837: How to Finally Stop Caring What Others Think with Mel Robbins

Summary

Episode Summary: "How to Finally Stop Caring What Others Think with Mel Robbins" (Episode 837)

The Goal Digger Podcast hosted by Jenna Kutcher features an enlightening conversation with Mel Robbins, a New York Times bestselling author and expert on mindset and behavior change. In this episode, titled "How to Finally Stop Caring What Others Think," Jenna and Mel delve deep into understanding the pervasive fear of others' opinions and introduce the transformative Let Them Theory, offering listeners actionable strategies to reclaim their power and live authentically.

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1. Introduction to the Let Them Theory

[00:01] Mel Robbins: "The single thing standing in your way as you're listening is this concern and fear and more importantly, the power you're giving to other people's thoughts, which is something you'll never be able to control. And frankly, it's sad."

Jenna Kutcher opens the episode by highlighting the exhaustion many feel from constantly managing others' expectations and judgments. She introduces Mel Robbins, emphasizing her credentials and the impact of her latest work, the Let Them Theory.

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2. The Psychological Roots of Caring About Others' Opinions

[05:29] Mel Robbins: "When you're a little kid, we don't have something called attribution... As children, attribute everything to something we're doing."

Mel explains that our obsession with others' opinions stems from childhood, where forming connections with adults was vital for survival. This lack of attribution leads us to mistakenly believe that others' moods and behaviors are our responsibility, perpetuating the fear of judgment.

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3. Understanding the Let Them Theory

[08:28] Mel Robbins: "The Let Them theory is a book about control... we all have a hardwired need to be in control."

The Let Them Theory centers on relinquishing control over what others think and focusing instead on what we can manage: our thoughts, actions, and responses. Mel underscores that trying to control others not only drains our energy but also disrupts our sense of autonomy.

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4. Practical Applications: Personal Life and Business

[10:00] Mel Robbins: "Whatever you think about, what you do or don't do, and how you respond to the feelings that you're feeling. That's all you got. That's it."

Jenna and Mel discuss real-life scenarios, such as declining social invitations without succumbing to guilt. By applying the Let Them Theory, listeners learn to honor their time and energy, making decisions aligned with their values without being bogged down by others' potential reactions.

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5. The Let Them Theory in Parenting

[25:41] Mel Robbins: "You need to just let them... letting you go."

Mel introduces insights from Dr. Stuart Ablon, a psychologist, emphasizing the theory's application in parenting. Instead of reacting to children's behaviors, parents can let children be, focusing on calm and compassionate responses. This approach fosters better relationships and emotional resilience in children.

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6. Personal Stories and Transformations

[31:30] Mel Robbins: "I was a walking red flag as a friend... learning to truly let people live their lives and have their successes actually makes your life better."

Jenna shares her personal struggles with anxiety and jealousy, illustrating the profound shift achieved by embracing the Let Them Theory. Both Jenna and Mel recount their journeys of moving from controlling others to empowering themselves, highlighting the ripple effect of this mindset on relationships and personal well-being.

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7. Conclusion and Takeaways

[46:29] Mel Robbins: "Other people lead the way... You can do it, too."

As the episode winds down, Mel encourages listeners to recognize their inherent power in shaping their lives. By letting go of the uncontrollable and focusing on personal growth, individuals can unlock unprecedented opportunities and fulfillment. Jenna and Mel reaffirm the importance of celebrating others genuinely, fostering a supportive community that uplifts rather than competes.

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Key Quotes

• Mel Robbins [00:01]: "The single thing standing in your way... is something you'll never be able to control. And frankly, it's sad."

• Mel Robbins [05:29]: "As children, attribute everything to something we're doing... you think that your mom's bad mood is your fault."

• Mel Robbins [10:00]: "What you think about the situation, what you do or don't do, and how you respond to the feelings that you're feeling. That's all you got."

• Mel Robbins [16:56]: "What people think about you or what you think about yourself. And I think that we flipped that value."

• Mel Robbins [46:29]: "Other people lead the way... You can do it, too."

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a compelling framework for overcoming the debilitating fear of others' opinions. Through the Let Them Theory, Mel Robbins equips listeners with a mindset makeover that prioritizes personal control and authentic living. The heartfelt dialogue between Jenna and Mel, enriched with personal anecdotes and expert insights, offers a roadmap to emotional freedom and empowered living.

Listeners seeking to break free from societal pressures and cultivate a life of purpose and joy will find this episode both inspiring and practically beneficial.

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For more insights and resources discussed in this episode, visit goaldiggerpodcast.com. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to never miss an episode!

Transcript

[A]

I think the single thing standing in your way as you're listening is this concern and fear and more importantly, the power you're giving to other people's thoughts, which is something you'll never be able to control. And frankly, it's sad.

[B]

