The Goal Digger Podcast

Episode 927: The Relaxed Woman Revolution – Redefining Success Without the Stress

Host: Jenna Kutcher
Guest: Nicola Jane Hobbs (Chartered Psychologist, Author of "The Relaxed Woman")
Date: November 3, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the cultural pressures on ambitious women to constantly hustle and equates their worth with productivity. Host Jenna Kutcher sits down with Nicola Jane Hobbs, psychologist and author of "The Relaxed Woman," to challenge the narrative that rest is laziness. Together, they redefine what it means to be successful, discuss why rest feels so difficult for women—especially entrepreneurs—and share actionable strategies and powerful mindset shifts to create a more restful, meaningful life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Does It Mean to Be a "Relaxed Woman"?

• Challenging Assumptions: The idea of a "relaxed woman" isn't one without ambition or drive, but someone who consciously untangles her self-worth from productivity.
  • Nicola: “To be a relaxed woman, it’s a way of being… she is consciously untangling her sense of worth from her productivity, and she’s learning to relax without guilt or anxiety.” [04:49]
• Etymology Matters: The word ‘relax’ originates from the Old French ‘relaxier’ – to release, liberate, and set free.
  • Nicola: “A relaxed woman is a woman who is free.” [05:15]

2. The Productivity–Worth Trap

• Conditioning Runs Deep: Many women subconsciously equate their worth with being productive, a mindset reinforced by cultural attitudes.
  • Jenna: “So much of my self-worth has been tied up into my productivity… I want to be the most productive person every minute of the day.” [08:30]
• Reframing the Question:
  • Instead of “Have I worked hard enough to deserve rest?” ask, “Have I rested enough to do my best work?”
  • Nicola: “When we’re in this sympathetic fight-or-flight state… we can’t do our best work…” [07:46]

3. The Entrepreneurial Challenge: Fear of Slowing Down

• Work Never Ends: Entrepreneurship can make the idea of boundaries between work and self-worth even more difficult.
  • Nicola: “We’re afraid that if we step away… our whole business is going to fall apart.” [10:12]
• Trust as an Antidote: Building trust in oneself to slow down and observe the results is key.
  • Nicola: “If we can start doing some little experiments… slowing down a little bit and just seeing what happens can be a really powerful way.” [10:41]

4. Cultural Lies & The Myth of "Missing Out"

• Fear of Missing the Big Break: Women are sold the belief that saying no may cost them crucial opportunities.
  • Jenna: “[We’re taught that]… if we say no to things, we’re going to miss the big break.” [12:07]
• Redefining Success: Permission to evolve your ambition and success metrics at each life stage.
  • Nicola: “You haven’t lost your ambition. Your ambitions have shifted directions… I’m ambitious to have a restful life.” [14:17]

5. Rest Isn’t Always Doing Less: It’s a State of Being

• Beyond ‘To-Do’ Lists: Not everyone can simply “do less”—privilege and circumstance matter.
  • Jenna: “It isn’t about necessarily doing less. Right. It’s about the state of being.” [15:56]
• Practical Techniques: Mental rest can come from awareness of stress-inducing thoughts and practicing self-compassion.
  • Nicola: “Begin to notice our stress-inducing thoughts… meet those thoughts with self-compassion… speak to ourselves like we would to a child.” [16:27]

6. Slowing Down as a Life-Changing Practice

• Building Margins: Give yourself transition time; slow down to reconnect with what matters most.
  • Nicola: “Slowing down and giving ourselves these margins of time can be life-changing...” [01:47, 21:27]
• Awareness & Patterns: Checking in with yourself breaks habitual busyness and opens the way for change.
  • Jenna: “You start to see patterns and trends, you start to see triggers…” [18:51]

7. Rest as Proactive, Not Just Reactive

• Don’t wait for burnout to build restful habits; proactive rest sets the foundation for creativity, presence, and resilience.
  • Nicola: “See rest as something that’s proactive so we don’t get to a point where we burn out.” [20:30]

8. Making Rest Accessible (For All)

• Breath as a Tool: Simple practices—like exhaling as if through a straw—can shift your state in the moment.
  • Nicola: “Exhale as if you’re blowing through a straw and it slows down…” [25:20]
• Discover Personal Rest Practices: Reflect on what helps you feel restful (for Nicola: picking raspberries).
  • Nicola: “At the end of the day, every so often, reflect on, okay, what helped me feel restful today?” [25:20]
• Active Rest: Movement or gentle activity can be restful if the intention is presence, not productivity.
  • Nicola: “Rest is intentionally unproductive… If there is an achievement goal, then it’s probably not restful.” [28:10]

