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- [00:05]
A
Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our international reporter, Zofia Zvyglinska. Hello, Zofia, how are you?
- [00:15]
B
Yeah, great. Thank you so much for having me on again.
- [00:18]
A
Yeah, thanks for being here. This week we are discussing a couple of big stories. We're going to talk about the return of the Victoria's Secret fashion show, which happened Wednesday night. We're also going to talk about a number of luxury brands who are getting fined by the EU over their pricing practices, which we've talked a lot about EU regulations and how it's affecting luxury brands in recent weeks. Finally, I want to talk about the new CEO taking over at Armani and the future of the sale of Armani. We're recording this Thursday morning and I think it was announced officially that he was taking over an hour or two before this. So it's very fresh. But that's what we're going to talk about for the news. In the second half of the episode, our editor in chief, Jill Manoff is joined by Ty Haney to talk about her return to Outdoor Voices. They also talk about her new capsule collection with the brand and where she thinks Outdoor Voices stands among other athleisure brands and the future of that category. So that'll be in the second half of the episode, but let's start talking about the news. Like I said, the Victoria's Secret show was Wednesday night. It's the second show since it returned last year. A quick history lesson is that they used to do these shows every year. I'm sure a lot of our listeners are aware of that, but then stopped in 2018. They took a long break and Victoria's Secret was kind of in this identity crisis. Do we want to be more inclusive? Do we want to lean into the sexiness? They kind of, I think, were flip flopping a little bit. And then last year in 2024, they made a big return with the show and I think it was actually pretty successful. And they came back for a second year. This is also the first show with their new creative director, Adam Selman, who I spoke to last week to talk about sort of his vision of the brand. And he told me that he started in April and literally a week later, they were like, what do you want to do for the show? So he had a pretty big hand in shaping it. Did you get a chance to see some of the looks or what did you think of the spectacle?
- [02:16]
B
Yeah, I actually tuned in yesterday into the Live show where twice the K pop band was performing. So I saw a couple of the looks as well as some of the wings. A lot of pink, I think. So that was nice to see. I guess with all of their signature colors, it felt like a little bit more of that 2010 kind of energy that they had when the shows were still big. And I believe it's also the first time that they've put out the actual pink line, which is, I think, their younger line into the show itself, which I think is going to be popular with a lot of the younger fans and customers who probably have watched the original show and like that kind of buzzy kind of pop energy.
- [03:02]
A
Yeah, for sure. It's interesting. I feel like the aesthetic of it. I was reading a little bit. I'd say I talked to the creative director, but I was also just reading about. They also have a fairly new CEO, Hilary Super. And she talked a little bit about wanting to have the brand in the show. Sort of like a return to sexiness or something, you know, like returning back to this kind of aesthetic. But then when I talked with Adam Selman, he kind of gestured more toward, like, you know, he was like, I want to have more diversity and more, you know, show different types of women and things like that. There was. We were just talking before the recordings. For the second year, they had a trans model on the Runway, which I feel like is notable given the extreme anti trans, I don't know, movement from the presidency and the Trump administration. They had Jasmine Tooks, who walked on Runway while pregnant. They had a few women of different body types. I would say definitely a lot of the models are classic thin Victoria's Secret models. It was not a cornucopia of diversity, but definitely some and probably more than you might expect given, given the kind of severe backlash to anything even resembling DEI or anything like that in the US specifically. So I was pleasantly surprised that I feel like Adam Selman kind of stuck to the guns a little bit there. You could definitely, probably compare to last year's pre Trump show and probably notice some differences. I think there were two trans models last year and only one this year. So a little bit of a change. But it is interesting to try and feel out how Victoria's Secret is navigating. Like, are we woke? Are we anti woke? What's the vibe out in the world? That kind of thing.
- [04:49]
B
Yeah, definitely. And I think what's interesting to note this time around is that they also brought on athletes onto the Runway. So you had Angel Reese, who's the WNBA pro, who's now apparently making history as the first professional athlete to walk in the show, as well as Suni Lee, who's the Olympic gymnastics champions for the US and she was walking as part of the kind of pink line look. So also kind of tailored towards a younger audience. And I know that obviously athletes have been coming more and more into the fashion sphere. I think there was some athletes who were present at Paris Fashion Week. So I guess this is a good way for VS to kind of get into what is popular right now, especially considering the performances as well, as I mentioned, like twice, which is a big kind of K pop band. We had Madison Beer, Missy Elliott, Carol G. So a lot of kind of musicians as well that I think were more suited for a younger audience, maybe. Although Missy Elliott's personal favorite. So, you know, older gens get in there too.
