← The Goal Digger Podcast | Top Business and Marketing Podcast for Creatives, Entrepreneurs, and Women in Business
The Goal Digger Podcast | Top Business and Marketing Podcast for Creatives, Entrepreneurs, and Women in Business
BONUS: You’re Probably Ignoring This Platform (and It’s Costing You!)
00:46:10
With Brock Johnson and Jenna Kutcher
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- [00:02]
Jenna Kutcher
This episode is brought to you by Shippo, your one stop solution for shipping labels helping small businesses save up to 90 off retail rates for a limited time. Shippo is offering listeners 25 in Shippo credit when you spend your first $25. So shipping your first few packages is basically free. Years ago I ran a print giveaway for my wedding photography clients. Now this sounds simple. Send out a few framed photos as a thank you. But the response was wild. I ended up sending out stacks, orders and handwritten notes and boxes were piling up on my kitchen table. I essentially had no system. It was just me, some stamps and a lot of stress. That is why I love Shippo. It is designed for small businesses like mine. You can print shipping labels in batches, track orders, manage returns and sync with all your online stores from one clean dashboard and with access to discounted rates from USPS, UPS and FedEx, plus a free starter plan. When you only pay for what you ship, it makes fulfillment way less overwhelming. Head over to Shippo.com Golddigger and claim your spend 25 get 25 offer today. That's Shippo.com Gold Digger thank you to Cozy for sponsoring the Gold Digger Podcast. Transform your living space today with cozy. Visit cozy.com spelled C O Z E Y.com the home of possibilities made easy. Pinterest is not social media and this is where the biggest disconnect is. People often group Pinterest in the group group of the Tiktoks and the Instagrams. It's not a this or that. It is a totally separate camp. Pinterest is a search engine. It is like a modern day pretty Google. I'm Jenna Kutcher, your host of the Gold Digger podcast. I escaped the corporate world at the age of 23 with nothing more than a $300 camera from Craigslist and a dream. Now I'm running a seven figure online business that feels even better than it looks. All from my house in small town Minnesota with my family here, we value time as our currency. We mix the woo and the work and we are in the pursuit of building businesses that give us the freedom to live lives that we love. I've always loved turning big goals into reality and I'm here to help you do the same. This isn't just a peek behind the curtain. Come along with me and my guests as we tear the whole curtain down. Every week we tackle practical no fluff marketing strategies and host honest discussions on what works and what doesn't. Join me and my expert guests for actionable Insights to help you grow your dream business with confidence. Pull up a seat and get ready to be challenged, inspired, and empowered. This is the Goal Digger podcast. You ever have one of those conversations where someone just, like, grills you, but in the best way possible? Well, that's exactly what happened when I sat down with my friend Brock Johnson. He came in hot with questions about Pinterest rapid fire style, and suddenly I was in the hot seat like a Pinterest professor. Brock is a total genius when it comes to Instagram. But inside of this conversation, the roles were flipped. He was a student and I was a teacher, and we had so much fun geeking out over how Pinterest can help your content live longer, work harder, and drive results long after you hit publish. We originally recorded this episode for his podcast, build your tribe, but then I started seeing the YouTube comments rolling in. Things like, this is such a masterclass. Thank you so much for this episode. And this reignited the Pinterest fire. I'm jumping back in and Instagram is burning me out. This exactly what I needed. Reading those comments made me stop and think, okay, my people need to hear this too. So here we are sharing it with you today as a bonus crossover episode. And a quick little heads up, this isn't the last you'll hear from Brock. He's coming over to my podcast soon, too. And trust me, it is so good. So if you are someone who is burned out on Instagram, tired of chasing trends, or just curious how to get more mileage out of your content, this episode is your Pinterest crash course. And if you're ready to learn more about Pinterest, like, right now, and you missed my live masterclass. Don't worry, we've got it on demand just for you. Head to teachmetopin.com that's teachmetopin.com all right, let's dive on in and hit play on this bonus conversation with Brock Johnson.
- [04:24]
Brock Johnson
Hello, Jenna. Welcome to today's episode.
- [04:27]
Jenna Kutcher
Hey, thanks so much for having me.
- [04:29]
Brock Johnson
I am so excited for this conversation because, you know, admittedly, oftentimes in these convos, you have to kind of pretend as the interviewer that you don't know what you're talking about, but I know very little of what I'm talking about today. Today, we're going to be talking all about Pinterest, which is something that you've been jamming out on recently. And, you know, we'll get into all of the missteps and mistakes that I am definitely making. So let's just get right into it. You know, why should I or why should any small business owner listening today care about Pinterest? Because Je gonna. They're probably like, oh, my gosh, I have so much going on with Instagram and Facebook and TikTok and YouTube, and now you want me to add Pinterest, so why should I care?
