Podcast Summary: “If it looks awful, keep going. It’ll work out” — Interview with Catherine Rayner

The Good Ship Illustration, October 31, 2025
Host(s): Helen Stephens, Katie Chappell, Tania Willis
Guest: Catherine Rayner, award-winning illustrator and author

Overview

This episode features an in-depth, candid conversation with Catherine Rayner, a celebrated children’s book author and illustrator, about her creative process, daily life, working habits, collaborations, parenting, and perseverance as an illustrator. Catherine shares stories from her career, advice for new illustrators, experiences balancing motherhood with a creative profession, and encourages open discussion about challenges, setbacks, and “keeping going” through messy or difficult stages of a project.

Major Discussion Points & Insights

Catherine’s Creative Working Life

• Studio Routine & Team Structure
  • Catherine balances motherhood with running her illustration business, a greetings card line, and a shop, assisted by two team members.
  • Her day starts with the school run, followed by a weekly team briefing and task-planning.
  • Quote:
    “My routine: drop off small person at school, get here and we’re all in. So we have a bit of a catch up, do a brief for the week...” (03:00)
• Studio Setup
  • Prefers a separate studio space (“I don’t work from home”), values physical accountability and structure.
  • Misses the community aspect when not at shared printmaker studios but appreciates the space for assistants and projects.
  • Recurring theme: every week looks different due to travel, events, and book deadlines.

Managing Work, Deadlines, and Organization

• Thriving Under Pressure
  • Catherine and her assistants embrace short deadlines:
    “I actually really thrive on the ‘we’ve got to do this, we’ve got to do this…’” (05:20)
  • Recharges post-events with “half an hour staring at the wall and a Kit Kat Chunky” (06:02)
• Project Management Tools
  • Uses large paper calendars, post-it notes, and markers for planning, prefers tactile, visual methods over digital solutions (Trello tried and abandoned).
  • Quote:
    “This is my technology: a giant calendar with post-its…” (07:14)
  • Finds the post-it approach regulates workload:
    “…it stops you cramming too much in, because it’s like one post-it note is the day, isn’t it?” (09:05)

Creative Challenges & Collaborations

• Drawing People vs Animals

  • Known for animals, Catherine was pushed creatively by illustrating people for Julia Donaldson’s new book, “The Magic Feather”:
    “It’s pushed me to my absolute creative limits because it’s got people in it and traditionally I hate drawing people.” (09:14)
  • Her solution:
    “Just think of them as little animals… and it kind of worked.” (10:25)

• Relationship with Julia Donaldson

  • Warm friendship built through mutual events, publishers, and personal support.
  • Story: Catherine declined an early Julia Donaldson project due to postnatal depression but later got a second opportunity (“The Go Away Bird”).
  • Memorable personal anecdote: Julia’s husband (a doctor) made a house call to fix Catherine’s ear with cotton buds.
    “He cleared out my ears for me and I was like, thanks, Malcolm. And he went, cheerio and left.” (14:20)

• The Joy & Realities of Collaborating with Famous Names

  • The process of pitching for “dream” collaborations, like trying (unsuccessfully) to get Jason Donovan and Kylie Minogue as audiobook narrators.
  • Emphasizes a proactive, not-too-precious attitude about pitching:
    “If I have an idea, I’ll just run with it. I’ll get so excited and I’ll phone everyone…” (18:17)

Career Development & Advice for Illustrators

• On Pitching and Early Career Challenges

  • Catherine and the hosts reflect on the difference between being approached versus cold pitching, and the struggles of breaking in.
  • Key advice for new illustrators:
    • Build up a strong portfolio, learn about SEO, cultivate contacts, and brace for a tough first five years.
    • Quote:
      “The first five years are blooming tough...but if you can get through that… it builds.” (20:41)
  • Gamifying rejection with a “100 Rejection Challenge”:
    • “I think I got to like 36 no’s. But by that time I'd applied for so many different things, I was too busy…” (21:30)

• Resilience and Learning from Failure

  • Catherine shares her own confidence crisis in a tough year:
    “Failures are actually usually a period of massive learning…” (22:47)
  • Cites motivational podcasts (Jim Rohn) as helpful.
  • Embraces the ups and downs of social media, encourages persistence, and cautions against believing online appearances.

