A (2:51)

Yeah. And sometimes when I see the data and it's like it, you know, this year was terrible or something and then you look, it's like 1% less than the year before or something like that. It's like, yeah, but people are still buying a lot of stuff.

B (3:04)

Yeah. I mean, I guess that's the whole idea of like shareholder calendars.

A (3:08)

Right.

B (3:08)

Anything down is not good, so it should always be increasing. And then of course there's inflation. You know, a lot of brands have raised their prices, so I just always assume that that's also playing into the volume. You know, if, if you're paying more for something, then you're probably going to have better sales, top line wise. But yeah. What about you guys?

A (3:31)

Lexi? I. What about you?

C (3:32)

Sure. Yeah. You know, I. Similar to you, Gabby, I feel like I've been shopping less and less on Black Friday. I've certainly had a few go by where I don't buy anything and I just kind of put my head sand trying to save a little bit of money and not go crazy. But in the past I, I've mostly focused on Black Friday for considered purchases, things that are expensive, things that I know I'm gonna buy, things that I want to buy. And it's like if there's a deal, if it's a good time to do it. So like in the past, I think years ago, I bought a leather jacket on a great discount that I already wanted or I buy maybe an electronic or, or maybe, you know, think about that like one considered gift that you're, that you're purchasing for the year. That's sort of been my, been my strategy. But then I also am up for, for like the mega sales. I know you guys have probably seen these as well, where brands are just going like hard. They're going like 40%, 50% off. So if I need to restock something, I might hit one of those sales. And then I also think about sort of what's already in my cart at like the few stores that I, you know, will buy my everyday sort of things from, I'll sort of start to kind of build my cart a little bit. I also, in terms of sales, I've sort of changed my attitude a bit about it because I do tend to buy things I don't need and that I don't even really want because they're on sale. Do you guys do that, too?

B (4:50)

Yes, I tell us all the stuff. I try not to do that. Yes, I try not to do that anymore. And. Which brings me to my next question, actually, is do you put things in carts? Which, if you're a brand listening, I'm sure you hate this, but you put things in carts ahead of it, the weekend. So I'm doing that right now on things I actually do want slash need. And then, you know, while you're eating your pie or having wine on the couch. I know my sister and I do this. We kind of start to compare cards. Like, are you actually gonna hit checkout, or should I have some more wine before I do that? Kidding. But not really. Yeah. So do you. I guess it's almost like. Cause I'm thinking back of when I was growing up or even working in retail, you had to kind of go to bed early if you wanted to shop on Black Friday. And now it's almost like we subconsciously built these other weird Black Friday shopping habits without realizing it.

A (5:50)

I haven't done that one, but I kind of do something similar. I don't put it in the cart, but I do make. I sort of have a running gift list for everyone in my life. My wife and my parents and everybody. But. But I also have one for me that's just stuff that I want or brands that I like. And then when Black Friday rolls around, I go and check out each of those brands and maybe a product individually and see if it's on sale instead of just, like, going and seeing what's on sale and buying something that I hadn't thought about before. I'm very, like, slow to make decisions, and I ruminate on stuff and, like, research and ask people their opinion and stuff. I do that a lot. And sell. I have, like, a list of things that I want. And sometimes it's a specific. You know, I want this leather jacket from this specific brand, or it's just, I want a new leather jacket. And then I kind of like. So I'm a little more intentional. I don't know how common that strategy is, but that's how I do it. I have, like, specific things I'm looking for.

B (6:47)

I have a feeling we probably all are like that. But I was saying actually to. In our staff meeting the other day, I feel like I'm probably the. A bad shopper because I, like, look at all the reviews, and I really sit on items before checking out. Unless it's, of course, something you really need. But, yeah, I. I'm. I think I kind of fall in that bucket too. Whereas I know a lot of people who really just love that instant gratification of getting something on sale. What about you, Lexi?

C (7:15)

I'm a little bit more considered about Black Friday as well. Like, if I order something on Black Friday, I probably know it's not going back, it's not being returned. I'm not gonna try to deal with all of that. So I try to buy things that I know not add a lot of risk into it. But I will say that 99 of all of my Black Friday purchases have been online. I don't normally go into stores, which I might, I might actually change this year. I want to do, like, a little thrifting, bargain hunting on the weekend. So maybe I'll do that. I don't know. Do you guys shop in person or do you do digital?

