923: The Lean-In Circle That Changed Everything (And How to Start Your Own)

Summary

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The Goal Digger Podcast

Episode 923: The Lean-In Circle That Changed Everything (And How to Start Your Own)

Release Date: October 20, 2025
Host: Jenna Kutcher
Guest: Bianca Gates, Founder & President of Birdies

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Overview

This episode delves into the profound impact that authentic community has had on entrepreneur Bianca Gates’ journey—from Facebook executive to founder of cult-favorite footwear brand Birdies. Bianca shares how her Lean-In Circle, a structured women’s group founded with inspiration from Sheryl Sandberg, became not only the backbone for her personal and business success but also a replicable blueprint for others. Jenna and Bianca discuss the myths and realities of “building community” as a founder, the mistakes many brands make, the necessity of vulnerability, and the practical steps to creating a support network that can catalyze any dream.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Misconception of Community in Business

Timestamp: 05:20 – 06:46

• Brands often see "building community" as a marketing strategy, rather than an authentic, grassroots process.
• Bianca emphasizes that true community grows “one person at a time,” organically, not through forced tactics.
  • Quote (Bianca Gates, 05:20): “That term ‘building community’... just feels like, what does that even mean? ...You can’t just go out and, like, build a community. It has to come authentically and grassroots, and people have to believe. It starts with one person at a time... and those people bring other people in.”

2. Rejecting Isolation and the “Stealth Mode” Trap

Timestamp: 07:26 – 08:34

• Many aspiring founders are overly secretive, waiting for a “perfect launch,” but this stifles helpful feedback and encouragement.
• Bianca openly asked (sometimes begged!) friends to support, collaborate, and provide honest input from the beginning.
  • Quote (Bianca Gates, 08:51): “I wouldn’t say it was, I invited them. I, like, begged them. It was not an invitation. It was like: here you go, you’re gonna help me out. Thursday night trunk show at your house.”

3. The Power and Structure of the Lean-In Circle

Timestamp: 09:52 – 21:46

• A pivotal part of Bianca’s success has been her monthly Lean-In Circle: an intimate, structured gathering of 6–10 local, ambitious women.
• Built on principles learned from Sheryl Sandberg, the Circle focuses on deep, confidential conversation—no surface-level small talk; only the real “top and bottom 5%” of life updates.
• The power comes from regularity, rules (miss more than 2 meetings, you’re out!), mutual support, and genuine vulnerability.
  • Quote (Bianca Gates, 18:48): “No more than 10 and no fewer than 6... This is not book club. This is not chit chat time. This is not male bashing... This is about, like, hey, we’re all feeling the same way. We’re all ambitious women. We all want to juggle family and careers. How do we do it?”
  • The Lean-In Circle became a beta group for Sandberg’s book Lean In, and has been instrumental to Bianca for over 13 years.

4. Community as the Foundation of Birdies

Timestamp: 26:30 – 31:06

• Birdies was born from Bianca’s passion for gathering people in her home and recognizing a small, unaddressed need—comfortable, stylish shoes for indoor entertaining.
• Her Lean-In Circle wasn’t just support—it was the first focus group, models for their first photos, and the source of early grassroots marketing.
  • Quote (Bianca Gates, 30:40): “...the idea of Birdies was anchored on community. We were solving a problem, you know, of what to wear on your feet during a moment of community. And so very much a part of our heritage is this idea of community.”

5. Authentic Storytelling and Customer Focus

Timestamp: 34:12 – 37:39

• Jenna and Bianca discuss “ideal avatars” vs. picturing a real human as your customer (“Jenny” at Old Navy, “Sarah” for Jenna).
• When brands market to a faceless mass, messaging flattens; connection grows when you speak to a single, known person.
  • Quote (Bianca Gates, 35:14): “They have a—not only a persona but she has a name... I was like, who is our Jenny? ...It was not a fake, fictitious person.”

6. Pivoting, Surrender, and Letting Customers Lead

Timestamp: 38:21 – 44:28

• Despite initial resistance, Bianca pivoted Birdies from house-only slippers to also serve as stylish outdoor shoes, listening to what customers actually wanted.
• She shares her struggle to surrender control but recounts how this flexibility led to rapid business growth and media features.
  • Quote (Bianca Gates, 44:28): “I am like a fail up story. The journey of Birdies is just like constantly failing and, like, picking wrong but pivoting and, you know, and just persistence, like, not giving up... I love that word you said: surrender. I have not used that in my vocabulary. Maybe I’m afraid of that word, but... that’s such a great word—surrender.”

7. The Long Game of Entrepreneurship

Timestamp: 47:27 – 51:16

• Success takes remarkable persistence and “delusional optimism.” Overnight success is a myth; community sustains founders during tough times.
  • Quote (Bianca Gates, 47:51): “It’s a marathon. It is a game of persistence and never giving up… a lot of people give up too soon. But I think, like, the most successful founders... never give up. They use it as a learning, it’s just another opportunity to grow from it...”
  • Money, flexibility, or fame are the wrong motivators; passion and a sense of purpose get you through.

8. Practical Guidance for Listeners

Throughout

• Start your own Lean-In Circle: keep it small and local, set rules and structure, prioritize calendaring in advance, and focus only on deep, real conversation.
• Community isn’t just for business growth—it’s necessary for emotional and professional sustenance.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On starting before you're ready:
  “Ideas are a dime a dozen. ...It doesn’t matter. ...How is my personal execution? That’s the difference.” (Bianca Gates, 07:26)
• On group structure and accountability:
  “If you’re more than five minutes late or... have to leave more than five minutes early, you are asked not to join. ...Everybody has a reason why they can’t make it. ...But if we play that game, we get nowhere.” (Bianca Gates, 22:00)
• On founder heartbreak and resilience:
  “...I’ve just been like, just embarrassed and like punched in the face where things just don’t work. ...But you go to your community... we all laugh and you know, it’s like you feel like a big hug and you’re like, okay, I got this, I can move on.” (Bianca Gates, 37:41)
• On entrepreneurship vs. employment:
  “If you’re chasing the money, ...this is not for you, because it’s gonna be long and hard... You’re way better off getting a job and working hard at a big company.” (Bianca Gates, 49:01)
• On founders’ mindsets:
  “You have to be delusional enough to think you’re going to be better than anyone else in the world that has done this, and also humble enough to be like, I'm punched in the face every day.” (Bianca Gates, 50:54)

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Actionable Takeaways

How to Start Your Own Lean-In Circle (Bianca’s Blueprint)

• Keep to 6–10 members; all local for in-person meetings.
• Meet monthly, same day/time each month (e.g., “third Thursday at 7 p.m.”).
• Set rules: no more than 2 absences per year; more than five minutes late/early counts as an absence.
• Structure: moderator and timekeeper; two-minute deep update each; only discuss “top or bottom 5%” of life.
• Not a social club, not a self-help group—focus on real challenges and wins.
• Make it easy (takeout food, wine, comfortable setting), and let conversations go deep.

