Remember drawing for...fun? 😅 what is that?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Good Ship Illustration

Episode: Remember drawing for...fun? 😅 what is that?
Date: October 3, 2025
Hosts: Helen Stephens, Katie Chappell, Tania Willis

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Overview

This lively episode is centered on a relatable listener question: how do professional illustrators make room for playful, personal artwork when most motivation and energy is reserved for client work and deadlines? Helen, Katie, and Tania—three established illustrators from different backgrounds—unpack their own creative habits, the pressures of productivity, and ways to reconnect with the joy of drawing for fun.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Balancing Client Work and Personal Projects

• Motivation by Deadlines vs. Personal Drive

  • All three hosts commiserate about being deadline-driven for paid work and struggling to self-motivate on personal projects.

    “I am very motivated by other people's expectations and deadlines, but I find it hard to prioritize ideas and projects that are more for me.” (Listener Question, 00:23)

• Fine Art Versus Illustration Mindset

  • Tania reflects on the difference between fine artists (driven to work for themselves) and illustrators (thriving on external problem-solving), noting:

    “That sort of drive to pursue your own playful wackiness… I really didn't like it… I can't imagine what is really important for me to say.” (Tania, 01:57)

What Counts as ‘Personal’ and Fun?

• Sometimes Client Work Is Personal

  • Helen points out that in her picture book work, her personal interests and voice are deeply embedded, so she doesn't always crave separate, “playful” personal art.

    “In the world of picture books, my idea is the work.” (Helen, 03:07)

  • Sharing projects publicly, even if self-initiated, can motivate her (“Walk to Sea Sketchbooking,” “childhood illustrated”)—she enjoys group participation.

• Other Outlets for Creativity

  • The hosts stress that creativity leaks into other hobbies: crafts, home decor, writing, or, for Katie, sharing silly sketches on Substack or Instagram without a plan.
  • Tania’s side passion is needlework, which she considers meditative rather than “work” (Helen, 04:31).

The Challenge of Making Time for Fun

• Difficulties Switching Off ‘Work Brain’

  • All hosts agree—when art is your job, it’s hard to “force” yourself to have fun drawing for yourself. The temptation is to relax with other hobbies or life instead.

    “It's really difficult to say, right, let's have some, some fun doing it now…” (Tanya, 05:42)

  • Katie finds the spontaneous urge to create is more authentic and fun than scheduled “fun time” (Katie, 04:56–05:40).

• No Need for Guilt—You’re Probably More Creative Than You Think

  • Helen reassures that creative energy seeps out, even when you think you’re not “doing enough”:

    “You can't not be creative… it just sneaks out or gets out somewhere else, doesn't it?” (Helen, 07:18–07:20)

Community: Fun is Easier with Others

• Group Sketching and Art Clubs
  • Joining a group or ‘art club’ makes drawing for fun feel easy, low-pressure, and energizing.

    “Teaming up with people you like... it’s like going to the gym with a friend.” (Tanya, 08:42)

  • Urban sketching, art clubs, and shared holidays drawing with friends all provide motivation (Katie, 11:28–11:54).

Managing (and Letting Go of) Overwhelming Ideas

• The Sorting Hat Approach

  • Helen offers a strategy: make a list of ideas and test your gut response. If you’re not excited now, you probably won’t be later—cross it out!

    “If I don't feel like doing it today, I probably won't feel like it tomorrow.” (Helen, 12:35–13:42)

  • Katie suggests “parking” ideas (the “car park” method)—store them and revisit only the enduring ones (Katie, 16:38–16:44).

• Letting Go is Okay

  • Collective realization: it’s fine to abandon old ideas—no need to keep feeling bad about them.

    “Just lay them to rest and move on.” (Katie, 14:20) “Don’t beat yourself up because I think everyone feels like this.” (Tanya, 14:22)

Reflections on Productivity and Self-Worth

• The Pressure to Always Be Productive

  • The discussion turns to how self-worth is often linked to productivity, especially for women juggling multiple roles.

