← The Good Ship Illustration
The Good Ship Illustration
An interview with Lisa Congdon - consistency and finding your creative voice
00:28:15
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- [00:00]
A
Sa.
- [00:26]
Hello, Lisa. Thank you so much for coming on the Good Ship Illustration podcast. It's so good to have you with us today.
- [00:32]
B
Thank you. It's so good to be here.
- [00:34]
A
The reason I got in touch with you was I saw your reel about consistency, and it was your calendars, and you had, I think you said, like 10 years worth, and I was just like, that is amazing. That level of consistency is so inspiring. My question is, have you always naturally been that consistent and once you decide something, do you just keep going with it?
- [00:56]
B
Yeah. I always describe myself as somebody who, once I figure out that I enjoy something or that other people enjoy something I make, I tend to go all in. And it's not just with my artwork. It's everything in my life. If you were to come into my house, I would take you downstairs and you would see the collection of ceramic mushrooms and the collection of tigers from all over the world. Not real ones, obviously. And in my studio, I have, like this entire case that's a collection of, like, office and school supplies from mostly vintage. So it's like, when I'm really interested in something, I hyper focus on it and do it a lot. I'm an athlete, so I love cycling. I don't just cycle once a week. I cycle five times a week. I'm one of those people. The problem is I have lots of interests, so sometimes I get a little overwhelmed. But it's definitely something that's part of my personality, and I think it's really helped me in my illustration career because when there's this marriage of, oh, I really enjoy making this thing or this kind of art, and I see that other people are also interested in it, I get super motivated to do it. And the calendars are a great example of that. Like, I released my first calendar, I think, in 2016, and I remember I was really nervous because at the time, this is hard to believe now, because all I do is manufacture products to sell. And I think the calendar was like the first thing I self produced ever, maybe aside from a handful of note cards. And I was so nervous that no one was going to buy it. And in order to get a good price, you have to order at least 400. And I was like, are 400 people actually going to buy this calendar? But it did really well. And then every year since then, I've just continued to do it and now I sell thousands. And I'm really lucky. I have a team. So I don't touch the calendars anymore. But since day one, we've had them printed at the same place here in Portland, Oregon, in the usa, where I live. So there's a print house here in Portland that was recommended to me when I did my first calendar. And we've been working with them ever since. The colors are really beautiful and they're just very reliable. We used to package all of them in these sleeves, and we had special envelopes for shipping them. And now we don't use a lot of extra packaging just to save on plastic, but we do everything ourselves in house.
- [03:13]
A
And I think for a lot of people who are big fans of your work, there might be maybe people that see your success and what you've achieved and not really see the years and decades, actually now, of consistency and work that you've put in. So when it was your early days, I know you've mentioned on other interviews that I've heard that in that initial phase, you were struggling, things hadn't taken off. It wasn't fully supporting you yet. How did you survive that bit? With illustrators, if you can't make it through that bit, you go back to whatever it was and you don't make a success of it. Yeah, I'd love to hear.