- [05:53]
A
Same. I love Missy Elliott. I was very excited that she was there. But, yeah, I was very surprised to learn that this is the first time they've had a professional athlete on the Runway. That was shocking to me. I was certain they must have done that. But I think in previous years, like in pre2018, when they were doing the Victoria's Secret shows, a lot of times it was just models who were famous for being models and not necessarily like pop culture figures, obviously. There's a ton of crossover, though, and I feel like I talk to brands all the time and they're talking about we want to stay in touch with culture and we want to be connected to music and sports and TV and all these things, which includes having people who are famous for something other than being a model walking on the Runway. So obviously, Angel Reese, I think, was a great pick. The WNBA is huge and particularly has lots of crossovers with fashion, as we've discussed on the podcast many times. So that one felt very like a natural fit. It was just surprising to me that that's the first time that this is the first time they've had a pro athlete at the show. I don't know. I assumed they would have done that before.
- [06:59]
B
Yeah, same. I'm quite surprised that they did that for the first time only in 2025. You just thought that athletes would be the top people beforehand, too. I mean, even Sharapova could have probably walked in a VS look and I wouldn't have looked twice.
- [07:14]
A
Yeah, you'd think. Anyway, so maybe we move on to our second topic here. I want to talk about several brands, Gucci, Loewe and Chloe, all being fined this week by EU authorities for what they called anti competitive pricing practices as part of a probe that's been going on since 2023, involved authorities making unannounced visits to stores and facilities of the three brands in question, basically alleges that they engaged in something called RPM or Resale Price Management, essentially that the brands in question were placing unlawful restrictions on their wholesale retailers ability to set their own prices. The reports I have read don't say exactly how they were restricting it, but I imagine if you're Gucci, you know, and it did, the report I read said it was mostly independent retailers. If you're a brand like Gucci or Loewe, you do have a lot of leverage, I think, over a smaller retailer and you can probably make demands of how they sell your product in a way that you maybe don't have the same leverage with a big department store or you wouldn't have if you're a smaller brand, not Gucci. So yeah, it's interesting. I have more to say, but I will pause there. What do you make of the. The finds and the investigation?
- [08:26]
B
Yeah, so one of the kind of most interesting parts, and this is something I actually discussed with a friend who's an antitrust lawyer and so she has some insight into kind of what this means for retailers and kind of how the shift in power is changing with this anti competition kind of lawsuit. And it's probably the first one where there have been actual fines. It sets up a precedent basically for retailers to take action or to sue brands for losses that they might have incurred because of something like this where they had been setting prices for the retailers to take on. I think it's particularly interesting considering how many retailers in recent years have had financial difficulties. And I'm wondering if maybe now they'll be able to recoup some of those losses and potentially sue some of these brands. Now, obviously, depending on relationship kind of management, I don't know how many of them will want to. However, it might lead to contract changes in private. So for example, the Retail Price management or rpm, that kind of clause in a contract will probably have to come out and brands won't be able to set out, for example, blackout periods where they won't be able to change prices. And it also means that retailers might be slightly, well, they might have a slightly easier time of getting rid of older stock or things that are not selling because they'll be able to either increase discounts or sell it in a different way that previously wasn't allowed because of how brands would manage that from their side. And have that kind of strict control. And so she said that that's very interesting because it's the first time that retailers or even customers will be able to sue for damages if they made any kind of excessive payments on products during that time period.
- [10:20]
A
So basically, it's like these brands were putting some sort of limit in place on the retailers. You can't sell it below this price. And then the retail retailers were losing out because one of the ways they move product is like discounting it further and further until it's sold. And if they can't go below a certain price, they just have stuff that's not selling. I see. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And I think obviously these three big brands are the ones that have that kind of leverage and can get that put into a contract. Or maybe it's not even written down officially, but it's just kind of an unofficial thing. But all three brands, from what I read, cooperated with the investigation. The fines were not that bad. I think Gucci was only fined like 10 million euros, which is nothing for them. But I do. The other thing I wanted to ask you about this, Zofia, is because I feel like this is in your world. It does feel like the EU regulators are very much on a warpath with luxury fashion. I feel like there's been a lot of enforcement actions, a lot of investigations into luxury supply chain, into luxury labor practices practices, into luxury pricing. Now it feels like there's a lot of scrutiny on the industry. It's a big part of the economy. I think for a lot of European countries, like obviously France, Italy, Spain, through Louisville, it's a big part of the business. I don't know. What do you think is behind them taking such a strong interest in this sector? And I don't know. What do you think?
