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- [00:05]
Danny Parisi
Hello, and welcome back to the Glossy Week in Review podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I am joined today by a guest host. I'm very excited to have Alison branger, who's the CMO of LaunchMetrics. LaunchMetrics, probably most people listening to this have heard of them. It's a marketing platform, data analytics service focused specifically for fashion and lifestyle brands. They publish lots of useful data around all sorts of fashion and beauty topics. I have made use of and talked to many people from LaunchMetrics, including Alison, over the years. They're very knowledgeable about fashion stuff. And Alison, in particular has a very deep background in the industry. She's worked at Net A Porter. She's worked at IMG Fashion. She helped set a lot of these sort of digital standards around Fashion Week that is still used today. And with Fashion Month just wrapping up, I thought Alison was a perfect person to have on to talk about some of the data, some of the interesting trends that came out of this month. LaunchMetrics released some very useful data on New York, London and Milan. I believe Paris data is still being kind of analyzed at the moment. But I'm very happy to have Alison on the podcast this week. Thank you for joining, Alison.
- [01:07]
Alison Branger
Thank you so much for having me. And I love that introduction. Absolutely. I think we've been around, you know, since the beginning, since technology actually entered into Fashion Week, specifically in New York. So it's exciting to be here and to talk about what's happening and what we're seeing on the runways and off the runways.
- [01:24]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. I mean, like I said, I think probably a lot of people listening have either heard of LaunchMetrix or worked with you. If you've done a fashion show in New York, you've probably worked with LaunchMetrix at some point. Did I leave anything out of your background? I feel like you have extensive history with Fashion Week and fashion in General. Even before LaunchMetrix.
- [01:41]
Alison Branger
Yeah. No, I think it's told my story perfectly of where I've been and how I landed here at LaunchMetrix.
- [01:48]
Danny Parisi
Great. Well, thank you again for being here. I wanted to talk about some of the interesting things you guys released over the last couple weeks. After New York and then London and then Milan. We can also talk just about the month as a whole. And I think the perennial question I always hear, and I always talk with my editor about is just like, is it worth it? It's a lot of work to do a fashion show. You guys do a great job, I think, of calculating the value that brands get out of it. But what's your take on that question of whether brands should. Should do a show? What makes it worth it? What value do they get out of it? All of that.
- [02:21]
Alison Branger
Yeah. So it's really interesting. We get that question a lot as well too, because it does cost a lot of money. And I think especially in the current economic climate, brands are really trying to decipher like an arbitrary where do I invest? Do I invest in a fashion show? Do I do a pop up, Do I do an influencer collaboration? What's going to be the best roi? I mean, the truth is, if you look at someone's PR strategy and how they're delivering media impact value, which is our KPI of brand performance, buzz, virality, there is no equivalent to your fashion show month versus an average month of PR strategy. On average, brands are generating a tremendous amount and sometimes it's up to like 200% more in media impact value in that month that they show. And we also see a really long tail impact because you have to remember you have your fashion show, you get a ton of press coverage from showing that season, but then that coverage almost continues and perpetuates. So the next season before Fashion Week, you should know this, Dani. You're writing about what happened last season and during the year too. When people are talking about different brands or their collection coming out, people are always referencing the fashion show. So I think for the medium and large size brands, there's no question if you should or shouldn't be on the calendar. It's kind of part of your marketing obligation to continue that for the positioning of your brand.
- [03:52]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, I think that's a great way to put it. And from a journalist perspective, it's a time where I learn about lots of new brands. A lot of times there's brands that I haven't heard of or I've sort of heard of them kind of on the periphery, but it's my first time really seeing them. And I'm always trying to like, you know, learn about who are the interesting new fashion brands. But for me, Fashion Week is always a time to I get invited to shows and I'll actually go. If I get invited in the middle of the, you know, in between fashion months off calendar, I might not go, but if it's during the week, I probably will. So I feel like it's a great way to introduce yourself to lots of, you know, media, lots of influencers, lots of the people that you want to be in front of. Like I said, we can talk about Individual weeks and then the month as a whole. I do want to ask a couple specific questions about New York. Obviously I'm based in New York and I'm biased because that's the one I go to the most. And I also love New York City. But I was looking through some of the data you guys had around New York and it seemed like a couple of things jumped out to me. It was a pretty even split between you track on calendar events and on schedule events and off schedule events, people who show outside of the week. And it was like 51% off schedule, 49 off schedule. I think from what I saw. Is that pretty typical from what you've seen? And is New York different from the other weeks in that way?
