Episode 897: Hustle Culture Lied to You. What High Achievers Are Afraid to Admit
Host: Jenna Kutcher
Guest: Dr. Judith Joseph, Columbia-trained Psychiatrist, NYU Professor, Author of "High Functioning: Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy"
Release Date: July 21, 2025
Introduction
In Episode 897 of The Goal Digger Podcast, Jenna Kutcher engages in a profound conversation with Dr. Judith Joseph, a renowned psychiatrist and mental health advocate. The episode delves into the hidden struggles of high achievers, particularly women, who outwardly appear successful but inwardly grapple with emotional exhaustion and hidden depression. Together, they unpack the detrimental effects of hustle culture and introduce actionable strategies to reclaim joy and mental well-being.
The Illusion of Success and Hidden Depression
Dr. Judith Joseph opens the discussion by addressing the relentless pursuit of external markers of success—price tags, appearances, and constant busyness—that fail to deliver genuine happiness. At [00:02], she states:
"We're chasing the idea of happiness because it looks good on the outside, but we're missing out on the experience of joy."
Jenna echoes this sentiment, highlighting her personal journey from the corporate world to running a successful online business that prioritizes time and joy. She emphasizes the prevalence of questions among entrepreneurs about transitioning careers, marketing, financial management, and ultimately, whether they can turn their dreams into reality.
Hustle Culture as a Silent Epidemic
At [03:03], Dr. Joseph critiques the societal expectations placed on women to be leaders and perpetually happy, which often leads to shame and mental health issues:
"Women are twice as likely to be depressed and anxious compared to men. The numbers don't lie."
She explains that unlike burnout, which is typically tied to external factors and alleviates when leaving the stressful environment, high-functioning depression is internal. Individuals with high-functioning depression remain busy and restless even outside of work, masking their emotional struggles.
Distinguishing Burnout from High-Functioning Depression
Dr. Joseph clarifies the critical differences between burnout and high-functioning depression at [04:59]:
"Burnout is external, tied to your environment, and you feel relief when you leave work. High-functioning depression persists because it's rooted internally."
She underscores the necessity of accurately identifying these conditions to seek appropriate support and intervention, highlighting that unresolved internal issues continue to undermine well-being despite external success.
Introducing the 5 V's Method
To help individuals reconnect with joy, Dr. Joseph introduces her 5 V's framework, a scientifically grounded method designed to address and heal the underlying issues of high achievers.
1. Validation ([06:56])
Validation involves accurately identifying and naming emotions, which can significantly reduce anxiety. Dr. Joseph explains:
"If you can name how you feel and name the emotion appropriately, your anxiety goes down automatically."
This process, known as affect labeling in psychology, helps individuals move from a state of uncertainty and fear to one of understanding and calm.
2. Venting ([10:29])
Venting is about expressing emotions in healthy and intentional ways to prevent emotional buildup. Dr. Joseph advises:
"Be intentional about who you're venting to and why you're venting. Are you seeking a resolution, or just someone on your side?"
She emphasizes the importance of reciprocal relationships and emotional consent to ensure that venting is constructive rather than harmful.
3. Values ([13:41])
Values pertain to identifying what truly brings meaning and purpose to one's life, beyond material success. Dr. Joseph differentiates between happiness and joy, noting that:
"When you think of values, these are the things that allow you to experience joy every day."
By reconnecting with personal values, individuals can prioritize activities and relationships that foster genuine joy.
4. Vitals ([18:20])
Vitals extend beyond traditional health markers to include:
- Relationship with Technology: Excessive screen time can lead to self-judgment and stress.
- Relationships with Others: Healthy connections are crucial for emotional well-being.
- Work-Life Balance: Learning to disconnect from work is essential for enjoying personal life.
Dr. Joseph highlights how modern technology and constant connectivity contribute to anxiety and a lack of joy:
"We're looking at ourselves too much, causing unnecessary stress."
5. Vision ([23:34])
Vision involves celebrating wins and planning for future joy without getting stuck in past achievements. It encourages small, daily acknowledgments to maintain momentum and happiness:
"How do you celebrate your wins? Let me just take a break and enjoy my coffee."
Resilience vs. Survival Mode
The conversation shifts to the concept of resilience, distinguishing it from merely surviving through constant busyness. Dr. Joseph asserts at [25:21]:
"The people I admire the most are the ones who are able to tap into joy and be calm."
True resilience, she explains, is characterized by inner peace and the ability to remain joyful even in crises, contrasting with those who are perpetually restless and stressed.
Numbing and Achievement as Coping Mechanisms
Dr. Joseph discusses how high achievers often use constant busyness as a way to numbing emotional pain or unresolved trauma. At [39:45], she notes:
"Numbing and achievement are coping mechanisms that can lead to a loss of joy and overall well-being."
This behavior, while seemingly productive, ultimately undermines personal happiness and mental health.
Practical Tools for Reclaiming Joy
To help listeners implement these strategies, Dr. Joseph introduces the "5-4-3-2-1" grounding technique at [46:39], a simple exercise to stay present and reduce anxiety:
- 5 things you can see
- 4 things you can feel
- 3 things you can hear
- 2 things you can smell
- 1 thing you can taste
She shares her personal experience, noting the calming effect of this practice:
"As you do that, your nervous system calms."
Personal Reflections and Applications
Jenna shares her own journey of rediscovering joy through hobbies and community involvement, emphasizing the transformative power of being present. She relates to Dr. Joseph's methods, recognizing the importance of balancing work with personal fulfillment.
Conclusion and Key Takeaways
As the episode concludes, Dr. Joseph encourages listeners to validate their emotions, identify what diminishes their joy, and actively work to reclaim it. She emphasizes that joy is a birthright and essential for personal health and community well-being:
"Joy is built into your DNA. So try to reclaim that joy."
Where to Learn More
Listeners interested in exploring these concepts further can visit Dr. Judith Joseph's website at DrJudithJoseph.com and purchase her book "High Functioning: Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy," available wherever books are sold.
Note: This summary intentionally omits segments related to advertisements and sponsorships to focus solely on the valuable content discussed between Jenna Kutcher and Dr. Judith Joseph.