The Grand Tourist with Dan Rubinstein

Episode: 032c: Can a Magazine Start a Fashion Line?

Date: October 29, 2025
Guests: Joerg Koch and Maria Koch, Founders of 032c
Host: Dan Rubinstein

Episode Overview

This episode of The Grand Tourist explores the evolution of Berlin-based 032c from a cult print magazine into a significant fashion label. Host Dan Rubinstein interviews its founders, Joerg and Maria Koch, tracing their personal backgrounds, the cultural context of Berlin in the late 1990s and 2000s, their creative philosophies, and the “why” and “how” behind 032c’s expansion into the fashion world. The discussion is candid, at times irreverent, and reveals much about independent creativity, counterculture, and the continually blurring lines between media and fashion.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early Influences & Backgrounds

• Joerg’s Punk Roots

  • Grew up in a conservative family in Frankfurt. His formative years were spent immersed in punk rock and hardcore DIY culture, which shaped his approach to creativity and independence.
    • “The life changing moment was for me to be into punk rock, hardcore, straight edge, like this whole DIY culture. And that probably has shaped everything what I've been doing since then.” — Joerg (03:05)
  • Was also a member of a revolutionary socialist party as a teenager.

• Maria’s Path to Fashion

  • Raised by left-wing intellectuals in Göttingen, she sought her own rebellious path through hardcore rave culture.
  • Interest in “beauty” led her to art and ultimately fashion.
    • “I was always interested into what you can call beauty. No matter if I would find this in music or in being with animals or then later with art, and then it ended up in fashion. So this is, I feel, my driving force somehow.” — Maria (04:30)

Berlin's Transformative Creative Scene

• Why Berlin?

  • Joerg and Maria both moved to Berlin in the late 1990s, drawn in by its open spaces, optimism, and low cost of living—a place where, as Joerg puts it, “possibilities reigned supreme” (06:12).
  • The city provided a “protective environment” for experimentation where success and failure could happen without consequence (06:12–08:09).

• Joerg’s Initial Work

  • Worked in Germany’s first web magazine during the dot-com boom, balancing this with punk-DIY projects: fanzines, concerts, record labels (09:19, 10:15).

• Maria’s Apprenticeship under Jil Sander

  • Intense learning environment, driven by “ambition” and Jil Sander’s “fetish for precision.”
    • “She never excused her fetish on precision… To insist on that, it’s not perfect yet. And to don’t feel guilty for this… The result is then when you’re brave enough to do that much more in the area of excellence.” — Maria (12:07)

Origins of 032c

• From DIY Zine to International Magazine

  • 032c began as an experimental zine with a cryptic name (Pantone code for red) as a “newspaper thing, black, red, printed… distributed to places like Colette, etc.” (13:24–15:23).
  • The magazine was always in English, recognizing the international interest in Berlin (15:23).
  • Big shift from “just a fancy” to a proper magazine with in-depth photography and longform features (16:57–17:23).

• Purpose & Politics

  • Always conceived as political and empowering, aiming to encourage readers to think and create independently.
    • “032c was always like a political publication in terms of like empowering people to think for themselves, obviously. And also like to. To lead by example, like, if we can do it, if we can do something like this, other people can do it for sure as well with the right level of commitment.” — Joerg (17:47)

The Personal, the Professional, the Merge

• How Joerg & Maria Met

  • Romance began on Facebook after moving in similar circles for years in Berlin (18:34–19:01).
  • Maria initially skeptical about the “hype” around 032c, but later embraced its significance (19:51).

• Merge of Creative Forces

  • Friends encouraged them to combine talents after witnessing the growth of grassroots 032c merch culture online—fans making their own sweaters and accessories (22:46–24:10).
  • The transition from magazine merch to a real fashion line felt natural and evolutionary, not forced.

The Magazine-to-Fashion Evolution

• Not Just a Magazine

  • Joerg emphasizes openness to platforms and forms—print, digital, potentially even real estate development—driven by a digital mindset (24:12).
  • “The print magazine really worked perfectly within the budget constraint and for the impact it had. But that was never the end game for it. You know, it could have also… evolved into like real estate development with storytelling around it, you know.” — Joerg (24:12)

• Fashion Now Dominates the Business

  • The fashion business has grown to eclipse the magazine, in part because media is in decline and fashion has “greater scope” (26:32).