B (7:51)

I do like to avoid the malls or shops that weekend, But I did, I think a couple years ago, I found myself at the mall, and actually, I was surprised that just, it wasn't that bad, like, as, as I remembered, you know, and this is in New Jersey, so I think maybe my memory, I just had this chaotic traffic and parking, and it was actually okay. Probably because a lot of people were doing the same thing shopping online.

C (8:16)

Danny, are you hitting stores in person?

A (8:18)

You know, I used to do that a lot with my cousin. He and I would every year, like, go to this mall in Long island the next day. Haven't done that in forever. But also, I don't know about you guys. I'm not a big returner. I don't buy a bunch of stuff and then return, because that's too. I'm like, that's such a headache. I don't even want to deal with that. And also because, like I said, I spent a lot of time thinking about something I want to buy before I buy it. Sometimes maybe too much. I really should just pull the trigger. Um, so I, I, I do shop online, but I, I also hate returning stuff. So I definitely have bought things, and I got it, and I didn't like it, and it's just still in my closet.

B (8:58)

I do.

C (8:58)

That's the worst. Not returning something.

B (9:01)

I. Yeah, I do. Does it. What does it count as if you do buy online? Pickup in store. Because I'm. I don't know if that's like, boomer behavior, but I actually really like it. Because then if you, like, if your size doesn't work, you can just exchange it right there. Obviously, that also is dictated by whether that's an option, and it Because a lot of things. I think we'll talk about things selling out. Right. Is another fear while you're buying things on sale.

A (9:29)

Yeah. I think we should also talk about prices because. And the discounts, because I know you guys have both covered this in your respective Beats, and I'm sure it's a very similar story to what we see in fashion. But it's like, I think you're either you're seeing a lot of brands doing shallower discounts or they have. They're doing the normal amount of discounts, but they've also raised their prices because of tariffs. So it's like, functionally the same price. So I kind of. And again, we're recording this before Black Friday, but, you know, a lot of the deals are out there already, and I think there is a feeling that the, you know, people are spending less, they have less money. I don't know about you. My rent went up this year, which sucked after not increasing for like three or four years, which was nice. So there's less money floating around, I think, in people's wallets. And at the same time, the brands do not want to discount too much because they also, you know, are tight. So I feel like there's a little bit of an impasse there. I don't know if you guys have noticed any of this already, just on an individual level.

B (10:34)

Yeah. Maybe this is a good time to talk about. Yes. Sort of what's going on in the macroeconomic factors, because, you know, of course, we have to acknowledge things like tariffs, which is why a lot of brands increase their prices. Although now I'm like, you know, if this. If the Supreme Court ends up overturning that, are they going to decrease their prices? Something tells me probably not.

A (10:58)

Definitely not.

B (10:59)

But, yeah, you've got that. You've got the recent government shutdown where a lot of people still haven't been paid, and of course, there's mass layoffs happening everywhere. So what else do you feel like is contributing to this general anxiety? Because I don't think it's new. I think last year I remember being told that the election was creating a lot of anxiety because it was just very close to Black Friday. So there's always something. But this year, I think the economy, you know, capital letters, seems to be weighing everybody down.

C (11:33)

I mean, I certainly think so. I think that. I mean, it's not to be like doom and gloom, but I think we've been in a recession for a while now. I think that the recession indicators are just so varied and diverse nowadays. And we've been looking at the stock market for the last several months and saying, oh, it's okay. But I mean, that's not what's happening when you go into stores. I mean, prices are up like crazy. And I know we just keep saying that, but there's less to go around. But I do think, and every single year, I just continually am surprised with how much people will spend for the holidays. And you guys both pointed that out at the beginning. Like, people love to shop. People are not giving up their holidays. We know that culturally this is one of the most, I mean, mo most important things in, in our society. And so I don't think people are going to stop shopping. I think we'll be going into more debt. I think that people will potentially be shopping earlier like they were last year for those discounts, though. It's sort of my. It's sort of my prediction.

B (12:29)

Yeah, I think that's something that started like during the two Prime Day events and yeah. So just to give the listeners some context, you know, maybe we could talk about last year's holiday sales. So, you know, as I said, even despite the election and economy anxiety, I think 2024, the Census Bureau data showed that the holiday retail sales increased by like 4% over 2023. And holiday sales hit a record. Let me say this. $994.1 billion. I feel like the point one is important. That was a number from the NRF from January of this year. So yeah, like we keep saying, obviously people are shopping, although where's that cash coming from? We also see a lot of data about credit card and Buy Now Pay later debt increasing. So yeah, it is going somewhere.

A (13:26)

Yeah, I think you both make extremely good points, Lexi. I 100% agree that we basically are in a recession, except a huge AI bubble is making it look like we're not. But when that inevitably pops soon we will for sure fully be in one. But also I just looked up some data on this and Buy Now Pay later obviously has been growing a lot. And right now I think it said half of American consumers might use Buy Now Pay later this holiday season, which is higher than usual. And I've said on the glossy podcast a few times that the business model of those companies is a little bit predatory, but they flourish when people need money, and that's right now. So definitely we will see a lot of that this season, I think.

B (14:15)

Yeah, we saw some recent headlines from Klarna, for example, where a lot of people are defaulting on their loans and it tends to to skew young because the young people who think they're being smarter by not opening high interest credit cards are falling into these installment payments. This is maybe a good time to start talking about some of our favorite or at least trends that we've been spotting this season that don't necessarily have too much to do with discount or promo because we all know pretty much every brand is doing some kind of site wide or percentage off. But yeah, why don't we talk a little bit about. I think we can zoom out and start with the modern gift guide. Danny, I think this is something you track a lot, which is like, if we step back, how do we all find gifts? Which is such a fascinating topic to me because, you know, we work in publishing, we know there's gift guides, we know people look at listicles. But you know, people find gifts very, in very different ways these days, mostly on social media and, you know, spoilers. ChatGPT and AI is of course generating their own gift guides now too.

A (15:28)

Yeah. So I definitely tracked this a lot and I did some research on this, I think for gift guides this year. I feel like it's a convergence of old and new a little bit. So the print catalog is back. Nordstrom famously, I think in September went back to doing a print catalog for the holiday. It's 100 pages long with 800 different products in it. A lot of it is very focused on lower price Items like under $100, which is also mirrored in their New York City store. If you've been to the one in Manhattan, it's like they have two entire floors just dedicated to gift things under $100. But it's kind of converges with the print catalog. So print catalogs are back and Amazon is doing a catalog. I mean, they've done one for a couple years now for kids, but they're fully digital and they're doing a print catalog, which I think is notable. Then there's brands that have been doing it for a while, like Marine Lair is another one. And then on the flip side, you mentioned Gabby, there's like ChatGPT, which I'm always wary of repeating stats about ChatGPT because there's so much AI boosterism out there where people are insisting it's going to change the world. We mentioned the AI bubble earlier. I've seen reports that around 60% of people will use AI to find deals or search for deals this holiday season. We've definitely written about it on glossy and I feel like modern retail has covered this as well. But the way brands are changing their websites or their marketing or their online store in order to get more easily picked up by something like ChatGPT, which crawls the Internet in a different way than a traditional like Google search is very. It's very notable. So I have more to say, but I can pause if, if anyone wants to weigh in on gift guides.

C (17:15)

I got a few in the mail catalogs specifically and I kind of felt that like pang of nostalgia from getting the Toys R Us catalog when I don't know if you guys got that when you were little but going through and like circling your things and I don't know, I think that bringing back the catalog is really fun. There were no prices in the Amazon one I did notice which was like a little funny as opposed to like thinking back to the, to the Toys R Us era.

B (17:43)

It makes sense probably.

C (17:44)

No, no, I mean it makes perfect sense. I mean like, I feel like the prices are different every day when you.

B (17:48)

Go on there because it's dynamic pricing that's changing. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I am kind of surprised or maybe not really. I don't know if that's a recession indicator that Nordstrom decided to go more value driven because I don't know if you guys remember a few years back like a lot of the department stores really leaned into more luxury or these kind of ridiculous. You know, I think the Neiman Marcus or the Burgdorfs of the world were doing these really luxury forward catalogs that in a way we're kind of. It's almost like the luxury advent calendars to me where they're like made to go viral. More so than maybe you know, sell to people. But yeah. What do you think is driving this value? I guess when it comes to something like analog out of home, something you're getting in your mailbox that you're not technically clicking on.