I'm Jenna Kutcher, your host of the Gold Digger podcast. I escaped the corporate world at the age of 23 with nothing more than a $300 camera from Craigslist and a dream. Now I'm running a seven figure online that feels even better than it looks, all from my house in small town Minnesota with my family here, we value time as our currency. We mix the woo and the work and we are in the pursuit of building businesses that give us the freedom to live lives that we love. I've always loved turning big goals into reality, and I'm here to help you do the same. This isn't just a peek behind the curtain. Come along with me and my guests as we tear the whole curtain down. Every week we tackle practical no fluff marketing strategies and host honest discussions on what works and what doesn't. Join me and my expert guests for actionable insights to help you grow your dream business with confidence. Pull up a seat and get ready to be challenged, inspired and empowered. This is the Gold Digger podcast. Why do we care so much about what other people think? It's a question so many of us wrestle with, especially when we feel like we're constantly managing the expectations, opinions and even the judgments of everyone around us. The truth is, it is exhausting and that's why today's guest, my dear friend, the incredible Mel Robbins, is here to share a life changing mindset tool that has already helped millions of people break free from that cycle and start living in control of themselves. My dear friend Mel is a New York Times bestselling author, the host of one of the top ranked podcasts in the entire world, and an expert on mindset and behavior change. Her latest work, the Let Them Theory, is a simple yet profound tool that can transform your life by helping you stop trying to control the uncontrollable. Imagine letting go of what people think, say or do and instead focusing on what you can control and what truly matters and what brings you joy. It is possible and Mel is going to teach us how. In this episode, Mel will unpack the Let Them Theory and show us how to apply it to our everyday lives. Whether it's navigating tricky relationships, setting boundaries, launching the business, parenting, or finally breaking free from the opinions that have been holding you back. If you have ever felt weighed down by other people's expectations or you've lost yourself trying to keep everybody else happy? This conversation is exactly what you need. Mel Robbins, my friend, welcome out of our text messages and welcome back to the Goal Digger podcast. Picture this. You're at a party and someone asks you what you do as a marketer. Like, how do you even begin to describe it? You have to generate leads, score them, contact them, create content, gather data, and tomorrow you have to do it all over again. And you also are spending time wondering if all that you're doing is even working. Marketers are spread way too thin. But HubSpot has a better way. With the help of HubSpot's collection of AI tools, Breeze and features like Content Remix, you can turn one piece of content into a suite of assets. You can also pinpoint the best prospects with predictive lead scoring and level up your campaign KPIs with a new analytics suite. So your day to day becomes less busy work and more driving revenue through the roof. And most importantly, you'll have a way easier time describing what you do at parties. Visit HubSpot.com marketers to learn more. That's HubSpot.com marketers. This is going to be the best. Mel, you are one of my dearest friends, and I feel like people always lead podcasts in that way, but there's no depth there. And I feel like the difference is, is that we have the depth. And so just thank you for coming on this show. This is gonna be a really fun and unique conversation.

[A]

Well, and just so I can put it in context, you're like the little sister I never had. I mean it. And my husband Chris is like, best buddies with Drew. We vacation together, we share the same therapist, we are constantly texting. And so when you say that we are the dearest of friends and we're doing life together, it is true.

[B]

Yeah, it is so true. Okay. One of the things that I have always admired about you and I actually can pinpoint a conversation that we had sitting in these white chairs in Greece. It was talking about other people's opinions. And this was when you first told me about this theory and this book that you had been working on. And it was this, like, lean in moment to each other of like one what you were so excited about. But I truly believe, when I, I think about it, when I go to bed at night, when I think about this community and the impact that we could be having and the results we could be getting, I truly believe that there is one thing that is holding so many people back. And it is the fear of what other people think. So let's start there. Is it fear? Is it conditioning? What is it that? Why are we so obsessed with what other people think about what we are doing and who we are?

[A]

Well, I can give you the deep psychological explanation and then we should cross check it against our therapist, the amazing Dr. Ann Davin. But you know, I'll just kind of shorthand that because kind of understanding why, it just makes you smarter. But here's why. When you're a little kid, you actually will not survive if you're not connected to the adults around you. Like, you can't feed yourself, you can't cook, Hell, you can't even walk for the first year of your life. If you couldn't figure out ways to make sure that the people around you noticed you, they cared for you, you would have died. And so there is just this fact about human wiring that when we're really, really little, we need to be connected to the adults around us in order to survive. And that can be a really good thing when the adults are paying attention and when they are able to meet your needs. But what ends up happening is that this wild screw up. I learned this from a psychiatrist at Stanford. His name is Dr. Paul Conti and he's written this magnificent book. He is also very famous because he was Lady Gaga's trauma therapist. And so she wrote the open to his big book on trauma. And he shared something with me, Jenna, that I never fricking knew. And I wish everybody were taught this. And it's this. There is a fundamental flaw in human wiring. It's this. It's that when you're a little kid, we don't have something called attribution. Attribution is the ability to be in a situation, whether, let's just say you're like a four year old or you're an eight year old and you're home and mom comes in and she's super stressed out, something's going on at work or something's going on in her life and she like slams her purse on the counter and then she throws something in the sink and in your little body, you're like. Because it's startling, right? Here's the flaw in human wiring. As a little bitty kid, you don't have the ability to attribute your mother's behavior to your mother. You don't have the ability to go, oh, I bet she had a hard day at work, or, oh, I bet she just had a frustrating phone Call we, as children, attribute everything to something we're doing. You think that your mom's bad mood is your fault. You think that if people are upset, that somehow it has something to do with you. And I personally believe that the reason why we are obsessed with what other people think is because we had to be in order to try to interpret the world around us and keep ourselves safe. And now I'm gonna take it a layer deeper.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ultimately, the Let Them theory is a book about control, and it's a book about a fundamental thing that is part of the wiring of every human being, which is we all have a hardwired need to be in control. We need to feel in control of our decisions, of our future, of what's happening at work, of our bank accounts. And this presents a problem because, Jenna, if you were to do something that started to worry me, and you do all the time. Like, I'm constantly worried about Jenna. If Jenna does something that pisses me off or frustrates me or there's something that I think Jenna should be doing. Now, all of a sudden, Jenna's behavior makes me feel a little on edge and out of control, and I make a major mistake. I step across the line, and I think I'm supposed to now change Jenna or control her or tell her what to do. And then that presents a problem, Jenna, because you also have a fundamental need for control. And so as I start to try to control you, you are naturally gonna push back to try to stay in control of yourself. So ultimately, the Let Them theory is just a simple tool that, in an instance, you can catch yourself when you're crossing that line and you're spending any time and energy trying to control something beyond your control and pull the power back and focus on what you can control. And let's talk about the fear that we all have of what other people are thinking. One of the reasons why we're terrified of it is because we can't control it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you, because of childhood, feel like everything's your fault or your responsibility. And whenever you feel like people around you aren't happy or you're a little concerned about what you're about to do and how people might react, that makes you feel a little unsafe. And so the mistake that I made for 54 years is that the second that I start to feel a little nervous about something, I immediately start controlling the wrong things. And that's where this fear of what other people think comes in. I actually believe for 54 years, Jenna, that I could control what somebody Thought about me based on what I did or didn't do. You can't. Like, have you ever bent over backwards to try to make somebody happy?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then they're still, like, disappointed or.