- [05:09]
Jenna Kutcher
Okay, so first things first. Pinterest will never take away from the work that you're already doing. What it's going to do is elongate the lifespan of that work that you are creating, and it's gonna turn like minutes and moments into months. And so how I like to see it is this is not about adding more to your plate. It's about digging for gold in the gold mine that you are likely sitting on and also just helping your work work for you. And so before anyone panics and they're like, not another strategy, not another platform. I can't do it. All I'm asking you to do is reallocate one hour of your life each week to this strategy, and it's going to turn all of your work into something that's working for you.
- [05:58]
Brock Johnson
Gotcha. Okay, I can get with that. There's actually this graphic that I posted a few times on Instagram talking about the average lifespan, so to speak, of a post. And there's two things that always people freak out over when they see that post. Number one, the lifespan of a TikTok is like, they call it immediate decay. Basically immediately once you post it.
- [06:17]
Jenna Kutcher
Dead on the vine.
- [06:18]
Brock Johnson
Exactly. But then Pinterest is also on that graphic, and it's like the longest, biggest bar on the graphic. And people are like, oh my gosh, I need to get on Pinterest. So, yep. What you're saying, I'm already like, oh, yeah, duh. I've even talked about that before, but I haven't taken it seriously. So who should be posting on Pinterest? Who should be putting their business on Pinterest? And is there anyone who, like, maybe Pinterest shouldn't be for them?
- [06:42]
Jenna Kutcher
Okay, this is so good. Before we dive into that, I'm going to tell you something about the lifespan of a pin. So when we think about social, a lot of our posts will be dead within 48 hours tops. Right. That's pretty generous. In my opinion, the average lifespan of one pin, one singular pin on Pinterest is over 13 months. And that is the half life. So 13 months. So one year from now, plus your work could still be working for you. So I just want to paint that Picture. So who should be on Pinterest? So anyone that is creating content. And I mean literally anyone. It doesn't matter what genre you're in. Now, when I say content, I am talking about the stuff that Brock talks about all the time. Whether you are a podcaster, a YouTuber, an Instagram creator, a writer, a blogger like you. What I love about you is you'll advocate like, Instagram has a way for every type of creator to be creating on it. So I would say that your audience is a dream for Pinterest because they are likely creating content. Now, who it's not for is people that don't have a clear path. So you might be creating content, but you might not have actually figured out, well, what is the end result of this content. Right. We know general content creators who love, like, the dopamine hit of likes and comments, but maybe they don't have a through line of like, where does this lead to? And what is valuable in my ecosystem, whether it's a subscriber, an email subscriber, a sale, a call, whatever that looks like. And so if you don't actually have something that can kind of lead traffic into treasure, as I like to call it, Pinterest probably isn't the best platform for you. And the only other thing I would say is if you don't want to have your business a year from now or five years from now, Pinterest is also not the platform for you.
- [08:31]
Brock Johnson
Gotcha. Okay, so then where do we even get started with Pinterest? Because I'm going to guess that most people here are two things. They're. Number one, they have a Pinterest account. Like, they've been pinning things for the baby shower, the wedding, the, you know, the birthday party, whatever.
- [08:45]
Jenna Kutcher
Yeah.
- [08:46]
Brock Johnson
But they've never actually used it for business. So what are the steps to get started?
- [08:50]
Jenna Kutcher
Okay, so this was me. So if this is you, welcome. You're in good company. Let me tell you a quick story about how I figured this out, because it wasn't even me. So years ago, I was white knuckling my business. I was a wedding photographer in Wisconsin, and I had finally released the white knuckle grip on my business and said, I need help. Right? Those three words that are so hard for all of us to utter. And I hired my first virtual assistant. And I will never forget the first time we sat down. We sat across from each other in this small little Wisconsin cafe, and she goes, how's Pinterest working for you? And I looked her dead in the eye and I was like, okay, so let me tell you about my clothing board. Oh, it is so on point. It's so Parisian chic. And let me tell you about this house that I'm gonna build someday. It apparently has 20 bathrooms. And we were kind of laughing and she's like, no, no, like, how is it working for you? Like, for your business? And I was like, what are you talking about? And I had no idea that the pins that are on the platform are brought on by Pinterest users. I feel like people go on and browse it and they just think like, somehow these, these graphics are there, but people don't connect the dots that, like, you can import a pin onto Pinterest today, you can bring anything onto the platform. So the biggest misconception that people look at is one that is just for, like vision boards, right? It's a visual search engine. And so we love using it to plan out vacations and our homes and our outfits and all the different things. But what we're missing is that we can actually become contributors to Pinterest. The way that pins get on there is from people bringing them onto the platform. And so if you are someone who is casually pinning, which I love, I love Pinterest. I've never felt bad about myself after being on Pinterest, right, Brock, Like, I can go on to doom scroll on Instagram. I feel like garbage. Like, oh, I'm not pretty enough and I'm not doing enough Pinterest. I'm like, wow, this guy's limit.
