Charli XCX

Summary

The goop Podcast: Charli XCX

Host: Gwyneth Paltrow
Guest: Charli XCX
Date: November 4, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of the goop podcast explores creativity, authenticity, and the messiness of womanhood with Charli XCX, one of the most innovative and boundary-pushing voices in contemporary pop. Gwyneth and Charli dive deep into the chaos and contradiction of making art on your own terms, the pressures of public perception, the transformative power of female rage, and how to balance wellness with the inspiration found in club culture. Alongside candid insight into her life, music, and marriage, Charli shares her thoughts on the societal expectations of women and how embracing messiness can lead to true self-expression.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Creative Process: Instinct, Contradiction, and Authenticity

• Songwriting: Charli describes her creative process as “selfish,” emphasizing intuition over analysis or audience expectation.
  • “I find songwriting is quite like a magical experience… Sometimes it ends up being good, and sometimes it ends up being, you know, awful.” —Charli XCX (03:33)
• Contradiction in Music: She’s drawn to contrasts—“high and low,” “soft and hard.” Songs can spring from deep emotional places or blunt party experiences.
  • “I like the contrast of, like, high and low. That’s something that’s always really appealed to me… The kind of Warholian, like, high and low art type thing.” —Charli XCX (05:06)

2. Messiness and the Female Experience

• Duality in Life and Art: Charli and Gwyneth discuss the cultural compartmentalization of femininity and the stigma surrounding conflicting desires (like motherhood vs. partying).
  • “The contemplation of having a baby and then, like, talking about blowing lines in a club. Like, that’s perfection. There are no rules.” —Gwyneth Paltrow (07:23)
• Gender and Public Image: Both deliberate on being “put in a box” by the public and press, pushing back against simplistic or comfortable interpretations of womanhood.
  • "It’s just interesting to me, like, the facets of people's personalities that people pick up and run with and then make like, this is who you are." —Charli XCX (09:44)
  • “Your music is not digestible… There’s a real pulse of freedom within it.” —Gwyneth Paltrow (10:08)

3. Influences and Collaboration

• Musical Influences: Charli cites Lou Reed and The Streets (Mike Skinner) as big inspirations, especially in conversational lyricism.
  • “You’re the first fucking person [to bring up The Streets]. To me, it’s so obvious. It’s such a reference.” —Charli XCX (13:40)
• On Not Listening to Music While Writing:
  • “I don’t really listen to music when I’m making… I listen to Lou Reed, Arthur Russell, Vernon Spring—totally not related to what I’m doing.” —Charli XCX (15:29)
• Creativity in Partnership: Charli talks about collaborating with her husband, George (of The 1975), and finding a shorthand that’s both professional and intimate.
  • “I’ve never been in a relationship with anyone that I’ve made music with… Now that we’re in it, well, I’ll be like, again, booze, let’s go…” —Charli XCX (17:54)

4. The ‘Brat’ Phenomenon & Culture

• Meaning and Marketing: Charli reflects on how “Brat” took over culture, even being appropriated by brands and politicians.
  • “I find all of the combinations of [art and capitalism] really interesting… But when it’s your own work… it does feel quite scary.” —Charli XCX (32:09)
• Essence of “Brat”:
  • “It’s sort of like volatility, you know, and mess and insecurity and confidence… When people are brats, it’s coming from sometimes a place of defense and insecurity.” —Charli XCX (33:28)

5. Public Perception, Social Media, and Letting Go

• Processing Criticism: Charli describes her evolution from consuming all press to stepping back for her own mental health.
  • "I don’t anymore, to be honest… I can’t. I can’t do it.” —Charli XCX (34:17)
• On Fact-Checking and Cultural Noise:
  • “I think we just… live in a world where if there’s enough noise around a certain sentiment or story, it doesn’t really matter whether it’s true or not. The loudest noise becomes fact.” —Charli XCX (38:52)
  • “The real spiritual ascension is to try to really let go of misperceptions… I’m not responsible for this misperception.” —Gwyneth Paltrow (40:50)
  • “It’s really just the people in your life that matter… the people that you spend your Sundays with.” —Charli XCX (41:29)

6. Expanding Beyond Music: Acting, Producing, and Telling Stories

• Charli’s Entry into Acting: Fear and excitement over learning a new craft and building stories from the ground up.
  • “When I first… went on a set, I was terrified. And it was so cool.” —Charli XCX (26:23)
• Current Projects:
  • Producing/composing for TV show “Overcompensating” (Prime)
  • The forthcoming A24 movie “The Moment,” a “revisionist history of Brat”—a music industry satire with emotional depth.

7. Female Rage and Honesty in Pop

• On the “Female Rage Wave”: Charli and Gwyneth discuss how contemporary pop’s honest, raw energy is changing narratives for women.
  • “The language of songwriting and the language of women is so much more open… and I think that is really cool.” —Charli XCX (45:03)
• Rage as Self-Declaration:
  • “Rage declares you as you.” —Gwyneth Paltrow (46:43)
  • “Maybe rage is the truest expression of self.” —Charli XCX (48:45)

8. Wellness, Balance, and Partying

• On Wellness Culture:
  • “If I want to live the longest, I just have to be happy and I have to be free and I have to not feel the pressure of living my life in a certain way.” —Charli XCX (51:59)
• Finding Inspiration in Chaos:
  • “When I go out and I meet people and I’m in it with someone… It’s a huge source of inspiration for my writing. If I cut that off, it would be like cutting off a limb.” —Charli XCX (52:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life.” —Gwyneth Paltrow (01:31)
• “I think the whole point of the record as a whole is: life is messy…especially as women, in the public eye, there is this pressure to present in this certain way.” —Charli XCX (07:52)
• "There is a power and a kind of healing in letting go of misperceptions." —Charli XCX (41:29)
• “It’s really just the people you spend your Sundays with that matter.” —Charli XCX (41:48)
• “If I want to live the longest, I just have to be happy and I have to be free...” —Charli XCX (51:59)

