
Hosted by Yascha Mounk · EN

C. Thi Nguyen is a philosophy professor at the University of Utah. His latest book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Someone Else’s Game. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Thi Nguyen discuss why metrics both help and harm institutional decision-making, how game design principles can improve classroom learning, and whether some aspects of human life are inherently unmeasurable. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Jung Chang explore what individual narratives can tell us about China’s past and present. Jung Chang is the author of Wild Swans: Three Daughters of China, Empress Dowager Cixi, and Big Sister, Little Sister, Red Sister, as well as Mao: The Unknown Story, with her husband, Jon Halliday. Her latest book is Fly, Wild Swans: My Mother, Myself and China. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Jung Chang discuss how personal stories illuminate broader historical truths, the culture of mistrust that has characterized Chinese society across centuries, and why young Chinese people today are increasingly rejecting marriage and romantic relationships. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ruud Koopmans is Research Director at the WZB Berlin Social Science Center and Professor of Sociology and Migration Research at Humboldt University Berlin. He is also a member of the German Federal government’s Advisory Committee on Islamism. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Ruud Koopmans discuss the role of cultural difference in integration, how selective versus non-discretionary migration systems shape integration outcomes, and whether generous welfare states help or hinder immigrant integration. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Martin Wolf also discuss the impact of artificial intelligence on the economy—and humanity. Martin Wolf is Associate Editor and Chief Economics Commentator at the Financial Times, London. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Martin Wolf discuss what Trump’s pick of Kevin Warsh could mean for the Fed, whether “TACO” (Trump Always Chickens Out) is a sustainable pattern, and how Trump’s economic ambitions compare to those of truly revolutionary leaders. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Francis Fukuyama look back at this year—and make predictions for 2026. Francis Fukuyama is the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford University. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. He is also the author of the “Frankly Fukuyama” column, carried forward from American Purpose, at Persuasion. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Francis Fukuyama discuss why Donald Trump is flagging, whether American institutions are resilient enough to survive, and the future of Ukraine. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kelly Born is the founding director of the Packard Foundation’s Democracy, Rights, and Governance initiative. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Kelly Born explore how AI could impact democracy and society—and how to respond. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dan Wang is a research fellow at Stanford’s Hoover Institution and author of Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Dan Wang explore the conflict between the United States as a society of lawyers and China as a society of engineers, what this means for their relationship, and why the two countries are more similar than they may first appear. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Richard Aldous, Sabina Ćudić, and Damon Linker join Yascha Mounk to dissect this week’s news. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk, Richard Aldous, Sabina Ćudić, and Damon Linker explore the future of the Democratic Party, from midterm predictions to the unstoppable rise of Zohran Mamdani, the impact of the ongoing government shutdown, and the recent meeting between Donald Trump and Xi Jinping. Richard Aldous is Eugene Meyer Distinguished Professor of History at Bard. His latest books are The Dillon Era and Schlesinger. He hosts Persuasion’s books and ideas podcast, Bookstack. Sabina Ćudić is elected member of the National Parliament of Bosnia and Herzegovina, vice president of the Foreign Relations Committee, vice president of the European liberals in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg, and the president of Naša stranka, a progressive, social-liberal political party. Damon Linker is a senior lecturer in political science at the University of Pennsylvania and writes the subscription newsletter “Notes from the Middleground” at Substack. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Geoffrey Hinton discuss how AI works—and why it’s a risk. Geoffrey Hinton is a cognitive psychologist and computer scientist known as the “godfather of AI.” He was awarded the 2024 Nobel Prize in Physics, along with John Hopfield. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Geoffrey Hinton discuss what neuroscience teaches us about AI, how humans and machines learn, and the existential risks of AI. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Francis Fukuyama, Mona Charen, and Yascha Mounk dissect this week’s news. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk, Francis Fukuyama and Mona Charen discuss Trump’s latest actions, from demolishing the East Wing of the White House to demanding compensation from the Justice Department; whether the Trump administration’s bombing boats in Venezuela might lead to further military action; and the link between social media and populism. Francis Fukuyama is the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford University. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. He is also the author of the “Frankly Fukuyama” column, carried forward from American Purpose, at Persuasion. Mona Charen, syndicated columnist and author, is Policy Editor of The Bulwark and host of two weekly podcasts: The Mona Charen Show and Just Between Us. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices