A (3:29)

You raised such a good point. I think the fashion element really is very, very important to this category of product. You alluded to Google having its own smart glasses years ago, Google Glass, which were a failure ultimately. And I really think the main problem was that they were goofy looking. They looked like a weird Star Trek contraption. And it was like, if you're going to wear this thing on your face out in public, like that's not gonna work. And nobody wanted to wear it because it was stupid looking. I do think the fact that Google Glass was kind of stupid looking was the nail in the coffin for that product. And I think Meta's smart play with the glasses was working with Ray Ban, working with a company that makes glasses and makes normal looking glasses that are cool and stylish. I think a big, big factor in the, the Meta Ray Ban glasses being as popular as they are is that they look like normal glasses. They do have the big, they're bulkier and they do have like a little camera light to let people know you're recording them, although those are apparently very easy to disable, which is a little concerning. And I think Google, clearly, like Google, could make their own glasses. I'm sure they have enough money to get some manufacturer or something to make the glasses part of it while they do the tech. But I think it's notable that they're working with Warby Parker, a known brand in eyewear, probably because They've learned that lesson that we need to make these glasses look as normal as possible if people are actually going to wear them.

B (5:03)

Yeah, I agree. And obviously the fact that they're not just doing it with Warby Parker, it's also Samsung and Gentle Monster as well, kind of getting into it. I think it's, it's a big entry and I think especially considering the moves that Luxottica and Ray Ban have been making with Oakley this year, they've been targeting athletes and that performance sports field specifically. Especially with all of the health wearables that are very popular right now, I think they've already started to corner a different part of the market. If Google enters too late, there's going to be no space for them in that competition. And they're also not the only company that are launching Smart or AR glasses. Both Apple and Snap have also been reported to be coming out with new ones. I believe it's either next year or the year after. Snap's been doing some things with AR glasses for a while now. I remember testing them, I think it was two years ago at a private media event and they seemed quite bulky back then and I've heard that they've had some problems with getting it down to size. So I'm interested to see what they've got with that. Especially considering AR glasses maybe aren't as popular as something like AI integrated glasses or something like the Ray Bans.

A (6:29)

Yeah, and you mentioned Apple. And Apple also has the Vision Pro which is not quite the same, it's more of a VR headset rather than glasses. But I think that product has not done super well for them. It is absurdly expensive for one thing and again it has the, the fatal flaw of being silly looking and I think that really goes a long way. The glasses thing is interesting to me though because I feel like a lot of other AI specific hardware has kind of not really taken off. You know, there was the Rabbit, that like device that you could speak to, there's the friend necklace thing that. And I feel like those devices inspire a lot of hatred and the glasses seem to slip under that a little bit. I mean, I still think they're kind of creepy. I don't really like them, but they definitely have sold much better than I think any other AI wearable device kind of thing. I wonder if it's just the form factor or what. But it's done well enough for Meta that they bought or they took out a 3% stake in SLR Luxottica earlier this year, clearly intending to deepen that relationship and continue with the product. Do you have any thoughts, Zofia? Not to put you on the spot of why glasses seem to be more palatable to people when something like the friend or any of those other devices don't.

B (7:52)

I think it comes down to the fact that a lot of people are still imagery and video orientated now. The fact that social media is so big, everyone's really comfortable with taking those formats. They want a new way to record that. And especially with first person angles being so important, like having that viewpoint, maybe like an insider angle, like, that's how we've been seeing the Ray Bans being used. You know, a lot of fashion people wore them to Fashion Week to show kind of like an inside look at what a fashion show looks like. I think that those kind of direct experiences translate really well through video. And I think the fact that there's so many people traveling now, like live translation tools, would actually be useful. And it's not quite as easy if you're putting up your phone every time and having to do that through the screen. If you can do it through your glasses, it is actually easier. I think there's been a lot of that context building. I'm not sure how useful that kind of side of things is because again, will you use it? Is there a button that you have to keep pressing or is it something that just kind of comes up whether you do it? I think there's been some interesting also development in terms of eyewear tech where your eyes attract and therefore you're able to prompt actions just using your eye motion. That also gets rid of a bit of a friction point. You don't have to touch anything to actually interact with the technology. However, I don't know if it's at the stage yet based on the Vision Pro, especially where people would use it. Do you have to have this kind of bulky apparatus just to make it work? Again, the more close it is to eyewear that we actually wear, the. The easier I think that adoption will be. And I think I said this like even two years ago. You know, it's just a case of spreading the word. I think the glasses were a bit of a failure two years ago, but the fact that two years has passed by and now people are actually getting into it. It's just adoption takes time. I think it's going to be another two to three years before people actually get on board of wearing smart glasses, like more permanently.