[B]

Pissed off at you 100%.

[A]

So even when you put all your time and energy and let's just say, how many times have we. Have you been in a situation where you've, like, changed your plans? And so you're like, you don't really wanna go out on Wednesday night to your friend's 36th birthday party where nine of you are going to split the check. As much as you love her, you're exhausted. You've got stuff that you need to do. It's gonna be a loud restaurant. And sometimes, you know, look, if you want to show up because it makes you a good friend and that's aligned with your values, do it. But if it really isn't going to support you to show up, then just let them know and do what works for you and take your friend out solo and celebrate her in a way that supports you. But here's what we do, right? We then want to say, I'm not gonna come. How about I take you out and we do a spa day somewhere? We want to do that. But then we make a fatal mistake. We immediately think about what our friend is going to think about us. And when you do that, you immediately give your friend power over you. And here's the truth. Whether you go or not, you cannot control and predict or guarantee what your friend is going to think. You can't, because the Average person has 70,000 random thoughts a day. I mean, half the stuff that pops in my mind, I don't even know where the hell it comes from. Yeah. Know why any of us think that? Like, I could crawl up in your head, Jenna.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And through my behavior, actually guarantee that you think anything. And so here's what we do. We know what we want to do. We don't want to go to the party. But instead of just letting them know that. And then, you know, the second part of the theory, the first step is say, let them. Let them be disappointed. Let them know. Let them have their feelings about things. And then you say the second step, which is, let me. Let me remind myself there's three things in my control and only three things. That's it. What I think about the situation, what I do or don't do, and how I respond to the feelings that I'm feeling. That's all you got. That's it. That's where your Power is. That's what you can control. So I know that I can think that I'm a really good friend, and I'm exhausted, and I really need to stay home because I have a huge week, and going out to a loud restaurant and splitting a check and all, it's just not gonna serve me. And by the way, I'd rather actually spend some time solo with my friends. Don't really care for five of the friends that are gonna be there. Right. So when you make a decision like that, what are you doing? You're honoring your time. You're honoring your energy. You're actually doubling down on what supports you and on the values that you have, because you know that you're a good friend. You know that you love your friend, and you also know that showing up at a birthday dinner on a Wednesday night at a big restaurant doesn't mean you're a good friend. It just means you said yes. And so you know these things. But right before you're about to pick up the phone and give her a call, what do you do? You stop and think about what she's gonna think about this, and then that's where you lose your power, and you end up going, oh, okay, well, I'm not gonna do it. And then you end up at the birthday party, and the whole time you're sitting there with a fake smile on your face. You're at the end of the table. You're not even near your friend. You can't hear anything that anybody's saying. And by the way, you think you've done this to please your friend. And meanwhile, your friend's like, why does she look like she's having a bad time? So now the behavior that you did didn't even guarantee the thought that you wanted to try to control. And this is so important for everybody that follows you and just devours your work and your teaching. Jenna. Because I personally believe, particularly for the person who has chosen to hit play and to join you and I today and go on this metaphorical walk between friends. Jenna, I think the single thing standing in your way as you're listening is this concern and fear and more importantly, the power you're giving to other people's thoughts, which is something you'll never be able to control. And frankly, it's sad. It is sad that you allow something that you can't control to block you from doing what you want to do in your life and expressing yourself and launching the business and starting the podcast and all these ways you want to grow and put Yourself out there, if the only thing that's holding you back is the fear of what somebody might think. The good news is we're going to teach you today how to actually remove that fear.

[B]

I think this is so powerful. And I know that, you know, when you were telling me about this book and this idea and everything and all the work you were doing, like, there's just such fire in you. I mean, this book, like, poured out of you like it really did. And I think it is such beautiful timing because it's interesting. And I think that a lot of times our exhaustion is because we are giving our power away every single day. Like, we. I think so many women are waking up tired, are going to bed exhausted, and we're wondering, like, we're working so hard, but, like, what for? And is this the point of it? And I think so much of that is that we're just giving up our power in micro decisions, in macro decisions, in thoughts, in the spaces between our ears, like in our brain. And it's just fascinating to me because, you know what matters more? What people think about you or what you think about yourself. And I think that we flipped that value.

[A]

Yes. And the advice on this topic blows because most people tell you, don't care. I don't care what people think. The single biggest sign that somebody cares about what people think is when they say, I don't care what people think. Because if you have to say it, you actually are struggling with what other people think about you. And the let them theory is gonna teach you a revolutionary approach because you should care about what people think. It means that you're a good human.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It means that you care about people. It means that you don't want your behavior to negatively impact somebody else, because that's not what you intended. So caring about what people think is not a problem. It's actually a sign that you're a good, decent, kind human being. That's not the issue. The issue is what you do and how much power you give to what other people think. And so this is where the let them theory is going to set you free, because you're going to let people think negative thoughts. And the reason why this is revolutionary is because when you let people think negative thoughts, you're actually allowing something that you're afraid of, because that's what you're afraid of. You're not afraid that people are gonna think positive things about you. You're afraid they're gonna think negative things. And so what if you just lived your life giving people permission to think negative thoughts. Just let them. And the reason why you're gonna find this to be revolutionary is because when you say, let them think negative thoughts, let them unfollow me. Let them gossip. Let them not understand what I'm doing and why. Let them be upset by my decisions. When you let people think negative thoughts about you, you now release control of something you could never control. You also acknowledge this thing you've been deeply afraid of, but you rise above it because you kind of feel a little bit superior. Like, if you're struggling with posting on social media or following Jenna's extraordinary advice on monetizing Pinterest, which, by the way, Jenna has taught me everything that I know. She is behind my strategy. She is a genius, and you should be doing it. But the only thing that will keep you from actually following Jenna's formulas and her teaching is your fear that people are gonna think something negative. So just let them think something negative. And what happens is you start to go, oh, well, let them think something negative. Cause I know what I'm doing. And then you come back to the let me part and you say, let me remind myself. My social media, it's actually for me. My social media is for my business, my self expression, my income, my artistry. It's not for my friends from college. It's not for my family. Let them think negative thoughts. And let me remind myself that I get to choose what I think about myself. And if I'm operating in a way where I'm doing the things that I would like to be doing in my life and I'm aligned with my values, then I'm proud of myself. And what I've found is that when you're really proud of yourself and when you give yourself the grace and the space to act in accordance with your dreams and your values, something really interesting happens. You don't really think much about other people at all because you've removed the fear. Because you've actually said, just let them think negative thoughts. I know who I am. I know why I'm doing things. I know people won't understand, but I know that I'm operating based on goals and values and character. And when I do that, I'm proud of myself. And if somebody's upset, then I'm gonna trust that they're gonna come to me, and then I can have a conversation then. But I don't need to worry about this. Cause it's out of my control. And you know, for the people that spend time learning from you, Jenna, this will change Your life. This will help you make seven figures. And I'm gonna give you an example. So it's so subtle how big this fear is, Jenna.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And maybe you should give the example. Like, so can you. Like, is there a scenario that you have people write in all the time, whether it's related to social media or marketing their business or making a change, where there's that moment where they feel a little frozen?