- [10:43]
Brock Johnson
But feel inspired.
- [10:44]
Jenna Kutcher
Yes, you do feel inspired. But if you are someone who is just passively pinning, what I want for you to start paying attention to is looking at these pins through the lens of somebody put this on here, right? The creator did. Or somebody that was inspired by the content. Pinterest is not social media. And this is where the biggest disconnect is. People often group Pinterest in the group of the TikToks and the Instagrams. It's not a this or that. It is a totally separate camp. Pinterest is a search engine. It is like a modern day, pretty Google. When you go onto Pinterest, you're typing in, you know, how to start a business or how to launch a podcast or how to find a red dress with ruffly sleeves, right? We're using it in the way of a search engine, but oftentimes our brain is disconnecting it and telling us it's social media. And so if you're getting started, first, pay attention just to your user experience and acknowledging that somebody brought these things on. And then notice what you're typing in to the search bar and how you're leveraging it as a search engine. One thing that I love that you do so well, Brock, is you often break down what Instagram strategy is. So like when they launch a new feature, you're telling them like, okay, this is why they're doing it and this is their hope of it. When we look at Pinterest, what their goal is is to actually connect you with the end result you're seeking. They want to be the connector. They want you to click the link and actually go to the destination. They want you get the answers and the solutions. A search engine's goal is very different than social media. Social media wants to keep you on the app, keep you scrolling, whereas a search engine wants to be the bridge that connects you to the solution or the answer that you're looking for. And so it totally changes the strategy. And so a lot of people too, they'll take what's working on social media and they'll bring it on to the search engine and they'll be like, well, this doesn't work. But they're not actually looking at it through the right lens. I love finding pieces that feel timeless and high quality, but I am also all about staying intentional with how I spend. So I am genuinely excited to share that this episode is sponsored by the Real Real. That is the best place to shop authenticated luxury, from shoes to watches to designer bags and dresses. Now, I have been slowly curating those timeless pieces that I know I will wear for years, and the RealReal has become my go to. I actually just found a gorgeous Jenny Kane sweater that I had been eyeing forever at a price that I that didn't make me wince. They dropped 10,000 new items every single day at 10:00am and 7:00pm Eastern Standard Time. And every single piece is authenticated in person by experts. So you know you're getting the Real deal. And since it's resale, you're giving beautiful pieces a second life, which is so much better for your closet and for the planet. In fact, the Real Real has found new homes for over 37 million authenticated luxury pieces. So instead of producing more stuff, they're making what already exists new. The RealReal is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resale. With thousands of new arrivals daily. No one does resale like the real real. And now you can get 25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com golddigger that's therealreal.com gold digger to get 25 off, start shopping now@therealreal.com gold digger one of my favorite things about summer is spending time at the lake. And we are in the process of refurnishing our lake house slowly but surely. And I have been obsessed with cozy lately. You know when you first find a brand and you think, okay, they totally get me for me, that's cozy. Their pieces are beautiful, but more than that, they're practical. And as someone who juggles business and motherhood and maybe moving the couch for the third time this month, which Drew can confirm, I I need furniture that keeps up. Cozy's modular couches have totally caught my eye. They are designed to adapt whether your living room turns into a dance floor, a playroom, or your office for the day. I love that you can reconfigure them, add pieces as your space changes. And yes, they have washable covers for the win when you've got kids running around. They are all about being modern, adaptable and worry free. They truly open up new home possibilities with furniture that adjusts to your life and not the other way around. And let's be real, your home should be your way, reflecting who you are and how you live. Transform your living space today with cozy. Visit cozy.com spelled C O Z E Y.com the home of possibilities made Easy.
- [15:13]
Brock Johnson
Gotcha. Okay, so let's talk about then. How do you look through that right lens? Because you said a few times bringing these pins to Pinterest, whether it's you as the creator or someone else, bringing these pins to Pinterest. So like, what does that look like? What does that mean? How do we actually put that into practice?
- [15:28]
Jenna Kutcher
Okay, so what is incredible about Pinterest is that any user can upload a pin. And when they upload a pin, which is simply in most cases just a graphic, when they upload the pin, you get to designate where you are sending someone to. So you literally get to drop in any URL that you want. So this could be a landing page to grow your email list. It could be your YouTube channel, it could be your podcast, it could be your Instagram Instagram, it could be your blog, your website, your sales page. You can literally designate any space that you have on the Internet, which is pretty rare that you can point somebody in any direction. So the other thing about Pinterest is that it prioritizes what they consider fresh content. Now fresh content doesn't mean that Brock needs to publish a new video every Single day fresh content just means that it needs to be a variation of something you've posted before. So for this episode of your podcast, Brock, we could create 10, 15, 20, 30 different pins that all point back to this singular piece of content, as long as the graphics, the headlines, or the visuals are unique. Now, what this means in layman's term, is if you have a good set of templates in Canva and you have a slight bit of creativity in terms of how you name things or how you promote something, you can create an unlimited amount of pins that can point to one piece of content. This is why it's not about adding more to your already full plate or creating more content. It's about putting a spin on your content. And let me ask you this real quick, Brock. What would be easier for you to do? Go into Canva, leverage a template and create 10 different graphics, or create a brand new podcast episode, the show notes, the social clips, and all the things that accompany it before you move on to the next. Which one's easier?
