← The Goal Digger Podcast | Top Business and Marketing Podcast for Creatives, Entrepreneurs, and Women in Business
The Goal Digger Podcast | Top Business and Marketing Podcast for Creatives, Entrepreneurs, and Women in Business
869: Data Over Drama: How Female Leaders Can Scale with Strategy, Not Emotion
00:51:28
With Marina Middleton and Jenna Kutcher
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- [00:01]
Jenna Kutcher
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- [02:09]
Marina Middleton
Making it less about you is so important and again, the fastest way to just scale and also just like make progress in your life. And I love that you said perfection and progress earlier. It's like progress over perfection any day.
- [02:24]
Jenna Kutcher
I'm Jenna Kutcher, your host of the Gold Digger podcast. I escaped the corporate world at the age of 23 with nothing more than a $300 camera from Craigslist and a dream. Now I'm running a seven figure online business that feels even better than it looks. All from my house in small town Minnesota with my family here, we value time as our currency. We mix the woo and the work and we are in the pursuit of building businesses that give us the freedom to live lives that we love. I've always loved turning big goals into reality and I'm here to help you do the same. This isn't just a peek behind the curtain. Come along with me and my guests as we tear the whole curtain down. Every week we tackle practical no fluff marketing strategies and host honest discussions on what works and what doesn't. Join me and my expert guests for actionable insights to help you grow your dream business with confidence. Pull up a seat and get ready to be challenged, inspired and empowered. This is the Goal Digger podcast. You need to put yourself in the right rooms. You're going to hear us say this many times in today's episode because if you haven't attended an event that completely changed the trajectory of your life or your business, well, my guest today, Marina Middleton, is going to change your mind. In 2021, she walked into her first Create and Cultivate event as an attendee, looking to make connections and gain insights for her own business. Fast forward to today. She's the CEO and partner of the very brand that first inspired her. Creating cultiv 8 has been a part of my own journey too. I've had the honor of speaking at one of their events way back in 2019, and I've been a friend of the brand for a very long time. Seeing how they continue to evolve and impact women at every stage of their careers and lives has been absolutely incredible and I am so excited to have Marina on the show today. Marina is an absolute powerhouse when it comes to building communities, amplifying women's voices, and helping them break barriers in business. Before stepping into her leadership role at Create and Cultivate, she worked with Fortune 500 companies at Yahoo and Tumblr strategizing digital media campaigns. She has since coached and consulted hundreds of female founders, helping them grow their brands with confidence. In today's episode, Marina shares the defining moments that shaped her career. From navigating the corporate world to stepping into the CEO role of a major media and events brand, we're diving into how mentorship, networking and representation can accelerate career growth planning, plus the lessons she's learned balancing leadership and motherhood. If you've ever felt like an outsider in your industry or wondered how to cultivate the right connections to propel your career forward. This is the conversation for you. Marina Middleton. Welcome to the Gold Digger podcast. Marina. Stepping into a leadership role often comes with unexpected lessons. What's one insight or philosophy that has guided your approach as a CEO?
- [05:26]
Marina Middleton
I would say action really drives clarity. And to me, I think that is one of the scariest things as the CEO, I always constantly think, like, wow, I have so much to lose. Like, really, like thinking through every decision. And one of the biggest, you know, takeaways every day that I try to remind myself is like, action drives clarity. And like, the more that I'm stuck in this, like, indecisiveness is the more that I'm going to kill the momentum for the business. And so really my goal is like, a few things. One, take action and make sure that the team is so unbelievably clear on, like, what is our goal and what direction that we want to go to, like, what are our priorities and what are expectations. And I feel like if you can over communicate that with the team so they can also take action and not feel like they have to overthink every decision, you'll just grow so much faster.
- [06:17]
Jenna Kutcher
Yes. Oh, my gosh. I think that right there is gold because my listener, right now, you are listening and you're paralyzed. Right? How many times have we been paralyzed? Have we watched people have the idea or the thing and analysis paralysis due to perfection keeps them from making any progress? And I, I think what you said about momentum is so huge because momentum gives you the confidence of, like, you see yourself following through whether it was right or wrong, whether it was imperfect or not pretty. Like when you see yourself doing something and actually taking action. Oh my gosh. It like breeds confidence. And I think that's where the clarity comes from. I couldn't agree more. One thing I love about your story, I am obsessed, is that you took on the CEO role of create and cultivate after being a part of the community itself. So what has been the biggest mindset shift you had to make when stepping into this leadership position and give us kind of the backstage story of that?
