the footwear wasn't maybe particularly interesting. It all seemed to be one of three different pairs, maybe four. But they are very kind of classic wearable. They don't seem kind of super out there. So again, the staples, something, something that a lot of clients could wear without, you know, necessarily having to kind of invest in like this super fashion item. I think that's a nice update. So, yeah, four for me.
- [72:50]
C
Yeah, that's a smart, that's a smart score. I gave it a five. But yes, I mean that there is a threat to turning off that very loyal, high net worth customer. But I see it as only increasing its cool factor. This collection, where it's a bit. Been so stale for so long, where it's like we love it. This is still the pinnacle of luxury. This is what everybody. Anyway, I think that this elevated it and I just hope that they don't raise prices more.
- [73:20]
A
Yeah, Zofia, I think you had the more sober take of the three of us on that one and I think you're probably, probably good. Okay, that's all of the debuts we wanted to grade. We're going to pause for one second and do some calculations and we will be right back. The numbers are in. Our tally is finished. And it's a little bit what I was expecting. We have a far and away loser. And we have a far and away winner. Sorry for calling them a loser. And then we have a bunch of brands kind of in the middle. I'm going to read them from bottom to top. We have with 41.5, Balenciaga. We have second to last place, Loewe with 48.5. Then we have a bunch that are almost the same. Bottega with 57, Dior with 58.5, Gucci with 58.5. And then Wei in the lead, Chanel with 67.5. This is, I think, very what I was expecting. A little bit. We can just spend a minute talking about Balenciaga. Really, I think didn't impress any of us and I could sense that in the conversation. But I am a little surprised, not surprised after hearing all of our takes that it was low, but surprised. I don't know that it just didn't really wow anybody. It was a little boring. What do you guys think?
- [74:33]
B
Yeah, I think so too. I mean, I just think that there's so much expectation placed on creative directors right now and I think that maybe that expectation didn't really match with what kind of I expected from the brand. I think maybe also it's a little bit of like, standing in someone's shadow where Demna's had such an outsized impact on changing Balenciaga and making it something different, that when you see it, it almost kind of go back to basics and go back to what it was known for. That almost feels a little bit boring. And maybe that's also coming at it from a kind of observer rather than someone who's buying Balenciaga, because I'm sure that will be a completely different story. But, yeah, for me, as an observer, it wasn't the most exciting of shows this time around, although I don't know exactly how much that matters.
- [75:22]
C
Yes. I was talking to Akeem Berg for another story and a luxury analyst consultant, and he. He mentioned, like, you know, this is not the time when you're a new designer to really turn things around. Try to do anything crazy, like, come in, do your thing, do a good job. I think he did that appear. Apollo. It's. I, like, I don't want to be an ass, but because, like, you want to give people, like, three. Three seasons, I. Unfortunately, this day and age, you can't. Like, you have to come in and be impactful out of the gate. It's so much pressure. It's so hard. But, yeah, this one wasn't the winner.
- [75:55]
A
Yeah, but no surprises. The. The real winner was Chanel. Matthieu Blasi, I think, really just did a fantastic job. We all loved it. And like, we talked about. The reception from the public, I think, was very rapturous and by a significant margin here, too. Almost 10 points above the second place spot, which is Gucci and Dior Tide. Yeah, it really was. Like you said, there was a lot of pressure on this. Chanel is, like, in such a good spot. It's like a very coveted role. And I think the verdict that I've seen is just people thought he did a fantastic job, and there's a lot of excitement.
- [76:33]
B
Yeah, I agree with that. I think there's been a lot of interest in the changes at Chanel again, because it does feel like such a brand that was so maybe, again, not stale, but definitely repetitive in terms of what was coming season after season. And sometimes if you're relying a little bit too much on history and craftsmanship, it can end up feeling like that, which is what I think is a nice refresh. Also at Bottega is that kind of new take on those house codes. So, yeah, really exciting, fun show. Good kind of buzz and excitement and it seems like there's going to be some interest in it from a sell through perspective as well.
- [77:11]
C
Yeah. And good for Chanel. They're not part of these mega conglomerates. They're kind of doing their own thing and a lot of pressure on that hire the new designer. And speaking of like taking your time. They took their time.
- [77:23]
B
They.
- [77:23]
C
We were waiting for a while and.
- [77:25]
A
They really was it two years or a little less?
- [77:27]
C
I think maybe. Yeah. I felt like we were waiting forever.
- [77:30]
A
With no creative director. Yeah.
- [77:32]
C
Yep. And they hit it out of the park and yeah, no surprise. I really like how our our ratings landed. No surprises to me. And I, I this is how I would have rated them.
- [77:42]
A
Yeah. Well, as I said, this was all extremely rigorous and scientific and these are all objective numbers here with a lot of math and science went into putting these together. So thank you, Zyphia and Jill, for sharing your thoughts. This was a great conversation. And thank you for listening to the Glossy podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen to this, because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders and weekend review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time, thanks for listening.