How to Process Emotions in the Face of Loss

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Goop Podcast – "How to Process Emotions in the Face of Loss"

Episode Information:

• Title: How to Process Emotions in the Face of Loss
• Host/Author: Goop, Inc. and Audacy
• Description: Goop CEO and founder Gwyneth Paltrow hosts the brightest thinkers and culture changers.
• Release Date: January 14, 2025

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1. Introduction

Gwyneth Paltrow opens the episode by setting the stage for a deep and meaningful conversation about processing emotions during times of loss. She emphasizes the podcast’s mission to bring together thought leaders and culture changers to explore transformative topics.

2. Abby Schiller's Personal Experience and Initial Advice

[02:21] Abby Schiller, a goal coach, author, and speaker, shares her personal upheaval due to devastating wildfires in Los Angeles. She recounts the immediate impact on her community, including the loss of over 5,300 homes and the evacuation of 153,000 people. Recognizing the inappropriateness of her initially scheduled topic on "creating the year you want," Abby pivots to address the urgent need to process emotions in the face of such profound loss.

Key Points:

• Naming Emotions: Abby lists a range of emotions—worry, despair, anger, sadness, etc.—to help listeners identify and articulate their feelings, enhancing emotional awareness and processing.

  "I could go on and on. And the reason that I'm naming that is because most people cannot name more than six or seven emotions." [06:15]

• Importance of Emotional Processing: She underscores that unprocessed emotions can lead to a dysregulated nervous system, resulting in anxiety, physical symptoms, and impaired relationships.

  "When we don't process our emotions, our nervous system is dysregulated, and we have trouble concentrating." [08:30]

• Practical Steps for Processing Emotions: Abby introduces actionable steps—being open to feeling, conducting a body scan, and connecting emotions to thoughts.

  "Feelings are simply vibrations that we feel in our bodies." [11:00]

3. Conversation with Claire Bidwell Smith

Abby invites Claire Bidwell Smith, a renowned therapist specializing in grief and loss, to delve deeper into understanding and managing grief.

a. Overview of Grief and Loss

[24:35] Claire shares her background, highlighting her extensive experience in grief therapy and her personal losses.

Key Insights:

• Survival Mode: Both Abby and Claire discuss being in survival mode, a state where processing emotions becomes challenging due to immediate threats and chaos.

  "We're not safe enough to cry." – Claire [27:12]

• Stages of Grief: Claire explains that initial shock and denial are natural protective responses, delaying the expression of emotions like fear and sadness until safety is perceived.

  "Acceptance in grief doesn’t mean we’re okay with what happened; it means we recognize the reality of it." [28:40]

b. Coping Strategies

[31:00] The conversation shifts to practical coping mechanisms for managing grief.

Strategies Discussed:

• Regulating the Nervous System: Techniques such as deep breathing, meditation, and grounding exercises are essential for calming the body's stress responses.

  "Being able to correctly recognize and manage one's feelings is the basis of emotional maturity." – Claire [32:00]

• Self-Compassion: Claire emphasizes the importance of being patient and understanding with oneself during grief.

  "Say to yourself, it’s okay that you're feeling like this right now." [32:36]

• Taking Imperfect Action: Encouraging small, actionable steps towards healing, even if they are not perfect.

  "If you're willing to take imperfect action and make mistakes, you're going to get to where you want to go much faster." [45:11]

c. Supporting Others in Grief

[34:14] The discussion moves to how individuals can support others experiencing loss.

Guidelines Provided:

• Presence Over Solutions: Simply being there for someone without trying to fix their pain is crucial.

  "The only wrong thing to say is to not show up at all." – Claire [35:31]

• Avoiding Toxic Positivity: Refraining from minimizing someone's grief with overly positive statements.

  "When you ask someone to feel better, you're robbing them of the experience they need to have." – Claire [37:56]

• Concrete Assistance: Offering specific forms of help rather than vague offers.

  "If you are local and want to help someone out, buy them some groceries, take out their trash." – Claire [35:32]

d. Collective Grief

[39:43] Abby and Claire explore the concept of collective grief, where entire communities share in the sorrow of loss.

Key Points:

• Shared Humanity: Collective grief fosters a sense of togetherness and mutual support.

  "We are all in this thing together." – Claire [41:30]

• Permission to Grieve: Emphasizing that everyone, regardless of their direct experience, has the right to feel grief.

  "You can grieve. We can all grieve." – Claire [40:42]

e. Helping Children Navigate Loss

[42:32] Special attention is given to guiding children through grief.

Recommendations:

• Clear Communication: Use direct language to explain what has happened to avoid confusion.

  "Using very clear, direct language helps children begin to process the loss." – Claire [42:52]

• Modeling Emotions: Parents should openly express their own emotions to help children feel safe doing the same.

  "Letting them see us exhibit emotions is normal and healthy." – Claire [43:55]

• Empathy and Support: Teaching children to hold space and be empathetic towards their peers experiencing loss.

  "How can you show up for one person today? Do one thing for someone." – Claire [45:34]

4. Conclusion

Abby wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of kindness—both towards oneself and others. She encourages listeners to reach out, offer support, and remember that no one should navigate loss alone.