A (18:39)

You know, I thought about this and I'm not sure. Well, first I can say I think I know why there's so many more digital gift guides in general. I don't know if you guys noticed this, but I feel like every publication on earth, no matter how tangentially related it is to consumer goods, has a gift guide. The New Yorker has a gift guide now. But also a lot of brands that I follow and I'm sure for you too are pitching to get into gift guides aggressively. They pitch us all the time and we don't do gift guides. But there also there's now tons of sort of smaller under the radar gift guides on like substack, for example. There's habitually Chic and the wardrobe edit are like two big fashion substacks that have gift guides with affiliate links and everything in it. And I think despite that being sort of an old idea, I think that is related to ChatGPT and AI searches because that's the kind of thing if you search on ChatGPT, it's going to pull from like, as it's looking for. When you search something on ChatGPT, it's like looking for high quality text, you know, it's looking for articles from reputable, you know, newspapers and magazines and things like that. So if you can get into a lot of different gift guides, that I think makes it more likely that you show up when somebody's searching for deals through ChatGPT because that's what it's going to pull. But then print catalogs, obviously ChatGPT has no idea what's in a print catalog unless it's like published out there digitally as well, which I don't think they are in a notable way. So I honestly don't really know what's driving that. I think they're cool. I like them, I like receiving them. Maybe because digital ads are so saturated and expensive that those marketers think there's a better return. I think it's very fun and I appreciate it. On a personal level, from a business perspective, I'm not 100% sure yet what the, the strategy is. I don't know if you guys have thoughts on that though.

C (20:34)

I think it's exactly what you said, Danny. I think it's like it's so saturated online. Every single influencer, every single publication has numerous gift guides. And I, I don't mind looking at some of their gift guides sometimes it's a great way to discover product. But there's just so many of them and so much of it is just an affiliate revenue play. That's why all the publications are doing it. It's so low lift. An intern normally puts them together. I mean, well, maybe not an intern anymore, maybe an assistant nowadays, I don know if they do interns anymore. That might be illegal now.

B (21:04)

Yeah, I don't know if we could talk about the affiliate publishing business. We'll go down a completely different rabbit hole. But. Well, actually, speaking of. Yeah, I mean, where do, where do those fall now? Because so many publishers and affiliate programs were built on this model, right? Which is like for those unfamiliar, it's essentially the commission model, right? Which is like if I click on something on Oprah's Gift Guide or Strategist Wirecutter Et cetera. They are getting a cut from that commission through the link. Are those as valuable anymore or are they. I guess I've heard some marketers say that they are worried that that's going to start losing share to the AI. You know, the bots that are curating your gift guide on, on your behalf. But it might be a little too early because the, the ChatGPT, like Shopify integration, all of that just started.

C (21:59)

No, I, I think that, I think you're right on that. I think that it, you know, it is so saturated. I think the, I think the reason why catalogs are having this moment and all of these like IRL activations we're going to talk about and all of this sort of interesting stuff is just to kind of stand out and you see the pendulum sort of swinging all the way to AI and everything's so techy and so automated and now it's like, I think people are just craving this other side of things again. I, I think it's pretty simple, but I don't know. And also, like a lot of brands, they pay to be in catalogs, they pay the retailers to be in catalogs. And a lot of the gift guides online, they pay to be in those gift guides. So it's a very, it's a very complex sort of atmosphere around that as well.

A (22:42)

Yeah. What about strategies that are not just discounts? Because I feel like this is, it's for many years now. Like there are brand. I get pitches, and I'm sure you guys do too, that are like, we're not doing a discount this Black Friday and we're making a big deal out of it, which I think is, you know, perfectly valid. But particularly now, I mentioned this earlier, I feel like there's this impasse where the retailers would love to not do discounts or the brands would. And I think a lot of customers now are even more discount focused than they were before because of the economy being terrible. So I don't know. Have you guys seen any interesting strategies around Black Friday that are not just cutting 10 off or 20 off something?

C (23:25)

Yeah, I've seen, I've seen a few. And Gabby, I know we were forwarding things back and forth all around this one big sort of idea of using scent to do sort of a version of proximity marketing around shopping. So we've seen Nest do this in the past, scenting Fifth Avenue with their, you know, holiday fragrances. And I kind of thought that was sort of a one off. And then this year, I know Gabby and I both said, seen A couple brands that are doing this again this year, Bath and Body Works, they're doing a, what they call a scent takeover at Grand Central in New York where they're going to scent the, the whole area with, you know, some of their holiday scents. They're also doing like a movie theater centigrations where they have ads for their products. And they're also scenting the air that feels very much like a, you know, soaring over California Disney ride. I don't know if you guys have been on that, but you know, there's like different scents that kind of hits you in the face and makes it kind fun. So I think that's been, that's been sort of interesting. There was one more as well that I found. Scentbird, a fragrance subscription box. They scented a corner in soho in the middle of November as sort of like a, a collaboration with Givenchy, which scentbird is, carries a bunch of different fragrances. So I thought that that was kind of interesting and a way to sort of stand out, especially since fragrance is having a big moment. Yeah, that was kind of a cool one. Have you guys seen anything like that in person? You guys are both in New York. I'm not.

