← The Goal Digger Podcast | Top Business and Marketing Podcast for Creatives, Entrepreneurs, and Women in Business
The Goal Digger Podcast | Top Business and Marketing Podcast for Creatives, Entrepreneurs, and Women in Business
825: Creating a Sustainable Future Without Trading Time for Money
00:50:17
With Emily Gardner Peterson and Jenna Kutcher
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- [00:02]
Emily Gardner Peterson
Money's not going to take you to the next level. Time is. And so that's where it's like, we've got to shift that mindset because I think for so many of us, it's like we're trading time for money. You hit a threshold and you're like, wait, wait, wait. I'm at a point in my life where I would pay money to get back my time. This is a signifier that, like, I just need to prioritize time.
- [00:22]
Jenna Kutcher
I'm Jenna Kutcher, your host of the Gold Digger Podcast. I escaped the corporate world at the age of 23 with nothing more than a 300 camera from Craigslist and a dream. Now I'm running a seven figure online business that feels even better than it looks. All from my house in small town Minnesota. With my family here, we value time as our currency. We mix the woo and the work and we are in the pursuit of building businesses that give us the freedom to live lives that we love. I've always loved turning big goals into reality and I'm here to help you do the same. This isn't just a peek behind the curtain. Come along with me and my guests as we tear the whole curtain down. Every week we tackle practical, simple, no fluff marketing strategies and host honest discussions on what works and what doesn't. Join me and my expert guests for actionable insights to help you grow your.
- [01:14]
Emily Gardner Peterson
Dream business with confidence.
- [01:16]
Jenna Kutcher
Pull up a seat and get ready to be challenged, inspired and empowered. This is the Gold Digger Podcast.
- [01:24]
Emily Gardner Peterson
Have you ever felt stuck in the cycle of trading time for money, wondering how you can scale your business without burning out? Well, let me tell you, you are not alone today. We are tackling that and so much more in this coaching session with Emily Gardner Peterson, a birth and postpartum doula who has been serving families in Birmingham for almost a decade. Emily is an incredible doula, a mom of two, and now she's exploring ways to transition from a hands on service model into creating more sustainable income streams like digital products, courses, or maybe even a podcast. In our session, she asked thoughtful questions about imposter syndrome, making money, setting goals, and figuring out which income avenues to prioritize as she grows her business. If you are someone looking to build a life that works for you without sacrificing your time, keep on listening because this episode is absolutely packed with insights to help you scale and think in a different way. Emily, welcome to the Gold Digger Podcast.
- [02:23]
Jenna Kutcher
When all your marketing team does is put out fires, well, they burn out and they burn out fast. Can you relate? Sifting through leads, creating content for infinite channels, endlessly searching for performance KPIs. It all takes a toll on our productivity and our mental health. But with HubSpot you can stop burnout in its tracks. Plus your team can achieve their best results without ever breaking a sweat. With HubSpot's collection of AI tools Breeze, you can pinpoint the best leads possible, capture prospects attention with click worthy and access all your company's data in one place. No sifting through multiple tabs necessary. It is all waiting for your team in HubSpot. Keep your marketers cool and make your campaign results hotter than ever. Visit HubSpot.com marketers to learn more. That's HubSpot.com marketers all right, we are.
- [03:16]
Emily Gardner Peterson
Back with another coaching episode with one of our amazing Gold Digger podcast listeners. Hello. Hello Emily. Welcome to the podcast.
- [03:24]
Hi. Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity. Like, I am thrilled and honored.
- [03:30]
I am so excited. We loved your story and I actually recently shared this on a podcast episode. But somebody asked if I wasn't doing what I currently do, what would I love to do? And I said that I would love to be a doula and a birth photographer. I just think childbirth is a miracle and I am obsessed and I love every bit of it. I thought I was going to go into medicine, so the medical side of things does not bother me at all. I think it's fascinating. So you are like living one of my dreams, which leads me to ask you, tell me a little bit about you and what you do and then we'll dive on into the questions you've got.
- [04:04]
Oh my gosh. I love that you are interested in this too because it is definitely my niche thing that I could talk about forever. So I got interested in birth work like a lot of birth workers after the birth of my first child. Now you don't have to have kids to be a doula, but a lot of times like you have that personal experience and then you're like, huh, I feel like that is different than I thought it would be. Or I feel like I would like it to be different the next time. And that was very much my case. I always say, like the birth of my first son wasn't traumatic for me or anything, but like I just, we got done and I was like, I felt like I wasn't like the boss of that experience. Everyone was just kind of like telling me what to do and I was a participant. So like that just felt weird to me. And we have A program in Birmingham, where I'm from, that will. It's a nonprofit that will allow you to train as a birth doula if you then volunteer to serve clients. And that's kind of like your payment for your training. And so that is what I did to get started. And that was 12 years ago. My first son, I think, had just turned two. So I have been doing this work as a birth doula for about 12 years. I had another child. Very different experience. It was, like, empowering for me 11 years ago. And then I also started doing postpartum doula work as well a few years ago. So, yeah, most of the time, I have done it just kind of, like, piecemeal here and there. But the last four years, ish, I would say, like, around Covid, it really kind of, like, became clear to me that, like, I could make this my career. Like, I could. This could be the thing I do and not just like, oh, sometimes I do that. And so I've been, like, trying to do it full time, trying to, like, expand offerings, expand what I do, and really, like, make it into a career.
- [06:02]
Yeah, I love that. Oh, my gosh, I love that. Okay, so what are some of the questions? Let's dive in and we'll go back and forth. This is going to be awesome.
- [06:10]
Okay, so my first question is, how do you overcome imposter syndrome as a business owner? So, like, I am someone who, like, I struggle with imposter syndrome anyway, but I've been doing the actual work for so long that I feel pretty, like, confident in that. Like, I feel like I am providing the service that is asked of me. But when it comes to, like, being, like, I have a business, and these are. Is this what business people do? I don't know, but. But those kind of, like, I have no background in that. I, you know, read and listen to podcasts and all those things, but, like, that is a big insecurity.
- [06:51]
You know, what's so interesting is when you were bringing this up, I remember the first time I actually told someone I was a photographer and said it, like, as a statement and not, like, with a question mark. Right. Like, it's almost like I'm a photographer, like, and I was at the dentist. So I don't even know how I got it out. With her hands in my mouth, I think. I couldn't say anything else because she was working on my teeth. But I remember those feelings. And one thing that I think often is that it's not necessarily feeling like an imposter. It's wanting to be understood. And I think that a lot of our hesitation comes from what we think people are perceiving when we share about our business. And for a lot of times, it's like, people treat us like it's like a little hobby, right? Like, oh, your cute little hobby over there. And that could either be the reality or our perception of the reality. And so I actually don't think you're an imposter. I think you know what you're capable of, but I think you might be thinking more about what do people perceive this as? Do you agree or disagree? Because you could go either way.
- [07:58]
No, I think that that's absolutely fair. I think I do that. I assume that people don't take me seriously or don't assume the best, and that's not a good thing to do.
- [08:09]
It's. Well, and it's. It's interesting because I guess I've never even thought of it that way. But as you were saying it, I was like, man, a lot of times it's on us to express it and then release it and just say what we do and let people think. If they think it's like a little tiny hobby, great. If they think it's an empire, great. It's not up to us to help them understand if they don't want to understand. And I think that the imposter feelings come in when we're trying to make people understand that don't care to understand. And so I feel like it's almost releasing the expectation that somebody understands what your business is and the amazing service you provide and the help that you give in your community and all of these things, and releasing that and just making a statement that this is what I do. And I think often we, especially as women, are so quick to belittle our life's work and make it sound small or make it sound like a hobby. And so I think it's on us to give definitive statements. And if people are curious to learn more, they'll ask the next question. And if not, we just have to release it.
- [09:13]
No, I think that's really good advice. And, like, it's funny along those same lines because I kind of feel like the reason I am trying to, like, move forward in, like, a business sense and more like, a professional sense is because of, like, other doulas too. Like, if I belittle or, like, what I do, then I'm also, like, belittling what they do, you know? And, like, I want us to be able to, like, have this line of work as a sustainable way to support our families and everything. Like a lot of people are kind of like me where you know, we. You're interested when your kids are little and maybe you like do it a little bit, but you're like, this is hard. It's hard to be on call, it's hard to be gone for long periods of time. And so then they're more in it for a season, which is totally fine, like if that's. But I want it to be an option, you know, that you can stay in it for the long term because I think that benefits everyone kind of. Speaking of this like a side question, it is like a little bit taboo in like the birth work community to talk about money or like express like wanting to support yourself. I don't know, which sounds kind of crazy, but like it really is. And I think a lot of those things probably surround like patriarchy and women's work definitions and stuff like that. But that is another thing that I'm like struggling through is being able to like be proud of and say like from a business perspective, you know, So I don't know if that's like imposter syndrome, but it is a thing I'm struggling with.
- [10:58]
Jenna Kutcher
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- [11:30]
Emily Gardner Peterson
Get this.