Community-Driven Business Advice

• Talk about your business idea early and often—don’t wait for perfection.
• Involve your future customers, friends, and advocates from Day 1.
• Don’t fear pivots—listen to what your audience actually wants.
• Remember, community sustains you as much emotionally as it does strategically.

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Inspiring, Relatable Moments

• Jenna’s relatable share about women struggling to make time for real connection:
  “The men could just, like, figure out an entire weekend and a football game, and us women are like, I have ballet recitals, the kids have this… I was like, we need to adopt this male energy of, like, yeah, clear the calendar, we’re making this happen.” (15:38)
• Bianca’s story about her group’s unexpected product pivot:
  “I was so excited to solve this...slippery problem. Turns out, that was not really people’s problem.” (39:33)
• The honest founder confession:
  “I am like a fail up story. The journey of Birdies is just like constantly failing and...persisting.” (44:28)

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Connect with Bianca & Resources

• Connect with Bianca Gates: @BiancaGates on Instagram, LinkedIn
• Shop Birdies: birdies.com
• Learn about Lean-In Circles: leanin.org/circles
• Email for Lean-In structure resources (as mentioned in-episode)

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Final Reflection

Bianca Gates’ story is a testament to the transformative power of building community with intention, structure, and vulnerability. Whether starting a business or simply navigating life’s challenges, finding your “circle” and investing in real relationships can be the difference between floundering in isolation and thriving on your way to success.

“If we truly want and crave community...we have to make it as important as everything else in our lives.”
— Jenna Kutcher (54:49)

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For show notes, additional resources, and to join the Goal Digger movement, visit goaldiggerpodcast.com.

Transcript

[Jenna Kutcher]

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[Bianca Gates]

You know, leaning on your community to help you get there is the most important thing in my opinion for building a great company. Because you can't do it yourself. You might have one superpower, maybe one, maybe two, but you need a lot of people to help you get to where you want to go.

[Jenna Kutcher]

I'm Jenna Kutcher and I help you trade hustle for purpose and build a business that gives you the life you actually want to live. From a $300 Craigslist camera to a seven figure business I run from home. I'VE learned that success isn't just about what you do, it's about how you live. Here, you'll get strategies that work, systems.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

That give you your time back and.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Steps that turn your effort into results and impact. If you're ready for clarity, confidence, and a business that feel as good as it looks, you're in the right place. This is the Gold Digger podcast.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Have you ever bought something that you loved so much that you literally just had to tell your friends about it?

[Jenna Kutcher]

What if your entire business could be.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Built around that kind of energy where your customers don't just shop, they stick around, they support one another, and they become your brand's loudest cheerleaders? That's exactly what today's guest has done, and her story of getting there is a fascinating one. Bianca Gates is the founder and President of Birdies, the stylish yet comfy footwear brand that has built a cult like following, including everyone from Meghan Markle to your neighbor down the street. What started in Bianca's living room has grown into a brand loved by women everywhere. Not just because of the product, but because of the feeling it gives you. Connection, Confidence, community. Before Birdies, Bianca was a Facebook executive. She had no background in retail or footwear, yet that didn't stop her from raising capital, designing a product from scratch, and building an insanely loyal customer base while raising two kids with her husband. In this conversation, we are talking about the real story behind Birdie's growth, how Bianca built a community first brand from day one, the one meeting that she has every single month with women that are asking her to lean in, and how authentic storytelling shaped Birdie's success. I am so excited about how you can apply her approach to your own life and business, even if you're just starting from scratch or you feel like you are on an isolated island in entrepreneurship. This episode has left me so inspired to go out and create my own Lean in community in our city.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Literally.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

I am going to get this started. And so if you are someone who has ever wondered how can I rally around people and get them excited about my product or my business? How can I create a true movement and not just a moment, oh, this.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Episode is for you, Bianca Gates.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Welcome to the Gold Digger podcast. Bianca. Everyone tells entrepreneurs to build community, but honestly, I would say that most brand communities are ghost towns. Like ghost towns with tumbleweeds, right? You built one that has Meghan Markle and suburban moms equally obsessed. So I want to know what is your hot take on what are brands getting wrong about Community that you got right?

[Bianca Gates]

Well, I think, like, in this age, just, like, just table stakes is authenticity. And that term building community or have community, it, like, it just feels like, what does that even mean? Like, you can't just go out and, like, build a community. We're not, you know, we're not homes. We're not things. You don't build us. It has to come authentically and grassroots, and people have to believe. And it starts with one person at a time, and then, you know, two people and three people, and those people bring other people into the community. And it's a viral effect that happens authentically. I mean, I wish it were so easy to be like. And then, you know, on slide three of the PowerPoint, we're going to build community, and that's going to happen in this way and by this timeline, and then, boom, we have a brand. No. And, you know, my community started just by sheer desperation. It's all I had. I never spent a day in footwear or in retail. I was working at Facebook. I was a mom of two little kids. I had no business going into the footwear industry. And the only superpower I had was the people in front of me. My friends, hey, who do you know that can help me here? Can you host a trunk show? Can you help me with that? Can you do this? And then, like that. And then those people became so invested in this vision that I had that they started to bring others into this. And so this happened over years. You know, this. I've been going at this for almost 10 years now. So this idea of community, it's. It's a long road. It's not something that can be put together overnight.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yeah. One thing I am obsessed about your story is that you made a joke. I was listening to an interview you did, and you were talking about how when you were starting Birdies, you're like, I couldn't shut up about it. Like, you don't understand when people are holding their ideas and their dreams so close to their chest and, like, waiting for this, like, grand reveal that's, like, perfect for the world and hoping the world receives it, and you're like, I just don't get it. Let's talk about that. Because I think that so many women right now listening to this show are working in isolation, holding their dreams so close to their chest, worried that somebody's going to copy them or rip them off or judge them. Let's talk about it.

