Jenna Lyons on How Fashion Can Build Confidence & Empower You

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Good Buy" - Episode Featuring Jenna Lyons on How Fashion Can Build Confidence & Empower You

Release Date: January 17, 2025

In the season finale of The Good Buy, hosted by Harper's Bazaar editors Leah Chernikov and Lynette Nylander, fashion icon Jenna Lyons joins the conversation to explore the profound impact of fashion on personal confidence and empowerment. Through an engaging dialogue, Lyons shares her unique shopping philosophies, her approach to style, and personal anecdotes that highlight how clothing can serve as both armor and a means of self-expression.

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Introducing Jenna Lyons

The episode opens with Chernikov and Nylander warmly welcoming Jenna Lyons, renowned for her influential role as the president and executive creative director at J. Crew and her current endeavors, including her beauty brand and appearances on The Real Housewives of New York. Lyons’ reputation for redefining American dressing and her unapologetic approach to fashion make her an ideal guest to discuss the empowering nature of style.

Lyons [03:55]: "I'm honored to be your final guest for your first season."

Shopping Philosophy: In-Person Over Online

Lyons emphasizes her preference for in-person shopping, highlighting the tactile experience and the personal connection she feels with her garments. She critiques online shopping for lacking the sensory engagement that allows for better appreciation and selection of clothing.

Lyons [05:03]: "There's nothing better than putting something in a dressing room. You know that feeling when you come out and everyone looks at you and they're like, yes, you know it."

Clothing as Armor and Personal Expression

Dressing serves as a dual role for Lyons—both as armor and a window into her identity. She discusses how her fashion choices shifted after coming out, revealing that dressing authentically for herself rather than for male approval transformed the attention she received.

Lyons [06:07]: "The more I dressed for women or like my now myself, the more attention I got from men, which I'm very surprised by."

The Importance of Tailored and Bespoke Pieces

A significant portion of the conversation delves into Lyons’ passion for tailored shirts and bespoke clothing. She advocates for women embracing custom-made garments to achieve the perfect fit, contrasting it with the often one-size-fits-all approach of mainstream fashion.

Lyons [08:02]: "I have all my shirts made because I'm an unusual size. Once I had a shirt made, I realized it's something that's often reserved for men, and I wish that women knew they could do it too."

Lyons credits Ascot Chang, a renowned shirt maker, for providing her with high-quality, customized shirts that enhance her wardrobe's versatility and functionality.

Building and Curating a Personal Collection

Lyons shares insights into her extensive collection of jeans and other fashion items, categorizing them meticulously to suit her diverse needs and styles. Her disciplined approach to collecting ensures that each piece serves a purpose and aligns with her aesthetic.

Lyons [10:34]: "There's slouchy, clean, straight, rigid, faded—I have all different categories. It's important."

Stories of Regret and Learning in Fashion

Despite her impeccable style, Lyons candidly discusses moments of regret, particularly instances of impulsive shopping driven by emotional states. These stories underscore the importance of mindful purchasing and staying true to one’s personal style.

Lyons [25:00]: "I regret some of my purchases. I bought a really expensive jacket at Mew Mew once that was pink shearling... I was just depressed and did not need to buy that thing."

The Empowering Nature of Fashion

Lyons passionately argues against the perception of fashion as frivolous, sharing heartfelt stories of how clothing choices have bolstered her confidence in professional settings.

Lyons [36:10]: "There's nothing worse than having your shirt pop open because your boobs are big... When I get up there, I felt that confidence, and it really helped me giving my presentation."

Dream Buys and Recent Purchases

Concluding the episode, Lyons reflects on her dream purchases and recent acquisitions, illustrating her continued passion for high-quality, meaningful fashion pieces. She humorously mentions her affinity for luxurious items like cashmere socks, further emphasizing her dedication to comfort and style.

Lyons [38:00]: "My dream buy, which I will never do because I can't afford it, is a Berlinetta Lusso."

Final Thoughts: Embracing Imperfection

Lyons wraps up the conversation by encouraging listeners to embrace their unique style without striving for unattainable perfection. Her philosophy centers on authenticity and the joy of wearing pieces that resonate personally.

Lyons [37:33]: "I just don't believe that. Like, I know from my previous experience... it's important."

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Conclusion

Jenna Lyons' appearance on The Good Buy offers a深入探讨 fashion's role in shaping confidence and self-expression. Her experiences and insights provide valuable lessons for anyone looking to use style as a tool for empowerment. Through tailored clothing, mindful collecting, and a commitment to authenticity, Lyons exemplifies how fashion can be a powerful means of personal transformation.

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This episode of The Good Buy was directed and produced by Alexandra Gurvich in collaboration with Edit Audio. Executive producers include Samira Nasser, editor in chief of Harper's Bazaar, and Jason Eichler, vice president of video at Hearst Magazines.

Transcript

[Lynette Nylander]

Hi, I'm Lynette Nylander, Executive digital director of Harper's Bazaar.

[Leah Chernikov]

And I'm Leah Chernikov, the executive editor of Harper's Bazaar. And this is the Goodbye, where we.

[Lynette Nylander]

Invite celebrities, designers, models and tastemakers to talk shop. What they buy, where they got it and why it matters. So, new year, new style, new shopping endeavors. Leah, what is your goodbye of the week?

[Leah Chernikov]

Okay, so this one is a little random, but, you know, I have small children, so often my goodbyes are things that they love or that are going to make my life easier with them. And the other day, at the recommendation of a friend, I was with my oldest in Target. It was really frazzled. We were trying to get out of there. I needed to get peanut butter and he wanted a treat. And then we found this little game. It, like, comes in a tin. It's called Spot It. We'll play with you sometime.

