927: The Relaxed Woman Revolution: Redefining Success Without the Stress

Summary

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The Goal Digger Podcast

Episode 927: The Relaxed Woman Revolution – Redefining Success Without the Stress

Host: Jenna Kutcher
Guest: Nicola Jane Hobbs (Chartered Psychologist, Author of "The Relaxed Woman")
Date: November 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the cultural pressures on ambitious women to constantly hustle and equates their worth with productivity. Host Jenna Kutcher sits down with Nicola Jane Hobbs, psychologist and author of "The Relaxed Woman," to challenge the narrative that rest is laziness. Together, they redefine what it means to be successful, discuss why rest feels so difficult for women—especially entrepreneurs—and share actionable strategies and powerful mindset shifts to create a more restful, meaningful life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Does It Mean to Be a "Relaxed Woman"?

• Challenging Assumptions: The idea of a "relaxed woman" isn't one without ambition or drive, but someone who consciously untangles her self-worth from productivity.
  • Nicola: “To be a relaxed woman, it’s a way of being… she is consciously untangling her sense of worth from her productivity, and she’s learning to relax without guilt or anxiety.” [04:49]
• Etymology Matters: The word ‘relax’ originates from the Old French ‘relaxier’ – to release, liberate, and set free.
  • Nicola: “A relaxed woman is a woman who is free.” [05:15]

2. The Productivity–Worth Trap

• Conditioning Runs Deep: Many women subconsciously equate their worth with being productive, a mindset reinforced by cultural attitudes.
  • Jenna: “So much of my self-worth has been tied up into my productivity… I want to be the most productive person every minute of the day.” [08:30]
• Reframing the Question:
  • Instead of “Have I worked hard enough to deserve rest?” ask, “Have I rested enough to do my best work?”
  • Nicola: “When we’re in this sympathetic fight-or-flight state… we can’t do our best work…” [07:46]

3. The Entrepreneurial Challenge: Fear of Slowing Down

• Work Never Ends: Entrepreneurship can make the idea of boundaries between work and self-worth even more difficult.
  • Nicola: “We’re afraid that if we step away… our whole business is going to fall apart.” [10:12]
• Trust as an Antidote: Building trust in oneself to slow down and observe the results is key.
  • Nicola: “If we can start doing some little experiments… slowing down a little bit and just seeing what happens can be a really powerful way.” [10:41]

4. Cultural Lies & The Myth of "Missing Out"

• Fear of Missing the Big Break: Women are sold the belief that saying no may cost them crucial opportunities.
  • Jenna: “[We’re taught that]… if we say no to things, we’re going to miss the big break.” [12:07]
• Redefining Success: Permission to evolve your ambition and success metrics at each life stage.
  • Nicola: “You haven’t lost your ambition. Your ambitions have shifted directions… I’m ambitious to have a restful life.” [14:17]

5. Rest Isn’t Always Doing Less: It’s a State of Being

• Beyond ‘To-Do’ Lists: Not everyone can simply “do less”—privilege and circumstance matter.
  • Jenna: “It isn’t about necessarily doing less. Right. It’s about the state of being.” [15:56]
• Practical Techniques: Mental rest can come from awareness of stress-inducing thoughts and practicing self-compassion.
  • Nicola: “Begin to notice our stress-inducing thoughts… meet those thoughts with self-compassion… speak to ourselves like we would to a child.” [16:27]

6. Slowing Down as a Life-Changing Practice

• Building Margins: Give yourself transition time; slow down to reconnect with what matters most.
  • Nicola: “Slowing down and giving ourselves these margins of time can be life-changing...” [01:47, 21:27]
• Awareness & Patterns: Checking in with yourself breaks habitual busyness and opens the way for change.
  • Jenna: “You start to see patterns and trends, you start to see triggers…” [18:51]

7. Rest as Proactive, Not Just Reactive

• Don’t wait for burnout to build restful habits; proactive rest sets the foundation for creativity, presence, and resilience.
  • Nicola: “See rest as something that’s proactive so we don’t get to a point where we burn out.” [20:30]

8. Making Rest Accessible (For All)

• Breath as a Tool: Simple practices—like exhaling as if through a straw—can shift your state in the moment.
  • Nicola: “Exhale as if you’re blowing through a straw and it slows down…” [25:20]
• Discover Personal Rest Practices: Reflect on what helps you feel restful (for Nicola: picking raspberries).
  • Nicola: “At the end of the day, every so often, reflect on, okay, what helped me feel restful today?” [25:20]
• Active Rest: Movement or gentle activity can be restful if the intention is presence, not productivity.
  • Nicola: “Rest is intentionally unproductive… If there is an achievement goal, then it’s probably not restful.” [28:10]

9. Rest Is a Muscle & Takes Practice

• Retraining the System: For many, rest feels uncomfortable at first, like training for a marathon.
  • Jenna: “…rest feels like it takes as much work as the work itself… it takes reps.” [29:30]
• Contrast Avoidance Theory: Shifting from stress to rest can feel so uncomfortable we’d rather stay stressed; labeling this helps normalize the challenge.
  • Nicola: “The contrast between stress and a more relaxed state of being can be so uncomfortable that we’d rather just stay a little bit stressed all the time.” [31:00]