Final Thoughts:

"Whether you're going through something like we are here in LA or your own loss, choose kindness." – Abby Schiller [46:05]

"We can't do this alone." – Claire Bidwell Smith [46:04]

Abby provides her contact information for listeners seeking further support, emphasizing the community aspect of coping with grief.

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Notable Quotes:

• Abby Schiller:

  "Feelings are simply vibrations that we feel in our bodies." [11:00]

  "When we don't process our emotions, our nervous system is dysregulated, and we have trouble concentrating." [08:30]

• Claire Bidwell Smith:

  "Acceptance in grief doesn’t mean we’re okay with what happened; it means we recognize the reality of it." [28:40]

  "We are not our thoughts. We are the thinker of our thoughts." [10:00]

  "The only wrong thing to say is to not show up at all." [35:31]

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Resources Mentioned:

• Claire Bidwell Smith's Work: clairebidwellsmith.com
• Abby Schiller's Contact: abbyshiller.com | Instagram: @abbyshiller

Closing: Gwyneth Paltrow concludes the episode by encouraging listeners to follow, rate, and review the podcast on their preferred platforms.

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This episode offers a compassionate and comprehensive exploration of processing emotions amidst loss, blending personal narratives with expert insights to provide practical strategies for healing and support. Whether affected directly or indirectly by loss, listeners will find valuable guidance on navigating their emotional landscapes.

Transcript

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[Abby Schiller]

Hey Google, turn it up.

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[Abby Schiller]

Turning up the volume.

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[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Travel has always been such a big part of my life, and in a way, it's really what inspired me to start goop. I love discovering new places, new experiences, and finding those really special stays that make a trip even more memorable. Hosting on Airbnb is a great way to make the most of your time away. It's a wonderful option if you have extra space, own a seasonal home, or tend to travel at the same time every year. Hosting is incredibly flexible. You set the dates, welcome guests on your terms, and create memorable stays that reflect the warmth and uniqueness you seek in your own travels. If you've ever thought about hosting, your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] hosting when you.

[Abby Schiller]

Are pioneering anything or introducing new ideas to the culture, you get criticized.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

You do.

[Abby Schiller]

Yeah, did you hear about that? I didn't find the one.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

I found someone I respected and we.

[Abby Schiller]

Made it the one. In the sort of longing kind of view of love, people understand each other as if by magic. Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand. On the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that person that needs to be filled. I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life.

[Acura Voiceover]

Gwyneth.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is the GOOP podcast, bringing together thought leaders, culture changers, creatives, founders and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers and seekers here to start conversations. Because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world. Here we go.

[Abby Schiller]