[Lynette Nylander]

Fantastic.

[Leah Chernikov]

It's thrilling and it's so compact. It's like, even more compact than Uno. And you basically. It's got all these little icons on it and you just flip cards over and whoever spots the match first calls it out. And that's it. It's simple, it's super engaging. And now we play every night at dinner. It's had so much longevity. Usually kids get tired of things really quickly, but Spot it has really had staying power.

[Lynette Nylander]

Okay, New year, new game. Spot it.

[Leah Chernikov]

Spot it for the new Year.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yes.

[Leah Chernikov]

Do you feel like you need a new you or is it.

[Jenna Lyons]

No.

[Leah Chernikov]

Are you just building on the you that you are?

[Lynette Nylander]

I want to debunk the idea of New Year, new you. I think it's.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yeah, it's tired.

[Lynette Nylander]

It's New Year, same you elevate shit. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but I think that's what it's about. I think you don't wanna. It's not realistic to go into every year thinking that you're gonna completely change your style. I think it's much more a realistic expectation to, like, elevate one piece you've always wanted to wear. Color. I'm trying, yes.

[Leah Chernikov]

I love beautiful pink.

[Lynette Nylander]

Thank you. Cos you know, trying to wear a new color or integrate something new into your routine. My goodbye of the week is trying to get more into jewelry. I have an amazing friend, her name is Jean Prunus, and I'm wearing her earrings now. And, you know, I have so beautiful. And I have my eye on a beautiful pair of earrings to try and, you know, bring myself more into jewelry for the new Year and embracing that.

[Leah Chernikov]

I really love this for you. I think also I love it for me. Should we both do it?

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

Style goal.

[Lynette Nylander]

I mean, I don't think either of our bank accounts like it, but we do try.

[Jenna Lyons]

No, we don't.

[Lynette Nylander]

And okay. And maybe a more somewhat practical goodbye is Mew Mew. Have a new pair of sneakers. Anybody who knows me, I love how.

[Leah Chernikov]

Miu Miu sneakers are practical for you.

[Lynette Nylander]

I mean, look, you can wear them in multiple situations.

[Jenna Lyons]

That's true.

[Leah Chernikov]

That's true.

[Lynette Nylander]

They have a new model called the plume, and these ones are, I think are going to be a great kind of more sleeker sneaker as I move into, like, fashion week and back to commuting and things like that. So lovely. Our final guest for our first season of the Goodbye is someone whose influence can be felt in the very fabric of our culture.

[Leah Chernikov]

During her tenure as president and executive creative director at J. Crew, she became known as the woman who dressed America.

[Lynette Nylander]

In her post J. Crew life, she has launched a beauty brand. She is currently a beloved cast member of the Real Housewives of New York, where she has brought her own brand of New York smart and fashion savvy to the series. In a sea of sparkling gowns. She wore jeans. She's wearing jeans right now. To the reunion peeps, which was a franchise first. I should know. I watched them all.

[Leah Chernikov]

I know, I know. And denim to the Met Gala. Like, this is a theme. So please welcome to the Goodbye. We are so happy to have you. Jenna Lyons.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yay.

[Leah Chernikov]

Thank you.

[Jenna Lyons]

I'm honored to be your final guest for your first season.

[Lynette Nylander]

Final guest, first season. And I honestly, I can't think of anyone better because you've got the style DNA. The. The way to put an outfit together down. If anyone could write a rules to style, it's you. Have you. You don't have a book, do you?

[Jenna Lyons]

I don't, but it's interesting that you say that, because I have an issue with rules. I don't think there should be any. I think that's where people get stuck and then they don't do their own thing, which I don't want for anyone.

[Lynette Nylander]

Right. Your rule. One rule. Have no rules. Well, how would you describe your shopping philosophy? Like, how do you go out into the world and bring back treasures that you love?

[Jenna Lyons]

I mean, I think I believe in shop. I don't love online shopping because to me, so much of what I love about clothing is you can't really feel fit and you can't feel fabrics in the same way. You can in real life. And there's nothing better than like, putting something in a dressing room. You know that feeling when you come out and everyone looks at you and they're like, yes, you know it. And I do think that I understand online shopping and what it does, but it takes away a little bit of the magic and the experience and the appreciation for the clothing. I do like that you can buy anything anywhere, but I really want to touch and feel.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. Will you tell us a little bit too, about your approach to style? Just, I mean, like, every day when you go out in the world, how you use clothes to tell your story or to be who you want to be in that moment.

[Jenna Lyons]

I mean, I've always thought of clothing as a little bit of an armor, in which case it can be a point of vulnerability. If you're feeling hot and sexy, then maybe there's fewer clothes or more reveal. Or if you're feeling like you need a little bit of, I don't know, armor or something to give you distance. What's interesting to me is that, you know, I had. I've had a big shift in my approach to clothing since coming out as not straight anymore, gay. And what I realized is that the more I dressed for a man, the less attracted they were to me. And the more I dressed for women or like my now myself, the more attention I got from men, which I'm very surprised by, is completely different than what I would have expected.

[Lynette Nylander]

That is such an interesting observation. I once was wearing, like, a Batsheva dress, which is a, you know, New York brand. It's very demure. A very.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, it's covered up.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah. Conservative, I guess.

[Leah Chernikov]

And it's not like figure hugging at all.

[Lynette Nylander]

I got hit on the most.

[Leah Chernikov]

Are you just like, really feeling yourself in it? Because that has to be part of it too, right. Do you feel more comfortable?