- [05:10]
Alison Branger
I think it changes season to season overall, like New York and beyond. We've seen this season a decrease in events too. So I think that's having some impact on off and on. I think also brands have been inviting less people, so I think there is more of that movement of the on schedule shows, maybe having smaller shows. So it means off schedule shows or off schedule brands have an opportunity to create or get more space. But yeah, I think New York is an interesting market. Right. Like, we're still trying to figure out the dynamics in this post IMG setting. So I guess I would say that that's probably also part of the shakeup that we're seeing there.
- [05:51]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. A lot of the designers I talked to this season lamented the loss of the days where every show was kind of contained into one place like Bryant park or Spring Studios. And now everything's kind more spread out. What do you think is the impact that has on the week and the brands?
- [06:09]
Alison Branger
It's funny, as an ex imger, I remember and I think he's not living in New York anymore. Eric Wilson used to write for the Times and we always used to go back and forth and have these stories about all the cool designers are showing off schedule or all of these designers are showing on schedule. And it was always trying to figure out, you know, is it better or not better to show on or off schedule? Because if you are on schedule, it meant you were contained in one space. But if you were off schedule, you could be at this cool like new hipster venue in Brooklyn or downtown when things were at Lincoln Center. And I feel like it goes in waves like designers are creative people, brands want to express their creativity through the venues that they're showing at. But on the same token, someone like you, you want to go to a lot of events. So Going up and downtown and going to Brooklyn, it's not really at the end, like, a plausible solution. And traffic, I feel like, in New York has gotten so bad that anyone thinking of doing something at Dumbo House, which is an amazing place to do a cocktail, you're never getting them back to Lincoln center in a manageable time. So I think it's a love and hate relationship with being contained in one place versus expressing your own creativity in your own venue. And I feel like it's gonna always go back and forth. There's never gonna be a What's the best solution? Because everyone. Even if the CFDA came in and said, everyone's gonna show here, we're gonna do it, and all the members agreed, you know, there's gonna be, like, those two brands that are like, no, no, no, we're so big, we'll do it ourselves. And then the next season, everyone's gonna be everywhere again.
- [07:43]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. Yeah. It would be very hard to rein people in. I mean, like you said, I ended up out in Bushwick a couple times this past New York Fashion Week, and I live in Queens, and there is no good way to get from Bushwick to Queens. Like, the G Train is horrible. But the other thing is, like, I realized when I had to trek to this venue, it was a long way from the train station, and I was like, why would they put this so far out here? And then I realized everybody else took a car except me. I was, like, the only person who took the train. But I do think there's a benefit, like you said, to not, you know, to having your own creative space, to picking your own venue. One designer told me that a lot of times, if you can book a cool venue, you don't really have to do much set dressing. Like, if you pick a beautiful place that already looks great, you don't have to invest that much in, like, making it look nice. Whereas if you're all sharing the same white room, you know, with a bunch of brands, you have to do more work to kind of make it look like your own thing. So I can see from the brand perspective why, in the pursuit of standing out and being individual, you might want to show in some unique place just.
- [08:46]
Alison Branger
To come back on the car service. That is, I think, the most ironic thing about the fashion industry. We spend, like, the other half of the year talking about, like, sustainability and making conscious decisions. And then, I mean, the bigger question, I think during COVID everyone was like, I mean, we've all tried to, like, reduce our carbon footprint. And so it's great. Like, that people aren't traveling as much for Fashion Week, and now, you know, like, physical events are really back on, like, as if Covid never happened. Of course, five years later. And I think the car shares thing is, like, it's just always laughable in that. I mean, not that I don't take, like, an Uber or taxi myself sometimes, but with these people that, like, all during COVID our message in the fashion industry was like, yeah, we can just really reduce our carbon footprint is like, we forgot about this mantra that we had five years ago.
- [09:36]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, we're all gonna take an army of black cars all over Manhattan.
- [09:41]
Alison Branger
Black cars and private jets.
- [09:43]
Danny Parisi
Yes, exactly. To go, like, 10 miles or something. I also wanted to ask. I want to spend just a little more time on New York, and then we can again, move on. But one thing that I noted from your report. So you guys have Media impact value is the metric that you use to judge sort of, like, the value that brands are getting out of New York Fashion Week or Fashion Week in general. I was looking at the brand rankings that you guys published, and there's lots of kind of classic New York Fashion Week brands. Calvin Klein and Michael Kors. I also wanted to talk about Kate a little bit because I feel like they're one of the most exciting, interesting, kind of newer brands to be in the New York space, and they're also still showing in New York, which is nice. I think some American or New York brands have moved on to, like, Paris and other places. So I don't know. Looking at the brands that performed well in New York by your metrics, did any stand out to you as, like, really doing the week well or winning in some way?
- [10:39]
Alison Branger
Yeah, I mean, I think going back to what you were saying, it was great to see Calvin Klein back on the schedule. I think they came back with a really, really strong media impact value. Of course, Michael Kors always. I mean, it's funny seeing them number one, owned media. Like, they do such a good job season after season. They always, like, really remain strong. I think Christian Siriano is one of the other brands that goes, like, in and out of the top 10. So he's done a good job of kind of, like, keeping his. His positioning. But I guess I would say overall in the U.S. for those top 20 players, I don't think I felt like there was any big surprises. Obviously, you spoke about. I think that's one of the ones that is, like, really growing, and I think they have, like, that edge that everyone's looking for that Freshness. But besides that, I think, like, what we're seeing in the US is quite reminiscent of what we should be seeing in the US for these, these brands. I guess when I look deeper into the data, I think what's most interesting about the US is kind of like this flip flop we've seen of US driven medium pack value. What I mean by that is thinking back to, okay, this time last year, if we looked at apac, influencers are really driving a ton of media impact value for all of the fashion weeks. But if we looked at the New York split, it was something like 70, 30, like 70% was coming from the APAC voice and then 30% was coming from the US voice. And this year it's like completely flip flopped. And now like 70% is coming from like US influencers, brand ambassadors, celebrities, and then the rest is coming from APAC compared to last year. And for me, I guess that was really, really interesting.
- [12:34]
Danny Parisi
It is interesting, especially looking at some of the data that you released. London, it seems like, has a pretty strong presence of, you know, Chinese or South Korean influencers and celebrities and media. I saw that was a pretty significant portion of the voice. I think share of voice is the metric you guys use for London Fashion Week. Yeah, I don't know what to make of that disparity or why New York is kind of flipping like that. I mean, how would you compare the different weeks in terms of like the representation of APAC media?
- [13:07]
Alison Branger
Yeah, I guess, yeah, that's a really good point to raise. If I think about it, it's like as you go further east, it almost like starts to change, kind of like a rainbow. But I think in London and Milan, we saw also a quite different strategy beyond just like the APAC influencer. We saw that the brands in those markets were really trying to sync up with cultural moments to create more buzz. So obviously like here in London, one of the biggest kind of, let's say viral moments was the Harris Reid show, right, with Florence Puy. I always, you know, you asked me how, like, how do French people say your neighbors? How do American people say your name? I feel like now when I have like these two pronunciations, when I see a name that's like, it sounds very Frenchy, but then am I being an American just trying to be Frenchy?
- [13:59]
Danny Parisi
But it's also hard to switch from like doing an American accent and then one word in like a proper French pronunciation and then right back.
- [14:08]
Alison Branger
But yeah, I go through that with your. Now that I live in London, I go through it all the time with my friends that speak multiple languages, when I, like, say roho, and they're like, it's Rojo. And I was like, I know, but as an American, it sounds weird. They're like, but that is how it's pronounced.
- [14:22]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, yeah.