Hi, I'm Abby Schiller, goal coach, author and speaker. And though I might not have shared this before this week, I am born and raised and currently displaced from my home in Pacific Palisades. I should also add that my voice doesn't always sound this sexy, but the ash raining in Los Angeles right now has altered it. So enjoy. Originally, I had been asked to speak on this podcast scheduled for today about creating the year you want. And a few weeks ago, I had written that and edited the episode and it was so wonderful. My expertise is in helping people design the lives that they want and then I teach them the tools to actually achieve those goals. But then our world literally went up in flames and that episode obviously felt extremely tone deaf and inappropriate for what we were all going through. So given the catastrophic events in the past week in my community, the most devastating wildfires causing the loss of over 5,300 homes and 12,000 12,000 structures and the evacuation of 153,000 people. Oh, I don't think anyone is thinking about creating the year they want right now, though. We will at one point and then that episode will air when we're ready. But instead, for today, I have been given the opportunity to use this platform to help so I want to talk about processing emotions in the face of loss. This will be relevant whether or not you have been touched by recent events in Los Angeles. We all have feelings and we all are at some point touched by loss. No life is without it. So maybe you've experienced another kind of loss and if this isn't right for you right now, just tuck it away or send it to a friend or listen and learn and benefit in any other way. As a coach, I help people navigate change, and even as in this case, I am experiencing the extreme threat of loss and displacement too. In fact, a friend texted me this morning, happy Day six of survival. I have been coaching myself as hard as I have been holding space and listening and when requested, coaching my friends and neighbors and community and clients. And I know that one of the most crucial elements of navigating change is processing our thoughts and emotions that come up with it. So learning how to process the emotions in the face of loss can be life saving. What I know is that collectively we are all deep in feeling some of those feelings. And I'm going to name a bunch because I think it helps to name them. Might be worry, despair, devastated, anxious, helpless, overwhelmed, vulnerable, unsafe, angry, sad, annoyed, forgotten, despondent, lost, hopeless, uncertain, abandoned, embarrassed, ashamed, guilty, terrified, heartbroken, numb. I could go on and on. And the reason that I'm naming that is because most people cannot name more than six or seven emotions. And yet when we name them, we give word to it, we voice it, we understand it better, and we can experience it better. What I do know is that we are all feeling it and most people really need help processing it. I didn't actually know how to process my own feelings until about seven years ago when I was taught by my friend and who's A therapist, Jennifer Waldburger. So I want to give you these skills today. The skill of actually processing feelings is, in my opinion, way more important than whatever we learned in the seventh grade math class. And I really wish that they would teach this in schools. And also I wish that math teachers don't come at me. Being able to correctly recognize and manage one's feelings and respond in an appropriate way is the basis of emotional maturity. It is so appropriate for us to be feeling whatever we are feeling in the face of pain. Each of the feelings that I named or any emotion are simply vibrations that we feel in our bodies. I'll say that again. Feelings are simply vibrations that we feel in our bodies. I'm going to come back to that with more why is it even important for us to process our feelings around loss or around anything? Well, we can't function if we don't process our emotions. When we have dysregulated nervous systems or are stuck in fight, flight or freeze mode, we have trouble concentrating. We are constantly exhausted or burnt out or irritable or low functioning. When we don't function and our nervous system is dysregulated, we have constant anxiety that can affect our relationships. We also have physical symptoms like headaches or poor sleep or inflammation or gastro issues or bad backs, poor immunity. You know the drill. You know, you're probably feeling this. We've had a really rough few years, but what does it look like to actually process? I know that we, we throw these words around like give yourself space or have compassion or be kind to yourself. I don't think anybody actually knows what that means. I don't think people understand how to process. And so I want to go over that with you. So first you have to be open to feeling, and most people really aren't. Most people close off to feeling because it's scary and painful and we don't really value the benefit of feeling. Or we think, you know, people will make fun of us for being in our feelings. But think of it like this. Think of it like going to the gym. When you go to lift weights once, you're not going to get stronger from that one. In fact, you may even be a little bit sore, right? It might hurt you a little bit. But if you continually have a practice of going to lift weights, you will become stronger over time. You will gain strength. You will become able to lift heavier and heavier weights. And that's the same thing with emotional and mental strength. When we can process our feelings, when we can name them and move through Them we become stronger to the experience of pain. We can tolerate more. And that is a skill that we are going to need, my friends, that is so important right now. So once you're open to feeling, then I want you to do a body scan. And before I even talk you through this, I want you to just come up with one of the feelings that you're feeling most common right now. Just name it. What is the feeling that you are feeling most commonly right now? Maybe it's despair or overwhelm or helplessness. But just hold onto that word. And then I want you to scan your body. So tell me or tell yourself, since I can't hear you. Where do you feel that? How is it showing up in your body? Is it a tightness in your throat? Is it a punch feeling in your stomach? Is it a clenching? Just do a body scan and tell me what the physical vibration feels like of your feeling. So notice it. That's it. Just notice the feeling of it, right? Feeling is a verb we are actually feeling. Is it frenetic? Is it moving? Is there a temperature to it? How is it feeling? And then once you have described it and sat with it, and I often describe it as like, just pull up a stool and sit with this as if you were sitting with a friend in pain. Just sit with it. You don't have to look away, you don't have to turn away. You can be with it and observe it and notice the vibration of it. And then I want you to see if you can connect it to a thought that you're thinking, is it? How am I going to get through this? Is it? I want to do something but don't know what is it? I don't have time for any of this. What is the thought that is driving that vibration, that feeling? One of the obstacles to doing this work is that we really block our ability to notice, right? Our attentions aren't where they should be to live self aware lives. We give our attentions to our phones or the media or news or other people or work. We're all so busy. But this doesn't actually require any time. It just requires a willingness to take a few seconds to notice and feel. And in fact sometimes we think that if we do that, we're going to just unravel. But what I have found and what research has backed up is that when we don't take a few seconds to notice and feel, then we spend an entire lifetime avoiding that feeling with other habits and behaviors to numb that pain. When in fact we could just Take a few seconds or minutes to feel that pain. So it's almost like we're given the choice of process the feeling or spend a lifetime running from it and feeling secondary pain because of it. Right? When we don't go into the feeling, we try and feel better by netflixing or scrolling on Instagram or social media or watching YouTube or TikTok or drinking or overeating or overworking or over giving or over whatever we're doing to avoid the pain of the initial feeling that we actually could be feeling.

[Acura Voiceover]

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[Abby Schiller]

Hey Google, turn it up.

[Acura Voiceover]

Okay?

[Abby Schiller]

Turning up the volume.

[Acura Voiceover]

And crafted to be heard with an available bang. And Olufsen premium sound system. The all new Acura adx, crafted to match your energy. Acura precision crafted performance. Google is a trademark of Google llc.

[Abby Schiller]