[Jenna Lyons]

I think that I. This is my belief, and I could be completely wrong, but I think there's a telegraph that comes across when you are dressing to, like, get a man's approval. I find I settle in. And I'm not trying to get a date. I'm not trying for anything. I'm not trying to get your attention so I can just have a conversation. And I think it shifts the dialogue and shifts the actual force field, and it makes a big difference. And so I'm not surprised that you were hit it on. Like, there's something you become. It's just about you, and it's not about that desire or input. And it's amazing because I Think if you look at women's sexy clothing, it's like a lot. I remember it was so intimidating to feel like I had to do all the stuff with my legs and. And it's like. Yeah, it's when I put on a suit, I get more attention than when I wear a dress.

[Lynette Nylander]

Well, let's talk about that, because you are so. You're. I was googling images of you, and a suit is your thing. Like it's your tried and true. You kind of go back to it. You do different riffs. Like today you're doing like a shirt and tie. We should talk about what you're wearing today, actually.

[Jenna Lyons]

Okay.

[Lynette Nylander]

What's happening?

[Jenna Lyons]

Cause it's so great. Oh, thank you. I have all my shirts made. Cause I'm an unusual size. And once I had the experience of having my shirt made, I realized it's something that's often reserved for men. And I wish that women a knew how and it was something that they considered they could do. I take all of my friends to get shirts made. That's my thing.

[Leah Chernikov]

Where do you go?

[Jenna Lyons]

I go to Ascot Chang. They are a shirt maker. When I first went to Hong Kong when I was 22, it was my very first trip for J. Crew. And there was an Ascot Chang in the hotel that I was staying in. And I was like, this is the best thing ever. And the quality of the shirt, you can pick any fabric you want. You can pick any style they have. They bring out all of the collars, all of the cuffs. You get to pick your monogram. So I have all different.

[Leah Chernikov]

I know I was noticing it peeking out.

[Jenna Lyons]

This is my little. The crown with the J. But I have other ones. And you can do whatever you want. I love that. And. And it fits perfectly. So for like, for instance, like people who have like maybe big boobs, like, they're constantly worried about the shirt's unbuttoning. But you can go and have it made perfectly for you. But then it will still be perfect in your arm. You can have a French cuff. You can do whatever you want. And I think that level of bespoke experience is something that is often reserved for men, which I think is a total shame. So the shirt we talked about a little bit, the jacket. I went to an Hermes sample sale. I've never been to an Hermes sample sale in my life. And this year I had a big sale of my own. And so I got on a list of sample sales, which I was insanely excited about. Have you ever been to there samples?

[Lynette Nylander]

Now I have Not. I missed it.

[Jenna Lyons]

We skipped it this year.

[Leah Chernikov]

I thought about it, too, but I didn't. We did. We did do our damage.

[Jenna Lyons]

It's like, you walk in, they gave you a glass of champagne. There's classical music playing. Martha Stewart is over here looking at the cashmere. I'm like, how have I never been to this before? It's an experience. I loved it. Anyway, so I, of course, went to the men's section. So I got. It was marked down from some stratospherical price to a less stratospherical price. And then the jeans, I use this woman called Jean Genie. So she actually has. She searches for jeans, and she'll basically send me a box, and then whatever I don't like, I send back and she does it periodically. So these are my. I have all different categories. I have slouchy, no rips. This is the slouchy, no rip category. The tie, I don't know. I have 8 million ties. I don't know where this one is from. Oh, Drake's, which is also a men's company.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yep.

[Jenna Lyons]

And I think that's it. I'm not. Oh, the loafers are the row, and the socks are Tom brown. I think that's it.

[Lynette Nylander]

And the glasses.

[Jenna Lyons]

Oh, Dita. This is from. I did. These are glasses that I've been wearing for 100 years, but they stopped making them, and everyone would ask me where I got them. And so I finally was like, can you guys please just remake them? So if you would like to get a pair, they just launched. You can get. This is a special color. And then there's another. Another color. It's like a dark charcoal with a mirror.

[Leah Chernikov]

So there you go.

[Lynette Nylander]

That's very exciting.

[Leah Chernikov]

I have so many questions now. Do you.

[Lynette Nylander]

No.

[Jenna Lyons]

Go.

[Leah Chernikov]

Okay. What are your categories of jeans?

[Jenna Lyons]

That's a good question. So there's slouchy, like, clean. So no, like, just oversized, slouchy, boyfriend, clean. And that's a big category. And then there's slouchy, but, like, thrashed, which not too many rips, but they have to be authentic, and they can't be. So they're never fake. I won't buy. I don't buy.

[Lynette Nylander]

But you don't do a stretchy. No, she doesn't do, like, a stretchy denim. Like, it's real.

[Leah Chernikov]

No. But also anything that's, like, purposefully distressed, it has to be all done naturally. That's what you're talking about. Yes.

[Jenna Lyons]

But I also don't wear stretch denim at all. Yeah, like, that's not Something that enters my house. Like, I have a problem. I don't want skinny jeans on anyone ever. That moment has passed. And if they come back. Sorry, I just, it's just not my thing. And I don't, I don't have a problem with them. It's just not my thing. I just. And then I have rigid, faded, narrow, straight. But they have to be like faded, no reps. And then there's, then there's narrow, faded rip, a little bit tiny. And then there is what I would call like white cream. Like anything in the natural face that there's. And then, God, I have a lot. And then I have like wide, like oversight, like big, like oversized, soft. But those are harder to find.

[Lynette Nylander]

And these are all kind. I'm sorry, the shock and awe on my face. These are all categorized in your closet as such.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yeah.

[Lynette Nylander]

Okay, so they exist as departments.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

In Jenna's closet.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yeah. Yeah. But it's, I mean, it's important.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yes.

[Lynette Nylander]

How many pairs do you think you have? Drumroll for the number.

