What tech do you use as an illustrator? Featuring Helen's 25 year-old Epson scanner that WILL NOT DIE

Summary

Podcast Title: The Good Ship Illustration
Episode Title: What tech do you use as an illustrator? Featuring Helen's 25 year-old Epson scanner that WILL NOT DIE
Release Date: January 17, 2025

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Good Ship Illustration, hosts Helen Stephens, Katie Chappell, and Tanya Willis delve into the technological tools and setups they utilize in their illustration careers. With over 70 years of combined experience, the trio offers insightful discussions on hardware choices, software preferences, and the challenges of maintaining an efficient workflow as modern illustrators.

---

Individual Tech Setups

Katie's Tech Arsenal

Katie begins by sharing her reliance on the iPad for her creative work. She transitioned from a second-hand, smaller model to a substantial 12.9-inch iPad in 2020, which she praises for its durability despite frequent use:

Katie [01:17]: "I've got my iPad in 2020 and it's still going strong. It's four years of being battered... and it's totally fine."

Complementing her iPad, Katie uses a MacBook Pro for all her business-related tasks, emphasizing the importance of having reliable storage solutions through Dropbox:

Katie [01:19]: "I put everything on Dropbox because I work from home sometimes, I work from the studio, sometimes I travel a lot."

In her studio, she employs a desktop setup with dual monitors to enhance her workflow, particularly benefiting her ADHD by allowing multiple windows to be open simultaneously:

Katie [02:09]: "I got a second monitor because apparently it's good for ADHD... it's great for putting post-it notes on."

Helen's Enduring Equipment

Helen showcases her impressive dedication to longevity with a nearly 25-year-old Epson scanner that remains functional despite numerous drops:

Helen [05:25]: "It's an Epson style stylus photo scanner... I've dropped the scanner on the floor numerous times. Still going strong."

Her primary creative process involves traditional paper drawing, which she scans and edits using Affinity or Photoshop. Helen also utilizes a large Mac for managing her digital tasks and mentions her extensive use of Dropbox for storage:

Helen [04:34]: "I use it to scan all of my work, get it in on Affinity or Photoshop... then that goes off to print."

Tanya's Traditional Approach

Tanya sticks to Photoshop and Illustrator, leveraging the pen tool despite her reservations about the software's vector capabilities. She relies on a MacBook Pro for mobility, aiming to incorporate residencies and travel into her career:

Tanya [11:38]: "I use a Wacom stylus and an Intuos pad... and I use my laptop to power Photoshop."

She expresses a longing for more intuitive tools like Procreate but acknowledges her deep-rooted muscle memory in Photoshop, making the transition challenging:

Tanya [14:57]: "I've got a mental block. I just can't use Procreate because I'm so 25 years trained in Photoshop."

---

Software Preferences and Usage

Procreate vs. Traditional Software

Katie advocates for Procreate on the iPad for live scribing, highlighting its integration with virtual webcam software like ECAMM Live to share her drawing process during events:

Katie [03:53]: "I use [ECAMM Live]. It basically turns... instead of seeing your face, it shows your iPad screen."

Conversely, Helen shares her mixed feelings about Procreate. While she appreciates its capabilities for digital display, she prefers traditional paper drawing for its tactile authenticity:

Helen [05:34]: "There’s something magic about the Apple pen and the weight of it in your hand and how it genuinely feels like you’re drawing on a piece of paper."

Tanya remains hesitant to adopt Procreate, favoring the familiarity of Photoshop and her Wacom stylus despite the interface's complexities:

Tanya [15:19]: "I use Photoshop, but it's not even real vector stuff... I'm stuck there forever now."

Animation and Editing Tools

Katie utilizes Procreate for animation, subsequently editing her work with Adobe Rush for streamlined, user-friendly video production:

Katie [04:34]: "Adobe Rush is like trim, chop, speed up, slow down. So it's really good if you want to do easy peasy editing."

