Brad Falchuk

Summary

The goop Podcast: Brad Falchuk on "Famous Last Words"

Host: Gwyneth Paltrow
Guest: Brad Falchuk
Date: October 14, 2025

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Overview

In this intimate episode, Gwyneth Paltrow sits down with writer-producer Brad Falchuk—her husband—to discuss his new Netflix series, Famous Last Words. The show features in-depth, posthumously-released interviews with iconic figures, offering them a rare opportunity to define their own legacies. The conversation dives into the show's origins, its unique approach to interviewing, its reflections on mortality, and Brad’s creative journey stepping into the spotlight for the first time.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Genesis and Format of "Famous Last Words"

• What Sets the Show Apart:
  • It is an interview series with very famous and very old guests, most in their 90s. The dialogue is recorded in an empty room—only Brad and the guest—to foster frankness and intimacy, with all cameras remotely operated.
  • Unlike other interviews, these are only aired after the subject’s death, usually within 48 hours. This ensures total candor and enables the interviewee to have the final word on their own legacy.
  • At the end of each interview, the guest looks directly into the camera and delivers their “famous last words.”

    “The idea is that after you die, everybody’s talking about you... This is an opportunity for them to say who they were.” – Brad (04:10)

2. Fostering Trust and Vulnerability

• Nontraditional Interview Style:
  • Brad notes that as a non-journalist, he offers safety and deep listening without a hidden agenda, allowing guests to relax and open up more than they would with press.
  • The crew’s absence is designed to ease their “armor,” revealing who they were before fame.

    “You can't fake safety. You can't fake that with somebody. Someone has to trust you.” – Brad (15:11)

• Example with Jane Goodall:
  • Jane discussed intimate details—including stories she hadn’t told her own son—reflecting the show’s power to elicit unfiltered honesty.

3. On Death and Cultural Taboos

• Centering Death in the Conversation:
  • Brad wants to confront death as life’s last taboo, believing it provides clarity and perspective on living authentically.
  • He shares his therapist’s insight:

    “We’re incomplete as a culture if death is not part of the conversation.” – Brad (20:10)

• Shared Wisdom from Subjects:
  • Near the end of life, guests typically focus not on fame or wealth, but love, relationships, and regrets about time not spent with family.

    “Nobody talked about money. Nobody talked about the joys of great fame... Who they were was their mission, their pain, their love for their family.” – Brad (22:18)

4. Brad Falchuk’s Personal Journey

• Choosing to Host:
  • Despite being private and averse to the limelight, Brad felt he was uniquely equipped to create a “safe space” for the guests. He believed safety and empathy were more relevant than journalistic prowess.
• Creative Collaboration and Challenges with Netflix:
  • There was much creative “fighting” and negotiation to bring the unconventional format to the streamer, but Brad credits Netflix’s willingness to ultimately support the vision.

    “Anything great is produced by a series of fights, you know, and a series of disagreements and a series of compromises...” – Brad (10:25)

• Artistic Fulfillment:
  • Brad describes the project as his most authentic artistic expression, integrating his curiosity and humanity.

    “This show is the expression of me in terms of being intimate and caring and curious and non-judgmental.” – Brad (43:02)

5. Reflections on Regret, Legacy, and Last Words

• Common Regrets:
  • Most guests express regret over time lost with loved ones.
  • Brad says his potential regret would be “not believing in myself enough.” (25:05)
• Advice for Living:
  • On being asked what he’d want his last words to be, Brad replies:

    “Nothing is more important than truth. And that integrity and truth, if you have those as your guideposts, everything's going to be okay.” – Brad (49:20)

6. The Importance of Non-Journalistic Curiosity

• Brad’s Approach:
  • As a “storyteller not a journalist,” Brad relies on deep research but lets conversations flow organically, always letting subjects set boundaries for off-limit topics.

    “I always ask them before ... is there anything you really do want to talk about? ... Anything you really don't want to talk about? ... I won't even ask you that.” – Brad (33:26)

• Letting Subjects Control Their Narrative:

  “This is a gift back to the people who have given us so much ... it’s their definition of who they are.” – Brad (36:15)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fame and Selfhood:

  “Famous people … have to have two identities … the public identity and the one … before they were famous. … My goal with the interview is to show everyone who doesn't know the person, the person before.” – Brad (06:12)

• On Cultural Attitudes Toward Death:

  “There is no taboo subject in the culture anymore except death. And so I wanted to break that.” – Brad (16:31)

• About Creating the Right Atmosphere:

  “Whatever they want in the room, they can have any beverages and we can stop, take a break … That was the same thing. Whatever they want.” – Brad (18:07)

• On Success and Talent:

  “Luck found them, but that's because they worked really, really hard. Every single one of them was tireless ... and they failed and they got up and they kept going.” – Brad (28:06)

• On Artistic Identity:

  “This feels like something that is just ... I can be really—I'm proud of everything I've done—... but in terms of being able to have them be peers of mine ... this feels like something that is just—I can be really ... I'm proud of everything I've done—... but in terms of saying, oh, this is an expression of me as an artist, this is the one that's beautiful.” – Brad (41:24)

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Important Timestamps

• [03:19] Brad describes the Famous Last Words show and its format.
• [06:06] Discussion on identity and trust with celebrity guests.
• [10:18] Gwyneth asks about Netflix’s reaction to the show’s unique format.
• [12:08] Show’s origin in Denmark and cultural impact there.
• [14:52] Brad on why he hosted despite disliking the limelight.
• [15:34] Building an atmosphere of safety for the interviews.
• [18:18] Death as a taboo subject, and why Brad seeks to break it.
• [22:15] Commonalities among guests’ reflections on life.
• [25:05] Brad’s own anticipated regret: not believing in himself.
• [28:06] Hard work and resolve, not luck, led to guests’ successes.
• [42:34] Brad on his own artistic growth and feelings after launching the show.
• [49:20] Brad’s advice for living: integrity and truth above all.