[Jenna Lyons]

I don't know. I'm uncounted. In my closet or including storage.

[Lynette Nylander]

Oh my God. Yeah, we have to do two.

[Jenna Lyons]

I mean easily like 65, 80.

[Leah Chernikov]

So somewhere between that in your closet right now.

[Jenna Lyons]

In my closet right now, probably 40. And, and then between storage. Cuz I sometimes they like a fit. You don't, you're over it. Cuz like there's high waisted. Before I was wearing things that were a little more slouchy, but there's definitely high waisted clean. I have high waisted. A little bit faded. I have high waisted black. High waisted white.

[Leah Chernikov]

Like do you do dark denim ever?

[Jenna Lyons]

Not as dark when dark. If it's real, if it's just, if it's just rigid clean. Yeah, that's the rigid clean.

[Leah Chernikov]

Okay. Okay.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

Rigid clean.

[Jenna Lyons]

Rigid clean.

[Leah Chernikov]

I, I, I just knew, I knew there were going to be.

[Jenna Lyons]

There's, there's definitely. But it's like, it's Japanese APC or vintage Levi's and that's kind of it.

[Leah Chernikov]

Okay, that's what I was going to ask too. I mean, and that makes sense.

[Jenna Lyons]

The Japanese, like there's okura. There's like o, O shore on, on shore or something like that. There's a couple, a few of them that I like. And then, and then Jamala.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah, the, the Japanese make denim like an art form. It's, it's, it's masterful how they do it and the salvage and the way that they can tailor them and cuff them I went to Japan and had a pair of jeans tailored, and it was. It's really like an eye opening experience. You're like, oh, this is what it should be like.

[Jenna Lyons]

Well, it's. Sadly, they bought all the machinery from the United States. Like, we let this whole tradition go. It's so sad to me, because all of those salvage machines were from the United States. Wow. There you go. I know. I don't know what we were thinking.

[Lynette Nylander]

Knowledge.

[Jenna Lyons]

Do you know where the word denim comes from?

[Lynette Nylander]

No.

[Jenna Lyons]

I'll give you a little tidbit. So denim is actually invented in France.

[Lynette Nylander]

Denim.

[Jenna Lyons]

Denime. Yeah. De is of. And Neem. Neem is the city. And from Neem. There you go.

[Lynette Nylander]

You don't just get a podcast, folks. You get an education.

[Jenna Lyons]

Right. That's all I got.

[Leah Chernikov]

No, there will be more.

[Lynette Nylander]

I think, like, it's really interesting you bring up denim, because I think about you. If I close my eyes, I think about you, and I think about your iconic style moments, whether it be the denim jacket with the pink silk skin. That was the Met Gala moment that I think about. Of course, you at the Real Housewives reunion for the New Roni because it was the first of the New Ronies, and you're wearing jeans, and that was controversial because it was jeans.

[Jenna Lyons]

I had no idea. If you look at the very first season of the Real Housewives, they're sitting in a backyard in Orange county and they're all wearing, like, bell bottom jeans. So, like, let's not forget where we came from, folks.

[Lynette Nylander]

I love it.

[Jenna Lyons]

It has shifted over time. Things could change.

[Leah Chernikov]

You're just returning to the housewife roots.

[Jenna Lyons]

Right. I was like, I'm taking it back. It was amazing to me, the way people responded for, like, you know, this is not appropriate, this. And I was like, who. Who wrote the rules? You want me to wear a sequin dress? I don't think that's why they hired me. Yeah. That's not what you want from me.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah.

[Jenna Lyons]

Not only that, but I won't. I won't wear all sequins.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

But, like, the Housewives have taken on, like, it's a real specific kind of look.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

And you stayed true to your style in a way that was, like. It was really kind of singular to watch in context. And I wondered how you approached it when you decided to go on it and decided what you were gonna wear for the camera.

[Jenna Lyons]

Well, I think. I mean, it's an interesting question, and I think they were very clear to me. They're like, listen, we're not. We're asking you. They wanted to do something different. They didn't want to create another version of what had been. And they were like, listen, we would like to have a more diverse visual for people. And also we would like the show to reflect New York. And so I think, you know, the show up until then hadn't really been that. It had been, you know, all a very similar age, all white, all kind of similar dress.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah. Even geography, they all.

[Jenna Lyons]

Exactly.

[Lynette Nylander]

They all came style.

[Jenna Lyons]

And so they were like, okay, we would like to have someone who is, you know, hispanic. We would like to have someone who's gay. We would like to have someone who's younger or older, like, all of that. And so it was clear to me that the idea was like, we want you to be yourself. So I didn't feel the pressure to dress like someone else. I don't. I don't want to wear head to toe sequins. And, you know, they would always ask me what my outfit was ahead of time. Like, we'd like to plan. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't really plan my outfits ahead of time. I'll just decide the morning of. And they're like, you're not gonna plan an outfit. I'm like, not really great at planning outfits. Not my forte. And so it was this constant. And. But I realized that by not planning and not telling them, it gave me even more freedom because they always wanted to know. And I was like, yeah, yeah, you're not going to.

[Leah Chernikov]

Sorry.

[Jenna Lyons]

It was actually really. It was easy, honestly. I mean, I didn't felt. I never felt pressure to wear sequins.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah, I mean, it shows your style kind of shines through. But you do wear sequins. Good segue. Because at your time at J. Crew, you completely revolutionized, you know, so much. You revolutionized American dressing. You revolutionized kind of the dichotomy and the balance of an outfit. I think about a cashmere sweater with. With a sequinska. Or I think about, of course, T.

[Leah Chernikov]

Shirt with a sequins.

[Lynette Nylander]

T shirts in sequins.

[Jenna Lyons]

I mean, the one thing that's nice is that when I was doing this and starting out, like the Internet kind of didn't really, like, that wasn't a thing, you know, and so it was a much more kind of like insular process. And we spent a lot of time just like playing with things. But it's funny because oftentimes it's all about mixing. And you mentioned contrast. It's not that dissimilar from like, Home stuff. So, like, sometimes it's not a physical outfit that will be inspiring. It's like a picture of someone's house, and, like, they've got, you know, a red velvet couch with a mint wall. And I'm like, red and mint. That's a gorgeous color. Like, it's not always the thing you think it's. Sometimes it has nothing to do with an outfit, and sometimes it does. Sometimes you see someone, you're like, damn. Like, I love old pictures of Charlotte Rampling and, you know, like, totally. And, you know, Paul Newman had, like, the most incredible style. And, I don't know. I still love. I mean, Cate Blanchett can do no wrong on my part, but there's always an element of something off and something that's not perfect. American fashion is very polished. You know, people go to red carpet. They have full hair and makeup and the spray tan and all the things. It's very done, and it's very done, and there's never that thing that pulls it off, and it's. I don't do very well in that scenario. Like, I always feel I'm never gonna look perfect. Cause it's just not who I am. So, like, I don't. I kind of want to push it and make sure that it's clear that I'm not trying to be perfect. Hence the sweater and the sequins and the denim and the satin. Like, that's a little bit of an acknowledgement of, like, I can't be perfect, so I'm not gonna try.

[Lynette Nylander]

Well, it's pretty damn perfect not being perfect. I think you're so good at, like, finding that thing that just feels like you. Another thing I constantly think about when I think about your style is this commitment to the most beautiful accessories. I mean, clutch bags. You have found the world's best clutch bags. They are in Jenna Lyons closet. That's the boutique.

[Jenna Lyons]

I sold a lot of them.

[Lynette Nylander]

Oh, well. Oh, at the sample sale. Yes. But talk to me about the accessories.

[Jenna Lyons]

I mean, I think it's a little bit of the same thing as, like, if I'm wearing a traditional suit. Like, I want the sparkliest bag in the world. I think it's, like, that appreciation for something off or sparkly. So if the outfit is sparkly, then the bag is tailored. But I also, like, had a chance to collect them over time. And that's, like. That's one of the things I love about fashion is, like, it kind of rotates. Oftentimes. The thing that is in the back of my closet that I haven't looked at all of a sudden is the thing I can't wait to wear, which I love, but I'm a sucker for a bag.

[Lynette Nylander]

On the Goodbye, the podcast, we love to talk about all the different buys that one, you know, looks for and looks to. And the very first question we always ask is, what was your first buy? What was something that you always remember that purchasing that fulfilled a certain part of you that was like, yes, I got it.

[Jenna Lyons]

I mean, I think I have probably two moments. I think the first time I ever got like, you know, I didn't grow up with money. My mom's a piano teacher. We didn't get, like, fancy. That was not in the cards. And so the first bonus I ever got, I think I got like $5,000 when I was, I don't know, 25 or something. And it was in the heyday of Marc Jacobs and those bags with the big buckles on them. And I remember going down to the store and buying a bag and a matching wallet. And that was like the thing. Like, I'd never had a designer bag in my life. I'd never been able to afford the bag and the wallet at the same time. And I remember walking out of that store and just being like that felt like, I don't know, I cherished that bag. I loved it so much. I just sold it at the sample sale recently, which. Or my whatever personality you parted with it. I did, because it's been sitting in my closet. I was like, what am I doing? What am I going to do with all of this stuff? And the best part about doing that sale was I was at the ballet one night and this guy is in front of me wearing a black suit with like sequins, like in C shaped pattern. I can't wait, scallop pattern. And he turns around, I'm staring at him, and he turns around and he has a bag in his hand. And it's a beautiful bag that's got all this sort of spark inlaid, sparkly, kind of Bakelite stuff in it. And I look at that bag and I'm like, I recognize that bag. And he turns on, he looks at me and he goes, it's yours. Oh, my God. And I looked the bag and I'm like, oh, my God. It was the bag that he had just purchased at us.

[Leah Chernikov]

That's amazing.

[Jenna Lyons]

I was like, this is why I sold these things, because I'm not wearing them. I can't wear all of this. And now it gets another life and someone, and then you Have a connection with someone else. It was the best thing. I couldn't believe it. He and I. He was excited. I was excited. He said, can we take a picture? I'm like, of course. I'm so excited to see this. And I don't know, it just made me really happy.

[Leah Chernikov]

That's awesome. And now hopefully whoever bought that Marc Jacobs bag hears this story and knows, like, how special it was.

[Jenna Lyons]

Some other girl bought Balenciaga bag that I sold and had my ID still in it.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah, I saw that online. Yeah. And I just love this because it really impresses upon, you know, buying. Well, I think women that love fashion get a bad rap. I think we're, you know. Oh, we just love buying. Look, these things go on, and they hold value and they hold desire, and people want them. And it's extreme exciting that somebody like that. That's still. That bag is still interesting and comfortable to someone.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yeah, totally. I also think there's, like, a sense of history and honoring, like, a craft. I agree with you. I think people get a bad rap for, like, collecting things. People are always like, how many shoes do you have? And I'm like, they're my friends.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah, but how many?