- [07:16]
Marina Middleton
Yeah, so I have a corporate background, so I used to work at Yahoo, Yahoo News and Tumblr and did sales for a long time before that. And I remember when I went out on my own, I like googled this, like, women empowerment community or like business school. I was just trying to find, like, places and people to connect with as this new entrepreneur and create and cultivate came up. And I Remember like the COVID was happening and so I couldn't really like go to the event, so I joined their program, program online. And I was like, became uberly obsessed with Jacqueline. I was like, wow, this woman is unbelievable. Who's the original founder of Create and Cultivate? And I ended up going to my first one in New York in October of 2021. And I remember like these women would go. I like, I went to dry bar, got my hair done, I went by myself, I stood in line and I was scared. That's like truly, truly terrified. And I just remember like standing in line by myself, like not knowing anybody. I'm such an extroverted introvert. Like I, I hate networking and I'm terrified of meeting new people. Like it's. Which is so ironic in my role in the company that I operate. But I remember walking in and being like, wow, this is unbelievable. And so now fast forward three and a half, four years later, being the CEO and owning this company has been such a, like a whirlwind of a journey. Because I would say rather than like this mindset shift that I had, Jenna, it was more of like, how can I take that experience and implement it in the decisions that I make as the CEO? And so it was rather than like trying to shift out of the community attendee mindset and more into like, wait, wait, wait, I got to go back to that. Like when I, when I was in line, like, what did I hate and how can I do it better? When I was registering, what did I hate and what did I love? You know, and like really using that information for data. Like again we talked about earlier, like action and clarity. Like everything is data. And so for me I'm like, how. What is the white space as an attendee? And so I really, really thought through, like, how can we make our events better? How can we make more intimate events? How can we create content that's more like tangible and tactical? And like all of that I truly believe came from being an attendee of creating, cultivate.
- [09:31]
Jenna Kutcher
Okay, there are two things you just said there that I absolutely love. So one of my friends, Rory Baden, he always says you are most perfectly position to help the person you once were. And what better story of you being an attendee and then transitioning into CEO? Like you can still viscerally feel the feelings you felt as an attendee. Like you, you don't even have to think hard to go back to that. And I think that that is so beautiful. And honestly, I think for many entrepreneurs that is the truth. Like, the things you are creating and what you're putting out into the world is to help the younger version of you. The second thing that I want to dive a little bit deeper on, because I think you hit it in a really interesting way, was about data. And one thing I found is, and I am a woman, so I know this intimately, is that we can be so emotional about our businesses. And I think that a CEO mindset really requires you to look at everything not as a success or a failure, but as data and insights. And I feel like, and I could be reading this wrong, that you're wired like that. Do you agree? Because I felt like you can look at things from a critical perspective without being too emotional about it.
- [10:42]
Marina Middleton
Listen, I do it so much that it actually sometimes is a little too much.
- [10:47]
Jenna Kutcher
Like, I don't have any emotions. I don't feel anything.
- [10:50]
Marina Middleton
Like, my husband would be like, geez, why are you so cold about this? I was like, what do you mean? Like, it's just black and white. Even with my son, I, like, sit him down. And I'm very direct in certain ways. But, like, with my girlfriend, as they're going out on dates, I'm like, this is data. What do you love? What don't you love? Like, you know, but it is truly the only way that I'm equipped to make decisions, right? Like, I can't just, like, of course I make decisions sometimes through, like, my heart and my gut. Like, that is so important. And I would never even, like, be in positions to make decisions outside of that if it doesn't align with my mission. But, like, I need data to decide if something is going well or if it's not. And I think early on, I was just so terrified of failing. Like, so, so scared that it would cripple me from making decisions. It would cripple me from, like, taking leaps and going into rooms that I felt like I didn't belong in. And the second that I was like, oh, no, no, failure is actually, like, information. That's a good thing. There's no such thing as failure. It's just data. And if I can figure out, oh, okay, we launched this event, we didn't hit the numbers that we wanted to, or I launched this product, or I made this post, and it, like, didn't really land the way I expected it to. Taking a step back, taking your emotions out of it and being like, okay, cool, cool. Why? What time of the day? What was happening in the world? Who was I speaking to? How was I speaking to them? Like, making it less about you is so important. And again, the fastest way to just scale and also just like make progress in your life. And I love that you said perfection and progress earlier. It's like progress over perfection any day.
- [12:31]
Jenna Kutcher
This episode of the Gold Digger podcast is sponsored by Mercury, a business banking solution built for the way modern entrepreneurs actually work. Lately I've been exploring new tools to better support my business finances. And when I started asking around, my friend and fellow entrepreneur Hala immediately said, jenna, you've got to check out Mercury. She's been using it for her business and had glowing things to say. So of course I had to look into it. And honestly, I get the hype. With Mercury, you can track cash flow, send international payments, issue virtual cards, and even apply for capital all from one dashboard. Their credit cards come with a 1.5% cash back. And if you're working with international vendors, Mercury offers free domestic and international wires in US Dollars. So if you're in that same season of figuring out what's next for your business finances, Mercury just might be the partner you've been looking for. Mercury is a technology company, not a bank Check, show notes for details. Deposit $5,000 or spend $5,000 using your Mercury credit card within the first 90 days in order to earn $250 or do both for 500 in total rewards@mercury.com credit goal. That's mercury.com goal so the other day I went down this rabbit hole of finding really cute matching summer outfits for my girls. I had my cart full, my dog was asleep in my lap and of course I didn't have my wallet on me. And so I was just about to abandon it, telling myself I would circle back later. And then that purple Shop pay button popped up. One tap, it's done. It's kind of dangerous how easy it is, but it's also totally magical. Well, that little purple button, that's Shop Pay and it's powered by Shopify. It remembers your info so that checkout can be instant. And for business owners, Shopify makes it just as easy to run your store as it is to shop. One Shopify powers 10 of all E commerce in the US from brands like Gymshark and Mattel to businesses just getting started. It is everything you need to launch gorgeous templates built in tools for payments, inventory and marketing. It's all in one place. No code, no hassle. And that purple Shop pay button? Well, it's not just cute, it is why Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet. If you want to see Less carts being abandoned. It is time for you to head over to Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com gold digger go to shopify.com gold digger shopify.com gold digger Amen. I think this is so good. And I don't think we've talked about this enough because you and I, I feel, are very like kindred spirits in the sense of, like, I want to be emotional in certain areas and aspects of my life, but I also see the power in removing the emotional pole from things so that I can make decisions based on clarity. And so I wish that women talked about this more because a lot of times we say, you know, like, our business is our baby. And I agree with that in some ways. But then I'm like, no, no, no. Like, your business is also like information. And I. So I love that we're talking about this because there is so much power in our instincts, in our minds, in our guts, in the emotions. But a lot of times if people are paralyzed, I would say that they might be leaning too far into that side and missing the writing on the wall.