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Closing

The episode offers a contemplative, warm, and revealing conversation about life, legacy, the power of storytelling, and mortality. Brad Falchuk’s show, and their discussion of it, reminds listeners of the value in real, unguarded stories—especially those told at the threshold of life’s ultimate transition.

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“Nothing is more important than truth. And that integrity and truth, if you have those as your guideposts, everything's going to be okay.”
— Brad Falchuk (49:20)

Transcript

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more.

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[Gwyneth Paltrow]

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[Brad Falchuk]

When you are pioneering anything or introducing.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

New ideas to the culture, you get criticized. You do. Yeah, did you hear about that? I didn't find the one. I found someone I respected and we made it the one. In the sort of longing kind of view of love, people understand each other as if by magic. Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand. On the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that.

[Brad Falchuk]

Person that needs to be filled. I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And when you change your energy, you change your life. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the Goop Podcast, bringing together thought leaders, culture changers, creatives, founders and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers and seekers here to start conversations because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world. Here we go. Hi. Welcome to the Goop Podcast. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow and today I'm speaking to someone I care very deeply about, about an incredible new show that they have just launching on Netflix right now. Today, Brad Falchuk joins me to talk about his beautiful and groundbreaking new show on Netflix called Famous Last Words. Hi, Brad.

[Brad Falchuk]

Hi, honey.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Welcome to the Goop Podcast.

[Brad Falchuk]

Thanks for having me.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I'm so thrilled you're here.

[Brad Falchuk]

Well, I mean, we live together, so it was pretty easy to get together.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

True. Welcome to your living room so, Well, I always want to talk to you about everything because you're the smartest and most interesting person I know. Thank you.

[Brad Falchuk]

You're biased, but I appreciate it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

But I want to talk to you today specifically about the new project that you have out on Netflix, which is, I think, an incredibly profound and important new show. And I'm not just saying that because I'm married to you. For those of you who are not aware of this show yet, it is called Famous Last Words, and I would love for you to explain a little bit about what the show actually is.

[Brad Falchuk]

Well, thank you for that. So the show is an interview show, but it's very different than any other interview show that anyone's ever seen. And so what we do is we have guests who are very, very famous and very old. So most of the people we have interviewed have been in their 90s. And we built a special set that is manned by five cameras that are remotely controlled. So the cameramen aren't in the room, they're somewhere else, and they're not listening to what's being said. So the whole set is locked down. There's nobody in the room but the guest and me doing the interviews and throughout the whole time, because the idea is that they can have a really honest conversation. They can talk about anything they want, and they can really define themselves, because we don't air the interview until after they pass away. So they know it's safe, they know it's locked away. They know they can say anything they want. And they also know that it'll be airing at a moment because we air it right after they pass away, within 48 hours. And we're actually. The first one was in 48 hours. We're trying to get it actually faster than that. The idea is that after you die, everybody's talking about you, everybody's defining you, everybody is saying who you were. And this is an opportunity for them to say who they were, both in terms of the long form of the interview. And then at the end of the interview, I step out and they look directly into camera and they say what they're. The message they want to leave the world was their last words, so to speak.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

They say their famous last words.

[Brad Falchuk]

They say their famous last word. Exactly. And so it allows them to get the last word right.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So the first one that has aired, only one has aired so far, and it was on Dr. Jane Goodall, who was an extraordinary woman I was so struck in the interview by. There was a moment in the interview where you talk about kind of the icon that she is and then also the seven year old girl that she is and how she sort of acknowledges that she holds both at the same time and was kind of perplexed even by the icon part. And she seemed very comfortable talking to you. So one of the reasons I love the show too is it's in the best way. You are not a journalist. Like you are not going for the jugular. You're not trying to get something incendiary or gossipy out of the person. And I think you make your subjects feel so comfortable and they clearly trust you so much. I mean, she clearly in the episode, trusts you so much. So how, how do you engender that kind of safety and trust in your subjects?

[Brad Falchuk]

In terms of the icon part, it's. And maybe it's, it's. It's kind of related is that, you know, I think that, that famous people in general have to have two identities. They have to have a public identity and the one that everyone sort of thinks they know because it's real, it's part of who they are. But then there was the person they were before they were famous, right? There's a little girl, the little boy who was not that. And it's very hard sometimes probably to protect that, I imagine. I don't know. You tell me. This is something that sometimes gets confused. I see clearly the delineation between the two for you, but I don't know if that's true for everybody.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

How do you see that?

[Brad Falchuk]

I mean, I think it's about being able to. And this gets the second part of the question. It's being able to see you not being reflected by other people. Right. I see you here at home, I see you in your life. I see you with the people that knew you before that. And so in that space, it's easier for you to just be yourself. And then in the outside space with people you don't know, it's harder. And so my goal with the interview is to show everyone who doesn't know the person, the person before is to get to. That is to say, and this is why I want to do the interviews instead of a journalist is that I think that most of these people have done hundreds if not thousands of interviews in their lives.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, for sure.

