865: Taming Shiny Object Syndrome: Focus, Structure, and Scaling Strategies for Entrepreneurs

Summary

Episode Summary: The Goal Digger Podcast Episode 865 Title: Taming Shiny Object Syndrome: Focus, Structure, and Scaling Strategies for Entrepreneurs
Host: Jenna Kutcher
Guest: Diana Toronto
Release Date: March 31, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 865 of The Goal Digger Podcast, host Jenna Kutcher engages in a transformative coaching session with Diana Toronto, a business and marketing coach navigating the complexities of entrepreneurship with ADHD. The episode delves deep into the challenges of maintaining focus, overcoming imposter syndrome, and managing the ever-present lure of shiny objects that can derail business progress. Through their candid conversation, Jenna and Diana explore actionable strategies to help entrepreneurs streamline their efforts, create sustainable systems, and scale their businesses without succumbing to burnout.

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Guest Background and Current Challenges

Diana Toronto introduces herself as an ADHD marketer and business coach based near Salt Lake City. With a background in MLM and social media management, Diana has evolved into a coach who specializes in supporting ADHD entrepreneurs. Despite her expertise and passion, she finds herself ensnared in a cycle of juggling multiple ideas and unfinished projects, leading to feelings of stagnation and overwhelm. Her primary concerns revolve around sustaining momentum, avoiding burnout, and effectively channeling her creative energies into tangible business growth.

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Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and Perfectionism

One of the core discussions centers on imposter syndrome and perfectionism, common hurdles that impede entrepreneurial progress.

Jenna Kutcher [06:46]: "One thing that has been a game changer for me, especially as somebody who feels very creative, I have a lot of ideas, I get excited about a lot of things, but I also want them to look a certain way. I've really had to lean on Pareto's principle."

Pareto's Principle, which posits that 80% of results come from 20% of efforts, becomes a pivotal framework in their conversation. Jenna emphasizes prioritizing impactful activities over striving for perfection in every detail. By focusing on the "needle movers," entrepreneurs can make meaningful progress without getting bogged down by the quest for flawlessness.

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Managing Shiny Object Syndrome

Diana’s struggle with Shiny Object Syndrome—constantly jumping from one idea to another without completing projects—is a central theme.

Jenna Kutcher [13:56]: "One of the things that has been so helpful for me is when I get really excited and when I have an idea, I commit to seeing it through all the way to completion."

Jenna advises setting time-limited commitments for new projects. By assigning a specific duration—such as a 90-day experiment—entrepreneurs can foster discipline and reduce the temptation to abandon projects prematurely. This approach not only curbs distractions but also enhances the likelihood of seeing projects through to fruition.

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Creating Systems and Structures

The conversation shifts to the importance of systems and structures in managing a business efficiently, especially for those with ADHD.

Jenna Kutcher [18:00]: "When I started the podcast, it was just one episode a week. It was a total experiment. And I said, okay, I'm not going to over commit. I'm going to say I'm going to do this for the next 90 days and just see how it feels."

Establishing predictable rhythms and batch working—grouping similar tasks together to enhance focus and productivity—are highlighted as effective strategies. Jenna shares her personal journey of integrating structure into her business, which paradoxically unlocked greater creativity and freedom rather than restricting it.

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Transitioning from VIP Days to Group Coaching

Diana expresses her desire to transition from intensive VIP days to more scalable business models like group coaching or online courses to manage her energy levels better.

Jenna Kutcher [30:30]: "If the format isn't working for you, it also might not be working for your client. Knowing who you work for, it might be beneficial to transition into group settings where you can facilitate rather than individually lead."

Jenna suggests reformatting existing offers rather than creating entirely new ones. By adapting VIP days into group coaching sessions, Diana can maintain the value she provides while reducing personal exhaustion. This transition allows for scalability and ensures that her clients continue to receive high-quality support without overwhelming Diana.

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Implementing a Value Ladder

The concept of a value ladder is introduced as a method to structure offers in a progressive manner, guiding clients through increasingly comprehensive services.

Jenna Kutcher [36:34]: "Imagine a funnel where someone starts with a free guide, moves to a mini-course, then to a VIP day, and eventually into group coaching or one-on-one sessions."

Creating a value ladder helps in organizing offers logically, making it easier for both the entrepreneur and the client to identify suitable programs based on current needs and readiness. This structured approach aids in maintaining focus on existing offers while providing clear pathways for client progression.

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Batch Working and Establishing Business Rhythms

Jenna advocates for batch working and establishing consistent business rhythms to enhance productivity and reduce stress.

Jenna Kutcher [41:32]: "Once you figure out and establish the rhythm of your business and how you're going to show up and serve, it's really easy to anticipate. When you can anticipate, you can plan, and when you plan, you can create."

By identifying and adhering to regular cycles—such as weekly content creation or monthly planning sessions—entrepreneurs can stay ahead of their tasks, minimize last-minute rushes, and create a stable foundation for business operations.

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Maintaining Discipline with ADHD

Balancing business commitments with personal life, especially for those with ADHD, requires deliberate strategies to maintain discipline and prevent burnout.

Jenna Kutcher [45:55]: "If you feel like you're missing out on time with your family, challenge yourself to not create anything new for the next six months and focus on marketing and maximizing existing offers."

Jenna emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and prioritizing time with family. By limiting the introduction of new projects and focusing on promoting and optimizing existing ones, entrepreneurs can achieve a healthier work-life balance while still driving business growth.