- [11:50]
B
I think that a lot of this has to do with how the luxury industry has shifted over the last 10 or 15 years. You know, in terms of production, a lot of that previously from like a reputational standpoint was linked to things being made in Europe or made in Italy. And obviously over the last 10 to 15 years, as those industries have grown, that production has shifted. And as a result, I think from a reputational standpoint, it's changed how all of those kind of supply chains operate. It's also how they're thought of because a lot of companies have closed down now. There's this subcontracting happening in Italy, for example. All of those things kind of affect how production is seen in Europe. And as a result, I think it basically damages the production value that external partners might have with European luxury brands or European luxury, I don't know, material manufacturers or clothing manufacturers. I think what the EU is trying to do, and all of these local enforcement agencies are also trying to do, is basically build up that reputation back up after quite a few investigations now into luxury brands, handling that in a really bad way. Either it's through the fact that there is a lot of subcontracting happening, or it's because of these prices, I guess, pricing, extortion. I think there's been a lot of talk recently about how excessive the price increases are in the luxury sector, considering, again, the production value where it doesn't always kind of line up. And in fact, in some cases, including I think in the Loro Piana investigation that I covered earlier this year, it directly kind of contradicts each other. The prices are excessive. However, the production itself is happening through subcontracting. Some are way down the supply chain and there is abuses happening in that. So I think, again, it's trying to bring back those standards, but I don't know how successful that will be and also how long it will take, because this is something that has been set up over at least 20 years. And to change a system like that, and especially as fragmented a system as fashion, I think it just takes a lot to kind of get it back to where it should be. So we might still see more of this.
- [14:13]
A
Yeah, I think you make a good point. I mean, luxury has pretty much as one of its main assets is its reputation. And when things come out that this product is being handmade by an artisan and actually it's made in a windowless room or something, things like that do damage to the reputation. So it is kind of in their best interest to uphold the standards. Like you said. It's always an interesting contrast to me the way EU regulations are created and enforced compared to the US where it's kind of feels like the Wild west and companies just do whatever they want. And like, whether you're going to get hit with any sort of, like, regulatory action depends on, like, if the President likes you or not. I don't know, it feels like so different. So on the one hand, I kind of. I'm like, a little envious of the EU at, like, the ability to actually enforce some of these rules that they have in place. I'm sure there's issues with it too, but it is interesting to see an industry actually be regulated and the rules that are in place actually be enforced.
- [15:18]
B
And there are other factors too. There's been some policy shifts in Brussels as well that have meant that there's a kind of tougher stance towards enforcement. There's also some kind of legal issues as well where the legal kind of toolkit that was set post2022 basically gives regulators a firmer ground to start prosecuting these companies. And then finally it wouldn't be 2025 without talking about AI, but the risks of algorithm based models basically are escalating and as a result, the kind of automated systems that a lot of fashion relies upon, whether that's E commerce or kind of backend, basically it increases the risks of these vertical controls and it showcases that there's a lot of issues with the pricing with assortment and kind of the way that brands manage it. But I think that would have to be for a separate episode because it's very, very detailed and very complex. I'm sure we can talk about it in a much deeper episode some later time.
- [16:18]
A
Yeah, we'll get into it at another time with the last few minutes for this segment. Let's talk a little bit about Armani. So like I said, we're recording this Thursday morning, just before this, they announced that Giuseppe Marzocchi is going to take over as the new CEO. Giorgio Armani died I think only a few weeks ago. They've been without a leader since then. But Marzochi has been with armani for over 20 years. He recently was their chief commercial officer and he's going to be overseeing the company through the sale period. As we've talked about, Giorgio Armani's will stipulated that his heirs have to sell the company. I think they have to sell at least 15% of it within the first year and then the rest in 18 months or something. So it's interesting. A lot of times companies are rumored to be looking for buyers or they're there's it's an open secret that they might be acquired. But I feel like in this scenario we all know it's been publicly announced that they are looking to sell. It's interesting that process is still happening. Reuters reported that they've already approached several companies about buying the brand, including l', Oreal, which was one of the three mentioned by Giorgio Armani along with LVMH and Esselor Luxottica. The only other information out there that I've been able to find is that no private equities have been approached at this point. I think Giorgio Armani's will stipulate it should be a company with luxury or fashion Experience. Anyway, I'll pause there. What do you think of Armani's new CEO and then kind of the state of the sale process for them?