[Bianca Gates]

I mean, I sit in the heart of Silicon Valley, right? This is where, like, the startups Begin. And so many times I hear people say, like, I'm starting something, but I'm in stealth mode. Yeah, right. I'm like. Like, what does that even mean? I mean, like, ideas are a dime a dozen. I mean, it doesn't matter. You can tell me any idea. I would have no idea how to execute it or let alone how you are going to execute on this idea. Right? Like, if you do it alone, like, you're just not going to get anywhere. It is just. It's the wrong mentality. And this idea that somebody's going to steal your idea. I mean, my idea was to make, like, slipper shoes. Like, you know, shoes have existed since the beginning of time. You know, it's just like. But it's like, what is my personal take on it? How is my personal execution? That's the difference. And, you know, leaning on your community to help you get there is the most important thing, in my opinion, for building a great company, because you can't do it yourself. You might have one superpower, maybe one, maybe two, but you need a lot of people to help you get to where you want to go. So I don't believe in stealth. I don't believe in, you know, the idea is everything. I believe in execution is everything. And the execution starts with the people you surround yourself with.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

I mean, don't you think. Bianca, when I. When I think about these first two questions of, like, community and ignoring this idea of stealth mode, I think that is a part of the secret sauce is like, you invited people into the fold when it was just an idea before it was even an idea that you wanted to sell.

[Bianca Gates]

I wouldn't say it was. I invited them. I, like, begged them. I was. I was like, please do me this solid. Do me a favor. It was not an invitation. It was like, here you go, you're gonna help me out. Thursday night trunk show at your house.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

But I think that so many entrepreneurs these days are literally, like, isolating themselves to themselves in a laptop, in a dream, and we've missed that piece of the pie of, like, I feel like when you built Birdies, you didn't build just a brand. People were a part of every iteration of the process, right?

[Bianca Gates]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Like, they were whether they wanted to be or not. If they knew beyond, you are a part of this. And I feel like that is a part of the secret sauce of, like, we say we want community, yet we are dedicated to building businesses in isolation from corners of our home without even being able to whisper what the idea is. And it's like, maybe that is the secret sauce.

[Bianca Gates]

It's even beyond building a company. I think it's the secret of life. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you why. When I first started my career, my parents are immigrants here. My mom was a stay at home mom. Like, there was not a lot of modeling on. Like, you know, being a female in the business world, I had to figure it out. And doing it alone was very hard and complicated. I made a lot of mistakes. At one point in my marriage, early on I saw my husband, I was home with a newborn. He would meet up with a colleague for, you know, beer after work before coming home. And it would send me off to the stratosphere. I was so annoyed and angry. I'm like, you need to come home. You need to stop buying your diapers. Like, what are you doing having a beer? And he says to me, when I, he's like, like, why don't you go have a glass of wine with somebody and like, you know, before you come home, like, how. Are you kidding me? How could I possibly. Like, where are your priorities? And then to kind of like prove it to him and like, prove a point and show him. I did. And I was like, oh my God. This was transformative. Like that one glass of wine for 45 minutes after work. In between then and coming home, I got to talk about outside of work and outside of home, like, other things. Hey, I'm thinking about, you know, making a career move. Hey, I'm thinking, asking for a promotion. Like, what do you, how do you think I should go about it? Those are things that you're not really talking about either at home or at work. And, and like it was that white space. That community was able to help me catapult my career and also understand how to manage a household as well as work, you know, and other projects. And so fast forward, I had my second child. I was at Facebook, I was commuting three hours a day, which, you know, back in the day, that's what you do, go to work every day, five days a week and, and starting birdies and, and I remember thinking like, I need help. I need to know how are people balancing this? Because with two kids, you know, I'd get a lot of questions like, oh, are you going back to work? You know, like, who's going to take care of your children? I would never leave my child with a stranger. And so I just realized I needed to form a community of like minded women very quickly that I could surround myself with that my decisions were going to be safe within this group. And like anybody else that did not agree with it, it was fine. They're not part of my community. And we started forming these, like, Lean In Circles now we call them. And with, you know, Sheryl Sandberg many years ago, in fact, I just hosted my Lean In Circle last night here at my house. Thirteen years later, every month we meet. And that has made the biggest difference with birdies, obviously. But even just taking risks professionally, even understanding where my guardrails are as a mom, as a partner, as a friend. And I can't tell you how many women I meet who don't have that type of deep network. You know, they have a lot of friends, surface level friends. How's the weather? Where'd you go on vacation? How's the home renovation going? But nothing deeper. And we're missing a lot in life as. As women in particular, without having that glass of wine, you know, after work or in. Before going home or forming these deep relationships where you can really help people in meaningful ways. And I think, if anything, I want, you know, your audience to. To know that whether they're starting a company or. Or anything in life, yeah, it's really hard to do it alone. It's almost impossible. And it's so much more fun to do it when you have found your people.

[Jenna Kutcher]

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[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

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[Jenna Kutcher]

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[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

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[Jenna Kutcher]

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[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

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[Jenna Kutcher]

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[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

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[Jenna Kutcher]

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[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Oh, my gosh. I. Bianca, literally last night, my husband and I, we were playing cribbage, which tells you that we're like 80 year old people. It's like, I don't even know what that is. It's like a finish card game that I learned with my grandpa. And so we're playing cribbage after the kids are up to bed, and my husband's like, yeah, so I'm gonna go to a Packers game with my friend's husbands. Okay. And I was like, oh, well, I've been trying to get together with my friends for, like, a year. I'm so glad that the men could just, like, figure out an entire weekend in a football game. And us women are like, I have ballet recitals. The kids have this.

[Bianca Gates]

How could I possibly.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

And I was like, we need to adopt this male energy of, like, yeah, clear the calendar. We're making this happen. And it was just this, like, funny, like, juxtaposition in real life being played out of like, oh, my God, you guys have been texting for three days and you've already bought tickets, a hotel room, and you're ready to go. And us women have been trying to coordinate for a year, and we haven't made it happen. And it is. It's so pure. I have this friend group in our city, five women, and we're all moms, and we volunteer at the soup kitchen. And that is, like, our time to connect. And so we're like, chopping vegetables sometimes with a little bit more than others.

[Bianca Gates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

And I'm like, man, like, the conversations and the depth of them make you feel so less crazy, make you feel so less alone. I cannot agree more. So I love this. Can you tell me, like, just give us the 30,000 foot view of, like, the Lean in circle? Because I actually think that if more women adopt this, like, the world will change.