10. Modeling Rest for the Next Generation

• Responsibility of Privilege: If you can rest, you have a responsibility to model it for others, especially other women and your children.
  • Nicola: “If I have the privilege of resting, then I have the responsibility to do so…” [36:47]
• Boundaries as a Tool: Clear boundaries support the capacity for rest; expressing those boundaries is both courageous and necessary.
  • Jenna: “…boundaries and rest go hand in hand. I just feel like their besties on the journey…” [40:03]
  • Nicola: “Becoming a relaxed woman takes courage. Because it takes courage to then express that no or to express that boundary…” [41:19]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “To be a relaxed woman, it’s a way of being… she is consciously untangling her sense of worth from her productivity.”
  — Nicola Jane Hobbs [04:49]

• “Instead of asking yourself, have I worked enough to deserve rest, ask yourself if I’ve rested enough to do my best work.”
  — Jenna Kutcher, referencing Nicola’s work [05:57]

• “We’re afraid that if we step away… our whole business is going to fall apart.”
  — Nicola Jane Hobbs [10:12]

• “You haven’t lost your ambition. Your ambitions have shifted directions… I’m ambitious to have a restful life.”
  — Nicola Jane Hobbs [14:17]

• “It isn’t about necessarily doing less… it’s about the state of being.”
  — Jenna Kutcher [15:57]

• “If I have the privilege of resting, then I have the responsibility to do so...”
  — Nicola Jane Hobbs [36:47]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:49] – Defining a “relaxed woman” and challenging cultural beliefs about rest.
• [05:57] – Transformative mindset: Earning rest vs. resting to do your best work.
• [10:12] – The entrepreneurial fear that everything falls apart if you slow down.
• [14:17] – Ambition can be redirected toward restfulness.
• [15:56] – Reframing relaxation as a state of being, not just doing less.
• [16:27] – Practical self-compassion to reduce mental stress.
• [21:27] – The importance of slowing down as a life-changing practice.
• [25:20] – Accessible relaxation and finding your personal rest practice.
• [28:10] – The difference between unproductive rest and productivity disguised as rest.
• [31:00] – Why stress can feel safer than relaxation (contrast avoidance theory).
• [36:47] – The responsibility to model rest for others.
• [40:03] – The relationship between boundaries and rest.
• [43:39] – Nicola’s immediate advice: “Be still for 10 minutes.”

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Actionable Takeaways & Gentle Challenges

• Shift your mindset: Flip the script from “Earn rest” to “Rest to do your best work.”
• Experiment with boundaries: Start with small steps—e.g., checking email less frequently—to build trust that things won’t fall apart.
• Notice your narratives: What are the rules and beliefs driving your busyness? Begin to question and rewrite them.
• Identify your rest triggers: What activities—quiet or active—actually feel restful to you?
• Model rest: If you have the means to rest, model it for others (especially the next generation) and help normalize downtime.
• Practice being still: Even 10 minutes of intentional stillness can be transformative.

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Connect & Learn More

• Nicola Jane Hobbs:
  • Website: therelaxwoman.com
  • Instagram: @nicolajanehobbs
  • Book: “The Relaxed Woman” (available in hardcover and Audible)

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Episode’s Closing Challenge

“If you have 10 minutes, just be still. Maybe even put your palms over your eyes to block out stress and stimulation. Allow yourself 10 minutes to just be where you are.”
— Nicola Jane Hobbs [43:39]

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This episode is a restorative call to rethink work, ambition, and the meaning of true success—placing rest and self-trust at the center. For women entrepreneurs, especially those wrestling with burnout or guilt for slowing down, it’s a reminder: Rest is not only allowed, it’s revolutionary.

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Transcript

[A]

Today's episode is sponsored in part by Morgan Stanley, Revolve and Spectrum what Should I Do with My Money from Morgan Stanley? Makes getting financial advice feel less intimidating. Search for what Should I Do with My Money in your podcast player.

[B]

Revolve is my all time favorite place to shop.

[A]

For my dream wardrobe, head to Revolve.com forward/golddigger to shop my favorites and get 15 off your first order with the code Gold Digger. Spectrum Business keeps your business connected with reliable service you can count on. Visit spectrum.com forward/free for life to learn how you can get business Internet free forever.

[B]

As always, you can find all of.

[A]

Our amazing deals in the show notes. Now let's get into it. This episode is supported by what Should I Do with My Money from Morgan Stanley? Okay, can we just talk about how money is legitimately one of the hardest topics to bring up? Like, even when you think you have your stuff together, there's always this really weird awkwardness around it. That's why I am obsessed with this podcast. It actually makes money conversations feel approachable. I recently listened to an episode about affording multiple big life things at once, like a wedding, a house, an ivf if they were all happening at the same time. And honestly, it hit home. So many people are wondering, can we actually have it all without sacrificing our sanity or our savings? What I love is that they bring in real experts who help break down these massive costs into actual doable steps. It's like having a money mentor in your ear who gets it. Search for what Should I Do with My Money? In your podcast player. We'll also include a link in the show notes. Many thanks to what Should I Do with My Money and Morgan Stanley for their support.

[C]

So I think slowing down and giving ourselves these margins of time can be life changing because like you said, we can begin to touch in and remind ourselves what matters to us. And I think that is really at the heart of being a relaxed woman.