- [17:46]
B
Yeah, I mean, the fact that Marsochi has been with Armani for 23 years now, I think just goes to show how important the kind of legacy aspect is for the brand and experience as well. So someone who understands the. The business in detail and obviously his first responsibility being selling that stake is a monumental task considering the legacy that Giorgio Armani left behind. I actually listened into the LVMH call this week and they did ask about the Armani sale. However, there was no comment from the LVMH side. So I don't think we'll be seeing any more movement around that in the near future. However, they did not rule anything out either. And so it's still possible that they are considering it from the LVMH side. I would say that if they are going to be splitting the business, which I think is one of the things that they have talked about, moving the Armani beauty side of things and possibly kind of selling that as a separate part of the business and the fashion side separately, from what I understand, the beauty side is worth more. So that might also change how that kind of ownership or the ownership deals end up being structured in if any of these three companies end up taking it.
- [19:04]
A
Yeah. Obviously LVMH is one of the preferred buyers from the will, so I'm certain they've been approached. It's interesting that they were asked about it. It makes sense that they wouldn't come in at this point, though. An interesting factor about the sale that I was reading about is who currently has controlling interests in the company. Leo Del Orco, who is Armani's head of menswear design. He has a 40% controlling stake of the company, which is the biggest. He makes him the biggest stakeholder ahead of Giorgio Armani's niece, Silvana Armani, who's the head of women's wear, and his nephew, Andrea Camarana, and the Armani foundation, which controls the rest, like 30%. So he has the largest controlling stake of the company. And also he is the new chair of the Armani Foundation. So he's like has 40% himself and he's chairing this organization that has another 30%. So he was close to Giorgio Armani and will definitely be like a huge influence on what ends up happening. He just has a lot of kind of control over the current state of the company. So I'll be interested to see, I mean, and when they announced Marzocchi taking over, like all of the quotes in the press release were from Del Orco. So, yeah, I'm interested to see where they end up and if any of the really big preferred buyers like LVMH bite or if they kind of have to go with maybe a second choice.
- [20:28]
B
Yeah, I think that the other thing is obviously that the company itself is going to be undergoing some kind of repositioning. This typically happens when the kind of founder of the house either exits or passes away. That usually means a kind of shift in how the company is investing in digital channels, in DTC expansion, because obviously Armani does have its own kind of DTC presence, but maybe it's not quite as sophisticated as some of its partners or else aggressive licensing and brand partnerships, which I think Armani has also not done as significantly before. I think some of its business is licensed out, but definitely not as many parts as maybe previously. And it's also one of those companies that still has so much ownership over its own product, maybe compared to some other luxury ones that have moved things around depending on specialism. For example, a lot of luxury brands have licensed out their eyewear to Essilol Exotica because that is something that they're kind of best at doing. So I'd see more of that happening within the Armani business, although chances are that that won't be happening until 2026, at least. Just because it takes a while for all of these details to be figured out.
- [21:47]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think that's all the time we have for the news segment of this episode. Thank you so much for being here, Zofia. Stick around after a short break and you will hear our editor in chief, Joe Manoff, talking with Ty Haney of Outdoor Voices.
- [22:09]
C
Ty, let's jump in. So, yes, you've got a big launch this week. I would love to hear all about it, but also kind of how it relates to, to your most recent launch, which I say equestrian, a kind of horse girl style. Tell me about like kind of your. Your take your trajectory in terms of rolling out collections. How do you see that?
- [22:29]
D
Yeah, of course it's been fun to re engage with Outdoor Voices. Our first collection came out in August and I've spent the last year essentially assembling the team and reconnecting kind of to my original vision, which in a lot of ways is exactly the same. So really our vision with Outdoor Voices since day one and then today as well, is to build the number one recreation brand and recreation being activity you do for the Fun of it with a smile on your face. With friends with animals. There's many flavors of activities that to me fall within the umbrella of recreation, and equestrian is one of those. And so, yes, we launched the OV Equestrian collection a few weeks ago. It's very personal and near and dear to me. I grew up riding horses, loved the barn, would go before school, mocking the stalls. It's like meditation and therapy and hard work and it was the coolest thing ever. And then a year ago, started riding again after a really long sabbatical. And so very fun to kind of work on product for real riders, both in the English and western disciplines. Because ultimately it's an activity that I'm obsessed with and very much falls within kind of what I view as this world building under the recreation kind of mandate.
- [23:50]
C
I love that. And this will not be like a limited edition collection like these. These focuses will stick around. There'll be something for the horse rider and there will be something for the hiker. These things will stick around.