[Bianca Gates]

So I'll tell you where this came from because I do have to give a shout out to Sheryl Sandberg, who very quickly, when I started at Facebook, became my mentor by total accident. You know, this is not like you look for a mentor and it's like, you know, you can't build community. You can't just like, assign a mentee. It just naturally happened. Yeah. And when I was at Facebook, she started inviting me to her home for these dinner parties that she would put together. It was these, like, women I'd only read about in Silicon Valley who were, like, running big tech businesses or any type of business or entrepreneurs. And so once a month she'd host these dinner parties at her house. And it was driving real deep conversation and debate. Right? Like, debate anything. Like, obviously be respectful, but let's hear the other side or let's understand the why behind, you know, what we're reading. And. And I was fascinated. Like, one, I'm like, I can't believe I'm here. This is, like, tremendous. I was just a fly on a wall. But two, I was like, how now do I pay this forward to, like, others who are craving something like this? And so in 2012, I had just given birth to my second child and I was on maternity leave and I was talking to Cheryl and I'm like, hey, I think, like, I'm getting all sorts of questions about, are you going back to work? You know, what are you doing? I had some of my, you know, professional friends were starting to drop out of the workforce to care for their children, and I was confused as to what right decision was. And I knew I had this professional fire in me. So staying at home full time wasn't my calling. But at the same time, I felt really conflicted. Like, maybe I just, I, you know, I just needed to reprioritize my life. And so I said, I want to start this, like, you know, circle, this community that meets at my house monthly, like yours, but with my peers. And she was like, oh, my God, I am coming out with a book in five months called Lean in with a call to action for women to form these circles. I have the setup and the structure for how sticky this could be. I don't have a group to beta test it. Can we beta test it with your group? And I was like, of course. So we met in January of 2013 was our first meeting. And that group is still, they were here last night. We have stuck to how many people are we talking?

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Are we talking like Domino's food delivery or you are like making a meal? What are we, what are we getting at?

[Bianca Gates]

This is no more than 10 and no fewer than six. So it is, it is. There is structure to this. When I was starting it, we lost a few people because I was very clear on what this was. This is not book club. This is not chit chat time. This is not male bashing. This is not victimization of like, well, we can't because of, you know, this isn't about politics. This is about like, hey, we're all feeling the same way. We're all ambitious women. We all want to juggle family and careers. How do we do it? Like, let's talk. Let's take a page out of the guys playbook. Let's have a glass of one talk. So we meet at my house from 7 to 9pm People stop, you know, come over like 6:30. It's, it's nine of us. I order food and we have a moderator, we have a timekeeper and wow. The idea is that you only talk about the top and bottom 5%, nothing in between. So you have two minute round table to give an update of the last month. And I'm talking deep.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yeah.

[Bianca Gates]

And if six of the women are going deep and two or three are not, like you call them out. Right. Like this is not, you know, just surface level conversation. And it was really impactful. And also people were concerned, I would say the first year after the feedback was. After the first year I just said give me one year. The feedback after the first year was they were not sure if they were going to recommit because it was really, it was really hard for people to dig deep and to share and make sure that this was going to be confidential. It's now been 13 years and to see the evolution of where we've gone, you know, some have really leaned in more professionally. Some have decided this is, you know, this, I need to take a break or I want to take a step back or I want to do something else. And one of the most fascinating things I've seen is that at any point in time somebody in our group is like peaking. Right. Like I'm launching a company, I just got a fundraise, I just sold my company. And at other times you're totally in like the valley of death. You're like, oh my God, am I going to survive. Oh my God, this is the worst thing ever. Oh my God. My. You know, I have somebody in my family who's very sick. And what it teaches you is that like nothing is forever. You know, in terms of the feelings, it generally like, won't kill you. Even the worst feeling you're feeling won't kill you. But talking about it with a group that has, has sort of carried you with them over the last few years makes it so much easier to share. Like, you would never just say at drop off, like, oh my God, crushing it. I just got, you know, I just sold my company, I'm rich. You know, like, you would never also never say the opposite, which is like, oh my God, I'm really struggling today. That would feel. So we become more insular and isolated and as we get older, it becomes worse. So identifying like minded individuals. And I always say we meet in person. It has to be within a few mile radius of your home. Because if you're zooming in from somebody across the country, it already feels like you don't. Like, you're just not disconnected. And I'm weird. And truth be told, like, when I first started this, I had so many women reaching out saying, I want to join your Lean in circle. And I said, I'm capped out at 10.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yep.

[Bianca Gates]

But I'll help you start your own circle. Email me with the other nine women and I'll come to your house and I'll launch this. And I did this for about like 15 circles here in the Bay Area.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yeah.

[Bianca Gates]

With the exception of one group, everybody responded saying, but I don't have nine other women. Can you help me? I was like, wow, that's fascinating. How is that possible? These are professional women. How do you not have nine women you would start this with? So I started to keep tabs on like zip codes. And when I would get 10 women in a certain zip code, I'd put them together. And what we found is that like, some of them live like two blocks from each other, three blocks from each other, across the street in the same building. And how often we were just living our lives in parallel and never intersecting. And meanwhile everybody was so close by craving the same thing. And so now it's been 13 years. I think over 180 countries have now implemented Lean in circles. Over a hundred and, I don't know, a hundred thousand circles. One hundred thousand. Like it's just become massive and yet we've barely scratched the surface. And like, my call in life is for women to create their own network of circles. And be very structured so that it's sticky and keep people accountable. And by the way, you can only miss two meetings a year or you're kicked out. And if you're more than five minutes late or you have to leave more than five minutes early, you are asked not to join. And that is your absence. Because everybody has a reason why they can't make it. Everybody's busy, everybody's asking. But if we play that game, we get nowhere. And you have to prioritize this or it's just not for you. And that's okay. Yeah. It doesn't have to be for you.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

I frigging love this. I did this post the other day. I'm, like, the worst at, Like, I get this idea and I just, like, put it out there. I think that's, like, the entrepreneurial spirit, right?

[Bianca Gates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

And I'm like, oh, my gosh. So we live in small town Minnesota, and I, like, put out, Like, I have been dreaming of just, like, gathering people and entrepreneurs who are in this community. Because I'm like, if we want to change where we live, I truly believe that women entrepreneurs are the people that are going to do it. Like, we are the vessels that can get the money in and put the money back into our community. Like, see the bigger picture. And it was so funny because I put it out there. Then all these people were like, I'd fly in from Scotland. I'm in Tampa, Florida. I'm like, Minnesota. Like, I want.

[Bianca Gates]

Right.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

218 area code. I want you in this community.

[Bianca Gates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

But what was interesting is, like, even just throwing this idea out there where I was like, I will literally order Domino's pizzas, so do not expect anything fancy. But everyone is like, I've been thinking of this too. And I think there is a movement of people who are recognizing, like, they're lifting their eyes from the mountaintop of success, whatever that looks like for them. And they're like. Like, there's nobody with me. Right?

[Bianca Gates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

And I'm alone. Or this doesn't feel how I thought it was because I have no one to share this with, whether it's good or the bad. So I freaking love that.

