Week in Review: LA's fires, True Religion's acquisition, Wolford's fulfillment problems

Summary

The Glossy Podcast: Week in Review – LA's Fires, True Religion's Acquisition, Wolford's Fulfillment Problems

Release Date: January 10, 2025

In this episode of The Glossy Podcast, host Danny Parisi and editor-in-chief Jill Manoff delve into three pressing issues affecting the fashion and luxury industries: the devastating fires in Los Angeles, the acquisition of True Religion, and the fulfillment challenges faced by luxury tights brand Wolford. Through insightful discussions and expert commentary, they explore the immediate impacts, underlying trends, and future implications for brands navigating these turbulent times.

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1. California Wildfires: Devastation and Industry Response

Overview: The episode opens with a somber discussion about the recent wildfires in California, highlighting their destructive impact on both residential areas and local businesses. Danny and Jill emphasize the broader implications for brands based in or operating within the affected regions.

Key Points:

• Immediate Impact: The wildfires have led to the destruction of homes and businesses, with reports of fatalities. Prominent figures like model Carolyn Murphy and Paris Hilton have had their homes totaled, and brands like Elise Walker have faced physical damages.

• Industry Preparedness: The hosts question the preparedness of brands for such recurring natural disasters, especially in light of increasing frequency due to climate change. They discuss the challenges brands face in supporting their teams and maintaining operations during emergencies.

• Insurance and Future Risks: Concerns are raised about the sustainability of insuring expensive properties and stores in high-risk areas. Given the soaring costs and increasing likelihood of disasters, both brands and individuals are left grappling with financial and logistical uncertainties.

Notable Quotes:

• Jill Manoff reflects on the severity:

  "It's just bananas what everyone is going through. ... I can't imagine how infuriated people are." (02:04)

• Danny underscores the inevitability of such events:

  "Natural disasters like this are not going to get less frequent. ... more storms, more floods, more hurricanes." (05:38)

Implications for Brands: The discussion highlights the urgent need for brands to develop robust disaster preparedness strategies, invest in resilient infrastructure, and reassess their insurance policies. Additionally, there is a call for higher-level interventions and resources to support affected communities and businesses.

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2. True Religion's Acquisition: Strategic Moves and Brand Evolution

Overview: The conversation transitions to the acquisition of True Religion by Akon Investments and SB360 Capital Partners. Danny and Jill analyze the strategic motivations behind the acquisition and its potential impact on the brand's trajectory.

Key Points:

• Acquisition Details: True Religion was acquired by Akon Investments (unrelated to the singer Akon) and SB360, which is connected to American Eagle through its CEO. This move follows True Religion's emergence from bankruptcy in 2020 and a subsequent sales increase.

• Brand Performance: Since exiting bankruptcy, True Religion saw a 20% sales increase, achieving over $280 million in sales in 2023. This resurgence is attributed to strategic pricing adjustments and capitalizing on the Y2K trend.

• Future Plans: The new ownership aims to expand globally, diversify product offerings, and shift towards more direct online sales while reducing reliance on wholesale channels. Additionally, there is a focus on targeting a broader female demographic, leveraging collaborations with pop culture icons like Megan Thee Stallion.

• Sustainability Beyond Trends: Danny raises concerns about the brand’s ability to sustain growth beyond current trends, emphasizing the importance of building a resilient brand that can thrive irrespective of fluctuating fashion trends.

Notable Quotes:

• Jill praises the strategic insight of the acquiring group:

  "They have an interesting background because they don't really do a lot of apparel stuff they own. ... [Jay Schottenstein] knows what he's doing." (10:56)

• Danny questions the longevity of trend-dependent success:

  "I don't want a company that can only survive in the most favorable conditions. ... it should be viable whether the trend is in or out." (14:07)

Implications for True Religion: The acquisition presents an opportunity for True Religion to leverage the expertise and resources of its new owners to solidify its market position. However, the brand must navigate the challenges of maintaining relevance and profitability beyond transient fashion trends.