[B]

Oh, 100%. You know what it is, Mel? It's people feel more comfortable talking to strangers than having their own friends and family. And to me, it's so crazy, because I'm like, if these people are your friends and your family, shouldn't they want the best for you? And I've even seen, as far as, like, people making posts of, like, block all of your friends and family on social so that you can show up. What do you think about that? Because I just. I think that it's interesting that we're more.

[A]

I think that is people we know. I've ever heard in my entire life. And let me tell you why. You're actually giving other people power. In saying I need to block my family and friends, you're actually saying that they have more power over me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Therefore, I have to block them. No, you don't. You need to just let them. Let them be who they are. Let them be who they're not. Let them think what they want. Let them write weird comments on your social. Let them not buy your stuff. Let them not share your things. Let them. Let them. Let them. Let them. Because you're so much more powerful than what anybody thinks or does in response to what you're doing. And when you just let people be who they are, a wonderful thing happens. You actually take responsibility for who you are and for what you want. And let's look at the word responsibility. Responsibility is the ability to respond. Responsibility is the ability to respond. Your power is not in blocking people. Your power is in response, responding to people. That's your power, period. And so I think that is ridiculous advice, because what you're also doing is you are confirming to yourself that you're not strong enough to handle somebody else's reaction. Therefore, you are so weak that you have to block people. That is the absolute wrong advice, because it keeps you trapped and it keeps you showing up. Like, how do you show up fully if you're actually hiding yourself from your family?

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

How do you show up fully if you're not allowing your sorority sisters from college to see what you're doing now? What you're doing is picking and choosing. Why? Because you actually want to try to control what people think of you. And I'm here to tell you it is a waste of your precious time and energy. And, you know, I wanna share something else because you said earlier, Jenna, something that was so astute, which is women in particular are exhausted, that we collapse into bed, we wake up exhausted, our thoughts are racing. We feel that, you know, if one ball drops, everything's gonna implode. That it's all up to us. We never have time to advance our goals, to put ourselves first. And here's how the let them theory is going to change your life. This is how it's changed my life. Life is like a death by a thousand cuts. And you don't realize this now, but when you start saying let them, you're going to realize that all day long you're allowing other people's behavior and you're allowing things that are beyond your control to drain your life force energy. You know, there's this huge movement around microdosing as a way to kind of lift your spirits and your energy and your focus up. I want you to understand that the reason why you're so tired is you're experiencing micro draining of your energy and your time. And I'll give you an example. So the day after I discovered the let them theory, I was standing in a line and. Have you ever been at like a garden center? I know you are a major gardener, just like me.

[B]

And you got my big old carton, all my soil. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

And there's like five people in front of you and there's only one cashier. Yep. And it's like, beep, beep, beep. Pause for small talk. Beep.

[B]

Yep. Beep.

[A]

Oh, this doesn't have a price. How do you feel in that moment?

[B]

Stressed, anxious, frustrated. All the things.

[A]

All the things. And then you start rocking and then you probably, if you're like me, you turn to the person next to you and you roll your eyes and then you're looking around and you're angry at the person who's restocking plants because they're not coming up. And next thing you know, you think that you can run the garden center better than anybody else and you're all agitated. And here's. This is an example of why you're so tired. Because you just allowed something that is out of your control to do two things. Number one, you allowed it to stress you out. What you are describing is what happens when your body goes into a medical state. Called a stress response. You go into fight or flight. And the problem for most of us is if we jack ourselves up like that around a grocery line or traffic or something that our mother in law said or some comment on a post, we tend to stay in fight or flight, which impacts focus, which impacts your energy, which impacts your mood. And it was because of something stupid. And the second reason why this is really kind of this micro moment that has a major impact on you is that because you're so focused on what's happening out there, the beep, beep, beep and what's not happening, you actually miss how much control you have. So in that situation, what you're going to do, anytime you're frustrated, anytime you're annoyed, anytime somebody hurts you or worries you, or bothers you, or you have an opinion or you feel that agitation, just say, let them. And what immediately happens, Jenna, is you're gonna feel this release. You're gonna feel your shoulders drop, you're gonna feel a little bit of peace. You're gonna feel the stress leave your body. And you're acknowledging when you say let them, this is not in my control, therefore it is not worth my time and energy. And then when you say let me, you bring all of the time and energy and the power back to you and your response to it. Because what you can control, I can control what I choose to think about this. I can control what I'm gonna do or do. Don't do a response. And in that instance, I could close my eyes and meditate. I could call my mom because I am trying to make more of an effort to reach out. And I could use the time like that. And you know what else I could do? I could actually leave. I could take my little cart full of the soil and the plants and I could put it over on the side and I could walk out. And I certainly have control over what I do with these feelings. Do I let them run me over and ruin my day or do I just let them rise and fall? And when you recognize that in any situation you have power, you can leave any line, you can leave any interview, you can leave any conversation, any date, any text chain, any dining room table, any business partnership, anytime you choose to. But if you allow the world around you and people's moods and things beyond your control and things that are beneath you, you to actually bother you, this is the reason why you're so tired. It's because you unknowingly give power away all day long. And I can't wait for you to start using this. Because what I discovered almost immediately is, holy cow. I have so much more time than I thought. Holy cow. I'm actually not that tired at 8 o'clock at night because I haven't allowed the world around me or some dumb text or some, you know, immature thing that a friend did to actually drain me.