- [24:03]
D
Yeah, we have, I think like we have so much fun with these little activity specific capsules. The ride pant, which is what I ride in every day. And it's the English version of what you as a horse girl wear sold out very quickly. So I was a little like, let's see if the horse girls care and are out there. But there was a lot of evidence that they are. And so we will definitely be continuing some of those key styles in new colorways and for the seasons. But in looking back kind of at OV history, I think we've always taken a pretty differentiated approach to activities that may not feel like prime time sports network activities. So for instance, early innings, we merchandised a collection by OV dog walking. And I remember on Reddit there was an explosion. People could not believe that this was real. And so we've always kind of leaned into zigging another zag. And again, this term, this, this word recreation continues to feel so ownable to me.
- [25:09]
C
Yes. Well, this podcast will be out by the time this collection rolls out. For hiking. I keep talking about like, if I was more of an entrepreneur, I was like, there's not really a brand that's like the walking brand. But when you say hiking, are you picture it's more like, is it more like a gorp core kind of more like all terrain, like get out there in the wilderness or is it like walking walking gear combination?
- [25:34]
D
It supports both. I mean, I'm looking out my window, I'm in Boulder, Colorado, and the flatirons which is where I grew up are like right here. And so hiking and like getting up the hill on a daily basis is just the way that I grew up. And being kind of in this town also just is very hike centric. And so I have friends who have taken the hike collection and gone rock climbing. Some of the creators that we've worked with have gone to Switzerland. So it's really about technical products that works well outdoors and then kind of playing into a number of these kind of hero hiking type styles and updating them. Like hiking pants. The zip off we have, we have a hiking pants with kind of three zip offable moments that you can make into shorts. And so we've had fun kind of tapping into or paying homage to let's say kind of more like REI or kind of Patagonia type styles, but bringing them into a world that feels maybe a bit more youthful and kind of feminine.
- [26:39]
B
Yeah.
- [26:39]
C
You pointed to your original vision. I have to ask, like, you've been busy creating other brands, other businesses, but like, how, how did you, when it came to like, watching the brand from afar, like, did you follow what was happening? What, what were your thoughts in terms of like, probably what drew you back to the brand? But, like, what were your thoughts while you were away? Like, did it stick to your vision?
- [27:02]
D
I didn't pay attention and I worked hard to like create distance and really immerse myself in, in building kind of new companies. That's what I love to do. Going from zero to, to one and beyond. I'd say my initial departure was way sooner than I intended. And as a founder that's building something, it's like your baby. It was very difficult to actually walk away. And so there was kind of a large moment out there in the press, et cetera, in terms of when I exited. I quickly rejoined when the board came to me and said, you should still be here. But it wasn't really in a role that that made sense for me. And so I ended up leaving for good and then five years later was very excited, kind of with the right partners in place to really step into kind of chapter two.
- [27:54]
C
Yes, there was some messaging and I don't know if it's on social or on your website. And it had to do with kind of retaining some of the heritage or what people know and love about outdoor voices, but also kind of like evolving. I would love to hear from you about, like, what in your eyes, like, has stayed pretty consistent with your original vision with now and what's entirely new. Like, we want to do it like we kind of, kind of some lessons learned and we're going to do it things differently.
- [28:21]
D
In a lot of ways, it's very similar to our original playbook. I think the model of the time in the first inning of Outdoor Voices really put pressure on the business. And so we started at kind of the beginning of this direct to consumer wave where brands and businesses were raising all of this capital, but then that meant they had to grow at all costs. And in a physical inventory business, particularly for a CEO that's starting this at 23 and a young team, there's a lot that can become tricky when everything has that massive pressure to grow at all costs around it. And so I'd say the model and honestly, I don't think we've seen all that many excellent cases that that model really worked for founders in particular.
- [29:06]
B
Yes.
- [29:07]
D
So as I think about the business and brand today, it's actually really just tapping back into kind of our origin and what people very much fell in love with. Day one technical product for recreation. And I'd say this, I don't know, sensibility just or taste that feel that really prioritizes activity for the fun of it and freeing fitness from performance and joyfulness through movement and celebrating sweat and endorphins make you happy. At the end of the day, it really comes down to product. And so in kind of rejoining, I definitely wanted to reactivate kind of our original superfan or base, which would be more of like a millennial woman like myself, but also start to introduce the brand and this doing things philosophy to a younger generation. And so it's less to me about like, we're here for Gen Z and more about this tapping into this doing things in recreation mindset for people who maybe don't as much resonate with the intense kind of athlete performance at all costs type brands that exist and really find resonance with the doing things philosophy.