[Bianca Gates]

And I love.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

I'm like, a systems girly. Like, I want to, like, take an operating system and put it into my life. Right. Like, on Mondays, we instacart our groceries on Tuesdays. And so I love that there's, like, an actual framework to it. So everybody that's listening, start a circle. Don't email Bianca with your zip code. She's got enough on her plate.

[Bianca Gates]

Just, like, look outside your door. Like, you'll find these people. And I, we just order takeout. We had Thai food, and we would put on the calendar year in advance every third Thursday of the month at dinner at my house. That was it. It was just easy scheduling and standing. It's. It's like, fairly low lift and easy. We have a lot of wine. You know, takeout. Like, it doesn't have to be anything formal and just deep conversation. It just. It's like, also, like, when you're talking about your husband, who he created this, like, weekend with his buddies so quickly, like, the resentment that could come out of that as a wife, right? And it's like, instead, you're like, I'm not going to be resentful. I'm actually going to do this myself. What a great idea, honey.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yes. Right.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Thank you.

[Bianca Gates]

It's very supportive. I'm sure he's right.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Great.

[Bianca Gates]

I've been telling you along Jenna, like, of course you should do this.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yes. And that's it. I was like, I'm not mad. I'm inspired. Like, I'm not mad. I'm like, give me that energy.

[Bianca Gates]

Don't take away from him. Just add to add your own weekend. I love it.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

It. That's right. Okay, so one of the things that I am so curious about is that most founders, like, when we think about this idea of community, right? And we think about building something. Because here's the thing. In the age of AI, especially with, like, digital businesses and stuff, I think that the thing that AI will never be able to do is create community, right? Like, truly help people move towards the life they want, whether it's through product, whether it's through service and offer, whatever that is. And so when we think about, like, well, okay, if you have been isolated, if you have been siloed, like, where do we start? And I. I would say that some people would say this whole, like, community idea is outdated. I think that people want to have something to connect with. How have you done this through shoes? Like, walk us through it. Because I can see how easy it could be to build a community of, say, entrepreneurs.

[Jenna Kutcher]

How have you done this with a product?

[Bianca Gates]

You know, it sounds so, like, thoughtful when you say it and so eloquently as you just did. It was, you know, it. I think shoes were just, like, the byproduct of what I was seeing as I was building community. So the idea behind Birdies was very simple. I'd love to host people at my home, you know, Men and women, but particularly with these circles that started in 2013 and two years into it, it was one of these funny things where I would ask people to kindly take off their shoes, you know, and it was not so much because the shoes were dress dirty, although, like, it does seem kind of weird to have dirty shoes outside. Meant for the outside inside. But it was more like, hey, stay a while. Like, kick up your feet. Like, if you have your, like, you know, heels on or your boots on, you're kind of like, you know, one foot out the door sort of thing. I was like, stay a while. Have a glass of wine. Take off your shoes. But I would see people would be uncomfortable, you know, like, they'd have a hole in their sock or they didn't have a pedicure, or it just. It kind of felt intimidating or just awkward. And in 2015, like, two years after doing this, I had this, like, aha moment where I was like, you know, we have our slippers for the bedroom and bathroom for the moment where, you know, the day is done. You have your jammies on, your hair's in a bun, you're washing your face, and you've got your snuggly slippers, but you would never entertain in them or go outside of the house in them. And then you have your shoes that you throw on as you're going outside. But there was nothing for the yummiest place in the world, which is the living space, the living room, dining room, kitchen. That's where the magic happens. That's where community happens. That's where food and conversation and guests and laughing and crying and hugging. That's where it all happens. How do we not have shoes for this space? Dedicated for this space? And so that's where the idea came in. And certainly I did not think I would be the one to solve the problem, nor did I frankly, want to solve the problem. I just wanted to go into, you know, Nordstrom and just buy the shoes and go on in my, you know, be done, continue building at Facebook. That was a great life. And so my husband in 2015, he's just like, you know, I've been hearing you have this problem for a long time. You haven't found a solution. Why don't you just solve it? And I thought, this is. He's crazy. I have this, like, big job. You know, I have two kids. I don't know how to make shoes. You know, I googled how to make shoes. Like, that was not helpful, but it was like I couldn't shake it. I was Like, God, this is just such a. A thing. And I remember watching this, like, Mr. Rogers, you know, like, on Instagram, you know, where he, like, walk in and take off his outdoor jacket and put on his indoor coat and. And take off his outdoor shoes and put on his indoor loafers. I'm like, see, he's not walking around barefoot. He has shoes on. He's still maintaining the integrity of his outfit. It's, you know, he's not ready for bed at this point. So I was like, I want that. And. But in order to do that, because I had no background in it, I rallied my Lena in circle. In fact, the first picture we ever posted, I think, was of my lean in circle all wearing the shoes together in a circle. And this idea of community, you know, the idea of Birdies was anchored on community. We were solving a problem, you know, of what to wear on your feet during a moment of community. And so very much a part of our heritage is this idea of community. Like, how do we make it better? How do we. How do we enjoy this moment even more? It just kind of took off. And at one point, you know, a year later, we were like, if we were to gift our shoes a pair of one of our shoes, we had 1800 units, and we wanted to sell every one of them because we needed the money to reinvest in the company. What would be the one celebrity that we would send it that really embodies this idea of community? And, you know, you go to, like, the stratosphere of, like, celebrities. Gosh, if this person wear is it, you know, it'd be great. But nobody really had that, like, you know, like, there wasn't a celebrity where I was like, yeah, I bet if I go over her house, she'd make me, like, a bowl of Mac and cheese and a big glass of red wine. Like, like, I would. I would be hungry leaving their house. So it's like, who embodies this idea of community and tables and cooking and the yumminess? And then I. I came across Meghan Markle. She had the tag on Instagram, and. And she, you know, was on her show suits. And I just was. I just remember, like, she wasn't, you know, like the biggest celebrity in the world back then, but she really embodied everything that was Birdie, which is like, I bet you she would serve me, you know, something delicious to eat, and she had this, like, big green egg grill in her yard, and she would, like, like, barbecue. I was like, this is my girl.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yes.

[Bianca Gates]

And so we decided to ship her A pair and you know, the rest is history. But the idea is that we were always authentic. Like who is that girl that's going to eat at the table? And also if she's hosting a dinner party and you come in with three more people that she did not expect, yes, somehow she has enough to feed them and three extra chairs miraculously arrive, you know, so community has always been in our DNA from the very, very, very beginning.

[Jenna Kutcher]

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[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

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[Jenna Kutcher]

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[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

And just think about it.