- [16:04]
Marina Middleton
100. And, you know, you talked a little bit about, like, I. And you, you said it like, my business is my baby. And that to me, I always stop people when you're talking like that of, like, whether it's a human baby, whether it's a fur baby, whether it's even like our partner. I remember one time Sebastian, who's my nine year old, like, he just, like, had this, like, weird tick. And I was like, oh, my God, he's having seizures. I was like, panic panicked, right? And I use this example because I, like, full blown, like, shut down. I was so terrified. I was like, oh, my God, we have to, like, I couldn't think strategically and, like, calmly and imagine you're treating your business like this, like human that you are so, you know, emotionally attached with. You can't think strategically. You also can't think clearly in the way to, like, lead other people. And so, yeah, that's a big no, no for me. You do not talk about your business as your baby or partner or anything.
- [16:56]
Jenna Kutcher
Yes, I agree. I think that it just allows you to have that separateness. And I think too, in the era that Jacqueline and I came up in, it was like, you know, you are your brand and your business, and all of these things are so intersected that there's no separation. And maybe it's my personal journey, but I also just have a hunch that a Lot of people that are in the earlier stages of starting their businesses or becoming entrepreneurs desire that separation. Like personally for me in my life right now, I want to know where the business and the brand ends and where the human begins. And I don't think I was always that way, but I think that it's a healthier approach to business and I also think it allows you to have the boundaries required to have the freedom that you likely desire in becoming an entrepreneur in the first place.
- [17:46]
Marina Middleton
Absolutely.
- [17:47]
Jenna Kutcher
Oh my gosh. Okay, so I want to know because one thing that I love about create and cultivate and you specifically is just this mission to kind of reach women at all different career stages, right from aspiring founders to C suite executives. And so what are we're kind of talking on it of some of the predictions and trends that we're seeing. But what are some key trends that you are seeing in what women need and want right now in order to advance either in their careers or in entrepreneurship?
- [18:16]
Marina Middleton
Yeah. So I would say three things that really stood out to me is one, access over inspiration. So when we were thinking back about like what's new content that we want to create for, you know, create and cultivate and sometimes people think create and cultivate is like oh women. We are like empowering women. And like woo. It's like yeah, yeah, we do that plus give really tangible information and insights and access. So really helping women with just the motivation to keep going and having a safe space 100% it. But like okay, access to mentorship, access to tangible tools and career opportunities. Access to funding. Right. Only 2% of VC funding go to women. Even less for women of color. And so like giving women access is truly the most important thing. Access to information over just inspiration. And you'll see this very, very, very clearly when you start really looking for it is like the type of information that is positioned for men versus the type of, of information that is positioned for women is night and day. It's like, I'm sorry, what? Why are we talking like this? Like I need the same actually information as they're getting. So I would say access to information is going to be really important. But yeah, access and like tools versus just fluffy inspiration, that's one of the biggest things you'll see really shifting. The second thing is in a trend that I'm so behind is diversifying their revenue streams. So many people are wanting to do more than just that one thing. Right. Whether they're in corporate and want to side hustle, whether they, you know, have a business and want to like, launch another one by diversifying their revenue stream is going to be a big one. And then, which I'm very excited about also. The rise of micro communities is everything now. One of our products for cultivate is the festival. It's a massive, massive event, right? And so we bring all of our smaller micro communities that we've built throughout the year together at this, like, massive experience. But that massive experience and that, like, mass content from a media perspective wouldn't thrive if we didn't dive into the micro communities and have these intimate dinners, intimate, you know, retreats and masterminds. And so really making sure that you're nurturing your community at a micro level, not just trying to, like, speak to the masses is going to be so important. And that's definitely a trend you'll see more often than not right now.
- [20:36]
Jenna Kutcher
I love all three of these and I especially love the last one about micro communities. I feel that even in my life right now, just as a mom in a small town, like, I feel like the way that we will change the world is through, you know, five women gathering. Like, I just, I am set on it. I believe it, I feel like I can see it. And I feel like this world that we're in is just really forcing this, like, connection in isolation. And so I feel like the way that we heal it all, like, whether it's our families, whether it's our ancestral lines, whether it's our students or our followers or our friends, it's like women gathering is something that historically has shown changes the world. And so I love that focus of, like, it can be really small and intimate and it can also be scaled. And I am excited about both of those because I couldn't agree more. I just feel like when women get together and share our experiences and share what's working and share what's not working, it's like we all benefit. And I think a lot of the systems have been put in place to keep us separate and to keep us small. And so I love that that is one of the ways that you guys are kind of changing the world. And, you know, it's crazy because I had to, like, dive really deep, but I did a great cultivate event back in 2019. And so I have, like, been a part of this magic for a very long time and gotten to witness just the authenticity and the honesty that shows up in those rooms and the deep desire of, like, skip the pluck. Let deep, let's make it real. Like, let's be honest. And I have experienced that firsthand and I think that there is something really special about allowing people to show up not as like their best, most, you know, primed self, but the self that's like, I need help, Like, I don't get this, or like, what does this even mean? And I think creating a safe space that you guys do is like, really incredible.