- [17:26]
Brock Johnson
Yeah, obviously a hundred percent option A.
- [17:28]
Jenna Kutcher
Yes. And so what's amazing is, is that I bet your listeners right now are sitting on tens or hundreds or even thousands of pieces of content that could have pins pointing to it. It could be stuff that you made a year ago, two years ago that you could turn into pins to land on the Pinterest platform and reach their. So I feel like it should give you an exhale of like, this is really not about doing more. It's about making your work work harder with just a tiny bit of strategy and effort.
- [18:01]
Brock Johnson
Gotcha. Okay, so like, I'm conceptualizing this, thinking about it. It's a search engine, so it's not Instagram where I'm scrolling through reels. It's more like Google. But when I search something on Google nowadays, I get like a big AI response that's never helpful. And then I get like a bunch of links and URLs, and the first seven of them are sponsored. And then there's, you know, a bunch of. Not pretty. Right? It's just text. It's links and headlines. So essentially, is this just for, you know, oversimplification purposes?
- [18:29]
Jenna Kutcher
Yeah.
- [18:30]
Brock Johnson
These pins on Pinterest are the same thing as these links on Google, right? These, these headlines. The only difference is on Pinterest, they're visually appealing. Maybe they have a graphic or a video, and then they're still going to ultimately direct me to wherever that final destination is.
- [18:45]
Jenna Kutcher
Exactly. Right. And what's awesome is that every single word on Pinterest, because it's a search engine, is searchable. So if you take some of the SEO or search engine optimization strategies that you are likely using in other places in your business, that's all you need is just a tiny bit of keyword strategy. So it could be keywords in the graphic itself, it could be keywords in the pin title, it could be keywords in the description. All you are doing is helping Pinterest connect people that are looking for your work with your work.
- [19:17]
Brock Johnson
Gotcha. Instagram is a beast. There is no lie that every single week the algorithm changes, there's a million new features, there's so much to keep track of, so much you have to worry about. And all you're trying to do is scroll your business, trying to get more customers and make more sales on Instagram. That is why we created the Insta ClubHub to help you learn exactly what you need to know to stay up to date with the changes that are actually relevant to to you as a business owner and to help you grow your following and customer base. On Instagram, you can check it out. Best part, for only $7, you can join a two week trial for only $7, that's $0.50 per day for two weeks. And all you have to do to grab that trial offer is go to instaclubhub.com trial again, that link will be down in the description. But right now, while you're listening, you can just open up your Safari browser or whatever Internet browser you use and just go to instaclubhub. Do forward slash trial. Okay, so I'll tell you what I've been doing and let me know if this is, is a mistake. Something wrong, something could, could that could be improved. I use a scheduling tool to schedule all of my posts for TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, whatever. And I'm logged into my Pinterest. So when I'm clicking on the little icons up at the top, I click on Pinterest. So if it's a reel that's being posted on Instagram, the same video is being posted on Pinterest, but I'm not adding a link to send it anywhere. So is that incorrect? Like, would it be better if I was instead having that link back to my Instagram or like what's going wrong with my strategy there? Because I've seen like literally zero change or results from, from doing what I'm currently doing right.
- [20:56]
Jenna Kutcher
So yeah, okay, so you can keep doing that, but I'm going to add just a teeny bit of strategy for you. So we are big fans of set it and forget it, which is like my life. Like that is what I want. I want a crock pot meal and I want strategies that I can set and forget. So if the easiest way to get your content onto Pinterest is to keep that feature selected so that you know it's getting onto the platform, that's fantastic. You can keep that on. What I would recommend then is setting a timer or a reminder for 20 minutes at the end of your week to go on to your newly uploaded pins and to add a little bit of strategy. So that's where you could add in the backlink and you could add in a more SEO optimized title and description for your pin. Because oftentimes when you're using different things like Planoly or Tailwind or whatever you're using to auto schedule, it's not optimized for Pinterest in terms of searchability. And so if it's easier to just have it auto post and then you go in and tweak, there's no harm in doing that. And you're not like tanking your ability to get results. There's nothing there. Because again, this is the long game. But you'll add in that strategy. And so what you can do is you can decide, okay, where do I want to send this to? What is the best way to send it? Somewhere where it's traffic. But I can turn that into something I'm the biggest fan of. Sending it to places you own on the Internet, whether it's a website or a blog, versus sending it to other platforms where you don't necessarily get to capture any sort of data or any of their information. But what I would just say is then just go in on a Friday, look at the pins that automatically uploaded, jump in. You can even use ChatGPT and say, Write me a title for this Instagram caption that's SEO optimized and great for Pinterest. Drop those things in and designate where you want it to go. And that's how that content will work for you longer than when you just hit publish. Does that make sense?