- [03:49]
B
There's so many things happening in that bit of time for a lot of people. Not everyone. Some people start their illustration career with a fully developed artistic voice, but for most people, you're still trying to figure out who you are as an artist. So you're navigating that. You're navigating, not making very much money and trying to support yourself. You're navigating, trying to get people to even pay attention to what you do. It's a hard time. It is the time when I think most people give up, and it's a really hard thing to work through. So I'm not going to make it sound easy. If you do these five things, you will get through that bit of time. That's very hard. But for me, I was really lucky because when I started my illustration career, I was in my mid to late 30s. I was like, 38 or 39 years old. And so I had already had all of these years of work experience. And so I understood, worked, really. I have adhd, and so I have worked really hard to try to organize myself over the years. So I'm like this weird marriage of somebody who has focus problems, but then also somebody who is a Capricorn and really likes meeting deadlines and making sure my clients are happy. So I've had to really learn how to manage my time in order to be true to that part of myself that's more of a people pleaser. I spent a lot of years working for a nonprofit organization as my previous career. And I spent a lot of time learning how to be organized, learning how to manage my time, learning how to communicate with people that I was working with. And I had really, fortunately for me, honed all of those skills by the time I started to try to make a living as an artist. I think that's a hard part for a lot of people. If you're starting in your early 20s, fresh out of school, you may not have a lot of work or life experience, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But I think managing all of the parts of your career, promoting yourself, finishing work, putting it out into the world, all feels overwhelming. And for me, that was the part that I actually was really good at. And that allowed me to focus more on doing a lot of drawing. I think another thing about my personality that helped in the beginning is that I'm not a perfectionist and I was really willing to make mediocre work. I probably did not recognize it was mediocre at the time. At the time, I probably thought it was amazing. You aren't as conscious of the growth in your work when you're making it. It's like everybody can relate to looking at something from five years ago or 10 years ago and cringing a little bit, oh, I drew that thing. But if I did it now, I would make it so much better. But when you're in that moment, you're not necessarily aware of it. I got really good at making stuff and putting it out into the world. My career started around the time that Instagram was becoming a space for people to share the stuff they were making. There were blogs and things, but Instagram really was the space where I started, started to share my work publicly and I'd just make stuff and put it on Instagram, even stuff that was in progress. And of course, at the time, I didn't have half a million followers, so it felt a little bit less daunting. And I'm not one of those people who, oh, this has to look perfect before I share it. In fact, I think the imperfection in my work is what makes it special. And I think that's true for other people too. I just have a personality trait, like, I'm just not a perfectionist. So I'm willing to share stuff that's not perfect. And I think that helped propel my career. It was really nerve wracking, I think, financially, eventually in the first five years of my career, I met the person I'm now married to. We moved in together. Sharing expenses with somebody was really helpful because there were times when I wasn't making a lot of money. I had signed with an agent and I was starting to be really productive, but I wasn't selling a lot of work. Lastly, one thing I really did well from the beginning was like diversified my income streams. So I started an Etsy shop. I'm no longer on Etsy, but Etsy was the place at that time where people would sell their illustrations on things like prints. And I like started an Etsy shop. I started doing illustration commissions, I was doing pet portraits, I was doing anything I could to make a buck. I understood that if I put all my eggs in one basket, I wasn't necessarily going to be successful. But if I put my reach in different places, I would eventually find the ones that stuck. And that's definitely ended up being true. I'm. I still do lots of different things just at a bigger scale, but I think that helped me. It's a hard time and it takes a lot of creativity to figure out how you're going to make it sometimes. Yeah.
- [08:40]
A
And that's what in the good ship role is reassuring people. If you are an illustrator and you have a creative brain, then that is your superpower. You can use that creative brain to think of multiple income streams. And I think when you're in that scrappy place like you talked about how you worded it, like any way to make a book that's like the genius ideas come from that and you don't have to do any idea forever.
- [09:00]
B
I did a couple of projects mid career where I did these drawing a day projects and 365 days of hand lettering. I remember I did this one project called A Collection a Day. I photographed one of my collections every day for a year. And at various times I would draw imaginary collections. And I remember telling my now wife that I was going to do this project every day. And this was back in Gosh, 2010 or 11, it was a really long time ago. And I remember she was like, you're.
- [09:31]
A
Nuts, what's wrong with you?
- [09:33]
B
And I was like, trust me, this is going to lead to something. I just know it. And sure enough, it did. It got me on people's radars and the project went viral with this weird idea that I had. Not necessarily thinking this is how I'm going to make money, but how I'm going to get some eyes on me so that I could eventually make Money. I was willing to go with the crazy idea because I had faith that the idea was a good idea. And eventually I made a book out of it and did make a few bucks off the book and. And just got some notoriety. Is that that person who takes photographs of her weird collections?
- [10:09]
A
And you mentioned an agent. Do you still have an agent or you.