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Memorable Sections & Timestamps

• Charli on the songwriting process and intuition: (03:33–04:59)
• Contrasts in femininity, motherhood, and partying: (06:12–08:40)
• Pushing against “digestible” music and public compartmentalization: (09:41–10:53)
• Influences: Lou Reed & The Streets: (12:16–15:17)
• Working and living with husband George: (16:18–19:28)
• Brat’s messy themes and cultural takeover: (19:28–33:28)
• Navigating public perception and social media: (34:05–41:29)
• Female rage as declaration of self: (44:41–48:45)
• Wellness, happiness, and partying: (50:03–53:14)

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Tone & Language

The episode is conversational, candid, and insightful. Charli brings humor and honesty; Gwyneth balances admiration, reflection, and probing curiosity. Both embrace complexity and contradiction throughout, maintaining an open, engaging dialogue.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode is an intimate, wide-ranging look into the mind of Charli XCX: her fearless approach to songwriting, the balance of chaos and creativity, and her pursuit of authentic living—both in her work and in offstage life. It’s essential listening for anyone interested in contemporary music, the evolving role of women in pop culture, or the challenges of staying true to yourself amidst the noise.

Skip to:

• 03:33 for songwriting origins
• 07:52 for embracing messiness
• 13:40 for talk about The Streets’ influence
• 31:41 for handling "Brat" going mainstream
• 45:03 for female rage in pop
• 51:48 for honesty about wellness and partying

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Closing Note:
Gwyneth and Charli conclude with warmth and mutual admiration, reflecting on the freedoms they've carved for themselves and the power of creative, messy lives. The episode celebrates the courage to defy expectations and the joy of authenticity in all its forms.

Transcript

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

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[Gwyneth Paltrow]

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[Charli XCX]

When you are pioneering anything or introducing.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

New ideas to the culture, you get criticized. You do. Yeah, did you hear about that?

[Charli XCX]

I didn't find the one.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I found someone I respected and we.

[Charli XCX]

Made it the one. In the sort of longing kind of.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

View of love, people understand each other as if by magic.

[Charli XCX]

Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand. On the other hand, everything could be.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Addictive if there's an emptiness in that.

[Charli XCX]

Person that needs to be filled.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the GOOP Podcast, bringing together thought leaders, culture changers, creatives, founders and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers and seekers. Here to start conversations. Because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world. Here we go. Welcome to the GOOP Podcast. I'm Gwyneth Paltrow, and today I'm joined by one of the most original voices in music, an artist who creates worlds, not just records, and refuses to fit neatly into any box. We talk about creativity, collaboration and the freedom that comes with owning your vision. Fearless, inventive and deeply original. Charli xCX well, welcome to the Goop podcast.

[Charli XCX]

Thanks for having me.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I am so thrilled to have you.

[Charli XCX]

Oh, thank you.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You know I realized in researching this podcast, like, I have such a strong draw to women like you who are doing things kind of on your own terms so much. And of course, I guess I'd love to start asking you with some questions about the music because if that's okay, because your music is so unique and filled with so many contradictions and sort of iconoclastic in this really brave way. Thank you. And so, you know, I was wondering, when you set out to make music, are you, do you have, do you hold a particular idea of this kind of feminine form that you want to embody and represent, or is it sort of starting more with the songs? Like, if we go all the way.

[Charli XCX]

Back, you know, it's interesting. I think my, my, my process as a writer has changed, you know, as I've grown, and I think my writing process is quite selfish. I'm never really thinking about the sort of physical outcome of it or the way that people will respond to it. It's very much like, in the moment, I'm kind of just like pulling from whatever comes to me. I don't know. It's kind of like I find songwriting is quite like a magical experience because it's sort of like, how do you even get an idea? It just comes. It comes, and then you channel it and you kind of go with it. And sometimes it ends up being good, and sometimes it ends up being, you know, awful. But yeah, I, I, I think it's all just instinct when I write and.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Then, but it comes in the form of like, are you at a keyboard? Are you hearing.

[Charli XCX]

Oh, I, it's like I hear melodies in my, in your mind. Yeah. And then for me, especially recently, it's really begun with lyrics. Like, it begins with, like, a quite intimate story that I would like to tell. Like, whether that's like the feeling I had at a party one time, and then I kind of like explore that feeling. And you know, why maybe I have that feeling? Oh, it's because of, you know, the way I grew up or, you know, my insecurities. And I kind of go deep into that world. So it's lyrically kind of lyric, lyrical jump off point for me.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So, like, the nostalgia of the situation is sort of bringing forward feeling sometimes.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, sometimes it's, I mean, it's quite therapeutic. I think sometimes, you know, you really dig into a moment and, you know, realize it's because of all of these things that have happened in, in your past. Other times, you know, a song or a lyrical kind of starting point for me will be very Blunt. Very. Like, this happened at a party. And then I just write about it. And it's not like that deep, do you know what I mean? But it's like, I like the contrast of, like, high and low. That's something that's always really appealed to me in all of my work and the work that I admire from others. The kind of Warholian, like, high and low art type thing.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. Because I would say there's a very. There's a volatile aspect to your songs in that they are, you know, like, a lot of them are soft or the sentiments behind them are very female. And then the production is quite hard.

[Charli XCX]

Which I love 365 Party Girl. I love it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's so great. And also what's so interesting is, you know, the song that leads right into 365.