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Key Insights and Takeaways

1. Prioritize Impact Over Perfection: Utilize Pareto's Principle to focus on activities that yield the most significant results.
2. Commit to Time-Limited Projects: Setting deadlines for new initiatives can help prevent constant shifting between ideas.
3. Establish Systems and Rhythms: Implementing consistent business processes and batch working enhances productivity and creativity.
4. Transition Offers Thoughtfully: Adapt existing services into more scalable formats like group coaching to manage energy levels and increase accessibility.
5. Create a Value Ladder: Structuring offers in a progressive manner facilitates client progression and maintains business focus.
6. Maintain Work-Life Balance: Setting boundaries and prioritizing existing offers can help in achieving a sustainable equilibrium between personal life and business.

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Conclusion

Episode 865 of The Goal Digger Podcast offers invaluable insights into managing the multifaceted challenges of entrepreneurship, especially for those grappling with ADHD. Through Jenna Kutcher and Diana Toronto's heartfelt dialogue, listeners receive practical strategies to tame shiny object syndrome, overcome perfectionism, and implement effective systems that foster both business growth and personal well-being. By embracing these approaches, entrepreneurs can create structured, sustainable businesses that align with their passions and life goals.

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Notable Quotes

• Jenna Kutcher [06:46]: "When we focus on perfection, we miss the opportunity to focus on the impact that our work can make."
• Jenna Kutcher [13:56]: "Commit to seeing it through all the way to completion."
• Jenna Kutcher [18:00]: "Establishing a predictable rhythm and batch working has unlocked my creativity and freedom."
• Jenna Kutcher [30:30]: "Transitioning into group settings allows you to facilitate rather than individually lead."
• Jenna Kutcher [36:34]: "A value ladder helps in organizing offers logically, making it easier for both you and your clients."
• Jenna Kutcher [41:32]: "When you can anticipate, you can plan, and when you plan, you can create."
• Jenna Kutcher [45:55]: "Focus on marketing and maximizing existing offers to achieve a healthier work-life balance."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of Episode 865, providing actionable insights and strategies for entrepreneurs seeking to enhance focus, structure, and scalability in their businesses while maintaining personal well-being.

Transcript

[Jenna Kutcher]

When I get really excited and when I have an idea, I commit to seeing it through all the way to completion. And one of the things that has been really helpful is is once I get a rhythm down, I try to create systems, processes, just anything to lighten the load of that.

[Diana Toronto]

I'm Jenna Kutcher, your host of the Gold Digger Podcast. I escaped the corporate world at the age of 23 with nothing more than a 300 camera from Craigslist and a dream. Now I'm running a seven figure online business that feels even better than it looks. All from my house in small town Minnesota. With my family here, we value time as our currency. We mix the woo and the work and we are in the pursuit of building businesses that give us the freedom to live lives that we love. I've always loved turning big goals into reality and I'm here to help you do the same. This isn't just a peek behind the curtain. Come along with me and my guests as we tear the whole curtain down. Every week we tackle practical, no fluff marketing strategies and host honest discussions on what works and what doesn't. Join me and my expert guests for actionable insights to help you grow your dream business with confidence. Pull up a seat and get ready to be challenged, inspired and empowered. This is the Gold Digger Podcast.

[Jenna Kutcher]

It's time for another Gold Digger coaching session. I'll tell you one of the things I cherish the most about the Gold Digger podcast is getting to connect with the brilliant, passionate entrepreneurs inside of this community who are chasing their dreams while navigating their own unique challenges. Today, I am so excited to welcome Diana Toronto to the show. Diana is a business and marketing coach with a heart for helping people build their dream businesses. But lately she's been feeling stuck in a cycle that I know so many of us can relate to. Diana has been spinning her wheels for the past year, juggling too many ideas and unfinished projects. With her ADHD pulling her in a hundred directions, she struggles to stay focused long enough to actually see her ideas through. Her big question is how do entrepreneurs succeed without burning out? And how can she finally narrow her focus, finish what she starts, and create momentum in her business? In this coaching session, Diana and I dive into the unique challenges of balancing creativity with focus. We explore practical ways she can move from feeling scattered to streamlined by focusing on what lights her up and how to create systems and processes around it. And we talk about simplifying her offers and breaking her big ideas into manageable, actionable steps. I share some of the systems and strategies that have worked for me. And together we map out a strategy to help Diana stay motivated and consistent, even when distractions arise. If you have ever felt like you are juggling too many projects, jumping from one idea to the next, or struggling to turn your big dreams into action, this episode is going to speak to your heart. Let's dig into Diana's journey and uncover strategies you can use to create clarity, focus, and momentum in your own business. Welcome back to another episode of the Gold Digger podcast where we are doing a coaching episode with one of our amazing listeners. So, Diana, welcome to the podcast.

[Diana Toronto]

Thank you so much, Jenna. I'm so excited to be here. I really appreciate it.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Okay, so give us a little bit of the lay of the land of who you are and what you do and where you're at in your business journey, and then we'll dive into the questions that you've prepared.