- [22:33]
Marina Middleton
Thank you. Yeah, I think one of the biggest things too is like, you need different communities for different things. Right? Like, I'm a mom. Like, I want my mom community, I'm a CEO, I want my CEO in business communities. And like, those two communities can coexist, but they might not be able to serve you the way that you need to in different seasons of your life. And so having these micro communities are so important. And yeah, I love, like the vulnerability around the community of create and cultivate is like, unlike anything I've ever seen before. Truly.
- [23:01]
Jenna Kutcher
Yes. So as you stepped into a CEO, I mean, it's funny because, like, I'm a CEO of my own company. It's a little different. What is like one piece of advice you wish someone had given you as you stepped into this role?
- [23:16]
Marina Middleton
Yeah. People always said like, my time is the most valuable thing. And I actually argue and I wish people said that, like, my energy actually is the most valuable thing. And I know those two can kind of go hand in hand, but like, no, no, my energy is truly the biggest asset. And I wish that that was advice that I had given before because like, when you are thinking about being a CEO and showing up for your team and managing all of the time that you have, like the energy that you put into those things really determine the outcome of those things. And so how I show up in a meeting is going to be whether I, you know, work 12 hour days or five hour days. Like, the energy is really going to determine the outcome of what I do. And so I wish that someone like really sat me down and was like, actually, Marina, it's not just the time that's really valuable, it's your energy. So like, what is draining you, what is giving you more energy, what is exciting you, what is not? And kind of like adjust accordingly based off of that.
- [24:15]
Jenna Kutcher
Oh, that is gold. Because also you could spend the same amount of time on one project and if you have like negative low energy versus, like excited energy, it shifts the entire outcome. So I couldn't agree more on that. And I think too women are starting to look at our resources a little bit differently. You know, a lot of times we look at like time and money, but like now I'M like, how is my nervous system doing? Like, am I stressed? Am I sleeping well? Like, what do all of those things do? Because you see the direct impact not just in our work, but in our lives and as mental mothers and things like that. And so I love that. What have you noticed in terms of being, like, stepping into a CEO position? Have you hit any big, like, mindset blocks for yourself or did you have imposter syndrome when kind of getting that title?
- [25:08]
Marina Middleton
Yeah, so I don't know if imposter syndrome is a thing that I, like, try to lean into. I just, like, I just pretend it doesn't exist. Although, again, I use the word like, scared all the time. I'm always scared. Right? Like, buying a company was first time I've ever done that, being a CEO, first time I've ever done that. And again, I've been a CEO in my own company. But it was very different than what I am doing now. And so I think, you know, it was less of, like, mindset. It was more of. I don't. I think I was, like, shocked at a lot of the things that I was doing for the first time. I think, like, leading a team is much harder than I had ever anticipated. And I wish more people talked about it. It was like, oh, this is even. We just talked about energy. It's not even just my energy. It's like, as a boss, as a. Like, as someone's manager or someone that is like, you know, leading a team, protecting their energy is really important and understanding their personalities and how they consume. And I'm like, oh, as someone that tries not to be emotional, I'm like, this is a lot that I'm consuming. So I just. I just, like, wish more people talked about that. It was less. It just shocked me. Like, leadership was much harder than I anticipated. Time management, energy management, financial, like, planning, all of the things that is common sense for a CEO just took me by surprise. And I was just doing it. Like, I'm like, I'm just figuring it out along the way. And I. I think it's more of, like, my mindset of just, like, how I grew up of, like, you just figure it out.
- [26:36]
Jenna Kutcher
Um, but yeah, let's talk about the team piece, because I agree. And it's interesting, too, because as people's businesses grow, a lot of times their team grows. Right? Like, I never went into photography being like, I am going to lead a team of 12 someday. I'm going to be responsible for their livelihoods and their family's livelihoods, all of it. Is going to be on my shoulders and at the end of the day, I need to go to bed and sleep. Well, you know, it's interesting because a lot of times when we get ourselves into these positions, our day to day doesn't look how we necessarily imagined it would look, or maybe the stories we were told of how it would look. But I agree. I think managing a team and different personalities, different working styles and trying to be conscious and aware is really exhausting. And it's funny because I can literally not leave my house for an entire week and not even realize it and not feel lonely because I feel like I have been sending energy through the ether back and forth and in communication with people all week long. What have you experienced with that?
- [27:45]
Marina Middleton
Yeah, so we, you know, acquired the company with zero people. It was just Jacqueline and I and I had to build the team from scratch.
- [27:53]
Jenna Kutcher
Right?
