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Yascha Mounk and Mike Pesca discuss what real balance ought to look like in reporting hotly contested issues.

Mike Pesca is a journalist and the host of "The Gist", the longest running daily news podcast in history. He spent a decade as a correspondent for NPR, guest hosting “All Things Considered” and “Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me.”

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Mike Pesca discuss why many news organizations have discarded objectivity in favor of “moral clarity” in recent years; the recent internal upheaval at NPR and the limits to giving every side equal coverage; and whether journalists, academics and other experts ought to consider themselves “defenders of democracy.”

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarit y .

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Mike Pesca on How the Media Got Polarized