[Brad Falchuk]

And there's a crouch you go into when you do them. I've seen it. And I didn't want them to go into that. I wanted them to be able to just be relaxed. Which is why when we walk on the set, there's nobody there. I mean, when we. The entire time, throughout the beginning of reaching out to them until the end of the interview, they interact with almost nobody except me. And the idea is we can relax, to really try and understand who they were before. And so my goal is not to get started some salacious piece of information. There's no agenda. I've researched them extensively. Weeks of research and learning and knowing more about them than they know about themselves. But with the idea being I'm gonna make them feel safe enough to talk about anything. And so they do. You know, I mean, Jane, I think, talked very intimately about her ex husbands and how she felt about them.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

She talked about, I mean, in ways that she had never spoken about things before.

[Brad Falchuk]

Never before. Yeah. And in ways that she realized after saying it that she hadn't even told her son about. About his father. And so. And she talked about having a love that was, you know, a little bit romantic and illicit. Yeah. And she talked about people she was not happy with. Like, she very much opened up and was very comfortable. And that was my goal. And I know it's very different than anything most people have seen. And so the experience is very different because most interviews aren't safe.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

How did you get Netflix on board with this? In watching a lot of the Netflix programming these days, it's very sort of, you know, popcorn y. It's very. And I know they're really driving towards people not turning something off and, you know, just in understanding, like, the metrics of success at Netflix, like, they really want people to stick with something. And this interview show is so markedly different not only from anything on Netflix, but anything, any interview show I've ever seen. There are no cutaways. There are no clips. There are no bells and whistles whatsoever. It's you and the subject. There's not even music. I mean, there are none of those cheats that typically producers put in in order to, like, redirect or recapture attention or anything like that. It's like this beautiful, quiet, incredibly intimate thing that is riveting, but with none of those tricks. So how did you. I mean, were Netflix. Like, this is weird. Like, did they know how to slot this in? Like, what was your experience of getting it made?

[Brad Falchuk]

I think that. I think that anything great, anything that anyone sees, that's great, I think this is great. Not just because I made it, I've made bad stuff, but I think this is great. And I think anything great is produced by a series of fights, you know, and a series of disagreements and a series of compromises and all that. And so the one thing I'll say about Netflix, which has been true with everything I've done with them, is that they have ideas, but they're really willing to lose fights, which I find admirable. Like, you can get them there and so they want.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And is that typical? Just so I know, in any studio, like, are there always fights to make something great?

[Brad Falchuk]

Anything great is fights.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Anything.

[Brad Falchuk]

If you listen, if you're painting, pick something on your own, then there's, you know, then there's no fights, I suppose, except with yourself.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right.

[Brad Falchuk]

But any piece of art that's a movie or a TV show or anything in collaboration. Collaboration, there's always going to be disagreements. And I say fights. It's not fights. It's just people having different ideas and finding out which one is best.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

So I'll say with Netflix, with this, they were 100% supportive the whole time. They got it. They didn't. And we didn't always get exactly what it should be, but we found it and we found it all together. And I'm, you know, I have no complaints about. About how they've had. They've been. Because we were trying to do something so new.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

So different.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

That I had doubts throughout.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

So. So it's. It's the perfect place for it, because now it's everywhere in the world and no place else can do that. And they're not looking at necessarily the ratings of it in that way. They're looking to build it as a larger brand that can go all over the world and interview in multiple different languages and all that. So when I say fights, I say it in a good way.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So the show is based on a Danish show.

[Brad Falchuk]

Based on a Danish show. My producing partner named Mikkel Bondeson went back to Denmark during COVID Right. And while he was there, he saw an episode of this show and was blown away and said, we should bring this to Netflix.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And you mentioned that in Denmark, it's become a phenomenon, like a cultural phenomenon.

[Brad Falchuk]

Yeah. When somebody passes away who's famous in Denmark, there's an immediate hope that they've done the show because people really want a little more time with them. People really want to hear what they have to say about themselves. And so we connected with the creator, who's also named Michelwood McHale and Banijay there, and spoke with them, and we realized we had the same values, we had the same idea of what the show could be, and they amazingly trusted us with bringing it into Netflix. We brought it into Netflix, and that was that but it's aired. I think they've aired 20 in Denmark.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Oh, wow.

[Brad Falchuk]

Or maybe they've shot 20 and they've aired 10. They've shot a lot. And once it started airing, they were able to shoot a lot more. And Mikhail, who's the host and creator in Denmark, has been just such an invaluable resource for me because it's a strange job.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. So I want to talk to you a little bit about making that big segue to being in front of the camera, which you've never been before. And also, I know you really well, and you're not. You never seek the limelight. You've never pushed through in a crowd. You know, when you've won the Emmy or whatever to try and. You know what I mean? Like, you're a very private person. You don't crave the limelight, and you don't try to create that for yourself. So why did you decide? I mean, you spoke a little bit about this earlier, but why did you decide that it had to be you? I mean, because it could have also been another non journalist, for example. And why. I know why I think you did.