- [30:16]
C
Yes, it makes good sense. So I was going to ask that the demos that you're looking at when it comes to attracting a newer audience, I mean, activewear, recreation wear, like when it. What is maybe a new audience or a younger audience looking for that may be different. I hear a lot about whether or not leggings are in and like the kind of more like roomy, baggy silhouettes are kind of taking over. I don't know if that's true. I see everyone in leggings. But anyway, we'd love to get your take on the evolution of athleisure and activewear with this go.
- [30:49]
D
I feel so Much more like free to outfit the entire recreational lifestyle. Whereas starting when I was younger, I just remember almost needing to prove ourselves as technical product for real activity. And so in a lot of ways we were the first to do the kit like the crop top and the two tone legging and sell it kind of as that kit. We've seen that kind of all over the place since. But really I'd say the difference is we're expanding into this much kind of more creative and kind of like free zone. And it's certainly true that there's just a sea of sameness in terms of stretchy top and bottom outfits. And I think in particular this younger generation is kind of attracting to kind of more ability to express them, have self expression and kind of be creative and put an outfit together that just doesn't look like everyone else. And so we've really focused on providing that both kind of with our core product and then with the activity specific products. And you'll see. Well actually in this last drop, a lot of the bottoms are what you would call technical bottoms. Like what are you doing, the activity in the cowgirl jean, the ride pant. Like it really allows you to get out of just legging zone. And then with this hike capsule. Similarly there's some like straighter leg bottoms, the zip pants that really tap into the success of our rep truck bottoms in the past. But, but have a really kind of nice detail down the side. You'll see great. So we're having so much fun with kind of just differentiated non legging bottoms. And I am really refreshed kind of with that, that being kind of where the world's going.
- [32:36]
C
Nice. Well, speaking of where the world's going and like trends, I just, we just came from fashion week and obviously fashion month is still going on and there was a lot of talk about the lack of color. And I know that brands are more so like a lot of brands playing it safe, whereas they don't maybe want to do anything that the customer, customer may read as like trendy or not a classic that they can wear for years on end. Like what's your take on color? Seeing as you're known for like color block leggings. Like does your customer demand that?
- [33:05]
D
Right now our experience is completely in contrast to that. And I think the cool thing about being a sportswear or activewear brand to me is it's definitely about excellent product, but then it's about activation in that product. And so color is so important as you think about energy and kind of moving. And again Our mission is to get the world moving and be this inspiration for people to do so. We've always had a really strong color sensibility, and so in the collections to date, and then with hike, color is such a core kind of aspect of what we do, but it all comes back to kind of the energy and, like, when you see the color, what it makes you feel insulting the senses with color. So certainly, like the dark, like the more foundational colors have. They're the bulk of the business. But what gets people in and excited and inspired are really kind of is our approach to color.
- [34:04]
B
Yes.
- [34:05]
C
Well, obviously with. With Tyb, you have a lot of. Anyway, you have a lot of experience with communities. Building communities is that I wanted to tie that to, like, logos. Like, I know when you came out with your first collection and there was the large, like, doing things like messaging on a hoodie, and we talk about, like, quiet luxury and luxury and all these things. But, like, regardless, like, does. Does the customer also want a logo? They want to say, you know, I'm wearing outdoor voices. I identify with this community.
- [34:35]
D
I think it's about the various ingredients and ingredients I'm referring to, like, the products. So the diamante doing things hoodie like that with a more. Less logoed or subtle pant is like a perfect way to outfit. So I think as people kind of design their own recipe of outdoor Voices pieces, we want them to be able to kind of have this full spectrum of the experience. And so there's the more razzle dazzle or kind of branded moments, and then there's the quieter kind of basics. And I think it gets interesting as people kind of make their own with those various pieces. But in the past, we were very minimal from a branding perspective. And I think maybe it comes with just experience or maturity or just the sign of the times. Like, it's so fun to now have opportunity to kind of like, more loudly put outdoor voices on product. So I'd say, like, tasteful kind of in our approach there, but definitely more open to kind of more branding than in the past.
- [35:35]
C
Yeah. So interesting. Who do you consider your competitors today?
- [35:40]
D
I don't really think about it that way. I think, like, what we're up against is, like, inertia in a sense, and people, like, not wanting to move. The more people we can get moving and kind of like feeling the change of chemistry when you move, the better off we are. I also think of the space almost like pop stars. Like, there's different flavors of fandom around pop stars and their styles. And I Think like to me what, what excites me is I can see this like billion dollar path to a recreation brand with outdoor voices that, that can look and feel like so much us. And so I think less about competitors in terms of other brands and businesses in this space and just more about the kind of like negative things in society that are keeping, keeping people from moving and being outdoors and engaging and wearing our product.