[Diana Toronto]

Perfect. So I'm Diana Toronto. I'm based near Salt Lake City, grew up in California, and I am an ADHD marketer and business coach. So I specifically help ADHD entrepreneurs that are looking to grow their business, looking to scale, need a little extra support, some accountability, and some marketing strategies to really support them. I'm a wife and mama. I have two boys. My oldest is 12 and my youngest is turning 10. So we're out of single digits, so that's going to be really weird. And I'm married, like I said, to a wonderful man, a physical therapist who's awesome, totally supportive of my business. So that's kind of me. And like I said, my business model is really. I currently am offering one to one VIP days, but I'm launching a group program coming up in the next six weeks. And so I'm hoping to get some support from you today on that.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Awesome. Okay. How did you get into doing what you're doing? I'm just so curious. Before we dive in. Yeah.

[Diana Toronto]

So I was in the MLM world for a few years as a stay at home mama and realized, you know, just burning out, needing something new. ADHD kicked in for me and I started to think, okay, well what could I do with all of this, you know, sales and, you know, social media skills that I have learned. And so I started looking into becoming a social media manager. Long story short, ended up taking a course learning how to be an agency owner for Facebook ads management and just really invested in my education all along the way and finally got to this place where I was like, you know what, I know my stuff. And I'm finding that a lot of the entrepreneurs that are coming to me for ads have ADHD and are needing more support than I typically would give another, you know, ads management client. Yeah, a little more back end support almost. And so, long story short, that's how I've kind of ended up here.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Wow, that's so cool. I love it. Okay, let's dive on in. You prepared some questions, so let's dive on in. And as we go, you can interrupt or we can, you know, ask clarifying questions along the way. And I always remind every coaching client to put this through your own lens of what makes sense for you. I'll give my best advice, but also it takes team to make this happen.

[Diana Toronto]

Awesome. Okay, so my first question. A lot of my questions today are almost about mindset. I know that for me personally and for other of your listeners perhaps there's a lot of mindset issues that come up when you are a business owner. So the first question I have is how do you make progress in your business without letting imposter syndrome and perfectionism get in the way of that progress?

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yes. Okay, so this is such a common question and just a huge pain point. And I think it's really interesting because I often look back at to the era of when I was starting with a lot of admiration because nobody had their crap together as they do now. And so for people that are in more of the earlier stages of business, they have a front row seat to successful companies. They get to see beautiful brands, they get to see things that they might consider perfect. Whereas I feel like when I was starting out, we were all very imperfectly showing up and figuring it out as we went. One of the things that has been a game changer for me, especially as somebody who feels very creative, I have a lot of ideas, I get excited about a lot of things, but I also want them to look a certain way is I've really had to lean on Pareto's principle. Let me explain how this plays into this. So I did a whole episode about Pareto's principle, but it's essentially that idea of 80% of our results come from 20% of our effort. And what I think is a misconception when it comes to business is a lot of times when we focus on perfection, we miss the opportunity to focus on the impact, the impact that our work can make, the impact of showing up can make, the impact of starting the thing can make. And so when we can prioritize progress over perfection, I feel like it gets us out of our head. And so Pareto's principle To me, has been extremely huge, especially since becoming a mom, where I feel like my time evaporated. I no longer had all the hours in the day to do all the things. And so really looking at, okay, what are the needle movers? Whether it's the activities that I'm doing or the work that I'm creating, what's actually generating the results? And this is true in so many areas of business. Whether it's your marketing efforts or the actual offers that you have available to the public, oftentimes, 20% of our efforts are leading to 80% of our results. And so one thing that has helped me so much when I've gotten prone to this idea of perfection or kind of held myself back because I want something to be perfect, is, like, what would this progress look like? And would it get me closer to the result? And so I love just getting things out into the world. Like, sometimes people will message me, and they'll be like, this email had a typo in it. And I'm like, I'm still an imperfect human over here. Like, this is an actual human writing this. And so, like, I would rather show up with imperfections than not show up at all. And I think so many people are just waiting. They're waiting on the perfect brand or the to lose 10 pounds or the perfect photo shoot or whatever. And we're so focused on what things look like that we're missing, like, the impact that our work can make. So just to tie all of this up with a pretty bell, when we're focused on perfection, I think we're really missing the opportunity to progress. And I think that progress is what actually builds up the confidence that we need to keep showing up. And so it's just a pivot in your mindset, which you're 100% right. You're like, I'm so stuck in the mindset area. And that's where I think a lot of us are. So just want to say, you're not alone in that.

[Diana Toronto]

Well, I knew that the challenge has always been, I've heard of Pareto's principle. I want to enact it in my business. And you're right. It's. It's just a hesitation and switching to no. The progress is more important, I think.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Right.

[Diana Toronto]

So that's just something I. I need to work on for sure.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yeah.

[Diana Toronto]

I bet you didn't start your business to spend your days stressing over things like payroll. Like, I've been there before tax deadlines, creeping up, wondering if I filled out something wrong. It is not Fun. That's why you've got to try Gusto. Gusto is the all in one platform that takes care of payroll, benefits and HR so that you can actually focus on your business. Whether you're paying W2s or 1099s, Gusto makes it simple. You can even offer health insurance and 401k options that work for nearly any budget. Gusto automatically files and pays all of your taxes across federal, state and local levels so you don't have to cross your fingers and hope that you got it right. Plus, their support team is made up of confident certified HR experts, so help is always there when you need it. Over 400,000 businesses, including mine, trust Gusto because it's just easy. You set it, forget it and get back to doing what you love. If you've been putting off getting this part of your business figured out, Gusto's got you right. Now they're offering three months free when you run your first payroll. Head to Gusto.com goal digger to get started. That's Gusto.com Golddigger it's 2025 and we all know how loud the B2B marketing space has gotten. It's not just enough to run ads. You need to make sure that they're actually reaching the right people. That's why I love LinkedIn ads. You're not just throwing your message out and hoping it sticks. You can get super specific targeting by job title industry or even the exact company you want to work with. There are over 130 million decision makers and 10 million C level execs on LinkedIn. These are the people who can actually say yes to your offer. And it's not just who you reach, it's the results you get. In the tech industry, LinkedIn ads delivered up to five times the return on ad spend compared to other platforms. I mean, 79% of B2B content marketers say LinkedIn gives them the best paid media results.

