← The Goal Digger Podcast | Top Business and Marketing Podcast for Creatives, Entrepreneurs, and Women in Business
The Goal Digger Podcast | Top Business and Marketing Podcast for Creatives, Entrepreneurs, and Women in Business
913: When Science Meets Spirituality: How to Trust Your Gut and Grow Into Who You’re Meant To Be
00:58:14
With Dr. Tara Swart and Jenna Kutcher
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Why?
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Because Dell AI PCs with Intel Core Ultra processors are newly designed to help you do more faster. It's pretty amazing what they can do in a day's work. They can generate code, edit images, multitask without leg draft emails, summarize documents, create live translations. They can even extend your battery life so you never have to worry about forgetting your charger. It's like having a personal assistant built right into your PC to cover the menial tasks so that you can focus on what matters. That's the power of Dell AI with Intel inside with deals on Dell AI PCs like the Dell 16 plus starting at $749.99, it is the perfect time to refresh your tech and take back your time. Upgrade your AI PC today by visiting Dell.com deals that's Dell.com deals foreign.
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Is.
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Sponsored in part by SKIMS, LinkedIn, Mercury and Greenlight. I've been a Skims fan for years and the Fits Everybody collection is a favorite that I just keep reaching for. Shop the Skims Fits Everybody collection@skims.com Golddicker stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads. Spend 250 on your first campaign and get a free 250 credit for the next one at LinkedIn.com goal Mercury streamlines your banking and finances in one place so you can focus on growing your online business. Visit mercury.com to apply online in 10 minutes. Teach your kids real world money skills with Greenlight. Start your risk free trial today@greenlight.com Golddigger as always, you can find all of our incredible deals in the show notes. Now let's dive on in what if angel numbers, gut feelings, and random synchronicities weren't just coincidences but clues? In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Tara Swart to talk about the brain science behind intuition, the senses we never talk about, and the forgotten wisdom that could reconnect you with your full potential. I'm Jenna Kutcher and I help you trade hustle for purpose and build a business that gives you the life you actually want to live. From a $300 Craigsl camera to a seven figure business I run from home, I've learned that success isn't just about what you do, it's about how you live. Here you'll get strategies that work, systems that give you your time back, and steps that turn your effort into results and impact. If you're ready for clarity Confidence and a business that feels as good as it looks. You're in the right place. This is the Gold Digger podcast.
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Have you ever had a moment where life literally felt like it was just sending you a message? Maybe it was a strange coincidence or a gut feeling that you just couldn't ignore, or a chance encounter that changed everything? Most of us, we've probably brushed those experiences off, chalking them up to randomness. But what if they were actually guiding you?
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My guest today has spent her life.
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Bridging science and what many consider the spiritual. And she's here to show us how tuning into those unexplainable signs might be one of the most powerful tools we have for living a more fully aligned, fulfilling life. Dr. Taurus Ward is a neuroscientist with.
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A PhD, a former Oxford trained medical.
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Doctor, a senior advisor at MIT Sloan, a chief science officer, and the best selling author of the Source, which has.
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Been translated into 38 languages.
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She's advised high level leaders across the globe. And this isn't her first time on the Gold Digger podcast. I've linked her interview from 2021, all about the neuroscience of man manifestation in the show notes. It's such a great episode. I actually go back and listen to that one often. What I love about Tara is that.
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Her work sits at the intersection of.
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Neuroscience, intuition, and human transformation.
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And today we're exploring how to reconnect with the deeper intelligence that's always been within you. Whether you call it your gut, your inner knowing, or something greater, this conversation.
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Will give you a new lens on.
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How to make decisions, overcome blocks, and.
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Open yourself up to the possibility. So if you've ever wondered whether those signs you've been noticing are just coincidences.
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Or if they're trying to tell you.
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Something, this episode is gold. It feels like two friends catching up on life and the beautiful evolution of it. Dr. Tara Sport, welcome back to the Gold Digger Podcast. I want to dive off the deep end with you, my dear friend. Welcome back to the podcast and I want for you to explain to us why do you think so many of us have been conditioned to ignore our intuition? And what is the cost of that? What is it costing us to ignore it?
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So I think the reason that we've, we've sort of accepted that it's okay to ignore that, even though we feel it and we have to override it, is because until sophisticated scanning technologies could show us that how intuition works in the brain and the body, it was so intangible that people couldn't rely on it. Especially in the workplace. Imagine you said to your boss, well, I made that decision based on my gut. I mean, you feel like you would get fired, whereas if you even made a bad decision but you could explain it rationally, that might be acceptable.
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B
That's fascinating. What do you think is causing us to kind of separate? Because as you were saying that I.
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Feel like there is a huge separation.
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B
Especially in women, between information and intuition. It's almost like a. We have to choose this or that, and we're missing the opportunity to marry those things in our lives and in our businesses.
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C
You're so right. And again, we have to think about the reasons that that may have happened. It could be because you couldn't prove. Could be because it just wasn't valued in society, although it was. I feel like we've forgotten the things that we knew in ancient wisdom, you know, so it feels like we're coming back to that. This idea that we have to choose between them is obviously wrong. So there are many different modalities of thinking. Emotional thinking, physicality, creative thinking, motivational thinking, and we can use all of them. I think that, first of all, accepting that it's a different way of thinking that you can add into your logical, rational thinking is a game changer. Because if you don't accept that you can use it, that it can be additive, then, you know, you're not going to even sort of acknowledge it. I. I feel like I'd love to know what you think, but I. I was intuitive from quite an early age. I don't think I even knew what it was called. I just felt that I knew something and I would go with that even if it didn't make sense. And then over the years, obviously, I valued that more, and I've. I've learned to hone that skill even more.