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3. Wolford's Fulfillment Challenges: Navigating Logistical Hurdles in a Competitive Market

Overview: The final segment addresses the severe fulfillment issues faced by Wolford, a renowned luxury tights brand. Danny and Jill explore the root causes of these delays and their broader implications in the context of evolving consumer expectations and heightened competition.

Key Points:

• Fulfillment Delays: Wolford has been experiencing months-long delays in order fulfillment, particularly affecting holiday orders from November. These issues stem from a problematic switch to a new logistics provider, resulting in a 27% drop in sales as reported in their last earnings.

• Competitive Pressure: The luxury tights market has become increasingly crowded with brands like Skims, Commando, and Fabletics offering similar products with more efficient delivery systems. This heightened competition exacerbates Wolford's struggles to maintain its market share.

• Shipping Industry Challenges: The hosts discuss broader shipping and logistics challenges, including potential strikes on the East Coast ports and ongoing disruptions on the West Coast due to natural disasters. These factors contribute to congestion, increased costs, and unpredictable delivery times, affecting brands’ ability to meet customer expectations.

• Consumer Expectations: The rise of e-commerce has conditioned consumers to expect rapid, often next-day, deliveries. Delays not only frustrate customers but also harm brand reputation and loyalty.

Notable Quotes:

• Danny expresses frustration over Wolford's logistical issues:

  "I was like, what the hell is going on over there. ... what in the world is happening here?" (15:39)

• Jill highlights the competitive landscape:

  "Skims, they've got competition from Commando ... so I think there's a lot of competition now and I don't know if they have the cachet they once had." (16:01)

Implications for Wolford and the Industry: Wolford's fulfillment problems underscore the critical importance of reliable logistics in the fashion and luxury sectors. As consumer expectations for swift and seamless delivery continue to rise, brands must prioritize robust supply chain management and strategic partnerships with logistics providers. Additionally, the fragmentation and unpredictability of the shipping industry require brands to adopt flexible and resilient fulfillment strategies to mitigate disruptions.

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Conclusion

Danny Parisi and Jill Manoff provide a comprehensive analysis of the multifaceted challenges facing the fashion and luxury industries in this week's episode of The Glossy Podcast. From natural disasters threatening the very foundations of brand operations to strategic acquisitions reshaping market dynamics, and logistical nightmares disrupting customer satisfaction, the episode underscores the complex interplay between external factors and business resilience. As the industry continues to evolve amidst environmental, economic, and competitive pressures, the insights shared offer valuable guidance for brands striving to navigate these turbulent times.

Upcoming Highlight: The episode concludes with a teaser for the next week’s guest, President Joyce F. Brown of FIT, who will discuss fashion’s evolving direction and its future trajectory.

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Notable Mentions:

• NRF Conference: Danny mentions preparing for the upcoming NRF conference, inviting listeners to connect if they are attending.

• Upcoming Episodes: The team encourages listeners to rate and review the podcast on platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify to enhance visibility and recommendations.

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For more in-depth discussions and industry insights, subscribe to The Glossy Podcast and stay updated with the latest trends and challenges in the fashion and luxury sectors.

Transcript

[Danny Parisi]

Hello and welcome back to the Glossy Week in Review podcast. I'm your host, senior fashion reporter Danny Parisi, and I'm here with our editor in chief, Jill Manoff. Hello, Jill.

[Jill Manoff]

Good morning. How are ya?

[Danny Parisi]

I'm doing well. I'm preparing for NRF this weekend, which I think you will be in town in New York City for as well. If anyone listening will be at NRF and would like to meet up, I will be there. This week we'll be talking about the fires in California, which are just horrifying. And let me start by saying I hope everyone listening to this on that side of the country is safe. We will talk about some of the stores and businesses that have been damaged and what kind of preparations brands can do for future disasters like this, if any. Later we will talk about true religion being acquired, sort of about their situation and what their plans are with their new management, how they're riding the Y2K trend that I think has elevated them. And finally we will talk about the luxury tights brand Wolford, which has had some serious problems around delays and order fulfillment. And we will talk a little bit about just how difficult and how much of a headache shipping and returns and that whole world is and what other brands can learn from it, which I know is a huge pain for everyone. Let's start by talking about the fires in California. So probably most people listening have heard about it already, but they're pretty disastrous fires. This week we have one of our reporters on the west coast had to evacuate our home. I've seen lots of reports and posts and footage from homes destroyed and businesses destroyed. A few people have died. It's pretty horrible and very much impacts our world since so many of the brands and people we talk to are based there. So like the glossy network of, you know, the brands and the founders that we are often talking to. I'm seeing so many people posting about evacuating their homes, evacuating their offices, stores destroyed, all that kind of stuff. It's really, really bad. So I hope everyone who is out there is safe. But it's just crazy. Have you seen or heard anything from the people you're talking to, Joel?

[Jill Manoff]

Yeah, not talking to, but yeah, following it on social media, gosh, it feels almost, I don't think, insensitive to talk about it, but it's such a, like, I feel like we cannot put ourselves in these people's shoes. It's just bananas what everyone is going through. But yeah, some of those that I follow, Carolyn Murphy, the model, her home was totaled and Paris Hilton as well. And like Molly Sims with wise beauty, she posted, they don't know what the fate of their home is, but all of their, some of their neighbors and friends have lost their homes. And the word on the street is like it's just getting started. And I don't know if that's changed. Things are being updated left and right, but it's like the dry weather and the continued winds and lack of resources and water and I'm not a politician, but what's going on? There are fires in, in LA all the time. My brother has lived there for 20 years and always evacuated because of fires. And anyway, the fact that there was a pulling back of resources is mind blowing and I feel like I am infuriated and I just can't imagine how infuriated people are.

[Danny Parisi]

Yeah, I mean, like you said, it's not unexpected. Like California has wildfires. It happens all the time. So it is surprising to me that there's feels like a little bit of scrambling happening. But yeah, there's a lot of stores were destroyed along Sunset Boulevard. Our former colleague Liz Flora at Business of Fashion wrote about some of the stores that have been damaged. I think she's also based on the West Coast. I was talking to a source earlier this week who's based in LA and we were talking about a totally unrelated topic and during the interview he was like, I can see an active, like I can see flames from my upstairs window. Throughout this week I've been talking to people and then, and a lot of times I'm talking to people on the west coast and just in the background they're like, oh yeah, there's like a fire happening right outside my house as we're talking. So it's wild. And this person I was talking to, their company is based in la. They don't have stores there, but they have an office there. And they just sent everybody home. They were like very in office type of culture. But they were like, for the foreseeable future, everybody just go home. Because I think their office was not damaged but in the path and potentially damage. So I'm sure for a lot of California brands there's, even if you don't have stores there, there's stuff like that being considered. Like, what do we do for our employees? How do we support people? I mean, like I said, one of our teammates had to evacuate her home. I have friends on the west coast who have had to leave and pack up and go elsewhere. So I'm sure a lot of brands are dealing with how can we Support our teams.

[Jill Manoff]

Yes, I'm seeing a lot of those posts for the safety of our team, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, our stores, Calabasas and beyond are like, they're not literally within the line of fire, but they are just, just closing down. Yeah, those stories that are out there. There are reports that like the Palisades Village, everybody was really honed in on Pacific Palisades because that's where the, the largest fire where everything kind of broke out. But the mall is still standing and I'm sure there's damage. But some of those stores with people that we talk to all the time, it seems they're okay. But tbd, like favorite daughter Anina Bing Erewhon. However, stores in Palisades Village that are not within the mall that are just kind of the village in particular, like Elise Walker was destroyed. We love Elise Walker. That's like an iconic LA establishment and that's definitely like what we're talking about in our Slack channel. Like so much of what's happening is like these, this iconic history that's just, it's definitely going to reshape the city. It will always be beautiful, but man, it really hurts.