- [10:12]
B
Yeah. I started off with Lilla Rogers, who's a pretty well known illustration agent. She was an amazing mentor to me. She was my very first agent and she took a huge chance on me because I hadn't gone to art school. I was self taught. My portfolio was pretty small at the time. But I think she saw something in me and I think she also was like, oh, this person is already mature as a person. She's going. Because I was in my early 40s at the time and she's going to be a responsible person for me to manage. We worked together for a number of years and then I had a number of years where I was on my own. At that point I had started to build a following and a lot of the work that was coming my way was coming directly to me and not through my agent. And so Lilla and I decided to part ways because it didn't make sense for me at the time to have an agent who took a percentage of the money from the work that I was doing. I had a number of years where I managed all my projects myself. I signed with another agent for a few years that didn't really work out. And then about a year ago I started working with Totally reps with Kat who runs that agency. What I recognized after I was on my own for a while is that that was also the time that I was starting to get some big brand collaborations and jobs where I knew I needed to ask for a decent amount of money, but I had no idea how much or what the industry standard was. And then I was like, oh, I really do think I need an agent again. Because I needed assurance that I was being treated fairly in those relationships and be making the money that I deserve to make. And I didn't really know very much about pricing. I think pricing is a really hard thing for a lot of artists to figure out. And I've been doing this for almost 20 years and I still get really flummoxed sometimes about what to charge. I really appreciate having another brain to bounce ideas off of. Piece of advice. I give a lot to artists when you don't know and when they haven't already presented their budget. A lot of times clients will email you and say, we want you to do this job and here's how much it pays. I appreciate that when it happens, because then you can be like, okay, how do I feel about this? Do I want to ask for more money? Is this so low that even with negotiation, we're never going to get to where we want to go? Asking a client to share their budget, especially when you're not sure, is always a good tactic, especially if you don't have an agent to help you navigate that scenario. I also just finished an illustration job last month. That was one of the hardest jobs I've ever done. And I've been really lucky in my career to have so many amazing clients. Literally 99% of the art directors and creative directors that I've worked with over the years have just been lovely people. Even if the job is hard, the communication's been really wonderful and I just feel very grateful. Recent job I did was not good. It was really hard, and the client and I did not see eye to eye on a lot of things. I didn't realize this until we had gotten going, so it was too late to back out. My agent really helped me to navigate that. She helped me process how I was feeling. She showed up to conversations and got to be the bad cop so that I didn't have to do that. I think having an agent can be so useful in those situations. So I feel really lucky.
- [13:44]
A
Solid advice. Yeah, I would love to know. With Instagram, you talked about make things, share things. I love that simplicity. But how does your relationship to social media feel now, at the end of 2025, where we are now?
- [13:57]
B
I was doing a written interview yesterday, and the person was interviewing me about building community and an audience. For many years, it was on Instagram. I joined social media, namely Instagram, at a time when my work was really Instagram friendly. Before, when it really was like a linear sort of like you would see things in your feed in the order that people were put like that was why it was called Instagram. Literally, the second somebody posted something, you would see it in your feed. And my work, especially once you could share posts in stories, became very Instagram friendly because I make a lot of work that is very graphic in terms of color. It's typically bright and cheery and has messages. Not all of my work fits that description, but a lot of it does. And that's the kind of work that people share. My work was getting shared a lot and I was growing my following as a result. Even when the algorithm changed, I was still being shared a lot because the more your work is liked or commented on, the more Instagram shares it with other people, and so they share what's already popular. That really worked for me until it didn't. Fortunately, I was able to grow a following that's pretty big during that period of time when the Instagram algorithm and my work were well matched. I remember my following grew so quickly, and there were definitely some hard parts about that, but it was overall really great, and I was able to start making a living from making products and posting about the things I was making on Instagram. I'm a storyteller, so I was telling a lot of stories through my art, and it really was this kind of magical period of time. And then the algorithm changed again to favor video. Deeply do not identify as a content creator. I deeply identify as an artist and an illustrator. And while I occasionally make videos, it's not something that I'm comfortable doing or really care to do. I still post the stuff that I like to post and have decent engagement, depending on what I post. But my following has flattened in the last five years because I'm not playing the game so much and I don't really want to. I've tried. I've been like, okay, this week I'm gonna make three videos or even one video, and I dread it. And I either don't do it because I don't care about being in front of the camera, I don't actually like it very much, or if I do, really stresses me out. And I've gotten okay with using social media for the stuff that I like to use it for. And I have a lot of gratitude that I was able to grow my following during a time when Instagram favored the stuff that I liked to make and post. I do get overwhelmed by Instagram by the amount of content that's on there. Sometimes I see artists who make these amazing videos and post things that are so cool, and I think I should be doing that. Or maybe I'm a little bit of a failure because I'm not doing that. And then I remember, oh, you don't want to do that. That's not something that you find joy in. And that's okay. I'm still managing to run a business and promote the stuff that I'm up to on Instagram, and I'm really grateful for that. While I want to learn more about how to use video and I have a new marketing person who's helping me, it's not really something that I want to spend too much time doing so I feel like Instagram's a really fraught place for me because I love it and I have a lot of gratitude for it because it's the place that I built my community and my audience. But it's changed so much and it's not a place that I feel as much at home anymore.