[Jenna Lyons]

I mean. Oh, I have over. I mean, I've sold quite a few, but I have easily over 400 shoes. But again, 27 years in the industry. 27 years of collecting. 27. It's like, if you wouldn't ask a photographer, like, how many pictures or how much film, it's like, it's part of my history. It's part of my experience as part of what I love. Like, it is.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah, it brings you joy. I always, like. You know, art always seems, like, intimidating to, like, start collecting. And people always say, well, you just buy what you love. But it's really the same with fashion, too. It's like that bag brought you so much joy for such a long time.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yeah. I mean, Hamish Bowls has tons of women's clothing, and he collects it because he. He reveres it. It, like, means something to him. It has a place in history. He loves the craft. He loves how it was made. It speaks to him, but he's not wearing it, and I don't think it matters, you know, and that's different. Whereas as a woman, if we collect it, we're like, it's too much. And I think, oh, right.

[Leah Chernikov]

You're always doing this calculus, and it's like, totally. Because there's a shame.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yes.

[Leah Chernikov]

Because of the patriarchy.

[Jenna Lyons]

Oh, for sure. We can go on about that.

[Lynette Nylander]

And I just Think, yeah, we all need to, to just free ourselves of it. I think of all the things that you could be addicted to. A shoe, a bag, what's the harm?

[Jenna Lyons]

Right. It takes care of your feet and gets you from point A to B. And maybe your feet are happier at the end. I don't know. Would you collect anything?

[Lynette Nylander]

I'm probably cut from the same cloth as you. I do have a lot of shoes, bags. I mean, clothes in general. Yes. And I'm a bit more specific in, like, there's certain designers that I really enjoy, like calm and juniors. Just. I remember when I was 15, 16 and I would go to the original Dover Street Market that was on Dover street and I had not a penny. But going around that store, it's like an art museum and you just look around and so I think I'm paying myself back for all the years I couldn't afford.

[Jenna Lyons]

Are you collecting?

[Leah Chernikov]

No, not in the same way. I mean, I love it and I do, I do tend to like gravitate towards the same things over and over again. And like, I'm like always looking for the same pair of pant and I buy them over and over again. Like, I love like a beautiful pleat front trouser. So I will look for them everywhere. And mostly the row makes the ones that I love the most.

[Jenna Lyons]

I'm sorry for your bank account.

[Leah Chernikov]

Thank you.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yeah, people cleaned me up, but I was also really happy about that.

[Lynette Nylander]

And it's testament to your style. I mean, so few people could get, you know, the New York girls out in, you know, en masse and. Yeah, it's testament to kind of your great curation. But to that point, is there anything you've ever regretted buying? Yeah, let's talk about that.

[Jenna Lyons]

Oh, God. Oh, God. I mean, I'm so. I mean, I don't know if I have enough time for that. I think I really regret there was a period, like the whole low slung jean period. Like, I just, I wanted to be a part of it. My body just did not want to participate. I had like so many things I never should have worn. And I also, like, I'm shaped not. I don't do well. And like that whole skin, it just was not good for me. And I regret some of my purchases. I regret some. I got. I bought a really expensive jacket at New Mew once that was pink shearling, but it had short sleeves. It was beautiful. I think I was just depressed and like, did not need to buy that thing. And it was very expensive and I think I wore it once I mean I have a lot. I mean there's, there's a long list. There's so many things. Most of the time it has been like therapy shopping that I have regretted. Where I've like been trying to fill a hole and then I just made a hole bigger.

[Lynette Nylander]

Impulse shopping. Shopping because you're feeling down, feeling blue. It's a big thing. And like you gotta be careful of it because number one, you overspend and number two, your judgment is clouded and you just aren't. Yeah, you buy things that you don't love.

[Jenna Lyons]

My worst, I would say the worst thing I ever did was after I had my son. It was. I didn't go shopping for like 14 months because I was just worked. I was at home and I was working a lot from home and I. That's a long time for me not to buy anything. And I remember Mickey, my boss, was like, we're going to Staad. Do you want to come? And we can just like. Because we were getting ready for the holiday season. It's always nice to go someplace that's in the temperature we're going to be designing for because you kind of, when you. And it's helpful to get your head out and just like see people dressed up and crazy out, you know, Staad. I'm like, great, let's go to Staad. I got off the plane and I was like, I was a rabid dog and I went to the Prada store and I found myself buying a full length gown which I have never ever in my life worn a full length gown, gloves, a beautiful little leather bag which I still have, and a mink jacket. I get back to my hotel room and I call my now ex husband and he said, did you buy a, a car?

[Lynette Nylander]

Oh, it was like flagged.

[Leah Chernikov]

I thought I was gonna say like, have you been like robbed?

[Lynette Nylander]

It was like flagged on the credit card or something.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yeah, well, so I made a little mistake in the. I was just delirious and probably so excited and I kept thinking that it was half the price, but it was actually two times euros. Yeah. Kind of got a little euro flip just. It was a little bit of mommy brain happening there. And so I. Yeah, he was like, what happened?

[Lynette Nylander]

Mommy brain. I like that.

[Jenna Lyons]

I was, yeah, so there was that and I. So yeah, I came home with. Yeah, I came home with a lot of stuff that I really didn't need. And I never wore that dress. Not once. The jacket that I wore, I wore at to Solange's wedding. And that was the picture that sort of got repeated over and over again with the shirt and the feather skirt and that little jacket. So like that got a lot of play. So I did not regret that one.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yes, that is a really iconic look. It is the. It's a. Is it a T shirt? No, it's like a white cotton.

[Jenna Lyons]

It's a white button down shirt. It was a Celine shirt actually. And it just had like these big. It had like a bib and a big open cuff. And then I just, it was chilly so I threw the jacket over. The fact that I brought the jacket was shocking. It was in New Orleans and then this feather skirt and literally they had moved the time of the wedding up an hour.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yes, I've heard about this.