- [11:30]
Jenna Kutcher
Moonpig mails the cards for you. No stamps. No late night trips to the post office. Just you on the couch with your cozy blanket making holiday magic. Think about how much joy you can spread this year. Whether it's grandma getting that sweet family portrait or a friend unwrapping a gift card that you've slipped inside the holiday card itself. It's so easy to add that personal touch. And with Moonpig, you can send cards to everyone on your list in a few clicks clicks so you never forget anyone again. It'll make you love sending cards all over again. And because I want for you to try it too, your first card is absolutely free. Just head to moonpig.com US Gold Digger again, that's moonpig.com US Gold digger. Go make someone's day. Everyone deserves a Moon Pig card. You know, running a business is a lot like growing a garden, which is something I am obsessed with. You start with an idea, you nurture it, and before you know it, things are growing and fast. But here's the thing. Just like any garden, running a business has its weeds. The payroll, the hr, the paperwork.
- [12:37]
Emily Gardner Peterson
And that's why I have to tell.
- [12:38]
Jenna Kutcher
You about a move we just made in my own business, in switching to Gusto. Gusto takes a hassle out of payroll and hr.
- [12:46]
Emily Gardner Peterson
They're like that expert gardener who steps.
- [12:47]
Jenna Kutcher
Into weed, water and make sure everything's blooming just right. Like, imagine having all of your payroll taxes filed automatically onboarding a breeze. And benefits that work with your budget because Gusto makes all of that possible. Plus, they genuinely care about small businesses like yours and mine. I mean, it's no wonder Gusto is rated the number one payroll product for small businesses. Four out of five employers say Gusto helped them stay compliant with federal and state regulations. And with Gusto's simple guided software and user friendly interface, payroll and HR are no longer exhausting. They're rewarding. Do you want all of this and more with no hidden fees? Try it out for three months free@gusto.com gold digger that's gusto.com gold digger.
- [13:32]
Emily Gardner Peterson
Well, I think money is so uncomfortable for so many of us, especially too when you're offering such a life changing service. And women will have to go through birth whether they work with you or not. Right. So this is an experience that is going to unfold with or without you. And so you are kind of in a premium position of like, this is why it's worth it. So you almost feel like you're having to convince people of the worth of your service and sell yourself in a different way. Right. You know, we can see like commodities versus, like, things that just feel like exclusive. And so I think it's interesting. But what's so powerful and what I think of often is like, when we charge what we're worth, we show up in a different way. And let me give an example and we'll tie it back together because I know photography is very different than being a doula. But this will all make sense. I remember when I was first starting out, I had so many friends and family members who would ask me for a discount and I just was so uncomfortable at talking with money that I would basically take whatever somebody paid me. But what I noticed Is like when people weren't paying me full price or what I thought I was worth, I wasn't excited about the job. I wasn't showing up like, I am going to over deliver. This is the best thing. This is totally worth my time. And so very early on I either said, I'm doing this entirely for free and I am in charge of the experience and what I offer, or you are paying the full price and you will get the full experience promised. And I feel like when we're starting our business, a lot of times we'll almost go to people like, what's your budget? And I'll work with you on that. But we almost feel slighted or undervalued, which doesn't necessarily change how we show up because a lot of us are achievers, we're perfectionists, we're going to do our best no matter what. But there is something in us that feels like this wasn't enough or this wasn't worth it for me. And knowing the high burnout rate in doulas, I almost expect that that is somewhat happening where the doulas are thinking, this wasn't worth the time away from my family. This wasn't worth the time being on call, like, I can't make this work. And so you're actually doing a disservice to your clients and yourself when you're not charging what you're worth because you're not showing up in the way that is like, here is the full experience and I'm going to deliver this and I'm going to over deliver and it's going to be absolutely worth every penny. And when you charge that full rate, it gives you more time and opportunities to do things for free as well. Right? Because I know that's also in your heart. And so it's interesting because I think a lot of times we think like, well, if we meet in the middle, that will be better for everyone. And I would argue it's not, because then you are spread too thin to even have any bandwidth to do things for other people for free. And so I would say in this scenario, it's like you've got to set your rates, believe in them and then really enforce them. And that way every job you're showing up to, you're like, this is actually worth it. This is 100% worth it. It is worth my time. You change your demeanor around your own family because you know it's worth it. It alleviates some of those things like mom guilt that we all feel right when we're Away from our kids because you understand the worth of it. So what is that? Does that help at all?