- [22:48]
Brock Johnson
Yeah, that totally makes sense and that's very doable. I want to come back to a question around like graphics versus videos versus reels before I do that, this is probably going to be a quicker question. Are there any sort of account settings or profile things that we need to be aware of on Instagram? They, in Instagram fashion, they always overcomplicate it with like you could be business Professional, creator, personal, private, whatever. Is there anything like that that we should be aware of or make sure that we set up correctly on Pinterest?
- [23:17]
Jenna Kutcher
Yes. So that's a fabulous question, Brock. So you want to make sure you're a business account. So without being a business account, you don't have access to analytics and you also can't make your profile super optimized. So with a business account, you could have like Brock Johnson, Instagram strategy expert, as your title. And you teach this too, with kind of like optimizing your bio. It's actually very similar to the strategies you teach in Instagram. In Pinterest, it's just, again, every word that you're putting in there is searchable. And so you want to make sure the words and phrases that you're using both in your title and in your bio, are very clear. So very similar to what you teach there. You also just want to have a business account because that will give you access to the analytics. It'll also unlock a few features like linking to your website and different things like that as well. It's a super easy process. Once you do it once, you don't ever have to do it again. And so it just takes a few minutes. But that will switch your account from personal to business, which will then allow you to kind of think a little bit more strategically and have more strategy in place.
- [24:20]
Brock Johnson
Gotcha. Okay, totally makes sense. Back to my question about graphics versus videos. Yeah, you mentioned earlier having like Canva templates. You mentioned you said the word graphics a few times. Do graphics or, you know, quote unquote, still images perform better? Is that more of the norm and the expectation on pinterest than these 7 second reels that are being posted on Instagram?
- [24:41]
Jenna Kutcher
Yes. Okay, so this will maybe give your audience another sigh of relief, but I just saw a stat that it said, like, the average reel is taking entrepreneurs three to four hours based on what they're creating, which I haven't made sure. But for me, that's kind of true. It takes me a long time. But what we've done is like in my business is for every podcast episode that goes out, I created 10 templates to turn one podcast episode into 10 graphics. One graphic is just the title of my show, then the next graphic is the title of my show with my photo. Then the next graphic is a pull quote from the episode. The next graphic could be an infographic. Again, it's just slightly varying either the way that you're talking about the episode or the way the graphic is. One thing that's really great about Pinterest is that it's not necessarily the popularity contest that social media can feel like, because users on there aren't specifically generally typing in your name. Unless you're super well known, people aren't going onto Pinterest and typing in your name. So there's a stat that 96% of searches on Pinterest are unbranded searches, meaning that people are really interested in being exposed to new creators, new offers, new products who are. Which is a huge relief for small businesses and people that are just starting out. Like the other day I was looking for a red dress and I had like a specific vision in my mind and I just couldn't find what I was looking for. And it was popping up. All these different boutiques I would have never found, I would have never heard of. I don't care where I'm getting this red dress from. I just want to find what I'm looking for. And so what's awesome about Pinterest is for people that prefer to be a little bit more faceless in their marketing or they want to not necessarily be like the performer in their business. Pinterest is amazing. And so for you, Brock, you have such SEO optimized titles, which I know is strategic on your part when it comes to YouTube. And so there are so many different ways that you could take one YouTube episode and take different clips, use stock photos, plain backgrounds, talk to different segments of your audience. Like you could do one like Instagram strategies for small business owners, Instagram strategies for course creators, Instagram strategies for product based businesses. So all of these different ways are easy ways to create new graphics that promote and point to the same thing. So what I rely on is just templates. And here's the secret sauce of this. At this point, I don't even do my own Pinterest strategy. I outsource the one hour a week to an amazing VA on my team. Because once the templates are created, all she does is take that piece of published content and dissect it and break it down and she's ready to rock. And keeping in mind, if you think about it, one episode of your show turning into 10 pins. The average lifespan of one pin is 13 months. Now think about 10 pins being published spaced out over a period of time. Your episode that you're recording right now can be working for you in the next year. And I feel like that's just such a different mentality than social media where it's just like we're constantly creating and kind of Feeding the Beast. And so it totally transforms the way that you create content and also the way that you look at the promotion of the content you create. This episode of the Gold Digger podcast is brought to you Buying Mercury Modern Business banking that helps businesses like mine simplify their Finances When I first started my business, I remember feeling so confused when it came to my finances. I was juggling invoices, tracking payments and managing cash flow all across different tools. And let me tell you, it was messy. That's what impressed me about Mercury. 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Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com golddigger go to shopify.com golddigger shopify.com golddigger. Living six hours away from Drew's family means that we often opt to meet in the middle and get Airbnbs for our get togethers. We've stayed in some pretty unforgettable places, like a house with an indoor pool. Pool, which was so fun for the Midwest. One where I discovered Drew's dad is a pool shark. And even a place with a hot tub that the kids refuse to leave. We've even celebrated holidays in these cozy homes away from home. And it got me thinking, if you've got a few trips on the calendar too, and your home's going to be empty, you should be hosting with Airbnb's co host network. You can have a local co host take care of everything. They can manage guest messages, check ins, and all the details for you. It's not about turning your home into a business. It's about making it work for you on the days that you're not in it. 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- [31:32]
Brock Johnson
I love it. We are 100 going to implement everything you are saying. And so I'm speaking right now to the person in the future who I bet is finding this episode on Pinterest. And then now it's kind of like this.