    “We think if we are productive, it’s a measure of our right to exist in the world.” (Tanya, 14:22)

  • Katie shares the struggle to truly relax and take time off:

    “I took August off in theory, but I found it so hard to stop.” (Katie, 14:55)

• Acquisition as a Substitute for Action

  • The hosts reflect (with humor) on how illustrators sometimes hoard supplies for projects they never start—buying gear becomes a diversion in itself rather than actually making art (Helen, 17:24–19:39).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creative restlessness:

  “If I'm not feeling it today, I'm probably not feeling it tomorrow. Maybe just cross it off.”
  — Helen (12:35)

• On supportive art communities:

  “Even if you don't draw that weekend... that's a good way of kind of—it's like going to the gym with a friend, isn't it?”
  — Tanya (08:42)

• On guilt about not doing enough:

  “And I like, don't beat yourself up, because I think everyone feels like this—that we should be permanently in motion and productive.”
  — Tanya (14:22)

• On the reality of creative lives:

  “You can't not be creative... it just sneaks out or gets out somewhere else, doesn't it?”
  — Helen (07:18–07:20)

• On letting ideas go:

  “Just lay them to rest and move on.”
  — Katie (14:20)

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Practical Tips & Wisdom

• If it's not fun or urgent, DON'T do it—let yourself off the hook.
• Join a group or art club to make fun drawing a social, motivating act.
• List and “test” your ideas—let go of those that don’t genuinely excite you.
• Allow creativity in non-art forms: crafts, home, learning, whatever brings joy.
• Recognize that just existing and enjoying life is valid—constant productivity is not a requirement for self-worth.
• You’re likely already doing more “fun projects” than you realize—even bits and pieces count!

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Key Timestamps

• 00:23 – Listener's question about motivation for personal work
• 03:07 – Helen on picture books as personal work
• 05:40 – Katie on spontaneity versus planning fun creativity
• 08:42 – Tanya: team up/gym analogy for creative motivation
• 12:35–13:42 – Helen on “sorting hat” method for project ideas
• 14:22 – The trap of tying self-worth to productivity
• 16:38–16:44 – Katie on the “car park” for ideas
• 19:03 – The comfort of buying art supplies vs. starting projects

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Final Takeaway

You don’t have to ‘force’ fun or personal projects. Creativity leaks out into all corners of your life, and you’re almost certainly feeding your creative needs—even if it doesn’t look like you once imagined. Cut yourself some slack, embrace what excites you in the moment, and consider sharing the journey with other creative folks.

Transcript

[Helen]

Welcome, welcome. This week we've got a brilliant question and it goes. I am very motivated by other people's expectations and deadlines, but I find it hard to prioritize the ideas and projects that are more for me. How do you three make room for more playful personal artwork? Hope you haven't tackled this already. If so, I will re. Listen. Would love to hear about Studio Spaces too. We did Studio Spaces.

[Katie]

Talked about that.

[Helen]

Couple of podcasts back. But let's tackle trying to do personal projects.

[Katie]

Yeah, I'm very motivated by other people's deadlines and things as well. Maybe all illustrators are like other.

[Tanya]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

[Katie]

Publisher deadlines, editorial map deadlines and the actual event deadline.

[Helen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Katie]

I don't know.

[Helen]

Yeah, I. I go through phases of being able to make work for its own sake and then I'll run out of energy or like that idea that I had that motivates me to do some self mated, self motivated, self mated motivated stuff. At the end it runs its course and then I don't do any for ages until something like really, really grabs me. But nothing's grabbed me like that for quite a while. I mean, I have vague ideas that I would like to do. But am I in deficient? So that's my excuse. It's only newly iron deficient. Just newly, freshly ironed it. I know I'm gonna blame it on that.

[Katie]

Everyone has to first have the iron levels checked.

[Helen]

Yeah.

[Katie]

There.

[Tanya]

And then if you can't, don't worry. Just do the jobs.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Tanya]

I think this touches quite close to that awkward fine art illustration division that people who are really motivated to do their own thing, I think are more likely to be fine artists. I know it sounds a bit kind of lumpen to say that because there's lots of other aspects that make you a fine artist versus a commercial artist, but that sort of drive to pursue your own playful wackiness or particular ideas, whatever it might be. Whereas having come from that side in the beginning and I really didn't like it when I'd finished my BA in painting and printmaking, I was. I don't know anything about the world. I can't imagine what is really important for me to say. Strangely for quite a gobby person, I didn't think I had a lot to say or to contribute visually. And I didn't know whether I could make work just on that. And that's when illustration and design was like that. I wouldn't work with other people, solving a problem, working with them on A kind of. It made it more real to be involved in problem solving or working in partnership with other people. So it's really hard to go back to. My idea is enough.