Social Media & Practical Tools

• Instagram Strategies

  • Post daily, be responsive, don’t stress over dips in followers or algorithm changes.
  • “It doesn’t happen overnight. Years and years. And there is a good following now.” (23:26)
  • Follow Instagram updates from official sources for clarity (24:22)

• Tech & Equipment

  • Catherine advises renting or leasing essential hardware for business (such as Macs) instead of struggling with outdated tech.
    “Rather than sitting there struggling with an old machine…that’s a false economy…” (27:00)
  • Triple-backs up work across devices and cloud.

Parenting, Motherhood & Creativity

• Motherhood and Managing Guilt
  • Candid about the anxieties and realities of keeping a creative career alive during pregnancy and the baby years.
  • On the pressure to “bounce back”—Catherine describes her own struggles, need for support, and the lack of “normal” in the early days:
    “I just thought my whole career was going to go down the pan because my baby was ill…if only I’d known a bit more, I’d have been a bit nicer to myself.” (28:55)
  • Normalizes using childcare and being kind to oneself.
  • Encourages illustrators-mothers to reach out for support:
    “Any mum got through like any of it is an absolute legend and a superstar.” (35:04)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Perseverance:
  • “Very often I’ll start drawing and I’ll think, ‘This is absolutely rubbish…’, but I just always keep going if it’s looking awful. I will work on this until I am happy with it…I will make this work and I will make it good. So just don’t give up…”
    — Catherine Rayner (36:24)
• On Social Media Illusions:
  • “Don’t believe everything that you see on Instagram as well, where all these people are high-flying and sailing through…there's probably 20 years of experience, rejection, anxiety and all the rest of it in the background.”
    — Catherine Rayner (36:17)
• On Collaboration:
  • “If I have an idea, I’ll just run with it. I’ll get so excited and I’ll phone everyone…”
    — Catherine Rayner (18:17)
• On Motherhood & Guilt:
  • “I just thought my whole career was going to go down the pan…if only I’d known a bit more, I’d have been a bit nicer to myself…”
    — Catherine Rayner (29:10)
• On the Joy of Nursery:
  • “Did you ever think that you were there too much…he’s like, no, I loved it. I made some of my best friends, had a massive garden and loads of Lego.”
    — Catherine Rayner, quoting her son (34:52)

Key Timestamps

• 00:27 – Introduction to Catherine Rayner and her accolades
• 03:00 – Catherine describes a typical “chaotic” week and her studio routine
• 05:13 – On thriving with deadlines and “Kit Kat Chunky” resets
• 07:11–09:14 – Planning methods: giant calendar, post-its, avoiding Trello
• 09:14 – Creative challenges in her new book, “The Magic Feather”
• 10:25–15:00 – Collaborating with Julia Donaldson, drawing people, and relationship anecdotes
• 16:17–17:41 – The Jason Donovan/Kylie Minogue audiobook saga
• 18:17–23:09 – Proactive pitching, early career advice, rejection gamification
• 23:26–25:31 – Instagram and social media management
• 27:00–28:24 – Tech investments for illustrators
• 28:55–36:03 – The realities of parenting young children as an illustrator
• 36:17–37:40 – Closing advice: persistence, not believing the “Instagram myth”, and the messy path to success

Closing Advice

Catherine’s core message:

• Be patient—illustration careers build over years, not overnight.
• Don’t be fooled by online success stories; setbacks and doubts are universal.
• If it looks awful: keep going; keep working until you’re happy with it.
• Creative success comes from perseverance, learning from failure, and refusing to give up.

Mothers and new illustrators are encouraged to reach out for support—“you’re not alone!”

For more, follow Catherine Rayner on Instagram and visit her website (links in show notes).