[Jenna Kutcher]

So if you're ready to cut through.

[Diana Toronto]

The noise and get your ads in front of the people who matter, LinkedIn ads is the way to go. Start converting your B2B audience into high quality leads today. We'll even give you a hundred dollar credit on your next. Go to LinkedIn.com goal to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com goal. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be, to be.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Welcome to the club girl. What is your next question?

[Diana Toronto]

So you talked a lot about having a bunch of ideas, right? And so for me, I really struggle with how am I Going to choose just one. You know, I have shiny object syndrome, so I'm always jumping from thing to thing, offer to offer in my business. And the number one challenge that I'm really having is sticking with it, right? Because I have adhd. So I get excited. I want to put all my energy into this SLO or into this mini course, or into this lead magnet or into the, you know, all the marketing pieces I get so excited about. And then there's a shiny new object before the first project is finished, right? So how can I focus in on just one idea, one offer, one space, when I have all of those ideas pulling me in a million directions? I see that you do this so successfully and so I'm curious as to what you do to kind of stay focused.

[D]

Yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Oh, I love this question so much. It's actually interesting. One of my listeners to this podcast recently had published a video and she was analyzing and deep diving a few different female leaders in the business space. And she was saying, like, these are the things that you wouldn't know just from looking at them. And one of them was a trend across all of us, was that we got really good at one thing before we moved on to the next. And I have seen this in so many areas of my business. And I think too, it's hard because we're multi passionate, multi hyphenate people. Nobody can put us in a box, right? Like, that is just our MO in the most beautiful way. But also it can cause a lot of confusion both for ourselves and for our audiences. And so one of the things that has been so helpful for me is when I get really excited and when I have an idea, I commit to seeing it through all the way to completion. And one of the things that has been really helpful is, is once I get a rhythm down, I try to create systems, processes, just anything to lighten the load of that. So, for example, when I started the podcast, it was just one episode a week. It was a total experiment. And I said, okay, I'm not going to over commit. I'm not going to say I'm going to do this until the end of time. I'm going to do this for the next 90 days and just see how it feels. And so two things here. One is, especially for people that are prone to shiny object syndrome, do not create offers, experiences or projects that have no end date. Because to us, that is like the biggest killer of creativity. If you don't feel like you have an out, you're likely to start hating that thing right away. I had a friend who has shiny object syndrome and told me, she told me she was launching a podcast. And I said, how about this? How about you commit to 10 episodes and just do one, quote, season of the podcast before you decide if you want to do it ongoing? Or I had another friend who wanted to do a mastermind that was a year long, and I said, why don't you just do it for a quarter or six months before you commit to a year long so that you don't trap yourself into an offer that you don't actually want to deliver on. And so that would be the first piece of advice, is to create opportunities for you to exit the things if they aren't in alignment or if they don't fit. I don't want you to hear that, like, you can just walk away from every project half finished and never finish anything, because I think that can also happen. And so to avoid that from happening, figure out ways to commit on just one thing and go really deep on it and get really good at it. Because a lot of times, I think when we remove a lot of the complexity and we can see the easier systems within it, it's a lot easier for us to follow through. And for people like you and I, a lot of times we crave chaos. We like to throw chaos into the mix of things, even when it's unnecessary. And so I have learned to love having structure and systems when in the past, that felt stifling to me. Now that unlocks my freedom, my creativity in ways that I never thought before. And so when I think of the different areas of my business, I didn't just start my business blogging every day, podcasting twice a week, showing up on social three times a day, being on LinkedIn, like, I did not do all of those things at once. I was very linear and doing one thing at a time until I had a system and a process in place that would either allow me to get help and support in it or make it a lot lighter of a lift. And so those would be the two pieces of advice that I have. Do you have any questions about that?

[Diana Toronto]

Yeah. So I hear you talking about systems and getting those set in place. And for me, I hear that. And probably just like you and you started out, like, my initial reaction is, you know, like, I don't want to do that. And so how did you, like, how did you make that transition, I guess, into, okay, I can follow these systems, I can follow through. Like, what was the missing piece? I guess, like, what changed that for you?

