The Goal Digger Podcast

Episode 941: How to Break Free From the System That Needs You to Doubt Yourself
Host: Jenna Kutcher
Guest: Ana Malaika Tubbs (NYT bestselling author, sociologist)
Date: December 22, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores how the systems that shape our society—particularly American patriarchy—impact women’s sense of worth, visibility, and leadership. Jenna Kutcher speaks with Dr. Ana Malaika Tubbs about the deep-rooted narratives designed to make women doubt themselves, the historic erasure of women (especially mothers) from stories of power, and actionable steps for reclaiming agency and changing the script both individually and collectively.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Women Feel “Too Much” and the Root of Self-Doubt

[04:03 – 07:07]

• Jenna opens with the struggle many women feel around being “too much”—too bold, visible, loud—and asks how fear and safety are connected.
• Ana explains this is systemic:

  “That system really taught us as women and even when we were young girls that we needed to fit into certain boxes and that no matter what we did, really, we were doing something wrong. This was a strategy to control all of us.” (04:31)

• These messages begin early (“the water we’re swimming in”), and until we question where these beliefs come from, we see them as personal flaws instead of systemic strategies for control.

2. Motherhood, Work, and Invisible Barriers

[07:07 – 13:58]

• Many women internalize systemic failures as personal inadequacies—especially after becoming mothers.

• Ana recounts the historical “marriage bar” in the U.S. that forced women (e.g., MLK Jr.’s mother) to leave careers once they married:

  “Policies... were in place for a very long time in the United States... but if women are unaware of that history, and instead they think they’re just not doing enough, ... it’s actually that they don’t have the supports in place—and strategically so.” (07:07)

• The U.S. lacks basic support others take for granted (affordable childcare, paid leave), leaving women isolated and secretive about the help they do have:

  “We have to get rid of the mystery of it all.” (12:50)

• Memorable moment:
  Jenna notes,

  “I bet there are very few men out there who are asked that question [about who’s with their kids].” (13:50)

3. Power, Leadership, and Redefining Success

[16:53 – 21:47]

• Ana challenges the individualistic, masculine idea of power (“every man for himself”).

  “Women who have ascended through the ranks... have often been told, you need to fit this traditional notion of power... but then at the same time, if you do that, we’re going to say you’re too bossy.” (16:53)

• True power is collective:

  “We actually have collective power and we can work together. ... You can still lead... without having to replicate these notions of every person for themselves.” (18:10)

• Jenna shares her evolution from “hustle” to embracing “softening” as a leader, noting, “When women get into powerful positions and have the opportunity to have choice, the choices they make are different than their counterparts. ... Data backs this up.” (20:55)

4. Origins and Impact of American Patriarchy

[21:47 – 27:29]

• Ana gives a mini-history lesson:

  “When our Founding fathers won the Revolutionary War, ... in the Constitution, they decide that men are the ones who will have power... They did not want women to participate politically. ... In letters they say that women are supposed to be docile, women are supposed to be protected.” (21:55)

• The system excluded not just women but also enslaved people, Indigenous, immigrants, and the poor; it harmed even those it claimed to benefit.
• Thus, our “democracy” was actually an “American patriarchy,” with power built on exclusion and domination.
• This system is so embedded we often don’t question it.

5. The Erasure of Women and Mothers from History

[27:38 – 38:23]

• Erasure maintains the status quo by hiding stories that show things can be different.

  "It’s been very intentional to make sure we don't know what else is available to us." (28:33)

• Ana shares stories from her first book:

  • Alberta King, Louise Little, Bertis Baldwin—not just mothers to MLK Jr., Malcolm X, James Baldwin, but activists and role models themselves
  • “When her son becomes this famous writer, it’s no longer such a surprise...” (34:25)

• The narrative that their sons “arrived fully formed” without maternal influence is a deliberate distortion.

• Notable quote:

  “It took until 2021... to say, but what about the mom?... There was so little out there about them. You couldn’t really Google them... Now you can, because I wrote the book.” (35:35)

• Ana’s call:

  “We have to continuously step in and say, hello, I’m here. My voice matters, too.” (37:50)

6. Real Structural Change — Actionable Levels

[39:39 – 46:29]

• Ana breaks down change into four levels:
  • Individual: Question received messages about silence/dominance—“Why have I been taught to be quiet or to dominate?”
  • Relationships: Move from dominance-based dynamics (with partners, children, friends) to shared power and open dialogue.
  • Community: Change happens locally first. Small acts—food drives, neighborly childcare—“disrupt the notion that it’s every person for themselves.”
  • National: Model community successes at scale; vote for systemic change; consider running for office or supporting storytellers who expand the narrative.
• Ana:

  “If we’re active in change, we become less overwhelmed by the magnitude of it.” (39:39)

• Jenna:

  “We say we want the village, right?... What if we start building the villages, right?” (48:05)

7. Cultivating Hope and Community Connection

[49:06 – 51:18]

• Ana emphasizes the joy and hope that comes from local, relational action.

  “We are very different from each other, but those differences are really beautiful and wonderful and we shouldn’t be fearful of them. ... I’ve noticed then the strategy of keeping us from seeing each other.” (50:18)

• Ana’s Advice for Overwhelm:

  “You become so much more hopeful, so much more inspired when you do something, when you help someone, when you stay activated.” (51:17)

Notable Quotes

• Ana Malaika Tubbs [04:31]:
  “Most of our lives, because that’s kind of an unnatural way of being, most of us have heard these messages, and the safety side of it is that we feel comfortable there, because that’s what we’ve been accustomed to.”
• Jenna Kutcher [13:50]:
  “I bet there are very few men out there who are asked that question.”
• Ana [18:10]:
  “Actually, we can go much further when we consider our collective power.”
• Ana [34:25]:
  “Martin Luther King’s mom... participated in marches and in boycotts before her son was even born. ... Malcolm X’s mom... was a radical activist... Bertis Baldwin... was a writer. ... The way it had been presented... was that somehow these men had just kind of shown up fully formed...”
• Ana [51:17]:
  “You become so much more hopeful, so much more inspired when you do something, when you help someone, when you stay activated.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 04:03 — Why do women fear being “too much”?
• 07:07 — How systemic history affects women in work and motherhood
• 11:55 — Why support and “the mystery of how we do it” matters
• 13:50 — Double standards: Men rarely asked who’s watching their kids
• 16:53 — Myths of leadership: Dominance vs. collectivity
• 21:47 — The founding of American patriarchy and exclusion
• 28:33 — The mechanics and cost of erasure
• 34:25 — The true stories of the mothers behind historical men
• 39:39 — Four actionable levels of change (personal, relational, community, national)
• 48:05 — Jenna on building real villages and shifting from numbness to purpose
• 51:17 — How helping others breeds hope

Resources

• Ana Malaika Tubbs online:
  Website: anamalaikatubbs.com
  Instagram: @anamalaikatubbs
• Books:
  • The Three Mothers
  • Erased: What American Patriarchy Has Hidden From Us

Takeaways for Listeners

• Self-doubt isn’t a personal flaw, it’s a feature of the system.
• Acknowledge the unseen labor, support, and community behind every “success.”
• Seek out erased stories, especially of women and mothers, to understand what’s possible.
• Change happens with small, local actions and through refusing to stay invisible.
• You can “build the village” and lead change—starting with your own relationships and community.

To learn more, support Ana’s work, and continue this conversation: visit her website, purchase her books, or follow on Instagram.