- [31:46]
Jenna Kutcher
It's meta. I like it.
- [31:47]
Brock Johnson
Interest, Inception. Yeah, I love it. Okay, so you mentioned spacing them out over a period of time. And you know, I understand that if I space them out, then it's just going to extend the lifespan, so to speak. But in terms of frequency, on Instagram, we say the more you post, the more you grow. On TikTok, the same is true. Is there best practice? And I know you know Pinterest isn't like you said earlier, it's not a social media as much. It's more of a search engine. So is it truly the more the merrier with posting on Pinterest? Is it, hey, give them at least an hour so they can breathe. What's the best practice in terms of frequency?
- [32:22]
Jenna Kutcher
Okay, you're going to love this. Okay, so the way that I teach it is it literally takes one hour a week. You can log in and you can log out. So unlike the social platforms. And again, this isn't a comparison, it's just pointing the distinction. Unlike the social platforms where you shouldn't just like post and ghost, you need to stay on and engage and be in your DMs. This is truly a. You upload it and you can ghost because it's not necessarily about likes and comments and that kind of thing. So it's a very different mindset. So what we recommend is even if you just uploaded one to two fresh pins, fresh just meaning different variations. It can be old content being resurfaced, but fresh graphics to Pinterest a day, you can get really great success. So that's just one to two. So that would be about creating 14 different graphics in Canva in one week, pointing to different types of work that you've done. Now, the recommendation and what we do personally on my team, because we have such a gold mine of content, we have thousands upon thousands of posts and episodes and all the different things, is that we typically post around 5 to 15 pins a day. Now, when I say we're posting it, we're just scheduling these out to be dropping. And it's pretty easy to do that when you have templates to rely on and you can look at a piece of content and splice and dice it. In fact, you can go into ChatGPT and you could upload a transcript of this episode and say, give me 10 different angles for this. And it would literally spit out amazing headlines that you could use on these graphics. So the one thing to keep in mind is that if you have a piece of content and let's say brock, you create 10 pins for it, my recommendation would be, is if you have enough content to do this, which you do, would be to space out those pins at least by one week, just so you're not spamming Pinterest with all of these pins that are super similar, pointing to that one piece of content. If you can't do that, you're not going to be penalized. You likely just might not get as great of results. And so if somebody is listening, my recommendation would be pick three pieces of content that you've already created, that maybe performed well in the past, and create, let's say, three different pins for that. That'd be nine pins. That would be enough to get the one to two pins per day for the next week. And you could schedule it, set it, and forget it, and then log in again on Monday. So that's kind of how we approach it. There's really not a ton of rules. Like, what's interesting to me is it doesn't ever feel like you're like, gaming the system. I've been teaching Pinterest for seven years now, like, teaching the strategy. And what's incredible Is is like, I just rerecorded my entire program and not a lot had changed. Like, it wasn't like this massive shift from like, oh, my gosh, last year to this year. There's this algorithm drop and everything is not working. And so that gives me a lot of peace in the process. They also recently announced a verified Pinterest educators program, which I'm a part of. And I also just think that that is awesome in the sense of it's not like you're gaming a system. I think sometimes we can get strategies, and it kind of feels like, well, this could work for now, but it might work in a month. They're backing what we teach. And so I just want you, your listeners to listen with a lens of like, this isn't about gaming it. This is exactly how they want you to be using it.
- [35:43]
Brock Johnson
Gotcha. That makes sense. And that's so cool. Congratulations on that. I love. You know, and it totally makes sense that you are one of those verified educators because you're someone who teaches strategies that are proven to work and will work over the long haul. And it's not like a flash in the pan hack that's going to work for the next 12 hours and then, hey, if you don't see this episode the day it was posted, it's gone forever. But speaking of those strategies, I would love to, first of all, just understand this might be a very silly beginner question, but on Instagram, we have stories, we have carousels, like the slideshows, we have photos, and we have reels, and we have live. What are the different kinds of content that we can post? Are the different kinds of posts we can pin on Pinterest?