[A]

I'm Jenna Kutcher and I help you trade hustle for purpose and build a business that gives you the life you actually want to live. From a $300 Craigslist camera to a seven figure business I run from home, I've learned that success isn't just about what you do, it's about how you you'll get strategies that work, systems that give you your time back and steps that turn your effort into results and impact. If you're ready for clarity, confidence, and a business that feels as good as it looks, you're in the right place. This is the Gold Digger podcast.

[B]

What if the very thing you've been avoiding, which is slowing down, was actually the key to creating the life in the business that you've been working so hard for? We live in a world where rest has been branded as being lazy, where women, especially ambitious women and entrepreneurs, are expected to do it all. To run the business, to raise the kids, support the family, maintain friendships, and keep it all looking effortless. But beneath the surface, so many of us are exhausted, overwhelmed, and quietly wondering if we'll ever feel enough. My guest today, Nicola Jane Hobbs, is here to challenge that narrative. Nicola is a chartered psychologist with a master's degree in sport and exercise psychology, and she spent more than a decade supporting women's health and well being through yoga, meditation and therapeutic practice. She's also the founder of the Relaxed Woman, a movement and community dedicated to.

[A]

Helping women recover from stress and burnout.

[B]

Her new book, the Relaxed Woman, blends psychology, neuroscience and real life stories to show how rest isn't weakness, it's actually a radical act of healing, freedom and joy. And if you're someone who has tied your worth to your productivity, this conversation is going to feel like a breath of fresh air. Today, Nicola and I are unpacking why rest feels so hard for women, why female entrepreneurs in particular struggle to switch off the most, and the practical rituals and strategies we can use to make peace with rest. So if you are somebody who has ever felt guilty for slowing down, or if burnout has been lurking in the background of your business journey, this episode is for you. Nicola Jane Hobbs, welcome to the Gold Digger podcast. Nicola, let's start with this. And here's what I really want to know is what truly is a relaxed woman? Because I think when people hear that phrase, they might picture somebody who maybe doesn't have ambition, who maybe doesn't have a lot of drive, maybe even someone who's given up. And so when you say a relaxed woman, what do you actually mean?

[C]

Oh, that's such a beautiful question. And exactly what you said about the lack of ambition. I think as I went into this research and into into this work, that was my fear, was that what happens if I lose all my ambition and all my drive? But I began to realize that actually that's a lot of the cultural narrative around relaxation. For example, a lot of us believe that resting is lazy or we have to earn our rest. And what actually come out of the research is that to be a relaxed woman, it's a way of being and it is a process Of, I suppose we could say it's a woman who is consciously untangling her sense of worth from her productivity, and she's learning to relax without guilt or anxiety. And I love how the origin. Say, the etymology of the word relaxed comes from the old French relaxier, which means to release, to liberate, and to set free. And I think that really gets to the heart of what it means to be a relaxed woman. A relaxed woman is a woman who is free. Hmm.

[B]

Your work has deeply transformed my life. And even if I only had a few sentences that you've written, I feel like that alone has changed my life. You really shifted something for me, and I think I discovered it through my sister. Where. And you can say your line, because I don't want to mess it up. But the premise of instead of asking yourself, have I worked enough to deserve rest, ask yourself if I've rested enough to do my best work. And when I learned that and really started to contemplate that thought, that shifted so much for me. I mean, it's revolutionary and it's so simple. And I think that that is why it hits deep, especially for women who are achievers in their nature, maybe competitive or driven. Tell me, like, just walk us through that, that thought alone.

[C]

Yes. I think so many of us, like you said, we're constantly, even on a subconscious level, asking ourselves, have I worked hard enough to deserve rest? As if rest is something that we need to earn by finishing our to do list or achieving all our goals. And I remember one day I was sitting down just to respond to some emails. And. And I'm a psychologist, so they're with clients. And it's. It's important that I show up, even in emails, as someone grounded and with access to as much of my kind of knowledge and compassion as possible. And I was feeling tired, and I remember thinking, I haven't rested enough to do my most loving and meaningful work. And so that was what really helped me flip the. The kind of the. Or completely reframe that way of thinking of have I worked hard enough to deserve rest into have I rest, did enough to do my most loving and meaningful work. And even the research shows us that when we're in this sympathetic fight or flight state which many of us are living in, just from the nature of the. Of the speed and the pressures of modern life, we can't do our best work because we don't have access to higher brain regions as well as emotional brain regions that allow us to be more compassionate. So I think makes sense on A scientific and psychological level, but also on an experiential level of we want to enjoy our work rather than it being something that constantly pulls us away from what matters to us and deeper into depletion.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, I mean that it's again, it's like simple and yet so complex in the entanglement of our lives and the conditioning and what we've been taught. And so it's just so life changing. I want to know what happens. So when I think about entrepreneurship, for me specifically, like so much of my self worth has been tied up into my productivity, right? Like I have even told my husband, I was like, there is something about me where like I want to be the most productive person every minute of the day. Like, I am thinking about how I can take the least amount of steps to get from one space to the other. I'm carrying 8 million cups. I'm thinking through how do I, you know, buckle my seatbelt fast enough to get these things done. Like, my brain is just wired for productivity. And what's interesting is, is that I think for entrepreneurships, obviously our income is usually tied to us showing up. For many of us, that is the requirement to earn a living. How do we untangle, you know, the productive nature, this desire to just keep going, the fact that like the work never ends, how do we untangle that and, and really separate, like who we are, who we are being from the work that we're doing.