9. Rest Is a Muscle & Takes Practice

• Retraining the System: For many, rest feels uncomfortable at first, like training for a marathon.
  • Jenna: “…rest feels like it takes as much work as the work itself… it takes reps.” [29:30]
• Contrast Avoidance Theory: Shifting from stress to rest can feel so uncomfortable we’d rather stay stressed; labeling this helps normalize the challenge.
  • Nicola: “The contrast between stress and a more relaxed state of being can be so uncomfortable that we’d rather just stay a little bit stressed all the time.” [31:00]

10. Modeling Rest for the Next Generation

• Responsibility of Privilege: If you can rest, you have a responsibility to model it for others, especially other women and your children.
  • Nicola: “If I have the privilege of resting, then I have the responsibility to do so…” [36:47]
• Boundaries as a Tool: Clear boundaries support the capacity for rest; expressing those boundaries is both courageous and necessary.
  • Jenna: “…boundaries and rest go hand in hand. I just feel like their besties on the journey…” [40:03]
  • Nicola: “Becoming a relaxed woman takes courage. Because it takes courage to then express that no or to express that boundary…” [41:19]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “To be a relaxed woman, it’s a way of being… she is consciously untangling her sense of worth from her productivity.”
  — Nicola Jane Hobbs [04:49]

• “Instead of asking yourself, have I worked enough to deserve rest, ask yourself if I’ve rested enough to do my best work.”
  — Jenna Kutcher, referencing Nicola’s work [05:57]

• “We’re afraid that if we step away… our whole business is going to fall apart.”
  — Nicola Jane Hobbs [10:12]

• “You haven’t lost your ambition. Your ambitions have shifted directions… I’m ambitious to have a restful life.”
  — Nicola Jane Hobbs [14:17]

• “It isn’t about necessarily doing less… it’s about the state of being.”
  — Jenna Kutcher [15:57]

• “If I have the privilege of resting, then I have the responsibility to do so...”
  — Nicola Jane Hobbs [36:47]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:49] – Defining a “relaxed woman” and challenging cultural beliefs about rest.
• [05:57] – Transformative mindset: Earning rest vs. resting to do your best work.
• [10:12] – The entrepreneurial fear that everything falls apart if you slow down.
• [14:17] – Ambition can be redirected toward restfulness.
• [15:56] – Reframing relaxation as a state of being, not just doing less.
• [16:27] – Practical self-compassion to reduce mental stress.
• [21:27] – The importance of slowing down as a life-changing practice.
• [25:20] – Accessible relaxation and finding your personal rest practice.
• [28:10] – The difference between unproductive rest and productivity disguised as rest.
• [31:00] – Why stress can feel safer than relaxation (contrast avoidance theory).
• [36:47] – The responsibility to model rest for others.
• [40:03] – The relationship between boundaries and rest.
• [43:39] – Nicola’s immediate advice: “Be still for 10 minutes.”

Actionable Takeaways & Gentle Challenges

• Shift your mindset: Flip the script from “Earn rest” to “Rest to do your best work.”
• Experiment with boundaries: Start with small steps—e.g., checking email less frequently—to build trust that things won’t fall apart.
• Notice your narratives: What are the rules and beliefs driving your busyness? Begin to question and rewrite them.
• Identify your rest triggers: What activities—quiet or active—actually feel restful to you?
• Model rest: If you have the means to rest, model it for others (especially the next generation) and help normalize downtime.
• Practice being still: Even 10 minutes of intentional stillness can be transformative.

Connect & Learn More

• Nicola Jane Hobbs:
  • Website: therelaxwoman.com
  • Instagram: @nicolajanehobbs
  • Book: “The Relaxed Woman” (available in hardcover and Audible)

Episode’s Closing Challenge

“If you have 10 minutes, just be still. Maybe even put your palms over your eyes to block out stress and stimulation. Allow yourself 10 minutes to just be where you are.”
— Nicola Jane Hobbs [43:39]

This episode is a restorative call to rethink work, ambition, and the meaning of true success—placing rest and self-trust at the center. For women entrepreneurs, especially those wrestling with burnout or guilt for slowing down, it’s a reminder: Rest is not only allowed, it’s revolutionary.