- [27:53]
Marina Middleton
So hiring a sales team, marketing team, operations team, finance team, like every team you could possibly think of. And it has been such a humbling experience, to say the least. I think a lot of people like, like we had just talked about is like, they don't realize how much of like an energy exchange it is. And same like, I'll be in my office all day, all day, not leave, but feel like I have been just in like large groups of people all the time. I would say things that I've kind of like learned and experiences like one or realized one. Like, nobody gives you grace. Like, nobody's ever asking, like, marina, how are you doing? Like, outside of my husband, right. And like, that's not really their job. Like, they don't really. They want to do their job. Right. And so I think, like, that's one thing that I'm like, as long as I'm taking care of myself, I can continue showing up right. For everybody in my life. The second thing is I. I sometimes realize that again, talking about energy, like, maybe sending a 6am Slack or an email at certain times might not be a good idea, even though I want to just get it done. And so it's little tweaks that I've. I've been trying to do. Whether it's like scheduling the message to go out at a specific time so it does not spike their nervous system. And you know, and then also on the flip side is like really, really focusing on how do I show up when maybe something did not go right and I have to have a hard conversation. Right. Those are, I think those are like the learning experiences that I'm like, like firing someone for the first Time. I never had to do that before. And like, I hated it. I hated it. I cried so much the night before, I cried right after. And I was like, this is terrible and I'm probably going to have to eventually, eventually do it again. It's just inevitable. And it's like, those things suck, but they're just like, part of business, you know, And. But yeah, I ended up, like, equipping myself with like, I have a therapist, I have a leadership coach. I'm like, trying to just make sure that I'm being fueled and like, I just have a village of support so I can continue supporting my team.
- [29:53]
Jenna Kutcher
I think that's so huge. And, you know, I agree. I think sometimes I was recently talking about this, but my husband and I, we have operated for many, many years where he's on a need to know basis with my business. Like, my business is such a small part of my life that, like, when I close the laptop at the end of the day, like, we personally don't talk about business. And I was like, now I'm at a stage where I'm like, I need you to know what I'm doing. Because you might walk by and I'm on the couch on my computer, and it might just look like, you know, I'm sitting there AOL instant messaging. But I'm reviewing contracts, I'm talking to lawyers, I'm making big decisions, I'm trying new things, I'm doing research, like, where I'm like, everything is moving so fast these days that to, like, stay on top and just stay in a leadership position, it requires a different level of mental stamina and emotional intelligence. I think both of those two things are so huge for leaders these days. Is like, we're supposed to be creative and intuitive and in touch with what's going on and at the same time be able to lead through these brand new things in a way that, you know, gets your team on board. And so it's. It's a really interesting and delicate dance. And I love that you talked about getting kind of your supports team, because I also think that's so huge, whether it's peers, you know, in your industry that you can talk to and work through things with, or therapists. I saw something once where it was like, if you want to learn where you need healing, like, become an entrepreneur. Because entrepreneurship reveals all the areas of your life that you need healing or that you feel exposed or that your ego needs work. And so, you know, I think we all kind of experience that. But a lot of times that's the work that happens behind closed doors that doesn't get brought to light very often.
- [31:41]
Marina Middleton
Yeah, absolutely. I definitely think an ego is a big one. Like, ego is so, so big. And I, like, I think about that all the time. On the flip side, my husband and I, all we do is talk about work that sometimes I'm like, hey, we gotta talk about something else. And then it just goes silent because it's like, what else are we gonna talk about?
- [31:58]
Jenna Kutcher
Isn't that funny? I think it's like, one camp or the other, right? It's not hilarious.
- [32:05]
Marina Middleton
No, I love it.
- [32:06]
Jenna Kutcher
It's like when you go on dates and then you look at photos of your kid the whole time, and you were, like, begging to get time away, and then you're like, look at how cute they are. Oh, my gosh. They did this thing the other day. It's like, wait a minute, wait a minute.
- [32:18]
Marina Middleton
Step out about 100%. But, yeah, no, those micro communities that we were talking about earlier is definitely one of the things that I would say tap into when you're looking to build a team. I do want to say that, like. Like, if you are in the early stages of your business, I think one advice that I wish people gave me that I got the opposite of is like, everybody was like, you need a massive team. You need a massive team. And, like, you actually don't. You don't need a bunch of people. Like, and I think a lot of the times we think these large companies have teams of 20, 30, 40, 50, and, like, they don't. And they can thrive as long as you have your systems and operations, like, in check. And that's a big thing for me. You're good. Like, don't rush to. To hire a bunch of people. Like, you just don't need it.
- [32:57]
Jenna Kutcher
Oh, my gosh. I couldn't agree more. We have between 10 and 12 people total, and that's between contractors and salaried. And I am of the vein of, like, we are small and nimble, and we can move a lot faster than if we have all of these layers of people that we need to go through. And so I've actually had a lot of friends that have the big teams that they're like, I miss those days where, like, we could move quickly, we could execute well. You know, there wasn't all of these channels to go through, so I couldn't agree more. I agree. So I want to know, obviously, you're a mom and, you know, balancing motherhood, running a company. We all know it is not easy what have been some of your biggest lessons in navigating your career and motherhood successfully?