[Brad Falchuk]

And why. Why do you think I did it?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Well, I think anybody who knows you or sits next to you at a dinner party, I can't tell you how many times I've had the experience where the person comes to me after and I was like, Brad is just so thoughtful and such a safe person. I've heard that word about you a number of times. Like, one person told me he should work for the CIA. Like, in 10 minutes, I told him everything I've ever, you know, all my secrets. And I think you have a very reassuring, calm presence, which I think. Exactly. You know, famous people do have armor up all the time, and you can kind of dismantle that armor. But certainly somebody else might have been able to do it. Right. So why you?

[Brad Falchuk]

They might have, but I didn't know how to explain that to somebody. I didn't know how to explain what I was seeing in the show. How do I explain? Like, no, it's different. And it's just about. It's about a feeling that people will have both sitting in the room and also watching and then going to find that person. And you talk about an enormous amount of work. I mean, no, not only do I not. I not seek out the spinelight, the limelight, I hate it. I don't like it. I'm uncomfortable. I was uncomfortable going in front of the camera. I would probably have had a hard time if there were cameramen in the room, the fact that we walk in and it's the two of us alone in a room, you would never know a show is being shot there. We just sit and talk. And so.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And the cameras are hidden, or the.

[Brad Falchuk]

Cameras can be seen and they. And they move, but there's no way of. There's no sense of them. It's just the two of us looking at each other, and we're very close. And you have to usually lean in because these are older people, and you have to really listen. And the qualities that I thought were so important were safety and curiosity and real listening. Like, real listening. And I thought that the other stuff, in terms of some of the technical stuff, of how to do an interview and ask questions, I would figure out or get better at. But you can't fake safety. You can't fake that with somebody. Someone has to trust you. And these people are trusting me with something so big, which is that I'll be dead. Do I trust you to carry my words to the world? Are you going to do this in a way that's respectful of me and understanding of me? And also, do I trust you to tell you things that I've never told anybody before? And do I trust you to talk about the subject that nobody ever wants to talk about, which is death? It's the one taboo, right? You go on all these podcasts and everybody's talking about sex now as every possible thing, and talking shit about people they know, and it's like, this is a. There is no taboo subjects in the culture anymore except death. And so I wanted to break that and say, no, we're going to talk about death the way we talk about anything, with no judgment and with a real safe space. And so it's hard to say to somebody, you know, when you ask someone about. When you tell someone, well, you're dead, you look at them and you say, you're dead. How do you make them feel safe when you do that and have them not react? So I didn't know how to do that, and I said, I think I can do that. My greatest satisfaction and seeing people's reaction to the show is how much they're talking about the show, how much talking about her and how nobody's talking about me. That's a win, right?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You know, and that's what's happening. It's going a bit viral, and people are really, I think, blown away by the conceit of the show and then also by her and what she says, what she shares and I think people are so moved. And I think my favorite was one of our friends. John said, it's the greatest whiskey commercial of all time.

[Brad Falchuk]

She was a real drinker, man. I was impressed by her. She could really just keep going.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Amazing.

[Brad Falchuk]

But that was, again, that was the same thing. Whatever they want in the room, they can have any beverages and we can stop, take a break and have a snack. They can take a nap. She didn't. She just kept going. But, yeah, she's an extraordinary woman. And the idea was to say, find extraordinary people.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I want to go back to the subject of death being a taboo and how you're interested in breaking that taboo. Is there a reason why particularly you want to help break that taboo?

[Brad Falchuk]

I think that we are living in a time that's challenging. Jane said it herself. It's dark time for lots of reasons. And I think one of the reasons why it's so dark is that people seem to have forgotten that they're going to die. They seem to think they're going to go on forever. And so when you think they're going forever, greed and jealousy and selfishness and violence and all these things seem acceptable because you just want more, more, more. And so I think that reminding everybody they're going to die, hopefully will allow them to maybe re center themselves, say, wait a second, what am I doing? None of this that I'm doing is going to come with me, you know, and so, you know, everybody wants so much attention now. Everybody wants so much adulation and fame and all these things. And it's like, you know what you're gonna be? Everyone's forgotten. Yeah, everyone does. And so the idea of death being in everybody's lives all the time, I mean, if you think it's a cliche, but you think about the people who are, you know, the plane is going down and they, you know, what are they thinking about in that moment? And they're not thinking about how much money they have. They're not thinking about the people they've dominated or hurt. They're not thinking about those things. They're thinking about the people they love. They're thinking about regrets they've had, things they didn't do. And so I kind of want everybody to have that on their mind a little bit more.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, make us maybe a little more.

[Brad Falchuk]

And, you know, our therapist was brilliant. Said to me during this process, he was really helpful in getting me sort of in the right headspace for. It was like, we're incomplete as a culture if death is not part of the conversation.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

And we need to bring it back into it. It's okay. You're gonna die. We're all gonna die. It's the one thing that the two things we all share, we're all born and we all die. We all share it and yet we don't talk about it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

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[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-844botox to learn more. So interestingly, the first episode to air was actually the last one that you shot. You shot it? When? When was it?

[Brad Falchuk]

We shot that in March. So really recently.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And you're not at liberty to say the other people?

[Brad Falchuk]

I am not. Never will.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

But I wonder if you could talk about any common themes. You touched on it a little while ago. But, you know, are there any kind of common commonalities throughout your subjects that surprised you?