[Helen]

I think in the world of picture books, my idea is the work.

[Tanya]

Yeah.

[Helen]

Like I am so inspired by making that book that I don't feel the need to have something else that is more me on the side. Because that is it. These are two projects that I've got really motivated with on the side. Now I think about it, we're both kind of public facing too. So the Walk to Sea Sketchbooking from Life. I love doing it and sharing it. Really, really liked sharing it and started that hashtag and everything. And then the childhood illustrated thing that was inspired by my childhood and wanting to investigate it but also asking other people to join in with it. So usually if I have a really strong self made, self motivated project that I want to get hold of, I want to share it with everybody immediately. So maybe that's the illustrator in me. I don't know.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Helen]

But communicate a bit. I want to do it with other people.

[Tanya]

I always forget that bits. When you look enviously at picture book illustrators who have birthed the whole idea. Especially author illustrators. You're right. That is entirely your idea. It's like being a film director. The self belief required to sustain you throughout the production of a book and all the people behind it who luckily will support you and they're the ones cheering you on, you working with them. But it is purely your idea, isn't it? You're satisfied. You don't need to do anything more.

[Helen]

Yeah. The thing I really like doing on the side and always do do on the side, but I don't consider it work is making flags and silly tapestries and like needleworky things. I feel like that's just meditation on the side. That's not work related and I don't feel the need to show everybody that. What about you, Katie?

[Katie]

I don't even know. I'm sitting here like wow. Yeah.

[Tanya]

Yeah.

[Katie]

I feel like the work that I do with clients is very not personal fun project. But then I think I get the funness out of like writing more and more. Like even just writing on substack and doing like doing a silly drawing in my sketchbook and then taking a photo of it and put it in Instagram is more fun than anything else. And it's not planned and I'm not like right now. I am making time for fun. It is time to do the fun work. It's like it just spills out and I can't help but do it. And I think if you've had fun doing it and then you share it, people can smell that and they can swell that you haven't. It's not convoluted and you've spent ages trying to have a good time. But I do wish I drew more for fun because I used to draw.

[Helen]

More for fun all the time.

[Tanya]

It's difficult when drawing is your business. Yeah, it's really difficult to say, right, let's have some, some fun doing it now when you think, I'd probably like to go sell a flag or ferment some cabbage or whatever it is that you enjoy doing. But your other thing, Katie, is learning lots. You're always doing courses. I mean, for the rest of it, it's like, oh, God, of course I've got to limber up to it and then not forget about it and leave it. But you, you just consume them.

[Katie]

Yeah, I do. And also the way I read, like saw somebody talking about reading with a packet of post it notes and a pen beside them, and I've started doing that and it's, it's so much fun.

[Helen]

You're always excited by learning and you're excited by creative tasks, like making a real, like really short little editing jobs where you make something funny.

[Katie]

And I find that sort of thing, like trying, like communicating something in a new way or, or learning a thing and making it easy, easier to understand. I think that's the theme of all my work is like taking all the big information and then spit it out in a way that's less overwhelming, which is creative.

[Helen]

So, like, this is another avenue. Your creativity is used. I think we've all got a certain amount of creativity in us and we use it in different ways. I feel like this person is actually feeling bad for not doing their stuff on their side. But you probably are without realizing. Yeah. Maybe you're a reader or maybe you're a course taker like Katie, who loves learning and passing information on. Maybe you're sewing on the side and.

[Katie]

You'Ve talked about this, Helen. Like, you can't not be creative. Like, even if you take time off.

[Helen]

Yeah.

[Katie]

You'll end up channeling your creativity.

[Helen]

I'll decide, right. I am gonna make a banner and I'm supposed to be taking time off, but the creativity just like sneaks out or like, just gets out somewhere else, doesn't it?

[Katie]

And we're really excited in Tanya's house and everywhere in the house, you can see that Tanya has had fun. Like we've got a tour of the plant shelf and Tanya's illustrator plant is.