[Charli XCX]

I think about it all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yes.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Which to me is this incredible encapsulation of womanhood or who, I imagine, who you are as a woman.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. You know, that song is quite interesting. It's like, I played that to a few close friends before, and some of them, like, really, really responded to it in really intense way because I think. Yeah, it's like there is, I think, still a bit of a stigma, perhaps, around women who, like, don't really want to have children.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right.

[Charli XCX]

You know, And I think for me, it's like, I'm always swinging between the two. Right now I'm on the side of, like. Actually, I'm not sure that that is for me, but that could go back.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You know, and the interesting thing, just.

[Charli XCX]

No, please.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Not that I'm giving you advice, but just being a mother.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I think we have this idea that we do have to swing back and forth between. Like, I am, you know, as a career person. I'm here to do this, and this is my purpose. And I don't know if that aligns with children, but you can do both things. And that's why I sort of loved those two songs back to back, because I was like, this is so punk rock. The contemplation of having a baby and then, like, talking about blowing lines in a club. Like, that's perfection. That's like a whole picture of, you know, what, you know, and there are no rules around what kind of woman, what you have to give up.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, totally. And I think, you know, the whole. The whole kind of, like, point of the record as a whole is, like, life is messy, you know, And I think, especially as women, like, in the public eye, there is this Pressure to present in this certain way. And obviously, like, we do present in a way, certain, certain way. Sometimes it's kind of just like what happens. It's easier for people to write a, like, you know, Gwyneth is that, like, box in Put it out there. You know, but for me, and I think for all of us, it's like, as you said, life is volatile. There's this highs and these lows and all of these crazy things in between and all of these conflicting thoughts that have kind of constantly coming up. And yeah, I think the, The. The placement of those two songs, as you said, on the record, is like, very much speaking to that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, I fuck with it all the time. Like, I know how people want me. I know the box they want me in. I know what they're comfortable with. And to me, it's like one of the most sexist, of course, right. To be reduced to, like, a comfortable, a slogan version of femininity. So I really like to mess with it. I think you like to mess with it.

[Charli XCX]

I do, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Of course. It's part of the fun, I think, of. Of, you know, what we do. And I think there's kind of like a metterness to that that I really enjoy kind of like playing with what people think I should be and what, you know, it's. It's interesting to me the kind of pieces of, like, a public figure's personality that people, like, pick up and run with and then that becomes, oh, like, this is who you are. I just find it interesting. I don't even think it's necessarily a bad thing. I just. I find it quite fascinating that that's, like, the world that we live in.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That the inclination is to put you in, like, an easy.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, yeah. And just. It's just interesting to me, like, the facets of, like, people's personalities that people pick up and run with and then make like, this is who you are. I just find it interesting. It's. Yeah. I don't even know if it's like, if I see it as a negative thing. I'm just like, oh, it's interesting that that is the world that we live in now. This, this need for something to be very, very quickly digestible. Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And I think you sort of. I mean, to me, anyway, obviously I don't know you, but it. You sort of buck your nose at that. Like, your, Your music is not digestible. You know, it's so great.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, thanks.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

But it's not like, oh, this is easy listening and I think the more. The more you break it down, the more you sort of go, like, line by line, the more that you. I think it sort of. It gets into your soul, and there's like, a real pulse of freedom within it, which is why I think so many young people respond so passionately to you, because there's this incredible authenticism around all these different parts.

[Charli XCX]

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I think when I was making it, I was really just trying to. I wasn't thinking about the response at all. I actually. I made this record being like, okay, I'm just gonna do this one for me, and maybe I'm gonna get dropped by my label, and that's fine. You know, that was kind of the headspace that I was in.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That happened to Billy Joel on his third. Yeah, he was gonna get dropped. He had done, like, kind of these other two albums, and then he was like, okay, I'm just gonna do this for me. And then I think it was like, the Stranger or something.

[Charli XCX]

Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, it's like. It's funny how that happens, I guess. But I also think it's like, there's a lot of, you know, luck with timing and, like, the way that culture is moving. I think when I released this record, it's like people were wanting something that felt, like, very real and messy. And I think that's just, like, the way that culture was swinging, you know? It's like sometimes I feel like the pendulum swings in this way where, you know, people don't really want that. And I'm really interesting to interested to see, like, what comes next in sort of pop culture, especially in the music space, like, what people are craving.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. Do you ever think about, you know, doing something super stripped back and with not all the production?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm a really. I'm a really big Lou Reed fan. That's kind of my. My guy. And, yeah, I've definitely thought about that. I really like to work in contra, so I think, you know, whatever I do next will just inherently be different to Brat, because that's what feels natural. I'm exploring a lot of stuff with strings at the moment, which I'm really enjoying, and I haven't really worked in that space before.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That's so cool. So I guess where I want to go next is sort of picking up what you were saying around your influences. And you love Lou Reed. Yeah, I love Lou Reed, too. He's amazing. But there's a very, like. I was wondering if, you know, how much this sort of you know, I was an expat living in London for a long time. So, like, when it was like, Chase and Status and those kind of, like, you know, like, commercially, I did not.

[Charli XCX]

Think that Chase and Stasis was going to come up in this conversation. Love that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And, like, when I was listening to. I think about it all the time. There's like a very. The Streets quality to the lyrics. Like, to the.

[Charli XCX]

Yes. Is that you're the first person who has brought that up.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Am I really?

[Charli XCX]

You're the first fucking person.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Are you kidding me? I'm so surprised.