- [36:30]
C
Well, speaking of competitors or pop stars, like we're talking at a time when a potential competitor, Nike Skims just came out. It just had a lot of buzz. They also, I mean, a lot of matching tight top, tight pants. But yeah, like, do you see that, where do you see that as kind of fitting in your, your world, your landscape as a competitor? Or is it, I don't know, does your shopper shop Nike skims as well?
- [36:58]
D
I'm not convinced of that. I think based on the assortment that I saw, it feels like an expansion of what skims has done well. So I think like from a consistency standpoint, it does make sense. It's definitely, I think appealing to maybe someone who like, wants to like, sex appeal is important where to me that's not so high on the list. It's like I'm more focused on the activity and cool technical pieces that feel right to me as an individual. So I think again, back to the pop star thing, there's definitely a lane for that and I think for Nike it's a good grab. I'm excited. I think collectively the more brands that can get people moving, that's, that's beneficial for us all.
- [37:49]
C
You're two months in, I guess, like, so like anything, any surprises? Like, are things panning out as you thought? Are you finding out new, something new about your customer that you're like, oh, it wasn't like this a couple of years back.
- [38:02]
D
I think I've been mostly just overwhelmed by the response. Like after five years you'd think like people have fully moved on. But it's been quite awesome just to see the emotional connection people have felt with the brand and the ability to kind of like reactivate that with tools like Tyb. So that, that definitely stands out. I have been working on the product for over a year now, so it's, it is starting to feel like home again.
- [38:31]
B
Nice.
- [38:32]
D
And really like for me personally, it's a fun, creative outlet kind of next to my other businesses. I spent more than eight years like deeply in the weeds obsessing over what this would become. And so it's quite, I don't know if it's flow state, but it's fun.
- [38:48]
B
Yeah.
- [38:48]
C
Any products like the tennis dress or other of years past like standing out as heroes yet?
- [38:55]
D
I mean, yes. We're just off equestrian which has been amazingly successful, which is awesome. So just excited to see that people like when we take a bit of a risk and go very activity specific. We'll continue to do that. The Boulder dress just launched, which is like the exercise dress when we first came out with that was. Was such a hit and I think we. It's still a very strong seller for us. We've really focused on expanding that franchise. So we introduced the energy dress, which was a different style of the exercise dress in the first collection. That sold out very quickly. It's now back. And then the Boulder dress is a rec fleece, almost like polar fleece, long sleeve version of the exercise dress meant for colder weather and so very cool to be able to continue kind of building equity and kind of the exercise dress as a franchise and making it work for various seasons.
- [39:48]
C
So smart. You talked about your other brands. Are you linking your other companies? Does it pay off to do so or better to keep them really separated.
- [39:57]
D
Divided in terms of how the companies are structured. They're each kind of individual entities with their own investors and teams. That said, they're very compatible and synergistic in terms of the world building around Recreation Tyb, which is a community engagement and rewards tool. We work with many of the top consumer brands to engage their superfans. It's ultimately the engine around kind of this relaunch. And so it's the tool that first go of After Voices I wish I had. It allows brands to directly incentivize their fans for taking valuable action and ultimately helps brands grow the value of those superfans. And so it's at the core, it's our engine. And then Joggy our, our organic energy brand fits perfectly into the lifestyle. And so you'll see it across the site. We've created certain styles in joggy green which a lot of people have fallen in love with. And then it's part of being active. It's. You know, ultimately it's much better than drinking a Red Bull. So jogging organic energy just naturally fits in there.
- [41:03]
C
What, what's challenging you right now kind of as you think about your next era? Obviously you have like a new partner in consortium and maybe that's alleviated some of the challenges of the past. You tell me. But yeah, when it comes to kind of like I'm trying to crack this, this right now, figure this out.
- [41:19]
D
I think just anytime with new partners, you're figuring out how to execute together. That's what we're stepping into. I'm not the CEO, though. In a lot of ways, I am leading what we do here. I have been very, I'd say, grateful for kind of the partnership so far, and a number of the original OV team members are still on the team. So it's been rather straightforward to kind of reassemble. What else would I say? I think the most challenging part is just I've got a lot going on, and so running three businesses at once is very nuts.