[Helen]

Enormous and there are tools hanging on the outside of her house now that look exactly like a Tanya illustration. And I said, Tanya, look how you've hung the tools on the side of there. And she said, oh, do you think they look exactly like one of your illustrations?

[Katie]

They look so good.

[Tanya]

Maybe homemaking is. Is some of it.

[Helen]

I think it is, you know, I'm sure it is.

[Tanya]

I'm wondering whether this person asking the question wants some good, solid ideas as well. And the other one that I've noticed with a friend, old illustrator friend, who used to say, I don't know how you can have. How do you have the energy at the end of the day, even though you really want to? The spirit is willing. And I've noticed now he's joined a sketchers club and they're all guys of a certain age and they all go out drawing and they go on holidays abroad drawing, only four or five of them. And they say we have great chats, which is really nice because men need great chats at a certain age with other men. That may not be you, dear Question Asker, but I think teaming up with people you like, that's a really good.

[Helen]

Idea, a kind of fun.

[Tanya]

Even if you don't draw that weekend or that Wednesday afternoon that you put aside once a month to go out with your mates drawing that, that's a good way of kind of. It's like going to the gym with a friend, isn't it?

[Helen]

It's like art club as well. I love it when we decide to do an art club because we draw and we're drawing with everybody. So it feels really good fun and it's really low pressure. Yeah.

[Tanya]

I've got an albatross project that Katie and Helen know about and the other day they told me, why don't you just not do it? I was just, I thought, are they trying to double bluff me? They're trying to provoke me. They've planned this because it's something I've been banging on about for ages. And as an illustrat, obviously you're looking for commercial projects. I'm like, this is my big retirement project that will make money and I'm engaged with it and I like the creative aspect, but I've turned it into a big thing in my head, which it really doesn't need to be. I need Katie and Helen standing behind me going, make it easy, just make it quick.

[Helen]

Happens like I became Absolutely certain that I was going to learn Procreate dreams.

[Tanya]

Yeah, we all believed.

[Helen]

I was desperate to. I really wanted to and I just didn't. And I didn't and I didn't. And now I thought, I don't know where that came from. I don't. It wasn't. It was. Maybe it was something I felt like I should do or maybe it's because I said I was going to do it, then I rebelled against it because I do that quite often. Yeah, you. Once I said publicly, I want to do it, like some of the air is let out of the balloon. Then like, it's almost like I did it because I said it and everybody admired me for saying it. That was it. I didn't need to.

[Tanya]

But you think you're holding yourself accountable by telling everyone so it guarantees it will happen. All it is is you just sound like a scratched record in your own head. And people say, how's that map going? Oh, I've just really only done the black and white bit so far.

[Katie]

After two years, was it my version of that as a mural in my studio? When I moved into my first studio four years ago, I was like, I can paint something on the wall and then I've moved into this new, bigger one. I'm like, I can paint something on the wall, but it's the same thing. It's a scratch record. I'm like, I'm never going to do it. I should just stop saying that to myself.

[Helen]

Or just do it today in an afternoon. Just like this afternoon. This is it.

[Katie]

Exactly. I try and talk about it with Cameron and he's like, oh, I don't know. And I'm like, oh, you wait. No, it's not the helpful discussion I need.

[Tanya]

Well, I realized this weekend I've just turned into a lady Sunday painter and that's where I'm getting my creative buzz. Sit in the garden with the nasturtiums and do a little watercolor.

[Katie]

Nasturtium paintings?

[Helen]

Yeah, they're lovely.

[Tanya]

It felt really nice doing. I just. Is it actually as simple as this? The car club is. All you need is 20 minutes and some stuff around and have a bit of a scribble. And the other one is like, maybe you could take a holiday or go on a residency. That's the other version.

[Katie]

Urban sketches. When I lived in Newcastle, many, many years ago, urban sketching was amazing. Was it?

[Tanya]

Did you get motivated by being with them and doing it?

[Katie]

Yeah, because again, it's like the gym thing, you know, people are going there, you feel weirdly. Like, you should turn up.

[Helen]

Yeah.

[Katie]

Because you said you will. And then you get there and you have to start drawing. And then because you started, you actually enjoy it. And because it's buildings, I felt that really like the building is there and I will draw this building.

