Podcast Summary: The Government Fix for A Government That Just Works
Podcast: The Government Fix
Host: Amanda Renteria, CEO of Code for America
Guest: Michael Tubbs, former Mayor of Stockton, CA
Date: February 24, 2026
Episode Overview
This inaugural episode explores what it takes to create a government that is efficient, empathetic, and accessible—a government that truly “just works.” Amanda Renteria sits down with Michael Tubbs, formerly the mayor of Stockton, CA, and a trailblazer in innovative governance. The conversation dives into tangible fixes for old systems, the role of technology (including AI), the power of youth in public service, and how disruptive ideas like universal basic income (UBI) can change lives and policy.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Legacy Systems and the Urgency of Modernization
- Tubbs humorously recalls inheriting ancient technology in Stockton’s city government:
“The only thing I was older than was our legacy system, but only by a year. We were using technology from 1990, in 2016 in Stockton.”
(00:00, 24:58 — Memorable recurring anecdote) - Critical government operations (like payroll) ran on severely outdated systems, highlighting the inefficiencies and roadblocks to innovation in local government.
2. Motivation to Serve: Combining Personal Tragedy and Civic Duty
- Tubbs was inspired to run for office after his cousin became the victim of homicide while he was interning at the White House.
“It was really that juxtaposition between being at the seat of power... and then feeling very powerless. It wasn't enough to protect my family.” (06:13)
- He emphasizes that leadership must be informed by proximity to real problems, not just by status or distance from communities in need.
3. The Power and Promise of Youth in Government
- Amanda and Michael discuss how younger generations bring tech fluency and a “beginner’s mindset.”
- They highlight the authenticity of younger voices, especially in digital communication:
“They don’t wait for good or bad, they don’t wait for talking points, they don’t wait for the polls. They’re really very comfortable pulling out their phone and saying, hey, this just happened. This is what I feel.” (11:57, Michael Tubbs)
- Tubbs advises newcomers to “embrace the chaos, embrace the uncertainty and embrace the journey.” (08:27)
4. Universal Basic Income: The Stockton Economic Empowerment Demonstration (SEED)
- Project Overview: 125 Stockton residents received $500/month, no strings attached.
- Funding: Initially challenging, reliant on philanthropy (Economic Security Project, individual donors) rather than government dollars.
“What’s fascinating is that it’s very serendipitous...we had to use philanthropy...If we prove this is a great idea, it should be publicly funded.” (13:05, 16:10)
Key Learnings from the Program:
- Increased Full-time Work: UBI enabled people to transition from part-time to full-time employment.
- Stress Reduction: Recipients reported better mental health and lower anxiety.
"Folks kept saying they felt like they can breathe... it had comparable results to clinical trials of Prozac in terms of impacts on depression and anxiety." (16:52)
- Income Volatility: UBI smoothed out unpredictable income shocks, highlighting a widespread issue in the U.S.
- Policy Based on Fables: Tubbs observes that much government resistance comes from “vibes” and fables, not data.
"So much of our policy isn’t based off rigorous data...it's based off narrative and fables. It’s based off vibes...[but] if you push and crack and question a little bit, it can move." (16:52)
5. Philanthropy as Government’s Risk Capital
- Philanthropy played a vital role in piloting SEED, but foundations largely preferred to fund research, not direct benefits.
“We have more money for evaluation than for their payments to people. This is...part of the issue.” (16:50)
- Both speakers praise the “muscle” of philanthropy in the United States for de-risking government innovation.
6. Fixing Delivery, Not Just Policy
- UBI’s transition from radical idea to near-mainstream shows how practice leads policy.
“Now the pendulum has swung so much where it’s not even a radical idea, where just like eight years ago it was a ridiculous notion to most people.” (16:52)
- The delivery of government benefits—accessibility, ease, and clarity—is just as important as the benefits themselves.
7. Government Designed to Say “Yes”: Reimagining Institutional Attitude
- Tubbs calls for a government “deeply committed not to being right, but to getting it right.” (22:46)
- He emphasizes that progress, not perfection, is what the public expects.
- Suggested reforms: Common applications for benefits, interagency data sharing, streamlined public services.
8. Unsexy Work, Big Impact: Modernizing Infrastructure
- Improving government tech and backend systems is foundational for successful innovation.
- Tubbs recommends that, if you’re going to undertake disruptive change, aim high:
“If you’re going to change it, just change it. ...We should just went for the ultimate because now we have to do the same thing again.” (24:58)
- Strong praise for civic tech organizations like Code for America, which tackle these foundational but overlooked problems.
9. AI and the Future of Civic Work
- Tubbs is now focused on developing “Civic AI” to support staff and institutional memory.
“...allow the AI to be the institutional memory...so they’re actually out in the community doing community work... that can have a huge impact.” (32:08)
- As longtime government staff retire, AI can fill critical knowledge gaps and free up human capacity for higher-value work.
Notable Quotes and Moments (with Timestamps)
-
On legacy tech in government:
“The only thing I was older than was our legacy system, but only by a year.”
—Michael Tubbs (00:00, 24:58) -
On youth and change:
“History is made on the margins... it always looks impossible until it’s done.”
—Michael Tubbs (08:27) -
On the lessons of UBI:
“We found the opposite: folks who received the guaranteed income were able to work more...”
—Michael Tubbs (16:52) -
On philanthropy’s role:
“If you’re acting like government, we’re stuck. If you’re scared to fund the stuff, we’re really in trouble.”
—Michael Tubbs (16:10) -
On “vibes-based” policy:
“So much of our government, so much of our policy isn’t based off rigorous data, isn’t based off rigorous analysis, isn’t based off best practice. It’s based off narrative and fables. It’s based off vibes...”
—Michael Tubbs (16:52) -
On what a “yes”-oriented government looks like:
“A government that says yes is deeply committed not to being right, but to getting it right.”
—Michael Tubbs (22:46) -
On automating government memory:
“With like a really, really fine-tuned training LLM that can help draft and write and save staff incredible amounts of time, so they’re actually out in community doing community work.”
—Michael Tubbs (32:08)
Important Segments & Timestamps
- [00:00, 24:58] – The legacy systems crisis in Stockton government.
- [06:13] – Personal tragedy driving Michael Tubbs to run for office.
- [08:27, 10:41] – The importance of youth, tech fluency, and beginner’s mindset.
- [13:05–16:52] – Funding, running, and learning from the Stockton UBI pilot.
- [16:50] – The mismatch between philanthropy’s funding and government needs.
- [22:46] – Reimagining government’s default to “no.”
- [24:58–28:37] – Challenges of upgrading civic technology systems.
- [32:08] – Plans for “Civic AI” to transform local government work.
Tone & Style
- Authentic, candid, constructive.
- Optimistic but pragmatic about government change.
- Focused on bridging idealism and practicality, innovation and fundamentals.
Conclusion
The episode illuminates the hard, often unglamorous work necessary to make government “just work.” It draws a compelling connection between technology, philanthropy, policy experimentation, and the transformative power of a new generation’s perspective. Tubbs’s journey from personal loss to civic innovation, coupled with Renteria’s focus on community-responsive tech, make this a must-listen (and must-read!) for anyone hoping for a smarter, more human public sector.