[Jenna Kutcher]

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[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

I love that, and I love that story. And I think a lot of times, what's interesting to me about this, Bianca, is a lot of times when people are starting a business, there's this whole exercise you're supposed to do, right, with your ideal client avatar. And to me, like, even the word avatar, I just picture the blue guy from, like, yeah, like, it just doesn't resonate. And I'm always, like, I've had to always create picturing an actual human, like, who is my friend who actually needs this thing, and how would I speak to her? And I think that when we go so, like, like, oh, it's this, you know, woman who is this age and lives here and does this, it's like, it doesn't connect. Like, now, even the other day, I was writing an email for my whole email list, list, hundreds of thousands of people. And I'm like, I am writing to one person. I'm writing to my friend Sarah right now. Right? And, yes, I feel like that's where brands and people are getting this so wrong, is that it's this elusive idea of a person versus a real human, real person. You nailed it.

[Bianca Gates]

I learned that by accident. I was at Facebook, and I was. I was working with retailers on the west coast. And, you know, as a salesperson, the best way to sell is to understand their problems and then come with a solution. So I sat in an Old Navy meeting here in San Francisco, and the CMO at the time was Talking about, you know, their growth opportunity and their target person. And her name is Jenny. I was like, wow, she hasn't. She's. They're not talking about millions of people. Jenny. Jenny is getting older. How do we talk to next gen? J E N. And I was like, this is fascinating. They have a. Not only a Persona, but she has a name. She has a number of kids. You know, here's her age, here's what she. She's busy. She's a working mom. When she shops, she wants to shop for the whole family. She wants it to be fun. She wants it to be, you know, cost effective. And that's when I came home that night. I was like, who is our Jenny? Yeah. And that is to your point. Exactly. It was not a fake, fictitious person. It was like, down to, what does she have for breakfast? What car does she drive? What is she doing all day? And then if that were a celebrity that we could all identify with, who would it be? And that's how we ultimately got to Megan. And even still to this day, you know, love her hater. You know, she. She still very much, to me exudes that, like, that warmth and sense of community and, you know, and food, which is so much a part of life.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

I. Okay, I love this so much. And I think, too, to your point, it's like if you are trying to figure out what this elusive person eats for breakfast, if you have one person in mind, it is so much easier to do that entire exercise. Right. Like, it's. Yeah, it's like people are throwing spaghetti at the wall and trying to serve everyone. And your communication and your branding and your marketing gets so much clearer when you speak to one person. And I think that you guys just nailed it. One thing that I think is so beautiful about your story and just the brand of Birdies is, you know, the origin of gathering and community. And it's like, almost like sell people what they think they want, which is shoes, but give them what they actually need. Right. Like, your through line is. Is so much bigger than the product itself.

[Bianca Gates]

Yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

And whether people just want an epic, you know, pair of shoes. Great. That's awesome. But, like, the mission in the brand and the vision is so much bigger than that. And I. I just. I don't know. I love that. And I loved when I heard your origin story. And, like, starting with Marissa and all these different things, it's like, oh, every piece of this has been you bringing people.

[Bianca Gates]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Fold.

[Bianca Gates]

Oh, yeah. I mean, and let's talk about the number of times I'VE just been like, just embarrassed and like punched in the face where things just don't work. And you're just like, that sucks. And but you go to your community and you're like, you guys are not going to believe this. This is like, how, what a terrible day I'm having. And like, we all laugh and you know, it's like you feel like a big hug and you're like, okay, I got this, I can move on.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yeah. Okay. So I want to ask you kind of a fun question, but let's say someone gave you a thousand dollars and 30 days and they said, I need you to build a community around a brand new product. Like, I want to make like a movement. I don't just want to have something to sell. I want like people behind it. No existing audience. Like, let's remove all of the factors. No connections, no advantages.

[Jenna Kutcher]

What would you do?

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Like, how would you break this down? I would.

[Bianca Gates]

Well, first off, I would just keep the thousand dollars, get my nails done and have like a really nice meal. Because I don't think you need money to solve that problem. I think you need a lot of creativity and a lot of discipline and, and just a lot of just like talking to people. To your point, you know, we're all craving human connection. And so you have to humanize the problem and the solution down to who is that one person? Oftentimes, you know, people are trying to boil the ocean. It's never going to work. It's not going to be for everybody. And now eventually it can be, but you got to start off specific, specific, you know, to this one problem. And then we can keep iterating and grow and whatever. But I would say, you know, kind of like what we did, like, who is the one person that this, this is going to solve their problem and how is it going to solve the problem? And once you've identified that, go ask that person, does this solve your problem? And you know, for birdies, the interesting thing is I was so excited to solve this like slippery problem. Turns out that was not really people's problem. Like, they were okay with just walking around in socks and barefoot. Like, much to my dismay. It's very hard to change people's behavior. But what happened was they loved the shoes because they were playful and comfortable, that they started wearing them outside as shoes.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yeah. Did that mortify you? Like, when I know the origin story, I'm like, wait, what did Bianca do the first time she saw somebody wearing these out in public?

[Bianca Gates]

So I would, I mean, it was mostly my friends in the beginning. And I would just be very disappointed. I was like, you know, these are intended to be at home because I didn't think we were ever going to win in the shoe market. And I didn't care about shoes. Like, I was not trying to solve a shoe problem. There's plenty of shoes. If half the shoe companies go away tomorrow, we would not be missing shoe companies, right? Like, it. Like, I didn't care about that. I cared about the home. So I saw my friends, like, at airports and, like, around the street. I was like, this is annoying. And then, you know, Meghan Markle, she had a big following on the Tig, but every time she was photographed, either by paparazzi or herself, it was always outside of the home. And I was like, oh, man, people are going to start buying these as comfortable shoes. And. And then in 2016, I remember, like, our return rate was like, sky high. I was like, this is a problem. And so we hired an intern that summer. And I said, your job is to email all of our thousands of customers and ask them, how are you wearing your birdies? And at the end of the summer, she presented to Marissa and myself, and she said, listen, turns out over 75% of our customers are wearing them everywhere, not just at home. And so, you know, genius me, I'm like, well, there's the problem. We need a marketing campaign to educate them to wear them at home. And she was like, 19 at the time. And she's like, or we could pivot, make them, you know, a little bit better for the outdoor elements and make them the most deliciously comfortable shoe they've ever worn. And I was like, huh? And it really kind of took me back, and it did take me a while. We were Birdyslippers.com for many years. And I was like, wait, are we really not going to be a slipper company? Are we really moving outside? But this is, you know, there's. It's a very fine line between staying true to the initial problem you were solving and pivoting to where the customer is taking the product. And ultimately, after much deliberation, we just decided, okay, we just, we should re engineer the shoe to make the outsole a little bit thicker, but everything else the same and see what happens. And sure enough, like, the business exploded. They were durable. Returns rate, you know, came crashing down. It was fine. And then I had to hunt for who owned the domain. Birdies.com because we were birdieslippers.com and that took me like two years to find the owner. And Negotiate. And that was at that moment in 2018. We were like, all right, from now on, we are entering into the footwear space without any experience and kind of frankly, like, that was not the roadmap. And here we go. And it's. And it's just been, you know, an insane journey. And by the way, like, during the same time, Meghan Markle announces that she's engaged to Prince Harry on Cyber Monday. And the whole global press goes crazy that, you know, Birdie, her favorite shoe brand, was a slipper fit for a princess. And that was. The timing of it all was, like, so amazing. I was just like, okay, here we go. We are going to be the yummiest, most delicious, most fabulous shoe for the home. And everywhere she goes is what we.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Like to say, you know, what a beautiful lesson in surrender as a founder. Right?