[Tanya]

Got a bit of direction there. Like nasturtiums, although. Yeah, buildings and nasturtiums are easy. It's human bodies that really let you down.

[Katie]

Avoid the people.

[Tanya]

The thing that makes me really sad when I see illustrators asking each other. So in the Facebook group, you often see people saying, how do I know which idea I should do? I get so many ideas and then I get bored of them and I don't. Or I lose faith in them and I don't believe anymore. Then I wait for another idea to come along and I think that's the one. That's such a typical illustrator's quandary, isn't it? And they're totally not alone. I find that you feel you must do something so you have loads of ideas. You don't know which one to do, and then they all sort of dissipate.

[Helen]

I think a list is good for that. And sometimes I play. Play that trick where I go, okay, I've written a list of things I have to do, so I'm going to choose that one. And then immediately do I feel like disappointment. And if I feel disappointment that I selected that one, then that is definitely not the one and I've got to cross that out. And if I don't feel like doing it today, I probably won't feel like it tomorrow either. So maybe that's like bottom of the list.

[Tanya]

Yeah. Is this your sorting hat?

[Helen]

It's kind of sorting, yeah. It's like yesterday, pie bought. This is my teenage daughter. She bought a bag for school and it arrived. And I really know with her that if she doesn't immediately pack it with her school things and plan to take it school next day, she will never use it. And she unpacked it and put it on the chair and then didn't empty her other bag into it. And I said, do you like it? And she said, yeah. And I said, are you going to use it? And she said, yeah. I don't know. I said, you want to use it tomorrow? And she said, no. I said, we're going to return it then, aren't we? And I feel like the list is like that. If we don't feel like it today, are we really going to feel like it in 10 days time or so? Maybe you just forget about that one. If it's not a today job, maybe it's not a job at all.

[Tanya]

That could be a really good service. Like people just call you up.

[Helen]

Yeah. About things they're excited about. Yeah. No, you just ask them all the.

[Tanya]

Help, the sorting hat questions and you get them to come to understand what they do.

[Helen]

And don't you do. Do you feel like doing the map project today?

[Katie]

You took too long. I said, oh, I got some other plans.

[Tanya]

Don't make me give up on it. I've invested so much time.

[Helen]

Tanya, do you feel like. Katie, do you feel like drawing the mural today?

[Katie]

No. Maybe you do. Maybe. Sleep on it.

[Tanya]

Okay. We're never doing either of those.

[Helen]

I'm not doing procreate dreams either. I don't feel like it today. It's not happening.

[Katie]

Just lay them to rest and move on.

[Tanya]

And I like, don't beat yourself up because I think everyone feels like this. That we should be permanently emotion and productive. And that Oliver Bergman book. Isn't it. That we think if we are productive, it's a measure of our right to exist in the world. Our self esteem. Yeah. Value and all of that. And we can get really tied up, particularly with women who the. Sorry. To the men that are listening. But our multitasking skills are pretty phenomenal. And we can just exist like a whirling dervish, doing everything all at once. At some point you've just got to stop.

[Helen]

Yeah.

[Katie]

I thought it really like, I took August off in theory, but I found it so hard to stop. And I love time off. I love sleeping, I love having baths and things. But taking time properly off, it's felt so uncomfortable this month and I think it's because I was. When you're in that momentum of getting loads of things done and doing loads of things and being really busy and juggling all. And then you stop. You almost like I kept feeling like, oh, I forgot something and I was like, no, I'm off, I'm off.

[Tanya]

And I have lost my entire identity. Yeah.

[Katie]

Like how much is tied up with like getting stuff done and doing the things and then when you don't have that, it feels really uncomfortable.

[Tanya]

Even with a small child who needs you all the time, which still blows my mind that you do all of those things and your mum. And so even when you stop doing all of those things and the small person needs you all the time, you still felt that discomfort of like, oh, do I even exist?

[Katie]

I mean, she's off now. So it's easier to not have my own feelings when she was at nursery. I had too much time to think.

[Tanya]

So I remember you said that in your reel, didn't you? Something about, right, let's stop work now. Oh, God, no. I can hear my own thoughts.

[Katie]

Horrible. Don't do that.

[Tanya]

All the women I know are workaholics.

[Katie]

I think society encourages it a lot and rewards it.