- [14:23]
Alison Branger
So same Florence Puy. And that was, like, a really big moment for the brand. And actually, because of that, the brand almost doubled its median pack value from last year. I do think. Yes, of course, there's the fraction of brands that are tapping into those APAC influencers. And we should definitely spend a few minutes talking about China because it is interesting to see what's going on and the value being driven by China. But I think there's a slice and dice in each market. The US it's this rise of US Voices. Maybe that's also just a feeling of sentiment happening across the US Holistically outside of fashion as well. Right. This whole, like, American first vibe going on, whether people disagree or not, politics is another podcast for another day. Yeah, Maybe that's what's happening there. And then, as I said, too, like, I think these cultural moments are another trend that we really saw coming up. I think, like, that collaboration, like I said, between Florence and Harris Reed was huge, and it really pushed the brand into the top 10. But fall, winter 25, they ranked second. So I think it really shows how collaborating with the right voice at the right time, creating that cultural relevance is super important. And then in Milan, again with that same vibe, I think the Dochi performance at D Squared was incredible, and that really captured everyone's attention, and I think we've seen that a few times. We saw Machine Gun Kelly with Dolce Gabbana a few years ago, and that really helped garner a lot of media impact value when that happened. And because of this, too, D Squared increased their media impact value 60 times.
- [16:05]
Danny Parisi
They were in number five. Number five spot for Milan, I think.
- [16:09]
Alison Branger
Yeah, exactly. That's where they ended out in that final data. So it just shows, too, that I think the takeaway that we would kind of sum this up as is that brands are trying to stop thinking about Fashion Week as this insular fashion moment. And that's probably actually what happened in the US Too. We're trying to capture American consumers. Let's use those voices that influence American consumers. For American brands in Europe, it's about how do we speak to potential customers outside of cool editors like yourself attending Fashion Week, because these events have to serve multiple purposes. And that goes back to your first question. Should I do it or should I Not do it. Should I be on schedule? Should I not? It's a lot of money, so I need to make sure I'm getting my money's worth. And maybe it means like it doesn't need to be a big model that only fashion people know opening, but it needs to be someone like Dochi that's going to really, you know, give me the bang for my buck that I need.
- [17:06]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. And Dochi at D Squared is such a great example. I was thinking about like it's the perfect moment to have her like perform at your show. Like she just had that incredible Grammys performance like a couple of weeks ago that was like super viral. And especially in high end fashion, your whole thing is sort of setting trends and then also kind of being really in touch with what's cool and what's in right now. So I feel like if you can nail the timing of getting a very rising star person at just the right swell of their career, that feels like that. And then like you said, you could see the 60 times impact. That's a big testament to Dochi obviously having like a really great moment. But also D Squared, like picking the right person at just the right time, you know, which is something I think like a fashion brand needs to be able to do.
- [17:57]
Alison Branger
I think they need to be able to do it. And I think some brands like are nimble enough to be able or agile enough to say like, this is hot, we have to get on this now. Whereas you look at some of the really big brands and they're like, we've been planning our show for six months, we can't like change anything. Whereas I think obviously like Dean and the guys at D Squared, I can't speak directly to their strategy, but I know from working with the teams over the years they are much more agile and I think they, whether this was planned ahead or not, I think they definitely are always trying to keep their finger on the pulse. And I'm sure they were more than happy to kind of adjust to be right place, right time.
- [18:35]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, well, like you said, it worked out really well for them. Also, I saw, I think it was in Milan, the number one post that you guys sort of tracked was a Gucci post with Jin from bts. And it feels like K pop groups and stars still have such like immense kind of brand power. I feel like I'm constantly seeing promotions and faces of campaigns from the K pop world, which is like, I have nothing against K pop, but I kind of just haven't listened that much. So a lot of these People are like total, I know mostly from like fashion collaborations rather than their music. But it feels like that still has a huge, you know, there's a huge, well there for fashion brands to draw from.