- [16:58]
Absolutely. And I've really been trying to think about it in terms of like, what you said about, you know, if you are paid your worth or like, just taken care of, like, you were just able to feel taken care of, you know, financially, then it does free you up to do things for free. And so I think that is also another thing that's kind of like helped me when thinking about, like, this work and money and stuff, because, yeah, like, you can't. Yeah, burnout. I mean, it's just like you said, you can't keep giving and giving and it's going to fall apart. I am not going to be able to handle it. My family won't be able to handle it. But, like, I know others won't either, you know, and so that is definitely one of the things that, that I've been thinking about. And then along those kind of lines too, kind of leads me to a question of. So I am currently trying to, like, diversify my income streams, but still within birth work, like, this is what I am, you know, feel passionately about and want to do. But I also, like, it's kind of more physical work than you realize. And like, I'm in my 40s now and I won't be able to do it forever. So I'm kind of thinking about the future too. But so some of the things that like, I've started to pursue, like to do different avenues. I recently certified with a agency, an organization that certifies doulas to become a trainer so I can train new doulas. So, like, I'm really excited about that. That's like another line of work. I partnered with some of the people that I've been working with for several years to start an agency to then be able to like, help new doulas or even existing doulas that like, don't want to do all the paperwork and the marketing and that kind of thing, like, have. Have a way to do that. So, like, I'm actively trying to pursue those. Like, those are my. I'm doing them right now. But then I have thought about other things too. I really like what you say about, like, have seven or eight streams of income. Like, if I was really on my game, but I don't know, I'm not there yet.
- [19:02]
But.
- [19:03]
But so other things like if it's affiliate links, if it's a podcast, digital products or like, courses, things like that too. So I would love your thoughts on kind of like what to try first, where to focus my time. Like, it feels like everything's possible right now, but I don't know where to. Yeah.
- [19:26]
So I would say first things first. It'd be really interesting. And I think a lot of people listening can relate to this, especially if you're in a business where you're trading time for money, is to figure out, is your audience more doulas or is it more like patients or clients? And so what I would do, because I'm always so curious when it comes to data, is I would split test. And so I would create one freebie that's geared towards more of the patients or client side. And I would create one freebie that is geared more towards doulas or people that are interested or becoming or are a practicing doula. And I would put those both out there a few different times for like, 30 days and just see, okay, which one is speaking first? Because I think there are a lot of opportunities to serve both the client side and the other professionals in your life side. But I would be curious to see, like, okay, what is predominantly already there. Do you have a hunch what that would be if you were to just do this?
- [20:25]
I don't, like, I really don't. I don't have a hunch to be a fun experiment.
- [20:29]
And it's interesting, too, because I remember, especially when I was first starting to teach photography, I was worried that it was going to, like, alienate my clients, but it did the opposite. It was like, oh, we have the best photographer because she's teaching other photographers. Right. And so there was zero alienation happening. It almost was like, raising my authority. So I think, don't worry about that. So I would say experiment on that side. There are so many ideas. I have one thing that is very fresh of mine because one of my team members just had a baby, is I ordered her postpartum meals. Like, meals delivered. And that was so expensive, but so worth it because I remember being so hungry and trying to nurse and waking up in the middle of night and all these things. And I was like, either creating, like, recipes that are nourishing to a mom, because I'm gonna guess in your postpartum doula work, you're doing laundry, taking care of babies, cooking food, cleaning bottles, like, all of those different things. Right?
- [21:28]
Things.
- [21:29]
And so, yes. So I'm like, you could either cook the meals and have, like, a local type delivery service for moms, or you could create the recipes that people in their lives could make for them. Like, I Know, with my sister, like, I was asking her, like, what kinds of foods can I make that sound good for you? Like, how can we help you? And so it's not even for the moms to be to create more work for them, but the people that love them, that want to support and nourish them. And that's a great place for, like, you could sell the recipes or you could have the affiliate links for certain ingredients or things inside of it. Another thing that I think is really interesting to consider is when you are creating this agency, there are so many different ways that you can support other doulas in the work. And I could imagine you at some point, especially as you build out an agency where you are more the person who is helping connect, like the matchmaker, connecting clients with the right doula. Right. And advising and guiding in that way. And I think that that is a beautiful way to get you out of trading time for money and building up a network of other people. And I was thinking about it this morning because I was thinking about the questions you had sent in and even remembering when I was a photographer, we had certain Facebook communities where like, if you had an emergency, there was someone who was going to show up for you. And it alleviated the ultimate stress of like, that feeling of like life or death, even though it wasn't. But it feels like that. Right. It's so important. And I remember when I went through one of my pregnancy losses, I was able to text somebody and be like, can you just be on call for me? Like, I think I'm going to be able to shoot this wedding, but if anything happens and I need to go. And like, she was like, I'm there, I will be there for you. And so not only does it help alleviate burnout, but it helps alleviate that, like, cortisol raising stress of like, I am the only, only person. And so I think that's interesting. I also think that and knowing a little bit of your heart, creating resources for women who can't afford to have a doula but want to feel in control of their birth. So many women take like hypnobirthing classes and take like childbirth classes and stuff. And so using all of your experience, your own personal experience, but your experience as a doula to help empower women as they prepare for birth, even if they're not able to afford a doula is a beautiful form of service. So I just, I feel like. And then you can create courses for doula themselves. I mean, there's just. I agree. I feel like the sky is the limit. But I think starting with where is your audience currently? And getting clear on that information and then starting to go down one path and just getting one thing going well, then you can kind of rinse and repeat that same idea or that same process for the other side of your audience.