[C]

Oh, it's so hard. And I think you, you touch on it so beautifully in the sense of we live in this culture where everything is about speed, productivity optimization, efficiency. And you see it even in health and wellness industries. It's almost like self care has become yet another thing to optimize and do as efficiently as possible. And I mean, as you were talking then, I think the word that comes to mind for me is trust is to trust that. And this is a phrase from one of the women that I interviewed for the book. She said, I'm scared to rest because I'm afraid if I take my foot off the gas, my whole life is going to fall apart. And I think that is such a shared fear for so many women, and especially when you run your own business. We're afraid that if we step away or if we don't check our emails constantly or we don't constantly show up on social media, that our whole business is going to fall apart. When the reality is if we can start doing some little experiments. For example, for me, I only really respond to emails two or three times. A week now, because I found that it doesn't impact anything else, but it took trust and experiment and just practicing being with that uncertainty. And I think for those of us who's worth has been tied up with that productivity for so long, and mine was being able to gently experiment with some ways to not take our foot off the gas entirely, but to just slow down a little bit and just see what happens can be a really powerful way of saying, okay, I'm not going 100 miles an hour, 24, 7 anymore. And actually that's safe because that's what's at the heart of relaxation, is feeling safe enough to do these things.

[B]

Okay. I have been on a journey so similar. Like, I love the idea, the illustration of the foot on the gas, because when I became a mom seven years ago, I remember sitting on this podcast and talking about how I was going to take my foot off the gas and trust myself to know where the gas pedal was, right? Like, to really believe that if and when I needed to hit it again, I knew where it was. And I remember unpacking so much during that time because it was a struggle for us to start our family. And so I was like, when we were finally able to, I was like, I am not going to miss this, right? Like, I prayed for this. I am so awake to this. And I remember really thinking about, like, why as women, is this so hard to trust ourselves? And I felt like, for me, women are sold this lie of, like, our big break. Like, if we say no to things, we're going to miss the big break. And you think about, like, so many movies and even, like, you know, the funny Hallmark movies of, like, she waltzes into the coffee shop and she meets the man, and the man changes her life and all these different things. And it's like, all of these different illustrations in our lives of, like, you need to be everywhere and say yes to everything because you never know what your big break will be. And it really got me to thinking of, like, why are we taught that, like, we can't create our own opportunities? Like, where is the piece of the narrative of, like, I am capable of building momentum, and I am also capable of slowing down that momentum without fear. And it was just a really interesting time in my life. And I feel like right now, seven years later, I'm at a very similar stage in my life where I thought that once my kids were in school, I would be hitting the gas pedal again. Like, that was my thought is like, be present, be awake. Be here for all of this. And Once those kids are in school, you're gonna have so much time. It's gonna be like retirement, in a sense.

[A]

You're gonna hit the gas pedal again.

[B]

And I've actually found the opposite to be true, that I want to hit the break even harder. And it's really interesting because I do think that it comes from a deeper place of trust, of, like, trusting in opportunity, trusting in boundaries, trusting in what success is and what it looks like. And so I'm just curious for you, with all the clients you've worked with, what are some of the lies that you think women are believing that keep us in that busied, frantic state where we don't really have that trust, that relaxing or slowing down is possible and plausible?

[C]

Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful, what you said. And I can completely relate to what you've said about. It's almost like what we touched on earlier is you haven't lost your ambition. Yeah. Ambitions have shifted directions. So, like, for me, I'd say I'm just as ambitious as I ever was, but I'm ambitious to have a restful life. Like you said, it's so difficult when we're. When we're online or when we're looking at other people's lives to not get sucked into someone else's idea of success.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So to be open to our own evolution of what success looks like at that point in our lives. But, I mean, I think in terms of the lies, ultimately, if we keep peeling back the layers, it's, you're not good enough. I think that the. The sense of inadequacy and worthlessness that we. We've absorbed over the years from so many sources, often from childhood and growing up. And it could be tiny comments, or it could be more of just the cultural energy around women having to work so much harder and having to juggle so many different things that, of course, it feels like we're gonna fail. And it's actually really empowering when we decide what matters to us rather than thinking we have to do it all.

[B]

You know, it's interesting. I love the start of your book where you're just like, I've never known a relaxed woman. And I think that it's so true, and it's easy for somebody listening to be like, well, good for you if you have the ability to relax. I don't. And one of the reframes that you do so beautifully is it's not about doing less. It's about the state of your being.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because there are so many layers of privilege. There are so many different areas of life where it really isn't possible in terms of narrowing your to do list, right? Like how lucky are we to say, like, hey, I'm just not going to log in today. Right. Some people don't have that privilege. But one of the reframes that I think is so powerful, that would literally touch anybody listening to this is it isn't about necessarily doing less. Right. It's about the state of being. Talk to me about that a little bit more.