- [19:13]
Alison Branger
Yeah, absolutely. And I think actually like most of the European shows, if you look at like who's coming, there's always a K pop star in the front row. I think what's been really interesting is there's been this kind of flip flop, ping pong, boomerang, whatever you want to call it, that's gone. Like it was China, then it was K pop Thailand and the kind of market that we're seeing like surge again. It'll be cool to watch if we like have this conversation in six months. Is it coming back to China? So for example, coming back to New York Fashion Week, you know, China's impact creased more than three times year on year. London Fashion Week it was four times and Milan Fashion Week it was seven times. The thing that I thought was super interesting is like these Chinese platforms, so like Shangshu, so red Weibo I think actually goes by retail Weibo. They've also significantly increased their share of voice year on year. And why I think that's kind of cool is it makes me see that we had all of these like APAC stars coming to these Western events and we, I guess we're driving a bit of media impact value with the Chinese consumer. But Western events still weren't generating as much media impact value on those platforms. Right. It was like a. If you were in the know, you kind of watched this content about Fashion Week in New York, Paris, Milan, London. And now I think because it's been a few seasons that people are coming, we're starting to see this traction. So for brands I think that's super interesting because we're still like trying to tap in and sell the Chinese consumer. Right. For these luxury brands that are selling during Fashion Week, it's still a huge market. So this growth I think is really positive for us too. And I think what's interesting too is like the engagement from Chinese ambassadors. So the influencers is also rising. So I think that's just something to look out for. So I feel like K pop is starting to stabilize. As I said, I think you're going to see them like it's a must. It's a must. Have a K pop star. You're not a cool show if you don't have a K pop star. But I think seeing how we engage now with Chinese audiences and Chinese influencers, as they call key opinion Leaders is going to be key for brands in the coming year.
- [21:29]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, no, I think you're totally right. And you mentioned earlier, but this it really interesting that New York sort of has a little bit less of an international presence, more of a focus on US Media, whereas the European weeks so far have been the opposite. And I do think that reflects some sort of difference there. Maybe politically, maybe culturally, at like an insular turn versus an outward turn. One final thing I want to talk about is, like I said, I think you guys are still processing the Paris data. So I don't know if we have much Paris Fashion Week data to work with, but I noticed that Milan total impact value, that across all the brands was like $285 million, I think, which is more than New York and London combined. I think New York was 180. I think I have this right. And London was 80 million. So it seems like Milan, and I'm guessing Paris is probably more as well. And I talked with, you know, my other co host, Zofia. We talked a lot about Paris Fashion Week kind of sucking up a lot of the energy or the talent. Like Willi Chavaria showed in New York Fashion Week, and then now this season, he showed in Paris. Do you get the sense that, like, Milan and Paris are like, kind of the bigger, more prestigious kind of weeks, and New York and London are not necessarily less prestigious, but like, London, I think, has a lot of more like rising star kind of designers, whereas, like, the big, like, established legacy houses tend to show more in Paris and Milan. I mean, that's just my, like, loose take on it. Does that sound right to you?
- [22:56]
Alison Branger
Yeah, I mean, I think always. Right. If you go back to the history of one cfda, like, built seventh on sixth to kind of have this centralized Fashion Week, it was because they were seeing what was happening in Paris and Milan and this force that was going on there. I mean, those brands obviously are much older than the American brands. The productions that they build, like having your show at the Grand Palais, it definitely can compete. There's nothing in New York I can think of that can. Can compete with that, so. Absolutely. And I think over the years, we've always seen, right. That Paris and Milan just are the larger fashion weeks in terms of what they. They generate as far as media impact value. I think also, yeah, the vibe for London, it feels very London. Right. It's all about, like, I don't want to say just emerging talent, because it's kind of like all the young, hip, cool kids, right? It's. That's always like, the. The London vibe. And of course, there's big players like Burberry that. That show. But I think the vibe of London is much more about nurturing talent. And I think that's actually been a critique, too about, like, the brands in Milan and Paris. And that's why, like, the designer musical chairs is really interesting, because for so long, everyone was like, okay, well, when Carl's gone or when Armani moves on, that means, like, who are the next rising stars? And I think we're finally starting to see that. But I think obviously it's a bit of a different vibe in those markets, so nothing surprising for me, though. Like, I think the median pack value, we've always seen this kind of difference. And it's just like the sheer volume, I think, of the size of the fashion weeks and the people that show there.