A (10:06)

Yeah. And I've been trying to sort of be cautious about the way I describe it because it's, it's 2 million units, which I think, you know, that's how much they've sold so far. Meta, I mean, which is pretty good. It's not like taking over the world or anything. It's still pretty limited, but I just. In comparison to a lot of other devices or wearables, it definitely feels like it's the one that has stuck the most so far. We should also mention Google said that they are going to offer two options of their glasses. One with just audio speakers and microphones and stuff, and then a separate version that has an in lens display to actually show things. I don't know what exactly, but there will be a version, I think that's a little more minimal. One more thing also is that I find any device that requires voice to operate. I feel like who's gonna use that? Like maybe just. Cause I, you know, I live in a big city where there's people all over. I would be so embarrassed if I was wearing my glasses and I was like on the subway and saying, glasses, take a picture of that man over there. Like that would just. I'm like, anything you have to like direct. I feel like adds a little bit of embarrassing cringiness to talk to it out loud. I know people use Siri and like voice to text and things like that, but I don't know, I feel like that voice operations still feels a little corny to use and I think a lot of people would rather just do something on their phone where you don't have to like advertise to everyone around you what you're doing.

B (11:37)

Yeah, I agree. I think that privacy has become like a really big thing, which is again why I think like in like visual displays will be far more popular than the audio. And I did an interesting article, I think it was back in January at the start of the year around the Nuance Audio, which is another kind of eyewear tech that eSlore has been kind of trying to get the prime space in. And it basically just is like a hearing aid with your glasses. And there were some insane stats there where a lot of people right now are suffering from hearing loss where it's either light to medium rather than like heavy hearing loss where you actually have to wear a hearing aid. So seeing like the potential of that market with, you know, how many people listen to loud music or you know, have had damaged like hearing because of other factors, it's a really big issue. I think that Apple with this audio feature, they're trying to get into that market too because it is Something that people end up using a lot more.

A (12:37)

Yeah, for sure. Okay, let's stop there with glasses and move on to our other topics. I want to talk about Forward fashion retailer owned by Revolve, has made a lot of progress in the last year, but they announced this week that their new fashion director is the model and actress and businesswoman Rosie Huntington Whiteley. According to the announcement, she will oversee fashion curation, merchandising, and seasonal strategy. And then this is a quote, while bringing her global profile and personal esthetic to the role. The reason I wanted to talk about this is because it's not new for a fashion brand to appoint a famous person, a celebrity, to some role within the company. What was notable to me is how kind of technical and sort of mundane the role is. It's not like chief personality officer or like brand ambassador. It's fashion director, like overseeing, like, merchandising, kind of a corporate role, which I thought was interesting. I should mention Rosie Huntington Whiteley does she has her own beauty brand. She has business experience. I'm not trying to cast doubt on her ability to do it, but more that it's interesting to appoint someone very famous, a public figure, into a sort of, like, mundane corporate role in a company. So that's what was interesting about it to me. What do you think, Zofia?

B (14:00)

Yeah, I think it's an interesting hire. Rosie's definitely one of the more seasoned models out there. The fact that she has her own beauty brand, Rose Inc. Which I think is doing relatively well, and she's also a big kind of spokesperson for M S Lingerie here in the uk. She does have a little bit more experience, I guess, with selling luxury goods, but also just fashion goods, too. And it's interesting for me that she's not the first person that Ford has been involved with from a celebrity angle. They hired Kendall Jenner in 2021 as the creative director for Forward. So because of the fact, I think that Forward in particular, and Revolve as well, they rely a lot on influencers and I guess the visual identity of the brand. I think Rosie, with her model background, with the fact that she's active on socials, could almost give a new channel for Forward to get into. Even if it is maybe not the most exciting role, it'll be something that they can put in their channels being like, oh, Rosie, this is our fashion director. It just seems like that's. That's the way that they're looking at it as an influencer play rather than, like, as a business person play.

A (15:19)

Yeah. I think you nailed it. They have one thing I think related to this. So they've had a 37% year over year increase in profits at forward and 100% growth in personal shopping. And I think that they do really cater to an audience who's very plugged into the fashion world, to the influencer world who absolutely would know and recognize Rosie Huntington Whiteley and probably value her opinion. So I think it really makes sense for them. It might be more strange for a different brand or a different retailer, but I think it makes a lot of sense. But it does bring up some of the questions we talked about or we have talked about over the years with Louis Vuitton, with Pharrell, where it's kind of like it's not that this person is not qualified, but more like what are the odds that the most qualified person also happens to be a famous celebrity? You know what I mean? It's a little bit like clearly that's part of the reason they were picked, if that makes sense.

