Vincent Lloyd is a Professor and Director of Africana Studies at Villanova University. His latest book is Black Dignity: The Struggle against Domination.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Vincent Lloyd discuss how his summer school seminar on black history was derailed by the language of “harm”; how well-intentioned efforts at contemplating past and present injustice can devolve into dogma and bullying; and how we might more effectively work to bring about racial justice.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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Podcast production by John Taylor Williams, and Brendan Ruberry

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Vincent Lloyd on What Happens When “Antiracism” Goes Wrong