- [18:00]
A
Yeah, it's changed a lot. And I wonder. So you've mentioned that it doesn't feel as good. Is there somewhere now that has that good feeling that gets you excited like Instagram did in the olden days?
- [18:12]
B
No. Occasionally I feel Instagram makes me feel good. Every now and again I'll create a piece of art and do some storytelling on there. I have the same kind of feeling of, oh, this is really resonating for people and that feels really good. But there is a lot of pressure. There was a period in the beginning of this year where I wasn't really posting regularly. I'm really trying to use Instagram again, even if it's just in ways that are comfortable for me to post more often. I'm back in the habit. But I stopped for a while because I was burned out and tired of comparing myself to other people. I think a lot of people imagine, oh, Lisa, she's made it. How can this possibly stress her out? But it still stresses me out and I still do a fair bit of oh, I should be doing this or that. And then I remind myself, no, actually, do what brings you joy and the rest will follow. To be honest with you, if I could have a career where I wasn't online at all, I would be really happy.
- [19:08]
A
I recently experimented and got It's a smartphone, but it's like a dumb ified phone. So it's got this operating system where you literally cannot install any social media. You can't even go on Reddit. It was so good when I was using it. But I need Instagram for work. I need to post things. And the faff and the hassle of, oh, time to get my other phone out and do the other. It was so clunky and I couldn't quite get it to work. But I'm gonna persevere because like, the more time I spend on Instagram and social media, the more anxious I feel. Yeah, you read my mind about talking about comparison and things. You think, Lisa Congdon, she's been at it so long, she'll be fine. There'll be no self doubt or comparison. So it's very reassuring to hear that you do feel that sometimes.
- [19:50]
B
Yeah, I'm human and I Experience all the things. I think I also have a lot of tools for turning it off because I recognize that because I have enough experience and situations where I have compared myself to other people or thought to myself, oh, I should be doing this or that to know that's not actually true. And those are just stories I'm telling myself. The times when I follow my gut and my heart and my sense of purpose, about how I want to make my art and how I want to promote my art and how I want to show up in the world. If I just stay focused on that instead of what other people are doing, that's where I thrive. And it is possible that if I spent several hours a week making reels, that I could potentially sell more work. But then I'd be spending several hours a week making reels. And that's not something I have any interest in doing. And so I've just had to make that choice. And it's also possible it wouldn't help me make more money or whatever. I'm not in this profession to make money, but I do have a team of people who I pay to run my retail business. And I need to support myself. And so I have to be thinking about those things, like, what's the best use of my time to support my business and my employees.
- [21:12]
A
Yeah, it's like weighing it all up, isn't it? I would love to know. Looking at your career with the gift of hindsight, what do you think is the most impactful thing that you've done that really moved your business forward and your career as an illustrator?