B (24:57)

Yeah, I think there's, there's definitely a lot of different examples we can point to. But this idea of, you know, I actually asked Nest about this because I am, you know, we do have a story coming out about it is that, you know, what draws people to this. First of all, you've got a captive audience. There are literal people walking by and there's that sensorial aspect, right, where it's like that Christmassy scent really draws people in. And so they're really betting that people will stop and will engage. There's QR codes involved. There's the. Actually they do have a partnership with a couple of Department Stores on 5th Ave. Where you can actually walk in and shop for the candle. And so, yeah, I think these are examples of. They're almost like pop ups, right? I mean they don't necessarily fall into the classic shoppable pop up, but it is something that you actually do have to be there in person, you know, and you are going to have FOMO if you're seeing a bunch of people, including influencers, post about, oh my gosh, the whole street smells like this candle. So yeah, I think we've got that. We had. Also another interesting example that I came across was KitchenAid, which, you know, of course holidays cooking is a big category. They have this New York City showroom where you can, it's like an outfitted, pretty much dining dinner party showroom where you can actually book it for yourself and host the dinner party there. So that's something like where you're thinking outside the box and it's not just putting your KitchenAid mixer on discount. Right. You really are trying to provide this. And I know we use this word a lot, it's very jargony, but like an experiential marketing opportunity there. I mean, you know, do these really drive numbers? It's sometimes it's hard to measure, but I think when you're trying to really stand out and create even like potentially a viral moment, this is what marketers are telling me they're really leaning into this year.

A (26:58)

One thing I, I saw, I was thinking about the brands that, like, I mentioned who intentionally, like, don't do any Black Friday discount discounts. And they are known for that and they kind of like make a whole thing about it. There are some brands that don't like Buck Mason. They never do Black Friday, but I don't think they really talk about it that much. But there's brands like Freytag is one where every year they don't do Black Friday and they specifically do like an anti Black Friday campaign where they, they put marketing dollars into the fact that they don't discount. And two that do that are REI and Patagonia. And actually both of them, like, we're recording this a week before both of them have discounts happening right now, which is kind of funny. They're like, we don't do black, but it's not marketed as Black Friday. It's just like a normal discount. So they're just like, have some. But they're, they are both known for not having discounts. And rei, I think, fully closes. Patagonia might too. I know Freytag definitely just like closes their doors on, on Black Friday, but they do have, like, small deals ahead of time leading up to it. So that's kind of just, I don't know, an interesting strategy. But I think there's a lot of, like, levers that brands can pull. And if you're not going to touch price, there's only a handful of others that you, you know, there's free shipping or something like that perks and loyal, like an extra little gift in the package when you get it, something like that. There are other things you can do that are like, around providing more value. And I feel like that's the term brands use to me when they're saying, like, we're doing less discounting, more providing More value, which is, I think, a helpful way to think about it. Like, what can we do other than lower the prices? And a marketing campaign like, you know, spraying fragrance all over the place is also, you know, a good way to do that.

C (28:41)

Yeah, Danny, it's funny you mentioned that, because the same thing happened with Jones Road, which is this cosmetics brand founded by Bobby Brown and she. We had a big story two years ago on the site about how she's not doing a Black Friday sale and they ended up having really great sales with it. But then this year I saw that they are doing a sale, so they kind of walked that back slightly. But they're only doing, I think, like 20 or 25% off. But they have a bunch of new releases, packaging, limited edition stuff like glass jars, like sort of upgrades that are fun and festive and special. So I have seen a lot of that. I've seen sort of like that sort of bottom discounting strategy, like 20%, which is what like a lot of the L' Oreal brands are doing, for example, to kind of be part of it, but not necessarily like giving product away for an extended period of time. Um, but yeah, I think that a lot of brands are sort of adding on the gift with purchase, like you mentioned, Danny. Like, I think everything in my inbox is all gift with purchase, and a lot of them are like tiered where you'll have like over 50, over 100, over 200. And the gift with purchases just keep getting better, sort of to like gamify the shopping experience. You know, One thing that I've seen that I think is really interesting is these sort of like long drawn out collaborative giveaways. Um, so like, I'll. I'll share one that I've been watching from Beach Waiver, which we've had. Sarah Potempa, the founder, on the podcast before. She's super smart. She goes live on social all the time. She has a big social following and she did a program this year. It was 32 days of. It was called she Slays like a. Like a Santa Sleigh. And it's basically a campaign where every single day they have a different female founded brand on their live channel. And they've put together these little bundles that are worth, I think a thousand dollars or giving them away to people who are watching. So she's basically partnering with 32 different brands. And I have to admit, like, the content is. It's dynamic, but it's low lift. It's basically just someone on her team walking them, you know, walking the Audience through the, the product and the brand they're collaborating with and then selling these bundles and giving them away as well. So I think that like the collaborative vibes are big this year. I feel like that's a, that's a strong way to go about it.