---

Challenges with Digital Tools

Screen Size and Hardware Limitations

A recurring theme is the frustration with screen sizes. Katie desires a larger iPad for enhanced drawing space, while Helen finds dual monitors essential but occasionally forgets to use them due to ADHD:

Katie [20:22]: "Please make a massive iPad as big as the biggest Mac... I want a massive one."

Helen echoes the sentiment, expressing a wish for an iPad comparable to the size of a picture book to better handle detailed illustrations:

Helen [08:29]: "I wish they'd make a bigger one... a bit bigger so you could draw 110."

Software Constraints and File Management

The hosts discuss the technical limitations of Procreate, especially concerning CMYK color profiles for print publishing:

Helen [09:09]: "I'm working on in CMYK on it, but apparently CMYK on Procreate is not as good as CMYK on other software."

Tanya highlights issues with Photoshop's vector tools, leading to frustrations with the software's raster-centric design:

Tanya [11:37]: "I'm stuck there forever now... drag longingly at the Apple pencil."

Additionally, managing storage remains a significant hurdle, with Katie lamenting the rapid filling of her MacBook Pro despite diligent use of Dropbox:

Katie [16:53]: "There's nothing worse than when you're trying to work on something and it's like memory full."

---

Publishing Workflow

Color Management and File Formats

When discussing publishing, Helen emphasizes the importance of communicating with publishers about software compatibility and file formats. Despite concerns, her Procreate files have been accepted by publishers like Walker Books without color issues:

Helen [10:46]: "I think you should always discuss it with your publisher and say, I’m going to use Procreate. Are you happy with that?"

The trio also touches upon the necessity of sending non-layered files, typically in TIFF format, to avoid complications during the publishing process:

Helen [11:31]: "I just save it as a TIFF and send it."

---

Storage and Archiving Physical Artwork

Helen candidly discusses the overwhelming accumulation of physical artwork, describing her home as a "fire hazard" due to the sheer volume of folders:

Helen [19:11]: "Our house is a fire hazard... every year two more massive folders get added to the cupboard under the stairs."

The conversation pivots to potential storage solutions, with playful suggestions but no definitive answers:

Helen [19:58]: "Maybe I'll have a bonfire on purpose."

---

Humorous Notes and Audience Engagement

Throughout the episode, the hosts engage in light-hearted banter, addressing their collective aversion to quizzes and joking about creating a "Maxi Pad" to satisfy their needs for larger drawing surfaces:

Helen [20:22]: "Please make a massive iPad as big as the biggest Mac... I want a massive one."

Katie [20:32]: "Call it the Maxi Pad, it'll be brilliant."

---

Conclusion

The episode concludes with the trio acknowledging their struggles with current technology while humorously contemplating future innovations. Their candid discussions offer a relatable glimpse into the daily tech challenges faced by modern illustrators, emphasizing the balance between traditional methods and evolving digital tools.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Katie [01:17]: "It's four years of being battered... and it's totally fine."

• Helen [05:25]: "I've dropped the scanner on the floor numerous times. Still going strong."

• Katie [03:53]: "Instead of seeing your face, it shows your iPad screen."

• Helen [08:29]: "I wish they'd make a bigger one... so you could draw 110."

• Tanya [15:19]: "I'm stuck there forever now."

---

This episode provides valuable insights into the practical aspects of an illustrator's tech setup, highlighting both the benefits and limitations of current tools. Whether you're a seasoned illustrator or just starting, the hosts' experiences offer guidance and provoke thought on optimizing your own creative workflow.

Transcript

[Tanya]

Because Helen always says she gets the gist of things.

[Helen]

Yeah.

[Tanya]

So do we all. And none of us know the actual models of any of the tech that we own. But people keep asking.

[Helen]

I don't know the facts and figures about anything, but I get the gist of everything in the world. But just the gist.

[Katie]

You know what? That's all you need, a high level overview.