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Oh, my gosh. Yes, I agree. I mean, it's so interesting because I. Even in the early days of this podcast, I talked about the Gut game, where I was like, how do we listen to our guts? Like, and it was like. I didn't necessarily have the language of, like, what is this? Or, like, what it is, but there have been so many instances, and my sweet husband deals with it all the time. Literally, the other day I was like, there is this thing coming up. I'm invited to it. I have to be there. I don't know why. I just know in my soul that this is the right opportunity at the right timing. I don't even know who's going to be there, but I just like. And that Is like how I have operated so much. And it's really interesting because I feel like we, especially in the entrepreneurial space, we have this binary thinking, right? Like it's either the head or the heart, and they're very separate. And so many of us enter into.
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This space because of our heart, like because of the creativity and, and the.
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Desire and all of the things that make us who we are. And then we enter into the business side of things and it's like we try to shut that piece off and lean on logic and strategy and all those things. And I think that that is where we're almost like living these divided lives and wondering why certain things feel incredibly impossible or hard or we're like hitting ourselves against the wall over and over and over again. And I think it's because we don't know how to marry those two things. I don't know.
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What do you think?
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C
I think that's true. And there's two things that you said that I want to pick up because they, they were really helpful to me. So I think they will be to listeners as well, which is that you must be internally validated by your intuition. You must trust your own intuition and, you know, learn how to grow that. But external validation, like from your husband, which I also had, really helps because when you say something a bit crazy like we should move to that country, and the person, you know, the most important person in your life says, okay, if that's what you feel, then let's go for it. Yeah, that's really validating as well. And I think the other thing that, where you said about, you know, the kind of person that becomes an entrepreneur or, you know, leads a certain type of life, is a risk taker. Now intuition is amazing if you're a risk taker because you just know and you know you can take healthy risks, logic will tend to try and you know, your brain, the logical parts of your brain will try to keep you safe and bring up memories of all the times that you did something risky and it went wrong. And so basically you're taking a person who is creative, who is entrepreneurial, who is a risk taker and then saying, don't use any of the special superpowers that you have. Just think like everyone else.
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B
It's so interesting. And, you know, it's really interesting. As I've done therapy over the last few years, I really can get into my head and I swear my therapist probably, I mean, I pay her a lot of money to just tell me to like, get back into your body. Like, get back in your body. Where do you feel this? Like, what is the first memory you have of feeling something like this? And it's so interesting because I can logic my way out and through just about anything. Right? Like, I can lean on logic, but it takes for me so much more work and intention to really, like, tap in to my body, to my heart, to my intuition. And so do you have any tips for people like me who tend to lean on logic or tend to, like, kind of get out of their body to overthink solutions or ideas or strategies? Like, are there any practices that can kind of help us reconnect with who we are, who we've always been, and what we ultimately know?
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C
Okay, I love that you've asked this question, because if there's one thing that I want our listeners to take away from this conversation, it's what I'm about to say. But I need to do a backstory before I actually answer. Please do. So what we understand about how intuition works now is almost totally different to what we would have spoken about after I wrote the Source and I was last on your podcast. Yes. Okay, just to do a little recap, what I would have said then is that we have the limbic system of the brain, which is where patterns and intuition is processed. And that's about the size of your own clenched fist. And we have the more logical cortex around that, which is about equal in thickness. And so all the things that we need to remember to live our daily life, to do our job, to look after our families, to survive, is held in that outer cortex. And it's like our working memory. It's the day to day things we need to know as we experience things in life lessons. We can't remember everything we've experienced in our life, but we do remember patterns. We do gain wisdom. I would have said before that gets pushed deeper into the limbic system through a process called Hebbian learning, named after the ne neuroscientist Donald Hepp. And we also believed that it would then get pushed even deeper through the spinal cord into the gut neurons. And now when the term gut instinct first was used, we didn't have all this scanning technology. So it's interesting that we were using that terminology before we really understood that intuition could indeed be held in the nerve cells in your gut. What we know now that is a total game changer is that talking therapy, which you've mentioned, but also obviously a good therapist that's asking you to get into your body relies on that nervous system that relies on your central nervous system and your gut neurons, particularly to access your intuition. But if we look at the field of research into trauma and that very famous book by Bessel van der Kolk, the Body keeps the Score, what we've understood very much from that is that people with ptsd, the part of the brain that articulates speech, the broca's area, shuts down, is shut down by ptsd. And people say, I have no words for this. I'm speechless. I'm dumbfounded. And what the research has shown is that if they do yoga, if they go for a walk, if they dance, chant, hum, drum, it can actually release some of that trauma that's held in their body. And we believe that it's held not just in musculature, but also in the fascia, which is the connective tissue that holds all the organs and the skin and the muscles together. I can really dig deep into the science of that. But suffice to say for now that trauma gets patterns, get physically embedded in the body. And the hypothesis of intuition is that why doesn't positive wisdom get hidden in your body, too? And how can you access that, not just by speaking or writing in your journal, but by going out and doing those physical things that can release it where it's hidden in your body, it back into your gut neurons and your central nervous system so that you can actually articulate it and realize it. Effy.
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B
Wow. So, wow, that is, like, wild. So are you saying that for people that maybe struggle of, like, getting in their body or having the words to express things like movement, chanting, drumming, like, all of those could be practices that could help them start to move that energy through or out of their body?
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C
Absolutely. And whenever I feel like we don't have an answer currently in modern science for anything, I always go back to evolution. And if we look at our ancestors in paleolithic times, they drummed, they danced, they chanted, they hummed, they beat their chests. When they went through grief, they didn't just wail. They physically beat themselves because they understood that it had to be released physically as well as verbally. Now, in those days, we did not have resources to do anything that wasn't crucial to our survival. So we weren't dancing for fun, except that it would cause bonding in the community. So that's important, too. So it leads us to believe that these practices were actually part of honing your instincts, trusting your intuition, being able to read the land and, you know, predict the weather and. And things like this. So, yeah, it's just so Exciting to me to bring together the modern science with the ancient wisdom.
