The Goal Digger Podcast
Episode 919: The Permission to Burn It Down (And Start Over on Your Terms)
Host: Jenna Kutcher
Guest: Jen Hatmaker
Date: October 6, 2025

Episode Overview

Theme:
This episode centers on the courage to reinvent yourself and your business when your past version no longer aligns with your present self. Jenna Kutcher is joined by bestselling author and podcaster Jen Hatmaker, who discusses her own journey of midlife reinvention, self-trust, the evolution of personal brands, overcoming societal expectations about aging, and the process of letting go—both personally and professionally. The conversation is grounded in real, vulnerable storytelling and practical reflection, offering permission for listeners to pursue radical change on their own terms.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trusting Yourself to Change (02:01–08:27)

• Recognizing When It’s Time to Change:
  Jen describes how the inner knowing that a part of your life or business no longer serves you is a trustworthy signal. Even if certain things are still successful outwardly, it’s valid to honor the pull to pivot or let go.

  • Quote – Jen (07:11): “You know what you want, you know where you're at, you know which part of your business now feels out of alignment with your integrity. You know it. So trust yourself that you know what you know, that your wisdom is telling you something on purpose and that she can be trusted.”

• The Disruption and Difficulty:
  Acknowledging that following your intuition isn’t easy and often comes with risk and loss, but it’s not wrong to steer your business or life in a new direction.

2. Reclaiming Embodiment and Inner Authority (09:31–14:45)

• Learning to Listen to Yourself Again:
  Jen explains her upbringing in conservative religious culture and how young women, especially, are taught to distrust their own intuition and desires.

  • Quote – Jen (13:19): “I handed that [personal authority] to everybody else. You guys tell me what to do. You guys tell me what to believe. You tell me how to act and who I am. And so that is a very hard reversal.”

• Generational Shifts and Hope:
  Jen observes her daughters and their friends growing up with more body positivity and autonomy, offering hope that things are slowly changing.

3. Navigating Identity and Public Persona After Crisis (17:35–22:29)

• Separating Self from Brand During Upheaval:
  After personal crisis and divorce, Jen couldn’t immediately separate which parts of her public self to keep or discard; everything felt broken. The reflection from her community was key to rebuilding an authentic sense of self.

  • Quote – Jen (19:47): “When have I not been a wife? How am I not a wife anymore? … It was really hazy for me. And so it was interesting for my community to reflect back to me, hey, okay, you're not a wife anymore. Here's what we see in you still.”

• Letting Go of the Polished Persona:
  Jen shares how her latest book is the most unfiltered she’s ever been, embracing her flaws and honest experiences publicly.

4. Age, Relevance, and Reinvention in Public Spaces (27:06–31:31)

• Aging as Empowerment—not Irrelevance:
  Addressing societal fears about aging out of relevance, Jen argues that age brings greater wisdom, self-integrity, and leadership skills.

  • Quote – Jen (28:08): “We get better the older we get. We are smarter, we are wiser, we are better leaders, we are better partners, we are better builders.”

• Rejecting Scarcity and Competition:
  Jen encourages women to view younger generations as collaborators, not threats, and emphasizes the importance of intergenerational sharing and mutual support.

5. Authenticity, Vulnerability, and the Cost of Telling the Truth (32:44–39:44)

• Shifting Away from Prescriptive Storytelling:
  Jen’s new book, Awake, is written as a series of connected memories, trusting readers to draw their own meaning, rather than tying every story up in “life lesson” bows.

• Navigating the Cost of Honesty:
  She deliberated deeply over what to include, worried about harming relationships, but chose long-term integrity over short-term payoff.

  • Quote – Jen (38:10): “Will I be proud of this in five years?...I got down to the nitty gritty. Will I be proud of this sentence?”
  • The tension between being true to one’s story and protecting the dignity of people involved is always present.

6. The Wisdom of Waiting and Writing from Scars not Wounds (44:40–47:14)

• Importance of Reflection Over Reaction:
  Jenna and Jen discuss why it’s often unwise to share or publish when still in the thick of pain. With time comes greater clarity and compassion for all involved.
  • Quote – Jen (45:21): “Some of you guys are writing from a wound and it shows. Yes. That you just sacrifice your own, like, discernment. When you decide to write, still broken...”
  • They highlight how the internet encourages hot takes but real wisdom comes from thoughtful reflection.

7. Work Addiction and the High Cost of Overproducing (49:09–53:03)

• Distraction Through Work:
  Using work as a shield from pain is common and socially rewarded, but can lead to serious health issues—Jen details ending up in the ER after ignoring all warning signs.

  • Quote – Jen (50:27): “I was so out of control. So much had been done to me, unto me, without my consent. I need something under my thumb…so I could control work.”
  • Eventually, her body forced her to stop, leading her to create more boundaries and sustainable work habits.

• Letting Parts of the Hustle Die:
  Jen shares the paradox of a “smaller” but more expansive life, created by letting go of unsustainable ambition and realigning with what matters most.

8. Embracing the Next Chapter (53:08–55:12)

• Living in Alignment after Letting Go:
  The episode ends with Jen encouraging women to honor what needs to end, trust themselves, and pursue authentic alignment in their businesses and lives.
  • Book info: Awake is available everywhere books are sold, and at jenhatmaker.com.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Trusting Your Instincts:
  “You're not wrong about you. You're not wrong about your work, you're not wrong about your career. So put your chips on you and move in that direction.” – Jen Hatmaker (07:18)

• Outsourcing Authority:
  “I learned early on to outsource all authority. I had no personal authority in my own life. I was not trustworthy enough.” – Jen Hatmaker (13:19)

• On Aging:
  “We get better the older we get... That's a story that has been told to young women in order to keep them in line, in order to keep them small. But the truth is our best days are ahead of us.” – Jen Hatmaker (28:08)

• The Cost of Authenticity:
  “Will I be proud of this in five years? ... Because these are people. This is our actual life. This isn't just a book on a shelf...” – Jen Hatmaker (38:09)

• Overworking as Escape:
  “I have since made some changes. I've made changes in my work life. I've made changes in my availability. I've made changes in the scope of my work and parts of it that I no longer will do because I don't want to.” – Jen Hatmaker (52:57)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trusting Instincts & Starting Over: 02:01–08:27
• Losing Connection with Self & Relearning Embodiment: 09:31–14:45
• Sorting Out Identity After Crisis: 17:35–22:29
• Aging, Relevance, and Intergenerational Wisdom: 27:06–31:31
• Authenticity and the Risk of Telling the Truth: 32:44–39:44
• The Wisdom of Writing from Healing, Not Wounds: 44:40–47:14
• Overworking and the ER Wake-Up Call: 49:09–53:03
• Final Words & Resources: 53:08–55:12

Summary Takeaways

• Self-trust is the foundation for evolving your business, brand, or life when intuition nudges you forward—even if it disrupts what’s already “working.”
• Letting go of success that no longer fits is brave and necessary. Reinvention is not a failure, but a renaissance.
• Ownership of your own narrative and story is critical—outsource it to no one, and write or share when you can reflect wisely, not just react.
• The experience and wisdom gained with age are assets, not threats to your relevance.
• Authentic leadership and sustainable business come from alignment, not hustle. Let what’s untrue or unsustainable “burn down,” so something new and better can be built.

For resources and to connect, visit jenhatmaker.com and goaldiggerpodcast.com.

This episode is highly recommended for anyone experiencing change, burnout, or the nudge to step into a new chapter—whether in business or life.