[C]

Yes, I see relaxation as a way of being. And I've, you know, I think relaxation is really difficult to, to experience unless we have some kind of definition for it. And because it's something that hasn't really been spoken about that much, it's never been researched. So there's not really a clear definition of it. So I always think of, I think of relaxation as aliveness without tension. So it's almost a sense of knowing that we have this to do list and it doesn't have to be finished before we can relax. And that ties into this, this sense of mental rest. So I think a lot of women, especially if we're entrepreneurs and we're building our own business, there's always going to be something to do. There's always going to be something that we feel inspired to build or to create. And so our minds are constantly working. And so I think no matter where our limitations or privileges are, is if we can learn to give our brains a break, that's going to help us feel so much more recharged. And there are a couple of different ways that we can do this. So one of them is beginning to notice our stress inducing thoughts. So for me, one is I haven't got enough time. If that thought pops up that then triggers a stress response in my body or I've got so much to do. That's another thought of mine that will trigger that stress response and then being able to meet those thoughts with self compassion. So it might be that we just put a hand on a heart and just say, take your time, there's no rush and speak to ourselves like we would to a child. And also for mental rest, I love the idea of what's called noting. So almost noting what your mind is doing. So it might be that it looks like you're relaxed. Say you're, I don't know, resting on the sofa watching a movie with your kids. But your mind might be worrying about the thing you've got to upload or the mistake you made in an email or something. There's always something that. That place that our mind tends to wander to. And if we can catch ourselves and begin to note. So it might be worrying, planning, comparing, thinking, whatever the mental process is that our mind is doing, it just helps us to step away from the story and come back to lying on the sofa watching the television with our kids.

[B]

Yeah, I love those thoughts because I feel like with a deeper level of awareness and even just like, simply noticing, you start to see patterns and trends, you start to see triggers, and you start to, like, see the areas too, where, like, you've almost built up a system that works against you. Like, what am I up to in this? Right. Like, why am I putting crazy deadlines on something that doesn't matter? Or why am I, you know, why am I setting myself up in this way? And it is, it's interesting because I think it requires even just a few seconds of pause. And I notice, you know, when I wrote my book a couple years ago, the thought process was around, like, women are afraid to ask, how am I really? Because they're afraid that the answer might be, I'm not. Well, Right. Like. Like it isn't good. Or like, this life isn't what I thought it would be. And I just think about how we're so quick to fill every second of our days with sound, with social media, with our phone, like, our phones travel with us everywhere, that we don't even get quiet with ourselves. And just having those minutes to, like, check in and to do it often. I feel like that is such a game changer because you do.

[A]

You start.

[B]

We all have loops and patterns that our brains are on. Right. And I think so many of them keep us overworked and underested. And if we don't even ponder them or notice them, it's like, how do we break that cycle? What's your advice? You have a clinical background in this.

[C]

So I think that is where people often, so often hit burnout. And that's a huge point of questioning, kind of is, this is the way I'm living, the way I want to continue living?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

But we want to begin to see rest as something that's proactive so we don't get to a point where we burn out. And so, I mean, I think, like, for me, what I've learned to do is everything, especially I've got a toddler, so everything always takes longer than I think it's going to take always. And so for me, I know that rushing is a huge trigger for stress, and it is for everyone. Because when we rush we get sucked into what researchers called an attentional vortex, which means that we lose connection with what matters and instead we get distracted and pulled into our phone, or we lose ourselves in other people's demands, or an email pings up and pulls us away from the deep work that we want to do. So I think slowing down and giving ourselves these margins of time can be life changing because like you said, we can begin to touch in and remind ourselves what matters to us. And I think that is really at the heart of being a relaxed woman, is being connected to our values and connected to our loved ones and our wider communities. Instead of living by, or I often call this an internalized rulebook of ships of how we should live our lives. That patriarchy capitalism, whoever it is, has kind of. We've absorbed that message.

[B]

You know, as you're talking about your toddler. And like, even just getting out the door, my almost 7 year old is learning how to tell time, which is amazing and terrible because now when we're trying to leave for places, it's like, okay, do we have enough time? Like, what does the clock say? And you know, I, my mom, I love her, she'll listen to this for sure. She was, I was five minutes late, like we were. I was just perpetually five minutes late for everything. And she would even so much as like change the time on the clocks, but then she would know there were five minutes that she'd add in that time. And so my dad was. That was perpetually early. And I have noticed even if we're running late, like, that energy is so much different for me, for my kids, like, it's, it's just a whole different level of exhaustion that follows that. It's like the thrill, right? It's like the exhilaration and then like the drop. And it is so interesting how much more present and mindful and joyful you are when you have just even a little bit of cushion. And as somebody with adhd, I don't get enough cushions as much as I would want to. But it is something where I've learned to like, not push the time on my kids.

[A]

Like, we're running late, we gotta get in the car.

[B]

Hurry up, like, get your shoes on. Like that. I'm like, that is not their fault. And that is also not enjoyable for anyone. And it usually just means that it's gonna be even later, right? And so just changing energy around that is also so huge. But I feel like for so many of us, it's so hard, right?

[C]

Because I think that the energy of rushing. It can be quite addictive. Yeah, you productive. Even if it's actually pulling away, pulling us away from doing the things and the work that we care about. And I think sometimes that feeling of productivity is something that we're striving for. Even if all we end up doing is busy work that actually we'd be far more effective if we took a break and then came back to what we were doing later. But because I think we're so scared of feeling unproductive or feeling as though we're wasting time that we then just push ourselves into trying to do whatever it is we're doing and it kind of backfiring and depleting us totally.