So I want to share with you four things that have helped me and my clients process emotion in the face of loss. The first one is to manage our nervous system. Most immediately, we need to bring ourselves out of the fight. Flight freeze. So that could look like taking some deep breaths. Meditating. I have adhd. I had never thought I could be good at meditating because I thought meditating meant clearing your brain. And that is not what it means, at least not to me. Meditating to me is giving yourself 5, 10 minutes of stillness to watch your thoughts and train yourself to come back to your focus on the breath. And once I understood meditating as that, I also saw that as like a gym practice. But for my mind, we're always gonna have thoughts. We have 60 to 80,000 thoughts a day. They're just coming at us all day long. But meditating and I really like to use the Unplug app for meditation. And ironically, the woman who runs Unplug just lost her home. So if you'd like to support her, please go check out the Unplug meditation app. Meditating is a great exercise for becoming more in control of your thoughts and feelings. It teaches you how to notice your thoughts. Because we are not our thoughts. We are in fact the thinker of our thoughts. We can observe our thoughts and have thoughts about our thoughts. Isn't that crazy? So we need to manage our nervous system. And again, that can look like taking some deep breaths. There are plenty of somatic techniques that you can Google and look into. We need to make sure that we're prioritizing our sleep and that we can ground ourselves. So that looks like this. Put your feet on the ground and just imagine the weight of your body going into your feet. And what I like to do is imagine that there are roots going from the bottom of your feet into the ground, all the way into the center of the earth and wrapping around the center of the earth. And then I just want you to feel that magnetic pull of your body into the ground. When we come out of our bodies, when we kind of like abandon our bodies, we're, like, floating around. Our energy is just kind of floating around. We're grounding yourself. Puts you back together in so many ways. I could talk to you all day about managing the nervous system, but that is really the most important first step. The second step is to start to identify and recognize your thoughts and feelings. Notice your thoughts. Our thoughts create our entire perception of our lives. I remember at the beginning of the pandemic, people were panicking, as was I. It's understandable. There was what I call traumatic uncertainty. But my thought was that this is an opportunity for me to help people, to lead, to rise up, to hold space for people. And that thought actually created that result for me. So my brain started looking for people that I could help. It drove me to learn more about trauma and uncertainty and coping. I wasn't discounting the pain and anguish and difficulty that I was going through, my family was going through, that everyone in the world was going through, going through. And I was looking. I was motivated to control what I could, which was to serve others who were open to being served. So how do you start to notice your thoughts? You simply start by asking, what am I thinking right now? What am I thinking? And then you just notice. So ask, what am I thinking? And then listen. Here are some thoughts that are helping me right now as my family is displaced. And every single night, we've been looking for signs that my house is still standing, and currently it is thankfully still standing. But, oh, my goodness, I have over 50 friends so far who have lost everything. So here are the thoughts that are serving me right now. We will get through this. It's okay to grieve. I believe that everything is solvable, and I don't need to know all the answers right now. I am so grateful that we have technology that delivers information that I need, that we have incredible firefighters. I am so grateful for all of the friends who have reached out and offered help. I am so grateful that we are safe. I could go on forever and ever But I am so grateful is a really helpful thought for me. Pick whatever one here that works for you or choose your own. Of course, another one that helps me always is I am capable of advocating for myself or I trust myself to figure this out out or I can reach out for help when I need it. And in terms of feelings right now, I like to think of feelings as opportunities to get to know ourselves more again. They're just the vibrations sent from our thoughts or in response to our environment. When we are able to listen to and pay attention to and respond to our thoughts and feelings, we create a dialogue with ourselves. When we are able to sit with and breathe into and parent ourselves and be kind to ourselves, we create a trust with ourselves and we live ultimately a much more self aware life. So you know, as a goal coach, if you want to have any goal, maybe that could be one of them. The third piece that has been really helpful for me this week is to fiercely take care of yourself and others. I have always had a really hard time asking for help. I'm the firstborn daughter, I grew up taking care of many people and I had to ask this week to borrow somebody's office, I had to ask to use somebody's bathtub, I had to ask somebody to borrow some mugs. We didn't have any mugs in the Airbnb for our tea and tea right now has been enormously comforting and I did that and people showed up and it felt like such an incredible act of humanity. Please do not assume that people should know what you need and offer what you need. You need to learn how to ask and that is part of your self care right now. And if you're okay, if you're an okay place, you can learn how to offer. And be specific when you offer, don't say let me know. And we're going to get into this in a little bit. But make specific offers or just show up and do it. I'm sending you groceries, I'm dropping off a latte, I'm venmoing you money, whatever it is that your friend or family member needs. And then the last thing that has been helpful for me this week is to know when you are able to take action and to take it imperfectly. And by action, that could mean sending an email or making a phone call or asking for help or meeting a friend or filing an insurance claim or setting up a P.O. box. Any small step that moves you closer to the result that you ultimately want. Now if you're experiencing extreme trauma or loss, that Small action is going to look very different than setting up an insurance claim. You might need to take the action of taking a shower or eating a meal or lying down. You just need to decide the result that you want and then take the small steps to go towards that goal. But what action doesn't look like is worrying and overthinking. That's not going to get you the result that you want. The more action you take, the faster you can achieve the result that you want. And I do say imperfectly because so many people wait till things feel right or they think they will be right, or they will know what to do or when they're ready. But honestly, that really doesn't come. And so if you're willing to take imperfect action and make mistakes and learn, you're going to get to where you want to go much faster. We are all learning how to process and we are all processing differently. And that's okay. I'm processing too. I've been coaching clients this week and self coaching so hard while evacuated with my family, my two kids, my husband and my very anxious dog. Two days ago we moved into this Airbnb and I've never been so happy to see a washer and dryer or a couch or a kitchen for my cup of tea, even if I didn't have a cup at the time. But even as a professional I have felt it impossible to grasp the scope of what has happened here in la. And I gotta tell you, you might be listening to this months from now and there will be another thing that we have to find impossible to grasp and another and another. This is the new normal, I think. How do I process the heartbreak of my 50 friends? And I know that that number is going to go up. Who have lost their homes and their businesses. Our entire community has been annihilated. Our children's schools, our grocery stores, our gas stations, our banks, our coffee shops, our favorite restaurants, our farmers market, our parks. It goes on and on. So I don't know how to rebuild. I know that it's going to take one step at a time and we're going to have to manage our thoughts and our feelings. And what's so tough about this and when I was thinking about this podcast is that there's such a wide spectrum of experiences right now. You know, I have my friends who have lost everything. And then there's me who has been up every night till the crack of dawn, refreshing, refreshing. The app. Seeing where the fire is and watching my neighbors homes burn. And then there's people who are very safe all over. And there are people who are watching this and who are very worried. There's a huge spectrum to this. And so I'm hoping that we can find these steps helpful for us. But what I wanted to do, because I think that we're in a collective grief period, what I wanted to do was turn to a therapist specializing in grief and the author of multiple books about grief and loss, Claire Bidwell Smith, to lend her expertise on the topic. Let's talk with her now.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