- [21:27]
B
I think one of the things I mentioned earlier, which was doing this 365 day project, was pretty impactful. Now people do monthly and yearly projects quite a bit, but at the time, not very many people were doing those things. It was a great way to get my work in front of other people. I ended up doing another project the following year, which was 365 days of hand lettering more focused on my illustration career. That project also turned into a book with a major publisher. By the way, I had zero intention when I started that project of making a book. It didn't seem to be a thing until halfway through the project when I started hand lettering quotes instead of letters of the Alphabet. So anyway, that idea of both practicing something, earnestly being consistent, showing up every day, doing the thing whether I wanted to or not, I said publicly I was going to do it. And being true Capricorn, I was like, I have to do what I said I was going to do. Over Time I did develop a lettering style. It's been 15 years, and my lettering styles have changed and are so different now. But at the time, this was really novel for me and it was super cool. And about six months into the project, I was hand lettering a lot of quotes because what else do you do with your hand lettering? An editor at Chronicle contacted me and was like, I think this would make a really great book. At the end of the project, we took a hundred of the quotes, illustrated them. Some of them were already illustrated as part of the project, and turned it into a book that ended up selling super well. And that was like a really. It wasn't like I was like, I'm going to do a daily project and it's going to become a book, and the book is going to be a bestseller. No one can imagine that those things are going to happen. But I took a chance on doing something every day and hoping that it would lead to something, and it did. I also did other projects over the years that led to nothing except practicing. That was a really big one for me. And I've had a lot of other incredible things happen over the years. I also related to Chronicle Books. I used to live in San Francisco, and Chronicle Books is the publisher that I worked with, not exclusively, but pretty closely over the years. And I've done a ton of books with them. When I was in the very beginning of my career, and I had not even signed with my agent yet, I might have even still been working part time at another job, I used to make these collages that were inside of shadow boxes and some paintings of birch tree forests. So it's the first thing I became known for, were these birch forest paintings. I had a show in a little shop. It wasn't even a gallery. It was like a shop that had blank walls in San Francisco, a clothing store. Somehow that show got advertised on this platform that was really popular in San Francisco, where I lived, and my show ended up being flooded with people. It was a little overwhelming, and I think I sold almost everything. I got a call or an email the following week from the editorial director at Chronicle Books saying, somebody from Chronicle was at your show, loved your work, and we want to take some of it and turn it into journals and note cards. Those are things that I make myself. Now I'm at the place in my career that if I want to make a product, I just make it, especially if it's a paper product. This was like the biggest deal to me. It was like my first licensing deal ever. I did something and then somebody saw it and that person worked it somewhere and then they showed it. I had a meeting with that editorial director probably the following week. I didn't have a website, there was no social media. I just showed up with a literal portfolio of things that I had printed out and maybe a few things I had made to talk to her about. I think that was the one and only time I used this portfolio for an in person meeting, making some products with them. And one of the things ended up on the COVID of the catalog that year. So I was like brand new, no following, nobody knew who I was. And then Rogers, who ended up becoming my agent, saw my work on the Chronicle Books catalog and ended up signing me. So that's just another example of something that propelled my career. Neither of the things were intentional things that I did, but I knew that I had to keep trying different things. Showing up, making art and putting it out into the world. Eventually, if there was an audience for my work, that audience would find me and I would find them. And I could tell you probably like 20 more. Stories like that just get increasingly bigger and more profound over the years. But those are two from the beginning that I talk about a lot and remember fondly.
- [26:21]
A
I love that. It's like you get enthusiastic about something, do it, because you're really lit up by it. And that is the domino effect, isn't it? Somebody see something, tell somebody else, and.
- [26:31]
B
Then it blows up chronologically. The story with Chronicle and having the show happened before the hand lettering exam example that I gave. But yeah, so I told them out of order. But they're two really pivotal examples from my career.
- [26:45]
A
Yeah, I'm dying to ask as well, because this year I've been studying human design. Do you know what your human design profile is? You don't? I'll have to grill you about that afterwards.
- [26:55]
B
Yeah, tell me what you think it is. I don't know.
- [26:58]
A
Yeah, I was wondering. You talked about going with your gut and being lit up by things. So I'm thinking you've probably got that as your way of making decisions. So if something is an instant yes and then manifesting, generators have more than one career in their life. And it seems like you have that. If you get really excited about something, you're really buzzy and just go with it. You can almost get into a project, get on with it and come out like, I did it. As you had that whole previous career before you even became an artist. It could be that I'm a complete nerd about this stuff, but it just.
- [27:28]
B
I can see that's interesting.
- [27:30]
A
Yeah. I'll do your reading afterwards.
- [27:34]
This has been so good. I feel like I could talk to you for actual hours. Lisa, it's just so inspiring to hear your journey and the lessons you've learned. You've been the dream podcast guest, so thank you so much.
- [27:45]
B
Thank you for having me.
- [28:02]
A
Sam.