[Jenna Lyons]

And up. We had been, we had been out and let. The rehearsal dinner was the night before. We had everyone, all of us, her included, had been up till four in the morning. And I remember and our room was pitch black. And I remember hearing my phone buzzing. And I picked up the phone and I'm looking at it and I'm scrolling through and I start to see a text from my friend Sarah who's also going to the wedding. She's like, did you see the email? And I'm like, no. And I look at the email. It's 1:00. They've moved the wedding from three to two. It's 1:00.

[Leah Chernikov]

Oh, you have 10 minutes.

[Jenna Lyons]

We are. I threw my clothes on and put my lipstick on in the car and threw my hair. So the fact that that's look has been repeated and gotten so much his pickup is kind of hysterical because it was like slap dash and run out the door. It was hysterical.

[Leah Chernikov]

Well, that's just like if you have the pieces, look what you can do.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah, I always say get pieces that work really hard for you. And then getting dressed in the morning is really easy. Like that's why I like love comm, because it's interesting in and of itself and then I just have to put it on, you know, that's great.

[Jenna Lyons]

Job is done.

[Lynette Nylander]

Jenna, what is something that you buy on repeat? Is there anything that you have a subscription to maybe? Or is there just something that you always like? A T shirt, a hoodie? It doesn't. It could be something.

[Leah Chernikov]

Well, the tailored shirts too.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah, the tailored shirt seems to be your.

[Jenna Lyons]

The tailored shirts for sure. And then there's these T shirts from a company called Everybody World. Do you know this company?

[Lynette Nylander]

Yes, I do.

[Jenna Lyons]

They're just great T shirts. And I have to say the Fabric is a little thicker, and the fit and the cut I love. And they're all made from recycled paper. Like, I'm just into them.

[Lynette Nylander]

Good for you.

[Leah Chernikov]

I know it is.

[Jenna Lyons]

For me, it's a really good shape. And they're good big or small, so they work when they're bigger and, like. And the kids love them, and I love them. And they're not really. They're kind of unisex, and I don't know. I'm super into it. They're great price.

[Leah Chernikov]

That's a good tip. We were going to ask before when we were talking about your shirts, like. Like, about getting clothes made for you and what that.

[Jenna Lyons]

That's.

[Leah Chernikov]

That's come up a lot on this podcast of, like, how special that is and why it's meaningful. Can you talk about the experience of doing that the first time and why you keep going back and why you gift it?

[Jenna Lyons]

I mean, I think there's this. For some reason, I think, again, it's only been relegated to men. Like, having something made for you. Bespoke is something that was always offered to men. And it used to be until ready to wear was something that women were, you know, had access to as well. And ready to wear has sort of changed the landscape. And it's interesting because women in and of themselves, if you look at, like, I remember from my days at J. Crew, like, imagine you are making a garment, and you have to fit someone who is in a size double zero and someone who is, you know, busty and completely, like, curvy, but you're fitting one garment. You're styling one garment. You're making one garment, and then you're grading it up or down. And the fact of the matter is that just doesn't really work, though. It's very hard. And so inevitably, you're having to carve out the edges. You're having to make things not as specific or really directly devoted to one type or the other, because you have to do the middle. And so particularly for people who are very straight or very. Who don't have, like, a normal body, like. And I say normal meaning what the industry says is, you know, I think. And the best way I can describe it is, like, there's this idea of fit and. And style. And I talk about this all the time because people don't really understand. Like, imagine you have a bunch of jeans in your closet, and some of them, they all fit you. Yeah. But the cut is different, and some of them you feel great in, and some of them you don't. And so cut and fit are two slightly different things, and you can't necessarily have them really optimized for yourself unless you get something made. And once you do that, you really see the difference and how it makes you feel. Like, I want my sleeves to hang out underneath my jacket, but my arms are long. I cannot buy a shirt off the rack unless I buy men's. And then the neck is huge and the armhole's huge, but I don't want a huge armhole because I want to put it under my Celine jacket and the armhole is this big. And so when you start to really get connected to fit and cut and how they work for you or against you, it is game changing. And it can make you feel just like far more. There's nothing worse than, like, having your shirt pop open because your boobs are big. Like, that sucks. And that's unfortunate because that happens to a lot of people and vice versa. A lot of the shirts have darts in them, and I don't really have big boobs. So then I get, like, a point. And so being able to have something made for you, it makes you feel special. Yeah.

[Lynette Nylander]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Like, not everyone can have things made, but at the very least, an investment in a really great tailor is paramount. Like, it's the best investment you can make to make something feel like it was made for you and make you feel confident and make you feel great.

[Jenna Lyons]

I also think, I think it's true that not everybody can afford it, but what I do find is that the pieces that I've had made, I wear 10x to the pieces that I'm constantly trying to find something that's, like, close to what I want. And once I stopped buying a bunch of shirts that were almost there, I now just wear my Ascot Chang shirts. And I probably per wear spend less because I can go to those all the time. And I pull them out over and over again. And I have a ton of other shirts in my closet that I've tried over, and I just don't pull them out because they just don't. Like, they're always in service of something that I never works.

[Lynette Nylander]

Jenna Lyons, you indulge your urges, your shopping urges, but is there anything that you dream? What's your dream buy?

[Leah Chernikov]

And it doesn't have to be clothing.

[Jenna Lyons]

Oh.

[Lynette Nylander]

Though it would be funner if it was. Yeah.

[Jenna Lyons]

Oh. I mean, my dream buy, which I will never do because I can't afford it, is a Berlinetta Lusso. Like, that's just never happening. But it would be my. That. That's my dream. Okay. But I don't know, clothing wise, I don't know. I don't know if there's anything I have ever dreamed about that I haven't tried to. To get. I love that clothing. I'm like, I'm pretty.