B (16:17)

I agree. And I think that there's been a growth, especially in D2C, around brands that are almost founder led and social media founder led. Like we've seen, you know, brands like Aline where, you know, Ginny is like the face of the brand. And there's other beauty brands as well, like Rare where you know, have Selena Gomez who's almost like the face of the brand. And with fashion brands and especially brands that work across different brands marketplaces, whether that's far fetched Porter, they don't really have a front spokesperson. And it might be a little bit dry to put the CEO forward as that person. If you have them on social media talking about live shopping, for example, that isn't going to come across as well as if it's someone who's a little bit more native to that environment. And I think that's where Rosie's got a real advantage. She's also way more connected than maybe someone like Jaden Smith who's come in as this creative director for Louboutin or the fact that Vans brought in Sza in this artistic role. I think she's gonna be a little bit more of again, that connector between social media, influencer networks. I mean, even platforms like Shop My. Rosie would be a great person to have events with influencer partnerships. That would be her role, in my opinion.

A (17:42)

Yeah, it makes me think a little bit of that famous Kanye west interview when he's talking about Lady Gaga becoming creative director of Polaroid and he's like, the hell does she know about cameras in this scenario. I think it's not quite the same because as we've established, Rosie Huntington Whiteley does have a strong business background. But it's, it, it's just, you know, like you said, I feel like it does make sense in this scenario. Last thing I want to say is just Rosie Huntington Whiteley, one of the all time most British names anyone's ever had.

B (18:12)

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I think that a lot of the pull of her aristocratic sounding name is very attractive for American retailers. So I'm not surprised that's also a factor.

A (18:26)

Cool. Let's talk about our last topic. In Italy, regulators are currently investigating two major watch companies, the Swatch Group, which owns obviously Swatch, but also Omega and several others, and Citizen, which is a Japanese company that owns Citizen, but also Bulova and Vagari and a couple other brands. The Italian branches of both companies were investigated, I think last week by the Italian Competition Authority, assisted by the special antitrust unit of the Italian Financial Police. And the allegations are that both companies were engaged in unfair pricing practices, RPM resale price management, which as I mentioned earlier I think you and I have spoken about. I think in October we talked about Gucci and Loewe and Chloe all being fined in Italy for the same thing. The way I understand it, RPM is when a brand is overly strict with its distributors and retailers and sets a minimum price and will, through unofficial kind of coercion or threat of retaliation, prevent retailers and distributors from selling it below that price. Is that your understanding as well of how it works?

B (19:38)

Yeah. And I think that with watch categories, obviously, because that distribution is so much more controlled by the companies that actually own the watch brands, I think it's a little bit tougher than even with luxury brands because those, you know, retailer relationships are different. And the kind of inflation that's been happening with watch prices has also led to a bit of a secret market. I know that that's something that you've reported on as well. There's a lot of reselling going on. That's something that I think now a lot of regulators are going to be watching.

A (20:16)

Yeah, and like I said, those three brands were fined over 150 million euros, which is not really that much for a huge company. I also think Rolex was fined by France in 2023 for the same thing. But I think the regulator view on why resale price management is bad is it basically keeps prices artificially high. And as we know, consumers across the world, definitely in the us, certainly in the UK and the EU are very conscious of prices increasing. Basically RPM means that prices can be higher than normal, but they can never go lower. You know what I mean? The UK Competition and Markets Authority, which is the equivalent of the Italian Competition Authority, I read a blog post from them. They said price fixing is the number one anti competitive complaint that they get from consumers. They gave an example of fining. This has nothing to do with fashion. But the UK Competition and Markets Authority fined a bunch of firms in the bathroom fitting and domestic light sector earlier this year and they said it led to a 17% drop in prices. So I think in terms of price wariness, which a lot of people are very concerned about prices going up, resale price management is a big factor.