[Jenna Kutcher]

Okay, I Felt the same way. So here's a funny story. So when I had my first daughter nearly six years ago, or I guess over six years ago, I finally hired someone who is really good at ops and just figuring out, like, the business. Like, she was my integrator. And I remember her asking, like, what project management system do you use? And I was like, we don't have one. And she's like, when do you do team calls? And I was like, I don't like calls. I don't like being roped into commitments. I don't know. And so she walked in to like, what in the heck? How is this business even running? Type vibes. I'm sure you see this on the back end of a lot of your clients, and perhaps it might be the same for your business as well. And I felt the same way. Any sort of system and structure, it literally felt like I was being pinched into a box that I couldn't climb out of. Like, it felt so stifling and paralyzing. And I've really had to work hard to reframe that. I think motherhood forced me a lot of ways to reframe that where I don't have all the time in the world to be doing this. And there are ways that these things are supporting me and getting the most impactful work done first. But I also have realized that you don't have to have your entire business systemized. You don't have to have standard operating procedures for every single thing. But in the areas where you might be resistant to do the work, or you might add unnecessary complexity, or you might have a hard time letting go of and letting someone step in, when you build out those things, it allows you to have more space and time to be creative, which is honestly what I think is our superpower. And so a lot of times we can't even unlock our creativity because we're so busy chasing our tail, responding to the inbox, hitting up slacks, and doing all these different things. And so the more structure I've added.

[D]

Into my business, the more I felt like I've been able to be creative. And so it was actually the opposite impact that I was anticipating in terms of offering in some of those systems and structures.

[Jenna Kutcher]

So now I love systems and structure.

[D]

I love having, you know, this is the way that our brand does this. This is how we do it. This is the start to finish thing, so that either I can hand off some of the things that I no.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Longer want to do, or I don't.

[D]

Feel called to do to other people. Or so that I can do, like the deep work and have the freedom to do it knowing what the terms are. I think boundaries are actually a huge blessing for people with ADHD because we know no limits and we can go, you know, balls to the wall on all the things. And so I feel like boundaries actually.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Give us a safe container to create in.

[Diana Toronto]

Yeah. Okay, so what I'm hearing is that there was a little bit of just like getting a little support and accountability maybe, and then recognizing how wonderful and how impactful it could be for your business and time saving, etc.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yes. And it just, it changed the way that I look at things as well, because now everything is a rinse and repeat pattern. And so it doesn't feel so unpredictable and out of control, which I think is something that some of us secretly crave is that chaos. But I think that there is so much peace in being able to kind of know what's coming next and what that looks like. And so, again, it's like reframing it from being, like, stifling to have it being freeing and like, kind of changing the way that we look at some of those things. And again, you don't have to have structure and processes and systems in every area of your life, but if you can put it in to a certain few places, I think it will just unlock a lot of the reasons why you became an entrepreneur in the first place, which is to have the freedom to be creative, to try new things to explore.

[Diana Toronto]

Yeah. Okay. I love that. Thank you. Okay, so my next question then would be jumping back just a little bit. I have so many ideas and passions, and so, like I said, I have shiny object syndrome. I'm jumping from thing to thing. Even if I can, like, you know, embrace that accountability and getting structured. How do you know when you've created an offer that is the one, the one offer you should focus on? You talked earlier about, you know, Pareto's principle and getting focused. So how do I know which one is the one to focus on if I'm kind of bent all over and I don't necessarily have a bunch of data necessarily to help me make those kind of decisions.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yes. Okay, so I have a challenge for you. So I recently started doing private coaching for a few different clients who are friends of mine who I know their businesses inside and out. And one of the trends that I noticed is that there is this deep desire that if I am not creating something new, I am no longer relevant or I am known. This isn't exciting. And so I have Been teaching people how to dig for gold in the business that is currently standing today without any new offers. And I think there are so many people just like you, Dianna, who are literally sitting on gold mines and beautiful offers that were created with so much energy and excitement that never really got the full attention it deserved in order to make the impact that it was intended to make. And so what I would do is if I were you, I would make a little inventory, like a forensic style inventory of what offers you have. And then I would sit down and make a little promotional calendar and figure out like, okay, because what's so fascinating to me is that we spend like 90% of our time creating these offers and 10% of our time marketing them. And again, we could flip it in Pareto's principle and be like, what if we spent 80% of our time marketing these offers and just 20% of our time creating them? How would that change the outcome and the results? And I think that is like where the gold lies. And so something that's so interesting about me, who is also shiny object syndrome, who is also easily excitable, is that I've had to one, get really clear on what ideas are meant for me. And this was something I had to learn. Basically diving off the deep end when I started attending masterminds where, you know, one person over here has a super amazing membership site and then this person does in person events and then this person has a hundred thousand dollar mastermind and like all these things and it's like, okay, I could do any of those things but like what is actually in alignment with what I say matters the most and what I truly want for my life in business. So one is getting really clear at filtering. And something I would maybe consider is if you have a lot of different voices in your brain as to what is the way to run the business. Like you said you have like the mini course and then you could do the group coaching and then you could do X, Y and Z is like one, how do we kind of quiet those voices a little bit so that you can hear your own voice again? But then two, how do we look at what is already created and give it the time and attention it deserves to make the impact that it was intended to make. And so for me what is interesting is that since I became a mom, my business has been rinse and repeat for the last six years. And this idea alone would have bored me to sleep if you would have told me this six years ago. But what it has done is it has unlocked the Freedom and the life that I really wanted as a mother. And so I've had to take some of those brilliant ideas and put them on the shelf, so to speak, and say, you got to hang out for a little while until I have more bandwidth for you. If you're still around when I get the time, we'll see if we can make something. But it's also made me have to get excited. Excited about the marketing of the ideas.

[D]

And not just the idea itself.

[Jenna Kutcher]

And so one of the things that.