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[Abby Schiller]

Hi Claire.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Hi.

[Abby Schiller]

Thank you so much for sitting with me and on such short notice. I know that you have a lot happening right now to how is your home?

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

My home is okay, thankfully, and my family's okay. We are still, I think all of us in the middle of this. So we have bags packed in the car still. We are ready to go if we need to. We're heartbroken for our community, our city. I know so many people who've lost their homes, lost everything.

[Abby Schiller]

We don't have words. We don't have the words to speak of this size loss.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah, it's immense. I think it's growing in magnitude, you know, by the minute. The more we understand it too, which I think is really overwhelming for a lot of us.

[Abby Schiller]

Claire, can you just tell us and tell the audience your background and why we're speaking today?

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Of course. I am a therapist specializing in grief and loss. I have been in private practice for almost two decades now. Written five Books about grief and loss. I see people one on one. I lead support groups, run retreats. I'm just, you know, always trying to create more space, language, acknowledgement around the grieving process. I entered into it from a really personal place, young in life, and worked in hospice for a while and then have been doing this work for a long time, based in Los Angeles.

[Abby Schiller]

Thank you. So let's talk about what we're going through right now. I feel like there's so many different experiences of this. Of course, personally, I have felt like I'm in survival mode for the past week. And so I really haven't crossed or I haven't allowed myself the energy to think about what's going on. I've just been in go mode. Have you? Is that.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah, I'm definitely still in survival mode, too. It's interesting to hear you say that you haven't cried. I came close to tears last night looking at a few things online, but I also have not. And I think it's because I'm in that survival mode. I've got four kids at home. I don't even know if school's gonna start tomorrow. We are really close to the evacuation zone. I Woke up at 4 this morning because it smelled like there was a fire in my. And it was just the smoke blowing from the Palisades. So I think, you know, often we can't even process or begin to process or feel all of the emotions until we know where we are, and we don't know where we are right now.

[Abby Schiller]

It also feels like crying is a luxury because we're so. I mean, I sat with friends the other night who also have evacuated. Their house was in direct line of fire 200ft away, and they were looking through their ring camera, and they saw the fire trucks pull into their driveway. And they were able to speak through the ring cameras to instruct the firefighters to turn the roof sprinklers on. And we all just sat there kind of frozen in this absolutely insane. I'll never forget this moment. But who can cry when you're in survival mode?

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

We're not safe enough to cry.

[Abby Schiller]

That's right. That's right. I do think that there's so much judgment for people who go through grief that don't cry.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

I think that comes from so much misunderstanding about grief. You know, I think not necessarily adhering to the five stages of grief, but there is a big process to grief. And I think in the beginning, often with profound loss, enormous loss like this, like losing a person, like going through some kind of trauma. We do enter into an initial phase of shock denial. And it's our way of. Of integrating the information. It's our way of protecting ourselves. And I think you'll see a lot of people not crying. You'll see a lot of people just go into that survival mode, go into that protective place, and that's really normal. Again, until we are able to process the enormity, the magnitude of the loss, and until we feel safe enough to feel vulnerable, emotions like fear and sadness, only then do we start crying.

[Abby Schiller]

And so take us through what to expect, how do we process this?

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

It's gonna take a lot of time. It really is. And I think we have to acknowledge that it's going to look like grief, and it is grief. I think it's gonna get harder before it gets better. I think we're going to enter into a deep, hard space where we're really aware of what's happened. We're gonna see more images. People are going to go back and visit the ruins of their homes. We're going to really know the death toll. We're going to just hear more and more details, and the more in, the more heavy it's gonna become. And with that heaviness is gonna come a lot of sadness, maybe some anxiety, maybe anger for some people, fear. We talk about acceptance in grief. That word gets thrown around a lot. And it doesn't mean that we're okay with what happened. That's not what acceptance is. It's never gonna be okay that someone's son died or that someone's house burned down. And when we go through really profound loss, it's not that it's ever okay that these things happen. But when we can come around to accepting the reality of it, that is when we can start to move forward and really process and heal. We have to accept the reality of it. And I think so many of us haven't even begun to do that yet.