B (21:33)

Yeah, I agree. And I think even though the Swatch and Citizen kind of sit below maybe the ultra luxury tiers of Rolex and Patek Philippe, they still compete very broadly with all of these kind of selective pricing strategies. I think it's also kind of got to do with how much more visibility there is around pricing now. You know, you type into any kind of search field, you know, look up the price of like a swatch, whatever model like that is something that you're going to be able to see across all of the discounts. And some retailers will be, you know, pushing those retail, pushing those costs down a lot more. You know, a lot of the times, you know, brands like control their own D2C like Seiko or Tagger, you know, have more kind of flexible retail pricing because they have this authorized dealer relationship. But Swatch and Citizen don't. And therefore I think that that ends up with almost like a dysregulated market where some players have specific relationships and set prices a certain way and then others don't. And that also creates more distortion.

A (22:41)

Yeah, absolutely. Last thing I want to say about this is, so the Italian financial police and the UK Competition Markets Authority and across the EU we've talked about this, but I feel like the EU is much more militant about regulating the big companies within its jurisdiction. I was curious if the US even had a financial police and I had to look it up because I feel like I had never even heard anything about it. There is the FinCEN Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. I looked it up and their website is just full of press releases about immigration. So that tells you where their priorities are. Not a lot of regulation happening in the US at the moment. Any other thoughts you have on resale price management before we wrap up?

B (23:26)

Yeah, I think just to reiterate what you were saying about the eu. I think that there's going to be a lot more crackdowns on those kind of inflation related pricing disparities just because the regulation environment has been so slow for a very long time. And I think that a lot of these industries as a result are basically unregulated. Europe is already, already experiencing high inflation. A lot of people are very sensitive to price manipulation. So you'll get a lot of complaints. And there's now increased kind of political pressure as well on regulators. So I think there's going to be more focus on, I guess, bringing the control back to consumers. All of this luxury pricing, these price increases that don't really match the product that's very anti consumer. And to be honest, it's bad optics for the companies too. So I think they're just trying to do what's right for the people rather than what's right for the brand.

A (24:25)

Yeah, couldn't have said it better myself. I think that's all the time we have for our news segment, but thank you so much, Zofia. We're going to take a very short break and when we come back, like I said at the beginning, you, me and our editor in chief, Joe Manoff had a great conversation about what's going on at Versace. So stick around for that. So last week in the Week in Review section of the Glossy podcast, Zofia and I were talking about the Prada Versace deal. And in the middle of the recording, news broke that Daria Vitale was leaving. And it was very fresh in the moment. We did sort of a live reaction because it came out in the middle of our recording. But talking about it afterwards, we were saying, I think there's more for us, all three of us here to talk about with what's going on at Versace. Not just Daria Vitaly leaving, but the whole ordeal with being acquired by Prada and where things were before that acquisition and where things are going next and the Daria Vitaly exit, which I think was pretty dramatic and shocked a lot of people. So I wanted to get the three of us together to just do a discussion of Versace, where we think they're coming from and where they're going to go next under Prada. But thank you, Jill and Zofia for being here.

C (25:42)

Excited to chat about it.

A (25:44)

Yes. So Versace obviously is a very iconic brand and I want to talk a little bit about, I think, the mismatch between their name recognition and sort of their recent kind of place in the fashion industry. Extremely iconic. They have several, like Very famous moments in fashion history. There's like the green Jennifer Lopez dress that everybody loves, but Gianni Versace is sort of a legendary figure. There's an entire Ryan Murphy TV show about him. It's a brand everybody knows they've been owned by. I'm going to do a quick timeline before we get into the discussion. But they've been owned by. They were acquired by Michael Kors holdings, which later became Capri holdings in late 2018. And then they kind of languished there for a little bit, which we can get into. Donatella Versace stepped down in March as she was chief Creative officer. She became chief brand ambassador, which is a little bit more of a symbolic role. Donatella was driving creative force for a long time after Gianni Versace died. Then the Capri Tapestry deal fell apart last year. Prada deal was announced in April. Dario Vitale did his first show in September. And the deal, the Prada deal, closed in December last week. And right after it closed, it was announced that Vitaly was out. So that's kind of like the timeline. I want to start by talking about Versace. What's our impression of Versace leading up to this moment, up to the Prada deal and up to where we are now? I kind of alluded to this, but I feel like they're a brand that has such big name recognition but was a little bit languishing over the last few years, particularly being under this American conglomerate, Capri holdings, that is not quite on the same luxury level as some of the big European luxury conglomerates, for example, Prada. So I'll pause there. I'll let one of you guys go first about what's just your impression of where Versace was in the lead up to where we are now.

B (27:43)

The most memorable moment that I remember from Versace was that campaign with Lady Kaga and they had a little bit of a high end rebrand back in 2013. I don't feel like there's been any kind of big notable launches or campaigns since then. The bags haven't been particularly successful. The fashion is still very much the same. I don't know if you guys agree, but I don't remember feeling anything new from the brand.