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B
Okay, so you are. It's really. I mean, it's serendipitous because I feel like the things that you're talking about, like, I have been either having conversations about behind the scenes or like, my husband and I were literally talking about the body keep score the other night with someone that we know who is just dealing with a lot of physical ailments. And we're like, I feel like she's been through things, like. And there's probably certain things that she is just literally holding onto in her body cannot move. But it's also bringing me back to the season and stage of our lives, which was a really dark one when we went through my miscarriages. And one thing that was so interesting to me is at the time I was like, super into CrossFit and like, cortisol raising activities. And I had hired a natural fertility doctor and she did a cortisol test and she was like, what are you doing between like 9am and 10am because your cortisol is just like spiking and tanking. And it was when I was doing really intense workouts and she had said, like, why don't we focus on your nervous system and figure out, like, go on a walk or move your body in a gentler way. And I. Now that you're saying all this, I'm like, looking at the dots being connected in terms of actually regulating my nervous system and feeling safe again in my own body, but also in helping move maybe some of those things through so that I could be the kind of vessel I wanted to be. Is that. I mean, am I looney tunes right now or is that like, accurate? Because I think about that all the time, about just the different types of movement and how it like, healed a piece of me that maybe I was missing.
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C
Yeah. I mean, I'm a massive advocate of gentle exercise and I quite regularly say on social media that high intensity exercise can actually be counterproductive because it can spike your cortisol levels. I think, you know, we all need to get to know our bodies better. So at some stage you wouldn't have needed a cortisol test. I think in future you would be able to feel that actually what I'm doing is too much and it's not good for me.
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Yeah.
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C
And that's what I would love everyone to learn to be able to recognize. So I was actually at a lunch party and there's a really interesting woman, very high energy, type A, you know, sort of law firm partner. And she was telling me, you know, she found out that I was a business coach and she was telling me a bit about her work and lifestyle. And then she said, so you know, to deal with the stress, I go and do this like super high intensity exercise. And I just looked at her and said, yeah, you're exactly the kind of person that shouldn't be doing that. And she just actually looked at me and she went, I know, but she couldn't help it. It's just, you know, everything is like you're on that. That sort of wheel of just kind of doing more and doing better and pushing harder and going faster. So yeah, no, I think so many people are in the position that. That you were in.
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B
Yeah.
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C
So yoga is particularly popular in this. In this field of, of treating PTSD because a. It's gentle but also it's very much about connecting the mind and the body and being in the body and you know, sort of feeling around sort of what feels good, what sort of, you know, where trauma shows up in your body. But also the things that I mentioned, like, you know, the sort of physical movement. But equally art and creativity can be very healing for the same reason. So there's actually an organization called Ashes to Art where firefighters who go into traumatic scenes when they come out, they immediately have to paint what they've witnessed. And it really shows a reduction in trauma staying stuck in their nervous system. So you know, people like the kind of people that we're talking about, the Taipei's or the entrepreneurs could also do art therapy as you know, a form of not speaking but kind of getting trauma out of the brain body system.
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B
That's so amazing and I can so resonate with that. And it's interesting as a mom with young kids, our dining room table is not used to eat because it's just an art table. I mean like we like literally right now have paint out and papers and all different things. And I have never done more art than I am as a mother. And it's so fun because it reminds you of like the joy of doing things just for doing them, like for the enjoyment of it. Right. Because I think so many people that we're talking about me as well, where we get so used to like tying everything to a result or tying everything back to a business or whatever that is. It's like, man, there is so much of life that is just so enjoyable just doing it for the joy. And I feel like my kids have been a mirror of that of like it doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't have to end up on the wall. It's just the enjoyment of doing that. And so I think that's amazing. Okay, I need to know. You are just my favorite person when it comes to, like, the nerdy neuroscience things. And so what is actually, like, from a neuroscience science perspective, what is happening in our brain when our gut is, like, signaling something or, like, kind of introducing a sign for us? Like, when we feel something in our gut, how are they connected and how do we kind of interpret that in that way?
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C
So I think the easiest way to start with that is to talk about what we call visceral reactions to things. So, you know, have you ever experienced something and then you get, like a shiver down your spine or you get butterflies in your stomach? That's the best way, I think, for people to understand that. Oh, yeah. Yes. I have had a physical reaction to something, you know, that's actually an emotional. A psychological situation in my life. Yeah. So I think it's. And, you know, in my friendship group. And tell me if it's the same with you, because I'm genuine curious. If we say something to each other that we feel is, like, strongly emotional or intuitively feels right, we tend to say, oh, all the hairs on my arms just stood on end.
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B
Yes, yes, 100%, yes.
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C
And I think sometimes we say that we don't really know what that means, but it, you know, it's either like, yeah, I'm vibing with you emotionally or intuitively, that feels right. But, you know, why does that happen? We don't. We don't really understand necessarily why that happens. There are a few theories for why it might happen, but we interpret that as our skin, but, you know, our gut, as in the bigger sense of the word, you know, our intuition telling us something. And. And that's a skill that we can learn. So we've spoken before about neuroplasticity, which is the ability of the brain to grow and change at any age. And so tapping into those signs from your body is, you know, a start to. It's just another way of accessing your intuition. For me, it often tends to be just a deep knowing. But equally, if I feel something physically, then I will sort of really acknowledge that and try to kind of learn, you know, what those things are. But I also use my intuition to interpret signs that come from outside of my body as well. So a lot of signs come from nature. You know, I think some typical ones that people tend to acknowledge are like, you know, a white feather is Often called the angelic business card. So usually they say if you just, you know, you see a white feather randomly, then it could mean that someone that you love, that you've lost is. Is sending you a message that you're on the right path. A lot of people believe, you know, that birds or butterflies can be messages, signs from beyond. And, you know, this is getting super spiritual.
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B
I love it. Let's go.
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C
Woo.
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B
Woo.
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C
Well, I was going to say angel numbers.