- [36:27]
Jenna Kutcher
Yeah. So the main one that is like 98% of what we do is just a singular graphic. It is just one single standalone graphic. Now, they have recently released like carousels, where you can have multiple pins. It's limited to five, so it's kind of like a series of five where people can scroll through. And then they also do video pins, but they're often no audio. It's just like a video clip. So a lot of times my team will take my reels that I post that are more like B roll, which we all know aren't working as great these days, but they can take that content and also post it onto Pinterest. There is also one thing that I think is interesting to call out is that there's Pinterest ads. And for most of my career on Pinterest, we've gone straight organic, like no paid strategy. Gotten results with no paid strategy. But one thing that's been interesting is as we've been using Pinterest ads more, we've been seeing that our cost per lead for our last launch was nearly half of the cost per lead that we were getting on meta, which is really interesting because we're not anti meta. Like I use Instagram and Facebook all the time and that's how we get a ton of leads. But it was wild because we were able to track the performance of Pinterest users all the way through the funnel, and those leads performed the same as our meta leads, but the cost was 1/2. Why this is important is I think a lot of people do feel slightly stuck with like all the eggs in one basket. Right. And if something changes or something's not working, it's not like you can just throw spaghetti at the wall without a cost. And so Pinterest ads are also a really awesome place. And what we also realized through Pinterest ads is that we were being exposed to people that wouldn't have naturally been in our world or in our ecosystem. So with Pinterest ads, you can also leverage the single graphics or the videos. And a lot of times we'll just take what's already working, size it. For Pinterest, which now Instagram is, is actually the formatting matches a lot easier with the more portrait style fitting. And so it's really not a lot of extra work on our part. They've done different things in the past where like you can literally click and get taken directly to the shop. So it's a really direct path for product based businesses where it literally takes somebody to check out. And if they have like shop pay or shopify, it's like, oh my God, I could literally buy something in about five, five seconds. And so they're always kind of trying different things, but the main one that we do is just a single graphic. And it's so easy to create a single graphic for basically anything you've already made.
- [38:59]
Brock Johnson
Totally makes sense. Let's talk more about some of the best practices for those single graphics. I'm just curious.
- [39:05]
Jenna Kutcher
Yeah.
- [39:05]
Brock Johnson
You know, have you found that portrait works better than landscape? Is there a certain amount of words or a certain, like, you know, should we have a human's face on it plus a headline plus a subheader? Like, what is the best practice? And I'm sure it varies person to person, business to business. But are there any general things to keep in mind with those graphics?
- [39:24]
Jenna Kutcher
Yes. So we only do vertical oriented Pins, because just like on Instagram, it takes a more landscape visually. So again, a lot of similarities there. Now, one of my favorite things about Pinterest is you can split test any idea, any headline, any graphic, any color, any font. You can split test anything with no risk or without feeling like you're standing on stage naked in front of your audience. And so it removes the vulnerability that a lot of people feel in desiring to test or experiment with something, because it's like on Instagram, you know, trial reels, I guess, kind of did that for us a little bit. Like, takes away the. The barrier of embarrassment or vulnerability. But what's incredible about Pinterest is, like, you get the analytics, so we've done it to like, split test best ad graphics or different things like that. The point of this is, is that there's no risk of having a bad graphic, so you're not penalized or it's not going to negatively impact you. It'll just give you data. But the main things that we found are a really clear headline. Just like you would do a hook on Instagram, how to articles do so well on Pinterest? When you think of a search engine, a lot of times you're typing in, like, how do I start a podcast? Or how do I leverage Instagram stories? So how to do really, really well? A lot of our graphics will have some sort of call to action. Again, very similar to Instagram, but just a little button that says, click me. The button itself is not clickable, but the graphic is. And then we often will see that our greater results comes from graphics that don't have my face on me. Because, remember, it's unbranded searches. People aren't necessarily looking for me. They're looking for an answer. And so the majority of our pins are not highlighting Jenna Kutcher. They're highlighting the content. And it helps you to connect that content to the person, and then they can get to know you in the content piece itself. And so, again, for people that want to take a little step back or not necessarily be the face, it's amazing. But I just love it because it's like, Brock, let's say tomorrow, you're like, I want my brand to be like orange and lime green. You could test that out and split test it using similar graphics with different branding and just see what performs better. And so it's kind of a good testing ground for people, too.
- [41:40]
Brock Johnson
Gotcha. I totally see how this makes so much sense. I see how I could do this in less than an hour, a week, I see how I could have someone on our team do this. I also am imagining I'm probably not technical enough to figure it out, but there are probably people listening who are technical enough to figure out how to do a lot of this automatically with AI, which is super cool. But I also know that there's even more strategy. There's those templates that you talked about and I know you have an upcoming webinar. So can you tell us a little bit more about that?