[B]

You know, what's crazy is, like, I can think of specific people in my life, but I think a lot of times people, we think that, like, our thoughts and emotions and energy go outward. Like, if that person cuts you off, you think, like, you being mad at them is going to punish them. And, like, what we're missing is that, like, the only person being punished is ourselves. Right. Like, all of that doesn't go out into the ether in the way that you think it does, including your own judgments against other people. Like, you think, like, I'm sitting here rolling my eyes at her post.

[A]

Guess what?

[B]

If she's following this theory, she don't care. She's not impacted. Yeah, I've been trying to teach my kids that, too. Of, like, you are in control. Like, this is your home. You are in control of the energy you bring. You are in control of the energy you leave. No one should have the power to change that energy. Picture yourself in a bubble. And because we share the same therapist, one of the resources I often picture during therapy is a bubble. I want to be in my bubble, and people do not have access into the bubble. And, you know, it's interesting because in a world that is so full of judgment and vitriol and hate and bigotry and all these things, what's interesting is, is that where it's coming from, we think that it's, you know, hurting other people. Like, we're aiming it at these targets. And at the end of the day, the only person that is being impacted is ourselves and our life and the quality of it and the pleasure we get out of it.

[A]

You know, Jenna, just so beautifully said. And one of the things that I'm really excited about is that I didn't discover this until I was 54 years old.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was not in charge of my energy because I didn't know how to be. And, you know, there's a reason why all three of my kids are in therapy. It's because I totally screwed them up in a lot of ways because I was so reactive. I allowed the world. I allowed narcissistic personality styles. I allowed stress at work to get into my cells and my tone of voice and my energy. And I literally I believe that all adults are 8 year olds in big bodies. And so I would come home every day to my poor little kids who are just doing their thing, playing with the Tupperware on the floor, and I'm the mom erupting. I'm throwing the purse on the counter. I'm the one that's in a bad mood. I've got the short tone of voice because I, first of all, did not have the let them theory. So I didn't know how to protect myself from the outside world. And I also had never understood how important it is to manage your energy and to learn how to process the wave of emotions that hit without vomiting them on other people or taking it out on other people. And so, you know, I say that, and I own it, because one of the things I'm so excited about is how many new parents and young parents and, you know, people in their 20s and 30s who are allowing the world to get to them. And then what do we do? We take it out on the people that we love the most that you have the opportunity to show up so differently because of this theory. And, you know, one of the things that I'm super excited about, too, is that all of the things that I am now talking about are being championed and supported by 50 years of research in neuroscience and some of the most renowned psychologists and psychiatrists and researchers in relationships, that this is actually how you work with the wiring of human behavior. And it's not in controlling each other. It's in truly letting people be who they are and who they're not, and learning how to settle yourself and manage your energy and your time so that you are bringing calming energy. You're very clear and confident and compassionate with people. You're not, like, taking it out on everybody. And so I love what you just said because I think your daughters are insanely lucky to be parented by you. And Drew and Chris and I were not those parents. We weren't because we didn't have the tools and we hadn't done the work that I see the two of you doing. And it impacts your children.

[B]

Well, it's interesting because, like, one of the reasons why we love hanging out with you guys so much is it's like a visual of, like, what our lives can be in 20 years. Like, literally, like, our kids will be the same age as your kids. We got to spend time with your daughter and her friends in Greece. Like, what the heck?

[A]

And, you know, Sawyer wrote this book with me.

[B]

Yes. And seeing that, and it's. It's just absolutely incredible. But one of the things that I think is so cool about this coming out and for so many people in my audience too who have kids, is imagine using this theory, using these words when your kids come home from school and say, you know, Felicity wore boys clothes today. Cool, let her. Or so and so was arguing with so and so. Great, let them. And I honestly think that like this is the opportunity of a lifetime to teach our kids how to let people be who they are, to allow that to not impact them and to really reframe. Like small minds talk about people, big minds talk about ideas and like let our kids experience that. And I just, I think that from a multi generational standpoint, even this weekend we were with some family members who are talking about, you know, so and so. And they did this and I was like, cool. And I was like, as my friend Mel would say, let them. And it. And you know what happens? And I want everyone to do this in a conversation. Conversation is it stops the conversation. It literally ends because there is nothing left to be said. And it allows you to actually go deeper on the things that you care about and matter. And it's just like I can hear your voice because I hear it all the time in my head just saying, cool, let them. Cool, let them.

[A]