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B
I was just thinking that Drew and I might. We have tattoo appointments and we might get 1111 tattooed on us. Because I see 1111 everywhere. I mean, literally, I. The amount of screenshots I have on my phone, times that I like, or I'll be like, working out and it'll. I'll look up. Yesterday I went to turn my sauna on and it was like 111 degrees. And I was like, that's so weird. Like, it's everywhere. So anyways, I love.
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A
I love angel numbers.
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C
I mean, a lot of people love, you know, 11 or 11 11.
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B
Yeah.
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C
But all the repeating angel numbers have different meanings. Yes. And so mine are 11 and 44 and any combination of. So I have so many screenshots of 1141, 1140, 1444. Yesterday, I, as a sort of guilty pleasure, I was walking along Rodeo Drive. Rodeo Drive. And I cannot tell you how many 44s I saw in all the door numbers. And on, you know, you're like, what is happening? Yeah. It was actually so many that I felt embarrassed to take that many photos. So I just thought, I'll just absorb this. I won't. I need the photographic evidence. Yes. You know, I mean, what is that? I think again, if we go back to ancient wisdom, we've forgotten a lot of what we knew. We used to be so in tune with nature. We used to be, you know, able to include mystical things like ancestor worship in our lives, but we've just moved so far away from that now. But it's really interesting because I think a big question at the intersection of science and spirituality now is, do you have to be able to prove something for it to have value in your life? If 1111 has value in your life, does it matter that we. We don't necessarily know why that pings for you with your intuition? I don't think so. There's so many theories about the way consciousness works or the way the universe works, and none of them are actually provable. So the way that we've. We've accepted currently that the universe works and that consciousness works are not provable. And my best analogy for a lot of the stuff in the book, and I really want to mention the senses in a second, is if you think about the observable universe, so we can only see as far into the universe as the bounce back from the speed of light. But we know there is more to the universe than we can see, and we know that that will become more visible over time and that the universe is either infinite or boundless. We can't see it all, but we know it's there. So if you take that as an ex, you know, something that's like quite easy to understand, then the next thing that you know that I come to sort of in the book is about our senses. So how many senses do you think we have?
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B
Well, I think we know five, right?
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C
Yeah. But some people would say, don't we have a sixth sense, you know, is intuition. Some people, because I've done a lot of research on this, say balance is the sixth sense. And so as I started researching, I read this scientific paper that said we may have 22 to 33 senses and love that they're angel numbers, by the way.
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B
Is it like clairvoyance, like all of those. Are those considered sentences? Oh, okay.
- [26:07]
C
And this is completely physiological. So it has to be an external thing that stimulates a receptor that then your body has a physiological response to. So that's how, like strict I was on what is a sense? Okay. So I did the literature review and I came up with 34 currently known senses. And let me just give you an example. So taste is subdivided into five, but umami was only discovered in the 1980s. So all I'm trying to say with the observable universe and this number of senses, and it includes things like balance and how you know that your bladder's full or your stomach's full or, you know, the oxygen levels in your blood is. We are capable of so much more than we even currently realize, and there's going to be even more. So those things that you just mentioned, like clairvoyance and Claire cognizance, why not see if you can expand your consciousness in that way? That's what I've been playing around with in the last few years. I've been quite quiet, you know, with my work. Obviously this book's coming out soon and yeah, it's. It's all the research that I've been doing the last few years, including experiments on myself and my own consciousness.
- [27:21]
B
You are speaking to me, girl.
- [27:25]
A
Let's take a quick pause to thank our sponsors for making this episode possible. Isn't it wild to think that we might have senses we don't even fully understand yet? That we could be walking through the world, only half aware of what we're capable of? When we come back, we shift into intuition, ancestral wisdom, and what it means to reconnect with the parts of ourselves we've forgotten. We'll be back in just a minute. This message is sponsored by green light. My 6 year old woke up this morning asking if she could do chores to earn money.
- [27:56]
B
Why?
- [27:56]
A
Because she read a fancy Nancy book where Nancy worked to buy fabulous shoes. And suddenly my daughter wanted to experience the same pride of buying something special with her own money. But here's what hit me. I had no good way to help her actually see and feel her money growing. Cash gets lost, piggy banks are abstract, and she can't really understand the connection between effort and reward. That's why we started using Greenlight. Greenlight is the easy, convenient way for parents to raise financially smart kids and for families to navigate life together. And maybe that's why millions of parents trust and kids love learning about money on Greenlight, the number of one family finance and safety app. Now when she does chores, I can instantly send her earnings to her card. She watches her balance grow in real time and feels genuine ownership over her money. And when she's ready for those fabulous shoes, she'll swipe her own card and experience that incredible feeling Nancy had. Don't wait to teach your kids real world money skills. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today@greenlight.com gold digger. That's greenlight.com goal digger to get started greenlight.com golddigger you know that sinking feeling when you see your latest campaign report? 87% of your budget went to people who would never buy from you. Random scrollers clicking your business course ad students engaging with your entrepreneur content. You're perfect ad creative about building sustainable income shown to people who aren't even trying to build a business. That's why LinkedIn ads exists. While other platforms guess who might be interested? LinkedIn knows who your buyers are. Target the exact job titles making purchasing decisions. Reach VPs of marketing at Growing Companies. Find HR directors at mid sized firms. Target entrepreneurs ready to invest in their growth. Zero waste, maximum impact. Stop hemorrhaging budget on random audiences and start reaching actual decision makers who can write the checks only with LinkedIn ads. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one, just go to LinkedIn.com goal that's LinkedIn.com G O A L Terms and conditions apply. Running a business means wearing every hat, creating content one minute, handling customer service the next, then trying to figure out shipping logistics. It can get overwhelming fast. When you're building your dreams, finding the right tool that not only helps but simplifies everything is a game changer for millions of businesses. That tool is Shopify. Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide and 10% of all e commerce in the US from Gymshark and Mattel to brands just starting out. With hundreds of ready to use templates, you can create a store that matches your brand. Shopify's AI tools write product descriptions and even headlines so you can create content faster. Plus, with their built in email and social tools, it's like having a marketing team in your back pocket. From inventory to shipping to returns, Shopify is the partner every entrepreneur needs. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your business idea into With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com godigger go to shopify.com golddigger shopify.com golddigger.