- [33:42]
Marina Middleton
Yeah. So I brought up my husband earlier. We're both entrepreneurs and I think that there's definitely pros and cons of marrying another entrepreneur and pros and cons of being with someone that is maybe in corporate or has more that stability. And I, I think that for us, I always look at it as like such a blessing. And how cool is it that, you know, our son can see this as the norm, right? Like being this entrepreneur, being a CEO, running this business for my business, it's like it is a business focused conferences that we do in events and it's like all empowering women and all giving access and advancing women. And so the fact that he can see that is really cool. I don't believe in balance. Like, it just doesn't exist. And I. That's something I learned pretty quickly even when I was working in corporate. I started as a single mom when I had my son and so it was really hard to find that balance. And I feel like I was very hard on myself because I wasn't finding it. And I was like, oh, wait, it doesn't exist. Like, why am I trying to search for this balance? And so I think it's more of this harmony. I integrate Sebastian in a lot of the things that I do. He comes to events when he can. He's, you know, I'm on a zoom call and he's in the background. Like, I don't apologize for that. So it's very integrated into the work that I do and kind of the culture that I've created in work and outside of work. I think that that's also very important for mothers that are listening. Whether you have your own company or not, being able to like, set those boundaries are going to be really important. One thing that I would say, like I'm working harder on now is like when I do turn off my computer, I also turn off my phone and I'm just like, I try to be present versus trying, like, because the work never ends, you know, And I think that if I can just like refill my cup with allocating time with him and my family, I think that to me is where the harmony comes in. Because there's other times that like, for example, tomorrow I'm, you know, flying out for a few days for an event. It's like, I don't want to feel guilty for doing that, you know, but I also want to be present while I'm home. And so it's really finding those, like, boundaries and actually implementing them is, is the biggest thing that I've kind of found that has been really helpful.
- [35:47]
Jenna Kutcher
Yeah, I love that. And I mean, let's be honest, there are very few real emergencies in the work that we do. And so I think oftentimes, like, we get tethered to this idea of like jesting what if, what if? And it's like in over a decade, I don't think there's been like a single real emergency happening here. Right. Like, we're all going to be okay if we catch it a few hours later. I love that and I agree. It was so funny. We just got baby chicks. We're going to have chickens. And this morning my 6 year old was dreaming up her egg endeavor where she's going to sell eggs at the end of our driveway. And I texted my husband and I was like, she realizes we have four chicks. Chicks and we eat a lot of eggs, right? And he's like, well, looks like we're not going to be eating the eggs after all. She has a business. Don't crush her dreams. And I'm like, maybe we should have got more chickens then. So we were laughing so hard because they were naming their business and I was like, so what? She's gonna stand at the end of the driveway with one carton of eggs? Like, explain this to me. I said, maybe we'll go with a lemonade stand.
- [36:47]
Marina Middleton
I love it. It's hilarious.
- [36:49]
Jenna Kutcher
I love it. And I think that, you know, it's interesting too, as our kids age, because you said your son's nine, you know, they start to pay attention a lot more and start to understand it. And so it can be so hard when you have such young kids and they like have no idea what you do or why you do it or what work is. Like my daughters, every time I'm like, I gotta get worked. And they're like, oh man. I'm like, you realize all of this exists because of the work I do. And so it's awesome to kind of take them on the ride. And I feel like they do see possibility and see, you know, the different opportunities in a beautiful way. I think it's a really cool thing. Okay, Real talk, you know, when you get served an ad that makes zero sense for you. Like for weeks I kept getting ads for these high tech gaming chairs. Hi. I don't even game. I'm a mom. I'm not a twitch streamer. That's what makes LinkedIn ads stand out. They actually get your message to the Right people? That's why I love what they can do for business owners. LinkedIn ads gives you access to over 1 billion professionals. That's billion with a B. And you can target your ideal buyer by title, industry skills, and even revenue. It takes the guesswork out of who's seeing this and helps you get in front of decision makers who actually are ready to take action. So instead of casting a super wide net, you can be laser focused and let your budget work smarter. LinkedIn will give you $100 credit on your next campaign just so you can try it for yourself. Go to LinkedIn.com goal that's LinkedIn.com G O A L Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. I will never forget one of the first big girl moments I had in business. It was when I finally released the white knuckle grip I had on my business and I finally decided to hire help. I was so excited to get help, but I quickly became so, so overwhelmed because I didn't know the first thing about payroll or how to stay on top of taxes as a business owner. And trust me, I just wanted to do it right without spending hours buried in paperwork. Now if only I had had Gusto back then. Gusto is the all in one platform that makes payroll, benefits and HR feel doable even if you're not a numbers person. Whether you're paying W2s, 1099s or offering health insurance and 401ks, Gusto's got your back. You can run payroll in just a few clicks and Gusto will automatically file and pay your taxes at the federal, state and the local level. With no spreadsheets and no guesswork. Over 400,000 small businesses across the country, including mine, trust Gusto because it is so simple and so intuitive. If payroll's been sitting on your I'll figure it out later list, this is your sign. Right now, Gusto is offering three months for free. When you run your first payroll, head to gusto.comgold digger to get started. That's gusto.comgolddigger. you know those seasons of life where everything feels like it's moving a mile a minute? Yeah, I've been living in those. There was this one week where we woke up in snowy Minnesota, and by nightfall, our girls were running barefoot playing dress up in a beachside Airbnb in Florida. We went from parkas to palm trees in under 12 hours, and let me tell you, it was a whirlwind. But what made it feel like home wasn't just the sunshine. It Was the thoughtful touches waiting for us. A cozy space to land toys for the kids, beach gear ready to go. It felt like someone had prepared it just for us. Whether you're traveling for work, chasing down a big dream, or just carving out time to rest, life pulls us away from home sometimes. And if you've got a little extra space or a second property, maybe you've wondered, could we share this with someone else? But let's be real. Hosting can feel like a lot. That's where Airbnb's co host network changes everything. You can connect with a local co host who helps manage it all, from setting up your listing to messaging guests to handling the on the ground details. They can even help with design and styling. It's basically like having a partner who knows what they're doing so you don't have to do it all yourself. With a co host, you can open your door to guests without overextending yourself. It's hosting made simple and thoughtful. Explore what's possible and find your co host today@airbnb.com host. Did you have any examples of entrepreneurship in your life before you became one?