And there's a couple things I want to unpack here because you know, this also is a boundary.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So when you say let them, it's the ultimate boundary. And here's what the boundary's at. It's a boundary between you and things you can't control.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's instantaneous. And then when you say let me, that's another boundary. And it's a boundary with yourself where you are not going to cross the line and waste time and energy on petty things or on being a little small minded person. You are going to pull your time and energy back and actually use it to align with what matters to you and to be a kinder and more compassionate person. And what's super cool about when you say let them and let me is since it really is about what you can control and what you can't, you now are valuing your time and you're valuing your energy because every single time you say it, you're acknowledging what the cost is here, which means you're also acknowledging how precious your time and energy is, which is why you protect it and you deploy it for good. And a second thing that I wanted to share that I'm super excited about and I'm going to Just share some of this right now. Because so many of the people that follow your work do have young kids. And it's this. So I spoke with just an extraordinary guy. Boy, do I wish I had met him when I was your age. His name is Dr. Stuart Ablon. Now, Dr. Stuart Ablon is a psychologist. He's a professor at Harvard Medical School. He runs Think Kids program at the number one research hospital on the planet, which is Mass General Brigham, part of the Harvard system in Boston. And he has been a psychologist for 30 years, working with children and his approach. And he wrote this guide to using the Let them theory as a resource inside the Let them Theory book. Because you can't just let your kids smear chocolate all over your kitchen or stay up all night or vape. There are times where you have to step in because of what your role is as a parent. But 50 years of clinical research in neuroscience shows that the exact same thing happens when you try to make an adult do something, as when you try to make a kid do something. And whenever you try to motivate, pressure, guilt, push, or like, just guilt somebody into changing, you don't actually motivate somebody to change. You create resistance to it. And he has this whole approach where let them is what you say as a parent. When your kid's behavior is driving you crazy. Okay, like you're at the end of your rope, your kid is tantruming, they won't go upstairs, or you're trying to be on a zoom call and they're doing their thing, you say let them, because you're acknowledging they're just a little kid that is not able to manage their emotions. Because managing your emotions is actually a skill, and nobody's born doing it. So when you say let them, you release control of their behavior. When you say let me, you remind yourself that your power is in the response to the behavior. And if you can respond in a way that's not reactive. And, you know, this is again, where I made all the mistakes. If my kids were upsetting me, I'd just scream at them. If I had let them, I'd be able to let go for a minute and not get triggered by them. And then I would say, let me. Let me respond like the mature adult. And he has this whole approach that I love, which is the let them theory. And parenting and neuroscience is really, don't ever try to make your kids do something you want to take approach that is work with them to do something. Because when you say, let me, and you settle yourself and you Think, okay, my job here, let me work with them. Meaning if they're throwing a tantrum. I've seen you do this, Jenna. You get on the floor, you put your arms around them, you're with them. I know you're upset. I know this. It's hard for me, too. And what do you think you want to do about it? That's his number one question. What do you think you want to do about. About it? Even your 4 year old has a sense of what they want to do about it. And now you're not screaming at them, you're not pushing them, you're not pressuring them, you're not guilting them, you're now with them, which creates connection. And actually, based on all of the 50 years of research, they're going to be influenced by you. And he has this theory about people. It's this philosophy that I believe is true. People do well when they can. And if somebody in your life is not doing well, whether it's an adult or a child, I want you to remember something. Everybody wants to do well. Everybody wants to be happy, everybody wants to thrive. If somebody's not doing well, they're exhibiting challenging behavior. I want you to start with the philosophy. They'd be doing well if they can. And if they're not doing well, it's not because they don't want to do well. It's because there's something in their way that makes them feel like they can't do it. And with kids, oftentimes, it's just being completely overwhelmed by your emotions and learning how to process them and move through them and do hard things is a skill. And it's true. It's why every adult's an 8 year old, because none of us were taught this. And so if you're not doing well, I want you to know something that it's likely not because you can't, it's because on some level you feel a little discouraged or you feel like it's not going to matter. And the let them theory is also going to help you because let's go back to why you listen to Jenna. Jenna is a person who makes you see bigger possibilities for yourself. And more importantly, through her example and through her teaching, she's actually giving you the roadmap. So you are getting the step by step of what to do to achieve your dreams, to make more money, to start the podcast, to monetize Pinterest, to be successful in affiliate marketing, to make enough money to take your kids on a trip, whatever it is that it like she has told you exactly what to do. And I'm here to tell you the only reason why you're not doing it is because of your fear of what other people are going to think that you copied somebody that, you know, what are you? What business do you have that they're going to think you're going to look stupid if you fail? These are all things you can't control. And so learning to just let them think negative thoughts and learning to let the nervousness and fear as you try new things and as you follow the formulas and the strategies Jen is teaching you that have worked for her, that work for millions of people. That's why they are formulas. Cause they work. If you allow the feelings to rise and fall and you learn how to just let those feelings rise and fall and not run you over, you'll no longer be paralyzed. You'll see yourself doing the little things that actually change everything. You know, I gotta share something because I think this is so important. I have a friend up here who spent all this time writing a book, and she even hired a consultant to help her sell the book. And she was talking to a publisher for a long time and they were all excited. And then she sent the proposal, put on all this work, and they said, sorry, no. And when she asked why, they said, well, you have no social media following. So she came to me for advice and I said, well, first things first. Go to Jenna. Take every course she has, do everything she says. And I want to say publicly, she told me the other day that she had done all this stuff that you recommended again in your courses. All this stuff. She was changing her godaddy account to like a professional account. And the dude on the phone for her website, Larry's like, wow, what have you been doing? She's like, what do you mean? He's like, well, in the last 30 days, you've gone from like 17 people visiting your website in a month to 319,000 people visiting you in the last 30 days. She's like, I almost dropped the phone, Mel. This stuff works. I'm like, well, no kidding it works. And she's like, why didn't I do this before? I'm like, because you were thinking about what people would think. And so again, you know, Jenna and I are in your life because we've been there. We have stopped ourselves for years. Luckily, Jenna figured it out way before I did. I mean, hell, I was still like a decade in Loserville for where Jenna is before I started having the breakthrough and changing my life. But you are so much more capable than you believe you are. And the reason why, if you're not happy or you're overwhelmed or you're tired or you're frustrated or you're just not seeing the results that you want, the problem isn't you. The problem is all this power you give to other people's thoughts and moods and disappointment and comparison and feeling like, you know, everybody else has somehow got what you want, which means you can't have it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're doing life backwards. I did, too. For 54 fricking years. Stop. Let them. Because other people can never actually block your way. Other people will never take what is meant for you. The only person in life who can block your way is you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

See, other people lead the way. Jenna and I do what we do because we are leading the way. We're holding the light high for you, saying, come on. Come on over here. You're not playing against anyone in life. You're playing with them. And if you understand that happiness and success and money and love and friendship, these are all in limitless supply, they're there for the taking. I didn't understand this Till I was 54 years old. If I saw Jenna has a podcast like, oh, for God's sakes, Jenna's already done it. She's been doing it for five years. She's got 100 million. How the hell. What do I have to say? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Mel. Let them. Let them be successful. Let them have the renovated kitchen. Let them get the nice new Bronco. Let them have the wedding in Lake Cuomo. Let them have the amazing birth announcements. Why? Because other people lead the way. And when you notice that you keep looking at people and comparing yourself, there is a message there. You want that for? You see, I don't compare myself, Jenna, to anybody that has a Lamborghini, because I don't want one.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So whoever you're comparing yourself to, that's getting you all riled up. Good. Thank them, because they're leading the way. You need to stop using comparison to torture yourself. And you need to actually live in reality that everything that other people have created, it's there for you to create, too. Figure out the formula, follow it. Let people think negative thoughts. Let people not understand. Let it take a long time, and just let other people lead the way. Because if somebody else has done it, you can do it, too. Now, it might not look the same. It may not happen on the same timeline, but if you Open yourself up to both that possibility and the fact that you're capable, you are capable through your actions and your attitude of achieving what you want. If you will just stop giving so much power to everybody else and making other people a problem. They're not a problem.

[B]

I have to tell you a story. So, Mel, we were on a girls trip a couple years ago, and we were talking about everything. I think people imagine us sitting around talking about, like, marketing, and that's like 2% of the conversations and everything else. We were talking about marriage and all the other things that women talk about. And afterwards, Mel, like, said, like, jenna, you have to work with my therapist. I was like, I've never done therapy in my entire life. I don't know why. I'm just afraid. I don't know who. I don't. I don't want to go through the process. And she, like, looked at me. She's like, my therapist is the smartest woman I've ever met in my life, and I'm going to connect you. And I really think this would be a great step. And anyways, fast forward now. I've been working with her over a year now. Family members of mine are working with her. I mean, the circle just continues in the sphere of influence is just absolutely amazing. But I was talking to our therapist yesterday, and I said, you know what's so funny, Anne, is I said, when Mel got interviewed by Oprah, I was exuding joy for her. Like, I could. It was palpable. Like, I told Mel, I texted her, I said, I ripped my mouth tape off, off in bed last night to tell Drew the news. That's how much I love you. Like, I was all snuggled in, ready to sleep, and I couldn't sleep because I was literally just like, oozing pure joy in celebrating a friend. And I said, what was interesting to me is that was a unique experience because I think women have been pitted up against each other. And I said, it was so interesting to sit in that thought and just hold that space of, like, pure joy without a shred of any other emotions creeping in of just, like, love for my friend. And she said, you're doing it like you're doing that work of what that is. You're literally following the let them theory in such a magical way. And I believe that women deeply crave that real ability to celebrate each other, and yet it is such a struggle. And so it was just so interesting to expand the awareness around that thought and that feeling of like, just nothing else creeping in but pure joy.

[A]

Jenna, I was a walking red flag as a friend. No, I'm serious. I was one of those people that desperately wanted to be happy for my friends, but I was so insecure and obsessed with what other people thought and just riddled with anxiety and not grounded in my values and not living my life the way that I do now, that absolutely anybody else's success made me jealous. Anybody else winning made me feel like a loser. And I know how enormous of a breakthrough and shift it is to truly feel this generosity of spirit. And for me, I'm again, 56. This is something I've only experienced in my life in the last year or two. And for me personally, I was only able to do it because I started to realize the truth. That that success or that moment that you see somebody else having it doesn't take anything from you.

[B]

No.

[A]

You know, like, if you're struggling to get pregnant and your good friend gets pregnant, their pregnancy does not rob you of yours. It doesn't prove that it's never gonna happen to you. Yes, it's a mentally healthy response to feel a little grief in that moment. You and I have both had miscarriages, and so we know kind of what it feels like to feel that disappointment. But being able to know two things are true at once, that there are gonna be times in your life. And certainly when my husband and I were struggling, like, I couldn't pay the mortgage, could barely get groceries on the table, as my friends started to hit that point where they're renovating their kitchens and they're buying the nice cars and they're moving to the nicer towns deep down somewhere, I was so happy for them. But the truth is, all I felt on the outside was, I fucking hate you. And why isn't it me? And when is it gonna be me? And life isn't fair, and why, like. But, like, just aimed it all back at myself. And so learning to truly let people live their lives and have their successes actually makes your life better. And it makes the successes come to you faster and richer. And so I think it's. Thank you for sharing that with me, because it feels liberating to go through life and authentically be able to celebrate what's happening for other people without using it as a battering ram to feel sorry for yourself. And this is something that I've been reflecting on a lot since that extraordinary experience of sitting down with my idol, Oprah Winfrey. I mean, I've been watching her career for 35 years more than any other human being on the planet. Other than Ann Daven, Oprah's work truly changed my life. I've used her tools, her magazines, I've read the book she's recommended. I learned from the experts. She truly showed me through the work that she did that there was something bigger that was possible. And so to sit across from her and finally meet her and have it happen in a time in my life where she really views me as a peer and that she was celebrating my work back to me. What was really interesting about that experience is she actually brought up the fact that she loved the parts around the let them theory, around jealousy and around being able to celebrate people. And that one of the things I've really admired about her friendship with Gayle is just how incredibly supportive Gail has always been of Oprah, just cheering from the rooftops. And I've always thought, I want to be a friend like that, but I didn't know how. And what I've realized now is that the how comes from knowing that you're actually waking up every day and you're taking one step toward the things that you care about. And there's been a lot of time where I would sit, Jenna, and you and I talk very openly about things. And I would be going like, okay, I just got named the fifth most followed podcast on Apple for 2023. Okay, I just wrote the single most successful self published audiobook in the world, the Five Second rule. When are bigger people going to, like, when's somebody going to write a newspaper article? Like, I felt kind of like you and I have talked a lot about, like, you know, we're kind of out of the mass media and that's okay, but it'd be nice to be acknowledged, you know, it'd be nice. And what I realized in the experience with Oprah, and I'm going to share this because I think it might help you if you're at a point where you've been working really hard and you feel invisible, or you're working very hard to make changes and nothing's sticking, or you have realized you're in the wrong friend group and you've been working hard to make new friends, or you've been working on your own self improvement and you're not seeing the positive impact in your family yet. What I realized is that if things aren't happening for you when you want them to happen, it's for one reason. It's not meant to happen yet. You're not supposed to be in that friend group yet. You're not supposed to have the success yet. This isn't supposed to be easy right now. It is not time for you to meet that person or have that article written or make the million dollars or whatever it is. And the reason why is twofold. Number one, there are important lessons that you need to learn based on where you are right now. And you are gonna stay where you are right now until you actually get the lesson that's meant for you. And when you embrace that, it helps you with patience. And the second reason why it hasn't happened yet is I truly believe that there is something much bigger or cooler or more special or more magical or more creative that is in store for you. And that you are being held in this place because you are training for something bigger. And you have to trust that. And I offer that because learning to say, let them, let them not reply. Let them not buy this version of my product. Let them not include me in that friend group. Let them not see the incredible work that I'm doing. And recognizing it, it allows you to release the control that you don't have. But then let me remind myself that I know who I am. And if I just keep waking up every day and I keep chipping away at this thing, and if I stay true to my values and proud of myself and I'm a kind person to other people, my life is taking me somewhere extraordinary. And I'm gonna trust in that and keep going.