- [24:17]
Jenna, you have such good birth working ideas. I know. It's like this season. You really do. I'm telling you. I'm telling you.
- [24:26]
And here's the thing, too, is, like, you could even create, like, birth plan templates of, like, if this happens, then this. Or, you know, like, just things that empower women as they go into it. You could create postpartum packages. You could create hospital packing lists. You could. I mean, there, again, there are so many things, and it's such a beautiful time. You could create playlists for birth. I mean, like, a million different things. And so I know you're right. A beautiful place to be. And also, too, I just think there's actually three audiences. This is. This might blow your mind, but there's the client side, there's the other doulas, and then there's the support roles of the people who are supporting women in birth and postpartum. And I think those people are probably the ones hitting the Google search bar the most of, like, how do I support my partner or spouse or daughter or sister or best friend when she has a baby? And I feel like that's a really underserved community because a lot of times people try to be helpful, and we all know that they're not. And so it's like, you could be that guide of, like, here's what she really needs. Or when she says this, this is what she really needs. So I've got.
- [25:32]
I've never heard anyone say that before. I think that that is such a good point. I also really like that you told me that I don't have to, which I know this logically, but, like, I don't have to do all the things, and I shouldn't try to do all.
- [25:45]
The things at once. Do not.
- [25:47]
And yes, and I think that that was really important for, like, me to hear right now, you know, because I am. And that was kind of another one of my questions. But I think that you definitely, like, at least got started answering it, like, the moving from doing the work. It's like you're saying, like, when you're exchanging time for money and building something, like, beyond that, where being in the work and not, like, working on the business, you know, like, those two different things. Because, like, I'm not ready. Yeah, I'm not ready to give up, like, birth work yet. Like, I still want to do it.
- [26:22]
Yep.
- [26:23]
But I want to start to, you know, in the next few years, do it less and have it be less of a percentage of my income than, like, some of the other things, you know.
- [26:35]
Jenna Kutcher
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- [27:43]
Emily Gardner Peterson
Yeah, so this is so powerful. And I think that this is. This hits anyone in the service industry as well. And I actually wrote a chapter about this in my book, but it's called, like, what is your enough point? And what I was going to say is because you asked a beautiful question where it was like, how do I stop working in the business and work on the business? And I think for service providers, it's like, we have a million ideas, but we have no time. Right. And so what would be really interesting, and I think this even ties back to the very beginning of our conversation of charging what you're worth. And, like, feeling confident and solid in those rates is reverse engineering. And I will honestly say that I think my superpower in life and in business is the ability to reverse engineer. And so starting with the end in sight, and so for you, Emily, it would be looking at, okay, what does my doula work as the provider need to bring in for the year? And what I would challenge is that you get really clear on whatever it is, like expenses you're covering or if it's a mortgage or childcare, whatever it is, whatever stage of life you're in, getting really clear on this is what I need to bring in. And what happens is a lot of times we either overestimate it or we keep earning more because we keep seeing more opportunities come and we're like, of course I'll say yes, more money. Yes, yes, yes. But in the taking more money, we're losing more time to work on the business. And so I was just reflecting a few days ago about, like, when I first started earning six figures, I only paid myself $50,000 a year because I knew I could live off of that for many years. So, like, we were still, like, scrimping by, but intentionally just to save money. And when I realized, like, wait a minute, like, I can live off of $50,000 a year, what would happen if I. I freed up my time instead of did double the work and earned double the money that I don't necessarily need right now. And that was when I actually scaled my business massively. So it was funny, the year that I cut back and was like, I'm going to earn 50k. I just want my time back. When I finally got my time back, I probably scaled my business up to seven figures because I was able to work on the business. I wasn't chasing my tail in it. And so it would be really awesome for you, especially as we're going into the new year, is to say, like, maybe you only take one birth every other month or one birth a month or whatever that looks like for you. And you get really clear about this is the boundary and this is what I'm going to charge, and this is what I feel really good about. And I'm not taking, I'm saying no to everything else. And that is how you protect your time to go to the next level. Money's not going to take you to the next level. Time is. And so that's where it's like, we've got to shift that mindset because I think for so many of us, it's like we're trading time for money. You hit a threshold and you're like, wait, wait, wait. I'm at a point in my life where I would pay money to get back my time. This is a signifier that, like, I just need to prioritize time. And so that's where, like, I want you to protect pockets of time where you are very strategically working on the other avenues. And I love that you brought up, like, you don't have to do everything at once. I would