Investigative journalist Amanda Ripley believes good conflict can help solve deep political divides. But when it escalates beyond the point of no return, it becomes “high conflict”: a fight less about the issue at hand and more about owning the other side. In her new book, she chronicles how dangerous high conflict is to individuals and societies — and offers suggestions for how to dig yourself out of it.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Amanda Ripley discuss the ways in which high conflict deepens political polarization, how to create a better education system, and how to overcome seemingly intractable conflicts.

A written transcript of this conversation is available on persuasion.community

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