[Danny Parisi]

It does. And like a sort of morbid thought is that. And something I've been thinking about a lot is that natural disasters like this are not going to get less frequent. Like if anything they're going to become more common. Global warming and climate changes, you know, impact temperature, it impacts humidity. There will be more storms, more heat, more, you know, dry seasons. And like it's just all of this stuff and not just California. I mean, I think about this with Miami where there's also a lot of glossy adjacent businesses and people. There's going to be more storms, more floods, more hurricanes. Like it's. All of this stuff is going to increase. And one of the things I was talking about with someone earlier this week is like insurance on, on stores and homes in places like this. I mean in Palisades Village and you know, some of those areas very expensive places, some of those homes that were destroyed are like $10 million homes. Is the insurance company going to pay out on all of these super expensive homes they're going to try to get out of it. I'm sure it's going to be a lot harder to insure a big expensive store in a high risk area in the future. Again, not just California. Could be in Miami too. If you're getting a, if you want to get a big fancy store on the beach in Miami, who's going to insure that, you know. And I'm also, I'm also based in a coastal city right by the ocean, so maybe I should be thinking about this too. But that's, that's what I was thinking is like, this is. I think brands should be aware of this and people in general. And you know, like you were saying, the lack of resources available for people right now feels very silly given how expected a wildfire in the L A area is. You know, it's not like it comes out of nowhere.

[Jill Manoff]

Totally.

[Danny Parisi]

Yeah.

[Jill Manoff]

And there is that report. One of the insurance companies, like, basically dropped a lot of these folks who own homes on the coast as clients. And there's question about, like, whether people got insurance after December 31st. Otherwise, like, they're really high and dry. Like, and I'm in the Midwest and we have tornadoes and snowstorms. Like, there's always something. It's just like you can't really prepare to a T what's to come. Nobody can prepare. I feel like we're just here hearing about more of these crazy disasters, like more often, like you said.

[Danny Parisi]

Yeah. And it's also like, I'm not really sure what an individual business or person can do to prepare. Like just have a second home that's not in LA or whatever. It's like, that's not achievable for a lot of people. It feels like many preparation should be at the kind of higher state or federal level. Like there should be more resources and more solutions happening here. And you can't really put it on individual, like, well, you shouldn't have put your store there. Like, it's not any individual person's fault.

[Jill Manoff]

Affluent customers of the United States, like, this is where every brand wants to be. Like, yeah, it's hard.

[Danny Parisi]

Let's move on and talk about True Religion. They announced this week that they were acquired by two firms, Akon Investments, which has nothing to do with the singer Akon and SB360, which does have something to do with American Eagle because it's run by their CEO. I think it was sort of an expected move. I think my understanding of True Religion's trajectory was that they came out of bankruptcy in 2020. They'd been struggling for a little bit and then since then have had a pretty, maybe not mind blowing, but a pretty solid comeback since then. In 2023, I saw that their sales had increased like 20% from the year before. They're like over $280 million sales, which is pretty good from, you know, getting there, from being bankrupt only a few years before. And I think there were some reports last year that they wanted to sell and they were kind of on the market. So I guess it was just a little bit of. It was just a matter of time before it actually got scooped up.

[Jill Manoff]

Weren't those numbers kind of surprising? $280 million company, True Religion.

[Danny Parisi]

Yeah, I was surprised too. I was. I mean, I feel like I have not seen that many true religions out in the wild, so. But they also kind of shifted a little bit there. They lowered their prices a little like to be more on like sort of a Levi's or American Eagle type level rather than going for, I don't know, something more elevated. So maybe they're just like targeting a different customer now. But I too was surprised by those numbers.

[Jill Manoff]

Yes. One thing, like you said, there was participation from this SB360 Capital Partners Group that is with. Is it pronounced Schottenstein?