[Helen]

Yeah. As long as you never enter a pub quiz, you're fine.

[Katie]

Yeah, we were just saying before, we're bad at quizzes.

[Helen]

Yeah.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Helen]

So we're going to talk about what tech setup we've all got at home.

[Katie]

Yep.

[Helen]

Do you want to go first, Katie?

[Katie]

Go on, then. So all my work really is on an iPad. An iPad. So when I started out, I had a second hand ancient iPad, the smallest one, and then upgraded to like a big 12.9 incher. It's massive. I get it out. People go, is that a laptop? But it's just a massive iPad. It's really heavy, which is annoying, but it does the job.

[Tanya]

And loads of storage.

[Katie]

Loads of. Well, actually I did get decent storage, but I put everything on Dropbox because I have. I work from home sometimes I work from the studio, sometimes I travel a lot. Well, I used to travel a lot for work, so everything's in the cloud, storage wise. So that. Yeah, I've got a laptop at home. It's in. So I got my iPad in 2020 and it's still going strong. It's 2024, so it's four years of being battered. Like I work, I use it a lot, A lot, a lot, a lot. And it's totally fine. And I've got a laptop. I go through them quite quickly. I get like two years out of a laptop, a MacBook Pro.

[Helen]

Are you drawing on your laptop or are you doing your businessy stuff on your laptop?

[Katie]

Business, everything.

[Helen]

Which video, your substacks, stuff like that.

[Tanya]

Yeah.

[Katie]

It's like every single day I use my laptop and then I've got a desktop at the studio, which I like. It's got a big screen.

[Helen]

You have two screens in your studio side by side.

[Katie]

Well, I forgot about that. Yes. So I got a second monitor because apparently it's good for adhd. However, I forget to turn it, I forget to turn it on, which is very adhd. But it's great for putting post it notes on.

[Helen]

It's a really expensive notice.

[Tanya]

Hold on, why is it good for adhd? Is it because you want to know millions of things all at the same time?

[Katie]

Yes. You can just like have extra information on display.

[Tanya]

Yes.

[Katie]

And if I'm in an event, so when I was using it and remembering to use it, it was handy. I'd have, like, all the information on the spare monitor.

[Tanya]

Yeah.

[Katie]

And then the actual event on the other monitor. And that meant I could keep an eye on everything and not be, like, clicking between tabs and stuff. Or if I'm, like, writing something and I want to reference information, it's on the other screen.

[Tanya]

Yeah. This is how, when we do our live calls, I have to have my laptop open and the big screen on so that I can look at two things at once. I don't understand how. How the young people today do everything on their phones or small iPads.

[Katie]

I know, it's so hard. I need the big screen. A lot of things I like that are big screen jobs.

[Tanya]

Yeah, absolutely. Loads of things are big screen jobs. I couldn't do without it.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Tanya]

Hold on, back to your live scribing. So do you do all your live scribing in Procreate?

[Katie]

Yes. Yeah. So I'm in Procreate on my iPad and it's plugged into the computer. So the event's happening on the computer and then my iPad is, like, feeding into the computer. Because when I started out, I tried to do it, like, logging into Zoom on my iPad and then being on Procreate did not work right again because everything's too crowded and you can't flip from screen to screen. Like you need to zoom on the iPad. It's a nightmare sometimes, I find.

[Tanya]

And then if you're drawing, you're live scribing and you've got your big screen. Do you use a software to join the pair of them up?

[Katie]

Yes, it's like a virtual webcam software. So I use one called ECAMM Live.

[Tanya]

Yeah.

[Katie]

And it, like, basically turns. Instead of seeing your face, it shows your iPad screen. And you can do really cool things like screen share, or there's another one like Obs and Camtasia and stuff. And I discovered them in my old life when I taught English online to Chinese children, because you'd have to, like, show words on the screen and, like, give them videos to look at and stuff.