argue, like, do not do the thing that feels like your life's purpose first because you're going to mess up Right. As you're doing new things, you're going to learn. So start with something that feels not so important. Not like it's like the thing that's going to be on your headstone. It might feel stupid, like a grocery shopping list for a postpartum mom. That might not feel important, but it is. And I would say, like, learn all your lessons on something that feels a little easier, lighter, and not so, like, close to your heart. So that by the time you do that thing that feels like your life's calling, you have the experience, the wherewithal, and the confidence to execute it on level that you can. And so I always talk about, like, what is the lowest hanging fruit? Like, what is the easiest idea for you to take action on and how can you start to see yourself getting results? Because that is so contagious and it will carry forward with all the other ideas. And so I think a lot of times we overcomplicate it and we're like, I'm gonna start with like the biggest thing first, that life calling thing. And then when it doesn't pan out, we're like, well, screw it, I'm done. And so I just think time is your currency getting really clear. And so when I went from $100,000 a year to 50, I ended up learning about, like, online courses and all these different things, and I had the time to implement them. And then I went down and I went from 15 weddings to eight. And then I did two years of eight weddings and then I did four weddings. And so it was like, I think a lot of people think, like, I just started making money online and I walked away from photography. No, no, no. Like, five years ago, I was still shooting weddings and it was this slow progression and I still loved it, but I wanted to protect my love for it. Right. And I feel very similar. Like, that's how you feel too. Like, I. I don't want to be done. I want to protect my love for it. And the only way to do that is to not burn out. And so you're in this, like, protection mode, which means you've got to kind of figure out the phase out or what it looks like to do this in a way that's sustainable.
- [32:53]
No, I love, I love that advice, particularly about the not doing, like the biggest, most significant feeling thing first, because I'm also the queen of, like, task paralysis or whatever, where it's just like, oh, this sounds so hard. I can never do it perfectly, so I'm gonna not do it, you know? So I think that is really helpful, too. And, like, the contagiousness of once you get a little success or a little completion of something or whatever, you're like, oh, maybe I can do another thing. Yeah, no, I love that. I wonder if you went through this too, like, when you were doing photography, because there's also this thing when it comes to, you know, if you say, like, I only want to do one birth a month or whatever, you know, you're kind of scheduling out, like, on average, maybe like, six months in advance is kind of like what birth work is. But there's always. I still, like, always have this fear of, like, well, but what if no one else ever wants to hire me again? You know? Like, so that makes it even harder to not just say, oh, I already have two April births, but I could probably do another one. And my husband and my business partners, like, we all try to encourage ourselves. Like, but what does history tell us? History tells us that someone else will hire you again. But it's still really hard to have that, like, trust and faith in yourself.
- [34:17]
And I think that's. I totally agree. And, I mean, I was, like, shooting weddings in climate where it was like, literally all my work happened in six months of the year, right? So it was like, anything from, like, April to October. I was, like, double booked, basically. And it was a blessing and a curse. But. But here's what you have to remember. There are always going to be people having babies, right? Always, always, always. Like, nothing you do is going to stop that reality. And so I think that there's something so beautiful about, like, creating that urgency. Like, I remember. And I often get Facebook reminders because I was just like my own little publicist, you know, when I was first starting out. And so every time somebody booked me, I'd be like, cannot wait for Jonathan and Christine's wedding. Like, da, da, da. And, you know, and it creates that urgency and also that reminder to people that, like, oh, yeah, Jenna's a photographer. Oh, yeah, somebody just booked. Oh, my gosh, she's so busy. You better get on her calendar now. Like, that kind of vibes. And so it's interesting because a lot of times we're like, we don't know what to talk about or we don't know what to share. And obviously, when it comes to medical things, it's a little bit different, but, like, you could even be like, oh, my gosh, I get to bring another baby into the world in April. Like, April's going to be a busy month.
- [35:31]
And.
- [35:31]
And it just is like, a gentle Reminder to people of, like, Emily, does this work? Oh, my gosh. Wait. My friend's due in May. I should probably tell her, like, Emily might already be booked for May. And so it's interesting in that way. But I would say, too, like, part of the reason why I would never be a doula and, like, I would be a birth photographer if I didn't have to be on call. Like, I can't imagine sleeping with my phone. Like, I've had friends that are birth photographers, and everywhere, they are their gears, and they're like, they're at the soccer game and they're, like, ready to go. Right. Like, you just. Just don't know. And so I think, too, from the burnout standpoint, you have to have those boundaries and those limits, or else you are literally living your life on call. And, like, I would argue that's not a way to live. And so giving yourself those reprieves and those rests and those breaks, I think is super important.