[Danny Parisi]

J. I think so. Jay Schottenstein.

[Jill Manoff]

I mean, I'm very influenced. I'm such a Todd Snyder fan. And when I interviewed him for the glossy 50, he really gave so much credit to Jay because obviously Todd Snyder is owned by American Eagle. And he was telling me like Jay was like, you need to open stores. And that wasn't even like in his mind like opening a bunch of stores. Like it just seemed really far fetched that that would be a, a successful action plan. And that's now it's amazing growth. Um, Todd Snyder has grown to be a $130 million company, um, which he owed in large part to the store expansion. And anyway he, he gave so much credit to Jay, so I feel like Jay knows what he's doing. Yeah, but how long will this kind of like Y2K fashion. I don' hot like Ed Hardy and Von Dutch. I think it made a comeback and I think that like that is partly responsible for the, the success, but also some of these cool campaigns with some of these cool hip hop folks like, like who was it? Megan.

[Danny Parisi]

The Megan Thee Stallion is their current kind of like face of the. I think it was their holiday campaign. I mean, I think you're right that I do think the Y2K thing elevated them a little bit. So these two companies is. It's interesting cause Akon, which maybe I'm not pronouncing it right, but all I can think of is Akon the singer. But Akon is.

[Jill Manoff]

I didn't even know that's a singer. I'm so out of touch. Danny, go ahead.

[Danny Parisi]

Oh, you definitely know him. He did like smack that. Wait, you should know this since you have the credit on that genuine album. I feel like it's in the same world.

[Jill Manoff]

Look it up, folks.

[Danny Parisi]

He was in that Lady Gaga song Just Dance like he's been.

[Jill Manoff]

Oh, I like that.

[Danny Parisi]

Okay, you definitely know. You definitely know. Anyway, completely has nothing to do with what we're talking about other than Akon the company. A C O N sounding like Akon the singer Akon. Anyway, but they have an interesting, like, background because they don't really do a lot of apparel stuff they own. They are invested in, like, Applebee's and like, mall kind of, which I guess is the overlap. It's like these are like mall staples, whereas SB360 is a little more apparel focused. They have involvement, obviously with American Eagle through J, but also through, like, DSW and other things, which are also kind of mall staples. So I think the through line between True Religion and these two companies is kind of the presence in malls. So, like, I wonder if they're thinking about what they want to do with True Religion in the future if that has to do with, like, increasing its presence in various shopping malls.

[Jill Manoff]

Yeah, they talked about some of the plans for. For the company moving forward as expanding globally, expanding the product offering last year. They talked about there was. There were plans for the company to operate more like, more direct sales online versus so much relying on wholesale. And they also said they wanted to reach more women, which I would think this is more popular, a more popular brand among women than men. You know, back in the day, it was like Britney and Jessica Simpson were wearing it. And now, like you said, Megan thee stallion. So I don't know even one. I don't know a guy that is wearing this, but maybe they are.

[Danny Parisi]

I knew a single guy in high school who wore True Religions religiously. That's like the only person I can think of. So maybe he's like their biggest customer. He kind of was, actually. So I like, that was a positive association I had. Anyway. Yeah, I think you're right. Also, I want to go back to the Y2K trend. I mean, I think you're right that. That definitely elevated. And also denim in general, I've heard, is like, kind of a hot category. And American Eagle is quite big there, as are some competitors like Levi's and stuff. So if I were them, if I were True Religion or either of these two companies that have now acquired it, I would be thinking, like, how can I make this brand survive and thrive after that trend kind of floats away? I mean, I've talked to some people in the fashion industry about how you don't want a company that can only survive in the most favorable conditions. Like you want a company that can survive whether the trend is in or out. You know, like it should. Ideally, you know, if it's in, that's great and you capitalize and everything. But you don't want to only be viable in a time when the, when this trend is super in because trends change super fast. So that's, that's what I would be thinking if I was them.

[Jill Manoff]

Yeah. And with like American Eagle and some of these other mall brands that have come back, you look at their website and it's almost, they're almost unrecognizable. And all I can think about when I think about true religion is that like horseshoe, see stitching on the, on the back, on the pocket with the kind of like flat pocket. These are some embellished pockets. And then also like that kind of Buddha little like label on the back. So anyway, that's all I can think of. So if they're like, if they're taking it more in an American Eagle direction, so smart, which I wouldn't doubt they are.