[B]

One thing I think about is like, I feel like our culture has created this idea of rest as like you're going to take, you know, a two week vacation or you know, you're going to log off and do this. And it's easy to see it in terms of like a spa vacation, which is not accessible for most and not something that happens often for pretty much all of us. And so how can we start incorporating this idea of relaxing or resting into our day to day lives? Like what is just like one tangible way that no matter how busy we are or how much we have on our plates, like we're starting to just adopt it into our day to day life. Because I would argue as a mom of daughters, I want them to see me relax often and not just on special occasions. Right. I want that to be a part of our family culture. And so what does that look like in practice?

[C]

So it can be as simple as using the breath. And I think when I work with moms and they're feeling that stress energy, come on. I say to them, exhale as if you're blowing through a straw and it slows down. And I think even just that can remind us and bring us back to our center and remind us that we're not being chased by a tiger. The thing is, everyone finds different things relaxing, especially if we've experienced trauma or we're neurodivergent. It might be that actually something that looks restful to the outside world, like lying down on a sofa that you've still got a lot of the fight or flight energy going on inside. So what I think it's really helpful to kind of at the end of the day every so often to reflect on, okay, what, what helped me feel restful today. When have I felt most relaxed? And so for me, when I do that, did this recently, it was actually going and picking raspberries. So we've got. Yeah, I'm never going to find that in a book or it's some generic piece of advice. Go and pick raspberries. So I think that can be really powerful in beginning to think about how can rest be accessible for me in my life in a way that actually helps me relax.

[B]

Okay. I love that you said that because as you were speaking, I was just thinking about gardening. And it's like, you're active and you're in motion, but, like, I feel so deeply connected to myself, to nature. Like, my. As a mom, my greatest joy is, like, seeing my girls outside with a watering can and just, like, noticing. Right. Like, it's just like the ultimate presence. And so I think it is important to talk about, like, relaxing isn't just like becoming a couch potato. Right. Or like, rotting on the couch while you watch Netflix. I think for a lot of people, rest and relaxation might be active, but just a different type of active. And for me, that resonates again, as somebody who is like, someone who likes to be in motion, finding, like, active rest is, I think, a game changer because, you know, even if I'm laying on the couch, I'm like, well, I guess I could be doing. I could fold laundry or guess, like, you know, like, where it's so easy. Even our attention spans can't even, you know, watch TV these days without being distracted. And so I love that idea of, like, active relaxation in a way that is. Is truly like, nervous system calming for you. Am I going in the wrong direction or no? Are you, like, you're lying? This is still productivity wrapped up.

[C]

No, that's right. But I think that does tap into. What I was just going to touch on is it's almost the intention that matters. Because if you're, for example, baking, like, I love baking.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

With my toddler. But there's no outcome. There's no. I haven't got Pinterest up. And I'm aiming for it to look beautiful.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And I. So I think there are certain qualities where rest is intentionally unproductive, almost. If there is an achievement goal, then it's probably not restful because it's taking you away from being present.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And that active rest can often be almost a doorway or an entry point to a more kind of still rest, like a yoga nidra or a seated meditation, if that's something that feels accessible. But to begin with, we often have to just begin with the slightly more active ways of calming our nervous system. Because if we've Been in a flight or fight for weeks, months, years, sometimes decades. I think for. For some people, we can't then just expect ourselves to feel safe lying down in stillness, not doing anything. So it's. It's almost again we come back to the word trust comes up. For me, it's trusting that it's taken time for our lives to speed up. It's almost like that story about the. The frog or the toad that's in there, the pot of water that slow, the temperature is slowly turned up little by little. And it's the same with stress as we take on more and more, more almost without noticing it. And it's. And then we have to kind of untangle that and slowly introduce rest back into our life in a way that feels safe.

[B]

I have told friends before, like, if you've ever heard of those running plans where it's like couch to 5K, I'm like, you guys are running the marathon and you need to get back to the couch. Like, it's like a training, right? Like, it is a muscle that you need to flex and it takes reps. And for me, you know, I've been learning to rest, especially over recent years, where sometimes rest feels like it takes as much work as the work itself. Like, work feels second nature because it feeds that dopamine, right? Of, like, doing. And for me, rest takes work. It takes presence. It takes, like a different style of ambition to actually get there. And it almost reminds me of, like, if you ever have run, like, the first half mile sucks. No matter if you are a seasoned runner or it's your first run, it sucks. And then all of a sudden you kind of break through and you're like, wow, okay, wait, this isn't so bad. This is feeling better. And I kind of feel like rest.

[A]

Can be like that for certain people.

[B]

I know for myself, it is where it's almost like you have to break through, through that discomfort and prove to yourself that you're capable of it. Because I swear to you, Nicola, there were years where I was like, I'm incapable of rest. I don't need rest. All these things. And it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, you. You didn't even know how to tap into that. You didn't even know how to get there. Have you experienced that? Have your clients experienced that?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, my. My relationship with rest sounds very similar to yours as you're talking, and that's what drew me to this work, because it's almost like we. We think we're superwoman and we don't need. We don't need this biological necessity that everybody needs. But I think, I mean, as you were talking there, just what was coming up was this sense of rest, being. Sometimes. Sometimes relaxation is something that we do. It's a practice. And other times relaxation is something that happens to us. It's something we receive as a gift when we feel good enough and when we feel safe. And the discomfort, I think sometimes comes as the entry point, like you were saying, in the same way that boredom is often the entry point to creativity. I think that restless kind of feeling is actually a discharge of stress through stress hormones, through your nervous system. So it is that transition. And in psychology, there's a really lovely theory called contrast avoidance theory, which is about how the contrast between stress and a more relaxed state of being can be so uncomfortable that we'd rather just stay a little bit stressed all the time. And I think even just naming that, we begin to recognize it in ourselves. And also sometimes the opposite is uncomfortable. Going from relaxed to stress, when we have to kind of get ourselves going again, we've got a goal we want to achieve to. So just trusting that that's just a temporary state as we're moving between different levels of stress, arousal can be really helpful.