[D]

I've been doing with my coaching clients is like, okay, how do we get back excited about, like, the creative, like, what are different ways you could talk about this offer? What is something that would make you feel really good? A new sales page. Ooh, that feels really exciting and fresh, Something you're excited to share. What if it's new copy? And so a lot of times we are spending so much time creating and we're not giving it the breath it deserves to get it out into the world. And so if I were you, I would create a forensic style. Just a look into. Here are what my offers are and I would map them out onto your calendar and give them the breath they deserve. And I bet you will see Pareto's principle at play. Without a doubt that one of your offers is going to be the standout one. Now, I don't want to die being the Pinterest lady or the email list lady. I love that I teach those things. I am very passionate about the topics that I teach on, but I don't necessarily think that is my life's calling or my purpose on the planet. However, they are incredible offers that help people get the impact that I want. Being seen, being connected, being heard, getting their dreams out. And so don't look at your offers.

[Jenna Kutcher]

And downplay what they can do for people and then figure out how you can really promote them in a new way.

[Diana Toronto]

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Okay, I love that. So that kind of leads into another question though. How, like if I, for example, I've been running one to one VIP days doing one to one coaching and I currently love my one to one coaching clients. They're amazing. You know, we meet together once a week. It's awesome. My challenge is those VIP days. Those work really well and they're a good offer. The challenge I have with them is that they're a long day. That's difficult for somebody with adhd. You know, my executive function goes down, my creativity goes down, my ability to focus goes down as the day progresses. And I really want to give 100% to that client. Right?

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yeah.

[Diana Toronto]

And so the number one thing I'm noticing is that I'm just totally exhausted by the end of a VIP day. So I would like to shift what I teach in my VIP day and shift it more into like a group coaching or because there's so much valuable information in that, or turn it into a course. So, so that I don't have that exhaustion and that Overwhelm and the intensity. So if I'm going to take that offer and transform it without cheating, like you were talking, you know, like, without just having one more new shiny object, how. How can I make that transition seamless? Like, what tips or tricks would you suggest for somebody who's in a similar situation to me?

[Jenna Kutcher]

Okay, so I'm first going to challenge you in a hopefully good way. It sounds like you love the VIP days. You just need a different format. And I would also say that if the format isn't working for you, it also might not be working for your client, knowing who you work for. And so I would first consider, before adding in group coaching or a new offer, consider changing the format or making it to where you're like, okay, here's our schedule. At this point of the call, we're going to do walk and talk, or, you know, just mixing it up in and using and leveraging what you know about ADHD to help show them, hey, I'm an authority in this space and I understand what you're going to be going through. Or we're going to take a 45 minute break. I want you to just recharge, go inward, get back in touch with your energy before we connect again. Or maybe you just do like two half days where you capitalize on when your energy is the best so that they get the best of you and you get the best of them. And so I would just first challenge that and say, like, you lit up when you were talking about that. I think you know how impactful those days are, and I think that you see that with your clients. And so I know that feeling of, like, suiting up for battle. When you look at your work schedule for the day and you're like, I even told Drew today. I was like, I have four interviews. When I come in, I'm probably not going to want to talk for a little while. Just give me my own space and time. And he was like, okay, got it. Like, where? I just kind of prefaced it, like, I'm putting a lot of output out. Like, I just need a little bit of time to myself. And so, you know, again, I think this is a very common thing. And so I would just say set up those days in ways that are conducive to your energy, but also your client's energy before you even think about adding on another thing. But one other thing I would consider is if you have one to one clients, one natural extension of that offer would then be to do group coaching. So it wouldn't even have to be with new clients where you get concerned with serving each person exactly where they're at with their individualized needs. Because I think that can do a number on our brain as well. Of like, I want to make this worth it for you and I want to make sure you're getting what you need and you're getting what you need and you're getting what you need. And so potentially consider having those one to one clients then go into some sort of group setting where everyone can benefit and then you become more of a facilitator than a leader. Because I have just seen so many beautiful facilitators in my life where they're running masterminds. And yes, people are joining because they're leading it, but not necessarily because of their leadership, but because of their ability to facilitate. And so what's beautiful is there's so much power when you get multiple minds together and people are experts in different things and they're open and sharing. But I think sometimes we have to create the container for that honesty and that authenticity. And you might be able to do.

[D]

That best by taking those one to one people and then scooting them into that group setting. Because then you already know what their needs are and that you've addressed them.

[Diana Toronto]

Yeah, no, that makes total sense. And that's where my one to one clients have come from is through the VIP days. And so that, that absolutely makes sense. That's like the natural progression. But I can see, yeah, I can see how just like making a couple of small adjustments would be really helpful.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yeah. And I think too, even if you say like when you are booking those calls or those VIP days, like if you need to be moving while you're listening or if you need your camera off so that you focus, like letting people, if you want to lay on the floor and take this call, like it is welcome to you. I think a lot of times, like I'll take my calls on my treadmill because I actually have found that I can focus better when I'm walking because I can't do anything else. Right. I can't be distracted. And so like prefacing and setting that expectation of like, come as you are, we understand here this is a safe space. You don't have to sit at a desk with your feet on the floor for this call, like, we get it. I think that can be beautiful too.