- [41:06]
Marina Middleton
Yes. So I. So I was born in Egypt. When I came here, my dad was an engineer. My mom was a science professor. And so when we came to the States, they kind of had to start all over again. And so everybody in my family were either like doctors or lawyers or whatever in. In corporate. So they, and my aunts and uncles, like, would open pizzerias and they would build them and then flip them. And it's funny, they never identified as entrepreneurs. And as I got older, I was like, you guys knew your entrepreneurs and small business owners. Like, this is crazy. And for the longest time, I also didn't associate them as entrepreneurs. And so I really saw that growing up, like, they, you know, when their business wasn't working, like, like literally going out and handing menus and, like, figuring out how to, like, market. They had no idea. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, I definitely grew up seeing that. But I will tell you, they were not thrilled when I decided to go out on my own. And they were like, they. I think now they kind of get like, I'm doing well for myself. But in the beginning, they were just like, you're unemployed. Like, you're unemployed, and what is this.
- [42:13]
Jenna Kutcher
Imaginary thing you're doing here?
- [42:15]
Marina Middleton
Yeah, and comparing it, you know, for people that, you know, my cousins that are doctors and surgeons and, you know, VPs of different companies, and they're like, oh, my daughter does These, like, events for girls and women, like, oh, God, it sounds so sad in comparison. But now they get it. They've seen, you know, the scale of the event. But yeah, that was my example growing up.
- [42:37]
Jenna Kutcher
That's so sweet. And I feel like that is common for people stepping into entrepreneurship. Like, I remember when I was in corporate and told my parents, like, hey, I think I'm going to quit. And just like, I got this camera on Craigslist, I'll figure it out. They were like, you have benefits, you have a 401k, you have security, and what are you doing? This is crazy. And I am grateful for the questions they asked because it really did make sure, like I knew what I was going into. But it is interesting as well. And we talked about the word ego before because it can feel really hard. I know. For me it felt like an identity crisis to go from like this long, fancy title to try to describe the vision or how important it was or how good I was at things. And it's like, it's not up to anyone else to understand it, you know, as long as understand it yourself. And I think a lot of times when we're starting our, quote, little businesses, it can be really pushing up against a lot of the societal norms that we've been taught or a lot of the ways that we perceive value and importance. Did that happen for you at all or were you just kind of like, let them think what they want to think. I know what I'm doing.
- [43:49]
Marina Middleton
Listen. So I, so I went out on my own because I got laid off. So Yahoo News, like, lost funding and I got laid off. And I remember, like, again, I'm a very, like, I lead with emotion sometimes, but I'm very like, go, go, go, go. Like, I gotta figure this out. I got laid off on a Tuesday. By Wednesday, I was like, this is what I'm doing kind of thing. And this was five years ago. And I remember my cousin reached out to me who works at Amazon and was like, hey, like, totally support you, but like, can you just send me your resume? I'm gonna just throw it around and see if you could get a job in the meantime. And I was like, no. Like, no, I can do this. And I actually set a goal for myself early on as entrepreneur. I was like, I'm going to give myself three months. And I realized the second that I removed that three month goal and I was like, no, I'm going to do this. I'm going to figure it out. And no matter how long it takes, that's really where things kind of like flourished for me because I was like, this is my only option, 100%. Everybody was like, what are you doing? Don't do it. And I just really have to remind myself that does come up, at least for me. It did come from a place of caring and like, nurturing. And they just wanted me to be good, especially because I had this child and you know, and. But I had the support of my husband and he's like, go do it. Like, this is what you've wanted to always do. And I will tell you what I started five years ago versus what I am doing now. It's aligned on the same mission, but it is drastically different. And so I really challenge someone if, like, if you're doing something, allow the evolution to happen. Like, don't be so strict on like, well, this is how I wanted to do it. And this is, you know, what I was going to do. Like, maybe redefine what success looks like for you as you're growing and allow yourself to, like, outgrow rooms. Allow yourself to, like, be really uncomfortable. Because I think that's where the growth is. And that's kind of what eventually got my family and friends and stuff like that to be like, oh, I feel like she kind of knows what she's doing. We truly trust her and like, we kind of let her do that.
- [45:47]
Jenna Kutcher
Yeah, that is such good advice. Because I think too, if we start going out into the world and sharing this vision, it is harder to allow the vision to evolve because a lot of times we almost hold ourselves. It's like sunk cost fallacy. Right. Of like, well, I've already put in this much or I announced to the world that I'm doing it this way, so I have to follow through now. And entrepreneurship is just one big evolution. Like, I don't know any successful entrepreneurs that haven't had multiple iterations or multiple identities. And you talked about at the very beginning of the show of just like the multi passionate woman. And I think every human is multi passionate. We've just gotten too comfortable at putting people into boxes. And so I love that advice of like, let it evolve, hold it loosely. I feel like I've learned to like, hold visions and goals loosely, to allow the fluidity of it all in life to just transform it. And I think oftentimes the end result is better than what you had envisioned in the first place.