[Charli XCX]

I know, because to me, it's so obvious. It's like such a reference. I mean, I really, really love Mike Skinner. I think he. There. I actually kind of think there's, like, a sort of. Kind of similarity between him and Lou Reed. Yeah. Their lyricism. But, yeah, it's funny. It's like, when that song came out, everybody was like, what? Like, why? It sounds so unfinished. Like, what? None of this makes sense. Like, why is she talking? Like, you know, and. Yeah, I mean, I think that was kind of us, in a way, paying homage to the Streets, who are just. Yeah. I mean, he just gets. And I think he is such a profound storyteller, and he can really, like, go into the corners of, you know, stories that maybe have been, like, quite frequently told. But he has this really specific angle on the way that he talks about a breakup or a night out at a club or whatever, whatever it may be. He can really kind of get into the scene in a really kind of specific way that I've always really admired that. So that was. Yeah, we were kind of, like, trying to go there for that song. Yeah. You really are the first person who's mentioned that to me.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, I mean, to me, it was like. I was like, this is. This seems like a clear sort of reference. And I think what I love about that talking in the strange cadence is it becomes so intimate, you know, you really pull.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. It's conversational. And that was kind of a big, like, stylistic choice for the whole record.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And what else do you listen to, like, specifically for this record, like, Fat Boy Slim or.

[Charli XCX]

You know, I don't really listen to music when I'm making.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You don't. Okay. That's pretty common.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. I just. I don't know. It's like, I find it distracting. And I listen to the music of, like, my collaborators, like, the producers that I'm working with. I'll listen to their kind of, you know, they're like dance records, like, club Records and things like that. But I don't. Yeah, I don't really listen to stuff, and if I do, I'm listening to Lou Reed. I'm listening to, like, Arthur Russell. I'm listening to Vernon Spring. Like, very. Like, totally not related to what I'm doing, you know?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, my ex was like that, too, whenever he recorded, and he would have. Really. It would be hard even to have music on in the kitchen.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, totally. Cause it's like you kind of get pulled into a different space. I totally. I get it. I totally get that.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Interesting. Interesting. So you talk about your husband a lot on the record. George this and George that and Dance with George, which I love. Very sweet. And you just got married, is that right?

[Charli XCX]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Congratulations.

[Charli XCX]

Thank you. Yeah, it was really fun.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

We.

[Charli XCX]

We were in Sicily with, like, a bunch of friends, and it was. It was like. It was just a party. It was. It was a good time.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That's so great.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I know about George because we are. We have become big 1975 people in our house. My son is like, yes. Constantly wearing 1975 merch. And he was telling me about George and what an incredible producer he is, as well as being a drummer. So how did you meet and how did you start collaborating?

[Charli XCX]

We knew each other, like, vaguely through Mattie, who's, you know, the singer. So we knew each other kind of a little bit through him. And then we went on, like, an Australian festival tour. And I was playing, they were playing, a few other friends were playing. And that's when, like, George and I began to kind of, like, be like, oh, like, there's a spa.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Oh, fun, fun, fun.

[Charli XCX]

And then from there, we were working on, like, one song, and it just sort of, like, blossomed, you know, it was very, very, like, sweet, very innocent. And. Yeah. I don't know. And it's. It's cool, like, working with him, you know? I've never. I've never been in a relationship with anyone that I've made music with.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Wow.

[Charli XCX]

And so at first, I think we were both very nervous to collaborate together because I feel like, you know, you become a slightly different person when. When you're in the studio or when you're at work. It's like you have your. I do it this way. I like your language and how you. You talk to collaborators. And especially with me, my collaborators, I've worked with them for so long. It's such a shorthand that we have, and it's very, like, snappy and quick. And so with George, when we first started working together, it was. We were both being so, like, polite.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Like, I want him to still like me.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But now. Now that we're in it, well, I'll be like, again, booze, let's go. Like, da, da, da.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You know?

[Charli XCX]

And he's like, so. It's very sweet. It's very sweet. But, yeah, he. He's the best. And he really is. He really is an awesome producer, actually. And I think he just. He just worked on this Doja Cat track called Gorgeous with her and, like, a few other producers. And it's, like. It's really cool. Like, he has. He has great ears. Like, really, really good. So cool taste. Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And is he.

[Charli XCX]

Is he.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Was he sort of a critical part of defining the sound on Brat?

[Charli XCX]

I wouldn't say, like, defining the sound.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Is that you?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, that's me. And definitely, like, AG Cook, who is a collaborator across, like, the whole record. But I would say the two of us kind of, like, spearhead it. But George is really good, you know, he's just like, someone who I will always bounce ideas off, and I'm very lucky to have that, you know? So, yeah, he always. I really value his opinion.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. And, you know, you talk about, like, the messiness of the record. I've heard you say, like, it's a messy record. What do you mean by that? Like, just sort of chords that don't resolve like they're supposed to, or lyrics.

[Charli XCX]

Or kind of all of it, you know? And I think that's the thing. It's like the lyrical content reflects the chaos of the production and of my personality. It all becomes this one sort of, like, revolving door of mess, basically, I think. Yeah, it's like. It's like I am. I'm kind of like a volatile person. I'm like all of those things. I'm all over the place. I'm, like, dropping stuff all the time, you know, it's like. And I think that is what I mean by mess. There's a chaos to the record.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, I think that's also. I don't know. I think that's, like, a constant tension in. Being a woman in society is like. There is this incredibly messy aspect to us. We're emotional, we're creative, we're collaborative. And, like, mess comes with that. But, yeah, we're supposed to be also.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. And I gotta say, like, I love that. Like, I feel that my inspiration comes from all of the different corners of my personality. And if I sort of were to dull them down, I think I would feel a little bit suffocated. Like I think I need to really feel everything, like times 100. Whether that's like a great feeling or a terrible feeling, I don't know. It all funnels back into my sort of creative core. I don't know if, if you feel that way, but for me it's like that's. It's so important.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

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[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-844botox to learn more. I think my work sort of has more constraints around it, which is why I'm always so interested in musicians and how it works and you know, when I used to do lots of acting, I had to wait for someone to give me a job, you know. So now I see my kids like pick up a guitar or an OP1 and they can just make stuff. And I think there's a great agency in that that I am jealous of in a way, you know. And I also think that music allows for much more eccentricity, much more like paradigm breaking rules around who you're allowed to be as a woman. Like I think as an actress, they still want you kind of, you know.