[Bianca Gates]

That's so true.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Because I feel like you definitely hit a crossroads of like, I am going to dig myself my stinking feet in and I'm going to tell you what these shoes are for and I'm going to like, recommit to that journey or I'm going to let you guide me and how you want this to go. And I feel like many founders have found themselves in places where, like, your product kind of takes on a life of its own. Right? Like, it's not. It's like that combined energy. It is a collaborative experience. Like, it is truly. And so, so what a fascinating thing. Because you know what's so funny, Bianca, is like, I am a customer of Birdies. I have never once thought of, like, I will only wear these in my home ever.

[Bianca Gates]

Which is.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

And I have been a customer for years. Like, I'm talking years. And so what's so interesting is, is like the product now stands on its own regardless of the mission that started it. Right? And I think every founder, no matter what you've created, at some point, you've either had to tune in and listen to what people are tell you or dig your heels.

[Bianca Gates]

Right?

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

And there is no right or wrong.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Right.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

They both can have beautiful outcomes, but that is like the fork in the road oftentimes where you see like, oh, if I would have maybe chosen it this way, it could have gone differently.

[Bianca Gates]

Yeah, 100%. I am like a fail up story. Like, the journey of Birdies is just like constantly failing and like picking wrong but pivoting and, you know, and just persistence, like, not giving up, but like this, you know, the idea of like, how'd you build community? And this like, slipper shoe and then A shoe like that was not by design. That was purely out of desperation and like the need to pivot and you know, all those things. And I love that word you said, surrender. I have not used that in my vocabulary. Maybe I'm afraid of that word but I, I don't know, I haven't used it. When I heard you say that I was like, God, that's such a great word, surrender.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Whenever I think about my business and I feel like my journey into motherhood was like just this massive, like you've just gotta freakin surrender. Which is, is most of us entrepreneurs are control freaks, right?

[Bianca Gates]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

And I now picture like my hands are like I've loosened the grip, I've just loosened the grip on my expectations. I've loosened the grip on the way things have to go. I've loosened the grip on expectations like and so it's just, it's interesting because I think that that is like a hard fought lesson for so many of us where it's almost like we go into entrepreneurship as this like desire to have control. Maybe there's other aspects, lives out of control. Like entrepreneurship is the biggest lesson in surrender that we might ever 100%.

[Bianca Gates]

It's so true.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

It's so true.

[Bianca Gates]

I don't know, I think like knowing what I know now, would I do this again? I don't know. I mean how. It's a crazy journey. It's.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yeah.

[Bianca Gates]

And you know, I think one of the hardest things for me building this and my husband I used to talk about a lot, he's like, your job as a founder is you're going to get a lot of, of feedback from customers, from investors, from your friends. Like, oh, have you thought of this? Have you thought of that? Have you thought of that? And one, you're like, yes, I've thought of it all. Like I am up all night. I'm like a lunatic. Yes, I've thought of that. But he's like, your job is, you know, to listen to it all and then you have to pick which, you know, feedback you take and what you don't. And that's really hard to do.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yes.

[Bianca Gates]

You know, because they're all good ideas. And also how do you ruthlessly prioritize? Like you want to do it all but you only have so much time and so much money and so how do you ruthlessly prioritize how you stack rank them and, and I think just being disciplined and also, you know, have this ability to surrender. Like they're two opposing things and yet they have to coexist for. For anybody to be successful.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yeah, I think, too, you know, to your point, it's almost like you have to have a filter, right? Of, like, what am I letting in?

[Jenna Kutcher]

Even in ideas.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

I recently had to send a voice message to this person who's, like, brilliant. Love him. And he was doing this, like, mastermind and all these things. And I said, you know, I love you, and I love this idea, but here's where the problem is. The problem is me. And I can so easily take on other people's energy and excitement around ideas that are not mine and are not mine to pursue. And if I say yes to this thing, I'm literally going to put myself in a cesspool of ideas and energy that is not mine. And I'm not in the season to accept them or adopt them. And so it was funny because I, like, turned it down. He's like, oh, my God, you're so like me. Like, I am the same thing. And I think that it's like, when we start to. To turn the filter on and be like, wow, that is a great idea. Not my idea, but great. Or like, yeah, this feedback is constructive. Like, how do I move with this? I think that's, like, where. Where you have to, like, do the reps. You just literally, there's no way to build the filter but by putting in the reps.

[Bianca Gates]

Totally. There's no way out but through. I tell that to my kids all the time. Like, it just. Yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yeah. So one thing I want to know is, like, oftentimes in entrepreneurship, people will, you know, look at things and be like, this is an overnight success. You are a decade. A decade into this journey. What is something that you wish people knew about? The long run? Like, the long game of entrepreneurship? Not the flash in the pan, not the overnight anything. Like, what do you wish people knew about it?

[Bianca Gates]

It's a long journey. It's a marathon. It is a game of persistence and never giving up. And you could have the best idea. And, you know, and sometimes I would say, like, even the best ideas are even the hardest because everyone's coming after you. Everyone's gonna try to, like, steal your idea or cut you down or, you know, just come after you in any way. You're more visible. If it's a great idea, there's no easy way. I mean, if. If it's. It's just hard no matter how great or how big or small the idea is. But I. I think a lot of people give up too soon, and that's okay. But I think, like, the most successful founders that I've spoken with, they've been hit with the worst of the worst moments in. In that journey, and they never give up. They use it as a learning. It's just another opportunity to grow from it, that positive attitude. And the other thing is, you know, I hear a lot of young founders who, you know, a couple of things are like, one, I want to start a company because I want more control over my schedule. And I'm just like, oh, my God, like, that's not gonna happen. Like, you are, you know, like, that's never gonna happen. You're gonna be 24, 7.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yeah.