C (28:11)

Yeah, it's been a while. They clearly lost value. Capri holdings purchased it for 2.1 billion in 2018 and then sold it for 1.4 billion. And there's a lot of talk about it being the same. That is it Medusa prints and gold, like kind of chain prints. Everything's gold. And. And that's kind of its signature. But Donatella Versace, who's no longer at the, at the helm of the creative, just aiming to kind of keep Gianni Versace's kind of legacy alive. So it felt like, I don't know, a lot of repeating some standout moments. You know, not too long ago, couple pretty well years back, whenever Logomania, when there, there were those cross brand collaborations with logos. That kind of rings a bell in terms of when Versace kind of surfaced and had more of a moment before the Capri holdings acquisition, there was that moment where they, again, nostalgia is one thing, but like keep referring to your heyday, like what's your heyday now? But they did have that moment where they brought the old supermodels from the 80s 90s to their Runway 2018. So just before the Capri holdings acquisition, that was kind of hot, but. But yeah, they're. No, they're still known for being sexy. It's very kind of a Miami look, which there's some references to south beach in terms of what the new designer Dario Vitale did in that one season. But yeah, it's definitely not been a.

A (29:41)

Powerhouse brand in the quarter when the deal was announced. So the beginning of this year, Versace sales were down 15% in that quarter. I think there was a lot of perception among luxury analysts at the time that Versace was kind of trapped within Capri, you know, And I think when, when they bought Versace, Capri had this very clear ambition to become like an American lvmh. And I think that ambition has sort of warped over time. The Tapestry deal fell apart and then things got stalled and they never really went full luxury. And I think the pitch was maybe to bring some of the other brands within the portfolio up to like a Versace level and make this big luxury, like stable of brands. And it just didn't really happen. So Versace was like the only, like real luxury brand in that stable. So, yeah, it was, I think, definitely in need of a shakeup. So Dario Vitaly joined as he became the new creative director earlier this year. He had his one show which we talked about. We did a podcast episode where we rated some of the new creative director debut shows. He was not one of the ones that we explicitly talked about on the podcast, but we did talk about it. I think we mentioned it once or twice. And then internally with the team, we discussed at the time, definitely a lot of people were watching it. What was everybody's impression of the show at the time. And then we can also talk about the wider reception. But I wanted to start with just personal receptions from YouTube.

B (31:12)

Yeah. I think for me, it was a little bit too far away from what Versace had been. And I think for me, there's always been a story with brands kind of leaping a little bit too much forward with a creative director. We've seen that with Balenciaga, and it doesn't quite work if the route and the designer's idea for the brand doesn't quite match. So it was interesting, I think the fact that it kind of harks back to the times of Gianni Versace. The shapes, the colors were very different. There might have been a better point of connection if he had done that as like the second or third collection. But still a good referential work. And some people loved it, some people hated it. Seems like a Marmite collection. Yeah.

C (31:55)

A lot of the critics, even experts liked it. And maybe, I think, maybe it wasn't as immediately. I think it had.

A (32:03)

It.

C (32:04)

Had they loved it as much as they say they love it now, we probably would have talked about it in that episode that we did. But I think sometimes when it is kind of a sharper change, you need it to sit with it for a while. And now kind of people are coming out of the woodwork. Like, New York Times talked to Nikki Campbell and I Deserve Couture and kind of referenced some of their posts about, like, oh, this is what the brand desperately needed in terms of Dario's creative direction. And also what was. The other comments were like, I wanted to see more or it was so good. I do see references to kind of that Versace. I would just say, like the vibe in terms of, I don't know, the sex appeal and in terms of how Gen Z is translating it, or younger stars and their stylists. Like, there was a lot of talk when Olivia Deen on Saturday Night Live or multiple looks from that one collection. And they redid it. Like they made one of the dresses short and like Addison Rae, like, cool. Like, definitely kind of an it girl of the moment. Kind of raw, edgy, wore kind of a little, like sparkle bra top that looked really cute. So I definitely, like, now I see it and I see it in the one campaign that came out like they are selling it. But yeah, there's it. The sharp. The sharp contrast is interesting.

A (33:33)

Yeah.

C (33:33)

And yeah, I do think we needed a. We. We had a sit with it.