[Tanya]

Yeah, lots of men doing lots of workaholicy things as well, but especially women who used to looking after kids and everything else. Probably get lots of hate mail now. Sorry, men, you do work hard too.

[Katie]

Hashtag not all men.

[Tanya]

So, yeah, just do the things you want to do. Helen said you've got permission, only pick up the stuff that you're excited about.

[Helen]

I like your car park idea as well. If your head is absolutely flooded with ideas, what do you do?

[Katie]

Just park it, Put it in a.

[Helen]

Car park until it you'll come back.

[Katie]

To it and then if you don't, that's fine. But I used to love that about bullet journaling. I don't do it so much now, but I used to be obsessed and, you know, every day you make a list of what you're going to do and if you don't do it, you carry it over to the next day and it's brilliant because by like day four of transferring this blimming task, you're like, why am I writing this out again? Why haven't I done it four days in a row? And sometimes people like, actually, I don't need to do it, I'm not going to do it and just cross it out and that was good.

[Tanya]

Yeah. I think I have my bullet journal here. I've been writing this map 150 times. I still don't seem to know that that's a sign of a problem.

[Helen]

I just watched a YouTube video at the weekend, about every weekend. There's this thing on this, she's called Spacemaker Method and she helps people sort out their flats and houses of stuff. They're not quite hoarders, but they get in there. Yeah. And in the most recent one that I watched at the weekend, it was a person with absolutely loads of bullet journal stu.

[Katie]

Oh, no. Like she could barely move enough. Laugh. Please send me the link. I want to watch this one.

[Tanya]

Did she have a kit that she bought to help the bullet journaling?

[Helen]

Did she have what.

[Tanya]

When you say it was full of bullet journaling stuff, was it the stuff she was supposed to do or other kits like crafters have to help their bullet journaling?

[Helen]

I think all varieties of bullet journaling and some of them would have one or two pages filled in and some non. You just had tons of it.

[Katie]

This lady had not no permission to film me. How did she get into my studio?

[Tanya]

That's really bad though. I didn't think bullet journaling stuff could take up so much room. I thought you were talking about the results of.

[Helen]

No, not the results of the bullet journal. Just the bullet journals. But also in these in. And I watched quite a lot about hoarders houses as well. It makes me feel like I'm really tidy. It does something good to me. It makes me feel like I've had a pat on the head at the end because at least I'm not there. I've gone really, really off track.

[Tanya]

I don't wear.

[Helen]

But you should start watching it. It's really interesting. It's obviously creative people. This is what made me think of it. It's always creative people get overwhelmed by the amount of stuff they collect in order to start the project and then never do the project.

[Tanya]

Oh yeah, that's deferment behavior, isn't it? That you buy all the kit. It's also the version of. What is it? All the gear. No idea. And then you feel like you fulfilled it. I know people very close to me in this house used to do things like that by professional level equipment rather than entry level equipment or any equipment at all for a new project idea. I mean that's just mad. I think it's just another category to get people to shift a load of money in the act of self actualization, self realization that you're more than just.

[Helen]

There's the whole like gym equipment stuff as well, isn't there?

[Tanya]

Yeah.

[Helen]

Buy all the equipment and then I'm going to get fit and then completely ignore it.

[Katie]

Yeah, there's probably that like the discomfort of not having work to do that uncomfortable feeling like stuff it with craft supplies. I couldn't. Like when you're talking about like, whoa.

[Tanya]

That'S August for you next year. Well, I've just got a new big pack of paints from Cassart, so I'm very excited. I've got back to building up my painting equipment. We need to have an art club soon because.

[Katie]

Do you use it?

[Tanya]

Yeah, now I've got a new studio. I'm buying kit to fill it.

[Helen]

Let's get some dates in the diary for art clubs. We need some art clubs.

[Tanya]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Katie]

GPI is peeled. We'll email you about them.

[Tanya]

Yeah, good luck with your personal projects. Get down to them. If you can't ask Helen to come and validate them.

[Helen]

Good luck with your craft supplies.

[Katie]

You're probably already doing fun projects and.

[Tanya]

Not realizing maybe I like that get out clause.

[Katie]

Yeah, you already are.

[Helen]

Okay for now. Bye Bye.

[Katie]

It.