- [46:51]
Marina Middleton
A hundred percent. Yeah. No, that's the best advice.
- [46:54]
Jenna Kutcher
Yeah. So I want to know one thing that you've talked about is mentorship and One huge facet of create and cultivate is representation. And I think that both of those things together are absolutely crucial for women to have real career growth. And so how have these two things, mentorship and representation, shaped your own journey? Like, what advice do you have for women that are trying to kind of see themselves in the world or to seek out the right sort of mentorship on their journey?
- [47:24]
Marina Middleton
Yeah, so I invested in a lot of different programs early on, and that was a big. A really new thing for me. Like, I remember telling my husband, like, hey, I'm going to, you know, hire this coach or join this mastermind for $5,000. And he was like, $5,000? Like, what are they going to do? And it really changed my life. Like, just being in the right rooms of people that are in the same stage as I am was very, very, very, very pivotal for my career. I would then take that a step further and say being in the rooms with the people that are 10 steps ahead of me was even more valuable. And that's really, like, the thought process around creating the blueprint mastermind or, like, the masterminds that we have. I felt like it was so important to learn alongside women and people that are going through it, but it was so unbelievably important to learn from people and entrepreneurs that are 10,000 steps ahead of me, and not in a way that I would compare myself to them, but, like, to kind of, like, borrow beliefs that they've had, avoid some of the mistakes that they've done, and like that. To me, I still have mentors. I still go to my own retreats and masterminds and really, like, connect with women that are either on the same level as me or have done different things and larger things than I have. Whether that's exited their business or whatever it is, it's so important just to know, one, that you're not alone, two, that you can figure it out through other things. And three, like, maybe other people have actually gone through it too and have a faster way of overcoming it. And so that's where, like, mentorship is so important. And I do think, obviously, I know you believe in this so much, but, like, I do think that the more that you invest in yourself, the more invested you are. Right. And so really, like, invest in yourself. Invest in getting in these rooms. That's really important. The only other thing I would say about this note is, like, kind of audit the rooms that you're in and see if you've outgrown any of them and, like, get the hell out of there if you have and try to get into a different room because that's like, that's where the gold is is like if you can keep growing and keep going into these bigger rooms that you necessarily might not feel like you belong in.
- [49:35]
Jenna Kutcher
Yeah, I love that. I agree too. Like when you put skin in the game, it's like those who pay pay attention type vibes. Yep. And I also like for being where I live, I remember the first Mastermind I joined. Like people were so bold and being like, I want to make a million dollars or I want to, you know, donate X amount of money or I want to, you know, like, I want to impact millions of people. And like I was like, I have never heard anyone say these words with their own breath. Like it was, it was just eye opening of like possibility. And I think oftentimes we don't see the lack in our own circles or in our own areas or we don't have access to people that are on similar paths. And so I couldn't agree more. I feel like those are huge catalysts and I don't know about you, Marina, but like I still talk to people that I met in Masterminds years and years and years ago. Like they're still dear friends, they are still people that I partner with, that I cheer on, they cheer on here on. We ask questions to each other. So like it is worth its weight in gold to create those kind of relationships.
- [50:42]
Marina Middleton
100 and even like for. Yeah, for me, some of the mentors that I had are now like, you know, speakers at Creating Cultivate and I'm able to connect with them on such a different level and it's been so, just so amazing to have that network and continue to grow it. So yeah, I love it.
- [50:58]
Jenna Kutcher
Where can everybody find out more about you? Find out about creating content, cultivate events, give us all the places.
- [51:05]
Marina Middleton
Yeah. So I am live and breathe on my Instagram. So slide into my dms. It's Marina A. Middleton. I try to share everything possible in there as I'm a bit unfiltered on. On social and then create cultivate.com that's really where you can see all of our events. And signing up to our newsletter and kind of staying up to date with our community is really where you can.
- [51:26]
Jenna Kutcher
Find all things amazing. Thank you so much. Congrats on your CEO position. I've loved watching the company just flourish under your leadership and thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I absolutely love watching women step into their power and watching Marina take over as CEO of a brand that I have known and loved for over a decade leaves me over here clapping my hands and cheering her on. There is just nothing more beautiful than watching women champion and usher other women into positions of power. And I don't know of a better brand than create and cultivate that does just that. If you are someone who is seeking to find a community, either micro or macro, I would absolutely recommend checking out their events. Maybe one of these. These days I will speak at them again when you can actually get me to leave Minnesota. They're working on me right now and I'm so close to saying yes because I know firsthand the rooms and the spaces that they curate are absolutely exceptional and just filled with incredible human beings. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the podcast. As always, if you know of anyone who would benefit from this show, just click the share button and send them a link to tune in. This is a great episode to discuss with other people as you build your own community. And of course, until next time, Gold Diggers, keep on digging your biggest goals. Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger Podcast. I hope today's episode fueled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action, and realigned you with your true north in life and business feel. If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to gold diggerpodcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more. And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show. We'll see you next time. Gold Diggers.