[Tanya]

So, yeah, that's amazing. And then they. Your stuff is animated later on after the event. What kind of software do you use for the animation? Or is it just Procreate Record?

[Katie]

It's Procreate does it, but I like to edit it. Is it a thing called Adobe Rush, which is like Adobe Premiere Pro for Dummies, where you can like take because I went into Premiere Pro the other day. Oh my God. It's too many buttons. But Premiere Rush is like trim, chop, speed up, slow down. So it's really good if you want to do like easy peasy editing.

[Tanya]

Oh that's interesting.

[Katie]

Okay Helen, what's your tech setup?

[Helen]

Well, I've got my big screen, my big Mac and I bought that. Oh probably 2020, still going strong. It's good. I use that for. So I make most of my artwork on paper and scan it in. I have a. Well, when we started the good ship, I had a 20 year old scanner. So I guess I've got a nearly 25 year old scanner now.

[Tanya]

Your scanner's famous.

[Helen]

I've dropped the scanner on the floor, on the wooden floor numerous times. Still going strong.

[Katie]

Amazing. They don't make them like they used to.

[Helen]

Yeah, it's an Epson style stylus photo scanner if anybody wants to know. A4 tiny dropped it number of times still goes strong. I use it to scan all of my work, get it in on Affinity or Photoshop. If sometimes I just hand in the paper work in paper form in the post. But sometimes I like to scan it in and alter little bits on Affinity or on Photoshop. So then I'll scan it in. So I scan it, fiddle with it a little bit and then that goes off to print. So my 2425 year old scanner is still the scanner that some of my books are printed on now. Isn't that mad?

[Katie]

It's a workhorse.

[Helen]

Yeah. So when we have all those messages from people saying please tell me what amazing brilliant scanner you've got. That must be the key to being a successful illustrator. No, no. Got an ancient scanner. What else have I got? I've got my iPad. It's the biggest you can get size wise because I made a couple of books using Procreate. So I bought the biggest iPad I could get which is still not big enough. I wish they would make an iPad like the size of a picture book. Open a picture book out, iPad that size please. Or a bit bigger so you could draw 110. That would be so good. And I tried buying the big Wacom Cintiq. Cintiq. I bought one of those, thought this will be it. It'll be like working on Procreate on my iPad. No, it was nothing like it. I hated it and I know a lot of people love them. I could not get to grips with it. I hated the feel of the pen, it was too light in my hand. It was really Rattly it felt like a disconnection somehow between where your pen touched the screen and where it drew. I just didn't get to grips with it. Like. Like a visual distance that you don't get. Like the art. There's something magic about the apple pen and the weight of it in your hand and how it genuinely feels like you're drawing on a piece of paper. It didn't have that feeling and I know loads of people love it and maybe I didn't give it long enough but I tried to illustrate a book on it, gave up halfway through and went back to Procreate. But I'm back to paper again. I. I really got into Procreate and I do really love it. But for me, I think my drawings look really good on Procreate with a light behind them. But then when I've seen them then printed on a piece of paper without that light behind, there's something about it. It doesn't have enough depth. So I think for me seeing it on a piece of paper because it's going to be printed on a piece of paper is really useful.

[Katie]

I was going to say maybe Procreate, like working digitally works well for digital display.

[Helen]

Yes. I love it for making images for my website and on Instagram because they've got the light behind them, they're used in that format. Whereas my illustrations. I felt like it was the answer. I was really enjoying it. Other than the iPad being too small, I thought this is great. I really love this.

[Tanya]

And you got Illustrator's boob.

[Helen]

I got sore. Oh my, my left arm, my boob. I got my, my terrible Illustrator's boob condition. Went to the hospital, had my boob felt up a few times and then realized I was just holding my iPad and I should have had a, you know, a little pull up table or a cushion on my. For my elbow. Yeah. So you know, I've just gone back to paper. I just love it. But I have, you know, I've got my iPad. I love it. I use it every day. I write my substack on it. I use it for sending out emails and I use it all the time. It's about five years old. It's been drop numerous times. It's got a crack across the screen. I love it. Still wish they'd make a bigger one. Other than that, love it.