[Charli XCX]

Can I ask you about acting?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

So I just saw Marty Supreme. Oh, you did? I did.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

How did you get to see that?

[Charli XCX]

They did a little screening for me the other day and it is fucking fabulous. Have you seen it?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I have, yeah.

[Charli XCX]

It's like no note. I was, I was really. I went With a few friends. We were really, really blown away. You're really. You're really excellent in it. And you're funny. You are really, really funny.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Thank you.

[Charli XCX]

But I guess talking about, like, you know, restraint and stuff like that, did you. That you felt like restraint when you were working on that project? Because it feels like a very. I don't know, you're kind of, like. You're kind of, like, letting it out like you're doing it, you know, I think. How was the process of working on that film?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It was. It was great. And I did not feel restraint in that role. I felt like I could be brave. And I think that also, you know, that comes with being with a director who's very sure of themselves and what they're doing. And so I felt like I could kind of leave it all on the table. My character's so complicated, you know, she's got a lot going on, and I felt safe to do that. I think, just like, when you're doing an actual part, I think there's a lot of freedom. But I think in society and culture, if you're an actress, there's, you know, you're sort of not allowed to be all of the things that you're allowed to be. Right. Which is why also I'm so curious, like, so what is interesting to you about acting? You have all these projects coming out, like, eight things you're doing.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Exciting.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. I mean, I think it's like. And you. Maybe you felt this because obviously, you know, you're sort of a multifaceted person doing lots of different things. It's like, I've been making music since I was 14.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

And don't get me wrong, I love making music. But I think there was just a point where I was kind of like, okay, I really need to exercise my creativity in a different way. And I found the. As I was saying, I don't. I don't actually really listen to that much music ever. I never really have. But where I've always.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Interesting.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. I don't know. It's like, I just haven't. There are definitely things that I always come back to, but in. In general, I'm not somebody who's, like, always listening to stuff, but what I am doing is I'm always watching films. And that's kind of been the case for a really long time. And that's always been quite a source of inspiration to me because I think one of the things that I love the most about music is. And I feel like, you know, when you're watching a film, obviously you immediately fall into a world. And I kind of was just like, okay, if I'm so into watching films, what if I tried to be in one? You know, and it kind of came from there and. And you know what's fun is like, I am 33. Am I 33 or am I 34? I can't remember what I am.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

According to my research, you're 33.

[Charli XCX]

Okay, great. Okay, good. Thank you. I'm 33. And when I first sort of went on a set, I was terrified. And it was so cool.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

How old were you when you went on the set?

[Charli XCX]

I was probably like, 30.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So what was your first thing?

[Charli XCX]

First thing I did was this movie called Faces of Death, which has not come out.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay.

[Charli XCX]

And it was like a tiny, tiny role. A friend was just like. The director was like, became a friend and was like, just come and do it. It's like one day, you know, and I was.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Get your feet wet?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. And it was like. I was so fucking scared.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Scary.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. I was like. Because you don't know the language of, you know, anything. Like, the marks and, like, the eyeline. It's like this whole world I had never.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Whole technical part.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, yeah. And so it was kind of like a 24 hour, like, big learning curve thing. I had no idea if I was good or bad or whatever. I don't know. But all I know is that I really. I really enjoyed it. And so it kind of came from. From that one. That one moment. And then I kind of realized, okay, actually, I really enjoy, as well as, you know, being on set, I really enjoy writing and being a part of, like, building the whole thing. And so I think that that is kind of where I'm at right now. Like, you know, I really wanna. I really wanna tell stories and I really want to. Anything that I work on, I would really love to kind of grow it from the ground up with, you know, the team around it, the writers and the other producers and whoever. Like, I find that very inspiring.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And thanks to you, I just started watching Overcompensating, which is so good. So thank you for that.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So you're. So this is a TV show on Prime. Yeah. That you are producing. And how did that come about?

[Charli XCX]

So that show was created by Benito Skinner, who plays the lead in the show, and he was the writer of the show. And we actually met so coincidentally, randomly at a party.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Like, where was this party?

[Charli XCX]

It was at Cara Delevingne's house.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay, I know. What kind of party that is.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. Yeah. So we met there and he and his boyfriend sort of came over to me and were kind of like, hey, like, we are fans. We love your music. I've got this show that I'm doing. Would you ever consider doing the music for the show? And we just kind of hit it off and I was just like, yeah, just like, text me. That was kind of how it began. And then we now have, you know, a friendship that sort of spanned, like, five years. I love both of them dearly. And throughout that five years, Ben was. Yeah. Developing the show, writing the show, selling the show, doing the rewrites. You know, TV is like. I'm like, whoa. Like, that is hardcore. Yeah, you know, it's hardcore. And, yes. I was kind of like, making the music on the side, and it was. It's a really, really cool process. And I think that show is really special. And. Yeah, really, really honest. Really honest.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's great.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's funny and it is.

[Charli XCX]

It is. The whole cast is pretty brilliant.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So you also have this film coming out. Is it soon? The A24 one?

[Charli XCX]

The A24 movie is called the Moment. And that's going to come next year.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. It's going to be early next year. We're just wearing, like, the final, like, tweet, final finals, the edit, you know.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And it's cool because you're producing that as well.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, yeah. So that was sort of based on an idea that I started, and it's.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's about your tour.

[Charli XCX]

It's. Well, it's kind of. It's. I suppose it's sort of like a revisionist history of Bratz. We like to call it a 2024 period piece. It's kind of like about. I suppose it's sort of about, like, the death of cool. When something becomes. When something cool becomes commercial and then you sort of lose control over actually.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

What it is and how it's brought into the culture.