Defining Moments and Signature Editorials

• Iconic Editorials
  • Notable stories include collaborations with Juergen Teller, Raf Simons, Helmut Lang, and fold-outs with Steven Meisel and Rem Koolhaas (27:36–30:00).
  • Memorable controversy: A Teller and Kristen McMenamy shoot considered “hardcore pornography.”
    • “It was spectacular because it was like on the edge to porn… But just this idea of all these combinations and references in this one story and how nevertheless beautiful it looked and how smart it looked and very somehow intellectual. I really loved the story very much.” — Maria (27:55)

The Fashion Collections: Concepts & Critique

• Concept-Driven Collections

  • Fall/Winter: Suspicious Minds: Inspired by Alpine festivals and folklore, combining sexual traditionalism and anti-zeitgeist spirit (30:11–32:25).
  • Spring: I Would Prefer Not To: Reflects a refusal to play by industry rules—no forced shows, less logo-heavy merch, more quality and soul (32:42–35:02).

• Counterculture and Sensitivity

  • A critique of today’s culture for lacking gentleness and true counter-narratives.
    • “The idea of sensitivity, of the gentleness of stepping back to let another opinion or movement person cross by is totally missing… this could be a part as well of a counterculture, because it’s a totally different approach of what I see as an average today.” — Maria (36:52)
  • The war room: daily living-room discussions to “organize points of view” (36:30).

Fashion’s Systemic Challenges

• Disillusionment with Contemporary Fashion

  • “The system” seems broken: overproduction, lack of authenticity, and reliance on trends rather than substance (39:32–41:35).
  • Joerg laments the loss of brands one can ‘believe in.’
    • “Fashion has become so important that you need fashion to sell cars, to sell holidays, to sell architecture… but that the actual fashion has become quite meaningless. Like how many people are actually deeply caring about a fashion garment or a fashion brand, etc.” — Joerg (41:35)

• Brand as a System/Party Metaphor

  • Maria compares brands to political parties—once core values blur, loyalty erodes and consumers disengage (45:04–46:12).

Berlin Then and Now

• City Shaped the Brand
  • Berlin’s unique, post-wall economic scenario allowed for risk-taking and slow growth—impossible in today’s expensive, competitive Berlin or London/New York (47:15–49:10).
    • “Berlin enabled a certain melange of like stupidity and ambition and fostered that for quite a while. And that kind of made the publication so strong…” — Joerg (47:15)

The Business Now: Structure and Strategy

• Workshop Line vs. Ready-to-Wear
  • Workshop: experimental, merch, direct-to-consumer, playful (52:19–54:38).
  • Ready-to-wear: elevated, distributed via wholesale, focus on quality and craft.
    • “We want to radicalize the offerings… Now we’re splitting it up… The workshop line is more experimental, more fun, with T-shirts, art editions, vintage newspaper editions… Ready-to-wear will be even more elevated…” — Joerg (52:19)
  • Timelines: Ready-to-wear show in January, workshop line for the holiday season (54:57).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Taking Work Seriously
  • “Take yourself serious. When you say want to do it, then do it and really do it. And doing it means 20 years or 10 years, how long it ever takes... take yourself and your dreams serious. I think this is super important.” — Maria (57:07)
• On Legacy and Purpose
  • “032c is about really being yourself with the time you’re in… engage with the time you live in.” — Joerg (58:30)
  • “Legacy management is not our forte.” — Joerg (59:28)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Punk/DIY Roots, Youthful Influences: 03:05–04:08
• Maria’s Early Fashion Experiences: 08:09–12:07
• Creation and Philosophy behind 032c: 13:24–17:47
• Joerg and Maria’s Meeting and Relationship: 18:34–20:34
• Shift to Fashion and Merch Culture: 22:46–26:32
• Defining Moments/Editorials: 27:36–30:00
• Collection Concepts Explained: 30:11–35:28
• Counterculture, Sensitivity, and Modern Culture: 35:28–37:35
• Critique of the Fashion System: 39:32–43:09
• Berlin’s Special Role: 47:15–49:10
• Business Structure: Workshop & Ready-to-Wear: 52:00–55:33
• Advice for Young Creatives: 56:37–57:44
• Reflections on Legacy: 58:00–59:28

Conclusion

With humor, candor, and the wisdom of lived experience, Joerg and Maria Koch reveal how 032c blurred boundaries between media and fashion, and why their fiercely independent vision still resonates. Their story affirms the value of commitment to one’s creative values, the ongoing importance of political and aesthetic engagement, and the unique power of cultural experiments born from unique times and places.

For more conversations with leading creatives, subscribe to The Grand Tourist or visit grandtourist.net.