- [24:33]
Danny Parisi
And like you said, a lot of the, like, quintessential, like, luxury fashion brands are French or Italian. So, like, it makes sense that that's. That's where they shell. And yeah, Burberry is another one where I was thinking, like, that is, like, the quintessential British luxury brand that I think of. There's obviously lots of other good ones. It feels like Burberry always has such a strong presence at London Fashion Week, though. And if you're in London right now, I mean, did you. Do you have any thoughts on Burberry in particular? It feels like they did really well, even though I know they've had some transition with, like, leadership and creative direction recently.
- [25:03]
Alison Branger
Yeah, I mean, they were really the anchor for London Fashion Week. It was great. I think they are really coming back into, like, who they are, and I love that. I know the team there has really thought about, like, who do we want to be? Why are we trying to be so different to where we are? And I think the kind of, like, the restructure they've been going through and kind of refocusing the show has worked out really well. They had a really strong media impact value. They had a great celebrity kind of showing and support. So I think it'll be exciting to see as they kind of get back on track, like, where they are this time next year.
- [25:42]
Danny Parisi
Yeah. And last thing I want to ask you, I won't ask you for a prediction because I feel like predictions are hard and, you know, I don't want to put that pressure on you, but is there anything for next season that you are going to be looking for? Like, not necessarily that you predict will happen, but just things you'll be Expecting or maybe like on the lookout for when you're, when you're looking through the data or when you're out at the shows.
- [26:04]
Alison Branger
Two things, two things that like keep coming up and they're just like how brands are going to think about like success or not success is, you know, we talked a lot about on this call about celebrities and influencers and these brand ambassadors and I think brands are trying to understand how do they take advantage of these voices. Right. They want to connect with their, their custom customers more. So I will say that next year I think brands are going to start to think what else can I do with this person besides bringing them just to sit front row. And I think the doji example is a great example of that. I think brands are trying to understand what does the influencer or the celebrity bring me and what's the echo beyond just what that person posts themselves. And obviously the doji effect is all the echo generating all of that kind of consumer engagement. So definitely something I think, I feel like I want to keep an eye out for of like how far brands take that. I think, you know, we've been getting asked a lot from brands. How do I measure what people think about my brand? Not just like, was it good or bad? But like when they think of D squared, what do they think of? So at LaunchMetrics, that's something we're really, really trying hard to help them understand. So I think, yeah, it'll be really interesting. I think as shows either get a little bit smaller and brands get a little bit pickier as to who gets those seats, I'm happy to know we can be a partner in that and helping them understand I have five seats, who gets them and what do I expect to get back from that? So that's kind of interesting when you think about the business of fashion shows that previously it was just a lot of pretty people sitting down to watch, you know, a 10 minute event. And now I think brands are becoming savvier to make sure they're getting the right roi.
- [27:55]
Danny Parisi
Yeah, I think that's a great way to put it. I'm thinking as an attendee, like if I see Dochi sitting in the front row, I might be like, that's cool. And text my friends about it. If they get Dochi to perform at the show, I'm like telling everybody I know that I got the show and.
- [28:08]
Alison Branger
You'Re posting videos, right?
- [28:10]
Danny Parisi
And obviously it's more expensive to get somebody to perform than to just have them sit in the front row. But like I can just imagine, like, I would tell everyone. I would take videos, I would send it to everyone I know because that would be so cool. Whereas if I saw her there, I'd just, you know. Oh, that's interesting. I'll tell my friends later. Anyway, I feel like there's a million other things we could talk about. We should do this again next season. And you guys, you know, like I said, you always have such great data around everything fashion related. So, Alison, thank you so much for joining this week. This was a really fun conversation.
- [28:41]
Alison Branger
Yeah, me too. I loved it.
- [28:42]
Danny Parisi
For those of you listening, don't forget to give us a rating and a review, whether that's on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. That helps us out a lot. Don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy podcast as well, because you'll hear interviews with industry insiders every Wednesday and weekend review episodes every Friday with me and sometimes with guests like Alison. So thank you for listening and thank you again, Alison, for being here.