- [31:24]
B
You know, it was interesting. My grandma just had her 90th birthday and like I, when I was writing out her card because she loves her cards and she just reads them over and over and over again and I was just thinking about how so much of my life right now is almost like a circle back to all of the wise things that she knew and taught that almost didn't skip my mom, mom's generation. But my mom's generation was when women were entering the work field and now they're juggling parenthood and mothering and you know, it's just a different era. And so it's almost like this return back to that like wisdom of like gardening. And we were talking about how we have chickens now and my mom was like, oh, I remember my great grandma had chickens. And it was, it's this return in a lot of ways to a lot of that knowing. And on her 90th birthday, like I was just writing down all of the things that like it took me until this point in my life to really appreciate and understand and come back to, but there is so much wisdom in there. And I often get really concerned about younger generations, mine included, that we aren't leaning on our elders and learning and asking enough questions because we come at it from this like all knowing well the information is accessible. And it's like there's just so much benefit to learn from people who have gone before us. What would you say?
- [32:51]
D
Totally.
- [32:51]
C
I mean, I feel like science is really only catching up with, with our grandparents now, truly. For instance, when you were saying because you've got young children who do a lot of art and painting and craft, that you're enjoying that and you know, you've learned through your kids that it doesn't matter if it's perfect. Well, there's a new area of research called neuro aesthetics, which is about art and beauty and nature, sort of the awe and wonder of those things. And it's about both making and beholding. And one of the things that that area of research has proven is that the benefits on your mental health, your physical health, and your longevity of making art, there's no relevance of whether it's good or not the act of making it improves your mental health, makes you live longer, and it's nothing to do with how good you are. So, you know, it's kind of like I want to encourage people to dance around their living room when no one's watching.
- [33:45]
B
Yeah, truly. Not just the quotes actually do it.
- [33:50]
C
Exactly.
- [33:51]
B
Oh, I love that one thing that we've kind of touched on that I really, I'm so curious what your take is. Is that a lot of people that are listening, listening and, and I have come to learn and have really come to like back home to myself in that like, for me, success is a calm nervous system. And it's something that I didn't understand, didn't appreciate, didn't get it because I felt like I was always in this like high stakes, win or lose, zero sum game of entrepreneurship. But for people that are maybe in that zone and for the past version of me that really didn't even even see a way out of it, how can entrepreneurs start like tuning in more to their nervous system, to their intuition, to signals and signs? Like, there was a time in my life where the only thing I saw was the cracking of my laptop and the closing of it. Right. Like there was nothing. My eyes were not lifted. And so what would you say to somebody that's in that stage of their journey?
- [34:50]
C
Yeah. And like I, you know, the first thing I would say is, we've all been there. And you know, it's a privilege when you actually have some time to not have to be like that, that all the time. But there are lots of small things that you can do to alleviate some of that stress. The first one I would say is Time in nature, even if it, you know, ideally that would be a long walk in nature, but if it means stepping away from your laptop for five minutes to listen to some bird song outdoors, it's better than nothing. So again, for ancient wisdom reasons, birds would not sing if predators were around. So when birds are singing, we feel safe, and it actually lowers our cortisol levels and our blood pressure and our respiration, our breathing rate. So it's a small thing that can actually reset your nervous system. Breath work can quite quickly reset your nervous system. But I think people need to be really aware of how does it show up when you're in the sympathetic fright fight, flight state, and how does it feel when you're in the parasympathetic rest and digest state? Just having an idea of how that changes your rate of breathing or, you know, your heart rate, if you can feel it, or whether you're sweating or not, or how anxious you feel, it's good to kind of understand how that shows up. And then, like I said, time in nature, birdsong, particularly, any type of breath work, just, you know, movement, like we've already discussed, or looking at some beautiful art or listening to some, you know, really relaxing music. There are so many small, small things you can do. Obviously there are bigger things, you know, and I've outlined them all in, in my book, which is actually called the Signs, the new science of how to trust your instincts. So it's very much about going back to trusting yourself, understanding yourself. And then, and I would say I've, I've been where you've been and kind of thought, you know, a nervous system that I can regulate well is like the biggest gift. But I would say now, in my last few years of research, that feeling in tune with nature and the universe is the next level of that. You know, it's, it's, it's kind of going from, okay, I'm okay within myself to how in tune I am with what's around me has changed my life. I mean, it's, I, I, once you live like that, you could never go, you know, back to just looking at the laptop all the time kind of thing.
- [37:08]
B
Oh, I, I couldn't agree more. I feel like we've been on parallel journeys in our own little way. It's like, wild. It'll be so fun to listen back to our old episode. But I, I laugh, I almost laugh at the humor of my life and maybe the whiplash that people who are watching it are like, wait, what is going on? Because, I mean, even last night I got the kids to bed and I went and sat outside in the grass watching our chickens walk around with our dog in front of our garden. And like, it just. I, I couldn't agree more. I have to touch grass every single day, multiple times a day. And I was talking to somebody the other day about how our kids aren't in the stage of life yet where they're super involved in like sports. Like we don't. We would like to keep our calendars open for possibility is how we like to present it. AKA I don't want to be like trapped down yet by tournaments and things like that. And I was saying, you know, like every day the kids go out to the garden and this morning my 6 year old ran out to see if there was an egg laid by the chickens and we have bees and like they are getting an education and experiences in such different ways that I as like an achieving athlete and someone who is striving, it was just a different experience. Neither one is better or, or worse. It's just different. And it's just really interesting because I do absolutely feel connected to the land and nature. The other day I was like talking to one of my friends and I could tell she was like really in her head and stressed out and I was like, go outside and just like look at leaves for like five minutes. Like literally like go lay on the ground and like just look at the wind and leaves and like, and like it's just, just there's so many beautiful lessons and things and it's like such a gift to almost feel small in this beautiful world we're in. It's just wild, isn't it?