[Tanya]

The other boring question is what on Procreate are you working in RGB or CMYK and do the printers like it? Is there as an easy output and color correction?

[Helen]

I'm working on in CMYK on it, but apparently CMYK on Procreate is not as good as CMYK on other software. Now, I'm really not techy and I don't understand it, but on forums I've been reading about this saying the CMYK setup isn't real or it's not as. I don't know. It's a while since I read up on it. I came out confused, thought, yeah, I'm just gonna press CMYK and use it anyway. The publisher had absolutely no problem with what I handed in. It printed accurate to the screen, no problem with it at all. So in my experience it's been fine. But I have heard other illustrators say they've handed stuff in from Procreate and the publishers have had to really mess around with the colour to make it work.

[Tanya]

I wonder if it's, you know, whether it's down to the art department, whether they used to Procreate files and color correction, or whether if it was a Walker book, maybe they're so on it that they. They can do it all themselves.

[Helen]

Walker Books sent me. They send everybody a list of what files they'll take, what software you can use, and Procreate wasn't on that list of software. So then I spoke to them and said, do you mind if I use Procreate? And they said, oh, yeah, it's not on there, but we have done a few books using Procreate.

[Katie]

Didn't Jarvis use?

[Helen]

Jarvis does, and so does Georgie Burkett. She does all amazing, beautiful Procreate artwork. I mean, that's Walker. So, yeah, it's totally doable. I think you should always discuss it with your publisher and say, I'm going to use Procreate. Are you happy with that? What settings do you want me to have?

[Tanya]

Well, given that it seems to be really. It's the Illustrator software of choice now, so everyone must be used to it. The other one that confused me there was Affinity, because if you output a file from Affinity, you could have a JPEG or something like that. But were there any problems in getting choosing the right file from Affinity?

[Helen]

I don't ever give the publisher layered files, so because they have Photoshop and they don't have Affinity. I suppose if you were handing in layered files, they would want. Because sometimes publishers do ask for that, but I just never give that because I don't want them to fill with my layers. If the layers need fiddling with, I want to do the fiddling.

[Tanya]

Absolutely.

[Helen]

So I don't ever hand in layered files anywhere. So it's Not a problem because I just save it as a tiff and send it.

[Tanya]

That's what I was going to ask. Do you send them a tiff?

[Katie]

Yeah, tiffs.

[Helen]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tanya]

Shall I do mine?

[Katie]

Yeah, whatever, go for it.

[Tanya]

Yeah. Always been on Photoshop, but I use the Vector tool, which is a bit counterintuitive to be on Photoshop with all those raster effects and just using the pen tool is my friend. I love the pen tool.

[Helen]

Really?

[Tanya]

Yeah.

[Katie]

So you're like doing vector stuff in.

[Tanya]

Photoshop, but it's not even real vector stuff. Using the pen creates that kind of sharp outline, but it's a bit map. It's like drawing with a ruler. I knew someone once who said. Did I remember an Illustrator he once knew who only drew with a ruler and used to draw eggs.

[Katie]

Oh, wow, he sounds great.

[Tanya]