[Brad Falchuk]

You know, I said it in the New York Times, asked me something like that and I said, you know, nobody was. People like Jane knew there was more to do, but she also knew she was passing along. She'd created this whole group of young people, these roots and shoots, who were going to take over for her. So she knew it was coming up to the time to pass the torch on. But no one talked about money. Nobody talked about the joys of, you know, of great fame. It wasn't all of the, all of the things that I think a lot of young people strive for and granted, these people achieved a lot of that, though. Many of them aren't wealthy, achieved a lot of that. And looking back, it really wasn't the core of who they were. Who they were was their mission, was their pain, was their love for their family. You know, it's almost unsurprising, you know, how centered everyone is when talking about their own death on the same kind of things, which is what's actually important. And we talk that up a lot as no focus on what's really important. And those are the things that are really important.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Are there any commonalities in the regrets?

[Brad Falchuk]

I think everybody, in some way, who had kids would have liked to have spent more time with them. Everybody would have, really. They know they didn't. I mean, they accomplished a lot. And generally, you know, it's. You have to give something up to get something. And most of them, I think, and most of all of us in some way gave up time with people we cared about in order to accomplish something. It's just how it works. You really can't have both. No matter how hard you tried, you really can't have both. Well, yeah, you got as close as anybody.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Well, I stopped working.

[Brad Falchuk]

There you go. So you made a choice. Right. And that's that spring Springsteen thing that he said from the river tour when he said, you know, the value.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Oh, yeah, yeah, that thing.

[Brad Falchuk]

You know that thing. The value of something is measured by what we give up to get it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right. Right, right, right. I shouldn't say stop working. I should say I gave up starring in films all the time.

[Brad Falchuk]

You change. Certainly change. You change your priorities pretty dramatically.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yep.

[Brad Falchuk]

Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Which, you know, I. And hearing you talk about that, like, I think I feel a relief that if I was 91 and doing this show, I don't think I would say that.

[Brad Falchuk]

No, No. I think you'd say I just should have been nicer to myself.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That's for sure. What about you? What would you say to yourself? What would your regret be?

[Brad Falchuk]

Looking back, I don't know. Hopefully it won't be, but my regret would be for a lot of people, my regret would probably be I should have believed in myself more.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. Is the success of this show helping you believe in yourself more?

[Brad Falchuk]

It just started. I don't know. You know, we'll see. I mean, I don't think anything externally actually changes that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Agree.

[Brad Falchuk]

I think I know too many people who have so much external success and it's made no difference. I know lots of people who. I know a few people who I really respect who haven't had that and still believe in themselves. Completely. And so the work is to actually believe in yourself first and then get the external stuff because then it's just fun. So I feel like. I feel like I'm getting there.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. Do you have a practice to get there?

[Brad Falchuk]

We have a great therapist.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yep.

[Brad Falchuk]

And I focus on making everything that mission, everything. So every, you know, when you, when, you know, especially nowadays working in Hollywood, there's a lot of disappointment and no's.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

A lot of really hard work that leads to unsatisfying endings. And so my approach is always as a practice is to say everything is an opportunity for one mission, which is to get closer to yourself, believe in yourself more, accept yourself more, all these things. And so when those things come up, even though the sting happens, I say, okay, that sting, sting now is just is me putting meaning into this, which is that, oh, there you go. There's proof that I wasn't good enough. There's proof that I shouldn't have taken this chance. There's proof that other people are better than me and say, no, no, that's actually the stuff the world to play in. How am I gonna react to that? How can I feel this sting and make it not indicative of this lie that I've told myself a long, long, long time ago? And so you'll end up looking. I end up looking forward to. I'd rather win, but I end up also looking forward to losses. To know that those are where the strengths are going to come from. And then the wins will come. You know, they come and they go. And then they're also not indicative of me being wrong. Right. They're not telling me anything except that this one worked out. And so that's kind of my practice is to really make it be the only thing that really matters, the only measure of anything is how did I react to that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So everybody that you've interviewed obviously is known enough for it to make a cultural impact when the show comes out. They're very, very well known people in terms of. I'm wondering again if there's any sort of common thread around their success and their personality in the sense of, you know, how they do. You feel like, oh, it was just kind of luck that these people became this way. Or do you think that it was resolve?

[Brad Falchuk]

It was never luck. Luck found them, but that's because they worked really, really hard. Every single one of them was tireless. And whatever the path they chose, they had the talent, but they never, ever gave up. They never hesitated and they failed. And they got up and they kept going. And also the common theme is definitely. And all these people who I interviewed are still busy.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

They're still doing stuff. They don't.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. I mean, Jane Goodall was on a speaking tour.

[Brad Falchuk]

Yeah. She never ever stopped. I don't. I think she spent a few days at home a year.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Wow.

[Brad Falchuk]

And so my thing is always that luck favors the prepared, is that, like, luck finds you when you're good and you're working really hard. And all these people worked their asses off. Absolutely. You know.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. Can you say sort of what other areas these people's professions are in?

[Brad Falchuk]

I don't want people to make guesses.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay, then forget.

[Brad Falchuk]

But I just say that they're all iconic culturally.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right.

[Brad Falchuk]

And so in their particular fields, they have an iconic quality. So anybody who. Who is into whatever that is will know who they are. They can impact people. Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Who would. Who would be your. Who is a kind of a dream guest that you haven't done yet? Can you say that?

[Brad Falchuk]

I can't say that because maybe we did them.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Darn.