- [39:08]
C
Oh, I love the way you've said that. I just, yeah. That idea of feeling small is what it's actually saying is how amazing and awe inspiring and huge like the universe and life and love is, you know, and that. Yes, we're a tiny part of that. But there's actually, I guess more so in the audiobook because I have read out my own audiobook again, like, why do I do this to myself? Yes.
- [39:31]
B
No, it's the best though.
- [39:33]
C
It is better. I know, but I've got some sort of mini meditations I would say for each of the senses. So. And so one of them is actually go outside and stare at a leaf for a minute. Yes. I love it. More to it, but it's. Yeah, you're right. We've been on very parallel journeys. Yes.
- [39:50]
B
I want to know just like from a personal level because I mean the you that came on the show many years ago, like, neuroscientist, rooted in. In all, you know, facts and. And information and all those beautiful things.
- [40:05]
A
What has it been like for you.
- [40:07]
B
To really embody and evolve with having all of that knowledge, but tapping into something that maybe wasn't as easily accessed for you? Like, what does that felt like? Because to me, that is almost like not a shedding of an identity, but the evolution of who you are, what you are known for, and how you show up. How has that been?
- [40:28]
C
Yeah. So, I mean, it's interesting. Even with the source, I felt like potentially that was a bit of a professional risk. You know, I was a professor at mit, and, you know, very much like you said, it sort of basing all of my work on hard science. I'll be really honest with you, Jenna. I've had a very tough few years, and it's made me have to rethink things personally. So I've been on that journey of investigating what kind of spirituality could, you know, help me as a human just trying to navigate life. But I've also had, I guess, the privilege of stepping back as a neuroscientist and watching myself go through this journey and thinking, oh, this is interesting. This is something you never would have done before. And really, kind of in this really meta way, being able to both navigate, you know, what I've had to personally, but also see the benefits as a scientist and kind of try to explain some of the science. And that's really what I've tried to do in the book, is say, look, this is the journey that I went on. It's probably not what you would expect from me, but because I've had so much benefit of hindsight, I want to share that with you, but I know you'll need some of it backed up by science. So I've tried to do that, too.
- [41:43]
B
I just want to say for a moment, just like, how beautiful and brave it is. And I think that for my listener, we are all reinventing ourselves. We are all evolving. And I know that there have been times in my life where it's like the brand or the Persona no longer fits. And it is. It feels like a risk. It feels like a diversion. It feels confusing. It feels like people aren't going to understand or get it. And that's not always the point. Right? That isn't the point, in fact. And I also, as you were talking, I just think that one thing as humans, we have to remember is, like, we are taking all of our past experiences with us, all that past journey is serving you in this current journey like that you are see still leaning on and taking so much of that with you. We're not like fully abandoning anything. You're carrying it all with you and I just think it's beautiful. It's an invitation and so many women are probably listening to this and in some way shape or form in their life, they are clothing themselves in an identity that doesn't fit or doesn't resonate with them or doesn't feel right. And so I just want to honor that because it is scary and it can feel hard, especially when you do it publicly. And so it's just beautiful.
- [43:11]
C
Thank you Jenna. You and your family are so lovely to me all the time and I love you.
- [43:16]
A
If this conversation is stirring something in you, if it helped you feel seen or reminded you of your power, take.
- [43:22]
B
A quick second and think of someone.
- [43:23]
A
In your life who might need to hear it too. I'm going to send it over to all of my mom friends because what Tara is sharing is just too good not to pass on along. So while we take a moment to thank our sponsors, send this in your girls group chat because coming up, we're getting into the simple practices you can try today to start reprogramming old thought patterns and beliefs. This podcast is brought to you by Mercury Banking that helps entrepreneurs do more with their money When I first started taking my business seriously, I remember feeling stretched thin. I was juggling invoices, tracking payments and managing cash flow across different tools. It was messy and I thought banking had to be that way. That's why I was impressed with Mercury. Unlike traditional banking, that feels clunky and outdated, Mercury is designed to make managing money effortless so that you can focus on what actually grows your business. Everything you need is in one intuitive product. Banking cards, spend, management, invoicing, and more all in one place. Plus, Mercury flexes to fit all types of businesses, so whether you're a funded startup agency or e commerce brand, it can be tailored to you. Visit mercury.com to join over 200,000 entrepreneurs who use Mercury. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. For important details, check the show Notes can we talk about how bad underwear can ruin your entire day? Like I used to put on underwear and a bra, knowing that I'd be adjusting it by 10am and completely over it by lunchtime. That is why I am obsessed with the Skims Fits Everybody collection. Now I bought skims for years, but I swear this line is a total game changer. The Fits Everybody Scoop Roulette has buttery, soft fabric that literally feels like nothing. And I mean that in the best way I can put it on. And I forget that it exists. I'm so confident in these pieces that when I packed my grease suitcase, it was basically all skims. I even wore their bodysuit from for a recent branding photo shoot. Because when something fits this well, you just trust it. When your underwear actually works, you stop wasting precious mental energy on it and you can focus on everything else that matters. If you're tired of uncomfortable intimates, this is your sign to try. Fits Everybody Shop Skims Fits Everybody collection@skims.com Once you place your order, make sure to let them know we sent you. Just select podcast in the survey and choose the Gold Digger Pack podcast in the drop down menu that follows. Last February, when the Minnesota winter felt like it would never end, I looked at my family and I said, that's it. We're going south. So we booked a house on Airbnb with a pool, enough space for each of us to actually get good sleep and all of the little luxuries we didn't have at home. But what really stuck with me wasn't just the house. It was all these thoughtful touches. Fresh coffee waiting for for us, local restaurant recommendations, even pool towels that actually smelled good. Drew and I kept looking at each other like, how did they think of everything? That's when I realized this host was a pro. They had clearly figured out how to make people feel genuinely cared for and not just housed. Now, having been a host myself, I understand how much care it takes to create that kind of experience. The thing is, not every host can always be there in person. Life gets busy. Maybe you're traveling, working remotely, or you've got a second property sitting empty. That is why I love that Airbnb offers tools to help make hosting simpler. With their co host network, you can partner with experienced local co hosts who manage the details from guest communication to on the ground support, so that your space and your guests are cared for even when you can't be there. If hosting has ever felt overwhelming, this makes it easier than ever. Find a co host now@airbnb.com host.