[Abby Schiller]

You know, I actually woke up thinking this. My background is in public relations. And so I remember the news cycle. I always think about, like, people's attention spans. And even during 9 11, the news cycle was about three months after 911 that it was in the news regularly. And then the world moved on. But if you think about today, most catastrophes have a new cycle of about two weeks. And so I woke up this morning thinking the world is gonna move on. I mean, actually, today was the first day I even left the Airbnb that we've been under evacuation. And I was like, oh, my God, there's Parts of Los Angeles that are functioning, I hadn't even realized.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

So funny. I subscribed to the Sunday New York Times and it came this morning and I went out to the yard to pick it up and I brought it in and I put it on the coffee table. And my immediate reaction was disappointment that the entire front page wasn't about this. I was like, I was up at 4am with bags packed, dealing with smoke. And there's too many other stories on the front page of this that are not about the LA fires. And I couldn't believe it. I was just like, gosh, this is really already. People are moving on or thinking about a lot of things or just not realizing what it's like to be here in the midst of it.

[Abby Schiller]

And yet the things keep coming, right? I mean, it makes sense that people move on.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Of course, of course. And there are things happening all around the world. There's so much happening.

[Abby Schiller]

There's so much. So let's talk about really how, I mean, as things come at us faster and faster, let's talk about coping skills and processing skills that can help anybody listening, regardless of the loss that they're experiencing or the fear of loss even.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

I think we all just really, right now, in this moment in particular, need to be aware of our nervous system. You know, I think we really need to be working to constantly calm and regulate our nervous system. I mean, like I said, I woke up with that smell of smoke this morning and immediately my heart is racing, my breath gets shallow, I can't sleep anymore. And so I was laying trying to do my breathing exercises, trying to regulate. And I think we all need to be doing that at any moment. You know, maybe we're setting alarms on our phones to just do some breathing just to take a moment or just to check in. How am I feeling in this moment? How does my body feel? What's happening with my breathing? And so I think that's a big thing that needs to be happening for everybody.

[Abby Schiller]

Because what happens if we don't do that?

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

What happens if we don't do that is we remain in a really hyper vigilant mode that just spirals us into anxiety. It spirals our nerve nervous system out of whack. You know, I just see so much anxiety. I've been talking and writing about the connection between grief and anxiety for a long time. And, you know, I mean, it can look like panic attacks, it can look like trips to the ER because you think you're dying. So I think we have to be very careful in that Regard. But what I also see is we get into that space where we do a lot of catastrophic thinking. So once we are spiraling out of control on a physical level or an emotional level, we go into that catastrophic place and we have to have compassion for ourselves when that happens.

[Abby Schiller]

So stop right there, because I hear this phrase all the time and I think people don't know what that means. How do we have compassion for ourselves? What do we do to have compassion for ourself? How do we think?

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

We have to have patience with ourselves. We have to have understanding. For me, my parents both died of cancer when I was young. They both got cancer at the same time when I was a teenager. I went through years of treatments with them. They both died. I was caregiver for my dad. And for years afterwards, I would get into this very hypervigilant catastrophic space where I would begin to think about worst case scenarios. Everywhere I looked, someone's coming home late from work, they're dead. You know, this hyper vigilance is going to happen. And when I began to work on that, what I would do is I would first notice that I was doing it. That was like one of the hardest things to even realize that I was going to the catastrophic place. And then the second step was really important. I had to have compassion. And for me, what that looked like was just saying, claire, it's okay that you're feeling like this right now. It's okay that you're worrying about these things. It's okay that you're going to the worst case scenario. You know, here's what you've been through. Here's the trauma you carry and hold. And that would just suddenly soften me to even look at myself and talk to myself that way. And it enabled me to take a step back from the hypervigilance and then begin to pivot. But I couldn't go straight from moving from the catastrophic thoughts to more positive thoughts without that step of self compassion.

[Abby Schiller]

Yes.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Even just laying a hand on your chest.

[Abby Schiller]

Yes, I do that.

[Acura Voiceover]

Yeah.

[Abby Schiller]

Yes. I always, whenever I speak to myself or show love to myself, I always press my hands into my heart.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah.

[Abby Schiller]

It's like a little hug.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah. Tend to yourself like you would a child, a friend, you know, how would you talk to someone else and then do that for yourself?

[Abby Schiller]

You literally became your own parent in those moments.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah. I mean, I think one thing that would be really helpful for people to be thinking about too. There's so many people who are going through grief and loss right now who've been Directly impacted. And then there's a lot of people around the world who are listening and watching and who are supporting people who are grieving and who are supporting people who are going through this. And I know that those people are feeling helplessness. They don't know what to say. They don't know how to show up.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

Let's talk about that.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

And I think it's important to address that. I know that oftentimes when people are grieving, everyone's like, what do we say to them? I don't wanna say the wrong thing. And so sometimes they don't say anything at all. And that is the only wrong thing to. Is to not show up at all. So even if it's awkward, even if you say, I don't know what to say, but I'm here, I love you, I'm thinking about you. I don't think it helps to ask them what they need. No, we don't know what we need right now. It does help. I'm getting texts and calls from everyone I've ever met right now and I can't respond to them all. But it means a lot to me. It really means a lot. So keep reaching out. Keep telling people that you're thinking about them, that you love them. Just come up with things to do. If you are local and you wanna help someone out, buy them some groceries, go, you know, take out their trash, take their dog for a walk, take care of their kid. They don't know what they need right now.

