In one of his final extended interviews, which was recorded three years before his recent death, the late anthropologist James C. Scott and Yascha Mounk discuss the need to be vigilant about the ways in which states do violence to individuals and societies.

James C. Scott was the Sterling professor of political science and anthropology at Yale University. Scott is the author of major works including Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed and Against the Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and James Scott discuss whether we ought to give "two cheers" for anarchism, why the state is here to stay, and the ongoing crisis in Myanmar.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarit y .

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James C. Scott on The Perils of State Power