- [42:00]
C
It's quite chaotic, no doubt. And to kind of maintain that creativity, like, it can't be easy again, as your time is really in demand. Like, would you say, like, maybe it's other entrepreneurs or other companies or like, where. In terms of, like, where you're sourcing inspiration or kind of keeping that creativity flowing? Like, do you have other references, like, this day and age than maybe in 2020, 2018? Like, anything interesting inspiring you? It's such a question.
- [42:29]
D
But, I mean, I'm quite. I'm lucky in that, like, a lot of the inspiration just comes from myself. So obviously, like, I'm immersed in a lot. I. I am highly curious. So I kind of push kind of on all frontiers to understand what's current from a technology standpoint, et cetera. I mean, with Outdoor Voices, it's always been pretty easy to maintain a consistent North Star because I'm designing product for myself, and so it's my personal taste, and I'm lucky that people like it also. But no, I don't have, like, I admire very much kind of just seeing all these women build strong businesses. I get to work with all these different founders and brands across Tyb and see really the obsession of their community around brands that they've created. And I think that's what I'm finding inspiration in today.
- [43:32]
C
There are a lot of entrepreneurs, budding founders that listen to this podcast, like, would love to hear. I mean, you'd have to run down a complete, like, day in the life. But, like, when it comes to balancing all those things, I'm sure part of that balance is hiring people you trust to be your partners. But, like, tell me about some of your time management as you're. How you're. How you're pulling all of this off.
- [43:56]
D
I'd say the number one thing is, like, insane prioritization. And just like, something I've always been good at and then mastered in a lot of ways is just like, Understanding at all times what the most important thing for me to spend my time doing is. And then the second and third contender. And so that list is obviously kind of updating in real time. But really, for me, I always think the future's not up for grabs. We've set the course. It's all about execution. And so being highly prioritized and then certainly being able to recruit and assess and then keep excellent talent is ultimately how we make this work. I mean, at the end of the day, urgency and creating urgency within my teams is ultimately one of my main roles, and I'm quite good at that. I very much believe compression of time creates value. So make a decision, test it, learn, and then adjust from there. And so as I think about kind of like young Thai or anyone wanting to start a. A business, like learning quickly, making adjustments, testing learning quickly, and making that loop quite quick is something that has proved to be very valuable for across all companies.
- [45:09]
C
Yes. On the notion of powerful women in business, like you talked about and budding ties, would you say that? I don't know. The entrepreneurial landscape, is it friendlier to women right now? If had you started the business now, would you have had a different path or. I don't know, are things pretty consistent with it? I don't know. Like, we got, like, the girl boss era, and there was so much backlash, and then there was. There's always an era.
- [45:36]
D
Yeah.
- [45:36]
B
I think.
- [45:37]
D
I mean, in. In reality, it's harder than ever to start a brand and make that or it's easier than ever to start a brand and harder than ever to make it successful, just by nature of Shopify, et cetera. And so I think there's challenges kind of with each of these eras. I think I'm hopeful that with a number of us that essentially were part of this, like, female founder takedown era, seeing us reconnect to our original visions and kind of be back in the companies that we started will hopefully create a wake of new interest from female founders that might have been turned off by kind of this cancel culture moment. And so, at the end of the day, now being I'd consider myself a seasoned CEO, I just think a big part of this is normalizing challenges. There's 100 challenges a day, kind of when you're running a business and business is a bitch, so that's just what you're signing up for. But there's certainly a lot that allows that to pay off.
- [46:46]
C
Absolutely. Well, you've got a hiking collection coming up. What more can we expect? What's next for the brand?
- [46:52]
D
Yeah, of course. There's a consistent drumbeat of activity and concept kind of capsules that come out every four to six weeks. Really, it's all about momentum. And I consider the last five years of Outdoor Voices as it being somewhat dormant. And so you'll start to hear and see a lot from us as we start to push this boulder back up the hill within. Within kind of this North Star of Recreation.
- [47:19]
C
Yes. Is holiday like historically as Q4 been the biggest sales period, do you expect the same to continue for this, this era?
- [47:29]
D
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think Q4 for anyone in retail, it's. It's off to the races. So we're stepping right into that excitingly.
- [47:37]
C
Off to the races equestrian collection. Anyway, amazing. Ty, thanks so much for being here. This is. This was so fun.
- [47:45]
D
Of course. Thanks for having me.
- [47:51]
C
That's all for this episode. Our theme music is by Otis McDonald. If you liked this episode, be sure to share it with someone else you think would. Thanks for listening to the glossy podcast.