B (30:52)

Yeah, yeah, that's something I wrote about recently. Just brands that, you know, some maybe you wouldn't really think of as, you know, kind of fit into a box as part of a gift set, are collaborating for holiday gift sets. I think the idea, as a lot of us know, is that, you know, you're tapping the other brand's audience and vice versa, and you're creating, you know, a limited edition. I mean, people love limited edition and unique product set. So I talked to Josh Sellers, who, you know, of course they're known for their wine. They put together a Prosecco and candle set with hotel lobby candle. And you know, they are seeing a lot of excitement around that, which makes a lot of sense. Like that's a hostess gift or a New Year's, you know, makes a lot of sense for. For the season. Yeah. So I think the idea is that you want to bundle and create this value perception. Right. But at the same time. And discovery. But at the same time you're not like giving the product away, as you said, Lexi. And then the other one is Advent calendars, which I mentioned. I think these are almost like, I guess like a pushed up purchase. Right. Because a lot of people tried to get them ahead of the December or whatever. I don't know, there's a lot of different countdowns happening now. But that's another way to draw customers in, to kind of engage with you almost like on a daily basis, depending on the product. And I know Alexi, we've talked a lot about, you know, these can really run the gamut. You've got like Diptyque and you've got Dior and you've got also like pet treats. Like I talked to a pet brand that did them. We talked about that on the podcast recently. But yeah, I think the idea is just to get creative with your merchandising. Whether it's an add on, whether it's gift set, gift for purchase, whatnot.

A (32:47)

Speaking of Advent calendars, did either of you guys see the Malort Advent calendar? Do you know what Malort is? Very, very powerful Chicago liquor that is tastes disgusting. And there's an Advent calendar and it's like 25 days of Malort or whatever. And in each one it's just another bottle of Malort. It's like not even different flavors or anything. But speaking of this is not necessarily collaborations but a giveaway that I saw. I was thinking about Black Friday campaigns or promotions or strategies that stood out to me that I wanted to mention and I got a pitch for one that I just really admired for the bluntness of this email headline. Email subject. It just said smoke weed and win a Birkin. Which I.

B (33:31)

Okay, I'm listening.

A (33:32)

I really was caught my attention. It's a dispensary called Sweet Life Cannabis Dispensary. But it's literally like for every $100 you spend there for Black Friday, you get another entry in a raffle to get a Birkin bag. And I kind of liked the bluntness of the headline, but also the just straightforwardness of the promotion. It's like, hey, buy a bunch of weed from us and we'll just give you a Birkin. It's not very subtle but, but it's like speaking of like non discount strategies, you know, they don't have to sell anything for a lower price, but you have the potential to get something extremely discounted, which is a Birkin for a couple hundred dollars, however much you spent on weed.

B (34:17)

Yeah, so we talked a lot about, you know, the non discounting strategies but you know, it is Black Friday and like as we have said, brands have for the most part given in and they do discounts but they, I have noticed that they're being more strategic with the sort of release at least, you know, some companies. But what are you guys, what do you guys think of the sort of gamification of the online cart?

A (34:43)

Right.

B (34:43)

Which what I'm referring to is I noticed it mostly in like the apps, like the branded apps where it's essentially asking you to be a rewards member or sign up for notifications and whatnot to get early access. So you know, brands like Skims, Aritzia, Aloe, even Sephora, Ulta, you know, they all have these tiered rewards programs and so they're really trying to literally reward the power shoppers or the biggest spenders with the early sales, which, you know, to the average person might not seem that valuable, but when you think about products or categories that sell out really fast on discount, that could be a big draw. So that's something I've noticed has become almost table stakes recently.