A (33:37)

Yeah. No, I. I agree. I mean, I, I liked it and I think there were a lot of good. A lot of good reviews even at the time. But I think you're right that some of them were more. Maybe like, after a couple months, people were. Were saying they liked it a lot. But, like, the cuts review, the. The cut started with, you know, the first couple looks I thought were stupid. And then by the tenth look, I liked it. And then by the twentieth look, I was like, oh, my God, where has Vitaly been all my life? So it was like, even though the rave reviews were a little bit, like, iffy at first and then came around to liking it. I mean, we've talked so many times on this podcast about the rapid, rapid changes in creative director leadership and fashion and how short a tenure so many creative directors have. And obviously, Vitaly is, like, the shortest, which we can get to in a minute. But. But I feel like a lot of the designers and people we talk to always say, you need a little time. I think Jonathan Anderson at Dior said it'll take, like, four or five collections before he fully realizes what he's trying to do with Dior. So the fact that that first collection got as good reviews as it did, even with, like, you said, the sharp contrast, I feel like if he had been given more seasons, it probably would have gotten even better. I don't know. But I also wanted to mention Jill, the 90s and 80s Miami beach vibe that you mentioned very much. I think a lot of the good reviews I saw liked that. People said it evoked the spirit of Gianni Versace, who, you know, he had a big, fabulous house in Miami and a big presence in Miami Beach. So it was kind of. It was a sharp contrast to recent Versace, but it was still within the Versace universe, I think.

C (35:11)

Yeah, it would be good to know how the kind of Versace devotees like, the people who have been shopping it for years, like, what they thought of it. BoF had a quote from Prada Group CEO that was recent when they were referring to the transition in creative directors before the shakeup just happened, where the Prada Group CEO said, what I don't want to happen is I don't want to kill the patient while we cure it. Which is interesting. That, to me, reflects. That's the current customer base.

A (35:50)

Who's the patient in this analogy? The brand or the customer?

C (35:54)

Hold on.

A (35:58)

Like, is it. Is it meaning, like, we don't want to kill the brand while we're, like, fixing it up?

C (36:03)

I guess. See, maybe he meant the brand, but I was taking it to mean, like, the core of the brand being the customer. I don't know.

A (36:11)

And maybe. No, no, no. I Think that makes sense. The other interesting thing about the show is that Donatella Versace and other Versace leaders did not attend, which people noted at the time, even before all of the drama of Vitaly leaving, that Donatella wasn't there. I don't know, she was doing something else. She was at some other party or something, and people thought that was odd and maybe a little backhanded. I think she posted something on Instagram that was kind of like, vaguely like, good luck, but, like, she didn't go, which is. You'd want Donatella Versace to be there. If you're the new creative director, I think.

C (36:49)

Agree. Wait, what is her title at the brand now? It's like Brand ambassador Chief. As the chief brand ambassador, you go to the show. Yeah.

A (36:58)

To not be at the show. Yeah. And. And so, like, we can now maybe. Let's talk now about his departure, because I feel like there's some clear, like, tension behind the scenes, and there's been some reporting about what exactly was going on, but I don't think the full story is really out there. But so after the show, which, like we said, got, I think, pretty good reviews, even if some people were a little wary, like, I think it was pretty exciting and a lot of people liked it. The Prada deal closes, you know, a couple of months later, and, like, the day after or two days after the deal officially closes, Vitaly's gone. I don't think he has said anything about it yet. His last post on Instagram is like, a Versace campaign image, and it was from, like, a couple days before that. Like I said, we talk so much about how frequently brands change creative directors now and how short the tenures are becoming, but this one is really, really short. So Sophia and I had our reaction at the time on the podcast, but, Jill, I don't think you've. You've had a chance to share. So what was your impression when you saw that news?

C (38:04)

Well, literally, give the guy a chance. I think, like everyone else that's wild. And also, it's a shame because somebody that's a young, kind of fairly unknown talent, he's not one of the kind of 10 that are playing musical chairs. The fact that he came on board and.

B (38:21)

Yeah.

C (38:22)

And had a good. I don't know, a good showing at the first bat. It's kind of like we had high expectations in terms of this being another kind of great. And so, yeah, shocking. And then when you get into the weeds of the politics of it all in terms of what's happening with Prada group and the designer himself. In terms of leaving Prada Group at one point, it kind of all stacks up and makes sense and seems petty, but it is business. And I. I guess I. Loyalty is huge, especially in the luxury world. But anyway, it's shocking. I feel like it's unfortunate. I feel like the. The rumor is that they're bringing on Anthony Vaccarello, who apparently idolized Gianni Versace and has a relationship with Donatella. But again, it's just another name that we know, and we know what he would do with the brand.

A (39:20)

Yeah. And Vaccarello is currently at St. Laurent.