- [36:19]
Yeah, no, I would agree that that's not a way to live long term. And, like, you know, even a little bit just beyond the, like. Like, it's hard, you know, to be on call and know you might be called away as, like I said, kind of, like, as I get older, like, I should probably not stay up all night, you know, like, so there is. I'm starting to kind of figure out that balance of, like, health, personal health, mental and physical. And, like, I know I told my.
- [36:49]
Sister, I was like, I'll do a night shift once a week at your house with these twins. And I was, like, thinking to myself, like, I'm gonna be screwed. I'm going to need all week to recover. But, like, I'll do this because I love her.
- [36:59]
Yeah, but you could do one a week. Yeah, that's kind of how I am too. Like. Yeah.
- [37:04]
Holy cow. Okay, next. You have another question.
- [37:07]
So I kind of mentioned the. The, like, agency. So that is more of, like, a structured business that involves other people that's not just me, like, as a solo practitioner. So I would love to know more about, like, goal setting in that regard. It's not something that I, like, naturally excel at, but I do understand that it's important in order to be headed in the direction you want to go. Like, if you don't have a goal, you don't really know what you're doing. So I'd love just, like, some more info about that.
- [37:37]
So when I got super booked out and when I started limiting my time, I actually hired an associate photographer because we Were getting so many inquiries for me, and either people I might have been out of their budget, or I was already booked. And so I love this agency model in a lot of ways, because I think, first off, Emily, it can elevate you to be like, Emily is like the creme de la creme. Like, if you can afford and get Emily, this is it. But Emily's also limited. And so if you can't afford Emily or if she's already booked, here's an amazing network of other people. What I think is going to be interesting is if you can first set your goals for yourself, I think that's going to set the stage for setting goals within a bigger collective and then also establishing with the agency. I think there's a few different models. So there's a model of, like, exclusivity, where if you were to take people on and you were like, you cannot work on your own or for someone else. I don't personally love that model because I'm just like, girl, go get your check. Like, wherever that's coming from. But. But then there's also the model of, like, if we connect you with the work, then we get a percentage of whatever that is. But personally, when I think about it, I'm like, if I were going into labor, I would want to be a part of a network. Like, I would want to know that my doula is a part of something bigger than themselves, so that I'm not just relying on one person. Because life happens, right? I think most of us understand that. And so what I would look at is, like, getting really clear with what somebody's expectations are if they come through the agency. If they're just looking for additional bookings and they're cool with, like, the commission model, I think that's super smart. But you're going to almost have to be really clear as to, like, what are the expectations? What are, like, the values of the agency that this person needs to uphold? And then, like, how is that payment thing going to work? And so when it comes to goals, one of the things that I have been learning, and it's interesting because I feel like the pendulum swings in my life is like, for a lot of years, I was just flying by the seat of my pants. I didn't really have a lot of goals. I was always just, like, surprised and delighted at what was happening, and we were always profitable, so there wasn't a lot of concern. And over the last few years, I've gotten really invested in, like, data and forecasting and understanding, like, more the Bigger budget and getting in the spreadsheet every single week and all these different things. And I feel like where I've settled is, like, it's so great to have goals, but also hold them loosely. I have seen so many friends who do incredible work and then they're disappointed because they missed a goal, but they don't see how much work they did or how many lives they changed, and they get lost in those numbers. And so I feel like I've landed in this place of like, yeah, I want to be driven and I want to, like, push myself and my team, but at what expense? Like, if it's the expense of joy in the process, I don't want it. And so kind of like, what you think of when you do your enough point of like, what do I need to cover? What is my minimum? Where will I say no once I hit that point? The same would go for an agency and having those discussions with each person as to, like, what is your enough point? Like, how many birds do you need? How many do you think you can bring in yourself? How many are you relying on us for? And helping people walk through that simple equation, I think it alleviates a lot of stress because when you start managing other people, it's like, you don't want to be worried. Like, is their mortgage paid? Are they good for groceries? Like, you don't want to feel that responsibility because. Because that can happen when you're running a team. So what questions does that bring up for you?
- [41:07]
Well, I absolutely relate to. Yes, I would be worried about if others could pay their mortgage. Like, you just can't help. Yeah. But yeah, like, keeping. I don't know how to say this because I'm not such a business person. Like, cash on hand or how to kind of like, see what.
- [41:21]
You gotta let that identity go. Hold up. You gotta, you gotta let that identity go that you're not a. A business person. Like, you've got to, like, clothe yourself in that identity. You are a business person and you have made it so far. And so, like, we've got to shed that belief because that you're carrying that with you and it's not yours to wear anymore. Like, you have done all that. But continue. But I want you to pay attention.
- [41:49]
Thank you.
- [41:50]
When that thought pops into your brain because you are a businesswoman and you're amazing.