[Charli XCX]

Exactly, exactly. So I play myself and it's like. I wouldn't quite call it a mockumentary, but it's something in the world. World. And, yeah, it's. It's. I suppose it's sort of like a music industry satire in a way.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Did you have fun doing it?

[Charli XCX]

Oh, my God, it was so much fun.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Was it great? Is it like Spinal Tap?

[Charli XCX]

There's. It's not quite there. There's like, yes and no. I think there are. There's also some really sort of like, emotional and, like, sad moments within it, and I think it's really it's really just. Yeah, it's sort of about losing control over something that you've worked so hard to attain.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I want to ask you about that because, you know, I think it's so interesting when, like, you were saying that you. You did the album, you really did it for yourself, and then it becomes this, you know, hyper successful, super commercial thing, which, of course, I imagine has its upsides.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

But the brat thing just permeated the entire culture. Was that this summer or last summer?

[Charli XCX]

It was this past summer. It was. It was 2024.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay. So. Right. And it kind of like, for me, I was like, when Kamala Harris changed her Twitter thing to the brat thing, I was like, okay, wow, this is. And like, I wondered how. How do you. How do you sort of respond to that as an artist?

[Charli XCX]

Well, it's interesting because I really, really interested in marketing.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right.

[Charli XCX]

Like, it's. I'm really interested in product and how people communicate products. Like, I find it fascinating and also how, you know, like, sort of art combines with capitalism, like, because it just does, you know, And I find all of the combinations of those things really interesting. So it's funny because as a voyeur, I'm quite fascinated by that. But also when it is actually your own work that's really, really personal, it does feel quite scary to see sort of like, you know, like pret. A manger do their like, brat version of their. You know, it's like it's sandwich. Yeah. I don't even know. It was like they had a lot of like, pret. Brat style posters. And you know, it's not. It's no bad thing. It's just interesting. I'm like, oh, okay. Like, this has become this kind of like, easily adaptable, this. This thing that can kind of be applied to like multiple different brands.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And because what is it the nucleus of brat? What is the word that would describe what that sentiment meant?

[Charli XCX]

I mean, it's sort of like volatility, you know, and mess and insecurity and confidence. I think that's. That's the sort of got it trigger of it. You know, it's like, I think when people are brats, it's coming from sometimes a place of defense and insecurity. That's the performance of it. And maybe it appears confident, but that confidence is there to sort of hide something else. You know, sometimes. Sometimes it really, truly is just confidence. But I think that's sort of the essence of it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You know, speaking of the marketing thing you touched on, so I read that you read Everything about yourself, which is so brave and meta and like, I.

[Charli XCX]

Don'T anymore, to be honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to. And then I was actually. I kind of, like, tapped out of that. But, yeah, once upon a time it was brave. Now I'm like, ah, get it away.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Okay.

[Charli XCX]

I can't. I can't. I can't do it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. I can't. I haven't done it since I'm like 22 years old.

[Charli XCX]

Right. Okay.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I can't. It's just. Yeah. And now with all the social media stuff and, you know, it's just. Yeah, but what I found interesting about, I guess the quote is from a while ago, but it almost. And maybe I'm interpreting something here, but I love this idea that you were sort of able to chew on all aspects of your public perception and not be, like, impugned or hurt by it, but sort of use it to understand who you were and then make adaptations from that point.

[Charli XCX]

Well, it's like what I was saying earlier. It's like I find the whole thing so meta and interesting.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes.

[Charli XCX]

You know, and I think it's like, it's very interesting to see what people feel is real versus what people feel is a performance. It's really interesting how context can be removed and reapplied. I just find the whole thing fascinating. And I think, you know, social media obviously brings in this element of every single person having a voice and a lot of people having really loud voices, which sometimes is great and fun, sometimes it's really scary and horrible. But I find the sort of. The kind of like, riot of it all quite fascinating because I also always think, in, like, 25 years, will people care or remember? Like, probably not everybody will be sort of doing something else.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

What will remain then?

[Charli XCX]

I have no idea. I think good art will remain always. I do really. I do believe that. I think good art, no matter what scale it's on, there's always, I think, a certain level of documentation of good art. And, you know, people who have had influence, no matter how, like, big or small they are, I think generally speaking.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Or what the noise around them was.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, I think it. I think. I think. Yeah, I think good art remains.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I had that thought the other week. I went to see Oasis with my son and we went to Chicago and it was so fucking good.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And I thought back to all of the. You know, and this is like when they were at their biggest. It was obviously way pre Internet, pre social media, and the amount of noise that existed around sort of the cult of Personalities and the stories and whatnot. And yes, of course it, like, adds to the lore, but, man, like, it was so good that art, like, it just. It stays irrespective of, you know, who's in a row with who or what happened or who said what. And maybe it just got me thinking, like, maybe because we live in this world where this deluge of social media is so nonstop, but maybe you're right. Like, at the end of the day, the bullshit all sinks down and the art pops up and that's what remains.

[Charli XCX]

I think so. I mean, maybe that's an idealistic approach. I'm not sure, but I would like to think so. I do think, like, the law of stuff helps, though, you know, because I think that sort of also generates, like, a conversation around the work. You know, when you think about, like, the sort of the swagger of Oasis, like, the kind of way that they were communicating with the press, with each other, with other artists, I think that all does feed back into the music and, like, what they represent and also what their fans sort of feel that they also represent, like the mirror that it holds.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes.

[Charli XCX]

So I don't know. I think it helps. But, yeah, hopefully a good song is enough. But maybe that's. Maybe that's too. Maybe that's too sort of, like, sweet of me and I know. Need to get a grip. I'm not sure.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You said somewhere that fact checking is dead.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. Don't you think?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I do. Yeah, I do. How long ago did you say this and what was it in reference to?