[Abby Schiller]

Yes.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

And one thing I wanna say that's important too, is to really stay away from trying to be over positive with people. Suggesting that someone look on the bright side, or suggesting, you know, well, at least you have this. That's not helpful. It invalidates their grief process.

[Abby Schiller]

Yes. And it often comes from a good place.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Always.

[Abby Schiller]

We are just so bad at understanding. We don't. As a culture, it's so interesting as a culture, we really don't understand how to process or how to talk about or how to experience these moments. But we gotta get good at it.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah, we need to get better at being in it with people. You know, let it be not okay that this has happened. You know, just go into that space with that person instead of trying to fix it. You can't fix it.

[Abby Schiller]

But it starts with ourselves, Right? If we can hold our own pain and process our own pain. But we don't have those skills either.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah, no, it's true.

[Abby Schiller]

We have to learn those skills. Because what we're trying to do, when we see a friend or a family member in pain. I mean, I know as a parent, it's hard for me to see my kids struggling with this, and I want to take it away. I want to make it better for them. But the best way to do that is just to sit with them and to be there for them and not try and give them solutions or give advice or cheer them up or whatever.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Exactly.

[Abby Schiller]

Just to understand and to sit and to say, I know this is really hard. I'm here for you. We're in this together.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

I think that's such a great example. I have teenage kids, and every time one of my kids is talking about something at school or a boyfriend, I want to fix it so badly. I want to start offering suggestions of how to make her feel better or what to do. And that's not what they need. They just want to be listened to, and they want you to feel like. They want to feel like you're there in it with them. And that's what we can do for people who are going through this right now.

[Abby Schiller]

Let's talk a little bit more about the toxic positivity. I have an issue with that term because it feels so judgmental. And again, I think people really do. They're behaving in the best ways that they know.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

I don't love that term either. I think I said something about being overly positive, because I agree it comes from a really good place. I think we want people to feel better. We wanna offer a solution. But I think it's important just to remember not to. You know, I just. I think when you ask someone to feel better, you're really robbing them of the experience they need to have of just processing the sadness and the pain that they're in.

[Abby Schiller]

So what? Let's talk about the difference between that level of positivity, which is kind of like a denial of what you're going through or an invalidation of what people are going through versus a healthy positivity. So, for instance, earlier in this, when we were still in a hotel room and not sure we still had a house, I. I referred to this as, this is quite an adventure we are having. I always think of my life in terms of stories or chapters, and I just thought about, like, this is quite the chapter that we're going through. This is an adventure. Somebody who hears that might think, oh, well, that's Abby being overly positive.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Making light of it or being positive.

[Abby Schiller]

Yes. And I also think that humor is a savior in these moments I come from. My father was a comedy writer, and that was his coping mechanism. And so, thank God. Like, we could always just. I mean, even being at a funeral, when there's a little laugh about somebody's quirky personality that we're all gonna miss, like, it's just such a relief.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah, I agree. I think. You know, I think you really just. We really have to just honor all kinds of personalities, though. There. There will be some people for whom that is offensive in some way. And I think we're so sensitive and so delicate in a lot of ways when we're going through something this big. And it's okay if that's not right for someone, and it's great if it's right for somebody else, and just to, like, let that be what it is. You know, I always try to. When I sit with clients, I really listen to their language, and I'm always very aware of what language are they using when they talk about a loved one who's not here. Are they saying that the person died or is dead? Maybe they aren't using those words. Sometimes they want to use the words passed away or gone. And I don't want to force them to say dead or died. So I'll meet them where they are is my point. And so I think we have to meet each other where we are.

[Abby Schiller]

There's just a huge opportunity for the whole world to learn these skills.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Mm.

[Abby Schiller]

Let's talk about collective grief. Tell me what that is and how that feels and how that can be a benefit or a challenge.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah. I think collective grief is a beautiful thing. I think we've gone through it in so many ways and times. You know, we go through it when a public figure dies. We all went through it together in Covid and 911 and these big wars and disasters that happen. I think the. The only problem I ever see with collective grief is people actually judging themselves and thinking they shouldn't be grieving. You know, maybe someone in Iowa who is watching all of this on the news, and they're feeling grief, and then they say, oh, I shouldn't be grieving. You know, people have it much worse, or people are going through it there. No, you can grieve. You know, we can all grieve. I see it when a celebrity dies and someone says, I didn't know them. I shouldn't feel this much. And that's not true. We get to feel what we feel, and we get to have these, you know, just. Just. It's a way of honoring what's happening.

[Abby Schiller]

Indeed. And in coaching, we teach that our feelings come from our thoughts. And so each person has a different thought according to the circumstance or the person who died or the loss that we're experiencing. And so our feelings, the level of our grief. And grief is a collection of feelings, right?

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Oh yeah.