C (39:23)

Or formerly was currently for 10 years.

A (39:27)

Zofia, what about you? We talked about it last week, but have your thoughts evolved since then?

B (39:34)

Yeah, I mean, I've been reading up a lot around it, and kind of. It does seem like the risk taking was actually whether the show should have happened at all, rather than whether Daario was going to be in or out. It seemed like that decision was already made, you know, at the time of the acquisition. And the issue was, you know, why let him have a show, considering that that creative direction wouldn't really be allowed to go forward once the deal was finalized. And I think it's quite interesting because, you know, when you're thinking about the Prada group right now, it doesn't have the same kind of financial results that it had maybe a couple of years ago. It's still mainly driven by Miu Miu, which, funnily enough, was what Dario was heading up a couple of years ago. And it is still something that is holding the group up. Ginsberger, I think, is the one who took the risk on the show, and I'm wondering as a result, what his future will be at the brand. Considering that it does derail, I guess, the direction of Versace, it does add a little bit of a complication. I'm assuming that the execs of the Prada group will be hoping that this just kind of blows over and the public and the press will adopt the new kind of creative director with full force. But considering Prada's acquisition history, whether that's the issues that they had with Jill Sander, which, again, was all down to people. There was clashes between Gill Sander and the CEO, Patrizio Bartelli, at the time, who was Mia's husband, as well as the same thing with Helmut Lang, there was another disagreement. And I. Churches is the only one which has been relatively stable. And even then, you know, that's something that has just followed on from The LVMH model where it's kind of like a storied brand, very classic. There's no personal disagreements because the people are not maybe the face the brand. With Versace, it's such a more complicated kind of situation because Donatella is involved, because they're the public creative director. So got a lot of thoughts on, on that. But it does feel like, you know, Prada's acquisition. Acquisition history has been quite rocky and I think this is just another blip in that kind of system.

C (41:59)

That's a good word for a blip. I was going to say the same thing because the campaign's out for this collection. They're going to sell this collection. It is going to be an effed up year for the brand because there was some reporting about basically like retailers being hesitant to buy into it deeply and next season there's just like an inconsistency from season to season in terms of the brand look and vibe and like what customers are in for. Everybody's confused. So, yeah, it's gonna, it's, it's unfortunate. I was gonna say, can't we all just get along? Everybody that you mentioned, Sophia, it's like they're crabby. They're crabby. They don't like each other. I get that. It's business.

B (42:38)

It will be hilarious because in 10 years time, this like tiny collection from Dario will probably be the thing that's one of valuable pieces from Versace. Make a little tag on this collection and buy up what you can.

A (42:53)

Zofia is saying goodbye now. Invest in Daria Vitaly collection.

C (42:57)

And he's gonna go on. He'll get scooped up. There's no way he won't be somewhere and do something great.

A (43:04)

Yeah, and I think he definitely will because I think both of you mentioned this, but he worked at the Prada group. He was very instrumental in Miu Miu becoming such a big part of Prada. And we've talked about this as well. But MEWMI was frequently at the top of all those brand ranking lists and I think he played a big part in that. And there's been some reporting in a couple different places about what exactly was going on behind the scenes. And I think that one, it sounds like one of the main issues for Prada and for Mewtwo in particular was they were not happy about him leaving Mew Mew and going to join Versace and possibly even were planning that, like the moment they bought Versace to fire him, like just, you know, for the purposes of basically revenge for leaving Mew, mew. But it's interesting, Zofia, you mentioned, like, if they knew they were going to do that, and I think it seems like they were. That they were planned. Like, they, meaning Prada group, were planning to replace him the second they had that ability to do so. Why. Why did Versace go through with letting him have a show? If I remember correctly, I think his show was announced kind of last minute, too. Like, I think they were not initially on delay, right? Yeah, they weren't on the calendar at first and then were added sort of later. And I feel like that, to me, just adds some more fuel to the theory that, you know, there was some debate on whether even to. Or that he knew his days were numbered in some way or another. And I kind of admire, like, maybe knowing that you're gonna get fired soon and still, you know, putting everything into a collection and having it be received really well. Like, it's kind of a. I'm sure that felt good to do a maybe. Yeah. Like, honestly, if I knew I was gonna get fired soon anyway. And I. But I still, you know, worked really hard on a collection and it got a good reception and led everyone to. Yeah, exactly. Led to everyone being like, why'd they fire that guy? Yeah. Jill is doing two middle fingers for our listeners who can't see, But. Yeah. So I don't know, that's kind of cool that he was able to do such a cool collection on the way out. And I personally thought it was pretty fun.