[B]

Oh, that is so true and so interesting. And I think so many people can't sit in that tension. Or it's hard. It is, it's just hard to sit in that tension. Right. I know when my kids say that they're bored, like, I'm like, good. Like, they get so annoyed with me because I'm like, that's awesome. I can't wait to see what comes out of it. And I feel like as adults we don'. Let ourselves be bored anymore. Like, what is boredom as an adult? For me, motherhood has been such a mirror because I am so clear on the things I want my daughters to believe, the things I want them to see, the things I want them to know. And oftentimes I'm like, if I want it for them, I want it for me too. Right? Like, I. I have to want this for myself and model it as much as I want it for them. And I feel like this is something that when I really started following your work and listening to your book and just really thinking through, like, the women in my life and, and how amazing and hard working they are, but also, like, have I ever really seen them, like chill or just be. It was really eye opening because, you know, I want my daughters to be able to relax and to be rested and so it is. It's like a challenge of like, how am I modeling that? And what does that look like? What has that looked like? Or your relationship with being a relaxed woman as you've been on this journey, writing the book and launching the book, also having a toddler. What does that look like for you?

[C]

So I think for me it's. It's really trusting in rhythm. So I get a lot of inspiration from nature and just trusting that there are going to be these times in life where we have deadlines and we have responsible responsibilities and we have demands and we have to challenge ourselves in order to meet them. But then when the opportunity to rest comes, whether that's from a breath or for a few weeks, a few months, a season to embrace it. So, like, we've touched on. So I was juggling editing my book with having a little baby, and then the book came out three months ago. So since then, I've pretty much taken that time to mother full time, and the tugging is still there. I could be working on my business or when he's napping, or I could be starting to write another book. But actually I've made a promise to myself that I'm not gonna launch into any new projects until the beginning of next year because I don't know when the next stressor is gonna come. And it will, because that's just life. And I want to make sure I've recovered from publishing a book and having a baby so that I'm ready for it, so that I'm prepared. And I think it's, you know, I think with. We're surrounded by technology where there's much more. A sense of linear growth and constancy. Yeah. Whereas with nature, there's this flux of producing and harvesting and tending and then resting. And so I suppose that's how my relationship with resting has changed. It's trusting that I have the capacity to cope with stress when it arises by embracing rest as a gift when it's there.

[B]

Wow. That brings me to the second thing. I mean, you said a million things that are life changing, but the second one, that really stuck with me and I. If you have the exact quote, I would love it, but I will give you what I took from it is just if you have the ability to rest, like it is your responsibility to do it. I mean, women need to see that. And I really took that to heart and I saw that as like, wow. You know, it isn't often modeled. Like we. We don't see it modeled. And if people are doing it it's usually not something that's like, hey, look at me. I'm resting. Right. Like, if it's a true state of rest, can you summarize what your quote was? Because I remember screenshotting it and sending it to a bunch of different friends, especially just in this stage of my life where instead of hitting the gas pedal, I'm like, I think I want to hit the break even more.

[C]

Yeah. So it was just this sense of, if I have the privilege of resting, then I have the responsibility to do so. Because if I work through lunch, reply to emails, out of hours, never, never ask for help when I'm struggling, then I'm normalizing these things for other women. Whereas if I do the opposite, if I make sure that I take a lunch break when I have the freedom to do so, and if I ask for help rather. Rather than trying to do everything on my own, then that creates a very subtle shift. But if we all start doing these things, then that becomes normal for women until it doesn't feel so revolutionary to talk about a relaxed woman, and that just becomes normal. That our kids grow up seeing us rel. And. And my. I think you've touched on your mum's kind of relationship with rest. And I've seen how my mum's relationship with rest has changed as well, because my childhood was quite like yours, and we were always late, we always had too much to do, and everything was always a rush. And actually, I've seen how she's slowed down.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

She started prioritizing, taking care of herself.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

As well as caring for everyone else. And it's just made me. You know, I'm really grateful that I had. I've had the opportunity to. To do so much research and to take the time to write the book because it has completely changed my life.