- [47:14]
B
Okay, one thing I'm curious about, and this is something that will tap into some of the things even I'm dealing with in my life is I feel like there's always this kind of tension, especially even in what we're just talking about between, like the strategy of things and kind of surrendering, right? Like as entrepreneurs, as business owners, as even just women. Like we Love a plan. Right. We love a good, well, executable plan.
- [47:38]
C
Plan.
- [47:39]
B
But sometimes life is calling us to, like, follow breadcrumbs. Sometimes life is forcing us to pivot. How have you learned to kind of hold both structure while also leaving room for the magic or the intuition to play into your life and your professional being?
- [47:58]
C
I would say I'm still learning.
- [48:00]
B
Okay. Same.
- [48:03]
C
I have a couple of. I've never called them this before, but I'm going to call them magic tricks. Okay.
- [48:09]
B
Love it.
- [48:09]
C
But when I'm in the moment of stressing and doubting, sometimes it takes me a while to remember that I have these magic tricks. So I can spend days. But what I've learned, you know, with. With the repetition of this, is that when I stress and I get anxious about something and I try to, like, force it to go the way that I want it to, and I. I doubt that, you know, my own resources or the universe is going to get me to where I want to be. I delay it by doing that, I delay the outcome that I want. As soon as I realize if I surrender every time I do that, it somehow magically works out. That happens. Now, I can't explain that with science. I can only say that I trust myself, I back myself. I've had so much evidence of that happening. Yeah. I just need to get better at remembering quicker. That that's what I need to do. Yes.
- [49:04]
B
It's like a muscle. We got to put in the reps of that. I love that. And I think, too, it's like I've tried to learn how to hold things with a loose grip. Like, there is this meditation that I would listen to where it was just talking about, like, imagine a stream, and your hand is open in the stream, and you can feel the water flowing through it. But you're not trying to, like, trap the water or hold it tight like it's moving. And I feel like that is life. And I also feel like that's business, where it's like, how do we just loosen the grip? And for so many of us, like, I am such a control freak. I love being in control. It's like, come on, A, B, C and D, let's go. But I feel like loosening the grip leaves room for magic, leaves room for possibility. I don't know, but it is. It's something that. Where I think you have to put in the reps of, like, doing it and. And recognizing it when it's worked. Right. Because I think oftentimes we just move through things so quickly that we don't take time to be like, hey, when I actually was open, something awesome happened. Right. Not interesting.
- [50:11]
C
That's actually a really beautiful visual analogy for something that someone said to me. So this wasn't a close friend, but it really stuck with me. So I can't remember what it was about now, but I said to her, I'm really stressing about X. Yeah. And she said, how is stressing going to change anything? And it. That really hit me. And I was like, okay, that's totally true. So I will now stop. And that's when, you know, something magically changed, like I said. And I. And I thought, oh, yes. Whenever I do that, it happens. And I think of your analogy. If I think of my, my hand with water running through it. Yeah. And I try to close my hand and hold on to that water. That's not going to work, is it?
- [50:47]
B
Yeah. And it's not going to be the same water in your hand anyways. Right. Like, it's like, let it flow. It's so funny. Without hesitation. Every single time. So every single time before I have like a big interview day or a webinar day, my kids will wake up in the middle of the night. Like, Drew and I just now joke about it. It's like, what the heck? So last night at midnight, my 3 year old starts like calling out to me and we kind of almost just laughed because I was like, here we go. And I ran into her room and she's like, mom, I'm worried about the umbrella. We had an umbrella in our yard and she was thinking about this umbrella in the middle of the night and she didn't know that her dad had.
- [51:26]
A
Picked it up and put it into the garage.
- [51:28]
B
And the umbrella was safe. And I was rocking her and she was crying and she was just beyond herself. And I said, you don't need to worry about anything. Like, let mommy do the worrying. And like, I, I've got this. Like, you do not have to hold on to worry. I've got this. And I was like, whoa, what an analogy for us as adults. Like, when we trust in God or source or the divine or the universe of, like, worrying is literally keeping us up at night. It is stealing your energy and it's not, not even necessary. The umbrella was in the garage, like, and it was just like a holy cow moment of like, your little body does not need to worry. Like, I've got this. And we also, as adults, we are also, we are held. Right? And it's like, man, wow, thank you for this little nugget. At midnight on the night before a busy day. And it's like, wow, isn't it just. It's fascinating. So, I don't know.
- [52:23]
C
So beautiful. And I just. I think I want to acknowledge that people might listen to this and think that it's easier said than done. Yes. And it is. But once you start trusting it and you gather that evidence of it working, it really can change your life. So that's what I would really encourage people to.
- [52:39]
B
Yes, absolutely. Okay, so before we wrap up, you on the last episode, we did, you did this visualization exercise that has changed so many people's lives. We were joking that my friend Mallory listens to it every single day.
- [52:53]
A
I'm like, thank you for the downloads.
- [52:55]
B
Mel, but you have a mini meditation on quieting the noise and just an exercise on how to kind of tune back into your head, your heart, and your gut. So can you walk us through this before we wrap up?
- [53:08]
C
Okay, so. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to do a short version of this exercise so that people can take their time to. To, you know, do a longer version when they listen to the podcast episode. So, of course, we usually start by making sure we're seated or lying down in a comfortable, comfortable position without our arms or legs crossed, and we close our eyes. And first thing to do is to just focus on your breath.