[B]

This is so good. I saw this post the other day and I just want to share this while we close out, but it was Simon Sinek and he was talking about how true friends, you know, you often hear, like, who would you call at 2am or who do you go to when you need help or you're in a tough spot? And he said, I'd argue that the true friends are the ones that you go to first that you know will celebrate with you. And I think that so many women crave that and they don't have that. And I'm just like, so grateful. Oh, I could cry. So grateful that you are that for me and for so many other people. But thank you for that and thank you for the work you do and thank you for just the invitations you offer because it's life changing for me and for everybody else. We're so lucky. We're so lucky to have you.

[A]

I appreciate that. And again, you know, Jenna, you're an easy person to celebrate and you also give so freely. And I do feel, you know, we've talked a lot about energy. What's so important about the conversation today is that you have no idea how much power you have. Like, all it takes is one person in a family to change the entire dynamic, and that person's you. All it takes is one person to create unprecedented wealth in your family, and that person is you. And learning how to be generous in spirit, learning how to celebrate other people and letting them win and letting them know how much you care. You better get ready, because there's an avalanche of goodness that comes back to you when you shift the way you use your power and when you start pouring your time and energy not only into things that are positive, but also you start using it in a way that works with the laws of human nature. Because all of us want to feel accepted and seen and loved and celebrated. And when you let people be who they are and who they're not, you actually give them the freedom to be themselves, and they're going to feel more connected to you and they're going to trust you more. And the breezier you are, I find kind of with the. Let them think negative thoughts. Let them be disappointed. You know, let them succeed. And let me learn the more you have that, the more flexible you are and the more abundant things get. And, you know, I wish I had known this at your age. Like, I think it's so cool, Jenna, that you're literally in your 30s, you're 20 years younger than me, and you're already figuring this out. And that means your daughters are starting to figure this out at 6 and 4, whereas my daughters are 25 and 23 and sorting through it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so the ripple effect of everything that you're doing in the world and the work that you're doing to improve yourself and to just shift your energy, it changes everything. That's how powerful you are. I love you, Jenna.

[B]

I love you, too. Where can everybody get your new book? Learn more. Listen to the show.

[A]

I'm sad to say, I think it's sold out. Like, good luck getting it.

[B]

Well, that's what happens when Oprah tells people to not just buy one, but buy five. So thank you, Oprah.

[A]

It's literally the single Random House said it's the single fastest selling book in terms of velocity, because I think it's what the world needs right now because so much feels out of your control. And this is a simple reminder that no, no, no, no, no, no. The power's not out there. It's actually in here. And there's so much in your control and in your power to shift things. And that's what this is all about. Reminding you of who you are, and so you can find it, I think, anywhere. They're literally reprinting them as fast as they can, and it's on audible. But, you know, you also have me right here with Jenna, and so there's nothing you need to do. You can listen to this conversation. You can share it with friends and family. You can take everything we taught you and start feeling the freedom and the peace and the power that comes from saying, let them and let me. And when you find the bright green cover, if you want it, you can get it. And if not, let them.

[B]

Oh, Mel, I love you. I'm so excited for this book to get out into the world, and it's been so fun walking behind the scenes with you through the whole process and just watching it unfold. It just. We're birthing this baby. It's like a book baby, and I'm so excited to just accept, expect all the good things that'll come from it. So thank you.

[A]

It's the single best thing I've ever done. In fact, it's my legacy. There's no doubt. It is my legacy. I've been afraid to get on airplanes because I'm like, it's done.

[B]

So now what? Oh, I love you.

[A]

Let me, you know, let me go. Let me do this. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Anyway, I love you.

[B]

There's so much more I want to talk through with Mel on this show, and I'm sure she'll be back. She has changed my life in a million ways. I first saw her speak on a stage eight years ago, and that was when I was introduced to her and to now have her as a dear friend, someone I travel the world with, someone whose family I know, someone who I'm hopping on a zoom call with in three hours to talk about strategy. She has absolutely changed my life, and I'm sure somehow she's changed yours. And I'm just so excited about this book and it getting out into the world and getting into the hands of those who need it. I'm so excited for the parents that can teach it to their children. I am so excited for us to let go and release the control on things that we've never been able to control and to bring that power back into ourselves so that we can use that power for energy, for good, for change, for lighting up the world in the ways that we want to see it lit up. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Gold Digger podcast. If you know somebody who could benefit from this conversation, please take a split second and hit Share Sharing this episode far and wide is how we allow people to be the change and make the changes that we all deeply desire that allow us to be ourselves fully and wholly loved and just My gratitude for Mel. Ugh, it can explode out of my chest. I'm so grateful for this conversation. I'm grateful that you got to listen. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Gold Digger Podcast. Until next time, keep on digging your biggest goals. Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger podcast. I hope today's episode fueled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action, and realigned you with your true north in life and business. If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to golddiggerpodcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more. And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show. We'll see you next time. Gold Diggers.