That's Shaun Prentice, the poet told me about that Illustrator. And then I laughed and I thought, well, that's what you do, you draw with a ruler and a bit of brushstroke. But I'm thinking about what you said, Helen, about using the Wacom pen. I just. I feel sometimes I draw with brushes on Photoshop but I don't feel it's real. And there's still that big jump between what you could do with a digital brush on a screen and what you could do with a piece of paper and a brush is. So there's such a gulf between them in authenticity and accident. So I don't use the brushes that much. I used to a lot more, but anyway, so I work in Photoshop occasionally Illustrator, but it makes me cry all the way through it because I can't bear Illustrator and I use a Wacom stylus and an intuous pad and we were talking about this earlier. It's just like an old friend that you don't really like very much anymore, but you still can't do without them. I'm not the biggest fan of Wacom because the interface is a bit glitchy and I look longingly at at the Apple pencil. It just looks like the Rolls Royce of styluses and what Procreate can do. But I don't know, I've got a mental block. I just can't use Procreate because I'm so 25 years trained in Photoshop. It's all muscle memory. So I'm stuck there forever now and I've got a big screen and I was really upset when they retired the IMAC with the 27 inch cinema screen and I found that you couldn't just Buy a Mac studio and harness it up to your old 27 inch screen. You had to buy one of their 2,000 pound screens to go with a Mac Studio. So I don't have one of those, unsurprisingly. But I've got a big old screen which I can't. I think it's a Hewlett Packard. I can't quite remember. Which is weird to have any other tech company in my studio other than Adobe or Apple. And I use my laptop. I bought a MacBook Pro so that I can travel because that's what I really want to do for the next three years is do residencies and travel. Take the Wacom stylus, work on the MacBook Pro because it would. It's strong enough to power up the Photoshop, which of course the other one wasn't. It kept like squealing in agony every time. I ran Adobe on it and I bought an iPad but I barely use it and I'm so embarrassed. It's not a big one, it was a little trial one. And so I share that with my daughter because she loves it.

[Helen]

So.

[Tanya]

So I still can't get to procreate. One of these days I need to spend time with it and not try and do it on a job because that would be too difficult. Don't use a scanner much. Wish I could animate, but can't. But that's a future plan. So yeah, that's how I work.

[Katie]

I feel like. Cause I used to use a wacom. I think it was a wacom Bamboo Fun it was called and I was in love with it. Had it for years. I went backpacking with it. It was totally backed up and always worked. And I remember the jump from that to drawing on the iPad was a really steep learning cur because the bamboo, the Wacoms have got such a nice like the bit of friction, like a bit of resistance against the pencil and then. Or the stylus, whatever you call it. But then when you go to the iPad it's like ice skating and you're like whoa. So they're those paper, like I love.

[Tanya]

The paper, like screen.

[Helen]

I don't think I'd manage without it because your pencil slips around without it. A lot of people use those resistant nibs as well, which I've never tried. I've never changed the Nibama because I like the paper light screen.

[Katie]

It was the same as I've got my paper. Like I don't need a pen tip. Yeah, but I would.

[Tanya]

That'd be too much friction. Wouldn't It.

[Helen]

Yeah, yeah, there was.

[Tanya]

The slidey thing was really disconcerting.

[Helen]

You definitely need some sort of COVID Paperlike's quite expensive, but you can buy some cheap copies that are pretty good.

[Katie]

Also the stress of putting it on your iPad because it's got to be perfect. You're like, oh, okay, I can do this. And like, I've got bubbles in mine.

[Helen]

Yeah, you have to set up a whole day aside. Do some meditation before you start. I was going to say my iPad also, I bought. I bought one with two terabytes. I'm sounding like I know what I'm talking about. I have no idea what I'm talking about. But I had. Before I bought this iPad, I had one with a much lower memory or storage. See, I don't know the difference between memory and storage, but whatever, it had less capability. And so when I was working on Procreate, I could make six layers. That was it. It couldn't handle me doing any more than six layers. So when I bought this iPad, I bought one where I can make. I think I can do 60 layers. I never do 60 layers, but I think it gives you that capability, which is brilliant. So I wouldn't buy a. Buy one with low. What would it be?

[Katie]

I don't know either.

[Helen]

It's got the terabytes. Is that mean you need to get the maximum terabytes? I don't know. I don't know. But I got one with all the powers and I can do up to 60 layers, which is brilliant.

[Katie]

There's nothing worse than when you're trying to work on something and it's like memory full. Because my laptop started doing that, I feel like the MacBook Pro is rubbish.