[Bianca Gates]

Or they're like, the real money is made in being an entrepreneur. And, you know, I'm like, if you're chasing the money, you're like, this is not for you, because it's gonna be long and hard. And we started right. There's no promise. And along the way, you're way better off, off getting a job and doing and working hard at a big company. You know, you have a 401k, you have health insurance, you have some reliable form of income. And so I think, like, the best entrepreneurs are those that are just like, almost like, God, I kind of like, don't want to do this, but it's like, I can't not, not do it right. Like, you just. You're, like, so passionate. And then in my case, you know, halfway through the journey, I was like, wow, this is really hard. But, like, there's no going back. You know, you've raised capital. You know, you have investors, you have a board, you've got, like, everyone cheering you on. You're like, like, oh, my God, I can never quit. Like, unlike any job you have where you're like, this isn't working for me. I'm going to give my notice and I quit. Like, you can't quit. You're the last person on the ship. No matter where you're going, you like, that's it. And so it is a commitment for ever, you know, until you decide, you know, this is the right time to exit. And even then, I mean, we sold our company a few months ago. I'm still. I'm still running it. You know, I just. It's hard to let go. But I think you have to have passion, resilience, thick skin. I've had to learn that the hard way. I don't have great thick skin.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Same if you want to do 10 years of therapy, do one year of entrepreneurship. Right?

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yeah.

[Bianca Gates]

Right. You have to learn to just. And that's where community comes in and you can laugh it off because the people that really matter to you have your back. And, like, nothing else really does matter.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yes. Oh, my gosh. I love it. I feel like entrepreneurs have to have some level of delusion. Just like, totally. Like, it's like your alter ego just like has. Has some sort of like 2% edge of a belief that other people don't have. And that delusion is going to guide you forward. And it's a beautiful thing.

[Bianca Gates]

I hope. Oh, my God. I have a long time delusion. It's so true. You have to be delusional enough to think that you're going to be better than anyone else in the world that has done this.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Figure it out.

[Bianca Gates]

And also humble enough to be like, I'm punched in the face every day because I'm a. Like, that was a bad idea. That was a bad decision. Like, I guess I'm not so great, right? Like, it's a constant battle of, you know, two polarizing things.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Yeah.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

So I got my colors done. Bianca, have you heard about this whole thing? You get your. Like, our mom. Oh, no, no. You like you. It's like this thing. Our moms probably did it in some community ed class at some point where you find out. So there are seasons and you get your colors done. So it's all based on your skin tone, your hair, your eyes, what colors look best on you, you. And I discovered in getting my colors done that I am not a black girl. Like, I can't wear black. I need to wear brown. And so I am now flipping all the shoes in my wardrobe from black to brown because all my clothes now are going brown. Anyways, my husband walked down and I was on the Birdie site, and the new loafers are like, oh, yeah, so freaking cute. And he was like, girl, he's like, jenna, if you order another pair of shoes, like, you gotta fifo your shoes. You gotta get some out of here. So I just feel like I'm in a iteration of, like, out with the old, in with the new. And I feel like Birdies is just like reinventing shoes and ideas and design. And I don't know, it's not maybe the original vision that you had, Ms. Bianca, but, like, damn, they're good. You're so good.

[Bianca Gates]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. We're having fun. We're having fun. We've. We've sort of proven ourselves somewhat in, you know, an industry that is, like a very hard to get into industry. We've sort of proven ourselves. We're able to hire, you know, the best talent in the industry. And we're having. We're having a lot of fun. It's. It's been a lot of fun. But by the way, if you're a brown girl.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Yeah.

[Bianca Gates]

I highly recommend, like, colorful shoes, like, you could wear. Like, you know, like yesterday I was wearing, like, this, like, tan dress with a pair of our suede red hummingbird flats. Like, the red with the tan. Like, looks great. Like, we have a lot of. A lot of great colors.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Well, I'm eager and waiting. Where can everybody find you and connect with you also? Everybody, let's start. Lean in circles. Like, I just. I am so behind this, and I love it. So where can we connect with you, Bianca?

[Bianca Gates]

Please do. And actually, maybe we can catch up afterwards and I can kind of give you, like, some bullet points that you can share with your audience in the form of an email if they want it. Like, just to kind of follow the structure. Because, like, the structure is the stickiness and the glue to making this work. It's not just getting together. Yeah. I'm just. Bianca Gates on Instagram. Bianca gates on LinkedIn.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

You can shop Birdies.

[Bianca Gates]

Pretty.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Because that girl bought that URL, baby.

[Bianca Gates]

Yes, I did. Oh, my gosh. That was. That's a story for another time. But, you know, thank you so much.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

For coming on the podcast. This was such a treat.

[Bianca Gates]

You're amazing. Thank you so much.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Oh, my gosh. I loved today's interview. Bianca is just an incredible founder. I feel like she tells it like it is. But I am also so inspired by her love and devotion of community through every step of the journey, whether it was sharing her idea, gathering women in her home, making people be ambassadors for this brand, that was just an idea in her head. Oh, I just feel like community has been at the crux of every single step she's taken.

[Jenna Kutcher]

And I think that we can all take a page from her and Sheryl.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Sandberg's book about creating our own communities. I am obsessed with the structure and the rules that follow this because I feel like, as women, it is so easy for life to get too busy or for things to pop up or for us to quick cancel at last minute. And I think that if we truly want and crave community and we want to be in community with other people, we have to make space for it, and we have to make it as.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Important as everything else in our lives.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

This episode was top notch. I hope you share it with people that you want to be in a lean in community with. In your own lives and I hope that this is the start of something incredible. I hope this is the start of many more communities of women gathering and.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Changing the world together.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Gold Digger Podcast.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Until next time, keep on digging your biggest goals. Thanks for listening to the Gold Digger Podcast.

[Jenna Kutcher (Host)]

I hope today left you inspired and.

[Jenna Kutcher]

Equipped with something you can put into action as you build a business that truly supports your life. If this episode resonated with you, here's how you can help the show reach even more entrepreneurs. Hit follow. Share it with a friend who's building some something meaningful and if you're feeling generous, leave us a review. Those reviews help other listeners discover these conversations when they need them the most. This show has become so much more than I ever imagined, and it's because of listeners like you who show up and share. You are helping build something that will inspire entrepreneurs for years to come. For show notes, links and resources, head to gold diggerpodcast.com keep digging your biggest gold goals. The world needs what you're building.