[Diana Toronto]

You and I do have some perks or like ways that I prep for that because I am aware of people's needs. So the first way that people come in and find me is they take a, like a quiz that's all about how do you learn? And then that's applied to their VIP day. And so if they're more hands on, then we are doing those active things or if they're more visual then you know, I have slides up or a workbook up or you know, so there is like I am making those adjustments because that's what works for me, you know. But I do need, I think I do need to. Yeah, I think I need to make some adjustments on how the offer is presented or how it rolls out so that I can give a hundred percent to those clients. Because I really do enjoy teaching and it's really fun for me. I enjoy that a lot.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Have you ever done a value ladder for your business or do you know what a value ladder is?

[Diana Toronto]

It's like when you have lower ticket offers and then people can ascend the. To different higher offers. Yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yes. I honestly wonder if it would be interesting when you take an inventory of your offers if you could see almost a through line of like, okay, somebody that gets this free guide or this mini course would be a great fit then to potentially do a VIP day would be a great fit to go into one on one would be a great fit to go into the group coaching. But it would be interesting because it's like a funnel. Right. So it doesn't mean that every single person is going to ascend that way. But it also might help add clarity into the timing of what you would want to launch and when. If you could see more clearly, if somebody starts at point A, the next logical step would be point point B.

[D]

Point C, point D. It might just help you to kind of figure out what does that look like in terms of how you do those offers. And it might also help people kind of do a prerequisite of like, is this a good fit for me? Right where they are self identifying somebody.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Who would benefit from the specific offer. So that might just be an interesting exercise to do.

[Diana Toronto]

Okay, yeah, no, I can see that for sure.

[D]

I love that.

[Diana Toronto]

Okay. Do you have any other tips about that? About, you know, that letting go of, of some of my ideas? Any tips on just letting them go?

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yeah, I would say so. One thing that I've really been learning, and again this is just my personal experience is I recently was unpacking my fear of forgetting things. Like I don't know if you have this as well, but I do not trust my brain to remember things. It has been with me since I was a child. I had Test anxiety. I just was always afraid that I would forget important things. And so one thing that I think is really beautiful is when you have new ideas, sit down and write them down like pen to paper, and have a space where you save those ideas and you feel like they are stored and they are safe. And I think that so often we get really paralyzed when we're trying to remember all the things or, like, I don't want to forget this, or this feels important, important. And so when we take ideas that maybe we're not going to follow through on right now, we can just have them in a safe place that we can return to. And I found that one thing that has been so beneficial for me is having a pause period between the idea and the execution of the idea. Because I have always been someone who gets so frustrated that people can't move as fast as I can. Like, when I have an idea, I am going, like, I am going from zero to 90. I hope you're buckled up, because we are going. And I used to get really frustrated that people couldn't move at my speed. And when I started inviting in a pause period and making myself wait to really determine, is this the idea or was this an idea handed to me? Is this actually in alignment? What does the execution of this look like? What would this look like if it were easy? Then it kind of helps me, like, get back grounded, get back in my energy, really think of, like, okay, what is the priority right now? Like, am I about to drop a bomb on a peaceful area of my life just to have the excitement and the dopamine of the new idea? And so I've even invited it in. Like, if somebody, let's say Diana, you were like, hey, Jenna, I'm going to be in Duluth next week. Do you want to get coffee? I've invited the pause in even in invitations like that, because when I'm in your energy, I'm excited. Of course, yes, let's do it. And when I take a minute to pause, then I can ask myself, okay, I said, next week, I'm going to focus on being with my kids. If I say yes to this, it's pulling me out of that.

[D]

And so I just feel like having that moment of pause, whether it's a.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Few days, a few hours, a few.

[D]

Weeks, whatever that looks like, it really helps you get honest with what matters and what's worth pursuing. And I would argue that if something is not worth pursuing a month from now, it's not worth pursuing at all.

[Jenna Kutcher]

And so I think that pausing idea can really help.

[D]

And that's again, where some of the systems and structure that I put into.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Place have almost become like boundaries and.

[D]

Bumpers for me, because we're working a month in advance, so I can't just decide tomorrow I'm going to launch something new and do something we're already working ahead. So then it's like, okay, do you want to derail what you've already done.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Or do you want to stick to the plan and you can visit this later? And so I feel like too, some of that structure that I've added has kind of had me re evaluate what is worth pursuing and what is worth, like, moving fast towards.

[Diana Toronto]

Okay, I love that. That's a great idea because there are so many, like, how did you get, like a month ahead, though? Obviously you've had years to get a month ahead on your systems and your social media and all the things. So how do you, like, get there? Yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Okay, so it is crazy to me. So we have been months ahead for years. So this is like something that is doable no matter who you are in business. So here's where I want for you to think life and your business is actually more predictable than we think. Every month, if you get into a rhythm, you are going to know, hey, I committed to sending one email a week, so I need four emails for next month. I am committed to posting three times a week, so I need 12 posts for next month. I am committed to podcasting two times a week, so I need eight podcasts. And I have found that, like, my work is so much better when it comes from a place of rest and joy than a place of stress. Right. We all can feel the stress of certain people, like, just pushing things out. Like, I'm gonna get this out. And so I don't work in that way. I don't work well under. I mean, I. I can work really well under pressure, but I don't enjoy that work. And so when you start to anticipate and see that, like, wow, there is actually a rhythm to my business, it is so freeing. And it allows you to tap into one of the productivity hacks that works really well for people with adhd, which is batch working. Right. And I have really started to honor and accept batch working. I mean, years ago where I said, okay, let's. I now see, I'm going to publish one blog per week. I need four blogs. Okay, Let me sit down and just generate the ideas for those blogs. Okay. Then the next day, let me just outline the main thoughts for those blogs. Okay, then I'm going to sit down and actually write those.