[Tanya]

Fills up quicker.

[Katie]

Fills up quick. Even though I put everything on Dropbox and I try to be diligent about deleting my downloads folder and stuff, it still fills up, you know.

[Helen]

Yeah, they do. Do you use Dropbox a lot as well, Tanya?

[Katie]

We force you to. In good shape.

[Tanya]

Yeah, they force me to, but I don't understand it. I think it's like voodoo. I use it intuitively and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. A bit like the way I used to do long division and multiplication at primary school. I get to the right answ answer, but I do it the wrong way. It's actually most of my life is like that. But yeah, I'm scared of Dropbox. I just have to use the finder. But I'm getting better at it. And I don't use Creative. I have accidentally used Creative Cloud, but I'm not sure I understand it. But I do have a Tech Santa wish list. This is the thing that would make my life so much better is that I can use the iPad as the way instead of the Wacom stylus with the Apple pencil and it goes to my screen. And the closest I've seen to that is that you put Photoshop on your iPad, but you don't have the clear space to draw because it loads all the menus.

[Helen]

You get a tiny space.

[Tanya]

Yes, really.

[Helen]

Space to draw.

[Tanya]

Why can't the menus be on the big screen? And you draw looking at your iPad. You can see what you're doing, but it's replicated as well on the big screen.

[Helen]

I did, when I was using Procreate because some of the images were bigger. I did a book full of vignettes, but some of them were double page spreads. And a double page spread is smaller than my iPad. So then I was reflecting my iPad image onto my screen. So I was still drawing on my iPad and looking at my iPad, but I could keep looking at it on the screen. But I still don't think it. It didn't fix that for me. And when. When I saw the book out in print, I felt like those bigger spreads didn't have enough detail because I'd drawn them on a small screen, even with it reflected on the big screen. So, yeah, I'm back to paper again. I use Dropbox as well, but because I work on paper, I've just got a house full. I don't know how many books. I've done more than 50 books. And for every book I've got a folder of actual artwork. Our house is a fire hazard. It's absolute nightmare. And every year two more massive folders get added to the cupboard under the stairs. And I don't know what to do about it.

[Tanya]

Why don't you buy a storage place? Like a physical storage, like a real life draw Dropbox in a Frank Flanagan.

[Helen]

Could do with it. But I feel resistant to that because everybody has storage units, don't they? And you put stuff in your storage unit and then you'd never know what's in there and it stays there forever. I don't know. I could do something. I've been quite ruthless about the early books throwing out all the. Because I always keep a few rough drawings and things because it's nice to remember where the idea started. And if anybody actually comes and says to you, you stole my idea, you can prove, here's where it started. Look, there's the first.

[Tanya]

And when we set up the Helen Museum in Berwick, we'll want all of those things for the archives as well, so don't throw them away. But you have to be careful, don't you? I mean, people have lost their archives in fires. Yeah. In storage or in studios.

[Katie]

That's what I was thinking. If you put it in storage, you say putting all your eggs in one.

[Helen]

Storage and giving it to somebody else to look after.

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Helen]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what the answer is.

[Tanya]

We just went into the real world.

[Helen]

Maybe I'll have a bonfire on purpose.

[Tanya]

But if anyone knows how that thing, how we can make this magical connection work. If Adobe or Apple would like to speak to me about making this three way connection, I would be the perfect person.

[Helen]

Please make a massive iPad as big as the biggest Mac. A massive. Like. Like a big telly. Massive telly, you could call it. I want a massive one.

[Katie]

Call it the Maxi Pad, it'll be brilliant.

[Helen]

Right, get on it. Tanya, ring your contact, sort it out.

[Tanya]

Okay? We'll get it made.

[Katie]

Okay, on that note, that's the end.

[Tanya]

Of the tech gist, yeah?

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Helen]

Bye. Bye. Bye. Rubbish at saying goodbye, aren't we?

[Katie]

We are.