[Leah Chernikov]

You see it, you see it, you like it, you get it.

[Jenna Lyons]

I mean, unless it's like. Like, I'm not buying a vicuna shirt, like, or a coat because that's just stratospherically expensive. I do love vicuna, but it's. That's not in the cards. I also don't know if I really like. It's not about price oftentimes. It's about, like, you know, I love a Comme des Garcons and, you know, yo Jeopardy, like that stuff that's really unusual and special, but oftentimes very expensive. Yes, but I'm like, I'm down. There's never been anything that I. We'll see what happens with the new Chanel and when in Bottega. Yes, I know. There was one piece that I could not. I did not buy. It was a Kate Strappy harness in Sparkles. And I tried to get it, and they said, it's $15,000. And I said, thanks so much.

[Lynette Nylander]

And you said.

[Jenna Lyons]

She said, no.

[Lynette Nylander]

Very good. There is restraint.

[Jenna Lyons]

There's a little bit of restraint. I don't think my girlfriend would agree, but there is.

[Lynette Nylander]

There is. Okay.

[Leah Chernikov]

Well, I don't know. I was just gonna say I love this because what I think. What I think about a lot is that you were at your job for 27 years. As you said, buying yourself rewards along the way feels very, like, hard. Hard won. And now you're in, you know, whatever phase. But I just always think about, you know, sometimes young people expect, like, everything to happen at once. And it's. It's so nice to like, see a story of, like, you work really hard for a long time and you. You reward yourself and you get rewarded.

[Lynette Nylander]

But yeah, Tracy said that too. It's like she, you know, I. Why do I do this job and why do I do this if it's not to buy the things you like? And also, again, to, you know, to be in a position where you can potentially get stuff for free or get gifted. It's nice, but it's nicer when you actually buy the things that you really want and you desire and you invest in the. In the artists that make the things.

[Jenna Lyons]

That you believe in 100%. I mean, I think. I do think that, like, there's some weird connotation around fashion and that it's not. It's superfluous or frivolous. And I just. I just don't believe that. Like, I. I know from my previous experience, and I remember when I worked at J. Crew, people would send letters and say, like, I'll never. This one woman, really particular, sent me a letter, and she said, you know, I am a doctor. I am doing research. And I had to present my research to a whole room full of men. And I was very nervous and intimidated. And I was wearing this blouse that we'd made at the time and the pencil skirt and these sparkly shoes. And she said, on my way up to the podium, three people told me that I looked fantastic. And she said so. It gave me this confidence. And so when I got up there, I forgot about how I looked, and I didn't. I felt that confidence, and it really helped me giving my presentation. And so for someone to think that it's not meaningful, I think is just fool. It's. It's why, you know, when you go into a hospital and someone, like, does your nails and brushes your. It's like, it makes you feel good. Feeling like you're projecting a positive energy or strength or visual is, like, important, and it's not frivolous to me at all.

[Leah Chernikov]

Right.

[Lynette Nylander]

Yeah. It's honoring yourself.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah.

[Jenna Lyons]

It's care. Yes.

[Leah Chernikov]

And one thing I like that you said before about not being perfect and wanting to, like, sort of make that intentional is. I also think that's a nice message to send out, too. Is like, perfection is not.

[Jenna Lyons]

It's intimidating. Yeah.

[Leah Chernikov]

And it's not really achievable.

[Jenna Lyons]

So let's embrace versions of what we want to look like anyway. Like, I don't. I'm not as attracted to perfection or, like, polish. That's just. I don't know. It always makes me a little scared.

[Leah Chernikov]

Yeah. Yeah. The final question for the. The final question on the final episode of season one of the Goodbye is, what is your most recent goodbye?

[Jenna Lyons]

Oh, gosh.

[Leah Chernikov]

I have to, like, in the past couple weeks.

[Jenna Lyons]

My most recent. In the past couple of weeks. Oh, God. I mean, I guess it would have to be. I bought a pair of really great cashmere socks. Do you know Bag and company?

[Lynette Nylander]

Yes.

[Jenna Lyons]

They're, like, this thick, and I love them.

[Lynette Nylander]

A cashmere sock. That is luxury knows. No, it is.

[Jenna Lyons]

It is. It's also the kind of thing that, like, you don't always want. Like, I love giving them as a gift. Too, because most people don't want to spend the money on a really good cashmere sock. The good ones are expensive.

[Leah Chernikov]

A fancy sock is a great gift.

[Jenna Lyons]

I'm obsessed with socks.

[Lynette Nylander]

There you go. Cashmere socks. I think you should start like an Instagram. It's like wwjld. What would Jenna Lyons do? The socks, the jackets, the shirts, the everything we needed. The jeans.

[Jenna Lyons]

Yeah.

[Lynette Nylander]

Because you have all the answers, and I wish you could stay with us, but, Jenna. Lines. Thank you for being the best final guest of season one of the Goodbye that I could possibly think of. Your star rocks. It always has. And it's this kind of insight and knowledge about fashion that you just. You get. You can't. You just know.

[Jenna Lyons]

It's great. Thank you. I'm honored. Thank you for having me.

[Lynette Nylander]

This was Harper's Bazaar's the Goodbye. Goodbye.

[Leah Chernikov]

Goodbye.

[Jenna Lyons]

Goodbye.

[Lynette Nylander]

The Goodbye is a podcast from Harper's Bazaar. This episode was directed and produced by Alexandra Gurvich in collaboration with Edit Audio. The Goodbye is executive produced by Samira Nasser, editor in chief of Harper's Bazaar, and Jason Eichler, vice president of video at Hearst Magazines. It was recorded by Anthony Cuellar and edited, mixed and mastered by Ali Siwa Sa.