B (45:12)

Yeah. I think it's not a way to treat people, but I think it is also maybe just a clash in cultures. Prada group in general is one of the very few groups that is still very, very family run. It's not really run like a business kind of conglomerate the way LVMH does. And even then, that has a lot of issues with maybe passing the company on. And it's the same here with Prada. But it does feel like maybe the kind of sequence of events here could have been a little bit different and handled a little bit differently. Both not hurting Daria's reputation, but also not losing Versace and Prada group so much money, because putting on a show is still an expensive endeavor, and it could have been handled maybe slightly differently.

C (46:03)

Yes. I'm so enjoying the banter that's going on in social media. People are weighing in. Even, like, there's talk that even, you know, well versed fashion experts are really, like, confused with this decision. It makes sense to me, like, somebody leaves your company, maybe you left on not great terms. They went to be the head designer. Like, who wouldn't take that job anyway? But the banter's funny. It's just kind of what you were saying in terms of how you treat people. There was a casting director who said, I think that the quote was, talent shouldn't be a spectacle in terms of these young talents and how brands are treating them. And it's basically like we've talked about it in several episodes about how the shift in creative director or the kind of turnover is often a signal from leadership to like investors to say, we know our sales suck, but we're doing something about it. And these are just like these little pawns that they're shaking. I don't know. It's got to be really hard right now. I also liked side note, there was. I think it was on Threads. There's an influencer that goes by Brown fashion gal and she just was like, you know, is luxury. She compared luxury to the new fast fashion. But she was also saying, you know, if I was Dario, she said, if this was a regular job, this would one that be a job that you'd skip on your resume. You say you've got a family or you had a family or medical emergency or that you took a break to take an online course. Yeah, it's such a blip in his career. However, it was so impactful. I don't think that's. That's true.

A (47:37)

Yeah. What. What were you doing between March and December of 2025? Yeah. And one, one more thing I want to say about other potential reasons. Obviously, I do think that the personal element of it is there. Like, I feel like there's lots of evidence. And like you said, Zofia, I think a lot of big European luxury companies are family run or have families at the heads, and some are more so than others. But I do think that plays a role. But I think there's also like a business argument to be made that his work is. I saw a couple people saying this, that his work is like a little similar to Miu Miu in style. And maybe they were like, well, we don't want two brands in very similar aesthetics. And I could see that too. That's maybe more of a cover for the personal stuff, but I do think that could be a legit argument as well. Anything else you guys want to say about Versace moving forward? What we think Prada's goal for them is before we ramp up?

B (48:31)

I think it's a very delicate time for the Prada group considering this acquisition. Is coming at a time when most likely there's a handover happening in terms of control of the group. You know, Lorenzo Bertelli, who's Mie's son, is headed up the company in most likely the next couple of years. He's been the executive director on Prada's board since 21. This is a moment right now where the company is already undergoing some difficulties and there are going to be some issues as this acquisition kind of moves forward. It's not the time to make these kinds of mistakes. And I think it's. It's still a big mark that this creative director has been treated like that. And it might be a bit of a signal for other creative directors who might not want their loyalty questioned like this.

A (49:23)

Yeah. Jill, any final thoughts?

C (49:26)

Yeah, I would just say, I mean, they need to haul ass and get a new creative director in. It says currently the creative team will be led by the CEO. The CEO.

A (49:36)

It's not a good look. Yeah.

C (49:37)

Like what?

B (49:38)

What?

C (49:39)

That's kind of scary. And also, yes, obviously it's going to be disruptive. This is the first time that the designer is not somebody in the Versace family. And it could be a great opportunity to kind of be amongst this class of brands that have an exciting designer that are not trying to kind of replicate archive collections like Jonathan Anderson at Dior and we know, like Michael Ryder at Celine and obviously at Chanel with Matthew, I can't say his name. But anyway, there is some excitement happening, so hopefully they won't kind of go with the expected and we'll still. I don't know, I'm kind of skeptical about their next moves, but we'll see.

A (50:22)

Yeah, well, I think that's all the time we have for this conversation, but thank you both for sharing your thoughts. And thank you for listening to the Glossy podcast. Don't forget to give us a rating and a review on Apple podcasts or Spotify, wherever you listen to this because that helps us out so much. And don't forget to subscribe to the Glossy podcast to hear interviews with industry insiders and week in review segments where we break down the news. The new episodes come out every Friday. Until the next time, thanks for listening.