- [41:55]
Thank you. How to know, like, what percentages of, like, cash on hand we should try to keep and stuff those kind of things. I mean, we obviously, we have rate set payments set for, like, this Beginning point, like where we're starting out, we're trying and seeing, you know, because this is a new thing for us, but kind of like how to figure out those things in terms of, you know, how much we want to have, you know, for the next year, like the starting point for the next year and just figuring out some number things like that. And I don't know if this is like an accountant question. It's like, hire some people lady.
- [42:31]
Yeah. Well, I think that accountants are so awesome because I even think back, like before I had even made a penny in my business, I had hired an accountant and I just had somebody slide into my DMs last night and they were doing all the things and they were panicking because they were like, like, when do I start an llc? And all these different things. And I was like, okay, I remember this feeling like. And I was like, this is like where you want to have somebody who knows more and can see more than you can in their world. Like that's their zone of genius. That is where you want to get someone on your side to help with that. And even yesterday we were talking to our accountants about like tax payments and all these different things where I was like, I don't want to be the expert here. I don't need to know this every single day. But like walk me through and guide me. And I will just say too, like, this is where the transparency with anyone who's in the agency is so important because some people might just want like one birth reporter. Right. And some people might want to be like fully booked out and like I want to be able to fund my kids college education. And so getting really clear as to like what are people's goals and encouraging them to take ownership over. What do you you need and what does this look like for you? It alleviates you trying to be the guessing game or you trying to play fair. It's like if everyone knows that like Nita only wants one because she's in, you know, closer to retirement and just loves this work versus Tasha who wants this to be her career, like then everyone is playing on a team and you're managing it in a much different way than you kind of playing coach and putting people in off the bench. Right. And so I just think it's like a whole different energy where it's like, you are responsible for what you need and let me know. And then we're going to all work together as a collective to get everybody what they need the best that we can to our abilities.
- [44:20]
Yeah, I think that's really great advice. And I think that's something that I'm like, seeing right now is like, oh, this management role that I have not done before. And I think it's really important. And I want to, like I said, like, the big part of an agency is because I want to be able for this to be sustainable for their families too. Like, I want to support other doulas, but, like, yeah, just the, you know, I'm used to kids. Like, I could manage kids with these for adults. Like, we're not.
- [44:51]
We had like boss school because all of us that are running companies, like, we started because we were passionate about what we're doing, not necessarily passionate about managing people, but that's where too, I would just say empowering anyone that's in the agency to be responsible for their own results. So that at night you're not going to bed thinking about or feeling responsible for someone else's results. That is the big thing. Because at the end of the day, you are responsible for your results. And if you help empower each person to feel that way, it alleviates this pressure and tension from your own life of like, I've got to feed everybody's families and figure this out because it's a lot. It's a lot for us to carry. And I feel like that's what you're trying to get away from. And so setting those expectations up front and empowering each person to help be responsible for the results alleviates those feelings for you, Emily. Where can everybody find out more about you? Watch you go. Because we know you're going to get all sorts of things, everything.
- [45:56]
So for the agency, which started out as a collective that we all kind of did together, the website is bhmborn.com so it's Birmingham Born. The Instagram is the same. And then my personal Instagram is +mom, doula and yoga. I do that also. So I am excited and nervous and all the things, but, like, I feel in this really, like, transitional part of my life right now, and I want to lean in, into it. And I'm super thankful to you for helping me. Like, I can't tell you how helpful this has been. I'm so appreciative.
- [46:34]
Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for being a part of our community and thank you for the work you do. I am, like, jealous and in awe of what you do. And so it just. I know how precious of a time that is for women and just how special and intimate and, you know, insecure in everything. And so it's just such beautiful work. This was so much fun. I can't wait for our community to hear it.
- [46:57]
Thank you so much.
- [47:00]
I absolutely love these coaching sessions and I hope you love them as much as I do. It is so beautiful to meet you, my listeners, where you're at in your entrepreneurial journey as you are working through so many of the things that I've had to fight through over the years. And if you are someone who wants to be coached on air, make sure you are following us on Instagram at Gold Digger Podcast and inside of our Facebook community we have linked both of those. We have our Gold Digger Podcast Insiders group. There are 65,000 of you inside of that community and every month we post about our coaching sessions so you can apply to be coached on air on the show so that other listeners just like you can benefit. Thank you so much to Emily for coming on the Gold Digger Podcast. This was such a treat. And if you love today's episode, take a minute to make sure you are subscribed so you never miss another show. Leave a review. I absolutely love reading them. I personally read them and they just touch my heart so much in this work that we're doing. And leave a rating. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Gold Digger Podcast. Until next time, keep on digging your biggest goals.
- [48:11]
Jenna Kutcher
Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger Podcast. I hope today's episode fueled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action, and realigned you with your true north in life and business. If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to gold diggerpodcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more. And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show. We'll see you next next time. Gold Diggers.