[D]

And so when you start to identify the cycles in your business that come hell or high water, month after month are going to happen, it is so easy to work ahead. And I would again argue that doing so unlocks your creativity, your ability to pivot, because you're not creating on the fly. You are creating with something already there. Even for a launch that we're going into, I sat down and as painful as it was, I created all of my social posts in advance. But now that we're in the launch, I have the ability to pivot, to create something new. I'm not stressed out. I'm like freed up to like, see the big picture because I'm not in the minutia, because I cleared that off my plate before the big project happened. And so I would just say, like, it's probably easy for you to see different patterns and rhythms and cycles in your client's business, and maybe not so easy to see it in your own, but maybe you need an extra set of eyes or to just sit down and say, okay, what is the plan here? What is the rhythm? Because once you figure out and establish the rhythm of your business and how you're going to show up and serve, it's really easy to anticipate. When you can anticipate, you can plan, and when you plan, you can create. And so, like, we are always working months in advance and I think it gives me the ability to go to bed at the end of the night not feeling like I'm forgetting something, if that makes sense.

[Diana Toronto]

Yeah, because I feel that way all the time. And it's like the worst feeling.

[Jenna Kutcher]

It's the worst. And you're working so hard and you're like, what did I get done? Or like, I'm forgetting something. Like the feeling of forgetting something constantly is the worst feeling in the world. So I am trying to remove that feeling in every place in my life. And my business is the easiest place to remove that feeling.

[Diana Toronto]

I love it. I totally love it. Okay, so with all of that said today and what we've talked about, I see that you are very disciplined and committed and in your life, in your business. I love that you're always talking about your kids and how you prioritize your family. That's important to me too. I feel like I'm missing some of my kids grow up time because I'm spending so much time in my business and I want, you know, obviously I want to spend more time with my husband and my kids. So I guess what I'm asking is, like, how do you stay so committed and disciplined, especially with adhd? Like, how do you manage that? And I know this is just your perspective. Yeah, I'd love to hear that.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yeah. So if you feel like you're missing out on time, this is where I would challenge you to not create anything new for the next six months. And I feel like you can get so much work done in the time that you have for your business if you get excited about the marketing of the things you've already created. And I think that what is stealing your time and attention away is the newness and the excitingness of the new things. And you're missing the opportunity to maximize on what is already built, what is already amazing. And sometimes we need to just get back into those offers to remind yourselves how good they are. Because I think, think oftentimes we doubt, like, well, is this even good? Like, does anyone, Would anyone even benefit from it? Like, we kind of forget how much care went into the creation of the thing. And so maybe it's revisiting some of that past work and falling back in love with it that will help you kind of recenter and refocus. And I will say that I feel like I have the ultimate freedom because I am in the rinse and repeat of my business. It's not going to last forever. This is a time that is very intentional so that I can be hands on as a mom and be freed up. Just today, something happened at the school and school is canceled. And it's like, okay, I am busy for a couple hours, but then I am totally free to be with you. And so having that freedom and flexibility is what so many of us are after. And I would say that our desire to create chaos with the new offers is what pulls us from that the most. And so mine for gold in your own business. Challenge yourself to look at how can you get excited about the marketing, the improving the language, the sharing of the things you've already built and just start there. And I think that a lot of times we can get back excited and fall back in love with the things that we were once in love with when we are reminded how great they are and how they can actually make a difference. And so that would be my challenge for you. But I think your challenge is one that all of us face. I think it's something where we're building this business and these dreams for these kids, but we're also missing the kids in the motion of it all. And so I would just say You've already got gold in your business. Start digging for it inside of your business and then we can go from there, which is what I would recommend.

[Diana Toronto]

Okay. I love that. Thank you so much. This has been fantastic for me. I feel like you answered all of my questions. I feel like I have really clear direction on what I need to do. So thank you. This has been amazing for me. Thanks.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Thank you so much. Where can everybody find out more about you, connect with you? Check out your business book, a VIP day. Give us all the places that we can connect with you. Diana.

[Diana Toronto]

Fantastic. Thank you. So you can go to Diana toronto.com that's Toronto, just like Canada. And you can also find me on Instagram and Facebook as Diana Toronto.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Amazing. Thank you so much for being a part of our community. Thank you for showing up on this show and being vulnerable. And just thank you for sharing your heart and your gifts with the world. I know so many people benefit from the work you do. How many of us can relate to the challenges that Diana is facing? I feel like it is so crazy relatable to feel the way she does. And I'm so grateful for her bravery for showing up on this podcast and asking those big questions. I am 100% not an expert in all of this, but I have learned a lot along the way and doing these coaching episodes, it absolutely lights me up. So if you are not a part of our Gold Digger Podcast Insiders Facebook group, get in there. What are you waiting for? That is where we find our coaching students each and every single month. I love doing these episodes to meet you where you're at and to hopefully give clarity and knowledge to our community wherever they are on their journey. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you know someone who could benefit from this episode, please take a moment to share it with them. It means the world to us. And of course, until next time, gold diggers, keep on digging your biggest goals.

[Diana Toronto]

Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Goal Digger podcast. I hope today's episode filled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action, and realigned you with your true north in life and business. If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to gold diggerpodcast.com for today's show, notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more. And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show. We'll see you next time. Gold Diggers.