- [42:06]
Jenna Kutcher
Yes. Okay, so I just want to tell everyone, here's what I want you to know. To learn the system, it doesn't take a long time. Like, it is not this process where it's like 800 steps and you've got to figure it out. It's very simple and that's why I love it. So my upcoming masterclass is called Create Once Traffic for Months. How to lengthen the lifespan of your content and make your work work for you. And I love teaching this because at the heart of my mission is to allow people to have life first businesses. Brock, you are someone who I admire, who I know you have hobbies. And I want my work to be the least interesting part of my life. Like, I want to live just such a full life. And so as summer is coming and people's time is about to evaporate and they want to be spending their time in other places, let me show you the one hour a week strategy that can make your work work for you and that can help you, help you spend your precious time in a way that gives you true results. So if you sign up, you can go to teachmetopin.com that's teachmetopin.com, save your seat. I would love to just walk you through this process and help your work live on and create the results that you want it to create.
- [43:17]
Brock Johnson
Amazing. Well, we will link that up in the show notes below. But thank you so much for being here. Two final quick questions. One is last words of advice. Any parting messages, anything that you want to share with our audience before we part ways.
- [43:29]
Jenna Kutcher
So I would say define what your version of success is. And for me, I used to focus on what success looked like and now I focus on what success feels like. And for me, it's being able to step off of the content creation hamster wheel and have work that is working for me in the background. Like nothing is sexier. Going to bed at night knowing that my work is driving results for me. And so how do you want your life to feel? And the second thing Is is that treat time as your currency. So look at where your time is going and make sure that every hour of your time has an ROI that feels worth it to you. And for me, I love Instagram. I show up on there every day. But my real ROI is coming from the traffic that Pinterest is driving, leveraging all the things I've been creating.
- [44:15]
Brock Johnson
Amazing. And we will link up, like I said, the masterclass in the show notes. But where's the best place to get connected with you? Just if we want to follow more all things Jenna and check out more of what you're up to?
- [44:27]
Jenna Kutcher
Yes. Well, I'll tell you Pinterest, which you can buy me at Jenna Kutcher and Instagram is Jenna Kutcher. And I would love for you to also listen to the Gold Digger podcast. I gotta tell them our quick, funny story, Brock, about what happened. So Brock is going to be on my podcast. It's such a killer episode. I have been in the podcasting game for a long time. Hundreds of episodes, over a hundred million downloads. Poor Brock comes on my podcast and I hit the wrong record button. People, if you've ever been mortified, if you wonder if the greats still mess up, the answer is absolutely, positively. And I'm so grateful that I messed up with someone as amazing as Brock. So come and listen to his episode on my show because it's the second crack at it, and the second time was even better than the first. But I'd love to have you listen in at the Gold Digger podcast, where you can hear amazing people just like Brock.
- [45:17]
Brock Johnson
Definitely amazing podcast. And I'll link that up in the show notes as soon as that specific episode comes out. But that was a blast. And even today, you and I and I think it's important for people to hear not just about the forgetting to hit record or that technical issue, but also even today with this conversation. We've been talking about having this conversation around Pinterest for a while, and we literally planned this via text about 10 minutes before we got started. I was like, hey, do you want to do it now? I was about to go for a hike, but we changed our mind. She's like, yeah, let's do it now. And then I send her the link and here we are. So, anyways, Jenna, you are amazing. Such a light. And thank you for being here today.
- [45:51]
Jenna Kutcher
Thank you for having me. Okay, tell me you're not digging through your content library to start pinning. Like, I loved how simple Brock kept the questions and how tactical this combo got. We made Pinterest feel way less mysterious and way more manageable, right? Huge thanks to Brock Johnson for letting us share this convo over here on the Gold Digger podcast. He is truly an amazing human, a wealth of knowledge when it comes to all things social media, and honestly, just a really a really fun person to follow. If you're not already tuning into his podcast, build your tribe, go subscribe and make sure you follow him on all the platforms. This guy shows up with value everywhere and I can't wait to see him on Pinterest soon. And hey, if you want to go even deeper into the Pinterest strategy we talked about in this episode, come join me for my free On Demand masterclass Create Once Traffic for months. I will walk you through how to use Pinterest to extend the life of your content content and build a business that can run even when you're not constantly posting. Save your seat@teachmetopin.com that's teachmetopin.com and until next time, Gold Diggers, keep on digging your biggest goals. Thanks for pulling up a seat for another episode of the Gold Digger podcast. I hope today's episode fueled you with inspiration, gave you information that you can turn into action, and realigned you with your true north in life and business. If you've enjoyed today's episode, head on over to gold digger podcast.com for today's show notes, discount codes for our sponsors, freebies to fuel your results, and so much more. And if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed so that you never miss a future show. We'll see you next time, Gold Diggers.