[Charli XCX]

I said. I said that, I think quite recently in a Vanity Fair interview that I did. But I've believed that for a really long time, I think. Yeah. I think we just. We live in a world where if there's enough noise around a certain sentiment or story, it doesn't really matter whether it's true or not. It becomes the loudest noise becomes fact. You know what I mean?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I do. And, you know, I think it's quite scary, but when I.

[Charli XCX]

Of course, terrifying.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It is.

[Charli XCX]

It's like. But you have to kind of let it go. I think that's where I'm at.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Well, that's what I was sort of trying to understand. Right. Like, if fact checking is dead in, you know, social media, in the New York Times and wherever else. Right. What is our response to that?

[Charli XCX]

I mean, I don't know, because it's like, I'd never want to fight it because I never want to add to the noise.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right.

[Charli XCX]

Sometimes it makes me not want to do press yeah. Sometimes it makes me want to explain. Press more to people who don't necessarily know, you know, that you do an interview and a photo shoot, like, three months before it comes out or whatever.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

You know what I mean?

[Charli XCX]

But I. I don't know. I think I just have to. I mean, how do you feel about it? I kind of just have to, like, let it go, like, wash. Just. Just. It's like. I think it's sort of out of my control, and I think to try and control it would take so much energy and stress and actually make my life really unhappy.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. Because not only does that in and of itself take so much energy, but, like, the act of trying to correct somebody's misperception, it's like, okay, so if you do that, what do you win? You know? Exactly.

[Charli XCX]

Exactly.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

So lately I've been thinking that the real work, like, the real kind of spiritual ascension is to try to really let go of misperceptions and that there's a kind of power in that. Like, if you can really do that, and it's really hard, and I can't do it all the time, but when I'm able to say, like, I'm not responsible for this misperception, it's nothing to do with me, and I'm gonna let them have their misperception, even they can walk around thinking, you know, something horrible about me, but I sort of take my power back if I let that misperception just live.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think there is a power in that and a kind of healing in that. And I think. Yeah. George just always says to me, you know, it's really just the people in your life that matter.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

That's right.

[Charli XCX]

You know, the people that you spend your Sundays with do, you know, go for dinner with, and your best friends that you, like, grow, and your family that you grow with. It's like, that's people that matter.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I like the sound of this George. You know, every. All your. When you talk about him and music and whatever, he sounds like a great guy.

[Charli XCX]

He's very wise. He's very wise, and he's really. He's really. I'm so lucky because he's very. He really can calm me. You know, he. He really.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

He knows you very well.

[Charli XCX]

He knows himself. He's really balanced. He's in therapy. Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I love yours.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, I know. Team George.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

George's goals. How is being. Does it feel different being married?

[Charli XCX]

You know, it's like.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I thought it felt really different all of a sudden. Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

And did that Last.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes.

[Charli XCX]

Wow.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And it just still builds. It still builds in. Upon itself.

[Charli XCX]

I definitely feel like when we got married, there was this sort of like, it was almost like we just started dating again. You know, there was that kind of like, like, and like saying like, husband and wife. It was like really kind of like fun and like, still saying that I'm like, oh, my husband, you know, whatever. But I think there's also like, definitely a thing where we're like, oh, it's the same, you know, but we like that. Like, I. I think I've always had a very kind of. You know, it's like marriage has never been like this sort of beacon of like, it's never been like this goal that I wanted to get to. You know, My parents got married when I was 16, so it's like I didn't like, grow up with this sort of institution. Yeah. Yeah. So I've always been pretty chill about marriage and so is George. So that was very kind of handy. We sort of have the same approach to it where we were like, we want to do this because we love each other and we want to be together forever, but we're also not going to kind of put this weight on it that it has to be this, like, life changing. You know what I mean?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

That's kind of our vibe with it.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And what's interesting is, and I wonder if you'll notice this over time, but when I speak to people who are married happily and sort of injecting their marriage all the time with the right stuff, like, it starts to feel like the marriage is its own protective thing around the two people, which is really nice.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, I definitely am feeling that. I mean, whenever I just need to be kind of like, oh, like, I'll just like go home with George and we'll just like sit, you know, and it's very. It just feels not to be cheesy, but very safe. And, you know, it's not cheesy.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, it's really lovely.

[Charli XCX]

It's kind of beautiful.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I have a question from my son.

[Charli XCX]

Oh, yeah?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I want to know her thoughts on this new female rage wave of pop and her thoughts on how this stripped backed, ultra honest, raw rage is going to shift the industry and maybe go even further. Like, the impact on this broader messaging that is being communicated to young women and how that narrative is shifting. Wow.

[Charli XCX]

What a question. Okay. I mean, I think it's interesting because I think the language of, you know, the language of songwriting and the language of women is just. It's so much more Open. It's so much more free. And I think there's so much more of a conversation around, you know, just be whoever the fuck you want to be.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes.

[Charli XCX]

And I think that that is really cool. And I think artists can exist and exist on a really, like, quite huge scale and communicate their different experiences of being a woman, you know.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I agree. They're calling it rage, female rage in pop music, which is so interesting because, like, it's still coming in, you know, it's not like, for me, rage music when I was, you know, your age was like, hole, you know, or like, it was like female punk rock. So I love that it sort of evolved into coming through in a more subtle way. But I do think I was talking about this with my therapist the other day, how he said something so interesting to me about rage being how we declare ourselves as people. Like that the energy of rage and that love doesn't do that. Love connects us sort of to the oneness of us. But rage declares your individuality.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. Wow.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Rage declares you as you.