[Brad Falchuk]

Who would have been a dream guest? I don't know. Nixon would have been a dream guest. And why? Just because I would love to get a really honest conversation with him. You know, I think he was a brilliant guy.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

And he changed the presidency and he changed the country, and he had a big scandal and he had a lot of. He had a big chip on his shoulder. And so I think he would have been somebody who would be interested to get the truth from.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

You know, a real true him would have been interesting because, you know, it was. It's very clear. It seems very clear that he was a. He was a sad guy.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

And so wouldn't have been cool to see the sadness, to really see it, you know, And I think, you know, I'm open to interviewing people who maybe aren't totally beloved. Everyone we have interviewed is. Is that. But who are not. Because I think it's important also to humanize everybody so that everyone understands people that do troubling things. Maybe not evil things, but troubling things. Like, you know, they're not freaks. They're human, just like us. And that's even. That's very important for us to know so that we can check ourselves. Not because you're going to change anybody, but it's like, it's not fair to just look at them as some kind of external, different version of human. Like. No, they're just like us.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Well, I think that's the sort of. I don't know. If it's a mistake, just kind of an axiom. But what we do around people who are well known in our culture, we kind of strip them of their. We want to strip them of their foibles and fallacies and their humanity. Right. We want them to, which is why we tear people, you know, build people up and tear them down. We don't. There's no great pervasive understanding of everybody's human. Everybody has darkness in them, everybody has light. We all have bad instincts, we all have good instincts, you know, and it's sort of of a fight through that.

[Brad Falchuk]

Yeah. And that's, again, the point of the show is that for the first time, unless you know them, you see these people as humans. Because every other point of access to them has been controlled. They've been controlled. The person giving access has been controlled. And so we forget. And so the idea of the show is to remind you that, no, they were just people. They were just little kids who grew up and destroyed, decided to do these things and accomplished a lot.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

The other thing that I think is really great about you doing this is I think I have almost never encountered an interview in my life. Almost never. Maybe a couple of times where the journalist doesn't already know exactly what they're going to write or exactly what they want to get across. And I'm just supplying quotes for that narrative, essentially. Do you think that you not being a journalist helps? Like, for example, I would be so interested just. If I got a cold call about this, If I was 90 years old, you know, I would be so deeply interested to do this and tell my. Tell my story and speak. You know, I'm somebody who's had quite a lot projected onto them throughout. Are you aware.

[Brad Falchuk]

I've heard. I've heard from other people that you have.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And so you obviously go in very agnostic. I mean, you do a lot of research, you know a lot about them, but you can tell that you're not. You haven't created a narrative that you're trying to shape them into. But have there been things that you really want them to discuss, reveal?

[Brad Falchuk]

I mean, there's usually what they reveal. I didn't know. Right. Because it's not in the research, of course. Right. And so. But. Or. And I always ask them before I say, is there anything you really do want to talk about? Is there anything that's really important to you? Because we will definitely cover that. And is there anything you really don't want to talk about? And I won't talk. I won't even Ask you that. I won't even try.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right. That's so lovely.

[Brad Falchuk]

Well, it's theirs. It's a service to them. That's how I tell them. I said, this is for you. Right? This is your chance to speak to the world. You've given so much to the world. This is your chance to speak to the world. So whatever you want it to be, it can be. And then in that space in the research, sometimes I think it helps, not being a journalist, but being a storyteller, you start to see patterns of ways that people are and things about them that are interesting and that. That maybe in certain areas of their life might have had an impact. So I try and know that those subjects are maybe interesting to talk about from an angle that is fresh, you know. So if we're talking about their love life, we're talking about their childhood. Be some things I saw about their relationship with their mom that I feel like, well, this is kind of interesting, something here that's affected that marriage later in life, you know, which is pretty obvious. But they haven't talked about it necessarily in that way before. I mean, with. With Jane, when we got on to talking about her marriages, you know, where. Where. Where it sort of pivoted was when she said who. Who she was going to. Who. Who she'd want waiting for her when she arrived in heaven.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Her mother.

[Brad Falchuk]

Her mother and her chimps and not her husband's. And so that, to me, is interesting. Right. I didn't know she was going to say that. I mean, she got divorced from both husbands. So maybe usually when that happens, there's not a. There's a reason for it. But it could also be a great heartbreak that she did. But I didn't expect her to say that. And so to sort of move into that and then to move into, okay, she didn't love them, or she loved them in the way she could at the time. But was there anyone she did love that way? So those are just sort of pivots that happen. I think, again, with listening and with making sure she knows that whatever she tells me, I'm not gonna react to. I'm not gonna feel like, oh, I got something, or, ooh, that's gross, or whatever.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Has anybody finished and said, you know what? I regret that I said that? I would like you to edit it out?

[Brad Falchuk]

Not yet, but if they do, I tell them right away before we start, that if there is anything ever, even the next day, that they say, you know what? I said that about so and so, and that they're still alive, and I don't want to do that. Then we would take it out.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right? That's so nice.

[Brad Falchuk]

As I say, like, this is, this is. This is a. This is a gift back to the people who have given us so much, and this is their definition of who they are. And hopefully in that safe space, they can talk about anything. And maybe afterwards they say, you know what that was, that was too far, but it hasn't happened yet.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Has anybody said to you before you start the interview, I'd rather stay away from this subject or that subject?

[Brad Falchuk]

A couple, but. But they weren't what you'd expect.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Interesting.