C (35:30)

Oh yeah. I mean I think it's. I think brands have to have this kind of stuff. They have to have these sort of ways to reduce friction, to get people shopping faster, to remind them of their carts, to give them rewards and gw PS and that's because I mean like all of the brands, Gabby, you mentioned, like they're available other places too. So I, I have found that most of the companies that I'm tracking right now are having special things on their sites sort of similar to that. These like special sort of programs. Yeah, because it's like why would you buy something from a small store when you can get it on discount at a big box store and maybe you know, add a couple things and get free shipping or, or whatever it is. But yeah, I can only imagine how challenging it is right now for those brands to be trying to fight for attention. Really.

A (36:16)

Yeah, I agree with that. And also what I see in fashion in particular, like we kind of touched on this, but I think there's kind of two directions where some brands, I would say a lot of brands, if they're already kind of a little bit more expensive or a little bit more premium, are. They know that like their most valuable customer is like the, the wealthiest one and the one who buys the most frequently. And so they're, I think you see more brands like focusing in more and more narrowly on like that top tier customer because they know that they're going to keep shopping and everything. But then like we mentioned Nordstrom kind of leaning into lower priced gifts for the holidays is a little bit surprising. But Nordstrom Rack has been like way outperforming Nordstrom. It's been growing a lot. And so I think because they already are seeing some success there, maybe that's why they're leaning into it. But yeah, I think for a lot of brands they, they know that loyalty will help see them through maybe a rough economic times where if you've got like, if people are cutting out, you know, spending from their, from their, their life, from their habits, they'll probably, if they're super loyal to a brand, if they're like someone who buys everything day one, they're least likely to maybe cut that brand out of their life if they need to make some, some spending changes. So the brands are like, that's the person we're going to focus on. And then obviously they still want to bring people into the loyalty programs too.

B (37:37)

But right. I mean that's its own thing, right? Which is like there's all this value from, from creating loyalty through rewards. But it's also a logistics solution too. I've heard some brands say that when you stagger your sales throughout the season it helps with fulfillment because I don't know if you guys remember, but it used to Be like, you know, when a brand would just sell out from that Thursday through Monday or whatnot, then all of a sudden you have to fulfill like thousands of, of orders and your, you know, your warehouse is overwhelmed. So in a way you're also, you know, kind of relieving that pressure.

C (38:15)

Yeah, so true. I mean, so much of the beauty industry, which is one of my main beats, is just drives on that, on that sort of rewards of bringing the consumer back in time and time again and offering them that, that free stuff. And, and we do see that some of those sales are extended out like what you're saying. They just go for, you know, their own. They have their own sale times and they also have like much longer windows.

B (38:36)

How does it. I. I do wonder with Beauty because, I mean, we talked about some apparel brands, but with Beauty specifically. Lexi, I'm curious how it, you know, staggers with the like drops. Right. Because you also have a lot of product drops throughout the season. And I think if you're a customer that's trying to have your cake and eat it too by like getting a new lipstick shade or a new palette on discount, you might be out of luck sometimes and have to go to a different retailer.

C (39:03)

Right.

B (39:03)

Like if something's sold out at Sephora, maybe you'll go to the brand's D2C website.

C (39:07)

Sure. You know, I have noticed that there are quite a few brands in my inbox right now that are launching things on Monday after. And I think that's probably sort of drum up a little bit of excitement on the cyber Monday, which of course we are all shopping digitally the entire time. But I think that that's sort of become a little bit of a trend dropping something on the Monday. And then also a trend we see like year over year is, you know, making releases after Christmas. So like very late December right before they're calling it right before the end of the year. And that's because, you know, beauty isn't so simple to buy for people. And it's a big gift cart, a big gift card sort of market. A lot of people are getting and returning or they're getting gift cards for the holidays. And so I think brands are starting to capitalize more and more on that.

B (39:54)

Yeah, that makes sense. You're probably not going to match someone's foundation shade virtually.

C (40:00)

Yeah, fair.

A (40:02)

I'm glad you mentioned gift cards. I wanted to say one quick thing. I've been trying to write a story about this for a little while when I learned somebody told me recently the percentage of gift Cards that don't get used to. I forget the percentage, but I just looked it up, and it's like $20 billion worth of, you know, gift cards just don't get spent, which, for the brands is, like, free money. So I've, like, when I heard that statistic, I'm like, there's got to be a good story about gift cards in here. But I haven't gotten around to writing it yet.

C (40:28)

I mean, it's so true. I'm sure I have. I. I can think of a few times where I lost a gift card or I didn't use it, and I'm.

B (40:34)

Like, ah, you got to take a picture. That's what I always do. Put in your.

C (40:39)

Oh, smart.

B (40:40)

Yeah. Camera roll.