[Abby Schiller]

Maybe you want to outline that. But our feelings come from the thought that we're thinking about that circumstance.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah, absolutely. So I think collective grief can be. I think it's a way we can come together. We can all feel, you know, that we're in this together. Someone, one of you said today that, you know, just walking to restaurants and everyone's giving each other that look. You know, it's that look. I remember it from 911 when I was in New York. We're all in this thing together. We are collectively grieving. And there's something beautiful about that connection.

[Abby Schiller]

I agree. And to that point, I was also in New York during 9 11. And I remember the details of it. The, you know, sharing the taxi ride down. I live downtown, just a few blocks from 9 11. And there were so few taxis on the street in those days, days after, after 9 11. So when we could get one, we would share it. And so everybody would pile into a taxi and we would all go uptown together. And so often we would share it with first responders who had spent the entire night digging through the rubble or we all went downtown to support the restaurants and the ash falling on our plates from 9 11. I remember that and the smell and all of that. I actually think that in these moments, it's easier to be in it than to watch it from afar because we are seeing those beautiful moments of humanity and generosity and civility and connection. So many families have lost their homes and so many families experience loss. Can you give us any wisdom about how as parents, we can help our children navigate this loss?

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah, it's really important to be thinking about kids right now. I think using very clear, direct language with them, meeting them, like what where they are. Just if we get too vague with our wording, they can get very confused. So sometimes, you know, when I think about this with death, people will say, you know, grandma's gone to a better place now. And the kid is like, what?

[Abby Schiller]

Where?

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Where? You know, so using very clear, direct language about what's happened or what's occurred, that the house is gone, things like that. Just to help them begin to start processing and not have any confusion. We don't need to over explain anything. So meet them where they are. If they questions, answer them. Otherwise we don't need to bombard them with information. So Being clear not to overwhelm them. Also being really aware that kids grieve really differently than adults do, and they process emotions and events differently. You may see them playing and laughing and not thinking about it at all. That's okay. You know, they go back and forth between moments of feeling everything and feeling the emotions and then running off to play with their friends or think about something else, and we have to let that be okay. You know, I think it's also important for parents to remember that it's fine to let your kids see you feeling emotional. We're role modeling for them at all times. So letting them see us exhibit emotions is normal and healthy and helps them feel safe to do the same.

[Abby Schiller]

I grew up in a home where emotions weren't really available, and so I've had to learn this myself. And one of the things that I do with my kids is I always kind of announce ahead of time, like, I'm feeling really overwhelmed right now, or I'm on my last string and I might snap. So I'm just giving you a heads up. I'm really feeling quite fragile, and I feel like that dialogue gives them kind of an understanding. We have an understanding with each other, and hopefully I'm modeling how to talk for themselves of how to express that.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah, definitely.

[Abby Schiller]

One of the things that we have come up with is we want to bring in an expert to talk to my son. He's 14. His group of friends, to really help. 10 of his friends have lost their homes, about 50% of his main friend group. And so I'm thinking that these boys need to learn how to hold space and how to be empathetic and how to listen. And this is such an opportunity for them to learn that. And the kids who have lost their homes are gonna need to figure out how to process this.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Abby Schiller]

I guess if it's a silver lining, because we're all in this together, we can pool our resources.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

We can. We have to. We have to stay connected. We have to help each other. And I think when we do that, too, it really feels good. Us. I think we all feel helpless right now. We feel like we don't know what to do. And so I think just leaning into, how can you show up for one person today? How can you do one thing for someone, even if you yourself are going through the immense loss of all of this, it still feels good to reach out to other people.

[Abby Schiller]

Claire, do you have any last words for us?

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

I just want to reiterate that I think we all need to feel permission to grieve right now and to recognize that again, it will be a process. It's going to take time and we need tools. We need to reach out to each other. We need to just really acknowledge all of this grief. Lean into ritual, lean into spirituality, lean into each other, lean into anything. That's really going to help you navigate holding all this grief for yourself and for others.

[Abby Schiller]

Yeah, we can't do this alone. Nobody should be doing this alone.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

We can't do this alone.

[Abby Schiller]

This is such an enormous topic and we are just starting to scratch the surface. Living in the city that is still ablaze. And I am just so grateful that you were able to come here and share your wisdom. I know that you know a lot about this. Where can listeners find you and more resources?

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

You can find any of my books online. My website is clairebidwellsmith.com you can follow me on social media. Claire bidwellsmith I'm offering tons of resources. As fast as I can compile them, I am putting them out there so you can find them anywhere you find me.

[Abby Schiller]

Thank you so much for your work and for being here.

[Claire Bidwell Smith]

Thank you. Thank you for holding space for all of this.

[Abby Schiller]

I want to just end by saying this. Whether you're going through something like we are here in LA or you're going through your own loss, I want to just encourage everyone to choose kindness, kindness for yourself and for others. Everyone you see right now at the stores, at school, even the jerks online, we are all going through something and we are all just trying to figure this out. So I'm sending you love and kindness. I will be receiving that as as much as possible. I want to thank you for listening and if you want to continue the discussion, you can find [e-mail] or on Instagram. I'm here to help.

[Gwyneth Paltrow]

This has been a presentation of of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow, rate and review all of our episodes which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey or wherever you get your podcasts.