[Brad Falchuk]

Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Ooh, I wish I could know what that was. I mean, you said a lot about the. The making of it, but, like, it was from my point of view, you know, it's really interesting being married to you and also being so close to people who are in the industry and that there seems to be this kind of like, let's get to the broadest base, like the kind of. Not lowest common denominator in a bad way, but kind of like, what is the most, you know, what is the cheapest, most effective way to reach as many people and keep people, you know, really engaged? And this show is just so different to that, you know, so, like, when you did the first episode, whenever that was, which has not aired, I know that there were different ideas about and you all found the show together, but were you coming up against that sort of like streaming platform? Like, well, our data says that. And, you know, in second eight, if we don't have this, then. Cause I've heard other friends say, you know, they get notes like that from the streamers, like, or all of these notes that. That are designed just to make people finish an episode and start the next episode. Right.

[Brad Falchuk]

And that's someplace like Netflix, that's their business model. And so I have no problem when I'm writing, writing to that, right? To say, okay, well, I want success here. So we're making a show for Netflix. I want success on Netflix, which is different than success other places.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And that's not like constraining.

[Brad Falchuk]

I mean, it's just different, the storytelling, Right. And so you say, okay, how do I tell this story that that's going to help me get success here? And if you're trying to make something that is. Would be successful somewhere else, that would be constraining.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right, right.

[Brad Falchuk]

And the thing about this show is obviously totally different than everything else.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, it's like this anomaly, very new.

[Brad Falchuk]

And so it's hard to Explain something like that. Right. It's just like, you have to just work with it. But they saw it. They just. But it was. It just. It just took. It just took a lot of back and forth to get it there.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

You know, it was. It was challenging process, because anything, anytime you're doing something kind of different, it's challenging.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

But I also know that I got a lot out of that process of learning about what the show should be and who I should be and all of that. So, like I said, you know, I can't say enough about the support that sort of Ted gave me and a lot of the other executives there really gave me to say, you know, this is a show we bought, so let's make it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You know, I think Ted really, at the end of the day, is somebody who cares so much about moments like quality and artistry and vision, you know, And I actually should have him on this podcast because I'm really curious, like, how. How one holds both commerciality and art at the same time. It's a really hard balance.

[Brad Falchuk]

It is.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

And, you know. Yeah. I just took him, you know, to complain about a process when it worked out.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

No, no, it's not right. You know what I mean? No, what I mean is even to even to criticize a process or criticize anybody involved in the process, it's like whatever anyone was doing during that process led to what everybody saw is watching on. And so everybody was doing the right thing. And the truth was that we needed to forge this in that fire.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Totally. I just think, as your partner, it was like, watch. It was a little bit of a hero's journey. There were a lot of pushbacks and a lot of obstacles along the way in finding this incredible jewel of a show and how it is.

[Brad Falchuk]

I think that's right. But that's what I said earlier is like, thank goodness, because I'm different now, because having gone through that and thank goodness also, the people that I was having this agreements were also believed in what the show could be and also were champions of mine at the same time.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes.

[Brad Falchuk]

And so I'm glad that that all happened. And I'm also. I understand that, like, if my. If my idea in doing this show is to provide a service to these wonderful people, I need to be as strong as I can be to do that. I need to be able to really be able to hold anything they bring me, and for them to really trust me. So anything that provides me more belief in myself and more strength is going to be a really valuable thing. And I also think, I don't know, we have so many friends who are real artists, right. Who have put out just art into the world and, you know, I know what that takes, but I never felt connected to anything in the same way in terms of doing that, in terms of being able to have them be peers of mine. And this feels a little like that. This feels like something that is just. I can be really. I'm proud of everything I've done. Like I said, some of it sucks, but I'm proud of everything I've done. But in terms of saying, oh, this is an expression of me as an artist, this is the one that's beautiful.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So happy to hear you say that. Kind of makes me cry. How do you, like, what is it saying to you about you? That this is who you are as an artist and that you put it into the world. What are you gleaning from that? Because when you were talking, there was a bit of self discovery and.

[Brad Falchuk]

I don't know, I mean, you know, there's always. Everybody has self doubt, right?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

So I certainly am not immune from that. In fact, you know, probably reside somewhere in the middle of self doubt. I just feel like, you know, people may hate the show, they may love the show, they may be critical, they may be celebratory. Like this is such an expression of me in terms of the feeling of it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

Like, if you're curious, well, who, who is he? Like this show is the expression of that in terms of being intimate and caring and curious and non judgmental and all of these things and, and respectful and all that. And so to have that out in the world and people reacting to feels, feels like people are, are acknowledging my way of being in the world.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

You know, which isn't everywhere, you know, and so I don't know, it's so early. Like, you know, you're so, you know, usually when you premiere something, there's a huge lead up to it and all this press and all this preparation and then you get ready and then it comes out. This was like a sudden shock and a terrible, sad shock because. Yeah, because I mean, the Jane you see in the, in the, in the show, that's her. Like she, she. You don't want her to go?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

No.

[Brad Falchuk]

And I absolutely adored her. And the time I spent with her was kind of life changing. It was just a few hours, but it was kind of life changing. And so seeing that she had passed was really upsetting and shocking. And so I'm still kind of dealing with that while launching A show while trying to figure out how to market a show that is unmarketable.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Well, it's just catching on. It's just doing its thing.