A (40:42)

Yeah, I just do. Every six months, I, like, find one in, like, the couch cushion or something, and then I have to call the number and find out if there's any money on it. It's. It's a whole ordeal.

B (40:52)

Yeah. I think that January. Yeah. Spend. Which tends to be a slow month, but now you've got, like, wellness and New Year new you. I think a lot of brands are realizing, like, oh, we can actually market. Yeah. Whatever is the latest health or wellness trend to people who just suddenly came into a bunch of gift cards. All right, well, on that note, why don't we finish it off with a fun lightning round of what we're shopping for? I feel like that might really send us off into our Black Friday shopping. Danny, you go first.

A (41:25)

Okay. I have a good one, which I'm gonna not plug any specific brand, but I really like these Japanese hand towels. They're just a long, rectangular handkerchief kind of thing that are very versatile. And I have a few. And I was thinking I would get some more this season. Maybe one for me, maybe get one for some friends and family, because they're fun and versatile, and then if you don't like them, they fit in a drawer very easily. But then tariffs are making that very difficult because they're all way more expensive, and the shipping is a lot higher, too. So I always. I. In previous years, I would typically be buying stuff from, like, Japan or from Italy or places like that, and that's definitely harder. This year.

B (42:07)

You might get hit with a. With an invoice from your carrier. Just. I might.

A (42:13)

I hope not.

B (42:14)

Yeah. Alexi, what about you?

C (42:18)

Me and my husband are half looking, but really do need a new mattress right now, so I feel like that's one of those purchases that makes sense to do right now, but we don't know what one we want. So I'm not sure if I'll be able to report any success with that, but that is on my mind. I'm also. I've been saying it for years that I'm not like a. Like a health tracker person because I've sort of dabbled in it in the past, but now I'm covering wellness so much more. So I feel like it's maybe finally time to get some sort of tracker for myself. Maybe. Maybe I'll buy, like, an aura ring or something. I don't know. But I will say, in terms of gift giving, I. Maybe last year or. Or maybe it's been a few years now, but I kind of pulled back from buying for most people, and now I do, like, a big. This is so lame. I do, like, a big baking day where I make, like, cookies and banana bread and, like, other fun things, and then I get some, like, Christmas candy or Hanukkah candy, and I kind of like, toss it into the box, and everybody gets a box of baked goods like, a week and a half before the holidays sort of kick off. And that's kind of like where I. Where I'm at now, because there's more kids in my family now, so, like, they get little gifts, but I can't be doing all the rest anymore.

A (43:31)

So I strongly support this idea. Consumable holiday gifts are great because then when they're done, you don't need to find a place to store them.

C (43:38)

Yeah. And people love it.

B (43:40)

You just have to work out and burn them off. Yeah. Sorry, what were you saying?

A (43:45)

Fair? No, I just. I have a tiny New York City apartment. It's not that tiny anymore, thankfully. But, like, whenever I get stuff, a lot of times I'm like, God, now I have to put this somewhere.

B (43:55)

I have the same exact issue where I'm like, oh, my God. Okay, now this thing has to live.

A (43:59)

With me, which is like, my closet is perfectly arranged where they cannot accept one more object. Like, everything is. It's at maximum.

B (44:09)

It's a very much like a purge. One buy one. Like, I literally have to get rid of things to buy new things. But, yeah, speaking of, I guess I'm in the same boat where my family's kind of like, transition more into, like, the white elephant secret Santa, except for the kids, because there's just. Everyone has their own little family now, but, you know, so that I'll worry about later and I won't spoil it to whoever ends up being the recipient. But I am. I am basically shopping for myself. Okay. Let's just, let's just put it out there.

C (44:41)

Love it.

B (44:42)

Yeah. You know, I've been wanting a new coat. Like, just like a, you know, like I guess a quote unquote investment. More like a wool cashmere blend. And you know, the Max Mara is out of budget so I have to find a dupe. So if anyone has any suggestions, let me know. But that's something I have. I'm just kind of browsing the web for this weekend.

A (45:08)

Well, hopefully we can all get exactly what we want this holiday season.

B (45:12)

Yes. Even if it is self gifting.

A (45:16)

Well, nice talking to you guys. Thank you for the great conversation. Hopefully we'll do another crossover with the three podcasts in the future.

C (45:24)

Sounds good to me.

B (45:25)

I agree. This is fun.

A (45:31)

And thank you for me letting listening to the Glossy podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen to this because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy Podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders and weekend review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time. Thanks for listening.