- [53:34]
D
Not try to change anything. Just notice how long you're breathing in for how long you're breathing out, whether.
- [53:42]
C
They'Re of the same length or not.
- [53:44]
D
Maybe which one's longer.
- [53:49]
C
And then to take three really big.
- [53:52]
D
Deep, energizing breaths just to clear the brain body system. So inhale 1. Exhale. Inhale.
- [54:06]
C
2.
- [54:08]
D
Breathe out. Breathe in. 3. And breathe out. Maybe releasing the last breath with a bit of a sigh.
- [54:24]
C
Now, I just want you to turn.
- [54:26]
D
Your attention outwards and focus on the loudest sound that you can hear around you and try to tune out any other noise apart from that one loudest sound. And now this may be the same or not. I'd like you to focus on the sound that is closest to you. And again, try to tune out anything other than that particular sound.
- [55:10]
C
Now, you may have to search around a little bit with your ears in.
- [55:13]
D
Your environment, but try to focus on the sound around you that is the quietest and see if you can focus on it so strongly that you hear nothing but that quietest sound. And finally, try to use your senses to locate the sound that is the furthest away from you or feels like it's the furthest away from you, and just focus on that for a little while. And then I want you to turn your attention inwards and notice that there is sound or noise all around you, whether it's close or far, loud or quiet, but there is always stillness within. And you can come to this place of stillness within at any time for a rest and a break from all the noise in life that is around us. Now, I'd like you to think of a dilemma that you have or a question that you have or something that.
- [56:55]
C
You'Re anxious or doubtful about.
- [56:59]
D
So I'll just give you a little while to think of what that might be. And then I'd like you to place.
- [57:10]
C
Your hands on your head.
- [57:14]
D
And take five breaths in and out, counting in your head from one to five. And when you are ready, ask the logical part of you for the answer to your question or dilemma or doubt. This answer should come to you quite quickly from your head and just try to remember what the answer was. And then move your hands down to your heart space and take another five deep breaths in and out to clear.
- [58:13]
C
Away your logical mind and get in touch.
- [58:21]
D
With your emotional self. And when you have completed the five deep breaths, I want you to ask the same question to your heart and to your emotions and wait for the answer to come. It may be the same or a similar answer, or it may be quite different. There's no right or wrong. Again, this should happen quite quickly. It doesn't matter if it doesn't. You can repeat this exercise at any time. And we're going to end it by moving our hands to our belly, keeping our eyes closed, and asking the question again for the last time to our intuition or gut instinct. So take the five deep breaths and ask the question for the last time and see what answer your intuition comes up with.
- [59:35]
C
And when you're ready, just shake out your hands and flutter your eyelids open. I'm curious to hear, did you get similar or different answers?
- [59:46]
B
I got similar, but like, from a different angle. Again, I'm so good at logic. And then I feel like with my heart and my gut, it's more feeling like, it's less thinking, more feeling like I feel like I've shifted so many of the questions of, like, what does success look like in your life? To, like, what does it feel like in your body, Right? And so it's like when I think of even just like, where do I want my business to go? Or what do I want this stage of life to look like? As the kids are in School, and I have more time. It's like, I could fill it. I could do this. And then it's like my heart and my. My gut is like, slow down and, like, rest and so, so good. You're so good. Where can everybody find you? Check out your new book. Connect with you. Give me all of the places.
- [60:37]
C
Thank you. So I'm most active on instagram, where I'm Dr. Tara Swartzo. Dr. And my name. And I've actually put links up to all the different places that people can pre order or order the book or the audiobook, because I want to be really fair to all the retailers, you know? And so from September 16, the book will be available in all bookshops in the UK and the US and all the places online that people regularly buy books. Thank you so much for having me.
- [61:04]
B
Thank you for coming back.
- [61:06]
C
Finish the book.
- [61:07]
B
It's so good. And I am just so grateful to have somebody like you in my life where, like, we get to keep growing and evolving and almost reintroducing ourselves, like, what a gift that is. So thank you for coming back on the show.
- [61:21]
C
Yeah, it's a really significant change for both of us, and it's making me very excited for the next one.
- [61:25]
B
I know, right? Let's wait and see. Thank you. Oh, that episode and that exercise, I just. I feel back in my body after a busy day, and I love the opportunity to be a part of and follow somebody's evolution. I feel like I have learned to. To welcome who I've been and who I'm becoming in so many different ways. I know that I have changed a lot, and maybe there are different versions of me that you've connected with, and maybe you've questioned what is going on in Jenna's life, But I feel like Dr. Tara literally outlined a lot of the things that I feel like I've come home to and I've learned in recent years. And hearing about her own transformation and journey and just how she. She's taking the nerdy neuroscience with it all is just absolutely beautiful. So I hope you love today's episode. If you haven't, go back and listen to her episode in 2021, especially if you love manifesting or you're curious, like, does manifestation really work inside that episode? She does this incredible visualization exercise that is so good. It's called the Portals Exercise at the end of that episode, and it is absolute gold. And thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you know somebody who would benefit.
- [62:44]
A
From it, of course, please send it their way.
- [62:45]
B
Let it be your gift to them.
- [62:48]
A
And thank you for being a part of this community and for tuning in.
- [62:50]
B
Until next time, Gold Diggers Keep on.
- [62:53]
A
Digging your biggest goals thanks for listening to the Gold Digger Podcast.
- [62:58]
B
I hope today left you inspired and.
- [63:00]
A
Equipped with something you can put into action as you build a business that truly, truly supports your life. If this episode resonated with you, here's how you can help this show reach even more entrepreneurs. Hit follow. Share it with a friend who's building something meaningful, and if you're feeling generous, leave us a review. Those reviews help other listeners discover these conversations when they need them the most. This show has become so much more than I ever imagined, and it's because of listeners like you who show up and share. You are helping build something that will inspire entrepreneurs for years to come. For show notes, links and resources, head to golddiggerpodcast. Com. Keep digging your biggest goals. The world needs what you're building.