[Brad Falchuk]

Yeah. And so. So I don't know yet. I don't know. I don't know yet.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay.

[Brad Falchuk]

Just. This is literally the subject I'd like talking about the least.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yourself?

[Brad Falchuk]

Myself. We'll happy to talk about anything and everything. Can we talk about baseball or World War II or springs Teen songs or anything like that? Or you. Those are subjects I would love to talk about for hours and hours and hours. But talking about me, I'm squirming.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay, well, then I will ask you about your other interests, because, like, you. You. You always say you. You have very few, very deep interests. Right. And you just name them all. Certainly not having dinner parties and socializing.

[Brad Falchuk]

I think I like. I think I like it. It just. It just. It just makes me tired with the right people.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You're an introvert.

[Brad Falchuk]

I think I am.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You think? Really? And you often credit. Or we not credit. You often talk about Bruce Springsteen as like, your kind of biggest influence in a lot of ways, of course. The Red Sox and Tom Brady, we can't forget about him. But in terms of, you know, I mean, Springsteen is really like a philosopher and a poet in his own way. So do you feel like, you know, because you are a man who is also a poet and a philosopher, and that really comes through. You're also incredibly curious. But I'm not sure Bruce Springsteen is or not. But I wonder, you know, having grown up listening to his work, like, do you think that that has shaped you in terms of how you regard people and in terms of how you might approach getting to know people?

[Brad Falchuk]

I mean, I think Bruce has, you know, the music has, you know, sort of infected everything, you know. You know, I was telling you the day because that, like, talking to Steven Spielberg got me through the years his movies did. It taught me so much about life and about ways of being and about courage and about curiosity and about wonder and about magic and all these things. But Bruce, you know, got me through the days. It was like every day. I needed him.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Wow.

[Brad Falchuk]

You know, and I still do, you know, to just. To just fulfill a longing or something that's always there. I mean, I think his music is. What I think I relate to the most is the longing in it. And all of his stuff has that in it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

And I don't know where that comes from. And I mean, I read his book and all that stuff, but it's. It's it's so in the music. And you. When you go to a concert, I mean, everybody's having the same experience. It's like this longing is getting pulled out of you and satisfied, you know, and it can be a sad song, can be a happy song, but it just feels like you're striving for something, to feel something.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Sounds like church. What? Churches.

[Brad Falchuk]

It is. There's something. There's some connection he has to that particular feeling that is very special. And I. I think that feels to me, and I bet you if you ask most Springsteen fans that, that's. That maybe the defining emotion they have in them is a longing. And so it goes back to what I was saying before, is that the only dream is that you would make something worthy of these great artists that you. That have inspired you and you admire. So these great artists like Stephen or Bruce, it's like they make the most beautiful things ever, you know, the most incredible movies and the most incredible music. And it's like, can I ever do that? Can I ever provide that? And I think I've written plenty of, like I said, plenty of good stuff, but something in this feels transcendent in the way that some of their stuff does. I would never compare myself to them, but, you know, I've always been striving to. To live up to that ideal of what they provided for me as. As artists.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Have you interviewed Bruce Springsteen for this show?

[Brad Falchuk]

I'm not saying I can't. What I'm going to say, anytime anyone asks me, I'm going to say yes to everyone because I'm a terrible liar. And so no one will ever believe me when I say no if they actually. I have. So, yes, everybody you have interviewed everybody on everybody. Anybody you can imagine that I interviewed? No. I would have a lot, certainly a lot to ask, but he's probably too young, I think, so he's doing great, but I don't know. I'm not alone in my passion for Bruce. There's a whole radio station dedicated just to him. I'm not the only person that only listens to Bruce Springsteen.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes, this is very true. So as we get to the end of this beautiful conversation, have you thought about what your last words would be, meaning? You know, what. What is the significance that you've brought into the world so far? And how. How would you like to be remembered?

[Brad Falchuk]

That. I don't know. Like to remember it? I don't know. That's hard, right? I don't know how to. How I would control that. I mean, I would.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And I guess it's hard. It's a hard question to answer anyway. But you're only halfway through your life, and I know you feel like you so much more left to accomplish. But in terms of the, like, human side.

[Brad Falchuk]

I guess I would say that maybe the one lesson that I have that I think I have learned, that I think would provide the most value, is that nothing is more important than truth. And that integrity and truth, if you have those as your guideposts, everything's going to be okay.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

And that when you lose sense of that is when things get a little murky and confusing.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes.

[Brad Falchuk]

And there's a difference between honesty and truth.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Brad Falchuk]

Like, we have a lot of honesty now. A lot. Everybody's telling you everything about everything about themselves. That's not their truth, and that's not the truth of what's going on. And so something, in my last words, would be to really strive for real truth and to never lose your integrity and to find somebody you truly love and that. And then everything will take care of itself.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay, last question. What would you like for dinner tonight?

[Brad Falchuk]

Well, this is very important. I don't know. They could do something simple. We can, like, roast a chicken or. I mean, you can roast a chicken, and I can help sous chef.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That would be perfect. On this rainy day with the light.

[Brad Falchuk]

Of fire, Just us. Not drink.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

What else is new?

[Brad Falchuk]

Have a nice salad with one of your standby vinaigrettes. Yep, that would be good.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Thanks for tuning in. This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow rate, and review all of our episodes, which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.