[B]

Well, I told you this, but I have the audible because I could listen to you talk for hours. And I also have the hardcover copy. And one of the things that I love at the very beginning of your book is you're like, this is not another thing to complete, like, read and come back to this book. And it was, like, already untangling the achiever right of, like, I'm gonna read this book from start to finish in this. And it was like this exhale of, like, expectations, I think. And again, I think this is just evidence of, like, permission and modeling, two things that I think women need more of, both to do and to see, because it does. It unlocks something. And I just like you. When I. When my book came Out I had a six month old, so I remember editing the manuscript with a little baby on my chest and I, I loved it. Like I actually was very present and enjoyed, I enjoyed every bit of the book process, which is not normal. But I remember saying too like, I will commit to promoting this book for a month and then I am committing to my family. And having those types of boundaries made it so clear for me, but also for the people with requests or the opportunities that were coming up of like, here is a line in the sand that I've drawn and I will not be sitting swayed because this is what I value. And I feel like when I send out emails like that where it's expressing a boundary or values, I get so many more messages saying thank you for this, I've never seen this done or wow, this really hit me of like areas that I can do that in. Do you think that boundaries and rest go hand in hand? I. I just feel like their besties on the journey in the sense of like, how do we create spaciousness or how do we create a place where we can truly be.

[C]

Yeah. And I think boundaries. So as a psychologist, I often think of when people come to work with me and we're in session is I'm holding space. So I'm being tainer, I'm being almost like the boundaries. And I think with rest, we often need to find that for ourselves and to find whether it's people or places that act as a safety, a kind of a safe, A safe holding place where we can rest for a little while. And I think relaxation and rest, it. It often really taps into. I think it taps into so many things related to guilt, worth people please and perfectionism. It opens the door to all these things, but it encourages us to get to know what our values are. And from that place we can start, we can start setting boundaries and we can start sensing how does a no feel in my body and how does a yes feel in my body? And I always say becoming a relaxed woman takes courage. Because it takes courage to then express that no or to express that boundary or to everyone else is doing one thing. And actually that doesn't suit us or our values or our lifestyle. So we do something else. And so I think, yeah, boundaries and rest have. So are so intertwined.

[B]

You know, it's so interesting, this idea because when I was thinking of your book, one of my friends, Rory Vaden, he's in the publishing space, he works with a lot of authors and he said that the best book titles you could put the Words I want to be. And then the book title. And when I think of your book title for so many women, like, I want to be a relaxed woman. And it's such an interesting thing because even in saying that, I think that feelings of like, selfishness could come up or feelings of like, yeah, like losing your ambition. And I think the opposite is true. Can you share a story from the book of someone who, you know, maybe is like our listener who has ambition and achievement or big dreams and they've kind of begun the process of learning what that feels like for them?

[C]

Yeah. So I share a story of one of, one of the women that I work with and she, she's an illustrator. So she is very naturally creative and is very, she loves her work and she's a very perfectionist like a lot of the women that I work with. And she would work all hours, had different jobs just to try and make ends meet. And then she, more and more, she started to actually trust that creating a business from the things she loved the most was a possibility. And we work with like, we touched on boundaries. We're putting boundaries in place for when she would practice her art. And I don't work with her anymore, but she emailed me not long ago and she has a wedding invitation business and that's how it emerged. And it wasn't, it wasn't necessarily she didn't have a 10 step plan or she didn't have strict deadlines. It was just, this is what unfolds and this is what arises when I allow myself to rest and that allows me to do my best work.

[B]

Thank you so much for coming on the show. If somebody is listening today and they have 10 minutes before their next appointment or their next thing, what is one thing that they could do to start their journey beyond buying your book and getting the audible?

[C]

I would say be still. If you've got 10 minutes, just be still. Just sit there. Maybe even. I think sometimes it's really beautiful just to put your palms over your eyes and it helps you block out so much stress and stimulation comes in visually. So just by covering our eyes, it, it instantly helps us feel calm. So there's so much, I think if you've only got 10 minutes, there's probably so much that's already on your to do list. So just allow yourself 10 minutes to just be still and be where you are.

[B]

Where can everybody find you and connect with you and be impacted by your work? Give us all of the places.

[C]

So I have a website called therelaxwoman.com which is where I offer courses and coaching for women just to help them on their relaxed women journey and to prevent burnout. And then Instagram. I'm under Nicola Jane Hobbs awesome.

[B]

Thank you so much for writing this book, for doing this meaningful work, and thank you for changing my life.

[C]

Oh no, thank you for having me and for having this conversation. We need to talk about rest more.

[B]

Yes. I'm not kidding when I say that Nicola's work has changed my life. Like even just those two sentiments that we shared in this episode. I think about them all the time. Think about them all the time. And I have done so much work in untangling my deep desire to be productive, in really understanding just how beautiful and sacred and beneficial rest is and how different it can look for each of us. I hope today's episode inspired you to reconsider how you are moving through your life, even if it's just stealing a few deep breaths here and there and to really ponder what it would mean for you to start your journey journey in becoming a more relaxed woman. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you know someone who could benefit from it, please take a moment to share it with them. And until next time, Gold Diggers, keep on digging your biggest goals, but also take a minute to rest and relax too.

[A]

Thanks for listening to the Gold Digger podcast.

[B]

I hope today left you inspired and.

[A]

Equipped with something you can put into.

[B]

Action as you build a business that.

[A]

Truly, truly supports your life. If this episode resonated with you, here's how you can help this show reach even more entrepreneurs. Hit follow. Share it with a friend who's building something meaningful. And if you're feeling generous, leave us a review those reviews help other listeners discover these conversations when they need them the most. This show has become so much more than I ever imagined, and it's because of listeners like you who show up and share.

[B]

You are helping build something that will.

[A]

Inspire entrepreneurs for years to come. For show notes, links and resources, head to golddiggerpodcast.com keep digging your biggest goals. The world needs what you're building.