[Charli XCX]

That's a great statement.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I thought so too. And I was really thinking about that when I was spending a lot of time with your last album, you know. Cause obviously, like, when it came out, I work out to it and stuff like that, but I don't, you know, sometimes I don't. And you've never done a song exploder, which you should do.

[Charli XCX]

Which one is that?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's this podcast where this guy sits down with you and takes one of your songs. Oh.

[Charli XCX]

And then you, like, dissect it all so good.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I was really hoping that you had done one, but you hadn't. It was okay. But this. What I really connected to this time when I was doing my own song exploder version, was that through line of, like, self declaration and a lot of that rage, or how I perceive it, which gets me fired up, is like through the drum beats and through the. Through the discordancy and through the mess and like the combination of all this stuff. I just felt like this is such a deep. A declaration of self. So I wonder if that's what they're.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, I think that that responding to. Yeah, that could be it. I think you're right. I love that, that sentence that your therapist said. I think that's really true because when I am feeling rageful, angry, whatever it is, and maybe this is something I need to work on, I don't stop to think about it. You know, it just. Whatever is within me comes out. It's the most instinctual version of what I'm thinking and feeling and in ways maybe like a huge element of my essence, I suppose.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

Whereas as you said, with love or kindness or happiness, it's like you're kind of a bit more sort of present and thinking and not just acting from the subconscious kind of being like, you know, so. Yeah, I don't know, maybe. Maybe rage is the truest expression of self.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

He was. I mean, that's what I found so interesting about it is like this idea that of course we want to live in love a lot of the time where we're connected to this greater collective and spirit, but there's something depersonalizing about that in a way. Right. And that rage, actually, that if that does bring true declaration of self, then we should be leaning into rage. I mean, he says to me all the time, like, I want you to get so fucking angry about this, like connect to that rage in you. And he thinks there's also an incredible amount of wisdom in the rage.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, yeah. Well, it sort of goes back to what we were talking about earlier of I think, you know, there is still this sort of like expectation of the way women should be and you know, angry is not one of them, you know, and actually it's like it should be 1, 100.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I agree.

[Charli XCX]

Should, you should be able to, to feel on that, you know, level and no one give a fuck about it because it's just human. Yeah, you know, Absolutely. Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah. Okay, so because, you know, we do talk about wellness a bit here.

[Charli XCX]

Okay.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Goop.com. is that something that you kind of contemplate like your own well being, whether it's therapy, whether it's exercise?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah, yeah, I definitely fall on and off those things for sure. Therapy is kind of my one. I try and really keep constant and exercise. To be honest, the past like few months really has not been a part of my life, but before it was. But I find sometimes when I'm traveling all the time, I'm just like, oh my God, I. I can't do it. But I need to get back in. I need to get back in. But yeah, I'm, I'm.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

No, no pressure. No self flagellation.

[Charli XCX]

No, no. I know, but I, it makes me feel good in my brain actually.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

When I, when I'm doing it, like I love like running it, like really, it makes me feel like a little bit more balanced.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

You know, so I do need to get back into it, but I've just been kind of like on planes all.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

The time and how do you reconcile like sort of Idea of your well being with. Also, this is what I also love. The dichotomy is like being up until 4 and partying at a house party. Why am I never invited to these famous houses? You're always. I feel very open invite, you know, I mean, I go to bed at 9, but what time do they start?

[Charli XCX]

Probably after when you're in your like, damn it. Deep cycle. Sleep.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Deep REM sleep. Well, maybe one night I'll have to, you know.

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. Pop up.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I know if you do it in England, I can be jet lagged and still there.

[Charli XCX]

You know what I mean? Exactly. You know what I think with wellness, actually, it's like I feel like there's a lot of pressure around wellness to sort of subscribe to a certain type of lifestyle and do things in a certain way. And sometimes I can really feel the.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Pressure of that it's gone crazy, you know?

[Charli XCX]

Yeah. And I actually just think for me, it's like if I want to live the longest, I just have to be happy.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah.

[Charli XCX]

And I have to be free and I have to not feel the pressure of living my life in a certain way. And so right now for me, there is a lot of partying involved. Will it be like that forever? Probably not, but it could be. I don't know. But like right now it's like that's where I got a lot of my source of inspiration. When I go out and I meet people and I'm in it with someone and I'm, you know, I get lost in this like fantasy world and for me it's such a huge source of. Yeah. Inspiration for my writing that if I cut that off, it would be like cutting off a limb.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

No, of course.

[Charli XCX]

And I would be so sad, I would be so unhappy if I wasn't able to kind of absorb all of these different people and feelings and moments. So.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yeah, enjoy that.

[Charli XCX]

I got to live in it a bit more.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

And you gotta, you have to mine that for as long as it's. That's giving you life and inspiration. And I brought something which will help your wellness.

[Charli XCX]

Oh, amazing. I will say at the same time, you know, as partying. I do love a massage. So. Yeah.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

This is from my tree. Wow. It's an organic apple that I picked for you this morning.

[Charli XCX]

Can I eat it?

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Yes, you can.

[Charli XCX]

Oh my gosh.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Right off the tree.

[Charli XCX]

It's delicious.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Isn't it good? It's really good. So there you go.

[Charli XCX]

Thank you.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

There's your wellness thing for the day, you know.

[Charli XCX]

Thank you so much.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Thank you so much for being on the GOOP podcast. Thank you for having me. You are such an inspiration. I've totally fallen in love with you through my all of this, you know, really trying to understand who you are and how you approach things. And I really admire you a lot.

[Charli XCX]

Thank you so much. I do.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

It's amazing to see a young woman like you doing, you know, creating on your own terms in this way, and it's very inspiring.

[Charli XCX]

Thank you.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

My pleasure.

[Charli XCX]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Thanks for tuning in. This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow, rate and review all of our episodes, which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.