[Danny Parisi]

Yeah. Cool. Let's talk about our last topic, which is Wolford. There was a report in the Guardian this week about the tights brand Wolford having months long delays in fulfilling their orders. People ordering stuff back in November and still haven't received it. Like tons of like widespread complaints online, things like that. I was looking into it and I saw that they. Last year they switched to a new logistics provider and it seems like it's been completely disastrous for them because last year they had an earnings report where they said their sales were down 27% which they attributed to unexpected issues around delivery from like a new logistics partner, but that they hope to clear it up by September. And it's January now and it doesn't seem like it's been cleared up. So I'm like, what the hell is going on over there? Who did they switch to? Like the Three Stooges? It's like, it feels, feels like this switch was a really bad move. I mean, and I know that fulfillment and delivery is like so logistically complex and there's lots of difficulties around it, but I'm like, what in the world is happening here?

[Jill Manoff]

We are on the same page. When I was making my notes, I saw the same thing about their first half earnings and it was like, get it tay together. Because at this point everybody's talking about their holiday sales and this is probably their super bowl because when the heck do wear, people want to wear fancy tights if not for Christmas and New Year's? Like, yeah, that's about it.

[Danny Parisi]

Holiday parties and New Year's parties and stuff.

[Jill Manoff]

Totally. I mean, I, I don't know if this is just an excuse. They're, they're a publicly traded company. I think they have to be. Be a very honest. However, like you see the competition coming up from where I see skims ads that look just like a Wolf Wolford ad. Skims, they've got competition from Commando that had very similar products, very much more affordable and high quality. Like both of those brands make great shapewear, tights, lingerie, all the things that Wolford does. So I think there's a lot of competition now and I don't know if they have the cachet they once had. Unfortunately, it's true.

[Danny Parisi]

And then the other thing is, I think, I mean, obviously having months long delays on order fulfillment is not good. But I was thinking about how Amazon has trained everybody to expect a super frictionless, super fast delivery experience. And again, obviously months and months is not good, but I've seen even a wait of a week. People are like, oh my God, this is taking forever. Because they're used to one or two days from Amazon, which is just not doable for a lot of people and certainly not doable. You know, something we've talked about a ton is that it used to be cash was flowing everywhere and investors would float you the money to do all sorts of unprofitable things. And that's not the case anymore. So stuff like super fast delivery with free shipping and it'll be there tomorrow is like, just not, it's not doable unless you're like Amazon or something and you've built your entire infrastructure around it. So I think people need to get used to not just like unexpected delays like this Wolford thing where it's taking months, but also expected longer delivery times. Unless you want to buy everything from Amazon or Walmart, which I don't think you should do. But it's just like shipping, it takes a long time, it's slow and hard and there's not a lot of ways I think to like make it faster, especially if you're shipping internationally. That's just what I was thinking about reading about this.

[Jill Manoff]

Yeah, there's, I mean it's like the new standard Amazon and I don't know, they're killing it. I'm sure you live in an apartment building. I live in an apartment building. The number of Amazon packages, just say it's beyond. But yes, obviously Wolford is under Land Von Group that went public in December 2022. You know, still proving themselves with like a new creative director for Land Vaughn. They have a new CEO as of June I when they went public, I did have some time with Sylvia. I think it's pronounced Azali. But their former CEO, she was very with it. And when you look at some of what she was doing, it does seem that she was trying to like align the brand with pop culture and, and keep evolving it because this is around since the 1950s. So a lot of collaborations with Jonathan Simkai, Mugler, Adidas, the list goes on evolving the. The product assortment of bodysuits and jumpsuits, all the things. Named a new artistic director that's very buzzy and respected. New brand book, new store concept. I don't know. But then at the same time there were. They were closing some unprofitable stores. A lot of store closures. So rocky times.

[Danny Parisi]

Yeah, it really is. And you think you're right to bring up like skims and, and commando and like some of the competition that's in that space. Whatever happened with Lizzo's like shapewear brand? What was it called? Yiddy.

[Jill Manoff]

Good call, Danny. We should dig in. I don't. I don't know. Gosh. And she was basically canceled anyway. She got a bad rap?

[Danny Parisi]

No, it looks like it's still around. But then I also remember that there's also fabletics and crossover with some of the more getting into athletic wear and yoga and stuff. It just feels very crowded and difficult space to be in. The other thing I was thinking about with delivery stuff because I just wrote about it and I don't think this is not, I think an issue for Wolford, but it's something that was on my mind is the situation at both. On both coasts of the US in terms of ports is like there are challenges on either side. I just wrote about the potential strike that's going to happen on the east coast ports. The people I talk to all seem very confident that it probably will be a strike because the deadline is really soon and they have not reached any sort of deal. So there's potential strike on the East Coast. On the west coast there's fires and also earthquakes and congestion and all sorts of other stuff. And they also affect each other because if there's a strike on the east coast, people will want to move their shipping to the west coast. And so then the west coast becomes congested and vice versa. If there's problems on the west coast people move to the East Coast. Air and ocean shipping affect each other because if ocean is messed up, people move their stuff to shipping by air and then that gets more expensive. So it seems like the people I talked to were like, there are constant headaches with shipping and imports and order delivery. And especially if you're shipping internationally, it is like, which most people are because they're getting stuff from manufacturers in other continents. But it's like kind of no matter what you do, there's always headaches. Just something I was thinking about.

[Jill Manoff]

No, you're so right. I bet brands that are listening are shaking their heads. They've got it rough. Like, I don't know, like, like you said, now we're dealing with returns post holiday. That's another headache. And with the shipping situation, God, around holiday, this is not a unique circumstance. I think I mentioned to the team that I ordered a 200 thing for my nieces and nephews. It never came. And I called to B and then they said, do you want a refund? Yes, I do. And then the item arrived like a week later and I have it. So it's like, they're not making any money on that. I have a refund and I have a product. That's wild. This is happening left and right. Anyway, so many issues around delivery and shipment. These poor, poor brands.

[Danny Parisi]

And even Amazon is not immune to that. I mean, I ordered something from Amazon around the holidays and it just never arrived. Also a gift for somebody. And then they just were like, it's just not coming. Do you want to cancel the order? And I was like, sure. Unlike you, I never got the things, which is unfortunate. That would have been great to get a refund and the item. And this was like a prime thing too. So it was like, even that is not immune to some of the problems. Anyway, like you said, I'm sure many brands listening to this are shaking their heads because it is. I feel like a common, commonly known huge headache is shipping stuff and returning stuff. And what a pain in the ass it is.

[Jill Manoff]

E Commerce just keeps growing.

[Danny Parisi]

It keeps growing. Cool. I think that's all the time we have. Jill, it's always great to talk to you. Thanks for being here.

[Jill Manoff]

Thanks for having me.

[Danny Parisi]

For those of you listening, don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to the Glossy podcast, because that helps us out a lot. It really does. I think if you get more ratings and reviews and stuff, your podcast gets recommended on the front page and all that. Kind of stuff. So if you like the Glossy Podcast, truly, that does help a ton. And don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy Podcast because you'll hear interviews with industry insiders every Wednesday and weekend review episodes with me every Friday. Jill, do we know who our next guest is on the Glossy Podcast?

[Jill Manoff]

We actually do. We have President Joyce F. Brown. She's outgoing president at FIT and just brought amazing changes to the school and had a lot to say about fashion's direction, how it's evolved over the years, and where she sees it going. It was a great conversation. Check it out.

[Danny Parisi]

That sounds fascinating. I can't wait to listen. Like I said, subscribe to the Glossy Podcast to make sure you don't miss that. Until next time, thank you for listening.